Throne Combat Garbage? Early vs Late Game

[@KanonXO]

Streaming Throne NOW @ twitch.tv/kanonxo - COME

[@aspectjosh]

so asmongold complained about the combat and how bad it is plus it feels clunky however after seeing this video i strongly disagree with his take and urs the fact that you stated you agree that the combat should be fun at the start I'm telling you if you think about it you not going to do big damage at the start you got to gear up and level up to do big damage if you not leveling up ur items you going to preform poorly think of it as like solo leveling. you not gonna be good at the start only after 10hrs would u be stronger asmon only played 2hrs and quite cuz combat not fun me personally combat is clunky and the damage is lackluster however if i got better gear it wont be as bad as it look during battle plus story is great and the design is great it is a good game and lets be real they going to fix this at launch it well play smoothly they will listen to ur feedback however am enjoying the game and only had 2 complainants but never about the combat if anything i need better sword to deal better damage so ya that is my thoughts (overall good video keep it up i enjoy it)

[@rabbibunga7492]

@@KanonXO pretty sure asmongold complained before it was revamped

[@sciencethygod]

The speed of the combat isn't an issue, it's the lack of impact and feedback and how floaty it feels.

[@Izaldur]

Exactly

[@ajjames1960]

are u in the mid game or late game if not tf 😂 early game is always clunky and not smooth not until u unlock all things u need to unlock especially all the combo thata where thing start to make sense but if u are saying this and u just tried the beta then please u need some milk 😂

[@sciencethygod]

@@ajjames1960 what I'm talking about has nothing to do with what part of the game you are at... please read and understand what I said before sheepishly droning off.

[@Oryyyt]

fr. This is why I love slow and weighty combat of soulslikes and some of the hard hitting classes like Drakania in BDO. They're just so satisfying. I wish more MMOs focused on satisfying hit feedback and crunchy sound designs.

[@rabbibunga7492]

What PvP mmo does it good so we can have a clear picture

[@zaigen1990]

look man, i gotta say, essentially you just pressed all ur damage buttons and put everything on cd. then u sit and auto for 10-20seconds. theres no engaging moments, no connecting rotations. just spam ur skills, then wackamole whats up. THATS the issue

[@michaelsoto3968]

💯

[@magitz9108]

Just like any other MMO lol

[@laylen245]

@@magitz9108 ummm NO! you go do that in wow and let see you get pass 1400 MMR

[@reptilianoverlord7627]

A lot of the new addons, reduce the cooldowns and give multiple skills the ability to move while casting and having stackable uses. the new combat system makes it even better imo.

[@FXooE]

@@laylen245 wow ...? wow it's the same thing, they sold you lies you just have to realize, the best mmo pvp are the ones in which there is not so much deception in the rotation of your bar, but look at helbreath and so on... you lack the field baby, the topic can be boring of the "white" hits and their characteristic sound, but it doesn't matter, all the games have it like Elden Ring, if it can be because of so little content and world that you become super PRO and end up leaving the game.

[@fxdxn]

This comparison looks like that "corporate wants you to find the difference" meme LOL

[@MoistYoghurt]

LMAO

[@n91312]

Early game actually looks better for spme reason 💀

[@JordanIdk]

Looks like you just burn your abilities faster and then auto attack, awesome.

[@warr39]

For another comparison, Aion the tower of eternity launched in 2008 by same company, ncsoft, had better feeling combat at level 15 than than throne and liberty at level 45

[@aisu9540]

Bruh I agree with this , I am a big mmo pvp player and I think Aion is miles smoother than Throne. I don't know what happened to NCSoft but they could've just copied aion and put better graphics in it , it would've been much better.

[@hemawemaful]

It doesn't have as many players on the same instance in a pvp as well, being rooted or skills that are low on mobility, lowest the calculation burden on the servers this allows a larger amount of players to persist in the same instance

[@sciencethygod]

Same publisher, different developer

[@MrZeroSeventy]

@@sciencethygod Same developer... Aion was developed by NCSoft and so is Throne and Liberty. Publisher is something else that you seem to be mixing up here.

[@sciencethygod]

@@MrZeroSeventy not mixing something up, just doubled checked and they're both developed and published by NCsoft, pretty rare occurrence imo. End of the day though, the actual development team members are completely different, can't expect much. TL went though development hell, started off as an isometric Arpg then a shitty mobile/pc mmorpg and this is the salvaged backlash from that.

[@Jinir]

BDO has ruined me, this game puts me straight to sleep. Even looking at end game videos. Idk

[@brooklyntaylor5935]

Agreed. BDO's combat has yet be beat sadly.

[@derhenker1799]

BDO is a 10 yo game... and still, nothing came even CLOSE to it. Joke. And looking at things and other games, this wont change in the next 10 years either. I mean look at MR wE wIlL sAvE tHe MmO gEnRe Ashes of creation. That combat system is a joke too.

