Three reason why the iOptron HEM27 is better than ZWOs AM5.

[@mschmalenbach]

Nice - this is one of the reasons I love both my CEM mounts. I learned earlier today that the strainwave drive used in the AM5 is the same used in the HEM27 - they come from the same 3rd party manufacturer. I need to replace the lubricant on my CEM26 - it has the stock factory applied lube and it has now gone bad - humidity and cold did it in. But my CEM40 is giving me around 0.45" rms guided without issue, out of the box.

[@JTAstro]

So it sounds like the AM5 is really an iOptron...OOOOhhh :) don't let those die hard ZWO guys hear that hahaha

[@mschmalenbach]

@@JTAstro Shhh!!!

[@JTAstro]

@@mschmalenbach Mums the word 🤣

[@rezamohammadij]

very good comparison. I enjoyed it, please let me know what is your proof which am5 is made by ioptron.

[@JTAstro]

I was saying that ZWO should have worked with iOptron to make the mount and it would have been better. Just like ZWO choose to not make their own telescopes and instead had Askar make them.

[@nikaxstrophotography]

Apart from cable management and a few other minor issues you haven't commented on performance, which of these mounts perform better overall?

[@JTAstro]

All the logs are on my website in the description. Most nights my RMS is lower than my buddies that use the AM5 and I get better guiding at longer focal lengths than they are using. This mount owns!

[@nikaxstrophotography]

@@JTAstro so you actually. Haven’t tested one yet make a comparison based on your friends experiences? Mate that’s hardly scientific. However all that aside I do like the look of this mount and maybe making this a purchase instead of the ZWO

[@JTAstro]

@@nikaxstrophotography I have done a full post on it joeytroy.com/ioptron-hem27-vs-zwo-am5/

[@nikaxstrophotography]

@@JTAstro Thanks that was helpful you could have mentioned it in the video as I wasnt even aware you have a website

[@JTAstro]

@@nikaxstrophotography In fairness I did mention links in the description and on my 7 month review blog post it has a link to my first review I did on the HEM27

[@slmdaddy1]

I will call it as I see it.. no issue with power ports on AM5 I run it up ASI AIR. Works for me no issue. I like how it all connects with ZWO eco system. plug and play simple to set up and use.. A friend of mine has HE27 and he is happy with his. I dont see either as deal breaker. thats all I got to say..

[@JTAstro]

Fair, the AM5 is not a bad mount just could have been engineered better IMHO.

[@grandmasteryoda9893]

zwo is good as long it work. they more or less dont have quality control at all. its so bad a buyer had 2! AM5 die. as they say" as long as you get a good one".

[@lavers_1]

nice vid! Is 3 amps on the output of the mount enough to power all that up top? What about guiding if you don't own a Dou? How do you connect to the ASIAIR without using the usb from the hand controller the ASIAIR? sorry for all the questions... just got a hem 27.

[@JTAstro]

It's enough to run everything up top from the Pro and Plus as I have used both coming of the dec head power. With the MT-3000 I'm connected in via network and connecting the HEM27 to the MT-3000. Without it you can set up station mode in the AIR and connect to the mount via WiFi you can snag the port number from the hand controller and check out my wifi video in the description. Guiding has been incredible you can use a guide scope or the OAG. Best of luck!

[@Jazzinthecountry]

I just found out that my CGEM'S counterweight shaft fits it. Now Im good to go with my C9.25, too. I haven't had it out yet, but it sure looks sweet all rigged up.

[@JTAstro]

Yeah I have the Edge HD8 but yeah it's a guiding machine at 2032mm for Astro!

[@southbronxny5727]

I thought you were going to say it tracks better than the AM5 which is mounts true value to me. My am5 normally tracks between .25-.5 with a 25lbs load without a counterweight, how does your track? Nevertheless, It depends on the needs of the individuals power requirements because the iOptron nor the am5 could never power my whole setup. Your friend probably had poor cable management which probably caused his accident. It's nice that your mount could spin like that but unrealistic unless you forgot one day and let it track all day but am5 can set limits to its range of motion to prevent full spins like that. Thanks for your opinion.

