Thoughts on Dynamic Foveated Rendering in the Pimax CRYSTAL...

After experimenting with dynamic foveated rendering in various titles on the Pimax Crystal for a few days, I decided to give a few quick thoughts on my experience with this feature so far. This feature is currently in beta, and not yet available to all Crystal users, but hopefully it will have a general release soon.
⭐ $20 off Pimax Crystal use coupon code 'robot' at checkout:
pimax.com/?ref=0eQMbw (Affiliate)
[0:00] Introduction and overview
[0:10] What is DFR?
[1:15] Elite Dangerous and framerate improvements
[1:48] PS VR2 uses DFR
[2:20] Activating DFR in the Crystal using Pimax XR and SteamVR
[3:44] Don't forget to check the box in Pimax XR!
[4:25] DFR works and improves framerate
[5:55] OpenXR toolkit and MSFS
[8:34] 20-30% improvement in framerates in ideal situations
[9:00] OpenComposite and DFR?
[10:22] Trial and error with DFR for now
[12:38] Wrapping up
🔸 SUPPORT IMMERSED ROBOT 🔸
PURCHASE MY VIRTUAL REALITY SCIENCE-FICTION NOVEL, 'THE MEMORY ENGINE':
Kindle/paperback (UK): amzn.to/3depUvI
Kindle/paperback (US): tiny.cc/ob7ksz
Audible (UK): tinyurl.com/y2f529my
Audible (US): tinyurl.com/7bca5z24
IMMERSED ROBOT MERCH:
immersedrobot.creator-spring.com
VR HEADSET WALL MOUNTS AT MY ETSY STORE:
immersedrobot.etsy.com/
🔸 PC SPECS (+ AFFILIATE LINKS ON AMAZON)🔸
MY PC:
Gigabyte RTX 3080 Graphics Card (amzn.to/3wJXUJB)
Ryzen 7 5800X3D CPU (amzn.to/3w5XePi)
32Gb DDR 4 3600MHz RAM (amzn.to/2ZVcleh)
1TB Sabrant Rocket M.2 SSD (amzn.to/3b1e08B)
ASUS Prime B550M-A Motherboard (amzn.to/3sUm5C0)
Deep Cool Neptwin V2 CPU Cooler (amzn.to/3c7Bzf3)
VR HEADSETS AFFILIATE LINKS:
Valve Index (amzn.to/3sxdyou)
Pimax Crystal (pimax.com/?ref=0eQMbw) - for $20 off use coupon code 'robot' at checkout:
Meta Quest 2 (amzn.to/3oHQaVl)
Pico 4 (amzn.to/3eHh91N)
Meta Quest Pro (amzn.to/3CKAfMG)
OTHER EQUIPMENT:
TP-Link Archer AX1800 WiFi 6 Router (amzn.to/3u9Ahbb)
Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas One (amzn.to/3swRpX9)
Thrustmaster T150 Force Feedback Racing Wheel (amzn.to/2Ocj8ht)
Blue Yeti Microphone (amzn.to/3aYZ0rL)
Logitech C920 Webcam (amzn.to/37Qgxk0)
Yoleo Gaming Chair (amzn.to/3PKKwAH)
Leap Motion hand tracking module (amzn.to/3lxxK8Y)
Antlion ModMic Wireless (amzn.to/3wwraE6)
KKCOBVR Q2 Battery Strap for Quest 2 (amzn.to/3GE6JZA)
🔸 SOCIAL LINKS 🔸
TWITTER:
@ImmersedRobot ( / immersedrobot )
THE IMMERSED ROBOT DISCORD COMMUNITY:
/ discord
MY AUTHOR WEBSITE:
www.garywalkden.com
#VR #DynamicFoveatedRendering #PimaxCrystal #DFR

[@H.Despres]

Delivered 30 minutes ago!!!!

[@Mako-sz4qr]

Always thank mbucchia for the DFR he’s the man with plan and very talent it would not as good without him and he’s does this with passion and his free time ! He’s the man with the plan !