[@nekokinds]

i rotate around bdo, wow and osrs. so i'm not a stranger or at all opposed to tab targeting or slow combat, but TnL's combat is miserable to me. a lot of little things come together to make it feel bad, like weightless/floaty animations and sounds. the melee range fucking sucks too

[@Jinir]

@@nekokinds agreed, feel like i'm playing FF14 or some shit. Straight sleep zzzz

[@nekokinds]

@@Jinir i'm okay with ff14 combat too, but yeah this is still quite a bit below that imo. it's even worse than previous ncsoft games which is like.. how?

[@miltonpitts4185]

Bro…if combat has to wait until endgame to feel good then it’s a bad system period. I don’t have to wait for endgame in FF or GW2 to feel good with baseline combat. Like stop capping for trash

[@ronniejones3910]

My biggest issue is that many skills lock you in place which feels awful and over it just feels SUPER clunky and unintuitive.

[@rabbibunga7492]

What weapon does that because the bow dagger and crossbow don’t really have that problem

[@dorian763]

@@rabbibunga7492 fr i dont know what ppl talk abt

[@scxpticplaya2098]

@@rabbibunga7492 For a LONGBOW the spell cast range is laughable

[@rabbibunga7492]

@@scxpticplaya2098 laughable💀 it’s around same range as most MMO’s it just looks like it’s not far cause it’s zoomed out

[@rabbibunga7492]

@@scxpticplaya2098 if it has to much range it’s now unbalanced

[@Paolini_18]

They removed the autobattle option without overhauling the whole combat system, that's just being lazy

[@scolamiero28]

this right here man

[@n91312]

That's crazy, autobattle is literally fine in these old school MMOs. People that complained about autobattle ruined the game

[@TheDynamikeWolfShow]

I would rather not have an auto battle in this game. I prefer hands-on. If they add it, then players need to have the option to toggle it off. If not, that makes a bad gaming experience for me

[@isMiIes]

Speeding up the rotation won't make combat any better if I then have to stare the screen for 8 seconds doing nothing but AAs. BDO and Lost Ark are in my opinion the pinnacle of MMO combat and they are quite different in their own way. I also enjoy FF14 or WoW GCDs and tab target system, it feels polished and impactful when trying to play efficiently. TL is just a bad joke...

[@MrTrun4o]

Endgame looks a bit faster animation wise, but otherwise it looks exactly the same? I can't really say i see any real difference. in both clips you press 3-4-5-6-7-8-9 and your character do exactly the same skills but faster. In comparison looks low level ret paladin in retail WOW vs max level paladin, you can see there is tons of procks and obvious gameplay difference. Non of this exist in Throne and Liberty from what i can tell. so it looks like endgame gameplay is pretty much the same.

[@abominacja47]

Combat is great if this game would be a tower defense :)

[@derhenker1799]

Its bad both early and endgame. Its a literal joke. Mid 2k MMO's had this level of combat. In 2024 coming out with something like this is literally a crime, a joke.

[@leroi804]

To be honest, doesn't look that much better to justify the amount of pain and clunkiness you have to go through to get to the "endgame-combat" just to have a minimal better combat which is still clunky and dogshit xD

[@MONSTERCRUSHER2000]

New ability custimisation that is announced today on kr makes a lot of abilities look extremely good, meaning better animation, better quality and overall a lot cooler look. We wont have it this beta sadly but we will on release

[@MONSTERCRUSHER2000]

Also makes certain abilties like fb cast now be able to move while casting and a lot more aoe abilities.

[@MONSTERCRUSHER2000]

So how they work and look is completely different

[@leroi804]

@@MONSTERCRUSHER2000 well, the damage is already done. People will judge based on this beta and it doesn't look good for the game.

[@MONSTERCRUSHER2000]

@@leroi804 ye ig, but since its f2p im guessing we will still have quite a bit of players playing atleast for the first couple years i hope knowing how many good updates are coming.

[@mateukole5660]

The movement slowdown and forced backpedalling once you attack something gotta go. It serves no purpose other than slowing down the game and removing movement as an outplay mechanic.

[@DragoNicta]

Dont think the issue is animation/attack speed tbh, most new players did play/are from wow so what's annoying with this combat system is having a lot of downtime where u dont have anything to press for 6-8s, like based on your video even in end game you'll have a lot of downtime where the only thing u can do is auto attacking waiting for your cooldown, (i know some weap have interactions with some cd reduction like the xbow "filler" but it wont very change this) the difference with BDO & Lost ark, is you need to press LMB/RMB to land your "auto attack" so even with "downtime phase" the combat system feels interactive cause you always need to press something on these 2 to feel impactful i'm not saying thats its bad, it has his own playstyle so you either like it or nop

[@dimoronen]

I don't come from WoW but I have the same opinion. I would like to see some more spammable skills you put in between as fillers basically. Right now it feels like you build your one combo that you just launch into the enemy then you just wait for cooldowns and redo it again.

