Best Football Player Ever? RichsWrath on Ronaldo vs. Messi - Discussion Not Debate (Football)

[@Martin-pq8mj]

Finally a Messi-Ronaldo discussion worth listening to. Unfortunately, it was over pretty quickly when Rich made essentially two statements: Messi is by far the most "effective" footballer ever - passes, dribbles, chances, ball circulation, and of course, goals and finishing. And two, trophies are pretty much meaningless when football is a team game and ballon d'or useless because they're voted and subject to massive bias. Rich indulged Thorin here but essentially restated those two in different ways across the hour and a half. The only real point Ronaldo can challenge Messi on is big goals, and even that's fairly revisionist. No doubt Ronaldo has got huge goals in big moments, particularly in the CL, but that was only from around 2014. The first half of their careers Ronaldo was known as a choker and Messi was the one scoring in big moments.

[@mmmnn1324]

It really is incredible how productive thorin is. I don't know any other content creator who creates so much content that is also of such high quality.

[@Rille922]

I think Messis strength is severely underrated. Look at his 91 goal a year season, something people don’t remember is that he weighed more than usual that year. That led to him never being taken to the ground, he would play more centrally and skip past 2-3 players consistently and just ride the challenges. In general that’s something great smaller players like him could do, they became experts at using the opponents strength against them, using them as a springboard to move ahead.

[@RichsWrath]

Was a super fun discussion! Sad that an 'esports historian' puts on a better football discussion than 99% of football full-timers😭 Note: Had a brain fart at the start where I confused the 1982 World cup Brazil squad with the 1970 world cup squad of Jairzinho, Rivellino, Carlos Alberto etc... (which was still one of the best football teams of all time!)

[@cryfest]

Messi came out good on this one.

[@starvinmarvin1304]

Rich had great counters for pretty much everything but he is arguing the easier side. Rough one for Thorin but really enjoyed the dialogue.

[@FelipeNascimento-ch1er]

Great show thorin, was sorta expecting something like this on the lfn sports channel with the boys but nevertheless still amazing

[@magni294]

Rich was a great guest! Would love to hear Thorin's opinion of the new UCL format

[@Jwarchild]

Loved this video!! Thorin's Side has been providing excellent content for what feels like an eternity now. Keep that shit up Thorin!

[@yassirelhidani6803]

After 2018 , messi (2019) should get the ballon d'or , stats eye test , he was literally one man army he was playmaker and a goalscorer , 2019 was his second best season behind peak 2011/2012 season.

[@noahcoleman6385]

I stop listening when the statistic was brought up that apparently Messi hasn't scored an away UCL knockout goal since 2013. Did the brace away at Arsenal in 2016 not happen? Or as recently in 2021 with his absolute worldie away at PSG? Get your facts right otherwise it just shows you have no idea what you're talking about.

[@APZE1]

Nice discussion, but eye test wise there is no comparison. Messi clears

[@gabrielboman1340]

Depends on what you value Messi is an alien where Ronaldo is a perfectly trimmed robot

[@defenestratedalien1448]

​@@gabrielboman1340 true, but Ronaldo is perfectly tuned to goal scoring, and is not world class at playmaking, dribbling, passing. Messi is tuned to everything

[@thegoughandbordenfamily8234]

​@@defenestratedalien1448Ronaldo is the guy who individually dominates more. That's the eye test.

[@defenestratedalien1448]

@@thegoughandbordenfamily8234 how does he dominate more when Messi is equally as dominant as him in terms of goal scoring, and also dominant in attributes CR7 is above average in? The machismo for CR7 and the humility of Messi has skewed perception of them.

[@nottoptop326]

29:50 oh come on, that injury argument is such bs. So this injury apparently affected only one aspect of his game which is dribbling, but didn't affect every other aspect of his game ? Why is it so hard to admit that he was smart and knew he couldn't compete with messi if he kept dropping back and creating chances for his tm8s while scoring an insane amount of goals like messi did. The only thing he could do was to score the maximum amount of goals he could to stay in that discussion, and he did, but anyone with a good set of eyes for football can't be fooled with that

[@yassirelhidani6803]

"Why i put messi second is because ronaldo goes to the gym" lmao

[@andrewinat434]

Yeah, so dumb

[@nolanthompson5855]

the whole point of the discussion is to not get into stupid arguments like this

[@reinaldolira5211]

BANGER. The concept, the theme… must watch. Would like to see your take on some oldschool players/careers

[@arthurnunes7184]

One great point that i think they forgot to bring is that messi has the most goals in finals (35x22) aswell as assists (15x2). While its a fact that ronaldo is the "Mrs Champions" you just can't miss the fact they both played in La Liga and in Copa del Rey and the outcome goes massively towards Messi. Its like ignoring the domestical results and only factoring worlds.

