Thylacoleo: The biggest biter ever.

[@davidhughes4189]

Just discovered this channel today. I'm a real junkie for Pleistocene megafauna, so it's great to hear an authoritative analysis from someone who's spent years studying and publishing work on these animals. Look forward to more videos!

[@RealPaleontology]

Thanks! I'll keep them coming!

[@ambiguousworld]

Brilliant stuff, mate. I came across two Joeys in a dry creek bed in South Gippsland a few years ago. As I stoodd in-between two black boy plants, I disturbed two sleeping animals (middle of the day). As I put my foot down, they both darted away from me in two different directions in front of me. I chased the one on my right. I got a good look at it. It was around 1ft high and 1 1/2ft wide. However, it had a very thick tapering tail around a 1ft long and ran on all for feet, not hooping like a swamp wallaby. It had no stripes but was dark chocolate brown with a big head and rounded ears on the top of its head. The animal ran along the game trail, but once it noticed I was chasing, it ran off into the chest high thick bush. I could see the tops of this bush moving as the animal moved through it. It then stopped running as I couldn't see the bushes moving. I then noticed the bush moving on the other side of the dry creek bed, in the direction of where the 2nd animal had ran. I ran over to see if I could see it. Sadly, it stopped moving as I ran over to it, and I never got another glimpse. I decided to wait and see if they came back out and found a fallen log and sat on it. After a few minutes I heard a whimpering noise, I made sure that it wasn't the birds in the over head foliage. They then started whimpering like puppy dogs at each other across the creek bed. It's was like they were checking each other out to see if each other was OK. As a Geologist (who has studied Palaeontology), I knew of Thylacoleo. I believe the 2 animals I saw that day were Thylacoleo Joeys. Subsequently, I've found track lines and taken casts which no one in Australia (universities, museums etc) is willing to tell me what they are. "Never seen anything dead or alive that looks like that. Not Canine, wombat, quoll or cat. Very unique. Must be Canine then" are the usual responses. The only animal that I believe could have track lines with paws bigger than my hand is Thylacoleo. I believe Thylacoleo is still alive in South Gippsland.

[@RealPaleontology]

Will that shore is interesting, and rest assured no one would be more thrilled to find that marsupial lions hadn't gone extinct than me.

[@RealPaleontology]

Sheesh. Excuse my spelling! Didn't have my glasses on!

[@ambiguousworld]

@RealPaleontology I have a new phone which is trying to predict everything I write, so all good. 👍

[@Worthyfool]

I'm not often impressed by the youtube algorithm but this is an absolute gem for it to recommend to me. Interesting video indeed! I'll be keeping an eye on this channel!

[@RealPaleontology]

Terrific! I'll keep them coming!

[@Thlaylie]

Don't forget that the lower Jaw was articulated to keep those bolt cutter teeth aligned during a bite. The front septum separates almost a centimeter as the lower jaw opens. This is my only beef with the brass skull simulation. I wish this articulation had also been modeled.

[@RealPaleontology]

Fair point. And, ideally, we would have set it up so that the 'carnassials' on one side of the jaw were tightly aligned to enable a more realistic fully scissor-like slicing action. But this would have been impossible with the resources at hand.

[@Nebula_Ultra]

Found a great channel right at its inception. Awesome. Looking forward to every future video.

[@RealPaleontology]

Glad you like! I'll keep em coming

[@Gunslinger-tf9qk]

Already watched your videos. Comment for the algorithm. Love the content so far.

[@Rakotacivet]

So glad to see you're making a youtube channel now! My partner and I have been following you for what feels like a decade. "You call that a carnassial" shirts when

[@RealPaleontology]

Jeez... thanks so much!

[@russethelm5907]

Great stuff! The one thing that I would ask is for either text references in the notes below the video, or a link to the same on your website or Google drive. The references are very difficult to make out when they are only in the video itself.

[@RealPaleontology]

Good point. I'll put a reference list in future vids.

[@Macynlace]

Subscribed , loved this fact based video with actual papers to support the conclusions . Can't wait to see the Megalania video !

[@RealPaleontology]

Great. Glad you liked my 1st attempt at a KZbin video! I aim to publish 1 per week. And yup, Megalania is next....