[@scolamiero28]

the animation locking is awful , and for that alone im out, its clear to me they just chopped up the auto battler animations and put keys on them , issue lies with the locking in animation , games like BDO also have animation locks , for each one though is an unlock ability or cancel , this game feels really bad to play in the current year

[@dimoronen]

@@scolamiero28 Honestly I don't mind that at all or even prefer it. Feels like if you wanna use an ability you can't just jump around while doing so but have to commit. I guess as you said though they could have figured out more canceling abilities.

[@scolamiero28]

@@dimoronen yes just a personal preferance for me , in pvp i dont like being locked down for an animation

[@rabbibunga7492]

Don’t compare action MMO’s to tab target ones compare TL to other tab target MMO’s like ESO GW2 and WOW stop looking for reason to hate

[@scolamiero28]

"range" in this game means 10 yds away from your character , more than that is out of range

[@SkyLimitTheory]

I was super disappointed in how short range even the longbow was during the beta, and then the dual crossbow was basically melee-range...

[@YonexCC]

Not a huge difference. Those differences are that the left side seems to be a bit faster in animation and looks more fluid-like. Then again, with sped up skill animations of course it will feel more fluid. This is one of my biggest mehs about the game. When it comes to MMOs, I'm all about skill visuals and it's usually the #1 thing that will get me hooked (a reason why I was on BDO for 7+ years in addition to the PVE and NW of course). This game looks stunning and beautiful, nearly everything about it, EXCEPT the skill visuals/combat. The only except I would say is that staff skills are pretty cool looking, dagger as well but all other weapons fall short. I feel like they were trying to have the play focus more on a large scale setting (particularly PvP) as well as viewing of the environment more than the actual skill/classes themselves. You can easily figure this out simply by the camera and how far zoomed out it is and the size of the character.

[@ОлегЖученко-ш4м]

For combat to become good and actually playable, you need to gear up in full T2? If so - dead game. Gearing will take months, and playing this clunky is not the way game should be. Players should enjoy the game and it's combat system from level 1, if not - bad design. Simple as that

[@Dexterity07]

the combat would be fine is this was released in 2010, we are in 2024 we are used to fast combat, idk why they made the combat this way, it's just worse, no need to reinvent the old wheel.

[@rabbibunga7492]

If that’s the case MMO’s aren’t for you evey mmo that’s doing good is tab target if you don’t want that don’t play mmo’s

[@Freazerr]

@@rabbibunga7492 Such a horrible take. The problem isn't that the only MMOS that are doing good are tab target mmos. The problem is most MMOS that are doing good are already established games, WOW, FF14 which are tab target. However we also got games like BDO, ESO which are Action orintated. Even games like GW2 which are a mix of both still strive to this day. Saying tab target MMOS are the only ones that do good is stupid.

[@rabbibunga7492]

@@Freazerr first of all there is a reason they are still striving because they do everything else good bdo only thing they got going for them is combat also someone said 2010 it’s acceptable meanwhile all the old tab target games are the ones doing the best so that mean tab target is not a reason for a game to be bad it’s just a reason you may nou like it it’s called a pretence

[@zeqiem]

You used 6 spells, it felt and looked like you used 1 chained spell, not 6.

[@themademperorgr]

Environment 10/10 Sound/music 10/10 Voice localisation 8/10 Combat feel/responsiveness/animations 3/10 Camera feel/responsiveness 2/10 How the f can a game combat feel so much worse than wow classic is mind blowing. Imagine I hate bdo combat I just wanted to feel like wow classic as a bare minimum. Playing rogue in wow classic 10/10 Playing greatsword/daggers in TL 1/10

[@tokestarlive8394]

if anyone think lvl 45 combat looks any different or feels any better it doesnt

[@shinei6922]

I picked Xbow/dagger because people told me it was highest APM and it would make me "HURT my fingers" but idk if everyone is 80 years old with bone issues or wtf cuz i could take naps in between my skilld

[@Alexurone]

The game's combat feels clunky all throughout, not just at the beginning. There are way too many keys and skills to use all over the keyboard, which do not even flow well with the movement.

[@NoifPeck]

One more whiner, have u ever played other mmos? Gw2?u Need 30 buttons get a damn MMO mouse

[@joannevebby]

Yeah idk how you're supposed to move around with WASD + press the whole number row above to use skills. Terrible decision. I'd rather have it be like Lineage 2 where you move with your mouse and use abilities freely with your other hand, than what TL has done.

[@Alexurone]

@NoifPeck i have played plenty mmos throughout 20+ years...be smarter than to call someone a whiner because they have an opinion different from yours. To me, the combat is stale, boring and clunky. It feels like it was meant to be played by pressing 3 buttons on a mobile device that would cast 1 skill after the other, and now forces itself to be something it wasnt supposed to be. Silkroad online, rohan online had standstill pvp and it wasnt this stale and clunky.

