TIER LIST for Secondary Skills after the update!

[@davida.1249]

Next do a 'best heroes' tier list, since so many heroes got buffed.

[@aabeeek]

Dury vs Tazar Let's gooo

[@josephmueller3752]

Moandor finally S tier

[@Cecekcz]

Babe wake up, new tier list just dropped!

[@RenegadeVile]

Babe, wake up, this comment stopped being funny 5 centuries ago!

[@ZePicso]

Thank you for the update Lexiav ! Funny how you changed your opinion on certain skills like water magic Even witout changes in the last update! By the way it’s so cool that there is no D tier anymore in my opinion too! The changes this patch brought are for the BEST ! I’m a huge fan of your tier list ❤ you are one of the main reason I love to do it my self ! A huge huge thank you ! Nevet stop tier listing 🎉🎉🎉

[@Voicelet]

Why Artillery is still not combined with Ballistics is beyond me... Estate could be buffed by increasing units production up to tier 6 at level 3, or give 1/2/3 of each magical resource I guess? It wouldn't to be as strong as Statue of Legion or Cornucopia, but if you're wasting a skill slot it'd be better than a dead skill.

[@Patr1kc]

You can't do that with estates tbh, or it would be broken on side heroes in normal formats

[@danielkirpichnikov2007]

@@Voicelet 1,2,3 magic resources every 5 days, and type of resources changes after that in cycle, so 20 days to get all 4 types.

[@stassenchr]

Totally agree with you on ballistics and artillery, should combine with first aid

[@Gurukay]

@@Patr1kc How about Estate skill giving extra gold AND cheaper units/cheaper buildings (hero needs to be in town) but it can not stack with other heroes having estate skill(like having 1000 resources each day, 15% cheaper units (gold) and 15% cheaper buildings (gold) at expert estates.

[@mikebaker3712]

If I get Artillery with a hero with good defense skill I want Archery on that hero and use him for castle defense.

[@mega_asasin]

Shadow of death diplo = video subtitles

[@azoron3008]

nah bro dw he's legit

[@Xandro_The_Great]

Eagle Eye is now very good in campaign/maps where spells are limited.

[@seraswiktoria1003]

Lexiu: "Water Magics will not let you win unwinnable games" Juggernauts from the First Aid game who got ranged to death cause they couldn't get inside the town walls: "Am I a joke to you?"

[@jajafeedyns8082]

"No Earthquake, and no Teleport make Juggernaut go something something..."

[@MackNJacishopper]

@@jajafeedyns8082 Go crazy?

[@nicita27]

We got learning in S tier befor GTA 6.

[@JakobusMaximus]

Luck should also increase the chances of creature abilities to cast.

[@petervlcko4858]

I just wonder when hota team transfer dimensional door to fire magic hence air has two control, earth has one and water have weak but still water walking. Fire could potentially take inspiration from inferno : devils teleport and they have castle gate. DD will suit fire magic well and i guess they will be finally balanced.

[@Ksrwilhelm]

That's honestly a good idea! Also buff fireball/inferno to make them more attractive damage dealers

[@Agdur91]

Think you underrate first aid, likely because you aren't very used to playing with it (fed it a lot to neutrals when you tried), given how differently you rank it and armorer. While 15% damage reduction is more than 15% health the latter also impacting spells is a big deal and it's not a given which is the better bonus. The tent being destroyable means that I agree with putting it lower than armorer, but 3 hits is still a significant investment to make in the finalka (and you'll still benefit from it until then+the damage reduced from hits on the tent). It potentially dying to neutrals is an annoyance, but it's typically most of an early game issue (fewer towns for potential rebuys, usually more split neutral stacks) and it being able to tank can potentially be a boon as well, with it having a fight value of 10 (ai always prioritises it last) it really shouldn't die that often. To me it's more like a low a-tier skill than a c tier one - it's much more universally powerful than the b-c tier ones.

[@dmitryavdyukhin4079]

In finalka, the problem is that it dies after three hits from anyone, not just the main stacks. It's still useful in finalka in formats with lower army, and overall useful throughout the game.

[@Agdur91]

​@@dmitryavdyukhin4079 Sure, but for most armies getting three hits off before it's already had a large impact is quite challenging/costly. The ideal way to deal with it is usually a chain/meteor storm and two ranged stacks of appropriate (small) size, but even then you're sacrificing damage on the spell (creatures will still have the extra health when it goes off), two ranged hits, reductions on any damage done during quicker stacks action and you're fairly vulnerable to disruption (ranged stacks killed, easier for the small stacks you want to use, or blocked). Other compositions may need to sacrifice speedy units (losing initiative) or multiple casts, at which point it's so costly that you may be better off ignoring it. Tldr. Tossing three hits into a tent before it has a high impact isn't trivial in a finalka.