[@Red-Or-BluePill]

This is a useless discussion. Messi kicks CRS7 ass every discussion. Ending the video after 10 mins of waffling.

[@rhinoboy09]

Every now and then I get thirsty like I've been drinking nothing but beer to hydrate. And I hate the content I'm listening to , even other thorin content ( not a back handed compliment the four horsemen episode before this was still a great buzz keeping to the alcohol analogy) and I remember how much I loved the last time I binged months worth of this channel's content. And I search thorinside and get something equating to water until I finish the cup and thirst again for a while.

[@gupdate1801]

Very funny. Cr7 supporter is bringing useless point to prove that cr7 is better than messi...😅😅

[@hystaronics6342]

I love Thorin but he did lowkey get smoked here. All the evidence that Rich presented proves that Messi is better.

[@borofreak]

Sorry to get technical, but it's not the *EVIDENCE from Rich* which proves Messi is anything. Unless you, of course, consider Rich to be the almighty, omnipotent and omniscient deity that controls the world and decides fates. It's just Messi, the person, who proves whatever he proves.

[@AiyukIsHim]

when you are talking about who "you believe" is the best player using the word evidence is comedy but you do you

[@arthurnunes7184]

Yea kkkk i could see that richard was much more prepared. But great discussion, anyway. As always, great work, Thorin.

[@tempname4039]

As they repeatedly said, it wasn't a debate.

[@hystaronics6342]

@@tempname4039 that was just to say that it won't be some degenerate argument. It was clearly a debate lol

[@bardimous4556]

This was a really fun back and forth but ultimately Rich is right. Ronaldo's biggest thing is goal scoring, but Messi is the superior goal scorer while also being the more elite playmaker. Stats basically show that Messi was better is every key aspect of the game.

[@Nathan-hs2ut]

If you think Messi is a better goalscorer in big moments you’re actually beyond help. UCL stats speak for themselves

[@bardimous4556]

@@Nathan-hs2ut As Rich says in the video, that is such a niche argument. Messi has lots of goals and assists in World Cup knockouts but Ronaldo has zero. Where was Ronaldo in those big moments? No one argues that Ronaldo doesn't have more big UCL knockout moments, but he also explained that the 'clutch' stats are actually Messi favoured if you remove penalties.

[@kusanagi5418]

​@@bardimous4556one plays for portugal the other for argentina, take away the titles both of them won with their country and compare what the countries did before them.

[@Nathan-hs2ut]

@@bardimous4556 the only world cup pessi won was a total and undeniable fraudfest. Also UCL knockouts is a way higher level of football than the world cup, and we all know who’s by far the best to ever play that competition. Ronaldo even has more assists. Ronaldo has more goals, waaaay more goals in knockouts and won it 2 times more. Easy money

[@bardimous4556]

@@kusanagi5418 that doesn't make any sense. Portugal had an insanely stacked roster in the world cup, way better than Argentina. Going on history is dumb as the strength of squad constantly changes.

[@LaZer-m2i]

Funny how thorin when he compares ronaldo to messi he brings that the most important stat is scoring the goals and finishing , because he can't say anything than that because messi clears by a margin , soo by that logic you would think gerd muller is greater than maradona , or zlatan ibrahimovic or benzema or lewandowski is better than R9 phenomenon, No it is not , messi when he doesn't score he creates chances and makes assists and goes to the midfield and gets the ball and run the game , Ronaldo on other hand if he doesn't score he is just useless , and that's why messi is the better footballer all around , and that's why he has always high ratings in all his matches he played even when he losses or doesn't score , criteria of being the best player with eye test is all in favor of messi , he is by far the better dribbler by far he creates most chances by far the superior playmaker and by far superior goalscorer, messi is better footballer and that's not even close if you have eyes , now with his achievements and longevity and his personal awards , makes him the greatest ever , there will be no player like messi , it's more likely there will be another ronaldo.