[@abione-y5x]

@@NoifPeck shill detected

[@danielcheng769]

​@@joannevebbyu have that option, just enable left click to move

[@GensUnaSumus09]

I've played BDO, GW2, Tera, B&S, WoW, FF14, etc. so I have experience with both "action combat" PvP and more classical combat systems. People have to realize that PvP combat has two aspects: A) How it feels and looks and visual impact: BDO is one of the best (if not the best) MMOs in this regard. B) How the PvP system is designed: Class balance, gear balance, build diversity, skill trees, skill mechanics, etc. GW2 is the best MMO I've played in terms of PvP design. BDO sucks when it comes to PvP design. The devs are painting themselves into a corner due to power creep, uncapped gear limits, and constant introduction of new classes. GW2 is much more well thought-out. It doesn't have the visual impact or dynamics of BDO combat, but if try to spam skills you'll end up dead pretty quickly if your opponent knows what he's doing. In BDO you can get away with far more spamming, due to s, lack of proper counters, lack of damage reflection, etc. Did I also mention there's no way to get rid of debuffs? (in GW2 you can cleanse conditions). And if your opponent has 50 GS lower than you? You'll need to be half asleep to lose the fight, since you're basically gear-checking your opponent. The uncapped PvP system makes endgame players like gods compared to lower geared players. You could argue that BDO has capped/normalized PvP content to make things more balanced, but that's where another issue comes into play: It encourages players to upgrade their gear (which can be a long, expensive and frustrating process, everyone who has failed to enhance expensive PEN gear know what I mean), but the gear can't be used in most competitive scenarios, because of caps. Uncapped NW is so bad now that players prefer capped NWs. I could go on and on about how bad the PvP system in BDO is designed, but I'll stop there. I think many BDO PvP players would agree that the combat looks and feels great, but the underlying PvP system itself has seen far better days. So my point is: For me large scale combat and the PvP design are more important than how the combat feels and looks. T&L reminds me of GW2 combat in many ways, not to mention the large scale PvP (WvW, but on a larger scale). I look forward to testing out the game on release. I've done some testing during open beta, but the real test will be when the game is released.

[@PiousSlayer]

BDO was essentially who could get their CC off successfully first wins, especially with the classes that had a metric crap ton of CC. That was my biggest gripe with BDO (except for the progression system being heavily P2W/P2A(Pay 2 Advance) at launch, I don't know if its changed since then.

[@pdgserafin4059]

After playing for a while I said to myself: this is it???? Where are the animations? Everything looks like basic attacks, clumsy, bad looking, slow. I had 10x smoother and better combat in Aion, and this game is soon 20 years old. Plus the camera, after a minute of playing I had to set the sensitivity to max and its still clumsy and slow.

[@xStreatz]

So true!

[@FXooE]

Aion is complicated for nothing ... and bored

[@taylorerwin8864]

Tried it last night. Not for me. Kinda felt it should be a mobile game, maybe they will port it. the overall design of the game is mid. Combat is low.

[@jurgenern5395]

i tried out TL. iam not impressed about combat system

[@warzy01]

Its fun...

[@ridemtb82]

Same played for 3 hours then quickly deleted. Feels like a mobile game.

[@andrasylvan9915]

@@ridemtb82 womp womp

[@rabbibunga7492]

You shouldn’t play it only for combat

[@rabbibunga7492]

@@ridemtb82you downloaded it ready to hate

[@Adartaer]

I'm playing MMORPG Games for 19 years, I have played probably every game that has been released. I will write something what I wrote long before the Open Beta Tests. (What I predicted and what we can now observe when people finally experience the game for themselves) No one listened to me before, because many people have not played the game before Open Beta and they get their knowledge about the game from KZbin Videos or Streams, simply because they don't want to play before EU release or they don't know how to test the game on Korean servers, so the EU Premiere/Open Beta is their first contact with this game, that's why I wanted to share with you with something that I keep thinking about from Korean release in December 2023. As I mentioned earlier, I have played many games, but this is the first time I have encountered such a strange "Camera/Aiming/Character Movement Control". In most MMORPG Games, the camera is usually "stick" to the "player character back" but not in Throne and Liberty, that causes that you have to correct/rotate the camera manually all the time. I think that this is probably a remnant of the "old combat system" which was supposed to be "static". To sum up, the solution used in Throne and Liberty makes me think that Combat/Aiming System is not pleasant and I think that many people who have played other MMORPG Games will be disappointed from general combat feeling while playing this game. I made a comparison video of couple games so you can see for yourself what I'm talking about. kzbin.info/www/bejne/j4GwfZmrdtKsp9ksi=VzgmSaxqB5X41RYK Today we can find a lot of comments on r/MMORPG or r/throneandliberty about how combat feeling isn't pleasant for a lot of players, of course there will be those who don't mind it at all, but I think the combat feeling can be improved so that everyone will be satisfied. I just want to give a appropriate feedback and try to make Throne and Liberty a better game experience.

