Thorin's Thoughts - 20 Years in the Arena (Quake)

[@Thooorin]

When I said CS came from Quake I mean it was based on the Quake engine. It technically came from Half-life, as a mod, which itself used the Quake engine. CS was also a spiritual successor to gooseman's work on Action Quake 2, which came from Quake 2, as the name suggests.

[@anarhi17]

What are your thoughts on the new Half Life Alyx?

[@Dirkzy]

Niggas think air control being in CS is a coincidence? Dude naw.

[@SUNSPYtm]

Action Quake 2 best thing since sliced bread at the time :D Bad thing about the demo files tho, Q2 demo protocol was the network protocol; those small files was just every tick they got rendered like a player by the engine. The cheats didn't take long to be developed ;-< Half-life 2 still had significant portions of the Quake engine.. not good when the source code was STOLEN (2003 iirc) i.imgur.com/aSNYLWj.png Was looking for something and this jumped off the page, just the direct family tree of Quake is impressive, no?

[@Nrch666]

Can you link the defrag movie you were talking about?

[@ZalonDK]

And before Action Quake 2, Gooseman made a mod called Navy Seals for Quake: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oYDagZajmLSGhLs

[@CajunMusings]

(Wiseguy with Team Abuse here) To fill in some gaps on how rough Q3 was in the beginning. Q3test1 (dm7) was really poor in any sort of team or 1v1 item placement. I wrote a rather long and detailed report on which armor and item should be placed and why it should be there. ID took this under consideration and after a few back/forth implemented pretty much 100% of my recommendations. Once Q3 was released, my partner in Team Abuse Citizen was able to craft a way to mod the maps and change item placements. So along with myself, Lantern, Citizen, Toxic who all had extensive experience in Q1 (netquake, quakeworld) and Q2...we set out to pick thru all the maps and see which ones were most suitable (each control area had 3 exists was a good standard we used) for online play with regards to its size, geometry, etc. Once we settled on four we then split the maps up where each had their own philosophy and style. DM7 was brought in from q3test as the first, Q3dm14 (Grim Dungeons) was myself and Lantern where we approached it with dualing powerups (a radical idea at the time as all maps had a single powerup focus). Q3dm12 (Dredworks) was controversial in that its design was to force close up play due to the removal of the railgun (ie more quake like). Q3dm6 was the special one. Citizen put a lot of effort into it and everyone collaborated in where every item had a reason, every healthpack was theory crafted to ensure a great match. We then released and encouraged both sides of the Atlantic to use this map modification pack in QIL leagues and the Euro leagues. I can't stress enough that the stock item placements on these maps were never conducive to team or 1v1 play. Each map we released had a distinct style, and while we were not sure which style would be best...we were pretty sure at least one of the four would be successful. Turned out that Dm7, Dm6, Q3dm14 and Q3dm12 ended up being used for quite some time and our star player (the campgrounds) went on to be part of the "pro" maps and then eventually even ending up in Quake Champions to some degree. So there you go, that is how the campgrounds came to be. Left to its stock item placements...I'm not sure where (if?) the Q3 scene would have evolved, but it would definitely been different. As for the stock machinegun on spawn, yes...it was way to strong. Another pleading I did with ID was to knock the stock damage down from 7 to 5 when in TDM mode. So if you were ever wondering why TDM had the machinegun damage lower as opposed to 1v1 and ctf..now you know. Looking back, it should have been even lower and this is why Team Abuse ran Lansanity 2 (btw Lansanity 1 was all promode) as a 2v2 where everything was stock BUT! the machine was set at 3 damage. The finals that went to the full 5 maps was Fatility/Zero4 vs Lantern/Pureluck of abuse. Another interesting side: At one of the first CPL events I was able to persuade Angel to let me run a invitational 3v3 event at the same venue. It was great fun and well received, and a precursor to Frag 4 that followed. Team Abuse was also involved in crafting rules for the QIL league, the speakeasy servers, early punkbuster/guid tracking for anticheating, writing articles on gameplay. We were happy to be a part of the whole grassroots efforts to make it successful. Really good memories. Edit: Dont forget team abuse also (Rhea) had OSP for the Q3 community!