[@chrisgapp1521]

My favourite thing about messi vs Ronaldo is how much of a great representation of nature vs nurture it is

[@gabrielboman1340]

This! I think this is why they are so hard to compare it's the Ailien vs the Robot

[@johnpacino007]

Been watching football since across the 1970s. Starting from seeing the absolute peak of Cruyff & Beckenbauer. I caught the tailend of Pelé, post retirement from Brazil & he was still spectacular. I saw the whole of peak Maradona from 1979- 88. Saw the 90s O Fenômeno Ronaldo. My verdict of the players i watched at their very peak: 1. Messi 2. Maradona 3. Cruyff 4. Beckenbauer 5. Zidane I rate players that are not only elite at club level. But also at international football level, encompassing the world cup. The highest level of the game. Cristiano's awful world cup spread, across five different world cups, is a major sticking point for me. I see him more as a great proven club football player. But not a international football, great world cup player. Di Stéfano & George Best, also fall into that category.

[@Wwheeles]

Fun discussion, cool to hear the divergence of weight on criteria

[@reinaldolira5211]

Sócrates and Zico are from the 80s 😂. A “good” strategy that old people here (BR) use to discuss the GOAT is to isolate Pele from the discussion, and there are many good reasons to do so.

[@a_guinness]

I mean it is quite remarkable how historically illiterate most people are, I'm just glad they clarified that they were only comparing players they actually watched! I used to argue for Pele being the goat, but nowadays I don't bother because it's too subjective. There isn't one person who consistently watched every great player from say Di Stefano to Messi at their absolute peak, so it's impossible for anyone to say with certainty who the greatest of all time actually is. Every generation has had great players, but no player was the best in all generations. What I find more often than not in these goat debates is people comparing eras rather than individual players, and which era was best is entirely down to opinion, not fact. It's ridiculous for someone in his 60s to expect someone in his 20s to think that Pele's era was better than Messi's for example.

[@IncomprehensibleFool]

Great content

[@mrfacts6860]

Messi in top 5 league s Most goals Most assists. Most trophies Most dribbles completed Most chances created Most European golden boots Most Iiffhs playmaker awards Most goals from outside the box Most goals in finals Most international player.of.the tournament awards. Most world cup golden balls. You just need eyes.... if u say ronaldo u have issues 😂😂

[@juicermcgooser3352]

great video respect to both players i personally if i was building a team would build around messi

[@Daegor1405]

Whats the most pro Ronaldo stat that is also never brought up is the performance against top teams in the CL (by UEFA Coeffecient). Against top 5 teams Ronaldo: 35 games, 26 goals, 3 assists Messi: 28 games, 12 goals, 4 assists Against top 10 teams Ronaldo: 58 games, 44 goals, 9 assists Messi: 57 games, 27 goals, 9 assists The sample size is comparable but their their output is worlds apart. Whats also interesting is that in these games messi doesnt even assist more.

[@seanpennhauer9133]

I guess you are comitting the mistake to overestimate personal statistics in a team sport. Just watch a game and you will notice the difference....and it is abysmal

[@abongilecokile]

Ronaldos biggest achievement is being compared to Messi.

[@yassirelhidani6803]

Messi is much better dribbler much better at creating chances much better playmaker , ronaldo is a better goalscorer and even then not by much , messi can play as a right winger and as a striker and as a false 9 and as a midfield playmaker , he did it across his carrer , (2007-2011) as dribbler , (2012-2018) goalscorer , (2019) complete peak in all metrics , (2020-Now) playmaker.

[@zennihilator3724]

How is Ronaldo a better goalscorer when Messi has a higher goal-per-game ratio (excluding USA/Saudi cause it's vacation football)... Messi has averaged 0.78 goals per game in his career, Ronaldo has averaged 0.72 goals per game in his career, and Messi also peaked higher with 73 goals in a single season to Ronaldo's highest 61 (which isn't even close...) And this is despite the fact that you could argue Ronaldo played closer to goal as a striker more times in his career and his game was less about playmaking and finding teammates with passes than Messi, so he could focus more on finishing... And STILL he couldn't outperform Messi in scoring goals. Only leads him in longevity statistics because he played more games cause he's 3 years old... If Messi decided to stay another 3 seasons in Europe he could've had better goal longevity too in considering only top competitions like European leagues and UCL etc. I don't really see an arguement for Ronaldo as a scorer over Messi (not saying there difference is big, just that i would take Messi judging by the numbers and how each playstyle of the two lend itself to volume goalscoring)... So if Ronaldo doesn't even win in the category he most excells at... what's even the point of this discussion? It's like trying to argue Kobe Bryant is better than LeBron James because of scoring, but he wasn't even a better scorer... And he loses in every other basketball aspect... Ronaldo is not a better playmaker than Messi, he's not a better dribbler, not a more cerebral off-ball player, not better at set pieces... The only thing he's genuinely better is heading the ball. That's it. Which can be a useful skill, but since 97% of football is played with your legs and Messi is the best at that, it's kind of moot.