[@Oryyyt]

is there auto-rotation? auto-resetting? tracking or delayed follow speed with the camera? or is it because the character moves independently from the camera direction so when you move backwards they face the camera?

[@MedinnaPlay]

Did you give the feedback directly to the devs or what? Because posting on a youtube commentary section won't help TL to become a better game.

[@Oryyyt]

@@MedinnaPlay pray to the rng gods that some random top dev gets clickbaited and decides to scroll through the comments 🤣

[@Adartaer]

@@MedinnaPlay it's obvious that writing comment on the channel of a guy who was recently at the NC Soft KR headquarters and had the opportunity to talk to them about the game, doesn't make any sense.

[@Adartaer]

@@Oryyyt Yes because your character moves independently from the camera direction so when your character move backwards it face the camera

[@joshwaciantardrums]

Ngl even gw2 has better combat and its like 15 years old ☠️

[@PanagiotisVersuS]

Guys i still don't understand how the drop system works. I mean in a world rb the drops will be random or goes to the highest dmg party or who gets the last hit ?

[@dananism]

"For most of the game, the combat is super slow and clunky..." Not really selling me on it lol.

[@shadowbreaker6027]

the problem is that it's not really an action mmorpg but more of a classic one. You even use the classic camera and not the action one.

[@ExcessumGaming]

Honestly I was playing in CB maxed the character and while combat on casters is still ok as its similar to wow, nothing new here, but on melee or non caster ranged the combat is dogshit sadly. Esp the difference is even more glaring after the break from CB to OB and most of us playing Wuwa and ZZZ in meantime. And the saddest part is the only combat i somewhat enjoy is only available on 1 weapon combination staff/wand (as its only caster build) and you have 0 other options outside that and even then you are pigeonholed as a support instead of dps... and even then you suck at pvp....

[@MtlFT]

This just solidified that I won't be trying this game LOL

[@ceazer5963]

No one cares

[@chirohisuke7800]

@@ceazer5963 I do

[@xISolsticeIx]

I like the game but my downside for me is the combat range!! You cannot click the skill if you're out of range and the beeping sounds are annoying if you cannot or cast the skills

[@xStreatz]

The combat system is to blame why I won't play the game. am so disappointed. Bringing such a combat system onto the market in 2024

[@eatexp742]

If they cant get the beginning right they arent getting the end right

[@yagizyildirim8188]

Combat isn't good. It feels clunky, doesn't flow etc. I had great feelings about the game and waited for long time to try it out but.. I already lost my attention before get 50.

[@Oryyyt]

The most basic skills, the base level where nothing is unlocked has to feel good imo. BDO and Lost Ark has that. I like how this looks but I'm region locked so idk how it actually feels to play.

[@NoRest4TheWicked1]

It’s not about how it looks. It’s about how it feels. I was hoping for black desert instead I got auto combat

[@unluckyman214]

I came to explore this game a bit because apparently "TnL combat is better than Lost Ark" yea aint no fucking shot lmfao

[@JovittL2]

I havent played Tl yet, but im keen to try for sure, sinc ei played l2 for almost 20 years. The thing about the combat being slow at the beggining, i understand the POV and the criticism, but also what would we prefer instead? having already the same skills at the early game until the late game and forever as we do see in many MMO's trhough all the years? I mean, we are low level, its suposed start from weak to strong and go through the progression. Also i think this video was shared before the Skills expressions right?

[@EidoriansYT]

Game is good in every other category. Cool concepts. But Combat carrys games, but sadly this doesn't.

[@paranoidxz2360]

isn't true, with that take, BDO should be top 1 MMO, and isn't.

[@EidoriansYT]

@paranoidxz2360 yeah it is. Only reason people stay playing bdo is combat. You see soulframes combat awful. If combat is bad it's a bad game.

[@EidoriansYT]

@paranoidxz2360 there is an update to the skills coming. So we will see if it's good.

[@paranoidxz2360]

@@EidoriansYT Yeah and population is decreasing every day. Then combat isn't the important buddy.

[@EidoriansYT]

@@paranoidxz2360 ?

[@MK-on1pg]

This game was up-and-coming, but let's be real the combat is bad at the moment. Endgame can't save the combat

[@tokestarlive8394]

why is he lying.. Kanon i like you stop trying to save this combat there is no difference at begin or end game its bad bro just stop man

[@-predict7443]

i dont get why the camera is "locked" after certain moves for example shadowstrike, or when u go to flightform. feels clunky as fuck

[@brooklyntaylor5935]

I take it back @Kanon . I actually like TL and combat. I did what you said that you told me in your stream. And after first few pvp fights the game clicked. And i actually enjoyed it. Funny how that works right? lol

[@sawyercooper3057]

The people who say it has to be the same throughout clearly don't understand how leveling works. You should feel and become more powerful as you level. Other wise why have levels? With every level I gain my combat feels better that makes me want to keep leveling. That is the basics of an rpg as apposed to a ARPG where nothing but the damage number changes.