[@Thooorin]

Without those maps I dare not think how much less interesting Quake would have been. Cheers to you pioneers and your contributions to our scene. Let's do a round-table about the old days sometime. Do you have twitter or some way for me to contact you?

[@CajunMusings]

@@Thooorin just old school email [e-mail] Its interesting in that I stayed somewhat with the modern times and played Quakelive thru 2016. (I did the commentary on a clanarena tournament with a lot of the top talent about 3 years ago). Moved over to Overwatch (I'm not a good player, but help run leagues and teach others basics on esports streaming) and see a lot of the problems that were solved decades ago in Quake rearing their heads again. Yes, that would be interesting to get a hold of the old crew and have a round table.

[@Johnsi227]

Use to hang in the enterthegame chan with you guys!

[@dimeraRaven]

Ah Quake, I owe my love of gaming to you and all your forms. My enjoyment of CS I believe is due to my many hours playing AQ2. Q3 will always be my favourite fps to play at lan with mates. So much fun.

[@TYLERLOVESBMX1]

thank you for some AFPS content thank you very much

[@TYLERLOVESBMX1]

that concluding statement gave me goosebumps n a lump in my throat i miss quake

[@pilotstyle123]

Aww they brought out the old man to start this one, warms the heart. Keep rockin Maka

[@richardadams8036]

Damn already 20 Years, iam getting fucking old. Still remember Makaveli throwing around Chairs after losing to Fatal1ty. When Fat did his awesome save out of the Lava on DM13. When we learned that aiming with a RL on the Foots was better then aiming for the Face. When we learned that jumping around makes you move way faster. When we learned that Q3 is played better with Lego Graphics. When we learned how to play around with q3.cfg. Playing the Beta of Q3, DM7 and DM17 all day. So many good Memories.Sadly back then we thought Arena Shooter and Starcraft 5 would be huge in 20 Years.^^

[@3TapChap]

Fantastic stuff! Long live the arena!

[@VenganceWarrior]

I just read up on the CPL Ground Zero event. It is absolutely crazy. It took place 2,5km (1.6 miles) from where the world trade center stood. What the actual fuck this is absolutely crazy.

[@ex_interp]

17:40 underrated reference

[@nicks5466]

Please do make that series of classic quake frag movies

[@enesbilmez1723]

Couple of things i would like to add: In terms of mods, Rocket Arena,Cpm-a (pro mode) was the biggest modes. It is a shame that mods like Team Fortress did not move to Q3. Tdm/dm has always been the most popular game mode but duel was the main competitive mode. This is why i think people switched to cs later on, because the popular game mode was also the competitive one in cs. I see you haven't put up defrag movies in description, i will link 2 world cup movies: kzbin.info/www/bejne/o5SWdq13i8mpmas - Defrag World Cup 2012 kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXSyaoSri5KWna9h Defrag World Cup 2017 For last, i'm the guy who still plays champions and watch QPL every week. Cooller just won QPL stage 1 couple of weeks ago, K1llsen won the QuakeCon. It is honestly great to watch, esp if a champion like Slash or Athena is involved.

[@FlurryMainchin]

Competitive CS is not a TDM or a DM... it's a team based tactical shooter, which is basically the opposite. Am I missing what you meant by this?

[@enesbilmez1723]

@@FlurryMainchin My point is that the most popular mode in cs was also the competitive one which was de. While in quake, the competitive mode was the least popular. Duels was and still is the least played mode of the main game modes while de is still the most popular and most played game mode in cs.

[@FlurryMainchin]

@@enesbilmez1723 gotcha, I read that wrong initially. Thanks for the reply!