[@HeadsetHistorian]

The most impressive aspect of the crystal's DFR is the fact that Devs don't need to implement it. Of course it doesn't work on 100% of games but it's already supported in far more games than any other headset.

[@ImmersedRobot]

Good point. I’m hoping it will become clearer over time exactly what we can expect from compatibility.

[@fan2hd277]

Its not the point! The real deal with the eye tracking with FR. They are not many headsets with eye tracking.

[@scanx6163]

I'm surprised you don't earn more than 20% FPS with DFR...

[@DrOculusVR]

This is brilliant, I cant wait for eye tracking to become the standard and this makes the pimax really stand out and a modern headset. If they can sort build quality issues and customer relations they really could be the go to headset for enthusiast's

[@ImmersedRobot]

I agree. Although I will say that the build quality on the Crystal isn't standing out as anything other than par for the course to me. It's of course quite plasticy, but it doesn't feel cheap by any means - at least in my opinion.

[@tomc1380]

I agree mate. When DFR is properly implemented it will benefit all modern headsets that include eye tracking options. In a few years time it will be the norm imho.

[@DrOculusVR]

@@ImmersedRobot that's good to know I've heard the go to accessory for the old pimax was a roll of electrical tape as they come apart and the reports of the head straps arriving broken (all be it then replaced by pimax so point there) made me think they were still doing the same as before

[@boekes123]

Love you videos man! I've been watching your vids for the last couple of years. Thank you for making awesome content and keep up the good work!

[@ImmersedRobot]

Thanks! Really appreciate the kind words.

[@cnnhean]

Amazing. I hope this can go more extreme, like reducing quality even more around

[@ImmersedRobot]

I agree, I'd love more options within the Pimax client to have more control over how aggressive you can make DFR.

[@TonyDrecaps]

​@ImmersedRobot yes! Suggest this to them.

[@cnnhean]

@@ImmersedRobot as a game developer myself i believe this has huge potential for in game optimization setting

[@jonbarto9146]

Maybe have the DFR adjust dynamically based on the GPU

[@ImmersedRobot]

@@jonbarto9146 Yes, that would make a lot of sense.

[@TonyDrecaps]

Keep the DFR tests coming! I'm hoping it works for all games soon. How can you tell if it works or not for a title?

[@ImmersedRobot]

It’s not always easy to tell. In OpenXR titles, the option for DFR becomes available it seems. But I’m generally just recording a few minutes of footage while looking around to see if there is pixelation where I’m not looking. More information from Pimax on how to know, or a list of compatible games would be very much appreciated!

[@TonyDrecaps]

​@@ImmersedRobotyes! That would be super helpful. Appreciate the reply

[@Alch3mistVR]

This DFR is pretty impressive on the Crystal! Thanks for the vid. Love the Outsider's Mark shirt!

[@johnmann7o2]

This is pimax’s killer feature. Will save most from buying a 5090.

[@thatstokedgamer]

Erg. We need DFR in more headsets. It's the one biggest downside to the Bigscreen beyond. Pre ordered anyways. It'll be a huge upgrade over my G2.

[@ImmersedRobot]

Native OpenVR titles (like Elite Dangerous and Aircar) do not require that checkbox to be selected in the PimaxXR software (as I mention at about 3:44). I've received some clarification on this aspect from @Omniwhatever on this point. Some OpenVR titles will work with DFR natively via the Pimax implementation. OpenXR native titles work through PimaxXR and OpenXR Toolkit by applying Nvidia VRS technology. Big thanks to Omniwhatever for providing some more information on this, and I'll try to get my head around all of this as I use the Crystal with DFR more! I clarified some of this further in my follow-up video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJrRhmWQhLCca9U

[@GT1GT]

My god I am loving my crystal purchase more and more all I need is the address confirmation lets go Pimax send my headset lol

[@hard2hook]

Be advised that after address confirmation there is another one - two weeks before you get a tracking number, and at least another one to two weeks or more before you actually receive the headset from Pimax.

