THUMBSTICK vs GYRO vs MOUSE in Aim Lab

Let's see how we do in Aim Lab aiming with a thumbstick, gyro, and mouse! The difference between all three is stark, but the size of the difference is going to differ depending on your experience, your settings, and what game modes you're playing -- most games don't work quite like this even at your most frantic moments.
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:22 Thumbstick
1:42 Thumbstick results
1:52 Gyro
3:06 Gyro results
3:20 Mouse
4:29 Mouse results
4:39 Try it yourself
I'm Jibb Smart, a programmer trying to make games play better. It's not as hard as you might think!
Aim Lab is free on Steam: store.steampowered.com/app/71...
JoyShockMapper is free and open source: github.com/JibbSmart/JoyShock...
Learn how to get started with it here: • JoyShockMapper Quick-S...
After much tweaking, the thumbstick settings that worked best for me were:
45 degrees per second, with a very fast acceleration to 90 degrees per second when the stick is fully tilted. 90 degrees per second gets me to targets relatively quickly, while being slow enough that I can still make adjustments as I go. 45 degrees per second for little taps and adjustments also works well for the size of the targets, but Aim Lab has released an update already where the targets can be much smaller, so it might not work as well.
JoyShockMapper lets you set your settings using these real world values if it's calibrated appropriately for the game you're playing. Aim Lab lets you use the sensitivity scales of other games, so we can use the same calibration settings we use for those games.
For example, I told Aim Lab to use Overwatch sensitivity, and then I used this configuration file in JoyShockMapper:
gyrowiki.jibbsmart.com/game-co...
From there, you can change your settings further to have the same stick-only settings I had:
STICK_DEADZONE_INNER = 0.075
STICK_DEADZONE_OUTER = 0.05
STICK_SENS = 45
STICK_POWER = 1
STICK_ACCELERATION_RATE = 100
STICK_ACCELERATION_CAP = 2
RIGHT_STICK_MODE = AIM
L = LMOUSE
This makes the deadzones really small and sets the stick sensitivity / acceleration settings to what I described before, including shooting with the left shoulder button.
Learn more about gyro controls that are actually good at GyroWiki:
gyrowiki.jibbsmart.com/
For further reading, here's "Why not just use thumbsticks?": gyrowiki.jibbsmart.com/blog:wh...
Twitter: / jibbsmart
Patreon: / jibbsmart

[@JibbSmartGD]

Your results will vary based on how practiced you are with these different input types, but also based on the scenario. The scenario I showed here only tests big/close targets with very little time to shoot them. Check out Nerrel's video on the Legacy of the Steam Controller to see what a difference it can make to play a slightly different scenario: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5XWfWStnNplm5o SPOILER: With much smaller targets, frictionless gyro aiming can offer even better precision than a mouse! (Again, this will depend on the player, too)

[@hack_jammer]

I make gyro controllers that are actually good. I would send you one for testing. Makes Dualsense look like dog crap.

[@acyned8079]

Interesting! I'll definitely use this training program!

[@Ao1Trigga]

@@hack_jammer how do you get one of these?

[@corpingtons]

You also used a switch controller

[@corpingtons]

@@hack_jammerI have the best gyro controller currently

[@Lawlerboyful]

One day gyro aim will be standard for console shooters ! We must continue to make our voices heard. As dramatic as it sounds.

[@bensmart92]

Kabel yeah it really should be. Developers need to get on to this

[@CandarianGaming]

It should be apart of the console interface. For example on pc you can add gyro to any game through the steam interface

[@Lawlerboyful]

@@CandarianGaming That would solve virtually all problems i have with shooters on PS4 but, alas. Obviously gyro aiming takes development time to implement, but from what I understand it's identical to mouse aim so it's not that much more difficult. Plus we've seen a small few devs implement post launch (Paladins, Days Gone, Overwatch, Doom) so at least we have an idea that the devs can learn it fairly quickly. If Blizzard does not include a gyro update for PS4 the day the Switch version releases I'll sigh.

[@CandarianGaming]

@@Lawlerboyful Hopefully gyro becomes a normal option going with the next playstation cos playing games like uncharted would be sick having that feature. But yeah it literally is the same as aiming with a mouse just takes getting use to as I primarily play on pc and it's always with a controller

[@Lawlerboyful]

@@CandarianGaming well i've been asking naughty dog to include it for The Last of Us 2 since Bend studios did it for Days Gone. Not saying they've actually seen my requests but if more people ask they might just do it

[@tinymosesofficial]

Splatoon was the first shooter I really got into because the aiming felt so much better than other games thanks to gyro controls. When I started playing Fortnite, I told my friends, "I'll be better at this game when they add gyro controls to the Switch port." Now I have to turn down or turn off aim assist in Fortnite because I can feel the effects. I can understand when mouse and keyboard players complain about aim assist because it feels more drastic than it is if you're not used to it. I started playing Battlefront 2 on PS4 and I see my player following someone I'm not trying to kill just because he ran across my view. This wouldn't happen if I could use gyro with no aim assist. I just want gyro to be implemented into more games. More play options in this regard cannot be a bad thing. And it baffles me that Xbox, despite making big leaps in accessibility, doesn't have gyro for their current controller. Maybe things will be better next generation.

[@JibbSmartGD]

✔️✔️✔️ It's hard to go back! Gyro is spoiling us! And yeah, it's wild to me that with so much talk about accessibility lately gyro aiming doesn't come up at all

[@Celtic_Mav]

And now fortnite's gyro is broken with a deadzone

[@tinymosesofficial]

@@Celtic_Mav I thought I was the only one!! I've been struggling for weeks about it and everyone is confused what I'm talking about since they don't use it. I can't even use a scoped weapon because of this. It irritates me even more because I use pistols for less drop off damage at medium and long ranges and I use to be able to hit every shot, but now can't adjust enough to hit anything. Work the revolver out I could use it instead for even more damage and use it as almost a double pump attack but now can't hit anything.

[@ItalicMan420]

Well you got your wish they nerfed it to the point where it's hard to even compete as as a controller pro.

[@aperson7329]

Gyro in Fortnite ps4

[@osidufg]

gyroscope has already been a standard on mobile gaming like pubgm. i can say that gyroscopes combined with analouge is better than using analouge alone.

[@dranclitar9878]

Yes this is true I can aim easily on the gyro in pugM and I struggle playing COD warzone in my ps4

[@dranclitar9878]

@Quality High but its not on modern warfare warzone.

[@osidufg]

Bogodo yeah, but it doesn’t matter. if you get used to it, you’ll have more advantage in aiming

[@allahbless2278]

@Quality High 😳 never knew

[@thearmyofiron]

haha, I believe there's more people using claw than gyro

[@blaynestaleypro]

The way Breath of the Wild did it was perfect. Use thumbstick for less accurate quicker aiming, use gyro for more precise aiming. This should be standard.

[@Maddoxmaddox-bk4sc]

You are probably gonna scorn at my comment but I have to say that mobile gaming have added a new dimension to it by introducing gyro aiming. I was about to buy a PS4 two months back but backed out once I realised that console controllers don't have gyro aiming. Decided to just play Cod on mobile

[@blaynestaleypro]

@@Maddoxmaddox-bk4sc Whatever floats your boat. Its stupid that these big companies can;t add gyro support. So many good gameplay ideas can be basically ripped off from Nintendo games, but most developers are dumb fucks.

[@marving.8868]

@@Maddoxmaddox-bk4sc Nintendo Controller have it. Im not sure if PS has it. But you could play on pc and use a Switch Controller

[@VagrantValmar]

@@marving.8868 Dualshock has it but only paladins uses it

[@lnkp-nut9564]

​@One Thou Wou chill nigga he just likes mobile gaming i like pc though so fuck maddox3791 maddox

[@Agos226]

I would be very curious to see this test done again with someone who has no prior experience with gaming. No matter what, our past experiences influence what we're comfortable with and it would be interesting to see which one is most intuitive for new players

[@LeoSRL300]

Agree, this would be a great idea

[@aboveaveragebayleaf9216]

I've found most new players for sure do better with mouse than joystick, but struggle a little sometimes with the left hand coordination.