[@JTAstro]

Both the AM5 and HEM27 track to spec. My RMS has been amazing but to me that is not the whole picture when spending our hard earned money on this hobby. My concerns with the AM5 are it is poorly engineered and ZWO didn't take into account power, or cables when designing this especially when they are the creator of the ASIAIR and so many accessories (Cameras, EAF EFW, etc). I'm glad to hear you're not having any issues with yours 👍 Clear skies!

[@franks2725]

Glad to know you are having success using the 3A power connection of the HEM27, but I find it to be a limiting factor in my setup and don't use it. To start, I'm not a fan of the ASI Air, preferring NINA, and I don't trust 3A to cover the camera (when cooling) plus dew heaters plus a computer. I also wish they used USB3 instead of USB2 in the saddle, as perhaps that would've allowed me to take advantage of that cable bypass. As a consequence, I use a Pegasus power box and end up dangling the cables (power and USB) off the back end. It works, and I'm happy with the tracking performance (which is somewhere in the neighborhood of .5, but I don't document that; if my stars are round and tight, and they are, then all's good whatever that number is). Overall, I'm happy with the HEM27, as it's super easy to set-up and just works (it carries an Askar FRA300). Alternately, for my larger scope, I've always fought with my G-11, finally giving up on it and replacing it with an iOptron HAE43 (ironically, its cabling is off the front, and while it has a 'through-the-mount' option, it doesn't really fit two cables, strangely, so I also have to dangle off the back). It seems there is never a perfect mount, short of spending $15k on a Mach2, which isn't going to happen. Clear skies!

[@JTAstro]

The ASIAIR does everything I need, however I know it can be limiting in terms of hardware support and why I created www.openastro.net/. I am currently working on another video/blog for using INDIGO Sky on the ASIAIR hardware which is rather enticing as it has some slick software to control your gear and also supports APT & PHD2 if you want other apps. I have also gotten NINA to work from the ASIAIR as well kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5LEipWNf8eLetU. It's not perfect like a NUC/PC of course due to the limitations of the 1.8Ghz processor on the RPi4 but I still think it's usable to an extent and will test again when my RPi5 arrives some day. Finally, like you, I am not paying no $15K for a mount lol. Clear Skies!

[@franks2725]

I believe I have watched that video (thanks!); it's certainly an interesting possibility. I imagine the Air will soon be just as effective as NINA, for my workflow, but in the meantime, it's relegated to a backup (I've also had issues with it liking my Canon 6D, and while I'm sure there's a fix, it's tough to troubleshoot when my imaging time is so precious). @@JTAstro

[@JTAstro]

​@@franks2725 I get that with the time and messing with gear. I normally do more silly stuff during the full moon and mess with little projects but when its serious work I always fall back to the ASIAIR. Never had a problem with it but also using the whole ZWO family as well. Hopefully Ill get closer to a solid solution with the ASIAIR that is more open hardware in time for other users that is also as simplistic as the ASIAIR.

[@Masoch1st]

the mount has 0 issues powering the asiair, dew heaters, and cooled cameras at the same time. i do it on my cem26 without any issues. thats literally what its designed for.

[@franks2725]

@@Masoch1st Glad it works for you. The main driver of my comment here is that the mount is USB2, when my cameras are all USB3. In the process of sorting solutions to that, with my preference for NINA, I decided to use a Pegasus Power Box. It wants 10 amps, so I asked Pegasus and they weren’t exactly supportive of powering it with only 3a (“try it and see if it works, but…”), which is the reason I noted that ‘limiter’ to the mount. Again, I love the idea of not having cables dangling, and the mount design has that potential. If I were a fan of the Air, things might be different. FWIW, ZWO cameras say they can use 3a, but the power supply they sell is rated 5a. Taken together, perhaps just another example of where this hobby isn’t always the easiest to navigate. Clear skies! (they haven't been lately)

[@richarduk679]

What about balancing the telescope? How does the iOptron differ there?

[@JTAstro]

With the HEM27 you need to balance in DEC but not in RA.

[@larryfine4719]

Those 3 points aren't an issue for me, but I guess the rear cable mounting would be the nicest as far as the power cable goes and make things a little tidier. But definitely not a deal breaker as it is for yourself. And all my power connections come from the power supply direct, nothing goes through some other device.

[@JTAstro]

As long as you can capture light above that is all that matters. Just more concerned about my investment and surprised ZWO didn't do a better job engineering it to make sure pulled cables don't happen.