[@marcusdamberger]

@@hard2hook Also, customs takes their sweet time too.. Mine was held up for 8 days..

[@markm75]

Is there a built in Virtual Desktop like with the aero when using say MSFS+ Openxr?

[@ImmersedRobot]

Not as far as I know, although truth be told, the thought to check hasn't even crossed my mind until you've just brought it up. If I discover something like that in the settings then I'll let you know.

[@markm75]

@@ImmersedRobot Thanks, yeah that would be useful, as I have the aero at the moment, considering the pimax, but using a dofreality from 6 or 8 feet from lcds would make things difficult without the virtual desktop id think.

[@claybomb1064]

😄👍

[@Cofaciano]

Hi. I have a G2+4090. There are a few combinations that gets you 90fps: (1)steam+dfr or (2)steam+openXR+openXR Toolkit or (3)steam+opencomposite+openXR Toolkit or (4)steam+lower resolution or (5)steam+openvr_fsr+openvr-fsr-app. With the G2, I can't use option (1). With the G2+4090, I don't need options (4) and (5). Maybe you do with your 3080. Good luck! ;)

[@SisterPain]

im glad that you can get it to switch on properly every time or are you have that issue as well?

[@ImmersedRobot]

No, I’m not. The 8KX felt a little more temperamental, but the Crystal is pretty much rock solid. I’ve never had an issue with it not turning on or not being detected by the PC.

[@fettuccine723]

Would love to see the day when a Meta Quest has tracking and dynamic foviated rendering so that the industry starts to take it seriously, like the big screen beyond for 1000 bucks you really think it would have eye tracking, hopefully the index two will have it because the average person isn’t going to want to screw around with all that software, Like on the PS five how it just works, I guarantee you when Me does it it will just work, and when valve does it it will probably just be a toggle switch in Steam vr that hopefully will make it very easy for other headsets that have tracking to enable it without having third-party software open

[@robinv1485]

well you have it on the pro

[@decadent.]

The most important test -> does foveated rendering work with the praydog UE mod ? :)

[@ImmersedRobot]

If I get access to the mod then I’ll happily test it.

[@mostwanted2000]

Is it using lasers, IR or a normal camera to track your eyes? Can it hurt your eyes?

[@ImmersedRobot]

This uses Tobii eye tracking, which I believe is IR based.

[@Ginuwine-kx2iv]

I’m having issues with really bad antialiasing any suggestions?

[@ImmersedRobot]

Is it happening in any particular title?

[@reptilexcq2]

Does it work with AMS2? If you can test it out I'll appreciate it.

[@ImmersedRobot]

I will try to get to that at some point. I don’t currently own that one so I’ll need to purchase it unfortunately.

[@SimplexPL]

Shirt appreciation comment (Dishonored FTW). Garry, is there any benefit to using Open Composite with Index?

[@ImmersedRobot]

Not as far as I'm aware, although I only really tried it once when I had my Index I think. Also, the Index worked so well with SteamVR, and you had all the extra 'per application' options with that HMD that it didn't seem worth pursuing imo. (Dishonored FTW - true)

[@SimplexPL]

@@ImmersedRobot Index is still my daily driver and the most comfortable headset I ever wore on my noggin. And I tried Vive, Rift, Quest, Quest 2, Pico 4, Pimax 5K, PSVR1 and PSVR2. I can wear it for hours and not feel any discomfort. Index FTW :) Why won't Valve release a successor?

[@adamlitchfield3371]

Mate could you please do an FPS check on ACC if you get chance? I've been waiting years to get into VR and I'd convinced myself that I needed to wait for a 5090 for it to be smooth and enjoyable but maybe DFR with a Crystal could be an alternative 🤔

[@ImmersedRobot]

I don’t actually own ACC, only the original Assetto Corsa. It is currently on a sale though so… I’ll do my best.