[@olah547]

I feel like gyro might be more intuitive because its the closest to aiming in real life I.E. using a gun

[@shortbreadhead]

@@aboveaveragebayleaf9216 Gyro feels like the best option for me, I'm left handed but I do a lot of things right handed, like using a mouse which I have done my whole life. However for finer things like aiming with a mouse it's just not as easy for me and because I've used the mouse right handed my whole life I just CAN'T use my left hand with a mouse. It's a totally weird situation and I wonder how many left handed people have the same experience as me. Yeah I can aim "fine" with a controller, but obviously there are levels of assistance going on there, even though I am fully capable with both hands in any position on a controller since, the same as a mouse, I've been using them my whole life as well. So I'm in the odd situation where I can't win either way, that's why gyro genuinely feels like the honestly superior, ultimate answer. I remember I got Kid Icarus: Uprising for the 3ds, this is slightly unrelated but it might highlight the weird issues I face. It was very genuinely impossible for a left handed person to play. Having to hold the stylus with your right hand for aiming and moving the character with your left was not going to work because I can't hold a writing like tool properly in my right hand, and I definitely can't aim that way. The other option they gave you was to move your character with the face buttons using your right hand like it's the d-pad so you could use your left hand with the stylus to aim and that's just not a solution, when every single controller I grew up with had the d-pad on the left, controlled with my left hand, I couldn't do that with my right hand in the opposite position, never mind the fact the solution involved an inferior input method for movement. I know that was a tangent, but I thought it might help explain how there's never a REAL solution for left handed gamers, but gyro, that's different and it's much quicker. I consider it an actual accessibility feature, not just for those reasons but I also experience pain that personally prevents me from doing things I'd always like, but gyro doesn't affect me as it takes stress off of the affected areas.

[@StoneMountain64]

Bro this is insane!

[@JibbSmartGD]

Thank you kindly! This input remapper (and others) puts gyro aiming into Warzone, too ;)

[@techyguyaditya]

​@JibbSmartGD warzone already has gyro aiming, and it's really good, supporting aim assist.

[@JibbSmartGD]

Yep, Warzone has gyro aiming, and its settings are largely based on my work. From what I've heard, active gyro disables aim assist (which is great)

[@techyguyaditya]

@JibbSmartGD wow that's great bro! For mobile gyro players like me, warzone got a bit more easier to play newly on consoles. Do you have similar configs for apex legends?

[@JibbSmartGD]

:) I know some people who use input remappers to play Apex with gyro, but I have no idea if they're gonna add it to the game

[@JibbSmartGD]

This video is frequently used in discussions about the benefits of gyro aiming. I usually find out about this through spikes in views, but usually don't know where they come from. If this is your first time seeing this video: 1. I'd love to know what brought you here, and 2. If you want to see stuff like this in actual games, check out my other videos :) Thanks, Jibb

[@crazyboyandyomama]

Reddit

[@JibbSmartGD]

Much appreciated :)

[@TwigglTheBird]

i would like to see this as a new standard for consoles, this debate about aim assist and mouse and keyboard aim is so annoying, especially in crossplay games like cod warzone. I am a pc gamer, but playing sometimes crossplay with friends

[@JibbSmartGD]

Thanks, Simon :)

[@Crlarl]

Nerrel: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5XWfWStnNplm5o

[@jamienava6750]

Gyro is a lot of fun. You can tell right away how sloppy and slow his aiming is with a analog stick. It's a shame most console gamers dismiss gyro (or motion controls) as a "gimmick".

[@varoennauraa]

A lot of PS4 games could use a gyro update!

[@stoopidhaters]

Well PS5 is around the corner so hopefully Sony keeps the gyros in the Dual Shock 5. Microsoft should jump on board especially for the new Halo. Analog sticks are ancient. They are only good for move, strafe and quick turns.

[@JibbSmartGD]

I think Sony will keep gyro in the DS5 both for backwards compatibility and for VR :)

[@glenncolina4353]

same goes for PC!

[@varoennauraa]

@Hannyabal yeah. That’s why I mostly play on Nintendo. Gyroless controls feel so ”last gen”, that I cannot go back.

[@varoennauraa]

@Hannyabal I’m fearing that too!!! That really makes my spider sense tingling!!!

[@IceBreak23]

Splatoon 2 changed my gameplay with Gyro, wish they did more support for gyro on steam like joycons, Gyro is a lot better than mouse and keyboard for me

[@chan13153]

Gyro has many advantages over mouse and keyboard. For me it's a more fun way to play the game. It feels more like your actually aiming the weapon which makes the experience more immersive. Also many games work better with a controller over mouse and keyboard. Games like GTA5 plays better with a controller + gyro. Also the final advantage is being able to play games laying on your sofa on the big screen TV versus hunch over a desk.

[@Matt-kl7qc]

I agree with you 100%

[@tostadorafuriosa69]

@@chan13153 I play mainly on pc but i dont like the keyboard and mouse at all. Gyro game a good option.

[@meachew]

@@chan13153 so true and gyro seems to have similar aiming to a mouse and your correct gyro is really fun.

[@jordisimons8976]

So true there’s nothing better then quickly turning your whole body to the side like some yoga exercise and clapping some guy trying to sneak up on you from behind.

[@therealperfectname]

I'm surprised new shooters don't have gyro controls already. It seems to be the next step for console aiming

[@sleepingturtle32]

Yeah

[@michaelcamacho3717]

Sony's PS controllers and Nintendo Switch controllers have gyro builtin, however, Xbox controllers don't. But there are 3rd party controllers, expensive ones, that have gyroscope.

[@Creshex8]

Microsoft and Sony need to get a special award for setting the industry, the quality of play, and the fun of games back 15 years. Their refusal to innovate, support their own product, and outright suppression of gyro has held back so many people from enjoying video games.

[@qwertyasdf6589]

Might be too broken and unfair for keyboard and mouse players

[@JibbSmartGD]

It actually makes things more fair because it puts controller players in direct control of their aim instead of having unnatural aim assist

[@godmodecheater153]

Gyro aim has the advantage that you aim with your motion just like with the mouse. Way more fluid, faster and accurate that with thumbstick, where you just can choose the direction

[@MoonyTheBat]

Hey hey! I just found this channel through Nerrel's latest video about the Steam controller! I've been using his two videos about gyro aiming to help tell people online about how good gyro is and why it should be standard, and now I think I'll start linking this video as well! Keep up the good work, gyro really should be mainstream on every console by now (looking at you Microsoft).

[@hack_jammer]

Lol those gyros are trash. Check me out. I did it for real. Can go diagonal and upside down and it won't drift like crazy and crash your computer like jibb smart's lazy trash software

[@JibbSmartGD]

If my "lazy trash software" is crashing your computer, please report an issue. No one else is reporting such a problem. As for diagonals and upside down, JSM's "gyro space" options give players a few ways to handle weird orientations. Check out GyroWiki and you might learn a thing or two

[@hack_jammer]

@@JibbSmartGD by the way the reason is obviously drift + hours of use. if you haven't reached that yet you haven't tested your software as well as i have. figure it out genius

[@hack_jammer]

@@JibbSmartGD oh and it doesn't surprise me that I'm the only one to have used it for more than a couple of hours at a time. because your vision of gyro is extinct. i'd explain but i think you've been too lazy to keep up.

[@jibaycay]

Your video is clear and nice made, I'm linking it almost everytime I discuss about gyro aiming (I wish so much this feature in Cyberpunk 2077 😅).

[@vladimirpolnikov]

How did you make an overlay at the left corner? Which app provide this?

[@JibbSmartGD]

It's a program of my own making. It's called JoyShockOverlay, and I hope to get it ready for others to use it this year.