[@nmelol]

We love quake

[@blackholegenerator6831]

Quake three was good with Corkscrew mod. Aaah the good old times. 😭😭😭

[@csnoob02]

nice intro makaveli !

[@holyraider]

defrag movies were fucking sick, i played q3 maybe 100hrs total but i probably spent 5x that much watching frag/defrag movies. cs1.3-1.6 fragmovies aswell and kz runs, still watch some from time to time, the list is endless.

[@frankjaeger2565]

I'd say Quake live mostly fixed those issues, as it lowered the machine gun damage (from 7 to 5) and especially the rail gun (from 100 to 80), and fixed that shitty respawn system. In live you get way less spawn frags and machine gun frags. Too bad they ruined the hitscan and you get ammos way too easily, a couple of stepbacks from q3. I still think live is the best version for duel

[@TheOsju]

q3a was my first love.

[@skyfusion4153]

I enjoyed the video, a lot. On another note, it feels like 20 years since you posted a proper CSGO video tho.

[@nipse3456]

q3dm6 never forget

[@ulti_fd]

You forgot putting a defrag montage in the description

[@Thooorin]

I linked it as a card

[@ulti_fd]

@@Thooorin cool while we're on the subject, I recommend watching the first place CPM runs of the "frcup", should be the first result you get when you look that up very simple low edit vid with not great audio, but still one of my favorites

[@billykhoabillykhoa7844]

It’s official bois, Thoorin is going to beat his last streak of thoughts.

[@iRiDiKi]

Defrag is still going, Thorin. The players are better than ever and continue to push the bounds of the movement and engine. DFWC going on right now with a 1.5k~ prize pool. Couple years ago it was like 5k with some big donations for it.

[@gloomxglory]

literally

[@ПавелСущенко-щ6е]

I have quake tattoo on my neck, for realz

[@engendex7721]

Awesome!!

[@Wizardi1111]

Diabotical is the Quake fans future, it will be what they wanted Quake Champions to be, and will revitalize the afps scene.

[@satanspy]

No it won't. There's no hitscan MG as the starter weapon and not even the railgun is hitscan instagib is projectile based it's a joke.

[@karlbastos2800]

yeeaaahh another quake vid makes this boomer happy

[@x-techgaming]

Where are all the links..?

[@mrmilled5130]

a quake vid huh

[@Viriyascybin]

hit or miss I guess they never miss huh 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[@thirdvect0r]

I always felt the "floaty" feel of q3 was a result of Unreal/UT influence, which imo was the biggest drawback. No tightness to control at all round corners, espceially over those awful open air maps. I played for AT1 and ANM for a little while in 1998, and just gave up when I saw the game was going the way it seemed, open air rail fests.

[@aetarz]

The naming of the maps seem pretty confusing

[@Kaimanderi]

That thick accent. "Wth is he talking about Quick three?"

[@thirdvect0r]

Duncan "Thorin" South Shields

[@tinychkn4299]

Nice

[@HydrusT]

Honest question no flame or trolling here, why is Thorin's face looking red and irritated? Maybe a reaction to something? Hope all is well

[@VivaLaRazsa]

n i c e m e m e

[@SoIoCreep]

Q2 Lithium - best

[@gloomxglory]

lolllllllll

[@grain2854]

make a video on UT!

[@nmelol]

ded gaem

[@grain2854]

@@nmelol so is quake tho

[@engendex7721]

maige Yeah but UT is really dead, like really dead. Quake at least hosts official tournaments through QPL and has actual pros compete in them for money.

[@parikshitrao4208]

We're early af

[@manmitrao230]

@Czeslaw K. That was a reasonable response.

[@parikshitrao4208]

@Czeslaw K. Not really brother, but whatever it is that you're going through don't worry it'll pass. So I hope you're happy wherever you are just like I'm happy in my own home.

[@bobbincat]

"unless they're playing QC, lets be honest who is" so fucking true QC is a mess and a disgrace to the quake legacy 😒