Three-engine takeoff ends up in disaster at Kansas City Airport - ATI Flight 782

[@tegknox2694]

MPC Flights has always been my goto source for information about aircraft related crashes and incidents, but the continuous recreation improvements deserve recognition. They are breathtaking and much appreciated

[@TheLitehart1]

This was desperately hard to watch in that you know it doesn't end well, and that the pilots have ignored the negative signs they received in their first run. Even I who knows nothing about aircraft could sense in that 2nd attempt that there just wasn't enough speed or lift on rotation to proceed. Meanwhile, I continue to enjoy so much the quality of these vids - there is such a compelling sense of being personally involved (for better or worse) which can only happen in a high-end production. Thanks for this!

[@obfuscated3090]

As a retired USAF engine troop and crew chief I quite enjoyed your high quality video. I find it completely bizarre anyone would take off with ANY critical engine malfunction unless under incoming bombardment. The sole excuse for trying was MONEY, and that's no excuse at all when it comes to flight safety. If an engine is needed fly or truck one in on an air ride trailer along with the R&I trailer and swap engines onsite. No commercial flight is that important.

[@CraigKnudsen]

Money wasn't on those pilots minds. Nice try.

[@cll1639]

@@CraigKnudsen He wasn't referring to the pilots. Nice try. In my wildest dreams I can't imagine this being an acceptable procedure, especially with the outboard engine being the INOP one. I hate what happened to the crew but damn, the jet hooked left once - I would have taxied that puppy right back to the gate and called it a day. Repair it in place and live to fly another day.

[@CraigKnudsen]

@@cll1639 But the pilots were flying the plane! How can you not refer to the pilots with such a salacious (and economic) claim unless you were referring to them?

[@cll1639]

@@CraigKnudsen Quit while you're ahead, Knudsen; you're embarrassing yourself and you're confusing me with those big words.

[@daveoelke857]

I’m a life long KC resident. I remember when this happened. To my knowledge, this is the only accident to ever happen at KCI. My coworker at the time had a 3 year old daughter and they lived near the airport. She got out of bed and said “Daddy, I just heard a building fall over.”

[@barbaracrook5492]

Cargo carrier Buffalo Airways crashed in a farmers field short of MCI in the mid 1980’s. Boeing 707. Pilots were on a false glide slope. 4 men perished in the crash.

[@Bullneck72]

My Dad was a captain at ATI when this occurred. He knew Mark, who had actually worked at the same company I did in Burbank, Calif., though we never crossed paths. Dad had flown with him a couple times in the stretch 8 and found him to be a capable FO but realistic about his limitations. He could've refused to join the captain of Flight 782 out of safety concerns, which by all accounts (even though it's not depicted here), he had that night. The procedure of permitting the FE to jockey the throttles didn't exist in any manual for a three-engine liftoff in the DC-8. That was ludicrous. It proved their undoing. The captain was out of his depth, and it's reflected in his going ahead with that ultimately fatal decision (along with the stalled condition rotation). The chief pilot at ATI was haunted by this accident ever after, knowing he should've done the ferry flight himself. You can view a successful ATI short-haul flight with Dad at the controls (and me behind the camera) from the 1990s on my KZbin page:)

[@Wyomingchief]

Who's a pretty sad deal. I was one of the First Responders to this crash scene. Literally just barely beyond the airport perimeter. And from what we saw that night it's surprising that there was that much of the aircraft still intact. Because there was debris and fire spread over a lot of territory. But yeah it was definitely a memorable call I was a paramedic with NAPS Ambulance Service

[@Cruiser777]

That first attempt should have been enough to cancel the flight Rip.