[@yassirelhidani6803]

@@zennihilator3724 well there is no debate is there , the fact is messi is just a better footballer , the thing that I preach about when ppl compare ronaldo to messi , is that when messi doesn't score in a game , he still makes assists or creates chances for his team , and absorbs a lot of pressure , and he pivots to play in the midfield , ronaldo can't do that when he doesn't score he goes invisible and useless at worst , that's why messi has always had high rating in his matches in his entire career even when he losses or doesn't score goals, and that's not the case for ronaldo.

[@zennihilator3724]

@@yassirelhidani6803 When Ronaldo was still more of a winger (United,early RM years) he would impact the game more without needing to score because he would be used differently. He'd pick up the ball much deeper and then use his pace to dribble by players or go wide on the flanks to pin balls inside... And he was great at it. Still not better than Messi because he never had that innate vision/feel for the game and he had an affinity for bombing random long shots for no reason to hunt for goals, but still... when he was running down wide you couldn't stop him. But yeah, at a certain point in his career (idk, maybe 2013, somewhere around there) Ronaldo decided he wants to preserve his health so he can play long and score more goals to try to break goalscoring records in football, so he basically minimized all aspects of his game to just focus on that... Kind of ironic that Messi never explicitly did the same, but could still keep up with him in goalscoring while dishing out 5x the assists... Anyway, my response was prompted just because you said 'Ronaldo was a better goalscorer', which is something i hear a lot of people say like it's a given just because Ronaldo has scored the most goals in history and ignoring all other context... When you start diving beyond just raw number of goals, you see Messi is actually better in terms of goals per game, peak goals in a season and his goalscoring is actually more impressive when you take into account factors like (using a higher % of his possessions to pass assist or generally set up his teammates, lesser proximity to goal, is assisted on less goal conversions, took and scored less penalities, better free kick conversion, scored more goals outside the box...) these are all Messi favored.

[@yassirelhidani6803]

@@zennihilator3724 the only thing ronaldo has over messi is UCL , in stats G/A and one more UCL and that's about it , messi clears him in all other aspects of the game as a player and as of achievements , so there is no debate , so why is thorin trying to make these gymnastics to push that ronaldo is comparable to messi , the fact that ronaldo got people think that he is in the conversation with messi as the goat is an achievement on itself , I feel like thorin always loves to do the classic I'm different for the sake of it . van basten said it best "if you think ronaldo is better than messi , then you don't know football"

[@qenjaboy]

@@yassirelhidani6803 CR7 just has an insane G/A record in the quarters and semis of the UCL. Messi has better overall G/A stats in the UCL, as well as being better in basically any other offensive statistical category. Why do you think that "ronaldo is a better goalscorer and even then not by much" ?

[@karasunono9322]

This was kinda boring imo. Majority of the time Thorin and Rich are just going "Yeah we won't count this/this is why other people are not relevant"

[@DREAMWORKERSKY]

this topic ❤🔥🔥🔥

[@aswinhere]

Ronaldo fans even if messi didnt have won the world cup he is still better and miles ahead. After he won wc its just not even a debate. Like sometimes i think how tf is this even a comparison now?

[@qenjaboy]

@@THEBaRcAfAn10000 Exactly. The WC, the other titles and all the individual awards they just add to his legacy and his greatness. However, they don't really have much to do with his individual ability. His ability and impact on games are the highest out of any player that I have ever seen, by quite a big margin.

[@RPT369]

Thorin killing the YT game rn

[@mrfacts6860]

2013 messi had 0 away goals is false ...2020 psg 1 goal plus 9 assists in knockout rounds..