[@jakubkub3178]

You should make a Heroes tierlist too, since many of them got super buffed, spell and creature specialties are so good now

[@JudoMagic]

Please redo all your creatures Tierlists

[@zimmicks3170]

Sorcery went back to its ORIGINAL stats from Shadow of Death - 10, 20 and 30% spell damage bonuses at Basic, Advanced and Expert levels.

[@Igor369]

Luck in B? It is still trivial to cap out luck with map objects and artifacts making the skill even useless is some scenarios.

[@Agdur91]

Far from trivial to cap out, takes both time and artifact slots which isn't something you can afford to use before every important battle. You also have several relevant sources of negative luck in the game, most notably arch devil and shaman's puppet (which is -2, compared to +1 for all positive luck artis bar the valuable neck slot), which is more impactful (negative luck has bigger effect than positive luck) and quite important to offset.

[@hippopolove]

It would be more balanced if Luck and Leadership ignore negatives artifact+crypts maybe ?

[@Igor369]

@@hippopolove Best solution would be making luck/leadership increase maximum luck/morale by 1/2/3, this way fortune and mirth skills would not be complete fucking memes.

[@danielkirpichnikov2007]

Bad luck is effectively an armourer skill, and you want to have a bad luck on opponent. Meanwhile doubling damage on luck is also good to have. Idl why it is less then A tier, and offence that is just +6 attack is on S tier?

[@Igor369]

@ ...because you can get 3 luck with just artifacts and map objects alone while offense always has effect... hell, even more Attack can be blank if it is 61+ higher than target's defense skill while offense always works. And you also omit the RNG aspect of luck, noone cares if your archangels get luck while retaliating against a single skeleton stack.

[@maciejkwasny8093]

Ask and you shall recieve. This one is an absolute hood Classic

[@gillespie2482]

Our prayers were answered! 🙏

[@konradk99]

Lexiav tier list let's go !

[@Thalaranthey]

Honestly imo they should combine first aid, artillery and ballistics into one skill like they did in wog/era. I think it'd still not be too op but at least more versitile and not so much feelsbad

[@masansr]

I guessed before watching where he'd place Learning. A month has passed and Lexiav still hasn't learned how Learning works.

[@S.L-j5z]

thank you for your input its rally interessting how a pro takkels this, nicly done.

[@paradigmlost7582]

Lexiav, many thanks for your video. What's are your impressions on Inferno? Many fans think it's sort of underpowered.

[@ryosakechan]

Leadership could be improved by additionally removing the minus morale for mixed troops.

[@alewis514]

We did it, Heroes 3 with no completely useless skills (well, Navigation is an exception on waterless maps, it's disabled on those templates though) Many mods tried to buff these weak skills, some better some worse. I played some insane WOG versions that combined all 3 warmachine skills into one (Warfare) AND buffed each one too. This was pretty ridiculous tbh. Defeating legions of high tier mobs with commander and WM's alone.

[@HyeokKIM]

Hunting without harm(battle). : Earth Magic(slow), Archery, Offensive Damage reduction(only battle): Earth Magic (shield etc), Armory, First Aid (with tent) More Action, More Movement: Logistics And the others.

[@ThexDarkxHollow]

Yes the content i am looking for from pro player thank you.

[@pheterion]

Are you going to do a playthrough of the new map headhunting ?

[@fergus247]

I wonder if all the skills could become S tier one day

[@VladoMitkov]

Hero tier list next?

[@nikoladd]

First Aid is now like Armorer++. Example: 100 dmg to base 100hp unit. With Armorer remaining HP=100-(100*0.85)= 15hp With First Aid remaining HP=(100*1.15)-100= 15hp

[@MCDomain23]

Lexiav, if you had the chance to add a new secondary skill into the game, what would it be?

[@stassenchr]

While the rebalanced skills are fine, I'm a bit disappointed in some cases as they should have gone further in terms of changing the skills core, rather than giving buffs. More specifically, I think combining skills, to basically get rid of some of the dead skills and make them viable rather than having too much potential crapp out there I think would be amazing. Ballistics, artillery and first aid should have been combined into one skill called "war machinery" that gave you all 3 skills plus infinite shots at expert lvl, basically like having all the war machines plus ability to control them. Then they wouldn't have needed these random buffs like the 40pc buff which I don't like. The skills could still be marginally buffed, but even without I'd think many ppl would be ok to get this skill. First aid tent should also be able to cure spells btw. Scholar and eagle eye should be combined too, and buffed less but still some. Mysticism an sorcery could also have been combined, or maybe mysticism and intelligence, but this one I'm less keen on

[@santiagodevillalobos9654]

Earth, Air, Wisdom, Logistics, Pathfinding, Scouting, Offence, Armorer, Learning is so the perfect skill build for Duel?