[@TheNoticer83]

I don't mess around with stuff like that. If I feel I had a close call, I usually stop whatever it was that I was doing. Unfortunately they had to weigh the possibility of losing their job. Obviously all 3 would prefer to have stopped after the first attempt

[@BobHolepit]

Exactly right

[@jhonsiders6077]

I can remember my father talking about ferry flights with a engine out to another airport where they had shop facilities to change one out it seemed pretty routine back in the 60s to 80s

[@kje3429]

Crazy thing is KCI airport had a TWA maintenance base on airport grounds. I was one of the first officers at the scene. Upon approaching, it looked like it had crashed outside of KCI grounds onto I-29 hwy, which it was fortunate that it crashed short of the highway.

[@flyoma]

I drove by heading from Omaha to St Louis the day or two after and from 29 it was quite visible.

[@pamelah2152]

So was the crash site on east side, near I-29?

[@flyoma]

@@pamelah2152 No, it was on the north side off to the left/west of Runway 1L. I-29 curves around the airport along the north side and then down the east side.

[@deanaugust1]

Why didn't TWA maintenance fix the engine ?

[@paulw4310]

The fact that an outboard engine was the inop engine made this 3 engine takeoff challenging at best. There is absolutely NO WAY line pilots should've been doing this flight. On top of that, the FO wasn't even fully qualified. This should've never happened. Sometimes a captain has to just refuse a maintenance ferry when he/she deems it unsafe. I know because I've done it. The assistant chief browbeat me and said I've talked to other pilots and they said they'd do it. I said, fine...then one of them can do it because I'm not. Case closed.

[@smal1393]

There is a three engine take off procedure for that aircraft, as long as the crew was properly trained and the procedure was followed, the accident should not have happened. The NTSB found the primary cause to be problems with the crew training.

[@gregb1599]

It was an empty aircraft, so 3 engine take-off should have been very easy to achieve. If you look at modern aircraft when on testing, they can go almost vertically on take-off.

[@sixtiesjunky3312]

I flew for Flying Tigers. Line pilots were not allowed to perform three engine ferry flights; crew could only consist of properly trained management pilots. I'm stunned that they tried this with an F/O not yet line qualified.

[@carsten4594]

Yes one would think that an empty 3 engine TO should have been no problem. As the rudder became effective above 100kts it should have been adequate to offset asymmetrical thrust unless a crosswind made it ineffective.

[@OlesonMD]

Correct. Airlines have special training crews they would use for this type of ferry flight. A line pilot would never be assigned to do this.

[@nelrob01]

Many years ago I was working as a licensed aircraft engineer in Montreal Canada. We took care of Delta maintenance. One morning we had a Delta DC8 62 or 63 series with an inoperative outboard engine. Delta Flight Ops decided they would ferry it out on three engines rather than carry out the engine change in Montreal. When the crew arrived I remember discussing their procedure with them. In all honesty, I never knew there was such a procedure at that time. My own company operated DC8's as well but as far as I know we never used three engine ferry or if it existed. Long story short, the crew tried several times to take off but every time they would veer off the centerline, and the last time the Captain was using the tiller to try and hold heading but the nosewheels were skidding on the runway and they were concerned they would fail if they continued. In any case they aborted the operation and the engine was changed in Montreal....... Sad to hear about the ATI crash in KCI.

[@CAROLUSPRIMA]

This guy just keeps upping his game. Superb recreations of crashes and incidents that aren’t covered so much. He should have a million subscribers on that latter fact alone. Some of us grow weary of seeing the same crashes over and over. And I’d bet there are a million of us. Word is getting around.

[@flyoma]

So true. Often it's the ones not so well known (probably because they weren't high in passenger death count or captured by the news live) that effected the most change in regulation or procedure.

[@chugwaterjack4458]

I was working for an FBO in the Pacific NW when a Baron owner needed a pilot to take him and his wife to a city about 400 miles south, and fly them home again after their visit. Although it functioned perfectly on the outbound leg, when it came time for the return trip, one engine absolutely would not start. The owner pointed out that we were about 400 lbs underweight, it was a cool evening, and well below the airplanes single engine service ceiling, so he kept insisting that we take off on ONE ENGINE! Obviously, by the fact that I'm writing this today, I refused, and after several rather heated calls with my chief pilot, he backed me up on it.