[@gabrielboman1340]

Loved the video. Here is my position on the question even if I am a Ronaldo fan I have to agree that Messi is the most talented footballer I have ever seen. Where Ronaldo imo overshines Messi is that he is less team dependent, he could slot into any team in any league at any time and do what he does while Messi would still be one of the best but not play to his full ability without the team being centred around him. You could see thar in 2010 when Ibra came to barca and it wasn't the Messi show and Ibra actually was their best player during the fall until the Guardiola vs Ibra fallout that happened because Messi wanted the team to play around him and not Ibra. Well history shows that that was the right decision for them but he actually "struggled" that year compared to his standard when they didn't play around him. So for me I would not say anyone is clearly better they are about the same level just good in different aspects and I wouldn't say anyone was wrong who said one of the two

[@calvinjohnson2859]

I disagree with your statement about Messi and Ronaldo's dependency on their teams. If you observe closely, Ronaldo relies heavily on strong midfielders and wing backs for his performance, while Messi excels as both a playmaker and a finisher. Even in 2019, when Barcelona lacked creative midfielders, Messi adapted by playing deeper but still managed to lead in goals and assists. Messi's influence extends beyond scoring, whereas Ronaldo's impact tends to be less consistent and reliant on scoring goals. Despite playing in different systems, Messi consistently shines, showcasing his versatility and impact on the game.

[@TheDada42]

Rapenaldo fans have zero ball knowledge

[@g1tno]

it may just be impossible to definitively decide- for myself i have flopped back and forth 3/4 times , its like a quantum state of being. they seemingly cover eachothers weaknesses and balance each other

[@mrdan523]

Same here. I grew up a Messi fan hardcore since 2010 World Cup. But some of those years 2017-2019, Messi would just completely check out of the match emotionally. He would show poor body language, get pouty, overall he just wasn’t the leader Barcelona & Argentina needed. That’s why his 2022 World Cup and the Copa America win were big redemption for him. He showed true leadership in those moments.

[@user-ux3jp9oo7r]

i think Messi is a tiny bit better, but Ronaldo is way more clutch, which in turn makes me rate him a tiny bit better

[@waffen98]

@@user-ux3jp9oo7rZero goals in world cup knockout games “more clutch”

[@user-ux3jp9oo7r]

@@waffen98 12 assists in knockout games in champions league in 19 seasons lol. "clutch playmaker"

[@euphoriaggaminghd]

​@@user-ux3jp9oo7rI'll do one better, 3 knockout goal contributions in his entire international career. Messi has 28

[@mrfacts6860]

Ronaldo is the only player to win a 0 trophy ballon dor 😂😂😂2013 .... he is fifa/ media creation As for goals Lakaku has more goals than Pele Maradona R9

[@CalippoShots]

thorin got humilliated in this debate

[@misterkefir]

Discussion.

[@idontgetit2195]

Dunkudo "Thorin" Shuldo vs Al Richied Wrathili

[@tuginwho]

Always thought your general process of valuing players would translate well into football where pure ring counting and people giving opinions on games they clearly didn’t watch is rampant. I still think Messi is the best in my lifetime but the point that the WC is heavily overrated and UCL performances trump that is a based one that I rarely see anyone dare to make within the football community. The Balon D’or is the single worst “MVP like” award in any sport I somewhat follow, the idea that you are only qualified to win it if your team wins enough trophies is ridiculous especially in football where it’s 11v11 and not even 5v5 like in Basketball or CS for that matter. Thanks for the content

[@svsv1191]

Ronaldo never converted into a 9, he massively failed at doing so and returned to left wing where he still plays after a bout a year or so, he played some games in a 4-2-2-2 as a double striker and some in a 4-2-3-1 for portugal but it was underwhelming afaik, he just scores like a number 9 from the wing and drifts inside for goals

[@mrhussain9008]

Messi has Cristiano Ronaldo stats, trophies and longevity combined with Maradona individual ability.

[@justhurricane5331]

Just a quick correction. Messi was never an attacking midfielder. He always had 3 midfielders playing behind him. He dropped deeper often but he was always starting as either a winger or a center forward so he was closer to the idea of a false 9 than he was an attacking midfielder even if he often occupied similar areas of the pitch to number 10s. This is just because of the freedom he was given to go wherever he wanted on the pitch.

