I told NCsoft people think their game is p2w trash, here's what happened...

I spoke with the person running Throne & Liberty from NCSoft directly, and told him that people think their game is P2W trash, here's what happened...
My full Throne review: • Is Throne & Liberty Wo...
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[@KanonXO]

Guys, please post your thoughts in the comment section, there's a good chance AGS reads this...also follow me @ twitch.tv/kanonxo - streaming almost everyday

[@sylvainh2o]

Black Desert was F2pP2w ands in the West they promised us a Buy2Play and no P2W and it turned P2W just after a few months of purchase.

[@CriticalDany]

I have a feeling NCSoft hasn't looked about at their past. They lost so much with Aion and Blade & Soul which are two korean games with a heavy focus in PVP. Also to quote what Choi Moon said "The publishers have a better understanding of their respective regions" this would be important if AGS actually cared and they don't we see this in Lost Ark where the game is still very p2w. Even though feedback from the western audience is important I have no expectation AGS or NCsoft will do anything regarding this, whales will destroy the game in the west. Would be nice to see them remove the ability to purchase Lucent with real money and have cash shop filled with decent cosmetics to incentivise players to buy.

[@amcdonald7479]

Please compare how bad the P2W is compared to say ... archeage? I always found a way to keep up with whales there. Just had to be smart.

[@CriticalDany]

@@amcdonald7479 You want comparison check how active archeage still is oh yeah that's right its dead. Every heavy p2w korean game tends to die, some survive but the rest dead.

[@johnmaco]

My prediction is that TL will be played for a few months, and in a year it will have lost about 70% or more of its playerbase, if they keep it p2w. NCsoft has a history of having trouble adapting to the Western market. It happened with Lineage 2 that, despite being an excellent game, monetization caused it to decline in this market.

[@gnome6969]

Good on you for giving in-person feedback. Keep up the good work!

[@Oryyyt]

That last guy is the reason why they keep these P2W bs intact in their games. Almost as if KR players love flexing their wallets. Money = power. Though the west isn't much different in some ways if you think about it.. skins, battlepasses. Kids will eat that sht and shame you for being poor cause you don't have fancy cosmetics. lol

[@gnome6969]

@@Oryyyt I just hope AGS gives them a better understanding of our adversion to this though. I can't know for sure, but I wonder if Koreans are seeing Throne good as it is because of how much worse other the monetization is in other Korean MMOs.

[@sickbrain]

I can't believe you pushed them on Lucent, well done. You'll never be invited again though 💀

[@yexiu5649]

Wow im in shock, someone actually told them in their faces how p2w the game can be. You sir are the goat for that. Its very different to complain online and in forums compared to looking at them in person and just saying it how it is. Sincerely appreciate you doing this 🙏

[@user-zc2wy9df6d]

I mean you can buy gold in WoW and no one ever complained 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@Holyfield-xy3fb]

Well because in wow you can throw all the money you want at it but you’ll still be dog sht at the game lol…

[@n91312]

@@user-zc2wy9df6d it wasn't always like that and people definitely complained about it when it was introduced

[@JakeAtkins11]

@@user-zc2wy9df6d People deffinitely complained lol....

[@ajjames1960]

​@@Holyfield-xy3fbsome games nowadays do that alot but still have negative feedback and you know what they say? "i top up for the game and my friend didn't but how come we didn't have any differences, this game is a scam" what can u say about that 😂

[@FlaxiEverafter]

Thanks for speaking up for the Western players. There is definitely a cultural difference in gamers. Whenever I tell my gaming friends that I'm excited for Throne and Liberty, they respond exactly as you said: P2W garbage.

[@MS-wz9jm]

Its weird when you think about it though because outside of gaming the whole western society is based on p2w, we just hate it in games but not in life.

[@memitim171]

@@MS-wz9jm It's not any better in life but there's no point complaining about it because that's just how it is, nobody expects life to be fair. But people, quite rightly in most cases, expect a game to be fair. Nobody expects this game to be fair though, because as sure as the sun will come up tomorrow, it'll be P2W garbage.

[@slyace1301]

​@@MS-wz9jmreal life is already p2w, games are a form of escapism and don't need to be p2w

[@Bananenbauer123]

@@MS-wz9jm because video games serve as one of the few ways you can escape the capitalist reality, people feel very strongly about losing that as well.

[@HMNNO]

​@@slyace1301it's a f2p game, what do you expect

[@Muphet]

"we are not trying to do something that is bound to fail" said every company that closed their game year after release.

[@TheSchwarzKater]

Technically it's not a fail if they sell more microtransactions than it cost to translate the text.

[@Manuu-P]

and yet they ALREADY FAILED in KR.