[@wilsjane]

You are a wise man. At the time did you consider that assuming your first engine failed with correct oil temperature and pressure, you could have been flying an aircraft with contaminated fuel. Whatever the reason, no aircraft should take off with an engine down, prior to certification by a competent engineer, who was completely satisfied that the fault was limited to that engine. Anything could have been looming in the system. As you may have guessed, I am a chartered engineer. Although I do not work in aviation, all the same rules apply.

[@ronanorion]

I lost one engine on the roll out in my Baron 55 we could not taxi off the runway 😢😢

[@walkerpantera]

Wow this was great! That first take off roll perspective from the rear was amazingly real. I loved it.

[@jonmartin6451]

I was a ramp tramp at AB won pat airport in Guam in the early 90’s and we used to handle the ATI DC-8 Combi’s at Anderson AFB for the military. Always found the Crew and FA’s to be top notch

[@Iridium43]

A few years ago a plane had trouble so they turned around and flew 1000 miles back to Seattle. The passengers applauded. If the pilot thought it was too dangerous to fly he should have landed instead of making the long return trip. This was for the convenience of the airline.

[@chucksurgeonertribute2113]

My father Tim Sullivan was one of the air traffic controllers. He was never the same after that.

[@jamesnoury]

Sorry.

[@jimmcclellan8891]

By the way, your narration and graphics are absolutely first rate. And I appreciate the pretty much real time. Thank you

[@jress9967]

I was the FE on a DC8 three engine ferry flight with an inop outboard engine from Europe to Kai Tak with an enroute stop in Saudia. We were all Instructor flight mgmt crew types. The major concern was the take off from Saudia due to high temps and humidity, we took off early morning when it was coolest, ( Coolest being relative). I went reluctantly had little choice, go or back to the line. Never will understand how the FAA condone an intermediate stop on a three engine ferry flight.

[@9deebee]

Back in the day, I was F/O on a three engine ferry flight on a DHC-7. It wasn't a huge problem, even though neither of us had done one before. We had to leave our Flight Attendant behind and she was probably pissed! Anyway, we briefed beforehand and our manual was very explicit. One of the first items was to preset the rudder trim to a certain value, depending on which engine was inoperative. I don't see this mentioned anywhere in the video.

[@crewmax4240]

My gosh, the graphics are phenomenal.

[@HapticFrequencies]

What an amazing loss of intellect, skill & expertise in a field that is quite relatively small & close knit. A serious tragedy in every sense imaginable...Can't believe that was already almost 30 yrs ago....

[@allenmurray7893]

I remember we had a C - 5 doing a three engine ferry flight, I think it went to Kelly AFB. There was a flight test crew doing it, and they did a few practice flights in the simulator. We also did simulated engine outs on local training missions, but, of course, they pulled the power back after T/O. There is no reason that a three engine take off can't be done, but, it should be done by a check crew, after they practice a few times in the simulator. 12:31

[@RealityDictates]

It Saddens my heart to see this sort of Tragedy happen. However, as with Many things that happen in life such as this, at least there are things that can be learned from such an occurrence that can be applied to future events to aid in the Necessitated Avoidance of this Ever happening again if At All Possible and my Thoughts And Prayers go out to All of the Family And Friends of these 3 Pilots. This video was done Extremely Well with the level of detail and precise accuracy regarding All that took place during this Very Unfortunate situation being among the Finest Re-enactment videos Ever Made. I want to Thank MPC Flights for presenting this video to allow us all to Fully understand Exactly what Actually happened. Take Care and God Bless.

[@MPCFlights]

Thank you

[@alicejones3668]

As an RN I don't want to be anyone's "I can do this", Covid-19 was a experimental human trial, if reaction happened no insurance would pay since listed as experimental. Pilots like scientist and physicians try because they think educated guesses won't fail. Being 6' under isn't a great guess..