[@singmysin]

Still looks mid tbh

[@vangoth74]

Absolute lack of evolution when it comes to this genre. MMOs are offering pretty much the same "combat" experience for decades now.

[@audioslave3004]

I'll make this easier: if you like Black Desert combat and SUCK at BDO pvp no matter how much you tried, spent and rerolled, if you still suck at BDO's pvp then Throne n Liberty is the game for us. Unless you want to keep lifeskilling and killing mobs just to feel part of BDO. Hurts but it's true

[@drradzig81]

The first 30 seconds of the video had me going: Yeahhh, if you cant make combat interesting until you've dumped 100 some hours to get to endgame, that's bad design and I'm just not gonna play this... and he agrees! Whats the point then XD Be bored for 100hours or some shit sounds just so bad

[@player1gerard]

If you overhaul the gameplay with same environment, from auto to manual. This is TL that gone the wrong way

[@zsoca921]

The average player wont reach the endgame. If the combat is boring in the first 50 level, then they will leave at level 30. Feels clunky, lack of impact, lack of visual, lack of everything. The whole game feels boring from level 1-50. You dont have the feel of your character progression. You just get basic spells with boring animations. They have to work on this, because this "just spam everything without rotation and wait for the CD" type of combat for PC is not enough. It really shows that they designed this game as a mobile game.

[@JonModafokin1]

Cant they just make a game with non targetable combat system like bdo or how dragon nest used to be . Add some visuals to that and some kind of a progress/leveling mechanic and you get the perfect game . Like all these year , never once a decent mmorpg came out . The are making the combats like freaking adventure quest worlds..

[@SkyLimitTheory]

Agreed, the fact that Ashes of Creation is also going to be tab target defeats a lot of hype for me, don't know why it's so insisted on

[@laststand2023]

i guess it's true that today's society no longer waits and have short attention span hence the advent of short clips and short messages, now it's the same with games, people no longer want to be in the "process" and just won't wait to be at the end game difference

[@Shadowexxc]

Ptw trash early game , PTW trash endgame? I really really really wanted to play this game, while playing the beta I was dozing off and truly uninterested in anything the game has to offer. It feels like a mobile game with a nice paint job. It’s truly sad, i had super high hopes for this game. Setting aside the stupid Ptw aspects, endgame content seems to be 500v500 Zerg fest with Ptw whales mowing down people. I’m sorry for this comment dude, nothing to do with you as a content creator. I just don’t want to play this garbage.

[@AiwekTH]

i played a lot of mmorpg and L2 was better

[@farragun3131]

I really don’t see anything wrong with the combat. And I’m a FFXIV, ESO and GW2 player

[@scolamiero28]

deff not the game for me , animation locking , jank , they did really well with converting the auto battle to normal combat , but the animation locking makes me feel the auto battle just cut up , if that makes sense to you it makes sense. overall feels like a neat UE tech demo

[@sgt_major8419]

The combat sucks big time, feels clunky and like a mobile game, auto combos eweew ugh....just feels so fake.

[@lordvaldus839]

Diddy?

[@danielcheng769]

There's no auto combo 😂

[@sgt_major8419]

@@danielcheng769 well that's how it looks and feels, combat sucks, waiting for a real MMO, Koreans cannot make a decent one...

[@danielcheng769]

@@sgt_major8419 wym look like auto combo, this look like any other tab-target MMO you smash buttons in a sequence. have you even played?

[@hurtstosmile]

right one is at night, so the character is sleepy, that's why it is slower

[@brooklyntaylor5935]

The combat is very niche tbh Kanon and upgrade, contract system is like Elyon and combat feels worse then Elyon. Not sure if you rember this game. But it is same way we upgraded and crafting items. Which is huge downside imo. Imo if BDO removed forced PVP, i feel like it would be top tier action combat mmo and none would come close to it, in imo.

[@derhenker1799]

Dw. It will die just as fast as Elyon did. This game is a literal joke. Which is a shame, because visually its the best looking MMO without a question.

[@florintapu6377]

people these days complain to much. combat its fine i think its really great that the combat gets better with levels because it gives a sense of progression

[@leroi804]

doesn't matter if you like it when 90% don't like it. The 10% who like it won't keep the game alive past its release xD

[@eatexp742]

Good for you that you can look for the positives in things, but dont virtue signal because the combat is undeniably a bad

[@warzy01]

Even in the beggining its fun..

[@warzy01]

​@@leroi804ahahaha your so cool the.combat is fun...