[@makalelepl]

What about hero tier list for duel? On 2.9 it’s hard to find a good hero / strategy for some factions.

[@Mslowik]

as for pathfinding, I think it's quite the opposite of what you say, logistics is better only on formats with a large number of roads and a quickly available flight, in all other cases pathfinding is better.

[@heikkihegemon493]

Do all the tierlists again.

[@SvenS2]

What a good day ❤

[@totasef]

Navigation must be C tier. Its useless unless you play XL single player map with lots of sea movements and still its only valuable early on until you get TP, DD, Fly, water walk. I think navigation would be better if it gave you admiral"s hat artifact effect , so you would have no boarding penalty .

[@Aknilox]

Poor D tier :(

[@ahmedsivac6986]

Brother I've never seen you pick leadership over anything anymore

[@erfarkrasnobay]

Warmachines should be single skill as in homm5, eagle eye and schoolar, or schoolar and wizdom should be single skill. Magic skills should also allow you learn spells of that element in addition to wisdoms

[@blackwidow7804]

Archery above Fire and Water. Nani?

[@Tibor0803]

4:40 Do you guys remember Lexiav placing Water Magic to C tier in his previous tierlist video despite the fact nothing really changed about it by now? Now placing it to A tier for him is unexpected and makes his previous SS tierlist video look freakin' ridiculous. The skill been looked down by Lexiav himself as well before. This is how it looked like for him back then: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hobOmptpmsZ7oJo

[@aabeeek]

Water magic slander will not be tolerated.

[@Adolf_Klenk]

yeah u absolutely right. i wondered about that, too

[@Agdur91]

Meta changes can impact a skills power immensely even if the skill itself is unchanged. With that said, I'm sure Lexiav would admit that he underrated water in his last video. I imagine we'll see a similar adjustment happen to first aid if he remakes this video again within a few years.

[@Tibor0803]

@@Agdur91 First Aid is in a somewhat good spot, but I feel like Earth Magic is still overpowered and the game needs a serious spell update, giving more room to the other 3 schools of spells, buff the useless spells, a bit nerf the overpowered ones etc...because it doesn't look good at all. Something like what we can see in VCMI.

[@Agdur91]

@@Tibor0803 Spell balance in heroes 3 is obviously completely wack, ~10% of the spells are gamebreakingly powerful while the rest are niche or even useless. With that said, rebalancing spells would be a way larger step from the original game than even this last skill update - we'll see if the hota team is willing to take that leap or not.

[@Andrius319]

Does eagle eye work on high level spells without wisdom? If so it it could replace wisdom.

[@mateuszs72]

Imagine Dimension Door moved to fire school of magic. How that would change the meta Jeeeeesus

[@theashenone9703]

I don't really understand why scouting is so good for You, it's good to see what's on the map, but 2/3 fields often won't change much. I would put it on B tier/A tier max

[@niewpisze7493]

In one hero format it is important. It allows you to know where you DD into for example. Lexiav uploaded few blind DD consequences.

[@dumnor]

Infamous "the update" without description to tell which one is it.

[@Fg-wi2wj]

HOTA mod 1.7.2. update

[@simonelampasona6722]

I don't understand why Scouting is tier S. Can anyone care to explain? I never choose it if I can, what am I doing wrong?

[@dumnor]

He mostly plays duels where hero movement and efficiency at which you capture important locations and artifacts is important. (Also note the sight radius bonus is higher than in base game.) When movement is the premium currency, revealing best options from longer range become more valuable. You do not need to move back and forth to uncover as much options. Also seeing your opponent further away allows you to choose when engagement (that ends the game) happens. All movement and map exploration related abilities are in S tier. (Aside from navigation, as duel maps tend to have almost zero water.)

[@zealgaming8161]

Ngl, that sounds really niche to make a tier list around. Like me making a tier list of what skills are the best for gigantic Coop standard maps with my buds.

[@martinlevi3769]

Its for 1 hero templates. You have only 1 hero to play with there, so the only way to reveal the map is through this hero, hence, scouting pretty vital for finding things and deciding directions & actions

[@nikrul]

Can you clarify if you keep the HP buff from first aid when the tent is down or not ?

[@Crazy-Drokon]

You lose it when the rent is dead

[@FinleyZero]

​@@Crazy-Drokon You lose it when you run out of rent for the tent.