[@flyoma]

I remember reading the NTSB report on this.... I remember seeing the wreckage either the day after or two days later... was visible from I-29 which runs around the north then east perimeter of the airport.

[@benjaminv.5662]

This is a tragic flight that never made it to far. This airplane was unfit to fly, not necessarily by the crew, although questionable qualifications, but this plane should've been serviced at the airport it was at, not fly it to another airport to service it. This accident could've been avoided if the pilot had taken into account that this wasn't a revenue flight and more thought was put into safety. The failures were everywhere and now three pilots have perished because of everyone involved. The blame lies everywhere.

[@oneofmany1087]

hit a pothole Kansas has plenty of them and charge plenty of tax money. but never fix them

[@sandeewood2948]

DC-8 flew me home from Vietnam in Aug 1969 it was a braniff airline DC-8 green in color best flight I was ever on….sorry to hear about this accident…terrible

[@chugwaterjack4458]

It's too bad the simulation did not reflect the flight in the gauges. The panel showed four perfectly normal engine numbers, and neglected to show the abort.

[@desertlvr]

You noticed! So did I but the animation was pretty good although it looked like a -61 used by most pax carriers like EAL AND UAL. The -63 had the long duct engines used by Seaboard and Flying Tigers to name a few. I did many years of maintenance to the -63 and did taxi the planes around LAX for positioning. One time, I taxied with #1 shut down, had to make left turn into the maintenance area. Even though the tiller was pretty effective, when bringing up power on #4, the nose wheel would hop from the asymmetric condition. I can believe the pilot had his hands full with the ATI incident.

[@jmp.t28b99]

Captain and FO should have verified those computed speeds since this was a very unusual and critical night operation! First abort would have raised red flags with me. Too many variables not explained after first abort. I would have gone back to the hotel.

[@virginiaviola5097]

Same. Especially since the second attempt was going the same way as the first, despite the FE managing the 4th engine. At that point they should have realised that something somewhere in their calculations was flawed and gone back to the drawing board and started again. Such a terrible outcome.

[@Andrew-13579]

There’s no lift in the night air. Hadn’t they heard that? It’s like the captain tried to “will” the plane into flight. But the laws of physics would have none of it and ruled the night. Yes, they should have aborted that one, too and taxied back to the ramp and shut down. And then thoroughly gone over their calculations together, until all three were sure that the charts and tables were read correctly. Apparently they were putting in too much power on #4 at too low a speed. If full right rudder wasn’t keeping it on the runway centerline, it was never going to work, was it?

[@ChrisEbbrsen]

Thank you for the insight. I would not have thought professional pilots would dare do something like this.If there were something wrong with an engine or equipment shut er down. Repair on the spot or wait patiently for parts to arrive. Not enough hours for some of these pilots. I'm surprised they would endanger themselves like this. I don't know all the circumstances surrounding this flight but I do know that they ship or fly planes to Australia or some obscure country because jets are no longer serviced at airports any longer. I think this is a big mistake. I have flown to Europe before and consider myself very lucky to be alive. There is so much that can go wrong with a.jet engine let.alone an entire airplane. God bless the family's of these pilots who lost their lives.

[@perryprincess1]

i’m thinking the pilot wanted to use the scenario as training for the co-pilot?? why else would he have risked such a thing???

[@occultustactical6138]

The realism of today’s simulators is beyond good, I have a hours and it looks absolutely real.

[@dan797]

I just discovered your channel. I’m enjoying it very much. I think your graphics quality and CGI is spectacular. I like how you make the planes shine and reflect light as they spin around on the tarmac. Very scary and story. I would’ve quit after the first failed takeoff the attempt

[@ChadNelson-v7v]

Whoever says you can’t ferry an airplane with a dead engine please refer to the FAA person who had to sign off on the ferry permit. Maybe more appropriate action would be to update the flight manual and come up with solid technical advice as to a three engine take off on that plane.