[@dasbarbarian3454]

This whale vs whale sandbox that took 8 yrs to develop is specifically designed to extract as much money as possible over a short window so we can consolidate servers and keep costs low. Imagine creating a game that the starved MMO community all wanted to play!! You'd probably see a million copies sold and then the game die because of server queues and you'd probably name it new world!

[@LanzkiTgaming]

My guess is right or is it? bec. its already cliché the devs said that. lmao

[@IBodyBagz]

Not even a year, a couple months at best for most. They just cash in on the preorders and people buying shit the first week and you get the copypaste “oh were sorry butbwe have to close the server its a sad in “x” realm

[@isidornimages]

What I found most worrying was that they think AGS will know what the western audience wants...

[@ninjinmugen]

AGS knows what Kotaku wants, and doesn't seem to care what western audiences want.

[@StandardsFtw]

Yea. After Lost Ark it's clear AGS is clueless. LA is just as p2w in the west as it is in Korea.

[@davevang893]

Yea I find it worrying that they put so much trust in amazon when amazon hasn't had any successful game(s).

[@Proton-KB]

AGS is all about profits.

[@ThaCousin]

For real, after the last shit show with NewWorld, a looot of people just added AGS and those devs to the black list. Saying that AGS has better understanding or can handle the west market better is like to say: I don't know how to drive, but this money here 🐒 is a western monkey, he will do it for me 😅

[@seasalt4006]

Korean mmos could dominate the mmo market in the west if they stopped being so god damn greedy.

[@victorchanaud9126]

Thats absolutely true. And absolutely sad.

[@DEDSEHG]

Western mmos could dominate the mmo market in the east if they stopped being so god damn stupid

[@TheSchwarzKater]

Yeah, whenever I see a great Korean MMORPG, my first automatic reaction to it is "please someone hack them and release the game, so people can host it as private server" as it happened with Ragnarok online for instance and it was the best MMORPG gaming experience in my life. I would've played original server, if it weren't for the greedy publisher. This feeling is still strong, even so many years later.

[@coroto]

Hell naw... Most ppl don't like that anime otako uwu sempai bullsheeet

[@zninebiggs4911]

@@coroto You're very wrong lol

[@lylianx4209]

Kanon: "P2W is hated in the West! Are you aware of this cultural difference?" NCSoft: *pats wallet and looks at balance sheet* "What cultural difference?"

[@saviourly3186]

Sad but true... People in the west like to talk a big talk, but they walk the same walk as KR when it comes to P2W

[@bootywrangler1213]

Considering that T&L did so bad in Korea, that NCSoft didn't even mention it in their revenue reports, they're patting an empty wallet.

[@glyphsuritos6588]

@@saviourly3186this ^

[@JakeAtkins11]

@@saviourly3186 just doesn't matter when the few spends so much money

[@saviourly3186]

@@JakeAtkins11 that's all it takes

[@Haz3Nation]

Lot of non answers and dodging. We shall see. Good on you for keeping the foot on the gas during questioning

[@OOTheBlueAir]

they are not gonna comment to anything like out the blue, we can hope the take the feedback series

[@user-yy7yz8jd8x]

I was actually impressed how much he pushed the topic, well done Kanon

[@Erumyr]

They dodged everything. It will be another fail. First 6 months it will be wowowoow and people be like, fuck this p2w

[@oncewasblind4292]

They already gave us our answer. This is NCSoft, they didn't get their reputation by accident.

[@t3chfx13]

@@Erumyr Yeah thats how Lost Ark went for me and everyone I knew playing they just couldn't be bothered when they started hitting that wall where P2W became super noticeable.

[@YakitoGaming]

KEKW. it's Kooncoon wearing the P2W shirt

[@iReapez]

xD

[@Ryky]

No pay, no win

[@kav7029]

The most based Primeval in Archeage

[@kiiwi8405]

Kooncoon legend of archage!

[@sapasaja1640]

damn! never thought i'd heard that name ever again! legend!

[@mrfish229]

So TLDR from the feedback: "Thanks but not thanks"

[@abdelrahmanrad]

yea cuz fuck that. game is not p2w.

[@n91312]

He didn't even want to address the topic at first but he will eventually realize that noone cares about a 6/10 p2w game because theres already hundrets of those.

[@mrfish229]

@@abdelrahmanrad rich of you commenting that on a Kanon video when he himself called it p2w in his review. No matter how tiny it is the west won't accept it on a game coming from NC

[@Vss077]

ye in short: "it will be p2w garbage" but didnt expected more & rather have a p2w from the start than a game that starts without p2w & becomes p2w later so u dont regret not playing it

[@katmodahl83]

Big respect for you to actually have gone there and told them directly in person how the western audience (majority anyway) views their P2W practices. Well done!

[@RealHyqu]

I appreciate you continually pushing your thoughts/feelings about the P2W aspect. As a Western player myself, I have zero interest in playing game with it's current monetization. It just seems like another cash grab game.