[@vladimirpolnikov]

@@JibbSmartGD Looking great 👍

[@JibbSmartGD]

Thanks very much :D

[@PalaKThkaur]

@@JibbSmartGD you made it on coding on your own😱

[@drippeeboye607]

I’m bookmarking this video my brother wants to stream and I’ll be sure to give him this program it actually looks great

[@augustofretes]

I'm actually better with the gyro than with the mouse on Aim Lab, as crazy as that might sound. I find that the lack of friction with the gyro means I can make small adjustments faster. Also, with the mouse you rely only on your muscle memory, with the gyro you develop something else on top of that: you literally feel the angular displacement on your wrists, which is very, very helpful. My average score with the gyro on gridshot ultimate is 55k (my record is 68k), my average with the mouse is 48k and my record is 57k.

[@zerarch77]

What you described for gyro is also muscle memory, but for muscle groups which might not be used for mouse. The more muscles you can use for inputs, more precise those inputs can be.

[@HenrikMyrhaug]

​@@zerarch77 It is not really the number of muscles you use, it is how precise the muscles are. A gunman laying down will be more accurate than a gunman standing up, even though more muscles are used muscles when standing up. Mouse allows the use of wrists in addition to the fingers, but limits certain wrist movements. The gyro does not limit wrist movements(at least not with joy cons), so it allows more precise aiming, but it does not allow the same big range of motion as a mouse, meaning you still have to use the stick to aim, wich is much less precise than mouse for fast turns. A mouse also has the ability to stand still and not move, meaning it is possible to line up a shot and have it stay perfectly aimed, whereas that is hard (but possible) with gyro aim. TLDR: Gyro > Mouse > Stick for small movements, but mouse has other advantages.

[@pinospin9588]

but if the gyro drifted and you have to set deadzone for it you'll know how hard it is to make a slight movement

[@khaledassaf6356]

I watched this about a year and a half ago along with your video showcasing flick stick in Doom. Decided to give it a try. It sucked, couldn't hit a thing. I had to relearn everything, practice, and play with configs till I found what worked with me. Now it feels much more natural, and I'm better with gyro than I am with mouse, and can actually play comfortably for longer periods of time, which I couldn't with M/KB due to an old injury. Thank you for that!

[@rufex2001]

Nerrel brought me here! I am one of those who is amazed by the lack of OPTIONAL gyro aiming at the, say, PS4. Gamers need to be less obtuse and give it a shot. After some quick getting used to, there is no way it isn't better than using the stick. It's basically position vs direction + speed. Which one do you think makes more sense for aiming?

[@juancelzeg.mu.3555]

Una comparativa absolutamente genial !!! Me informó mucho :D

[@nebuluna78]

I find it interesting that in splatoon gyro is default and your handicapping yourself by using thumbstick, while some other shooters don't even have gyro options. Though it's probably just because it's a Nintendo game.

[@JibbSmartGD]

It's surprising how little Splatoon has influenced other shooters

[@geremysorlinigiguere9535]

@@JibbSmartGD What's even more surprising is how some people stubbornly refuse to use them on the sole basis of "ew motion controls" despite it being better by such a massive margin that it borders on shooting yourself in the foot to go stick only.

[@DiskusGames]

Gotta say though. The gyro aim in Splatoon isn’t ideal, since you can’t use the stick for vertical aiming anymore.

[@chan13153]

@@geremysorlinigiguere9535 I find Xbox players to be the most stubborn when it comes to embracing change. They go and yell about how amazing there controller is. How it's perfect and every way possible. "AA batteries are superior because in 5 years from now I won't be able to undo a few screws and replace the internal battery. I rather just keep buying AA's. Motion, get that waggle shit out of here." You try and tell them unscrewing a battery cover isn't hard and they tell you your wrong and you need an advance engineering degree to replace it. You tell them you don't have to swing your arms when using gyro aiming and they keep yelling wii, and how motion has been dead for years now. It's It really is like talking to a brick wall.

[@chan13153]

@@DiskusGames I find gyro on steam to be superior to all implementation of gyro I have seen on all switch games and PS4 games. What makes gyro so much better on steam is how much you can customize it. You can have it turned on only when aiming down the sights. You can change the sensitivity to make it much more sensitive. Most gyro aiming on the switch I find to not be sensitive enough and most games do gyro wrong. Fortnite for example theres too much of a dead zone for the gyro aiming making it very hard to do precise aiming. As you said with splatoon you can't use the stick for vertical aiming. Though the one big advantage with splatoon gyro compared to steam is the ability to recenter with a single press of a button. That is extremely useful and needs to be added on steam.

[@waynelok6831]

Splatoon and splatoon 2 should be an example on how to make gyro controls good Use analog for big movements Gyro for small movements No aim assist needed because gyro lets you move your aim better than sticks

[@JibbSmartGD]

Splatoon 2 is so much fun, but there's plenty of room for improvement on the gyro aiming :)

[@stevevee8332]

This looks cool, Imight try it out

[@notmoriarty2541]

What brought me to this video was your gyro / flick stick video on doom

[@seto007]

As a PC player of over a decade and a half who's started testing out Gyro, while I'm a lot more comfortable with a mouse in 99% of applications, one thing that I've really noticed is that gyro really beats out mouse when it comes to precise adjustments, like when adjusting a sniper shot to account for a target's movement. You can get better flick shots with a mouse, but the friction of a mouse pad makes subtle movements less precise.

[@JibbSmartGD]

Yeah, I'm with you. I'm pretty sure I hit smaller targets much better with gyro than with mouse

[@kulot1272]

I'd actually prefer using Gyro on consoles if I ever try playing FPS games in consoles. I play a lot of mobile games that has Gyro aiming in it such as Apex Legends Mobile and PUBG Mobile and I must say it's actually fun and helpful!

[@michaelcamacho3717]

Same here, playing CoDM and other mobile shooters usually with aim assist off but gyro enabled.

[@Ramishhh]

As someone who has played gyro both on mobile and ps5, gyro on mobile is a lil different than gyro on controller, not that much of a difference but yeah its a lil weird

[@CapyBardo]

I tested your program today and noticed a great reduce in the input lag, compared to steam controller configurator. You do a awesome job man! And thanks to introduce me to osu! Hahahaha

[@JibbSmartGD]

I'm so glad you like it! Thank you! :D About the lag with Steam -- if smoothing isn't already turned off, that might be the cause of your input lag there

[@teneesh3376]

So the moral of the story is that gyro is better then stick, but not as good as mouse. Still, an input for most games, I would use a controller with gyro aiming for shooting. It is a good all round controller. Now if only Microsoft will listen and PUT A GYROSCOPE IN THE XBOX SERIES X CONTROLLER. Also adding gyrp aiming to vanquish on the ps4

[@JibbSmartGD]

I think that's about the size of it. Come on, Microsoft!

[@teneesh3376]

@Andrew Spliffilin nuts I know. Would still love for more ps4 games have gyro and stick aiming in shooters. I still have hope that doom eternal on ps4 patches in gyro aiming

[@JibbSmartGD]

If you haven't seen it already, check out flick stick, which closes the gap even further: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eWavkIOuaMl5qqc

[@arabianchad4578]

Underrated Channel 😞💔

[@CapsuleCorpDude]

I just picked up a steam controller man they have gotten super expensive as of late! Very excited to try the Gyro out for the first time.

[@glenncolina4353]

Got here because I'm looking for PC games that implement motion aiming. I really hope what Nintendo did with BotW becomes the norm for all platforms, including PC

[@elman1610]

You can use motion aiming on any PC game by setting up your controls on Steam's controller settings. You basically just have to bind your mouse or right stick to the controller's gyro and then bind a button (usually the "aim gun" button) to enable the gyro. I do this all the time with a Switch Pro Controller. Even if it's not a Steam game, you can launch it through Steam and it'll work the same way.