[@benjaherrera3299]

i agree, maybe tab target games aren't for them. genuinely liked the combat since like level 3

[@blackooutx]

NCSoft need to grab the players until end game or find a way to SHOW the NEW PLAYERS the endgame gameplay. Maybe create a training ground with End Game character builds...Idk, but theu need to do something regarding this

[@Rocky_A]

Played the open beta on ps5 abit yesterday. Feels good to me. Targeting takes some getting used to on controller and i havent figured how to target friendlys but besides that its good. MMo,s are ment to start slow to ease you into the complexity others its overwhelming, i think alot of people have been playing games to long and are burntout, simply cant enjoy the begining any more just a rush to endgame.

[@nerotv747]

You cant even do a simple left mouse click attack without having a mob around you. That says it all.

[@saleerian9607]

there is settings for that :)

[@Sayurawesome11]

If you think about it then albion combat is good because theres not much different from early to late aside from damage

[@HankHill-st3jb]

When a guy finds this game good.. You know he knows nothing about MMorpg Zero !!

[@draggil892]

I guess I am easily impressed or smth, I think the combat is aight, is it great or even good? Depends. But I think it servicable enough... well, for me at least. Hopefully if the majority dislikes it, the devs will adress it somehow, they already did once after all

[@helaxia2619]

You should have put the early game on the left and the end game on the right. It was wrong

[@g0ndal]

I hate that the gane penalize you for trying skills, if you dont like a weapon or build you gotta waste More and More materials

[@footofgork1]

WoW Classic literally has you using 2 to 4 skills for the first 20 lvls and is considered the greatest MMO of all time. Your rotation didn't really pick up til post 30 and that took countless hours to hit back in the day. I think people playing MMOs now days arent really MMO fans, the best part for me is the character growth and grind. It gives me something to look forward to in the future and a natural since of progression after each level or gear item obtained. But I also I enjoy tab target just as much as action combat....the only issue with action combat MMOs is the fact that most of them don't feel like MMORPGs at its core. Which I think is the biggest issue with MMOs now days....they dont actually feel like an MMO RPG.

[@mateukole5660]

Wow combat is much more responsive tho. Instant feedback on cast cancels, freedom of movement during combat, zero being locked in animation. Tab target is great, just tnl executed it poorly

[@footofgork1]

​@@mateukole5660 I agree the animation lock is an issue for alot of people. But this game also started out as Lineage 3 before the game development changed 2 or 3 times so the combat makes sense from a lineage perspective.

[@evylrune]

Why are the cooldowns so long...

[@3star515]

I find no issue with combat at all. It starts off slow, but I'm fully enjoying it at 30+ now. I especially find it ridiculous when people coming from Lineage 2, Guild Wars 2, Final Fantasy and WoW come out saying how the combat is floaty, unimpactful and shit like that. I've played all of those games extensively and in fact coming off of a 2 months of playing WoW even now. None of these games are better in any way when it comes to combat. In fact, they feel much floatier and unimpactful than Throne is. The bias and nostalgia blindness is insane within the community right now. Edit: And even more ridiculous are the people trying to bring games like Genshin Impact and WuWa into the conversation. Comparing a single player aciton rpgs that ONLY have combat gameplay to worry about to an mmorpg. Insane expectations for this genre.

[@3star515]

​@@brooklyntaylor5935 Pretty sure 20 years is enough to form an opinion on all of these games. WoW only beats other games in the world building and that's only because it had a massive build up through the original Warcraft games. So I rarely expect ANY mmo to beat it in that department. I like the combat in WoW, it's acceptable combat system for me in mmorpgs specifically and Throne's combat is very similar, just a bit more engaging. (I'm playing in classic mode, it's much better for me as a healer than the action mode) I think anyone who thinks that WoW's combat is better in any way is either terminally addicted to WoW, or just saying it for the sake of putting Throne down.

[@brooklyntaylor5935]

@@3star515 You don't see why others thing combat is lackluster. ESO did better job with mutitple weapons and class system then TL. It is going be very niche mmo, let us be honest for second.

[@3star515]

​@@brooklyntaylor5935 I'm absolutely fine with everything in terms of general gameplay, combat included. So far the only thing I don't like is the forced PvP in the open world. Literally just got zerg killed by 30 people about 4 times and lost 20% xp. Mind you, this is a zone where the main questline is, so it's completely unavoidable and you can't opt out of it in any way. Being forced to do any kind of content is simply never a good choice and if it becomes too annoying, this will probably be the reason I stop playing. I'm not even against PvP, but I don't want the game to dictate when I can or have to PvP.

[@BattousaiHBr]

scroll up and look at what he's doing in the video. pressing 6 buttons in a sequence, then everything is on cd so he walks back to wait until stuff is back up again. and it's not like short 3 sec cd either, most stuff is on 10+ sec cd. this is terrible design.

[@tonytooGhost]

Game just looks terrible in general.

[@mikecy69]

still look clunky in the late game tbh

[@Hero78]

I thought the end was the early and the early was the end. Skipping this game.