[@Tigerbearwolf8600]

I can’t get enough palaeontology or paleoanthropology, thank you!

[@RealPaleontology]

Thank you!

[@paleo-zoo-keeper-association]

A wonderful video, especially on one of my favorite extinct species. I am planning on making a video on this animal next year, but since you studied the material and know more about the animal, I feel like I should ask you this: If it was a lie today, would it be able to hunt a good chunk of a large invasive species that roam Australia today? Species such as: -Dromedary Camels -Water buffalo -Deer (from hog deer to red deer) -Banteng -Feral pigs -Donkeys -Brumbies (feral horses) -Feral cattle -Feral goats

[@RealPaleontology]

Thank you. I certainly think it would have been able to kill any of these animals, whether it could catch them I'm not so sure.

[@axesofoz717]

Fantastic presentation! I wonder what kind of vocalisations Thylacoleo might have made. If it sounded anything like a koala, it must have been one of the scariest things imaginable at that size.

[@RealPaleontology]

Thanks heaps! To be honest I doubt we'll ever know what a marsupial lion sounded like. Most marsupials don't usually make a lot of sound. But if it did make a sound like a koala it certainly would have been way louder. And of course Tasmanian Devil's can make a horrendous sound too. At that up by a factor of 10 or more and sure you have the sound from hell!

[@erikringdal844]

Please continue. By the way I once read that thylacoleo even Got included in an Australien book of natural history!

[@RealPaleontology]

I certainly will! And high school kids are now actually taught about the marsupial lion. Incidentally I just put up new video on Smilodon.

[@RichardBryce-c9i]

I love that shoulder mount Thylacoleo on the wall behind you

[@RealPaleontology]

Yeah, me too! It's actually built around a cast of a real skull, I think it's the best reproduction around. A guy called Jeff Johnson did it some years ago. An excellent job!

[@stanleyhyde8529]

Before you get to how you think the marsupial lion killed it's prey I'd like to take a crack at it and see how we match up. As big as it could get, there was still a great number of things on which it could have fed that could badly hurt or kill it in a face to face encounter. I think it hunted like a cougar, from above. A 200-pound cat will jump from as high as 25 feet up a tree to bring down an elk almost 5 times it's size if it's hungry enough. I see no reason why a similarly sized animal (in what is most likely a similar niche) going after likewise large prey wouldn't use a similar tactic. I'm pretty sure the cougar goes for the back of the neck to break the spine but I figure the throat is a lot softer and easier to get at if the target can be pinned down for a moment. How'd I do? Edit: Just so I'm clear. I'm not suggesting that it spent much time in trees, or that it was even interested in small game. It's just something that cougars, mountain lions, pumas (different names, same animal) are known for. Is it a good way to get hurt? Absolutely. However it gets them food a lot of the time. I would think thylaco leo would be even better at I with the apposable digits. Fantastic video though. Cheers

[@RealPaleontology]

Hey thanks! To be honest I'm not sure that the cougar regularly jumps from trees onto its prey. This doesn't seem to be widely reported in the scientific literature. If you've seen it I love to know about it! They don't often carry their catches into the trees either like leopards do. They are incredibly athletic though that's for sure and can jump metres into the air.

[@surgeonsergio6839]

5:45 Okay, Marsupial Dundee, okay.

[@RealPaleontology]

Okay

[@RonaldOrenstein]

Interesting presentation. I am curious as to what the intermediate stages would have been in the evolution of the Thylacoleo bite (ie in smaller thylacoleonids not yet able to tackle large prey).

[@RealPaleontology]

Good question. I have a PhD student collecting data that will be relevant here. But my speculation is that the offspring must have stayed with the mother until those massive sectorial third premolars were fully erupted. Basically, until they were large enough to tackle pretty large prey.

[@RonaldOrenstein]

Thanks for this. Actually I was not thinking of the development of the teething single growing animal but on the evolutionary progression of the taxon. For example, did smaller early thylacoleontids have large shearing carnassials as well (and if so what would they have used them for) or did they not appear until species in the lineage have gained enough size and weight to tackle (say) a diprotodontid or a Palorchestes? And by the way - are you planning a talk on Thylacosmilus by any chance?