[@KKEM641]

I remember this when it happened. I wss delivering pizza in South Kansas City listening to my scanner. The airport fire chief lived not far from where I was, and i saw him going on the way up..he made it 30 mun flat.

[@kevinfoley8105]

I am not a pilot so this might be a silly question, but could they not have taken off simply using engines 2 and 3, and thus avoid any chance of an asymmetrical power problem?

[@deetee5052]

Not enough power

[@CarlJay-ry8mr]

These are interesting comments. I wonder about less fuel on board to reduce weight and take off with engines two and four? I wonder also what actual procedure was supposed to be that they did not know about.

[@gregb1599]

Just shows how much aircraft engines have improved over the years, where say a boeing 777 or Airbus a350 with higher capacity and yet happily fly on 2 engines and can even do almost vertical take-off for a short time. This DC8 was also empty, no freight, and just 3 pilots, and yet it struggled on 3 engines!

[@kdawson020279]

​@@gregb1599 This plane wanted to be an Aerosucre cargo plane when it grew up. Agreed, the sheer efficiency of modern turbofan engines is ridiculous compared to the old Pratt & Whitneys that were ubiquitous through the 20th century. Then again, our computer controlled processes and materials inspection capabilities have advanced at light speed in the modern computing age. We have the ability to make that much power and not have it explode violently on a regular basis.

[@johncantwell8216]

@@cuchidesoto2686 With the drag of two dead engines, that would be quite a risk. These planes were designed to take off with 4 engines operating, and sometimes that gets a bit difficult. That's why most engines are built to allow them to remain at takeoff power for a full 5 minutes before throttling back to climb thrust.

[@larrybaker5316]

very sad........your graphics are amazing, some scenes it looks like a live shot of the real aircraft....love the heat waves coming from the rear of the engines on the 1st attempt.

[@waynetompkins3006]

I always imagine the scene at the end is the airplane's soul ascending to airplane heaven.

[@AviatorAlex02]

wow, I never thought that my home airport would actually have crashes, that's wild.

[@TerryMundy]

No kidding. I never heard anything about it.

[@randallmunson2098]

My home airport used to be O’Hare Intl. in Chicago. I know of only one fatal crash there (actually near the airport), an American Airlines flight lost an engine during takeoff due to the failure of an engine pylon. 273 people died and it is the worst aviation disaster in US history. Think of the AA mechanic(s) who have to live with that error.

[@richbrake9910]

KCI is a great airport.

[@ClintHelton]

Would be interesting to get a description of the corrected 3-engine procedure.

[@paulcrumley9756]

The verbal briefing was right; just the two factors were at issue: Most critical was the miscalculation of Vmcg. This led the pilot to believe that he had enough speed to fully bring in the #4 engine, when in reality he didn't, and in the second try, letting the FE take charge of bringing up the #4 engine - the reason the pilot flying is supposed to manage that power lever is to allow him/her to feel how the airplane responds, and adjust - quickly - to deviations caused by thrust assymetry.

[@haroldburton419]

Airplanes and pilots have their restrictions and they don’t stretch!

[@bromschwig]

I’ve done them on 727. Not difficult. Light aircraft, 2 ENG performance charts used. Flaps 5. Ground interconnect wired open, full power on number 2, release brakes, add power on number 3 as airspeed increases and rudder becomes effective. There is even sufficient power to climb with a 2nd engine failed. ATI crew probably did not use 3ENG charts and plane was too heavy.

[@HansVanNunspeet]

This airplane could be operated on 3-engine ferry. VMC-Ground at sealevel is ,114 kts, so a rotationspeed of 123 kts shoukd be no problem. The real problem was the crew which was obvious not cer- tified for the actual operation.

[@RK-xv9rp]

Why wouldn't you taxi back and have the maintenance people see why the new malfunction/problem?