[@glenncolina4353]

@@elman1610 Sounds interesting. I'll look into this. Meanwhile I've been using JSM and it works like a charm

[@IceBreak23]

@@glenncolina4353 you can use as Desktop controller on steam, also works, you are like emulating mouse + keyboard on controllers, it feels weird first time but works pretty well and the good part is... no more pain in the wrists lmao

[@darlingtonvelandzie5750]

MY GOODNESSN MAN... YOURE AMMMMAAAAZZINNNGGG

[@JibbSmartGD]

Thanks :)

[@eldiegoetc9257]

This is what I use to show why you should use motion controls in splatoon

[@xd-qi6ry]

I’ve been using gyro on pub g m for over 2 years now and it was pretty hard to get used to and very different because you prefer gyro over every other sensitivity but once you get used to it and good with it i really think you can become better than a mouse and keyboard player and really push the boundaries as when you combine the two your aim is always precise you will always hit headshots and lock on target tracking is 10000000x’s easier and there will virtually be bo recoil because when you are aiming with gyro you pull down with your finger inputs and as a result lowering vertical recoil while keeping a steady spread on target with the gyro controlling all angles. It’s definitely not for everyone and until you see results which might not be as fast as you’d like you most likely would have already gone back to your normal inputs. I’d sy the main successor of gyro is being able to hit very small targets at higher speeds as larger targets in most cases will either force you to turn too much causing you to increase your sens which will make you inconsistent in areas you want gyro to be used.

[@Creshex8]

Hi @Jibb Smart, After using gyro for a few years, I’d claim that even if a mouse might have a slight speed advantage with experienced users, the gyro seems considerably more precise at similar sensitivities. If the sizes of the balls were set to smaller and smaller, I think eventually the performance of a gyro would outperform a mouse.

[@ItsBoyRed]

i started practicing gyro aim seriously in Aim Lab 4 days ago using the SC, i`m already rank: Platinum I i have been using the SC non-stop for 1½ year now, for desktop and games, from CoD/BF to WoW/GW2. gyro and the right controllers are competitive! even against the "perfect" kb/m combo i dont believe kb/m to be the ultimate, but just the most intuitive for most people, and sadly most people dont care enough to really try something else.

[@ItsBoyRed]

steamcommunity.com/games/714010/announcements/detail/1682540619726231969 Diagram over all the ranks, its from 2018 so i dont know how it still holds up, but as far as i know its the only real info about ranks for now.

[@JibbSmartGD]

Nice work! I'm keen to see more and more people spend a lot of time with gyro aiming, and then we'll have a much better idea how things compare. But even as is, I'm confident it's good enough to replace thumbstick + aim-assist as the default on consoles.

[@ItsBoyRed]

@@mwwwww648 - wrong.

[@denisn8336]

@@ItsBoyRed is gyro that good?

[@ItsBoyRed]

@@denisn8336 yup

[@Wherezz]

Nerrel brought me here.

[@Iukrative]

Would love to know if you could use the gyro as another axis for space sim games like Star Citizen

[@watercat1248]

im curious what results are going to have if some use tuch pad a tuch screen or key a expected for thos 3 the tuch screen and tuch pad to have similar results and the keyboard keyboard to have the less accuracy for all others inputs

[@Refreshment01]

Great stuff, thank you. im assuming you were using a traditional 2 handed controller for the Gyro aiming part? i point this out because motion aiming specially in the X axis works better in a split type controller such as the Wii Remote or Joycon controller because the motion in that axis is less restricted. Would be interesting to see how much the Gyro aiming part would change if you practiced in that setup.

[@JibbSmartGD]

Thank you :) Yes, I'm using a 2-handed controller for gyro aiming -- the Switch Pro Controller. You can see it and everything I'm doing with it on the left side of the screen. Before I made this video, I was working on a comparison video between split Joy-Con, 2-handed controller, and mouse. I didn't include those here because, due to a bug at the time, the game mode had changed when I went to record thumbstick-only aiming, so I re-recorded gyro and mouse for this video. Single Joy-Con (held like a Wii Remote), while still probably much better than thumbstick aiming, was not anywhere near as good as 2-handed gyro aiming. You're right that there is more freedom of movement, but it doesn't make up for dramatically less stability. Players with much steadier hands might have different experiences to mine, but I've seen other players experiment with it and come to the same conclusion: 2-handed gyro aiming out-performs 1-handed. Your results might be different. If you wanna give it a go yourself, I'd love to hear how that goes!

[@Refreshment01]

@@JibbSmartGD For static targets @ a narrow angles like in this video 2 handed might be the way to go. But when you have moving targets @ wider angles the value of 1 handed increases, specially for leading targets in the horizontal axis. The thing with motion controls is that they are optimal when implemented in a split controller configuration, in a 2 handed configuration the potential is handicapped. 2 handed feels good when mostly limited to titling the controller for aiming vertically, but horizontal motion becomes quickly becomes awkward for wider movements. Also we should think beyond just aiming in shooting games, applications like UI/Interface navigation and alternate camera control methods benefit from a split configuration. Simply put the amount of available inputs at a given time and without unnecesary finger motions increases significantly, not to mention the motions are more natural. For example, something like having menu selections mapped to each hand independently in a game with vast menu options like an strategy game. Or having the option to lean the camera by rotating the left hand in a shooter.

[@JibbSmartGD]

I find that when I play 1-handed, I have to lower the sensitivity to get the stability and accuracy I need. This more than cancels out the wider angles I can move the controller 1-handed. You can get past this with acceleration (or sensitivity ramping) settings, or by using thumbstick aiming for the bigger turns -- whether playing 1-handed (or split) or 2-handed. Of course, thumbstick aiming is usually slow, so you can either crank up the sensitivity of the stick or use something like "flick stick" demonstrated in some of my videos (with DOOM, CS:GO, Quake, Halo, and others). Still, I do find that sometimes I'm chasing a moving target and find myself having to turn uncomfortably. I haven't yet found 1-handed settings that make this happen less often without sacrificing too much accuracy. Another solution is to have a button for inverting gyro so you can continue big turns. It takes getting used to, but it has lots of potential (this is demonstrated in my JoyShockMapper 1.4 update video). Again, you might do better 1-handed, but it is certainly not universally true that 1-handed out-performs 2-handed. I agree we should think beyond just aiming in shooting games. I have a video playing the rhythm game Osu, and other non-shooters like Age of Empires 2, Crayon Physics, and Cities Skylines feature in my JoySockMapper 1.4 video, JoyShockMapper 1.3, and videos on GyroWiki, respectively. I do want to explore more of the possibilities with split controllers. It's harder to test in real games that don't allow so many analog inputs at once, but when I have the time, I'm experimenting with prototypes that aren't ready to feature here yet.

[@docteurcontroller]

​@@JibbSmartGD ​Your conversation is very interesting and I have trouble finding it in the Steam Controller community. I've also given a lot of thought to the question of splitted controllers and I've also come to think that it would make sense for them to work better than two handed controllers. If I knew how to draw and manage electronics, I probably would have made at least two splitted controllers prototypes by now. I suggest you go and see my little movie about the Steam Controller, which I made two years ago now. Because I'm talking about this subject in its second part. In the last third of this second part more exactly. On the main page of my channel, you'll see this 2 parts-video directly, but in French version. But I subtitled it in English more recently to make it more accessible. It's called "What's Steam Controller ? And why use it ? To make a long story short, I would say that Estregan must be right, and somehow Gyro Aiming, you prove him right in this video. The mouse and keyboard are already splitted controllers for video games and the mouse is the most precise controller we have right now, and it's only held in one hand. Of course there's the table that stabilizes the aiming with the mouse, but that doesn't change the fact that small objects are made to be held with one hand and offer a much better range of motion this way than when they're held by two. And one more time, the mouse and every small object of the every day life made us remember that. Just imagine yourself turning off your tv by aiming it with a two handed controller instead aiming it with a one handed remote...? And the funny thing is that the mouse is a controller that's not made for video games in the first place. But that's the one that allows us to play them more precisely. It's still quite an ironic twist of fate. I won't dwell too much on it for now, but I'm glad I came across this channel and the two of you. Have a good day.