[@VisionCommunications]

The title would more properly be, “iOptron HEM27 is better (for me) than AM5”

[@JTAstro]

No no it's the better mount 🤣

[@KJRitch]

I've been looking for a replacement for my AVX mount which carries my C8 SCT. With my image train it's about 19lbs. The image train consists of Starizona focal reducer, Celestron OAG, ASI174MM Pro, guide camera , ZWO filter drawer and ASI071MC Pro, I looked at you logs and while the guiding results were good for your refractor the couple for your C8 where well over 1" . I'm thinking strain wave mount are not suitable for anyone over 1000mm due to the PE. I'm thinking I'm going to have to look at a CEM40 instead.

[@JTAstro]

You are probably thinking right. While the EdgeHD 8 works on the HEM27 my guiding has not been amazing like smaller focal ratios. One thing to note is I am still learning the HD8 and collimation has bean a bear for me which also means if it's not dialed my ZWO AOG is not dialed in. Since the weather has not been kind around quarter and new moon I have not been out since early January so I have not been doing much in terms of Astro. Best of luck and clear skies!

[@anacal8871]

Hello!. Excuse my English😢😢😢. I want to buy the ioptron HEA29. I have a zwo asiair. How have you made the Asiair work well with the mount? Thank you very much 😊.

[@JTAstro]

It should work fine with the HEA29. I personally have not used that mount but it should be supported by ASIAIR.

[@miketronix]

Are there telescopes really not there’s? What about the pending patent that they mention on there website, could be that of Askar patent instead of zwo?

[@JTAstro]

Must be, but yeah they are Askar unless ZWO is buying Askar which could be possible.

[@mikebennett2015]

My HEM27 has a stop on the Dec axis so it won’t swing all the way round like yours. Is your new mount the same?

[@JTAstro]

It's the same mount check the description for my blog post there is a full review and images on how to remove the screw under the dec head.

[@mikebennett2015]

Thanks. I didn’t realise you had removed the screw. I won’t be doing that as it allows the wires in the mount to get very twisted.

[@JTAstro]

@@mikebennett2015 they don't get twisted if you take it apart they just spin and spin. I took off the screw as the ASIAIR software was moving the mount to the left and not right and was smacking the screw when trying to image Rho Ophiuchi in the southern skies. It's not a good sound to hear with the gears grinding.

[@mikebennett2015]

I’ll have to take a closer look. They must have fitted slip rings if it can just spin.

[@JTAstro]

@@mikebennett2015 that's what I saw when I took off the DEC head.

[@AstroPixUK]

Do you need to balance the dec as it has a clutch?

[@JTAstro]

Correct you do need to balance in DEC. There is a whole process in the manual on page 16. Just Google HEM27 manual.

[@grandmasteryoda9893]

So how will hem 15 compare?

[@JTAstro]

Not sure. One thing off the bat is the mount doesn't offer power off the DEC saddle which is a big fat bummer.

[@jimaudette445]

When you spin your telescope around like that, I hope you realize there is just a bundle of thin wires that goes up to that head. And every 360 rotation puts another another twist into that bundle of wire. And if you have a tendency to rotate that scope in the same direction you'll eventually break the wires inside the mount.

[@JTAstro]

100% but point made...

[@miketaivalmaa1530]

Love my AM5 you do you

[@JTAstro]

Nothing wrong with the AM5 it does work, just not perfect. Simply be careful with those cables and your expensive gear up top 😲

[@rockmusicvideoreviewer896]

your camera is to of control. it won't keep focus and it won't keep exposure. I always just keep it all in full manual.

[@yvesvandenbroek6055]

Zo the AM5 has way better polar alignment knobs (on the iOptron you need an small wrench, that you drop and never find and when it’s cold good luck), you polar align the AM5 with ASIAIR in minutes. But more importantly the guiding analyzes done by another reviewer show that the AM5 is quicker and more accurate than the iOptron … Yeah the power thing could be better, but if you are a pro that is not really an issue, we had cable spaghetti for years, so one cable is not that hard to manage (ps when you showed your power connector, that 12v cigarette connector, really??!!). If I’m informed correctly the DEC of the iOptron is traditionally geared ??!! So old tech on the Worm + belt … that will be interesting how that will hold up, and also explains the slower / more spiky behaviour in corrections.