[@Pak1947KHI]

Agree. Why couldn't the maintenance work be done at the same airport rather than making it fly to another city? Sad 😢

[@tedc7714]

I rode from Hawaii to guam on a kc135 with 3 engines . Fully loaded. He took off on 4 engines and intentionally shut one down after take off. It turned out fine. I never knew why the shut one engines off. I know they knew it was not up to par on takeoff. But they did shut it down.

[@csmith27609]

Dude your videos are awesome great content.

[@MrSuzuki1187]

A Vr (rotation speed) of just 123 knots is WRONG! Way too slow, especially on 3 engines.

[@welcome_to_the_collapse]

The flames at the end were terrifying. Keep it up!

[@travelwithtony5767]

Thank AI.

[@victorjohnson5766]

No flames in cockpit. It was smashed on impact and broke away. Killing the crew.

[@jmowreader9555]

And there wasn't one single solitary soul at KMCI who could fix a JT3D engine? I understand they probably wanted to get the plane back to their own maintenance base to do the work because it'd be cheaper to not farm it out, but this is ridiculous.

[@flightforensics4523]

Occasionally on 727s at the commercial airline where i was a tech, we'd have to set up for 2 engine 727 flights. The crews always did fine! Passengers never knew the difference...I think😮

[@ej2953]

I found myself wondering if they gave the brakes enough time to cool off between the aborted takeoff attempt and the next attempt.

[@sludge8506]

That’s a great question, and I think the crew would have dealt with that, but…

[@Aviator27J]

Maybe it was so light and the speed relatively low that the brake energy wasn't too high. But I'm no DC-8 expert by any means.

[@airman329]

God bless them! Some many pressures on a ferry flight. Gotta make sure you are 100% comfortable or call it a day..

[@coreyandnathanielchartier3749]

I know that military multi-engine aircraft would have a engine-out (failure on takeoff) procedure in place, but not a standing start engine-out takeoff. BTW, does the dead engine simply freewheel during the whole flight?

[@ohioguy215]

Yes, the Pratt & Whitney JT has very little resistance for efficiency reasons. It will windmill even though it is inoperative.

[@billmorris2613]

If the depiction is correct with the difficulty of lifting off the pilot flying should have leveled off ASAP and stayed in ground effect until the gear was up and the aircraft handled correctly. The aircraft lifted off early due to being in ground effect.

[@paulj2948]

I'm astonished that any 4 engine plane is cleared to takeoff with 3. You mean repairs can't be done at Kansas City? Clearly because it was too expensive (although never mentioned). Never ever heard of this procedure for a ferry flight.

[@gordonbryan8381]

For your subsequent videos: airliners do not taxi with the white wing tip strobes on. They are usually turned on the runway after cleared for takeoff.

[@kevinmccool3719]

At 10:45 who plays this creepy music?? Really makes you think about life. Who plays it? And a name of the song??

[@PlymouthVT]

Did he go full power on #4 after he fell back to the ground? Insane he fire walled after falling back to the ground in a stall.

[@mikeday62]

I was born in Kansas City...and none of these lights were this bright that day. 🤨

[@LelaE34]

I remember this crash well. All over our local news and K.C.Star newspaper.

[@kevinfaris4840]

I find it hard to believe that an empty DC-8 would have any difficulty on two engines, but then I’ve never flown one. The numbers don’t add up.

[@straightpipediesel]

That was the issue. There was a speed miscalculation, of Vmc specifically.

[@sludge8506]

He rotated too soon. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@jasonlieu5379]

A dc8 has 4 engines they were trying to take off on 3

[@jasonlieu5379]

A DC -8 had 4 engines they were trying to take off on 3

[@darkokoporcic7146]

@@jasonlieu5379 Zes, but what he wanted to say is they could've taken off on 2 with some patience. They were just afraid they would not have enough power to take off.

[@AntonFourie-m8n]

On the gauges all 4 engines are performing fine?

[@Planefan1000]

8:17 We see that this DC-8 is registered *N730PL* but the accident aircraft was in real life *N782AL*

[@philipkennedy5616]

Because the guy that did this is probably 13 and is an idiot!