[@JibbSmartGD]

@@docteurcontroller Thanks for joining in! I think even more than the mouse portion of the video "proves" one-handed would be better, my experience actually testing and comparing one-handed "proves" otherwise. I was originally making a video that compared one-handed with two-handed, and completed the "experiment" which showed a big gap in accuracy. In the end I decided gyro vs traditional thumbstick-only aiming was a more important video to make. Now, I don't think my experiment proved anything once and for all. I'm just saying that the mouse performance doesn't prove anything about aiming one-handed without the support of a mousepad. Aiming a remote (which requires no precision whatsover) is different to aiming a gun (which is much more precise with two hands), and of course both of those are different from aiming a mouse and aiming a controller. A one-handed controller definitely, without question, offers more freedom of movement. A two-handed controller definitely, without question, offers more stability. And we can always trade one for the other by increasing or decreasing sensitivity. For me, for the same stability (by changing the sensitivity), I have better in-game range of movement with a two-handed controller. It's cool to see you're exploring interesting uses of controllers. I'm glad you joined the discussion! I haven't had the time to watch your video yet, but hopefully I will soon :)

[@daddykarlmarx6183]

I'm sure you could get similar results to mouse with gyro with enough practice, I think gyro is the future of controller gaming but I still rarely use it just because it's kinda confusing for me to use both the stick and the entire controller to aim

[@RealInnerG]

You think he hasn't practiced? 😂

[@poulpysplash1408]

Thank you for answering me, hoping that a gyroscope training software for Steam controllers players will see the light of day, and that you and your friends and family will be well.

[@JibbSmartGD]

Thank you very much :) You and yours, too

[@TheNinjaCrash]

It may not be easy to set up, but I'd like to see how the Wii's IR pointer would fair in this test.

[@kadebass6187]

It’s interesting seeing the gameplay with gyro then going to mouse because they look essentially the same but it just seems you’re more used to mouse so it appears merely sped up by like 1.25-1.5x which with analog sticks it looks nothing like either of them

[@FatheredPuma81]

Really sucks that Microsoft couldn't be bothered adding Gyro to the Xbox One controller. Have to get a PS4 controller because I want to try out Gyro aiming (and in general need a controller to replace my Xbox S controller). Pretty sad that Gyro isn't the stable for console gaming but I guess it would result in the skill level being raised too high for people used to having an aimbot...

[@oswaldotorre6047]

Ps5 and Nintendo and Steam must push harder devolpers to use it, then MS will be obligated to work it

[@TFx2TV]

Nice, sounds about right

[@elmerhouston5915]

I wish I could get used to gyro aiming.. anyone have any tips? It just feels so weird to aim w it.. I want to master it

[@palpee8820]

Turn off mouse smoothing and use it in games not made with controllers in mind (don’t play games with aim assist) to get you out of your comfort zone. What I found was playing the Stalker SoC was just perfect with gyro aim at 49% sensitivity on a ps5 or ps4 controller, using gyro for precision and the right joy stick for quick 180’s was great.

[@timbomb374]

Using gyro feels so good, i'm probably still better at mouse than gyro but i like the way it feels even more and i could imagine people becoming really good at it if they had even half as much practice with it as they do with a mouse

[@JibbSmartGD]

Yeah, it's a great balance of the comfort of a controller with somewhat mouse-like precision. I can't wait to see what people can do with it given more time!

[@timbomb374]

I find gyro to be more intuitive then mouse to aim but it dose have a down side of not being able to mitigate hand shake like a mouse. Though combined with down barrel sights it can be allot easier to manage. I think it dose great when used in tandem with a stick so you use the stick to get close to the target then do the more precise movements with the gyro

[@JibbSmartGD]

I agree. It's tough to rely on just the gyro, but in combination with a stick it does some cool stuff. If you haven't seen flick stick yet, it features in a few of the other videos on this channel.

[@rtd4413]

If you Have played or watch mobile games such as Pubg or Codm You'll see the full potential of gyro and thumb ish,,why i say thumb ish because mobile touch screen is way faster than Joysticks and that with gyro is as fast if not faster and more precise than mouse only downside is finding a hand placement that doesn't affect blood flow in hands

[@auringtail]

Analog sticks is the past, gyro is the future.

[@ratlinggull2223]

I discovered it while playing Dragon's Dogma on Steam. I'm surprised that there's not even a third party app on PS4 that supports the gyro, let alone devs actually implementing it in game.

[@danielwilliams3161]

hey I know this is old video and I know you created the new one about flick stick but you know cuz this is related to my question I just thought you know but anyways obviously I play on Uno the switch and I play obviously with a steam controller but like like what I'm trying to ask is is there a way to like somehow how convert or figure out and the philosophy and speed of the sensitivity of javelin because obviously I play like games like dragon games on the switch and obviously I've got on my laptop as well but I'm trying to find the right censored exact sensitivity to convert it for my Nintendo switch settings to the steam butterfly I can't find it at all it's like I don't know what it is but it's like on the laptop it just see if it seems better it feels it just feels better overall and it doesn't have have Chris MJ Lehman has on the switch have some weird grid effect but on using on the laptop is completely fine it feels it all hard to get used to because it was completely different like even me moving a slightly I didn't feel by like I think on on on the switch is like the delay it's like a really really small delay or a fool that Joel Eamon is not online us an exponential which basically makes no sense because what I mean is basically you know you're moving you know it's will life you know but it's like I'm trying to find that conversion rate and I still have tried I took her find it I don't know what it is is it like I can't find it at all like for example I'll give you free I tried to figure that out from the driver lehmann from the switch to the steam obviously on the steam one if it felt great amazing but when I try to convert that to the switch I just couldn't and it's like obviously another different because they're completely different but it's like even a fortnite I've got a perfect settings on fortnite obviously I wish Nintendo switch is a little bit faster but I still can't find the right sensitivity when I'm using my steam controller or even if I'm using my Nintendo my third party Nintendo switch pro controller on the PC you then steam using Bluetooth with driver I still can't find the right sensitivity and it's really frustrating because I really want to get this it's like I just don't know I don't know what if there was a way to convert it it will be great I'm sorry to post so long as probably short but you know

[@ZzVinniezZ]

technically speaking...gyro aiming is the way for console to adapt instead of thumb control as it is now

[@Sid271]

Dude if people started playing cod or pubg (pc version) with gyro everyone will become shroud

[@drewzi2044]

Hi, I was looking for a demonstration of motion controls on Borderlands and found your video. Gyro seems to be unfairly malined. I bought bioshock for switch and I hated the controls, thinking they should now implement gyro, but ken levine thinks they are gimmicky. Oh well

[@OneHandController]

very cool

[@JibbSmartGD]

Thanks!

[@lucaB88]

Which is the best gyro gamepad to buy now?

[@ThomasDailey]

I've done this comparison myself and scored much higher with Gyro than I did with Thumbstick. I can't say for sure that the same would be true for everyone, but at the very least I can say that Gyro makes aiming easier over Thumbstick for some people (like myself). And actually my Gryo scores were very close to my Mouse scores although to be fair I didn't try it very many times with the Mouse.

[@JibbSmartGD]

Yeah, I did the comparison without thumbstick a couple weeks prior, and Spidershot worked a bit differently -- targets could be much smaller, but they'd stick around a little longer. When accuracy was more important, my gyro score was much closer to my mouse score. I might have to try other modes to compare.