[@wolfhowllionheart9367]

this tl meet up actually pretty much made p2w very thin in this game

[@RealHyqu]

@@wolfhowllionheart9367 Any pay to win in a game makes it garbage. It's either the game has pay to win or it doesn't: I don't play it or I do.

[@wolfhowllionheart9367]

@RealHyqu then sorry for you will miss a amazing game and the early day rush is the best for mmos

[@Jay-ft3xh]

Hyqu is a bonafide communist, just hasn't woke up yet.

[@dashwen]

I laughed so hard when the guy who turned around had P2W on the back of his shirt. Great questions Kanon! I’m still going to play the game when it’s released in the west however, the p2w does worry me a bit.

[@cyborg7162]

You have big balls sir Kanon, Pls tell me they wont blacklist u for that kekw Thanks for trying to improve the west release !

[@KanonXO]

Man, if they are salty about that feedback i don't know what to say, I genuinely want our version to be the best it can be. Someone needed to tell them what we all feel.

[@MeterJeter1]

​@KanonXO, if p2w is still in the game, I have literally had no hope. Hopefully something changes....

[@jay784us2]

I won't be playing if the P2W remains. Won't even download it.

[@androgeniko]

Same, I will continue playing lineage 2 private servers and dont even try TL ​@@jay784us2

[@MeterJeter1]

@@jay784us2 same here

[@vettstang]

Wow I gotta say Kanon just earned massive points in the west just now!!! Yes 🙌. Thank you for telling them in person about the P2W! I never seen a content creator go this far and beyond to help the western audience. This was great Kanon kudos to you! I can’t believe the others sitting near you tried to defend p2w. 🤦‍♂️

[@KanonXO]

🙏

[@kordvoa9653]

I remember playing Aion with my boys back in the day before the whole "F2P" but P2W model happened, NCSOFT golden days imo. Those days are seemingly long gone unfortunately. I'll be trying the game nonetheless. Good video and you are right, I don't think they understand the western audience.

[@janninesanchez1091]

Aion on release with sub was so golden, I remember Abyss hunting and in the dredgion BGs... I treasure those days deep in my soul forever. Still play with the same people till this day

[@olauda]

@@janninesanchez1091 Yep, Aion on release was wicked fun.

[@DunkelBisBunt]

@@janninesanchez1091 Same, I already played GuildWars 2 back then and I play it still today, but I also played the original Aion with subs and even the Aion classis re-release, but it instantly was full of bots and RMT again so it was unbearable. Today I only play GuildWars 2 - with someone I brought over from Aion.

[@warzy01]

same i'll be playing but if its too p2win then i'll quit...

[@janninesanchez1091]

@@DunkelBisBunt New Aion classic was fun for a week, then it was just bot land and RMT... like you mentioned. Also the tiger coin ordeal was pretty messed up. Day 1 people had millions of Kinah already, impossible amounts of Kinah on day 1 for classic Aion.

[@DEDSEHG]