[@davegaetano7118]

It would make a lot more sense to simply remove the non-functional engine where the plane was and then ship it to the repair facility.

[@palco22]

From what I gather runway 01L is nearly 11,000 feet, so, could the empty DC-8 not take off on just two engines ? Then once in flight bring up #4 engine. Would the outside temperature be a factor in the DC-8's ability to lift off ? Just curious.

[@RabbahDocRona]

It didn't contribute to the crash but an uncertified FO without a training pilot to supervise him was also a problem...

[@jerilynn871]

why could it not be repaired right there? how insane

[@csmith27609]

Keep up the awesome work

[@chipps1066]

I never knew it was even legal for an aircraft to take off with an engine out,except maybe in wartime.

[@markmonse5285]

The PIC was the father of a former coworker.. Very sad..

[@TheUtuber999]

How much fuel was on board though?

[@rsmarquez1]

This is totally nuts! These pilots are not supposed to be test pilots! I've flown for three airlines. I would never agree to do something like this. You can fire me.

[@tomfilipiak3511]

Flew a DC8 to Viet Nam ,in 1967 Sea board world airways,horrific storm over the Pacific,airplane and crew handled it like nothing!

[@grahamstevenson1740]

COP for 'copilot' ??? Why not F.O.for First Officer to maintain consistency with Capt. ?

[@lylelott4637]

I was wondering the same thing

[@lakeforest2020]

In DC8 era, it was Captain, copilot, flight engineer

[@andilowe9526]

Welcher Simulator ist das?

[@scoobydubedoo]

Westover Metropolitan Airport is in CHICOPEE and NOT in Springfield!!! The WMA shares the runway with Westover Air Reserve Base, home of the C-5M's, assigned to the 439th AW.

[@barryrothman4692]

Never take an airplane with a known problem!

[@Aviator27J]

That's what MELs and CDLs are for, plus maintenance ferry permits. It's important to get planes to maintenance bases, although of course most ferry flights aren't for major issues like this. Sometimes it's a dent out of limits or something like that where safety is considered by having dispatchers planning a lower airspeed, lower altitude, avoiding certain meteorological conditions, etc. If able, it may make sense to send eval (test) pilots to make the flight since they're better trained to deal with that stuff. (Eval pilots are line pilots as well, but they go through training specific to what may be encountered after heavy maintenance.)

[@ChadNelson-v7v]

Yeah MEL’ing an entire engine is pretty bold. But with no passengers and no cargo on board should have aided the take off. It’s like a twin engine aircraft with a little extra boost with number 4. But also considering other factors like available hanger space at that airport I don’t think you would want to do an engine change on the ramp. That would be a few day process outside and really suck if it would be attempted at all.

[@Aviator27J]

@@ChadNelson-v7v Well you can't MEL an engine of course, and I agree that flying with an absolutely unairworthy aircraft isn't advised except when within safe bounds of ferry permits, but even then, some situations should result in refusal by the PIC. The issue with this being a twin engine operation is that the DC-8 isn't meant to be a twin, and adding the third engine results in asymmetric thrust. It's especially pronounced at high thrust rating and over long distances (like a mid-con it was scheduled for), so it just seems like this flight shouldn't have been planned in the first place. However, not flying any aircraft without every single item in perfect working order isn't feasible. We certainly can't even do that with cars. Like if airline pilots did (and could legally do) their own flight planning, the result would require massively increased costs by air carriers.

[@kruelunusual6242]

They do it all the time…you probably takes off and flown in a plane with maintenance issues documented and not!

[@barryrothman4692]

@kruelunusual6242 Flew many types of aircraft up to 4 engines. I would never take an aircraft with a safety of flight iasue. I have flown and trained for 2 engine out landing and go arounds. I would never attempt a 3 engine takeoff!