[@clairekelly3770]

i cant connect my controller i conected bluetooth to my pc my ps4 controller and nothing ... and aim lab doesnt let me

[@MoonSarito]

I really can't understand why it hasn't become standard yet, aiming using a motion sensor is much faster and more accurate than with analog, gyro helps a lot in FPS on consoles. I'm sad that even today there are very few games on PS4 or PS5 that use this (only Paladins and Days Gone come to mind), even games that have a Nintendo Switch version that offer gyro aiming like Fortnite and Doom Eternal don't have on PS4 for some reason.

[@hack_jammer]

Because the gyro hardware nintendo and sony uses hasn't been updated since 2006. I fixed that.

[@CinnamonOwO]

Not true though?

[@Vulcanfaux]

I hope one day the other two consoles will follow Nintendo and give the gyro aiming option in all games that can use it. Yall in PC can already use ot if yall want. But its ps4 and xbox players that still seem somewhat resistant. Hope you and other making similar videos talking about this stuff will slowly convince those still anti gyro to actually give it a shot. For me gyro is the biggest thing I want now that cross play seems to be achieved.

[@stoopidhaters]

Why would people be so resistant towards it? It literally makes you a better player.

[@cj_suaverino]

I used it for the first time on the switch when I got it and it was so amazing that now if I’m playing an FPS on PC it HAS TO be enabled. I love that I can just force any game to use gyroscopic aiming along with the thumb stick. Thanks Valve. It’s weird, Xbox controllers don’t have the capability but PS4 controllers do. How come PS4 games never use it Or the touch pad? Why did Sony cram so much stuff into the duelshock 4 but not use a lot of it?

[@nebuluna78]

Agreed, I struggle trying to play splatoon without gyro

[@Vulcanfaux]

@@cj_suaverino I think only 2 games use the gyro on the ps4, gravity rush 1 and 2. As for the touch pad, well outside of a few launch titles like kill zone, you are right, I have not seen any other game use it. Its a shame too cuz horizon zero dawn could have used it in the exact same way as breath of the wild.

[@JibbSmartGD]

I hear Days Gone uses it, too

[@naught_.]

How do you enable gyro aim with the Pro Controller on Aimlab? BTW, also came from Nerrel.

[@JibbSmartGD]

I'm using an open source program I created called JoyShockMapper. Nerrel probably used Steam's Controller Configurator. Either way, the gyro input is converted to mouse input so that AimLab thinks you're just using a mouse :)

[@littlehelix]

🙌🏼 ...gyro aiming is not only more precise than stick aiming, it also just feels way more natural. Don't understand why they didn't implement it in more games on playstation, it seems like such an obvious thing. Hope they will implement it in more games on the ps5. Also Last of Us 2 got a gyro update, it made the game really better for me.

[@aaroncsm]

Hi guys, currently im using ds4 on pc playing cod warzone and question is how do i setup the gyro to work in game? Hugely appreciate if anyone of you can provide me a link for the guide.

[@JibbSmartGD]

Hi! There's a general guide to setting up JoyShockMapper here: gyrowiki.jibbsmart.com/blog:joyshockmapper-guide There are configs for CoD here: gyrowiki.jibbsmart.com/games I don't think any Warzone specific configs are up yet, but they might be a good starting point. I play a little Warzone with my DS4, but haven't figured out the ideal config yet. I'll upload it when I do. I can't recall if Warzone lets you tell it to ignore the controller (so it doesn't interfere), but here's a guide on how to block your DS4 from the game: kzbin.info/www/bejne/inOqe42Vmp6smKs

[@solo4o6]

Holy crap the deadzone is crazy on the thumbstick. Never seen a thumbstick move so far to aim 2 feet away

[@JibbSmartGD]

No matter what the deadzone is, it has to move far to move quickly. That's one of the problems with thumbsticks.

[@GamingDreamer]

Remember that GYRO is a new thing while you playing with MOUSE for years now, same as any FPS player who used Thumbstick for years and now want to use mouse

[@JibbSmartGD]

For sure. Another thing is that I carefully tuned my thumbstick controls for this specific scenario. Real games have targets more spread out and much further away.

[@GamingDreamer]

@Bogodo on console it the best option and for someone like me who hate WASD for movement and can make it PC used both , this is better option too and even so, if Mouse is better for you someone my like Gyro more than mouse, so what we take the option away, it just small click to pick what you like

[@MGMan37]

@Bogodo I dont think the point of this video is to say that mouse is always superior, but rather that gyro gets you pretty damn close vs. traditional console stick aiming

[@Msf1011]

@@MGMan37 Exactly, we need a way to comfortably be able to aim with a controller since it's a more comfortable and intuitive device to use for gaming, and gyro makes that incredibly viable. Over the past few days I've committed myself to mastering gyro aim and I can already see that games like Wildlands, Zombie Army Trilogy and RE4 are INCREDIBLY fun and smooth to play with a controller now that I can aim so well. Mouse and keyboard will obviously still be superior, and in some more serious PvP competitive multiplayer shooters like CoD or Insurgency Sandstorm it is undoubtedly the way to go. But in many other games where you need to aim accurately, gyro aim makes playing on a controller far better, to the point where I'd say I'm comfortable using it over mouse and keyboard.

[@unggoyfarmer]

Great video! I tried out Aim Lab after watching this video and tried the tests out myself. Being predominantly a controller player, the setting options for the controller are pretty trash not gonna lie. even when dialing the settings and all, you cant eliminate deadzones which you can do in some xbox games like Halo MCC (to the point where there's stick drift in all directions), and you also cant really get the sensitivity that responsive/fast. I understand this is targeted towards mouse and keyboard and you have to adjust the mouse settings for the controller but I'm hoping they add true controller support in the future. I feel like if they at least let you do true 0% deadzones you'd have a huge bump in your accuracy.

[@JibbSmartGD]

Thanks for the feedback! I actually didn't use Aim Lab's controller settings. I did it with the same program I used for gyro aiming. It gives me complete control over deadzones, response curve, acceleration, etc. Deadzones seem to be a big obstacle to precise stick play, hey? I'm exploring the idea of removing deadzones and disabling aim assist as a way to let expert players get more out of controllers without the game offering them unfair help, while new players can play with big deadzones and aim assist to make it easier to pick up for the first time.

[@unggoyfarmer]

@@JibbSmartGD Honestly if they can completely remove deadzones in software and make actual quality analogue sticks on an elite controller without a physical deadzone that would be huge for the competitive controller gaming scene. Would love to see Gyro aiming incorporated into future elite controllers too.

[@TheDigitalAtlas]

Having issues setting up Aimlab with my Switch Pro controller for gyro practice. Can anyone offer some advice?

[@JibbSmartGD]

Are you setting it up through Steam's controller configurator? AimLab doesn't support gyro controls natively, last I heard

[@danielwilliams3161]

I just started watching it now and I heard your voice when you said the whole things on uniform stick and usually controller you sounded like Lowercroft when you're playing Tomb Raider 3 and you in back garden about to do the time trial that you sound so how can I would you call it now waiting for me or I'm not sure what the word is what you sound like that

[@JibbSmartGD]

Oh really? I haven't played Tomb Raider 3. I'll have to try find a clip of Lowercroft speaking :)

[@BakedKipling]

I picked up Splatoon 2 and thought that gyro was just a gimmick and quickly realised it was not. The Splatoon 2 players to this day are insane and truly a great example of skill that can be achieved with gyro aim

[@stryx_flame3973]

Did they recently update aim lab? All of the ball targets were same size in ur video but in the spider shot ultimate mode the targets vary in size. Or is there somewhere u can change that setting?

[@JibbSmartGD]

It appears it was a bug. When I had played it before and when I played it since the balls were different sizes and stuck around for longer. I think it is a different game mode as well, though. I just don't know which one.

[@jeronimo196]

It's in mode speed. Tasks -> Speed-> Spidershot.

[@KiLLJOY1056]

What Controller program software that was showing button presses and gyro movements?