[@peterstoyanov2912]

"Scouting" is good in some map types and agreements of only one hero per player, but overall it's not that great. "B" tier from me

[@viktor4183]

Darkstorm is S tier now?

[@ArgumentumAdHominem]

No d-tier skills! The HOTA team are doing a great job!

[@travodrin6815]

wisdom seems kinda useless on jebus outcast because there's a lot of books or scrolls laying in middle. Only use of wisdom is to get pandora with all spells but such pandoras get so much guard it's usually not worth it.

[@FirstLast-m3i]

Is implosion banned in HOTA?

[@alexmashkin863]

In a lot of pvp templates it's banned

[@Agdur91]

Not banned in hota, but on most multiplayer maps yes.

[@hippopolove]

For me, you are too kind with Learning and Archery ! and not enough with Mysticism who is almost always good, except when there is a lot of city in a map !

[@millerliberator8073]

Music way too loud :(

[@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714]

No it isnt.

[@sarkham92]

just move wisdom to A tier and you have perfect skill tree in S tier, while A being situational replacmenets and forget the rest unles playing other formats or memes.

[@Phoenixzs1012]

Scouting is bad.In standard game setup it's a dead weight skill. Navigation could have reduced a bit your embarking cost.Otherwise it has limited use.

[@JoachimSandvold-f3b]

do a town tier list or comment on this comment

[@chandlergordon8878]

archery in A tier, and above leadership? smdh no wonder kokonut mall wins every match

[@stassenchr]

Yeah that particular one was weird. Think he hadn't quite calibrated his tiers then, and he didn't revisit it later

[@darwinnair1393]

Music too loud

[@melissasven8087]

Leadership is S++ Tier... hate the ding dong of negativ moral

[@aa-ze5cz]

Just put logistics S tier, already... 🤣

[@MC9922-b2j]

i struugle to understand how interference is A tier while eagle eye is B tier - it is hard to compare lowering opponent power vs knowledge of his all spells + how they advance are so that you can play your cards and know your opponents cards - easily S tier

[@Agdur91]

It's hard to compare, but lowering power has a far more universal use. In a lot of formats being played it's fairly common to simply have all/most of the relevant spells, you often can't play around spells like buffs/summons in a meaningful way and you'll find out most of the spell information within a few casts. Sure, there are cases where eagle eye will tell you that your high spell power opponent doesn't have chain, saving you a protect air cast - but in general a high spell power hero would try to ensure that they do have chain before the finalka.

[@ratpongkraiwiwat5988]

Huge Stat reduction really impacts the combat. Spells doing way less damage or summon much less elementals are way more impactful in the last fight than knowing and having oppo’s spells which contributes less if you have less power anyway. Watching oppo’s summon 180 elementals and learning the spell don’t do much if you have much less power. But preventing armageddon lethal due to interference is gamewinning.

[@Edikzord]

Eagle eye on 1v1 + 1 hero maps (this is what Lexiav plays most of the time) is C/D tier imo, you pick it and you will use it only in the final fight. Otherwise it's B max. It's situational and still random (no 100% chance on expert) and it can even be blocked by enemy EE skill.

[@wizsc]

Omg another H3 youtuber dont know math puts learning on some BS s tier. Can you put any science behind that? Because learning comes down to 3 extra basic points and its barely worth it, if anything taking into account the fact you lose secondary skill slot.

[@S.L-j5z]

well the raw levels arent the reason why the skill is good, it speeds up the Developing procress of the hero, which is critical in the beginning of the game, it allows the Hero to snowball earlyer than usual. It allows for searching for secondary skills quicker and boosts the levelgain, in comparisson the the opponend, speciallly in the beginning (first 10 levels). From a mathematical standpoint you are right(some redditor calculatet it I think), if you would found 10 boxes with 10.000 exp it doesent make much of a difference in Hero level. But the ability to snowball early leads to better/quicker objektivs that leads to more army in a shorter timeframe. You "Buy" that speed-advantage with the learning skillslot. Endgame fight are not only won by secondary skills but also Creaturs, artis,spells ect. Im competitive game speed is really importent and leads to more diffenent outcomes, than in casual games. I also think it depends on the format, you could argue the placing in S tier, but the skill has, (dispite the mathematical low leveldifference) a real place and use in the meta.

[@wizsc]

First: these are make believe arguments. Second: its false. Your hero does not progress faster early (besides quick 3 basic skills). It actually SLOWS THE HERO DOWN! It makes for example expert earth come LATER, because you have to climb higher level to gain these skills (which you were wasting getting learning).

[@Elijah_Tartaria]

Anyone running HoTA in ubuntu 24?