[@adamlitchfield3371]

Cheers mate. I think that video would do well for views because it has always been notoriously badly optimised for VR so a lot of people have been waiting for a solution for a long time now. By the way are you from Nottingham by any chance?

[@ImmersedRobot]

@@adamlitchfield3371 close. I’m from Leicester.

[@ImmersedRobot]

Here's a quick ACC performance test on the Pimax Crystal and my RTX3080 - kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6Xbn2Bqg8qYeLM ...It's a tough one to get running well with decent resolution scaling to be honest.

[@adamlitchfield3371]

@@ImmersedRobot That's very good of you mate, cheers. I was hoping that DFR was going to get it to the level of the 'Boosted Media' triple screen videos but that was obviously optimistic 😏

[@martinmccloskey4206]

how or when do we all get it?

[@ImmersedRobot]

It will roll out as an update to the Pimax client, but I haven’t been told when.

[@dinubunica]

there's something I don't get: Pimax tells me that DFR will be active maybe end of august, and you say it's already working.... well ???

[@ImmersedRobot]

As a beta tester for the eye tracking, I had earlier access to it.

[@dinubunica]

@@ImmersedRobot then you should say that :)

[@bigbangerz5856]

are you streaming in a garage?

[@ImmersedRobot]

Of course, it’s the only place to stream… I guess.

[@marcusdamberger]

@@ImmersedRobot Yeah indeed, my garage is going to be the place for VR once I have it all cleaned up, living in apartment, and it's the only open space big enough.. But at least I have one.

[@antjones2281]

Super confused. Does ED run openXR? As far as I know its an Open VR game. The only way PimaxXR would affect ED is if you run OpenComposite (also by mbuchhia) that globally converts all OpenVR games into OpenXR. If you dont know about Ooen Composite you should look it up. By passing the need to run SteamVR can be liberating.

[@ImmersedRobot]

I do mention OpenComposite towards the end of this video as I was unable to get eye tracking to work with that implementation in Elite Dangerous which, like you, doesn’t make sense to me. I could only get DFR to work when using the eye tracking in the Pimax Play software then activating eye tracking in Pimax XR. I still run Elite via SteamVR but the Pimax XR was the runtime being used by SteamVR (which I understand should not make a difference to Elite since it is an OpenVR title). This is also why I mention that we need more information from Pimax regarding the fundamentals of how DFR is implemented in the different runtimes. It’s extremely confusing, and a case of trial and error right now. Edit: I’m trying to give as much information on this as possible but nothing is particularly clear right now.

[@Omniwhatever]

@@ImmersedRobot So, I've done a bunch of testing with the eye tracking and DFR, testing 58 titles with it between both OpenXR and OpenVR, while also working with the PimaxXR developer on some testing, perhaps I can shed some light on this and there are a few things to clarify here. Firstly, Pimax's native implementation of their software stack is ONLY working with OpenVR at this time, it does not work with anything OpenXR related. Confirmed that with Mbucchia, the developer of PimaxXR and OpenXRToolkit, he tried to inject it into OpenXR apps and would just get error messages. And nothing I tried that was OpenXR would work with it, even in games which I could use both the OpenVR and OpenXR runtime and had it work with the OpenVR one. So, right away that precludes anything OpenXR from running with this. AT LEAST NATIVELY. You can use the OpenXRToolkit to get the VRS version of DFR(What the Pimax Client uses with it) working in a handful of OpenXR titles. You just need to have the eye tracking option checked in the PimaxXR runtime and have eye tracking enabled in the Pimax Play software, your foveated rendering setting in the Pimax Client does not matter at this point since it's controlled by PimaxXR/OpenXR toolkit. Secondly, while I don't have ED to test myself, that sounds rather odd and like something that shouldn't be happening. If SteamVR launches then PimaxXR isn't being used, since that should only work with openXR runtimes. Out of all the games I tested, and I have PimaxXR enabled, I never ran into a bug like that. If you have it selected as the OpenXR runtime and SteamVR launches, then it's using the OpenVR runtime and PimaxXR shouldn't be doing anything. Can't say I can replicate that bug even trying a few other games. Maybe report it to Mbucchia if you run into it in anything else. Compatibility wise, it's reasonable high, but not universal. 35/58 worked natively, but 2 of them were bugged in one of them it foveated where you looked instead of weren't looking and other I saw a slight prf regression. 2 more titles past those 35 only worked via OpenXRToolkit, then the remaining were just totally incompatible.