[@JibbSmartGD]

It's not publicly available -- just something I made to use for my videos. Hopefully one day I'll finish it, but in the meantime someone else made a free one on Steam

[@Pedro_Le_Chef]

Horizon Forbidden West just released and it has gyro aiming settings for both the ps4 and ps5. Couldn't be more happier. Wish rdr2 had a gyro option for consoles as the tumbstick aiming is rockstar's worst in that game.

[@Rockyroad321]

Man Xbox really fucked up with the series x for not adding gyro

[@jaye7679]

Try comparing a normal mouse with a vertical mouse (I use Logitech MX Vertical). The vertical mouse should be even more accurate because you can pivot/anchor on your palm bone instead of the wrist where the skin slides more. It took me over a month to properly get used to the vertical mouse though.

[@JibbSmartGD]

Interesting. I just happen to have a vertical mouse that helped me when I had a wrist injury from too much use of the traditional mouse. A lot of players pivot from the elbow rather than the wrist, but off the top of my head I'm not sure what I do.

[@Khorvalar]

Found this through Nerrel's steam controller video!

[@JibbSmartGD]

Thanks for letting me know :)

[@nerdshadow3272]

My eyes could barely even keep up with your gyro and mouse gameplay. Did you speed the recording up at all to make the video shorter, or was that real-time?

[@JibbSmartGD]

That's real-time :)

[@nerdshadow3272]

@@JibbSmartGD I'm in awe at your skills!!!

[@JibbSmartGD]

Thanks very much! Practice helps, but I've got a lot of improving to do

[@sleepingturtle32]

Do you hold your controller in the air when using gyro?

[@JibbSmartGD]

Kinda. I usually have my forearms resting on my legs. As things get more intense I might lift it up more so I can move around more freely, but I'll usually recommend at least some support, like maybe supporting your elbows on your armrests. Some players have much steadier hands than I do and don't have to worry as much about that.

[@sleepingturtle32]

@@JibbSmartGD cool, I will try!

[@TheLiasas]

what controller were you using for this? since after the vanilla xbox ive never used a controller for games again, but now im feeling like trying them back and would like both an assymetrical design (as the xbox's) but gyro seems like a must too since I do appreciate being accurate... and since the model thingy that shows your controller input is assymetrical with gyro... :P

[@JibbSmartGD]

For this I was using the Switch Pro Controller :) It's pretty good, but it might feel a bit stuttery if you play at high framerates on a high refresh rate monitor (70Hz or higher). Also its triggers aren't analog. But if you don't mind those it's a good controller. Another way is to use an Xbox One controller with a Brook X One Adapter, but that becomes an expensive combo

[@TheLiasas]

@@JibbSmartGD tyyyy so much for the reply. hmm I would like to be able to play at 144hz snappily + have analogs for the tangential speed control. also would like to not have to spend that much as it may end up not being my cup of tea... I checked the X one adapter you mentioned, If thats the veeeeeeery best option I could see myself going for it, tho looking at its features I worry about: does it keep working after the internal batt inevitably gives up the ghost? ive looked around for other options, and this one is catching my eye, but Im worried about the mention of how it connects to pc only via bluetooth, like isnt the bt polling rate too slow for this purpose? www.amazon.com/Controller-PS4-Wireless-Playstation-Vibration/dp/B07QR7ND4X/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=asymmetrical+ps4+controller&qid=1603609703&sr=8-2

[@TheLiasas]

aaactually nvm. I just rechecked that and it seems it doesnt has a gyro (or isnt mentioned) guess i was too sleepy when I saw it yesterday

[@JibbSmartGD]

Some third party controllers don't work with JoyShockMapper, which is what I use, so I can't vouch for them. The gyro gaming discord has lots of users of different controllers who can give recommendations, though

[@clairifedverified2513]

I find it so frustrating that BOTW is perfectly made to get somebody who thinks gyro is bad to straight up hate it. Of course, gyro aiming in that game is INFINITELY better than just using the stick, no matter what you're doing. More precision, faster camera movements, it's just... Better. But of course, somebody who doesn't like gyro because they haven't used it would just turn it off. But, later, there are some shrines that CAN NOT BE COMPLETED WITHOUT USING GYRO. Now, normally that would be fine, right? Well, instead of doing small, subtle movements, the rotation of the switch translated DIRECTLY to the rotation of the on-screen object. And, not only do you have to turn the console away from you, and twist it in weird directions, the controls are set up in such a way that it doesn't actually directly translate, instead twisting the console left and right will turn the object up and down, and then panning up and down will move it an entirely different direction. So, you have to do massive, completely imprecise movements in order to complete the shrine. Remember, this is BOTW, which also has (in my opinion) one of the best examples of gyro aiming I've ever used. It feels so satisfying to pop four midair bow headshots with gyro, and yanking a chest out of the ground or smashing a metal crate into the floor just feel so good. Guess Nintendo will be Nintendo.

[@JibbSmartGD]

Yeah, it's a real shame that when someone says "gyro aiming" people say "like the ball mazes??" 😭

[@MrHerky61]

This will be a long one; I’ve been working on my gyro. Hi, Thankyou so much for flick stick and your great tutorials, I’ve been enjoying gyro aim quite a bit but I have problem I cant solve. I’m afraid it’s just a permanent weakness of gyro aim. When I pull the trigger (or press the bumper) I bump my aim off target slightly. This is horrible for semi auto weapons that require repeated tapping. And anticipating the shot usually results in worse results. I’ve tried maximizing the minimum movement threshold which reduces but not solves the problem and also makes the movements feel a bit delayed, I’ve tried dampening the gyro on trigger pull which does not solve the problem as the shaking happens both on pull and on release, I’ve got decent trigger control (I’m also a real shooter and that helps, and firmly gripping the control with counteracting forces has honestly been the biggest help which is also a real shooter thing) but it feels a little excessive to rely on personal mental and physical exertion on par with my 1 MOA 100 yard shot groupings to play a video game. You make trigger control seem so easy and idk what it is. I currently have my gyro setup through steam big picture mode.

[@MrHerky61]

Oh, and I currently use my bumpers as my triggers because a shorter crisper trigger is better (also a real gun fact but I think we all knew that one from gyro too)

[@JibbSmartGD]

Hi! I appreciate the amount of practice required to hold a gun steady and not pull your aim off when firing. This is something I've never been very good at. With gyro, it also takes practice, but perhaps the skills don't transfer, since a controller is much lighter, players don't need to brace against recoil, and the buttons/triggers are much lighter. I'm afraid I have no advice to offer here, but my personal experience that I don't have particularly steady hands, and keeping the controller steady while firing was something I had to be very conscious of when I first started. But it got better over time, and now I don't really think about it. I don't really mind that players need to train to get good at this kind of thing -- it's the same (and typically worse!) with traditional stick controls. It probably helps that I play with a relatively low sensitivity (I play with 1-2, while a lot of better players player with 3-4, and some as high as 6). But I don't think I'll ever be able to play at that level with that high sensitivity. How long have you been playing with gyro controls?

[@CandarianGaming]

Always make sure you hold the controller resting in your lap to hold it in place and only ever use the bumpers for aim and shoot. For semi auto weapons/pistols, set up the right trigger for rapid fire in steam. So you just hold the trigger and it just keeps firing as fast as you set it. Then whatever was suppose to be on the right trigger just assign it to the touchpad for example

[@themarauder8006]

I hate games whit out gyro now

[@poulpysplash1408]

Is the sensitivity of the splatoon 2 gyroscope available on this game?

[@JibbSmartGD]

Good question. I don't think so, since this game doesn't have gyro controls -- I'm using a program of my own to convert gyro input to mouse input. The other issue is Splatoon's sensitivity scale is really weird. Most games just need some kinda multiplier to convert between scales, but Splatoon's wouldn't work like that.

[@cmnweb]

i remember being very accurate with the wiimote

[@allahbless2278]

Not the same,new one are alot more accurate

[@FatheredPuma81]

I don't. Input was way too sensitive and could just lose you at any point.

