Tier List: Ranking (Almost) Every "Going 2nd" Card In Yugioh

Clips from stream over at / theduellogs
Akiza emotes art by / missandydandy
#yugioh #ygo #masterduel

[@therealwetwizard]

sphere mode is a easy S tier as it summons the Winged Dragon of Ra

[@brandongouveia8198]

I think tou evaluated kaijus wrong. You chose them based on what you want. Peoppe play radian cause its dark and combos with branded, gamaciel was used in early tears and water decks that can search it, dogoran in dinosaurs, gadarla and kumonga in beetroopers, jizukiru in cyber dragons. Their value is not only their own attack. I dont really see any moving up and down cause this list is in a vacuum but its worth noting other things that make them more or less viable

[@dragon-id5uj]

absolutely. gadarla outing wind barrier statue for example is huge; jizukiru with a CyDra side package in any machine heavy format (ABC)... gren maju decks that crash a weak monster into the 3300 kaijus to trigger inferno tempest and necroface.. I'm happy to take duel logs viewpoints WITH a grain of salt AND cross referenced with other skilled players as well as my own experience.

[@NinthSettler]

in my branded luna kaiju i play jizukiru, thunder king and radian

[@CrnaStrela]

Crusadia are okay with any high atk kaijus, but yeah Gadarla being the valuable board breaker during stormwind lock was invaluable despite gameciel being the better kaiju in general.

[@zed60k47]

I kinda get what you mean but, it's hard to evaluate these based on constantly changing decks and metas, especially since non of these decks are good in the current format, except maybe gadarla, but since barrier statue was banned it doesn't seem to be necessary any more.

[@babbit09]

I use Radian in my Labrynth deck since they can search/recycle fiends & bounce monsters with compulse

[@ShadowSaberBaroxio]

Lava Golem prevents you from Normal Summoning, but it doesn't actually "eat" your Normal Summon like Sphere Mode does. This distinction is important because it means that you can actually summon multiple Lava Golems in a single turn. You can't do that with Sphere Mode, and you definitely can't do that with Kaijus, since you can only ever control 1. In other words, it's the best card to main deck.

[@patriotnguyen2721]

The thing is, it's not as easy to summon and get rid of as kaiju (higher attack, require more monster to summon, lose a normal summon), and more useful on the field for your opponent than sphere mode

[@kingofgrim4761]

If you bounce the kaiju back with certain monsters you can continuously kaiju them. Like alpha the master of beasts

[@thierrydebrunhoff5869]

does the lava golem burn stack?

[@ShadowSaberBaroxio]

@@thierrydebrunhoff5869 Yes, each Lava Golem triggers independently, as a mandatory effect. Beware though, you best be able to clear it or it can quickly backfire. Kaijus can clear themselves and Sphere Mode has no attack power, but Lava Golem can easily bite you in the behind if you're not careful.

[@RottingCorpseBehindMcDonalds]

​@@patriotnguyen2721in return, it burns your opponent

[@FlyingPenguin196]

Only complaint I have is with the kaijus, specifically jizukiru. As a former cyber dragon player, you run that one because it’s a machine and therefore not staying on the field. I’d imagine the others have their synergies too, but I don’t know them.

[@CrnaStrela]

Dogoran being played because it is dark target for branded, gadarla breaks stormwind lock, Dogoran is a nice tech in Dino, Kumungus played alongside Gadarla in bee, crusadia can play all kaiju without a care, but Gameciel is indeed played in more deck though it doesn't have synergy with those decks.

[@beegyoshi1685]

@@CrnaStrela crusadia plays the higher attack ones only since you can also summon another one to your side if you have 2 in your hand

[@melvinshine9841]

Lightning Storm just pisses me off most of the time. You have anything face-up, it becomes a brick. Even if you're going second, people can play around it by placing their important, non-Link, monsters in defense position. It's versatile, I use it, but I'll take Raigeki or Feather Duster over it any day of the week. Maxx C can be really powerful, but I probably actually resolve it less than a fourth of the time.