I mean I got a lot to say about this: First of, mad props to you for taking the time to attend the T&L Dev Panel (or whatever they call it) I personally dont care much for things like these because its all just show & tell, and at the end of the day, its in their interest and their job to sell their product, and for many people, an adequate way of demonstrating this is to answer questions the fans and gamers may have. Its all part of the business no doubt! I think theres an argument to be had on both sides. But when I observe these things I notice something rather significant People who go out of their way, whether provoked, or out of necessity or whatever; to defend a company's engagement in these monetization strategies, always held the same sentiment: "It's not >so< bad" I believe this is a flawed argument, and a subtle, not necessarily intended, but it does happen; attempt to dissaude the conversation into a completely different purpose! What sentiment am I supposed to walk away with when the conversation isn't "the game is good", but that the game's monetization is "not so bad". Am I really supposed to settle for that? Am I supposed to be happy? Or enthusiastic? Is this really what we want or even need in the game industry? Games that are "not so bad"? I understand companies need to make money, but I don't fundamentally agree with the monetization stategies that people tend to call P2W for many reasons. Namely, it has too much control on the game's ecosystem, often leading to be overly reliant on the engagement, or it simply gives too much leeway for the individuals who spend. This grossly waters down the game on a qualitative basis, and the population and power balance in the game often tends to suffer as a result of it. You will either need spenders to fill the void in an ecosystem because less players are farming, which overall lowers the quantitative representation of sub-systems in the gamespace that holds demand, that allow for broad, umbrella item drops quintessential to gear progression that most people tend to overlook. And whats worse is that a common trend in MMOs is that developers rarely take the time to consolidate these things properly, when they're either under-populated, or the drop rate is just too low and the demand is too high. A good example of this is Aion remake, Aion's game design was originally based of a pay2play subscription model, and the game's intricate framework was heavily dependent on this concept, when they relaunched the game in remake, they overlooked the overall gearing process, items such as manastones, stigmas, and godstones, became grossly sparse by comparison, due to the simple fact that open world grinding had been completely phased out of the game, in a predatory attempt to assaude players into paying for higher subscription tiers, to get higher drop rates, or just the ability to drop items in general. Nobody purchases these products, and the company has had to constantly make event after event to compensate the significant demand in these items. Everybody is buying from the market, but NOBODY is farming for the items, because the item system got overhauled, and the developers did it lazily. The demand is SKY-high, and these are rare items their market value is outrageously inflated and people are now reliant on events and whales, because the item doesn't drop anymore without subscription and nobody can get it organically, because the publishers got greedy and used the entire ecosystem as a hostage to try and coerce gamers to buy their subscription model. I have yet to see a single MMO ecosystem that is actually flexible and robust enough to compensate these declines. Because the demand will be high. I do not like P2W model games, because developers have continuously overlooked the rules of acquisition within such features, yet constantly put them in their games, and the ecosystem is always the first to go and suffer due to this. The worse the ecosystem is, the more the f2p and low spenders suffer, while whales and p2w players will just pump more money into the game to compensate their losses. Companies feel rewarded as a result, and the lines are blurred and the issue is overlooked, under the guise of "success" because everyone is just pumping money into a system to compensate gaps and overcome bottleneck hurdles! What can f2p players do? Grind more? Grind harder? There are only so many hours in a day, there is only so much luck a person can have; there is only so much a player can do, until eventually the demand will be too high and the players will fold! P2W will just pump their items onto the market at grossly over-inflated rates, and f2p get oppressed by the system, and are forced to either over-work, thus where the argument of 'difficulty' comes in, or they will just leave. MMORPG gear process is an armsrace, and has always been designed this way, f2p are either not allowed to play ball, or p2w players will just ramp up the spending, until its impossible to keep up. Because they are greedy and they want to be the best. P2W Players can spend more F2P Players cannot grind more, because their grind is limited or there is not enough time Throwing money should never be a solution to game progression because of this! It's poorly regulated, and its too unfair. But the developers want it this way, because it makes them more money; "The ends justify the means!" This is an inevitable future, no game can escape it! If the game's ecosystem is not self-perpetuating, to the degree that f2players can do it organically without leaning on the marketplace, without leaning on spenders to just fill a deliberately engineered void, then the f2player will be exploited by whales and high-spenders who just want to push as much opportunity for value as possible, which will lead to inflation, the ecosystem will collapse and the game will die! P2W players NEED f2p, because the larger a game's gross population, the higher their spending value will be on return. The more worthwhile it is. F2Players DO NOT NEED P2W players. The more there are, the higher demand they have to fulfill to either keep up the armsrace, or to just meet demands because trade has been removed, and that has created a fundamental bottleneck It is essentially a dance of death! Trade was the easiest solution to this, and it was completely removed, due to detering "cheaters" and ironically enough, this very monetization is cheating! Gold sellers used to be the go-to solution for these people, and instead it has been legitimized so long as developers and publishers can control where that money goes! They were the ones who outlawed gold selling. They were the ones who warned us that it damages the game's ecosystem! Why has this tone changed?! Why are they now engineering the same concept and playing it off as if its ok just because THEY get the money? It is beyond foolish, and the best thing the defenders of this argument can say is: "its not so bad"? That is a sad joke!

[@xmakaci1819]

Wow, Absolute CHAD! Thanks Kanon for being a good variable and ingredient for the west success.

[@Dyasis]

From their response to you, the only way I see them changing it is if AGS tells them "This will NOT work in the west, we have to tone it down". If AGS doesn't hold firm, it's not going to work here. Thank you @Kanon for asking them that repeatedly, we do appreciate that more than you know even if it falls on deaf ears.

[@AsthmaQueen]

issue is the entire game is built from ground up with monetization model in mind and it never is as easy as turning it off, and it always leaks back in.

[@TheARESxGOD]

Bro that last guy holy paid actor lol.

[@abdelrahmanrad]

that was me. the game is not p2w enough to call it p2w. both in korea and in the west. why? well simple WoW is more p2w. done

[@TheARESxGOD]

@@abdelrahmanrad I disagree if you can get any power in game the game is p2w and by power i mean gear/currency/more entrances to content. Ofc there are layers to p2w and some games more more or less p2w than others but lets call it what it is.

[@docdirtymrclean3610]

@@abdelrahmanrad lmao not at all. but you have your opinion. it is a different view. But..p2w is p2w. if i can buy object A with real $ and object A makes me XX% stronger,faster,more durable, gain faster, etc it is p2w.. there is no debate, no opinion. it is p2w. " Done".

[@paintspot1509]

​@abdelrahmanrad Abdul, you need help my friend. You are not even korean, let alone at this event. Get a grip on reality.