[@JTAstro]

The knobs on the AM5 are slick for sure, I won't deny that. In terms of guiding it doesn't matter to me. I can guide under 1 arc second at 250mm, 404mm, 1422mm, and 2032mm without issue with all my different scopes and focal reducers I own. In terms of the worm gear, we know it holds up as it's been in use for every other equatorial mount on the planet and they are also much cheaper to produce. The really interesting thing will be how well all our strain wave gears will hold up over time and if we have all been caught off guard by the marketing hype :)

[@timothya1956]

Is this video a joke? How can you compare two mounts without showing actual tracking and guiding performance? I can only assume that you haven't used a ZWO mount (since other reviewers routinely report that the AM5 performance is superior. But, naturally, a mount that uses a ring-and-worm drive for the DEC axis must be better. Oh, and by the way, explain how the iOptron arrangement for changing from Vixen to Losmandy bars is something you would want to praise.

[@JTAstro]

Tim, I have full details in the description with guiding for 7 months that I have owned the mount. Again I gave my three reasons why it's a failed mount 1. Lack of power ports 2. Hand controller 3. Cables that pull your gear. Never said it doesn't perform well for guiding, sure it does, but the other glaring issues are too much to overlook IMHO.

[@timothya1956]

Yup. Seven months worth of ​guiding of the iOptron HEM27 - but where is your data showing that the iOptron27 mount performs better than either the ZWO AM5 OR the Rainbow or Pegasus or any other comparable mount. It just seems you are making this stuff up. Even when you can get your camera to focus. Pffffft.

[@JTAstro]

@@timothya1956 😂 Tim never said anything about guiding...watch the video. There are 3 glaring issues and why I believe the HEM27 is better than the AM5 . Each one of those mounts you mentioned guides perfectly fine to spec. Don't care about guiding, care about the overall engineering and usability of the mount and keeping my equipment safe.

[@EthanJohnston-eg9si]

Def not a lie.. 2nd week into my AM5 shooting flats in my living room.. I fell asleep on my couch as it was happening and frgot to turn off m-flip.... I wake up to the sounds of CHHChkckkckKKSKKSKKSKKkkkk... Yep cables got snagged. Power jack broke off halfway into the AM5. Luckily it was only 150 to have repaired.. regardless ended up picking up the HAE69CEC... Bye bye AM5. lol.

[@JTAstro]

Ouch! Sorry to hear that, again it does work but it's poorly engineered for sure!

[@terreldodd794]

iOptron doesn't manufacturer their telescopes either.

[@JTAstro]

Actually that is not completely true, they manufacture their higher end mounts in the states, the lower end mounts are manufactured overseas.

[@None-ss1zi]

Ok, it's not a video about computer parts

[@JTAstro]

Not quite 🤣it's easy for hits about AMD and AM5 to show up together.

[@gazza9839]

Ouch, don't spin it around like that too much, the cables run through the centre and if you do that enough they will strain or break ! I love my HEM27 🙂

[@JTAstro]

The cables don't bind up inside the HEM27 they built it right so they can rotate without binding. You know well engineered from top to bottom!

[@mschmalenbach]

Having disassembled my CEM40 which does the same thing as the HEM27 I can attest that there is plenty of slack in those cables inside the saddle or deck head. And nowhere for them to bind or snag. The CEM40 doesn’t use a clutch mechanism in either axis so when disengaged the saddle is extremely free to move, which makes it very sensitive for balancing the payload. A PITA for some folks. For me it means excellent guiding:

[@JTAstro]

@@mschmalenbach a testament to the quality of mounts that iOptron is putting out!

[@lavers_1]

so we can be spinners now with HEM! how many spins? @@mschmalenbach

[@simonpepper5053]

I wouldn’t buy an AM5. Massively overpriced and will wobble if I farted on it. If I wanted lightweight I would by a sky guider for 10% of the price, but I don’t need to travel for AP so I prefer my eq6 and eq8

[@JTAstro]

😂 the fart wobble 😂 yeah Skywatcher builds a solid mount! I was going to go that route as I started with the EQM-35 but I am a remote imager so rolled to the GEM28 and then moved to the HEM27 to save more weight on the mount.