[@krystianaquino1575]

Also, i don't know why he value lighting storm so much... i get why the card is good, but it always end up being a bricked if you didn't get it on your starting hand... i'll actually put it on the same tier as raigeki/feather duster just because of the condition to use it... also, if it's a best of 3, then raigeki and feather duster in the side deck will give more value after the 1st match since you know what you're up against when you're going 2nd(and even if you're going 1st, it can still be added)... you would only play lightning storm cause it gives more chance for you to break the board in addition with feather duster/raigeki(depending on what you're up against) in the deck or if you don't know what your opponent is playing yet while being unsure/certain of you going 2nd or if your deck is build purely on going 2nd(in which case, i can see it being S tier but other cards in here will deserve a higher tier if not S tier as well like evenly matched and kaijus)...

[@mateusrp1994]

I feel the same way about Lighting Storm. Never draw it when I need the most, only draw it when I have something on the field bricking it. Garbage card.

[@HazeEmry]

And if you're playing a deck with a field spell, you most likely aren't going to be able to play it 🙃

[@Dz73zxxx]

Im a rogue tier deck users and ngl 9/10 situations i would prefer 2 raigeki and 1 duster..even 3 raigeki is better for consistent boardbreaking. Eventually the so-called "fast paced" lightning storm wont shine on longer turns

[@Konnorwolf]

That's what bothers me about Lightning Storm. If I don't draw it on my first turn it will end up being a brick while Duster Or Raigeki will not.

[@SolarFlare]

RIP psychic eraser laser for not making the list 😭😭😭

[@vla1ne]

one of the best non targeting removal cards.

[@yura37]

as a going second player, i dont think ive ever seen a tier list ive disagreed more with for anything.

[@themonarchserupt4051]

same lmao

[@ascalontheknight1293]

Yo what? Other than the kaijus what I think he was pretty accurate as another going second player been playing evil eye for years

[@Alberio1]

Dark Hole is better than Raigeki in some ways. I know OCG players were playing it over Raigeki for a while because it would let you clear trash your opponents gave you to lock you out of special summoning Kashtira monsters.

[@thierrydebrunhoff5869]

I like using it with swordsoul chengying since it‘s a nice way of triggering his effect so you can remove from play 1 card from the field and GY each

[@Ragnarok540]

Ultimate Slayer is pretty good, and in some decks sending certain stuff from the extra deck to the graveyard is a big plus.

[@acetraker1988]

Not having Ultimate Slayer is sad times.

[@mokukiridashi]

I don't understand why lightning storm gets placed so highly. You'll rarely ever use it after turn two, people now just summon in defense, and there are tons of floating effects for destruction.

[@otterfire4712]

This is about value of Turn 2 plays. Storm is extremely valuable for Turn 2. It also can still be used past it so long as you have no face up cards, so you can activate it with a field of set down cards.

[@bismarckimperia8781]

Turn 2 is usually how the game is decided. So Lightning Storm which can break boards for this list is actually high.

[@Morasaky]

i play dark hole in Master duel , because a lot of players play the floodgate combo with branded Expulsion to summon Ido the Supreme Magical Force and Dark hole can remove that card with the rest of their field as well

[@dabbingtoast7743]

Strictly speaking from a Master Duel players perspective, Dark Hole being worse than Raigeki is kinda dumb, especially in a going second sense. The hell do I care if its gonna pop my monsters if I don't have any on the field to begin with and I get 3 copies as opposed to just 2 with Raigeki?

[@Rbibaseball57]

Kashtira Fenrir may be even better than Dinowrestler, it came out with the Bystial in the last expansion

[@SolarFlare]

It's not better than Pank. Only reason it could be considered better is purely because Pank is at 1 and Fenrir isn't

[@Rbibaseball57]

@@SolarFlare I disagree, they can both special summon, but Fenrir cash search another copy of it's self, and as a quick effect can banish a face up card face down by either declaring an attack or in response to a card effect being activated. So it avoids floating effects, pank destroys. Also if fenrir does get destroyed you can special summon it again if you have no monsters

[@Dz73zxxx]

@@Rbibaseball57 yea imo its better, and a soft-floodgate since its banishing ability also activates by handtraps "I ashed you, but it cost me 1 banish face down"

[@GhjklasGaing]

also since fenrir’s summoning condition is to control no monsters, it can also be summoned turn 1

[@Rbibaseball57]

@@GhjklasGaing wait, that's how that ruling works? Thought it had to say quick effect? Like the bystials

[@bobjoe2955]

Ngl chief although your opinions are based they’re still wrong. I’m this format Galaxy cyclone shouldn’t be nearly that high, also putting dark hole in d tier puzzled me since it’s 6 copies of raigeki. I could go on, but I won’t, just saying that this video isn’t hitting the mark.