[@Idontwantyourcookies]

@@abdelrahmanrad Take your meds bro you actually weren't there

[@Krillick]

Big respect for telling them how it is, Kanon. Also well played to the guy turning around at 3:23 with the "P2W" shirt, haha.

[@trollex1000]

just saw that guy LOL KEKW

[@Silv3rShadow1]

Thanks for putting your time, money and travel to this and asking the big questions, especially that KR and Western have a little bit of different perspectives of P2W (like the $500 Ahri skin) on behalf of the westerns MMO community brother

[@florin.u]

Amazing feedback, thanks for doing right for all the concerned people in West.

[@dozilla77]

Thank you for being our voice Kanon! I was one of those you were speaking about in the West that also played a ton of Lost Ark but fell off only because of the P2W and would still be playing that game to this day otherwise. I'm out on T&L, not even going to download and try it. This makes me sad AF but I'm not investing my time with games like this. Give us an option for a monthly sub and even cosmetics, otherwise, no thanks. A real money AH was done in Diablo 3 and look how that turned out....

[@Thorlof91]

I respect you having the courage to ask the question directly! good job.

[@Czulki]

Good on you for being the voice of the west (and reason) during the Q&A event. Kudos.

[@somedude1324]

Mad respect for telling them the west thinks p2w is trash. Great video.

[@IceCold-3000]

Great job bro 👍 Thanks for being our voice , and trying to save what could be a really great game.

[@Label07]

Mad respect! Love it when youtubers put their neck on the line for the truth. It sucks the West is getting an older version, wish they would drop us off exactly where KR is.

[@ivangho6319]

You have balls to ask such a questions my man and the audience felt it too 😅😅

[@chasebliss5045]

While i don't always agree with your takes, which is totally fine, i can have nothing but respect for what you did there. Great way to get the community to be heard. Well done sir!

[@TheDarq0n]

damn son, you've got balls! Bless you for asking the hard questions and not accepting BS PR answers and wanting more info!

[@jeanmiranda8651]

I don’t really typically post anything on KZbin, but I’m glad that you had the courage to tell them in person which is really cool and brave. If they’re smart as a company they would remove it to grab more people at launch and then add it later if anything lol

[@Thakkii]

Much respect from being upfront and direct with those questions , they dodged but at least they a little aware

[@Fu31go]

I was a few weeks ago in a podcast in spanish where we talked about TL but when I said the same as you I was cancelled. I like the game and I know the improvements it has had over time but the p2w in T2 for me is digging deep. I'm glad someone had the balls to tell that to the creators of the game

[@benzhq563]

Good thing you brought that up to the devs. Thats already a feat. They will consider that. The devs should reward people who actually play the game.

[@williamwolf6239]

Thank you for asking these questions. Hopefully they take your feedback seriously.

[@ramschasar7654]

A fait shop without p2w but stuff like skins people want, like different skill animations like in path of exile, can lead to more income for them and makes players happy. Why is it so damn hard to not put p2w, p2 progress or p2 convinience in the game.

[@oaps1]

lmao that guy at the end though. The system is soo good that NC Soft doesn't even list T&L on their earnings report. Like let's be real, the monetization was built specifically for KR and is failing miserably, it's only going to be 10x worse in the west. Also I would disagree in regard to saying Lost Ark is more P2W as in LOA it only affects PvE, whereas P2W affects the experience MUCH more in a PvP oriented game like T&L is.

[@fenxis]

Completely disregarding Kanon's feedback because he's a "foreigner" is some serious copium.

[@Edriella]

@@fenxis Especially when he is talking about West and not Korea. xD

[@kyoden1928]

? PvE vs PvP P2W is equal u think is fair to see a guy solo a boss while u cant even do it as 5-10man cuz ur not p2w enough? lol

[@oaps1]

@kyoden1928 well looking at the success of T&L vs Lost Ark in KR it seems like people agree, can't argue numbers. Also if there are any raids in LOA you can't beat sounds like you might wanna find a new genre of game

[@kyoden1928]

@@oaps1 i dislike LOA copy system of maplestory, having to make 6 alts just to fund ur main seems a pretty bad design to me as F2P just to be able to kind of catch to p2w players, i can for sure kill any boss in LOA if i wanted to but to me is a waste of time to do daily stuff for months on multiple toons just to feed 1 character xd

[@SonaSoniaSona]

Another game where kr will be patches ahead of us and all new content will be already solved/chewed when it gets to us :c

[@louderthenvisual]

Yes. They do not care.

[@Vss077]

tbf thats normal, localization takes time, korea has what language - korean but when u do it for the west - there is at least 6 language u have to translate (in reality over 16 if u want most of the players). so ppl either underestimate these facts or think they only need it to translate everything to english. i agree that it sucks, but imagine a western studio is gonna make a release for asia region & say "well since we have server in asia we have to delay the patches" - bet nobody would be happy cuz "who cares about them?"