[@clippercrewx321]

love the video

[@kayko777]

Of course thorin is a ronaldo fan lmao

[@toniskug6983]

What pisses me off the most in these discussions is how people only look at stats but nobody mentions the eye test and how these guy play and what feeling you have watching. For me as someone who loves football and is a midfielder who got disrespected in his teams cause he didnt "produce" with G/A messi is the goat his playmaking and how he influences Puts him at one but i Respect ronaldo SO much cause what he achieved is UNREAL. They are the greatest and deserve all the respect

[@user-ux3jp9oo7r]

Messi has 12 assists in the champions league knockout stages, thats less than an assist a season xd

[@muhammadfarjadkhan8678]

I know right? Just looking at how he plays shows that is borderline impossible. You can see where the fanboys of Ronaldo drool on his useless 'tricks' which don't even create any space and the defender is STILL on him. Unfortunately, people don't realize that Messi and you look at his only 1 skill - the shoulder drop - towers over any skill that footballers have done. It is borderline impossible to replicate and I know as someone who played football a lot. The man switches direction then switches again within the time the defender half commits. Only people who have played football at a decent level can truly understand the difficulty on that ability.

[@toniskug6983]

Assists is not Equal to playmaking its the same in basketball its about getting the team out of a Pressing Situation, creating space for teammates or giving the Pass for the assisst. Its a Tram Sport if you make a great pass for a 2v1 Situation and your teammate Passes again you dont get the assisst but you created the goal. Interms of Dribbling messi is the best example that nobody needs a rainbow Flick or anything shiny dropping the shoulder and going the other direction or Chance of pace or slight ajustements of the Ball for the defender to move is the MOST effective way of playing football. All the Tricks while standing still is worthless but to do that at such a high pace is unbelievable and makes him my goat

[@fredrikdahl1230]

I think even as a messi fan first , i am a fan of both Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi now btw because that is only logical if anyone appreciate football imo, Cristiano Ronaldo really is an underrated playmaker/passer imo. They mentioned it but the Messi side said messi is way ahead of cristiano Ronaldo in that Department, but i dont think the distance between them is that far, sure there is a little distance between them in passing/playmaking imo, but look at Cristiano Ronaldo s stats in chances created (900/1000 something), accurate throughballs (90/100+ something) and big chances created (200+ something). Like, they are not bad stats at all, they are still solid stats from Cristiano Ronaldo no matter how you look at it. Thats just my opinion though😊😉⚽🤙👍7️⃣🔟🇵🇹🇦🇷

[@yassirelhidani6803]

Goat messi , peak R9 phenomeno.

[@nolancooke9308]

Gretzky has more Ppg than lemeuix

[@darkoplax7688]

Cristiano my goat , 5 champions leagues ... won when it mattered the most and is the greatest CL scorer

[@sebastianhirjoaba1202]

Yeah sure Messi won the world cup but did Messi even win the Euros? /s

[@mrfacts6860]

Ronalod has 0 goal contributions in 13 finals. 😂😂😂what big game?? 0 goal contributions in world cup 8 games... Messi has a double

[@ricardoalmeida4719]

Check your facts. He’s the player with more goals in different Champions finals (4), for 2 clubs. He also has more goals and assists in knock out stages of the UCL, where both played at their prime and with their best teams.

[@Footb_All111]

@@ricardoalmeida4719the ucl ain’t the biggest stage tho nice try.

[@ricardoalmeida4719]

@@Footb_All111 For clubs, absolutely it is. For national teams is the World Cup, but as mentioned in the conversation, national trophies are a bit pointless because you don’t choose where you’re born and national teams can’t sign players freely. Ronaldo would definitely have a World Cup at least had he been born or signed for Spain for example.

[@Footb_All111]

@@ricardoalmeida4719 did you seriously just say international football is pointless lol CONVERSATION OVER.

[@ricardoalmeida4719]

@@Footb_All111 No. I said is pointless in comparing individuals players’ achievements. There’s more average players with a WC (who won it on the bench) then there are great players without any international trophies. Or do you think Eto’o, Drogba, Ibra, or Shevchenko wouldn’t have a spot in any international team had they been born in Brazil, Argentina, Germany, France or Spain? Obviously the WC is very important country wise. In terms of individual players, is not. Only those who want to gatekeep discussions about the quality of individual players say that. IMO is nonsensical.