[@jinsenpai4818]

yea still trash and garbage combat they can't make it like blackdesert combat.

[@PJ-zy4wo]

For a game that's been in development for so many years, it's a huge disappointment, but what can we expect from NCSOFT other a P2W title they put together by just reworking on Lineagell...

[@joannevebby]

I'm gonna be real, the game overall is quite clunky... from the slow combat to the heaviness of the camera rotation and the way you're supposed to move around + attack at the same time You only have 5 fingers you cant be pressing WASD + 1234567890-= for skills, that's ridiculous... they should've taken the Lineage 2 approach and let you move with your mouse instead while using abilities with your other hand. I know you can move with your mouse but that too feels CLUNKY. Bushes/Trees/Foliage + Small objects count as a waypoint for your mouse clicks, even tho your character can go through trees + bushes, your mouse can't lol go figure. You also can't fall from high places with mouse clicks unless you press W, literally goes against the point of 'classic mode'. Pay to win aside, the game is probably not going to leave good first impressions with the way it plays, you WANT to have a good/satisfying gameplay early on for people to stay and it's not the case here unfortunately.

[@dimoronen]

You definitely can press that many buttons. Just bind them around wasd and on your mouse. I have skills/attacks on QERFTGB1234567 and some other buttons. The more frequently a skill is used the closer to WASD it should be kept.

[@3star515]

You know you can literally change any shortcut? I'm only using 12345 for the numbers. The rest is changed to R,F,C,T,G,V and Z. This way, everything is around WASD and usable comfortably. For the UI shortcuts that might normally use some of these keys, simply set them to use ctrl modifier too. For example ctrl+c or shift+c, since you don't use UI as frequently, you don't really need any of it on single key shortcuts.

[@stoicadanielcatalin3412]

Have you heard about gaming mouse with 12 side buttons? Try it. Mmos are not freaking shooters.

[@emanueledimatteo5059]

Go back to COD

[@Bvrrr]

You can change everything in settings , wonder if you knew that

[@Ryuukiwi]

is it just me but i kinda look at this as progression like at the start you dont feel to good cause your level 1 and when i start leveling and building out my character the fluidity goes up it feels better and then its really good i like that alot i love when i actually feel progression of my character makes me feel like im in a isekai and am dog meat at everything i do then i become a god hahahaha

[@DSRedBoi]

Combat is fine. People will cry about everything nowadays.

[@Scadipippen]

feels like im shooting blanks

[@Seb7an]

An RPG where you start with all skills at level 1 is just garbage.

[@Abololo33]

So outdated, looks like a bad mobile game 😂

[@danielcheng769]

I think speeding up skill casting is BAD design, it makes the game more just button smashing and whoever gets thr first hit off their combo. PVP is better ehen you can clearly see and react to what the opponent is doing.

[@sparhawk2195]

Put some time into it. got to 20, ran the dungeon. Combat is utterly boring. No matter the weapon combo. Spam skills, auto for a while, repeat. There is no sense of weight or reaction either attacking or defending. I have no fear fighting anything untill its somethign a few levels above me and just 2 shots me cause reasons. Dungeon isa zerg fest with a few 1 shot attacks if you dont understand what and where to dodge. Mobile games like ZZZ, Wuthering Waves and Genshin feel better combat than this. Like 20 years of WoW being the gold standard, its the mmo thats still around and still going. And yet T&L can't get combat even remotely close to being that good. Boring mindless spam that has no syngery, rotation or feeling to it. You could slap this on a mobile, tap the buttons now and then and it's the same shit.

[@adryjanwinter9216]

Diablo 4 etc etc is so successful because of the different types of powers. the power on this game is really small. But maybe this is enough, we will see.

[@javsama1]

imo looks the same, maybe you press more buttons but visually I see almost no difference

[@Despe1942]

people that want everything at once will leave game anyway after 2 week so

[@jiedragonhub]

Combat is fun for me. I don't really get the standard of these Western players to be honest. I tried to look up more of WoW's combat, cuz they keep saying it's better than this, but what I saw is a combat so bad and so outdated.

[@omegaxtrigun]

Ah yes because you can tell how good the combat is by watching a video right? WoW has a free trial. If you want to know how it feels, see for yourself.

[@hurtstosmile]

gw2's hybrid combat still better.

[@rein5114]

If the game does not have fail or broke or gone gear when enhancing, i not call that mmorpg 🤭

[@0ak3nsh1eld]

the game has potential the combat feels bad i cant even play the game because of it

[@ChildishGabito]

This game is not gonna suceed in the west. at this point the devs are now even doubting if it is worth releasing lol

[@jamakasis18]

Combat is fine. Camera smoothing you can't turn off isn't :D I guess it's like that to balance against consoles, but we shouldn't suffer for they inferiority

[@alispeed5095]

Blade and soul launched over a decade ago by the same company and it has better tab target combat😂 This shit is sheer laziness