[@MinionM00]

Earned a member for bravery of asking the tough questions there mate! Cannot wait for this game and your coverage has been the best!

[@vyktorzhuravlev8304]

If developers are shooting themselves in a foot, then that's their problem.

[@GwyndoB]

When he said ` We are not personally managing the entire global service, Us seperating regions is because our publishers (Amazon) have a better understanding of their respective regions that we can go through. The part that you are concerned about Lucent. We believe this much is possible and made the decisions to move forward with it. ` Im %100 sure game will die fast in West. There is no way EU will play a P2W game like this.

[@TheSchwarzKater]

Also much respect on being so direct and forwarding the western voice. Kudos!

[@Defaign]

god damn Kanon xD you just kept asking huh 😆

[@weirdodude1173]

Thank you for speaking up for us western players!

[@miketayson6531]

i usually never comment on youtube videos but damn man great video, ur personality and your videos improved so much kanon, keep up the good work, might become the goat no cap

[@spironsh6594]

Daaaamn not gonna lie really strong Questions u asked there!!!

[@ENGRtube]

So much respect to you Kanon! You're a real one for real. I really appreciate you bringing this up to the devs directly because it is a real concern in regards to the Global release.

[@eternal_knight_]

Great video, thank you for being so direct and honest! Love it.

[@MrBasforce]

Yeah, I didn't even play Lost Ark and would not play ToL even if I was a Lineage 2 Chronicle 4 addict. You have some balls to ask these important questions. It is nice to hear someone have a backbone. Thank you.

[@NotHaxan]

As someone who played lineage 1, 2 ans still plays Aion i can tell you this gqme is going to be some real RMT fiesta from the get go

[@Waiden01]

Well, good luck Throne and Liberty.

[@alexquezada4483]

MAN! That was awesome, so good to see someone clearly say things! They prob not doing anything but you did what you could

[@goblinburgers]

Girl laughing next to him like "this fool about to get escorted out"

[@BastianJahn]

Man I wish the developers of such companies would understand that the only way to really monetize a MMO in a sustainable way is a recurring subscription fee in my opinion. Otherwise it is just to hard for the majority of companies to balance the monetization part and keep it out of the game loop. To add to that: I really like how the game looks visually and also more importantly gameplay wise, but if this game is pay2win and I can get stronger with paying real cash I will not play it. (if a developer sees this)

[@tzunamy471]

I've unfortunately already written this game off myself, although I'm still keeping a peripheral eye on T&L regardless. Videos like this make me appreciate your effort; I can only hope there will be positive changes.

[@ClinesmithBB]

He tried so hard not to answer you. Tells me all I need to know. Straight up G how you asked if they even understood the west. They don't.

[@NwD2]

Props to you for beeing willing to ask hard questions and beeing willing to keep digging after corporate answers

[@zachyjames9999]

Great video, thank you for being our voice!

[@Miss_KittyCreation]

I agree! Most western players probably won’t like the lucent system. Good to see that you have told the developers that it is a concern. I’m from Australia and I ain’t much of a fan of p2w. 😊

[@Paradox4g]

Thanks for speaking up for us. I can't say that I'm really confident with them relying on "AGS"'s feedback considering how Lost Ark is but.... it'll be a fun year of throne and liberty before the player base is as small as lost ark.

[@progz5232]

Im glad you said this in person. I am not sure if the developers actually get it how serious your being. First they say Korea and West are being developed as "one" but then he kind of contradicts himself by saying... well... the publisher will be the one that indicates what would be good for the gamers. Really odd, then he went on to say well the West verison is actually behind in verison updates compare to korea. I totally agree with you I do not want any P2W in the game.

[@connorm.]

They're going to run it similar to how Black Desert was run with Kakao. The version will be a patch or two behind but all changes in KR will trickle down to the Western client as it's localised. The store will also likely have different purchase options and prices than the KR client.

[@cerunos]

No one really expects a company to create me an MMO and not profit from it, but there are tipping points and I do feel that they do not fully understand Western audiences and I thought you did an amazing job on pressing the point, well done to you, most would have caved in your situation. I believe the main or at least one of the main issues is the player base that enables this, if people actually refused to participate (take retail WoW tokens for example) then companies would be forced to review.

[@Oddsy_Au]

I’m not even invested in this game yet but I was happy to watch this! I respect the developers having an open QA like that and actually seeing it here. And props for pushing the hard questions 👍

[@Melitzaneitor]

First of all thank you so much for being our voice, i have personally played the game in korea and its pretty fun, i wish they could remove the lucent bullshit but they have repeatedly told us that they won't, so i agree that they probably won't, it's pretty dumb how much money they will actually lose just out of sheer greediness, you made pretty strong points and i hope i REALLY hope they take them into consideration and somehow aleviate this problem as much as possible, else i will not be playing and a huge part of the community won't either

[@Trocaz]

I'm glad you made those questions. I'll play TL in the South America server. I'll even if there is p2w, but I would strongly prefer if there is not.