[@RealPaleontology]

@@RonaldOrenstein there's been a gradual progression toward increased size of the meat slicing teeth, and an increase in absolute size off the animal. Thylacoleo was the largest and most specialized. And I will definitely do Thylacosmilus!

[@brettcurran7075]

Very glad to see you have made a youtube channel and covered my favorite animal! Are there any drawings or pictures online that you believed it would have resembled it the most? Thanks and looking forward for future videos.

[@RealPaleontology]

Thanks! I think that Peter Schouten's is the best artistic reconstruction. The one behind me on the wall is the most realistic of its head. It was built around a complete cast of the skull.

[@brettcurran7075]

@@RealPaleontology Thanks for the reply! I was also curious what species of smilodon was the skull you showed.

[@ferengiprofiteer6908]

Outstanding! I'm plugged in. 😎

[@RealPaleontology]

Awesome, thanks!

[@pef1960]

Excellent. More paleo-metatherian goodies, please!

[@RealPaleontology]

You got it. I'll be covering super-predators from Thylacoleo to T. rex. Thylacosmilus the metatherian sabertooth is definitely on the list...

[@ericdubert5983]

Love the video, very cool animal. One question I would pose on the back of evolution not liking wasted energy. What's up with the tail? Long tails usually have a purpose, propulsion in water, counterbalance, high speed navigation on land or in the air, or as a food reservoir for lean times to name a few. What are the odds of even a semi aquatic lifestyle? placing it in more direct competition with crocs? or at least overlapping territories? To me the Thylacoleo looks much more like a member of the mustelids, more specifically the giant river otter. At 100 kgs it would make the giant river otter look like a toy, but the teeth have a passing similarity at least. Just a thought.

[@RealPaleontology]

Yes, you are right, it does have a very well-developed muscular tail. Current thinking on this is that it was used for extra stability forming a tripod with the two back legs when it wrestled with prey.

[@SyIe12]

👍⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐THANK YOU FOR THE ADEQUATE, THOUGHTFUL ANALYSIS ON THE SUBJECT.

[@RealPaleontology]

Hey no problem and thanks!

[@noelthorley3248]

Nice work

[@RealPaleontology]

Thanks mate!

[@stevenrozakis5269]

Great channel man !! Subscribed !

[@RealPaleontology]

Thanks mate!

[@jacksonmoore5696]

@@RealPaleontology if you're still doing paleontological CTS trying to understand biomechanics of animals would you do one on the Cuban giant owl ornimegalonyx? Like simulate its skeleton flying and pouncing on a giant ground sloth, I don't know whether that owl kill rodents by pouncing on them or using its beak to kill larger prey

[@RealPaleontology]

​@@jacksonmoore5696 Awesome bird! But I’m afraid there’s not much I can do without CT scans of it.

[@jacksonmoore5696]

@@RealPaleontology do you believe Terror birds I mean the big ones would go after big game? I believe they would because carnivores of their size and metabolism just simply can't be sustained off small rabbits and rodents.

[@jacksonmoore5696]

Also about it dropping down from a tree, if it's pouncing on a prey item, wouldn't the prey item break its fall and therefore reduce the risk of injury and make such an arboreal ambush tactic more feasible? Because like so many of his prey items like the short faced kangaroo the Giant macropus kangaroos and genyornis we're much much taller than it I don't know how it could topple them down from just being low to the ground bouncing down from a tree would give it the necessary momentum

[@RealPaleontology]

Anything is possible. And I certainly don't suggest that it may never have happened, just that it is unlikely to be its primary method of attack.

[@jacksonmoore5696]

@@RealPaleontology also I kind of take it back I can kind of see how it might get the kangaroos cuz they have their tails on the ground and if the marsupial Lion pounced on the tail that would compromise their balance and knock the kangaroo on to the ground and give thylacoleo the moment of opportunity it needed But at the same time there were many reptile predators coexisting with it, and whether it be venomous bites serrated teeth and armored skin and Superior size, thylacoleo would be screwed if it was truly nothing but a ground Hunter. Hunting from the trees would give it the perfect safe spot

[@jacksonmoore5696]

@@RealPaleontology also where do you ever able to figure out the marsupial Lions gape? In degrees, like if a marsupial lion had a 10-inch long head how many inches wide can it open its mouth

[@jacksonmoore5696]

@RealPaleontology I'd also like to point out how Australian eucalyptus has thicker branches than other trees because of the harsh climate, thicker branches that could in theory better hold the weight of Thylacoleo

[@RealPaleontology]

As I note in this episode, the role of reptilian predators as in my view been wildly overestimated. That said, although I don't think that the marsupial lion regularly attacked from trees, I do think it may well have carried its kills up trees and a leopard like fashion.