[@jiyushugi1085]

All to save the money required to repair/replace the engine in place instead of at home base. Really wonder who made the call on this. Hard to believe they even considered it with one of the outboard engines out. One of the nasty secrets of aviation is that it's often the 'Chief Pilot' who makes these calls, and the reason many of these guys seek the position of Chief Pilot is because they're afraid to fly but hope their title will convince people that they actually have 'the right stuff'. These are the guys who get people killed.

[@CSkyhawk722]

From 20+ years of 121 airline ops, you are 100% correct.

[@thud1015]

Fabulous! Had me glued to the screen. I have just recently discovered this channel and think the videos are tremendous. The graphics are beautiful and there are more obscure, lesser known accidents reconstructed. Thankyou! ❤

[@sealand000]

Considering there was no load, could they have used only two engines, one on each side? The crew sure took their lives into their own hands. Very tragic.

[@user-jn1ew8rs8r]

all that incompetence in one place at the same time

[@jimhansen1245]

What software is this

[@larrybruce4856]

There is no way any plane should take off with an inoperative engine. Thank God there were no passengers on board.

[@leeoldershaw956]

Nice video but the CGI model was a - 61, not a -63. The -63 pylons connected completely under the wings like a -62.

[@davidbaldwin1591]

Comments made me sub. If others are this confident in you..

[@RalphIrvine]

"If you wanna try it again"....?

[@ronanorion]

Do it at night to complicate matters ? Always refine and diminish risk factors.

[@barryrothman4692]

I left out poor crew coordination. As a/s increased and he added power on the asymmetric engine, the pilot never told FO to give him added rudder trim.

[@ottavva]

isn't life strange ? three year prior I flew over that very same apt MCI ( Kansas City - Missouri ) on my way from Washington DCA to San Francisco SFO

[@Kenny-en7wb]

FO in training? Not typed?

[@ligeiasinistra879]

I aware is 60's technology. Now, the aircraft was empty... How about have taken off with only #2 and #3? How about filling inboard tanks only? Has enough power for décollage and climbing? Just to avoid the yaw of the aircraft. Is it possible? Is unlikely?

[@ecliptix5436]

I worked avionics in heavy maintenance on DB-8 freighters. Wondering why they didn't have the mechanics swap #1 and #2 to at least reduce the asymmetric thrust... The JT3's weren't that hard to R&R.

[@oubrioko]

The same reason they didn't just pay to have a new engine shipped to KC and installed. ATI's maintenance base was in Massachusetts, and it is cheaper and simpler to ferry the plane home, than to swap an engine at an away station where you'd have to pay whatever the locals charge, or pay to have your own maintenance personnel/equipment flown in. From the company's standpoint, it's very clear why this decision was made to ferry the aircraft home. From the flight crew's point of view, they apparently tried to do what they were told, even though in hindsight - they were clearly unprepared, overwhelmed, and un(der)qualified to successfully and properly perform the required procedures.

[@stephenqueen7686]

Should have used longest rwy.less flaps more speed before rotatation. Shallow climb.gear up quicker

[@northmaineguy5896]

Westover is in Chicopee not Sptingfield.

[@scaramonga]

Why?

[@patricktack165]

I swear there was a mechanic onboard also. ATI is the reason non essential crew are not allowed on a 3 engine ferry

[@richbrake9910]

We're Gunnar go!

[@BrianAdams-dt1ks]

Bummer ending. I figured all along they were gonna make it. But I think we see why they didn't work as crew for hauling passengers.

[@susiearviso3032]

As much as I flew, at some point I started thinking about the possibility of an eventual plane crash. I also avidly watched Air Crash Investigations. Then I decided not to fly anymore.

[@fubarmodelyard1392]

I like how you end the videos with the aircraft flying majestically as if nothing happened

[@adotintheshark4848]

The pilots did not know how to do an engine-out takeoff! Unbelievable.

[@ThatGirl-ku5dq]

The company should never permitted this flight.

[@kellyg1019]

I"m born and raised in KC, I don't remember anything about a fatal airliner crash here. that's odd