[@escarretada]

Man you are a Hero!!!!!! We need more people like you giving feedback in korea and in this case i agree that is not the worst "p2w" could be better but...

[@Zyrokk]

good for you, keep it up!!

[@silkroad780]

You are my favorite youtuber from now.

[@Jannah_2k]

Nice that someone asks the right questions and gives the actual feedback.. like clearly many thought that based on the laugh reaction that did happen.. not many just say these things outloud. And yes, being one of the western audience that considers trying the game, this thing is important factor if i will even bother trying it or not. Then again, i do "allow" certain amount of p2w (more p2progress faster, i hate if someone can actually pay to be more stronger than me with actual stats and i cannot catch them unless spend equally) in my games, if it is something that one can just grind in few months and be of equal strength and not have some Diablo Immortal tier power difference from swiping.. that is not cool.

[@Da_Shao]

First of all big respect for going there and speaking up. For me TL is probably just another game it will be fun for a bit then it will be gone cuz players will go away, players like me, like my friends from other mmos, like people in comments. We will go play the game have fun and all, but eventually we will stop having fun like in other games cuz of "unhealthy" p2w. I am old fashioned and actually like to get something in game by playing it not swiping card. These comments will probably won't help buut also won't hurt. If there is small % of chance we can try to do something and making Throne last longer than 3 months like other mmos

[@JAdHum]

I worry about them relying on Amazon to guide the localization, because corpos are very disconnected from what the modern gamer actually wants. Lost Ark is a great example: we just wanted a good MMO that wasn’t P2W - all Amazon did was race swap characters and censor outfits… things literally no one asked for.

[@ArtSawce]

In their mind was like "Who TF is this broke boi asking questions about p2w, if you're broke boi just say so"

[@JonahVeilGaming]

Always loved the content but you saying it to their face was great. Appreciate you doing that for all of us. We know it isn't gunna change for launch but maybe down the road when player numbers dwindle lol.

[@DAZTi]

Kanon: "P2W is hated in the West! Are you aware of this cultural difference?" NCSoft: Amazon bought rights to publish, we got money, no changes - thanks for your time.

[@Groove_Gamer]

NCSoft, P2W w PVP that's two strikes right off the bat, going to be a rough go but I do think it'll have a big launch in the west, I've already heard a lot of big content creators say they will try it so it'll get exposure but I'm thinking the honey moon phase will be short lived.

[@ActionFitz79]

I'm one of the potential players they lost when I found out it would be Pay to win... Also huge lol at the guy in the P2W shirt in the video :D

[@docdirtymrclean3610]

Your thoughts and comments were precise and directly discussing the problems. The dude that spoke after you, called you a foreigner and asked if there is anyone here who thinks the P2W system makes it harder, directly after you just finished stating that you thought it did along with most of the Western audience. Just very...shady Maybe i read that wrong, but thats what i gathered. Either way i think you were right, the company did their usual dance around the questions.

[@quavan54321]

That one dude lol Of course nobody will say anything bad if asked about lucent in Korea They love that p2w shit Removing it in NA/EU would be tremendous for longevity of the game but yeah they just want to make money so Amazon won't do anything Still hyped! Its gonna be fun 1-2 months after release and then adios

[@KingJerbear]

The problem is that one whale is the equivalent of like thousands of "normal" players. So all they have to do is keep the whales engaged and the game will be doing great for a long time. Being streamed by all the popular creators on twitch is not the same as actual longevity of the game.

[@iFaisal222]

bro was the biggest dickrider i've seen dickriding a company is the dumbest thing someone can do.

[@alexb9566]

@@KingJerbear Archeage did this. Just doesnt work in the end. When server populations die the whales leave as well.

[@Sephiroso.]

@@KingJerbear You're shortsighted. Keeping 1 whale happy and engaged does not mean the game will be doing great for a long time. That is ESPECIALLY true for the type of mmo that T/L is. It hinges on a LOT of players participating in the wars. If the only people happy are the whales, the hordes of non-whales will leave which the whales will then leave as well afterwards due to not having anyone to crush anymore.

[@paintspot1509]

​@Sephiroso. NC soft makes games for whales. L2m makes more money then pretty much all the PC mmos combined, yet has hardly any players.

[@Jyuan315]

Hi Kanon, bro with this result, you have my sub and likes, you told the dev what they needed to hear, but they don't wanted it. I wont be playing this trash game. Because they wont change. IT"S NCSOFT, they destroyed LineageII ages ago. And many of their other games, Blade n Soul. There is NO PROMSE, it's not about the players, it's about the $$$$. That's all they care about! There is no Throne without Liberty!