[@KS-hj6xn]

Any teeth marks found on bones of the lion's meals??

[@RealPaleontology]

Some have been reported, but not yet confirmed.

[@pbh9195]

That bust, damn nature you scary

[@RealPaleontology]

Thanks.

[@cernunnos_lives]

I'm hoping they can bring back somehow lol. I want good looks into the world our ancestors would've seen. It's important we never forget the world they knew. It's a world that shaped the things we know today (if we know it or not). I want to honor this and that world they lived in.

[@RealPaleontology]

Awesome!

[@SamSays101]

Awesome content

[@RealPaleontology]

Thanks!

[@OsbertCook]

I give this video like and hope you will run ads to promote your nice channel

[@RealPaleontology]

Thanks thanks!

[@5ty717]

Excellent… i tell you, without any reasoning expectation that you will believe, my timber cutter g.father who spoke of an exitent ‘breed family’ of these marsupial lion cats in Colac- Timboon Vic. 70 - 90 years ago. Reject extinction nah but he was a aboriginal and expert bushman. Btw thylacine extinction was loosely applied when no formal means were available to establish this high bar. If thylacine cynocephalis robustis can sneak under the radar in our vast but miserly populated land, what does it say for thylacaleo and specialist camouflage hominids like the bunyip… to be clear thylacine extinction was no more than a wrong headed reclassification in the light of government pressure to eliminate the sheep poultry murdering marsupial ‘pest’….and journalistically applied as a sad assumption bereft of any underpinning evidence. … Ol stripy are quite likely non-extinct in Tassy and never were near extinction elsewhere Ol stripy is highly endangered. What then of your beautiful ‘drop-bear’ the thylacaleo…. Australia was the one and only Gondwana. And it still is… Still is the ONE N ONLY… Roar…

[@RealPaleontology]

Glad you liked it! Personally I don't think Thylacoleo is still around, although I'd love to be wrong! I do think there may be a population of big cat escapees out there.

[@Richard-gy1pq]

Bigcats here 100% I believe I saw thylacaleo. My mate filmed it on thermal drone but we weren't silly to try to get close. Mr Paleozoic should take a look at it.

[@pef1960]

The skull makes it look fairly small brained?

[@RealPaleontology]

Yup. It was relatively small-brained compared to living cats. I published a paper on this in 2003. Its average brain volume was 116 ml. It's about 125 in a leopard. Still, 116 is very big for a marsupial..

[@appelbashir9841]

A wonderful video, but are you sure, as you mentioned at 1:50 that "Thylacoleo was the biggest mammalian predator that Australia has ever had"? We know relatively much about the Pleistocene era, but very little about mammals from the period paleocene - miocene. The biggest found Thylacoleo (Thylacoleo carnifex) was around the size of a Jaguar, not that much in my opinion. I mean maybe a real big marsupial/monotreme "bear" will be found, as big prehistoric bears are found on most other continents?

[@RealPaleontology]

Well of course there may well have been a larger predator. Who knows what might turn up in the fossil record! It would be awesome if we did find something bigger! We do actually have a pretty good fossil record in Australia from the late Oligocene on. But there is a huge gap between the Eocene and then. I would debate the point that a Jaguar size predator is not big. There are only three terrestrial hypercarnivoes larger than that today, if you include the polar bear. And there is also the issue of land mass area and isolation. For an isolated landmass the size of Australia, it may will be that it could not have supported a mammalian carnivore much larger than this. I wrote a paper on this topic 2004. Happy to send a copy like?

[@appelbashir9841]

​@@RealPaleontology Thank you for the feedback. I really appreciate the information you sent me and you are welcome to send me a copy of the paper :)

[@RealPaleontology]

@@appelbashir9841 no worries I'll need an email address?

[@RealPaleontology]

Great thanks gunslinger! Smilodon is next. I'm thinking megalodon on New Zealand's giant eagle after that.