[@simplerichs9417]

I'm also planing to swap my GEM28 for the HEM27! For payloads of 10 pounds, do you find it tracks more accurately than de GEM? THanks! @@JTAstro

[@JTAstro]

@@simplerichs9417 It does big time. Of course I think my GEM28 had issues as guiding was never amazing but it was always with in spec. Once I moved to the HEM27 it was lights out on guiding with rates as low as 0.3 on RMS using the RedCat and as low as 0.5 RMS when using the EdgeHD 8 with 0.7x reducer @ 1400mm! Here is my break down of the HEM27 and AM5 I also mention the GEM28 allowed me to drop 28lbs of weight as it's lighter. If you are only using 10 pounds of gear you probably can just get away with running the carbon fiber tripod to even save more weight. To me it's a big deal as I travel 15 miles to my Astronomy clubs private observatory which is Bortles 3, if I am in backyard I am Bortles 4-5. joeytroy.com/ioptron-hem27-vs-zwo-am5/ also here is the logs for 7 months on the HEM27 joeytroy.com/HEM27%20PHD2%20Logs.zip you can read them with openphdguiding.org/phd2-log-viewer/ if you have never done that before, no assumptions here :)

[@ciskje71]

Please buy a microphone, or use a Phone with Irium Webcam.

[@JTAstro]

I'm actually using a Sony ZV-E10 and Rode Mic II.

[@ciskje71]

@@JTAstro maybe the fan that give a strange background noise?

[@JTAstro]

​@@ciskje71thanks for the comments I'll remember that next time 👍

[@ciskje71]

@@JTAstro I heard the whole video, when you lift the camera the background noise disappears, it could be something that transmits vibration to the table where it is resting. In any case thank you for the two points highlighted, however cable management is necessary to always do it to avoid surprises, however essentially the key point is tracking accuracy , have you made any tests to see if I get much below the classic arc second?

[@JTAstro]

Check out the link in the description. I have all the data of my run against the AM5 including the 7 months of all my runs with the HEM27. I think the fan in the room is causing issues. I'll do some testing to resolve the audio for my next video.

[@Alex_Mastino]

that's not a comparaison.... that only because you bought an ioption.... make comparaison A to Z before saying this one is better than an am5 (including guiding etc...). futher more, you just give a poor image of your chanel and capabilities with this.

[@JTAstro]

lmao! You didn't even watch the video, or check the description. I have a run against the AM5, and included 7 months of data as well it's all on my website joeytroy.com/

[@Alex_Mastino]

@@JTAstro I've read all your tests on your website and just look at you phd2 log, you got a true answer at your test just with them... no cyclic periodic error on the hem27, pulse correction are x2 comparing at am5 etc.... sorry for you for saying facts :/

[@JTAstro]

@@Alex_Mastino In terms of the PEC, ASIAIR does not support it so I don't have it enabled. Also pulse corrections being x2 more than the AM5 does not make the AM5 the better mount. Again my beef with the AM5 is the Power ports causing pulled cables and damaging gear, not enough power to run gear off the AM5, and the Nintendo Wii hand control. Those items alone make the HEM27 the far superior mount IMHO.

[@Alex_Mastino]

@@JTAstro Lol, believe what you want, no periodic error = poor mecanical part/assembly not more, not less, Believe in your dream, there is just to analyse all your parameters to understand how you practice astrophoto. Have pleasure in your hobby, but don't expect to realise exeptionnal, is just not possible with you approach/using/analysing. I'm not here to have conflict, I've said what I have to said for your interest, you are just in a cognitive dissonance, so.... bye bye :)

[@JTAstro]

@@Alex_Mastino The HEM27 does support periodic error correction however since I image with ASIAIR software that software does not support the use of PEC so I can not use it. Again the video was about the poor build quality of the AM5 not PEC, not even guiding 🤣I know the AM5 does a fine job with guiding. It comes down to design issues with power cables getting pulled, lack or power from the mount, and the hand controller and why I believe the HEM27 is the better mount. Also I have no mental discomfort with the conversation just stating actual points. Be well Alexandre and clear skies 👍

[@reefingaround4435]

Strange guy!

[@JTAstro]

I think it's fair to call us all a little strange. We wait and wait for the perfect clear day and run outside to set up and image the skies. And we are not even taking pictures of objects as they are right now but how they looked millions of years ago.