[@meepmeeper8423]

Yeah I thought this video was kinda wack. Putting harpies feather duster below raigeki is a little odd to me

[@theomnigamer9177]

To be fair, all these cards are subject to change in the destined future. Like even though Super Polymerization will forever be S tier, Floating effects upon destruction still exist. But that doesn’t mean all your monsters benefit upon destruction. There will also be cards that just spin cards back into the deck and not trigger (most) floating effects which is just better than destruction as long you can finish the duel in the same turn. As a comment in the stream said, “Grand Mole was great back in the day, but Power Creep happened.” Another Neo Spacian that existed, but didn’t see play was Aqua Dolphin. But thanks to the game evolving, it saw more play. As long as the Yu-Gi-Oh! continues, old cards will become better, and some worse, and vice versa.

[@MasterSam911]

Interrupted Kaiju Slumber can also force your opponent to enter the battlephase

[@lovenighto]

There is a reason why Hfd is at 1 yet its on C tier. And as a Striker player, u underestimate how powerful Raigeki in the current meta.

[@calamelli209]

Archfiend Eccentrick is niche, but I like her. In situations where you can't play S/T cards (like the Anti-Spell Festival in MD, or if you're playing a deck that requires few or no S/T cards like Superheavy Samurai or Gallis FTK) she can be really useful.

[@safeandsound712]

I kept waiting for logs to talk about how Gren Maju makes the costs of Gizmek Oroochi and eater of millions a benefit, but he never seemed to think about it while doing this video

[@thatoneguy4101]

Dark Hole is being used in the best decks side deck most of the time. Raigeki is insane this format. This list just reeks of MD bias but that’s understandable because DL plays that the most.

[@positronium3525]

My boy Jizukiru can be searched with Cyber Repair Plant. I have dropped plenty of Jizukirus on DPE, MirrorJade, Chengying, and Chixiao after searching for it. There are times I follow up with Anima, equip with to Anima, and use it to beat down opponent. My boy Pankratops the honorary Cyber Dragon that craps on Skill Drain.

[@richardstamm2144]

Raigeki doesn't care if your monster floats into something else. Raigeki doesn't care about the second wave your rebound monsters float into. Raigeki has no turn limit and I drew nothing but raigeki. Please send help.

[@xcythgaming2069]

1:50 Sphere mode is better than Golem for 3 very distinct reasons. 1. It can't be attacked or attack 2. You get it back after the 2nd turn 3. Since it doesn't specifically mention that it's effects dont stop opponents monters from attacking directly, your op can't attack it or you directly.

[@drewbabe]

I love how this video starts off talking about how a lot of boards end up on only two monsters, so Sphere Mode in the main deck isn't that good. It's definitely a "contemporary Master Duel meta" problem and the historical use of Sphere Mode in the TCG, especially in side decks, has been a lot better, but it's fun to hear you say what I was saying in your twitter replies like FOREVER ago about how Lava Golem and Kaijus are better than Sphere Mode. At least in Master Duel, they definitely are better.

[@jeredgibb5064]

Man had to be talked into raising lava golem from B tier though

[@magicsack]

It's a cute talking spider :3

[@chrisb.2028]

I feel so smart when I outplayed interrupted kaiju slumber the first time I saw it, all I had was a hieratic seal of the heavenly spheres on the field, so, I tributed a monster in my hand and returned it to the ed, thus, the card couldn't resolve since it couldn't destroy any monster on the field, my opponent went straight to the end phase. I like playing against kaijus, you never know what's going to happen, the other day one summoned a radian to my field, but I had shizuku on the field, so, when they summoned dogoran, it couldn't kill the radian, so he killed shizuku and ended his turn, unfortunately for him, he had the field spell with kaiju conters, so I used them to summon a token and otk him that turn.

[@SimpIeton1]

Before watching, I want to see TTT in S tier.

[@AnarchoCatBoyEthan]

I think a lot of people in the comments are misinterpreting this tier list as a list about going second cards for like decks that want to go second. This a tier list for good decks that HAVE to go second, which is a pretty big difference. Obviously you’ll feel different if your deck wants to go second and lot of those factors with be entirely differently values. I feel like that’s a big point of contention with a lot of the comments i’m seeing. I’m sure there’s still plenty of disagreement beyond that tho, which sure fair enough.