[@DJ1NS4N1TY]

My body is ready

[@zethw0w]

for me its still Pelé

[@zethw0w]

@@waffen98 yes I have watched

[@euphoriaggaminghd]

​@@waffen98please search up a video which is something like "pele did it first" where you see countless skills moves from today being done by pele 60 years ago. Whether you agree with his validity statwise, the guy was revolutionary

[@gameplayerbr4962]

Messi is a better player but the difference is not that huge when you take into account that Ronaldo hasn't had his knees due to tendinosis for a decade, whereas Messi did a growth treatment when he was a kid which made him the least injury prone player ever. Also being better doesn't matter, greatness is what matters and Messi didn't turn up in the Champions league (the most important tournament, which realistically he's only won 3 times because he barely even played in his 1st) for a decade, he boosted his numbers in the group stage and in the Camp Nou, but once he left the comfort of his stadium he'd always get humiliated and get nowhere close to the finals. Meanwhile Ronaldo, even in those trash Juventus teams, would score in both legs regardless of stadium, teammates etc. Messi was always a joke for Argentina too, but now history is tainted because Catar gave him 5 fake penalties in 7 games in a World Cup where Portugal and Brazil had clearer penalties that weren't given. He was pathetic for PSG too. He's the GOAT of Camp Nou an Copa del Rey, if he was a remotely controversial person people would never call him goat.

[@gameplayerbr4962]

Fucking hell, I left the comment before watching the video and now that I'm watching it... Rich's points are terrible. It's just a bunch of stats without context. "Ronaldo has zero goals in WC knockouts, Messi does have", yes thanks to the bazillion penalties he got. He had zero goals before 2022. "Oh but he was the 2014 MVP" yes because he reached the finals after getting two free wins in Switzerland and Belgium (hadn't reached their golden generation yet) and then the Netherlands that was already washed. "Messi has better per 90 numbers" of course, Ronaldo in the beginning didn't play at all close to the goal, it was only once he became a winger that he started scoring and never looked back. Meanwhile Messi always played for the only club in the world that has a generational system (juego de posicion) which made it so much easier for him to play and score. Alves or Alba crossing back to Messi was an automatic goal and happened pretty much every game. "Messi is more efficient", yes but this is not basketball, Ronaldo would shoot the most random shots just in case he could hit it, of course that would destroy his efficiency. "Messi has more long shots" yes but do you watch the games? Messi's "long shots" are right at the limit of the box line and thanks to the aforementioned Alves/Alba system goals. Ronaldo's long shots are closer to the midfield line than to the box.

[@MichałWojnowski-u2w]

cry more

[@mrdan523]

I sense a lot of emotion in this comment, so I’m gonna try to step back from that. You make some great points, but one thing is that I would say you’ve discounted the first half of Messi’s Career. He tore apart the Champions League and all of Europe. Messi also did have injuries which affected his playstyle. Early in his career he was a speed demon and wasn’t afraid of getting physical. The second half of his career he defaulted as more of a playmaker, which is probably why he wasn’t so clutch outside of his comfort zone like you say. Anyways my point is that all players have Injuries, so I’m not gonna make special what if excuses for Ronaldo. I think Messi’s greatest weakness is that he was a piss poor leader for the majority of his career. If his team was playing like garbage, he would have bad vibes and do nothing to lift up his teammates. You only seem to give negative context for Messi. Come on let’s be real here, those Argentina teams were trash. All ego, no teamwork, terrible coaching

[@bardimous4556]

@@gameplayerbr4962 lmao what a load of biased crap. everything Ronaldo did = Impossible! Everything Messi did = free wins/doesn't count. You're such a baby.

[@AA-yr3zw]

Does doing HGH when you are a kid mean you are less injury prone? Also, its not like we know if CR7/Messi ever did any PEDs in their careers either so we cant really say it led to more/less injuries. Sometimes its just fortune that players get injured or not. Even if you have the perfect diet and PED cocktail 1 bad tackle can just torpedo your ACL (or any other important part of your knee/leg) and you get a huge setback.

[@kiwi5265]

4:25 wait am i stupid or thoring thinks R9 is from argentina ?

[@joeshang3574]

When people say the real Ronaldo its tongue and cheek in saying R9>CR7, so CR7 doesnt even deserve to be compared to Messi. What Thorin is doing is the reverse, whereas he is saying Maradona>Messi so Messi doesnt deserve to be compared to CR7 as a counter. So yeah I agree with ur verdict on urself

[@kiwi5265]

@@joeshang3574 ah okay ty

[@thegoughandbordenfamily8234]

Anybody who watches knows Ronaldo's better. The goals prove that.