[@Cheeeroke]

Now this is the wakeup call and legit callout MMO devs need to face when they make their games insabely P2W. Big balls to you for this.

[@NamelessAzn388]

I definitely will not give it a chance if the buying lucent remains. I had enough of these minor things that affect gear and game progression giving advantage to players that end up paying more money. Yes there's an element of still being able to put time in, but in an aging gaming population (like myself) that does not have enough time to make up the difference someone can make with time and money. I don't think I would care as much if it wasn't a competitive PVP game, but then again that's part of why I play the current games I play.

[@WWE2KUNIVERSEELITE]

I don't know you. I don't know what content you do. I came here from DarthMicrotransaction's reaction to your video but I must say that you have MASSIVE BALLS to cook these devs therefore I subbed to your channel. You deserve it.

[@OrkTT]

Thanks for trying to save the game! I don’t want the game to fail, but I really think it will

[@user-ce9kb6lp2b]

Thank you for saying this straight in their faces. It's what I've wanted to do for so long. I used to be excited about kr mmos but time and time again they've destroyed the games I loved and the games I looked forward to playing with their incomprehensible greed. Tera, Lost Ark, Tree of Savior, BnS, Peria Chronicles.. the list just goes on with so many games that had great potential and amazing artwork/visuals just to be totally destroyed by greed. No one wants P2W garbage.

[@jamesFTW]

Easiest subscription of my life. Keep pressing those corporate thugs. Real gamers agree with you. No gamer wants Pay2Win. 🙌🙌🙌

[@buiahhh]

Thanks for the community service!!!

[@ImThomasG7]

3:23 P2W on the shirt 😭

[@diacross8059]

Great video. But what is this T-Shirt?! Looks like great quality and I want one!

[@arkanaloth2617]

the problem I'm seeing is they are talking about making improvements to the system as needed in the future but what they don't understand about the NA market is there's no room for 2nd chances. If that first impression is strongly negative it almost takes an act of god to reverse it. I've been gaming for decades.. my MMO gaming started with EQ, and the only game I've seen do a reversal of fortune on a disastrously bad launch is Final Fantasy 14. Everything else has simply crumbled assuming the game is still alive at all. T&L having P2W elements at all, while not the absolute death sentence it used to be, almost guarantees the game will not see the success they're wanting. A HEAVILY PVP game with P2W elements, good luck with that one guys.... good luck indeed, cause you're going to need it.

[@DblTapTV]

Archeage used to have me absolutely Hooked, it had everything I was looking for in an mmo with it's sandbox and pvp. The P2W system just made it to difficult to compete in the simplest of activities and ultimately lead me to just stop even trying on fresh start servers. From the little that i've seen of TL, it looks like it has a lot of the same gameplay feeling that Archeage had, I just hope that the short sighted P2W quick money grab doesn't kill it before it has a chance. NCSoft and all of the KR developers need to think bigger with long term monetization strategies for western audiences. Thanks for trying to get this point across to them Kanon, all we an do is hope they take it seriously.

[@JoaoPedroDamaso]

I wonder if they will come back to this interview once the game flops in the west and realize how much a simple change like this could've kept it alive for much longer than it will.

[@Ofdimaelr]

Next up can you ask Pearl Abyss how they are balancing Black Desert Online, who choose to rework node wars and is he playing BDO.

[@NoSkillsNoFun]

Thanks for standing up for us! Great work. I had my fair share of BDO and LOA, but both times, playing it casually until I got my fix. So i never really paid too much (bought a couple char slots for LOA and some convenience for BDO at the very beginning for like 20€). I can tolerate p2w up to the point, were I feel fucked over. And in terms of pvp, I'm super sensitive to that. I will have a look at the game, play it a bit, and if the P2W gets out of hand, I just leave.

[@sylverxyz]

In the west, it feels that 'Pay to win' fundamentally undermines the unique quality of MMO's for many. Earning status and achievement instead of buying it.

[@Adam12377]

The developers are clearly not understanding the western market, you can tell by there exact response they admitted to that (they are relying on the advice of Amazon) and the second FATAL flaw they are assuming is that if people in the west don't accept the P2W system than they will discuss changing it in the future. What they don't understand is it will be considered dead on arrival and changing this in the future will not revive the game from the dead. This game will be popular for like 3 months when all the streamers are paid to play it but once that initial period is over your going to see a MASSIVE wave of players drop off over the course of the first year to the point where its basically no longer economically feasable to continue. We've seen this EXACT series of events play out time and time again, not just with asian games trying to break into the western market but also with western developed games as well.

[@chubss808]

The hero we needed, respect from Hawaii bro🤙