[@germsoh723]

Thanks the great amount of content 🙌🏾

[@commiecomrade2644]

You keep being like "I keep running into X situation so its bad." Bit of confirmation bias going on there I think. Your analysis isn't wrong but you are putting too many anecdotes in there. Like evenly getting negated. Sure it happens but that could happen to any card so it isn't evenly specific.

[@commiecomrade2644]

I see what you're saying but it is how evenly works that is the problem. Think about the circumstances under which you're going to use it. It is a going second board breaker. So your opponent will have been set up. You take your turn and give up your battle phase. Then if you are going to get maximum effect you need to use evenly first. Thats the problem usually. You have given a lot and the reward is worth it BUT by circumstance you're going to be using evenly first against a fully setup board. So yes the negate issue is definitely a problem with the card specifically. It doesn't stop anything it and you don't want to have any cards on the field when you use it. Its effect is devastating so there is no chance that your opponent is going to let it go off. So yeah it is definitely more about the game state the card requires for use. If your opponent has negates then they will be live when you are using evenly. I hope I am making sense here. It is definitely a downside of the card.

[@MontyNorman-y6e]

Remember be careful with anything electric as they could be harmful and or lethal to you and or other people and or start a fire along with causing other things. Remember be careful and stay safe.

[@adrianoking9579]

thanks duel logs just what i needed.

[@chlobot69420]

Dark Hole is better than Raigeki because they’re both just as likely to get negated but at the very least Dark Hole has the double function of wiping an Iblee, Ido, Ra’s Disciple, or whatever other bullshit off your field.

[@ancient7716]

I think triple tactics burst should also be in A tier but it wasn't in the list.

[@iTechGamingLOL]

About the kaijus i would rank them all the same, they all depend of what meta you play at or what type of deck you use. Would put Dark hole at C just because some decks can use it quite efficient and D tier should be for the cards that are simply not used at all.

[@chilogutierrez8760]

Evenly is a tier. You almost always win resolving this card

[@tuzki8843]

I cant believe you forgot Numeron Network

[@imperialphoenix1229]

2:40 Ah yes, my favorite magic card term.... Model cards. Not mode-al meaning having a mode you can pick. Model Fsfs

[@Ja_Mes]

You’ve gotta be single

[@dragon-id5uj]

@@Ja_Mes or literate, same thing amirite? sitcomlaugh.wav

[@Enby_adams_]

I was asking where is mystic mine, obviusly would be an s tier , so stupid question

[@darkwolf9637]

I think the only time I've seen radian used over the turtle is in unchained since you get fiend locked

[@calamelli209]

Radian is also great in Labrynth (which is also usually Fiend-locked and can bounce Radian with Compulsory to use it again) or in decks that also use Super Polymerization (it's Dark so it can make Starving Venom and Dragostapelia)

[@justalurker3489]

Kaijus are all dependent on your deck. Jizikiru has 3300 Atk so in a vacuum it's worse, but it's searchable in Cyber Dragons because it's a Light Machine. The atk stats of Kaiju cards is secondary to actually being able to access them and remove them once they're used. Radian is a Dark monster so if you're running Super Poly it's a better choice. I like Gamicel in my Umi Control deck because it's searchable as a high-level water monster AND it gets around being Water locked, not because its Atk is lower.

[@renaldyhaen]

Unchained user here, Fiend lock isn't locking your turn, but the rest of the turn. As long as you use non-fiend 1st, before using Rakea and Aruha effect. I usually bring level 8 Kaiju like Gadarla and Gamiciel. Because in some cases, you can OTK with Numeron Dragon package.

[@beegyoshi1685]

@@justalurker3489 and crusadia just wants the attack stats

[@jofx4051]

U can recover Radian/Lava Golem with Unchained Link effect (2 and 3) when destroyed

[@Darshe0]

Duster sees 10 times the competitive play Raigeki sees tf

[@phoenixvance6642]

Imagine if they made a spirit monster kaiju

[@rorschach4502]

I usually love your rankings and videos, but I couldn't disagree more with this one. Lightning storm is honestly worse than evenly or lava golem, which is definitely better than sphere lol. I'm not sure when you actually recorded this but mystic mine has been banned for over a month, and to include the best cop thing for cosmic but to call dark hole D tier on the same list when it was in fact also a mystic mine out. No Kaiju really does enough fast enough so I would put them all in C except maybe the wind one at this time. And just to be a little petty...change of heart is better than mind control lol. I do agree with your take on TTT though. Sounds like a great card, but it's always either dead, you draw multiple, or you draw into the other copies off its own effect (pot syndrome)

[@aerodriguez122]

I personally think s tier should be for cards that cant be or are super hard to negate. And then A and below for cards that can be commonly negated but are also super good if it goes through. I wouldnt know a whole lot though since I dont play meta 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@etherealhawk]

Best archetype for going second?