[@Fire-in-the-sky]

@@allahbless2278 nah, wii notes are still more accurate than gyro controllers

[@allahbless2278]

@@Fire-in-the-sky wii mote plus/switch nunchuks sure. Regular ones nah

[@Fire-in-the-sky]

@@allahbless2278 I never tried regular ones but the motion plus ones are much better than my steam controller

[@stoopidhaters]

Did you use a Kontrol Freek when using the stick? They do make a difference but still aren't as good as Gyro Aiming. You should also try a Track Ball mouse. Another problem with the current gen analog sticks is the tension. Previous controllers especially the 360 Controller had a higher spring tension where as the Xbone Controllers tension is lower resulting in a slippery stick thus shitty aim.

[@JibbSmartGD]

I hadn't heard of Kontrol Freek. I was just using the regular thumbstick. I can see how that'd help. I'd be interested to try a trackball. Do you use one?

[@stoopidhaters]

@@JibbSmartGD Never used a track ball, but they've been around for a while since the Arcade days. They look like they'd take a while to get used to. Someone actually made a trackball mod for a 360 controller. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYOud6KAqLqJZ80

[@JibbSmartGD]

I've seen that before. I forgot how cool it is, though :) That could be a real game-changer!

[@stoopidhaters]

@@JibbSmartGD Indeed, the Steam Controller originally was gonna use track ball but changed to mouse pad.

[@smnvalex]

It would be interesting to see the comparison if you played games as much with gyro as with keyboard and mouse.

[@JibbSmartGD]

I think so, too. I play games almost exclusively with gyro now, but I don't have time to play much at all, and it's hard to compete with many more years experience with keyboard and mouse

[@KinkajouJL]

now it's up to the wiimote pointer

[@JibbSmartGD]

Yeah, if I had one I'd love to see how it compares

[@pl.com.org.net.pl.]

What is the game that you were testing on called?

[@JibbSmartGD]

It's called Aim Lab. It's free on Steam: store.steampowered.com/app/714010/Aim_Lab/

[@MrHerky61]

How do you deal with the shaking caused by pulling the trigger?

[@CandarianGaming]

Using the bumpers for aim and shoot. Plus your controller should sit firmly in your lap at all times to hold the controller in place

[@LoCoSHINOBI]

Why did you switch LB Shoot for Thumbstick to RB Shoot for Gyro? I personally use L1 PS5 shooting myself.

[@JibbSmartGD]

I'm more used to RB, but with nothing else for my left hand to do, found LB better when my right hand has to do all the aiming on its own with the stick. With gyro, both hands are doing the aiming, so in this case I saw no advantage switching from my usual trigger finger :)

[@massognagna]

The bumpers have less travel time compared to the triggers, and this makes you shake less which is good for gyro

[@ChainsawGutsFuck]

I only use controllers in shooters that have "snap aim", like RDR2, because it feels more natural for a character like Arthur to be able to aim a rifle better than I can with a controller while being more comfortable to RP walk / interact with the world using a controller for everything else. For more competitive shooters like CS:GO or Overwatch, or online game modes that require fast reactions and accuracy against players, mouse and keyboard every time.

[@Z3t487]

So, your argument is: "I suck at aiming with the rifle (using mouse and keyboard) and for lore reasons it would make no sense for Arthur to be a bad shot, got you. The real answer ihmo is always the same: "git gud". Try a lower sensitivity/DPI...

[@stoopidhaters]

The main reason joystick aiming is not precise is you can't stop the input right away. Now on Steam Big Picture Mode you can convert the Right Stick to give out Mouse Inputs, preferably you will wanna use Mouse Region and set a large radius. What this will do is turn your Joystick into a Track Ball except the 'Track Ball' doesn't freely spin so your Look/Aiming will be restricted within a Radius of Mouse Input, but wait, you can Bind Buttons/Keys to toggle between custom inputs so what you could do is Bind say L2 (Hold Aim) to turn Mouse Input on, then when you stop aiming, back to normal Joystick aiming.

[@edoardo3717]

Very cool video, since it highlights the strengths of gyros and I love them! But what if gyros were the input system known and assimilated for decades and mouse the new one? Maybe your accuracy % would be inverted? (81% with gyros and 77% with mouse). Not gonna say that gyros are better than mouse, but I feel like with the right practice and time you can minimize the distance between gyro performances and mouse performances. This video shows us that every shooter on console should implement gyros and that if implemented well, we can (and should) ask for crossplay on every game.

[@JibbSmartGD]

For sure! Maybe in the near future we'll have players growing up on gyro aiming, and we'll see what they can do with it!

[@neilparkinson851]

I just got a switch with rogue company and I wanna learn how to use gyro but it's so confusing to me. I guess what I will do is set the vertical right analog sensitivity to the lowest setting and use it for turning, but it seems there is no gyro off function so that's annoying. I don't really want to learn to use gyro by just using it only as a supplement to analog aim. I want to do what you do with it. Sadly I don't know if it's possible. It will be some time before I can get a PC. Idk what to do.

[@JibbSmartGD]

I've tried reaching out to them asking for a gyro off button, but I don't know of any way to really reach the developers directly. Keep asking, I guess? I like that RC has gyro controls on PS4, Switch, and PC, but there are some really simple opportunities for improvement

[@neilparkinson851]

@@JibbSmartGD do you think it could be viable to use the ADS as a gyro off function. So whenever I ADS, gyro works?

[@JibbSmartGD]

I tried that for a bit, and felt that I still needed some control when firing from the hip. I'm glad they have the option, and I think it's a good option to have. You should probably give it a go and let me know how it goes :)

[@9mmfederalrimmed235]

Which gyro aim controllers are there? I can not find many at amazon. I just bought 2 Logitech F310 controllers and can't hit a shit since Enlisted has no Aim Assist and I was an newbie for the controllers and had no clue. Sure any gyro aiming will replicate basically the mouse (till now I was k+m gamer) and would make life so so much easier. I could bang my head not have knewn this gyro aiming is the only way to go.

[@JibbSmartGD]

PlayStation's DualShock 4 and DualSense are probably the most popular and best supported on PC. Steam can convert gyro from Switch Pro Controller and I think Joy-Cons to mouse as well

[@9mmfederalrimmed235]

@@JibbSmartGD I see the Nintendo Switch Pro has an gyro aiming functionality. But will it work as well with PC (game is Enlisted)? I would rather use an wired game controller since the battery will fail as planned obsolescence. I have 2 Logitech F310 controllers and as an newbie I had no clue how important the gyro aiming was till I tried these F310's and could not hit a shit.

[@the_wretched]

Man... You gotta stop trying to convert everyone. In this age of cross-play, I'm loving feeling like a CoD god on my PC, hahaha. Awesome video. You've actually made me extremely curious about gyro aiming. I'm even considering converting BACK to controller since discovering your videos. I used to think the Xbox Elite V2 was the best controller around. If it had gyro aiming, it most assuredly would be.

[@notturok7841]

That gyro is giving me some duck hunt vibes

[@TamarinPamarin]

There needs to be triple A console multiplayer game with gyro option and no aim assistant. After that everyone will switch to gyro.

[@KevinGeneFeldman]

I've never played any kind of gyro aiming that didn't feel like I was dragging a delayed cursor across the screen. That and the fact that I still had to control continuous camera movement with another disjointed method at the same time made it too frustrating. Like splatoon. I hate dual analogue for aiming, all I can stand to do is mouse and VR

[@JibbSmartGD]

The gyro controls here are tighter and more precise than Splatoon, even though it's the same controller :)

[@Waddlejpg]

The wii's infered is the best

[@sagarsingh4863]

How much change your controller setting on Aim Labs?

[@JibbSmartGD]

I tweaked them a lot to find the right settings for thumbstick aiming that'd work particularly well in this scenario. For gyro I have standard settings that I use in most games, so I just used those, but probably could've done better if I fine-tuned them to better suit this scenario. All the settings were done in JoyShockMapper.