[@ImmersedRobot]

This is great information! Thanks for taking the time to do that. I also managed to get Aircar working with DFR just like Elite, but it makes sense that they’re both OpenVR titles I believe. So, when running something like MSFS, OpenXR Toolkit is using VRS to implement DFR into that native OpenXR title? I might need to pick your brains on this in the future! I’m a noob at eye tracking and DFR, but it’s extremely interesting to me.

[@Omniwhatever]

@@ImmersedRobot That is correct. With OpenXR titles, like MSFS, the OpenXRToolkit can be used for the VRS implementation of DFR. It's not universal but there's still a couple notable titles which it works with. There's another notable method, called Quad Views, which leads to actually ludicrous gains to the tune of > +50% even on a 4090(Could not believe my eyes when I saw it), but to my knowledge only 3 games work with it right now, since it requires some deeper framework support within the engine and also certain post-processing effects(Such as AO) break it entirely. That's also only usable by OpenXR stuff and not the OpenXR toolkit. Mbucchia has it working for Varjo and the Meta Quest Pro, working on native integration with PimaxXR. Some VERY promising results from testing though. Plan to do a video myself covering all this stuff. Reach out if you ever feel like it! I can also be found on Reddit or Discord under this username if you ever need to contact me. I got a list of things I've tested too but youtube doesn't like links in the comments anymore so can't share it here.

[@ImmersedRobot]

@@Omniwhatever Great information again, and I'll look forward to your videos regarding all of this. I've just recorded a video which will probably go up tomorrow where I try to clarify some of my confusion in this video. I've referenced your comment and will also provide a link to your channel in the description. Thanks again.

[@jamiesalmonsculpture8599]

Glad I canceled my pre order. Happy to wait until these bugs are worked out, and by then who knows what else will be out. Tinkering has lost it's appeal, and simply don't have time for it. Kids and a job take priority!

[@ImmersedRobot]

I can’t argue with the sentiment there. Sometimes the tinkering can get a little much, although from that perspective this has been the most painless Pimax headset from that point of few in most other aspects.

[@Eskoxo]

yea this needs 4090 otherwise its meh and also nvidia has something called vrss 2 maybe worth taking a look at

[@unotoli]

Good news, but very difficult to follow video (even knowing what is what).

[@unotoli]

PS main benefit - one can get much stable FPS with much better visual settings, using more flexible OpenXR approach to quite many supported games. That's why I am using HP Reverb G2 Omnicept (G2 with eye tracking) and will not be buying BigsreenVR that got none of it (I won't be buying Crystal either, but that's too much of an offoptic).

[@ImmersedRobot]

Fair enough. I was recording from a stream of thought rather than a well thought out set of notes, which might have been a mistake in this instance. Thanks for watching anyway.

[@scanx6163]

I'm surprised you don't earn more than 20% FPS with DFR...

[@Killswitch1411]

Comes with Eye tracking lol.. Of course us normies still wait and wait.

[@ImmersedRobot]

Fair comment. I hope it gets rolled out soon.

[@charterflug7181]

Hi 🙋‍♂️ I just can say THANK YOU for the work, the explanations and your videos - I really appreciate it and got several tipps, hints and improvement from it 👍 Hope you‘ll find soon the time to do the mentioned video about DVR 🥽 ✈️ Regards Micha