[@Footb_All111]

The fact that you just uttered that sentence shows me how little you know about football 😂

[@alexqq14]

It's Messi and anyone who knows about football knows that there is no discussion

[@darkoplax7688]

If you are a pleb then its messi But if u use ur brain then its cristiano

[@waffen98]

@@darkoplax7688 You have an anime profile picture and you call people a pleb? the irony here is absurd.

[@indiemoans]

@@darkoplax7688and you won’t or even try to prove why

[@darkoplax7688]

@@indiemoans he never asked, he just made a statement and i countered with a statement if you're asking let's start by the obvious that Cristiano won CL 5 times and was the best scorer multiple times in the biggest competiton ; how about we start there ?

[@indiemoans]

@@darkoplax7688 can’t score in the world cup, can he? and the euro run is overrated. he only scored 3 goals, the most meaningful being against Hungary but even then they didnt win and only made it out of the groups cuz of the stupid EURO format.

[@mrfacts6860]

Last point...why do u have to fake stats to prove your point. Messi has 102 right foot goals and 160 goals outside the box..Ronaldo 123 Also benzema has 92 champions league goals Suarez 23 .... now champions league doesn't matter and saying messi had a better striker partner 😂

[@ricardoalmeida4719]

Dude, compare the numbers of goals and assists of those 2. Suarez was the only player to win a golden boot in the prime of Messi and Ronaldo. And he made more assists then Messi that year too. Benzema played a tone shit more of UCL games, in great part due to Ronaldo. lol

[@misterkefir]

CR7 all the way.

[@cristianonacort1217]

Come on man, the difference among the better teams to the weaker teams in la liga is brutal. Premier league is more leveled! And also, playing the English teams in the UCL is not the same as playing in the actual league given that you're scoring goals against them playing for fckng Barcelona!

[@AIembeddings]

Said Cristiano

[@cristianonacort1217]

@@AIembeddings wtf, what does one thing have to do with another ?

[@euphoriaggaminghd]

​​@@cristianonacort1217well let's look at this rationally, the premier league before 2009 was dominated by Arsenal chelsea and Man united. Tottenham were shit, Liverpool were shit, man city was just getting their oil money. When measi was scoring against the big 6, he was doing so when these times were far better. And in the europa league english teams were poor. I won't remind you that in terms of the ucl, 3 Spanish teams consistently made the final in the last decade, meanwhile sevilla made the europa league their playground. If we look at any top 5 league, we are not gonna see such a competitive league beyond their top 4.

[@cristianonacort1217]

@@euphoriaggaminghd nothing you just said is a lie, but let's say that while the spanish league has the better quality, the english one has quantity. If you tell me that Sevilla is not a good team you're lying completely. You are also telling me that Liverpool, which won ucl in 2005 and made it to the finals in 2007 was a shit team and want me to believe that your point is not biased ? Overall the PL is a more competitive league, period!

[@euphoriaggaminghd]

@@cristianonacort1217 Liverpool until 2020 did not win the Premier league in 30 years. 30 years! In 2005 Liverpool won when ronaldo just came to united. They absolutely weren't dominating the league. It was arsenal man united and Chelsea. Nowadays its just man city. La liga had both quality and quantity. Barca real madrid atletico madrid sevilla valencia malaga were all regular champions league teams. Go to the same time period from the late 2000s to mid 2010s and tell me which English clubs consistently reached champions league football. Its the same teams every single year. And in the europea league it was Spanish teams dominating, so again the top teams and mid table during the early to mid parts of their careers in Spain were more competitive than in England. This shouldn't come as a surprise when man united won 3 prems in a row and a other in 2013, and reached the ucl final 3 times in 4 years

[@user-ux3jp9oo7r]

gonna be honest rich has no idea about football lol... half of what he is saying is wrong

[@hystaronics6342]

What did he say that was wrong?

[@cjc2611]

While it may be few and far between, what baffles me most is there's actual football enthusiasts who have watched the sport their entire lives and still think Ronaldo is even in the same stratosphere as Messi. Ronaldo can be your favorite player, nobody will argue that. It is a personal choice. To say he's better than Messi is your insecurity coming out.