[@sinmethodical1837]

Best going second card is definitely rainbow neos (neos fusion)

[@Ragnellrok]

Where would Ultimate Slayer be

[@abuhassan8849]

Triple Tactics in Photon Hypernova will be the best going 2nd card in history.

[@bobby45825]

My body is ready. I LOVE going second decks the most.

[@dragonch0ch0ch06]

pank is a baby dpe so ofc its insane

[@chrismenary3340]

You need to have no monsters on the field to activate lightning storm isn’t that a bit of a handy cap?

[@domimomi3954]

Nibiru is pretty bad in all 3 current formats. Sprights dont care Tear plays through it Brandet doesnt play into it Swoso puts up barone for protection(only with great hand though) VW used to make gossip before making their plays. Tribrigade will still have revolt if you nibiru Runick doesnt play into it Labrynth doesnt play into it So nibiru on its own is basicially dead

[@chilogutierrez8760]

Triple tactics is a more of a side deck card imo…. Amazing vs kash. Give me your raise heart and then throw Zeus on top and watch em cry

[@sickranchez6183]

No ash blossom?

[@AngelaGonzalez-sf1yx]

Tenji is very good in a sword soul deck

[@DAxBatres]

Quick-effects get past floodgates?

[@rjswonson]

No it's the fact that it tributes itself for cost that allows pank to get around most floodgates.

[@Drachenherz1901]

Bro for real is there a tsukuyomi? It is not 2005

[@carsonmiller711]

Where's chaos ancient gear giant? I've been scammed.

[@drewbabe]

TDL: "Lightning Storm is live against all matchups" Duelists who put their on-board negates in defense position on Turn 1: "Shh nobody tell him" Lightning Storm sucks. It's a dead card most of the time outside of your first turn, has a HOPT where Raigeki and Feather Duster do not (tbf the latter is limited) so if you open two copies you can't bait two negates with it, and with the MR4 revisions that make Link strategies (and therefore, attack position) mostly unnecessary, can be easily played around. It's a terrible card to put in your main deck because of this, and as far as the side deck goes, it's only always good against back row strategies, but even then it only really serves as extra, worse copies of Feather Duster. In a meta with a good back row heavy deck, sure, you might want to side deck it, but only because Heavy Storm, Giant Trunade, and Red Reboot are banned. Its versatility barely matters because it's only good in the side deck anyway, so you already know the matchup you're going against by then. You could put 3 copies of Evenly Matched in your side deck instead and get better results. Now there's a card that's live against all matchups. You can even main deck that in control decks that don't care about the BP, in case you lose the dice roll.

[@Anotherbaka999]

Also a lot of backrow decks have tools to deal with it Flip anti-spell fragance on standby, having a solemn judgment or the equivalent of their archetype set. Having a waking the dragon or boo-boo game to punish you for trying to wipe their board Or stuff like traptrix that can easily put back some traps with their monsters to dodge it, or protecting them from being destroyed to begin with

[@Konnorwolf]

Yes! Every time I add Shere Mode back no one ever ends with more than two. Remove it and then it's back to five-card endboards. Eater Of Millions is best in my Gren Maju Deck with Necroface. Also fun to use a Kaiju, Alpha bonce the Kaiju back to hand and then Kaiju them again.

[@bobby45825]

I thought it was weird that he evaluated the card outside of Gren Maju. Like....what other decks play the card? Gren maju REALLY plays well with the card.

[@Konnorwolf]

@@bobby45825 It's a must at three for my Gren Maju deck. The extra doesn't matter in that deck as it's all Super Poly targets and Pot and eater banishes. Outside of Gren Maju? Not really.

[@skirch6094]

...you don't play going 2nd, do you?

[@xCorvus7x]

21:51 still targets though

[@lorenzotanzi9851]

Dark hole saved me against a duckhead who played Dispia Braidead with Ido and tried to lock me out of summoning. D tier is too low imo.

[@Shotgun.Philosophy]

I think this tierlist is wrong in so many ways. The Creater is clearly not a high ly Competitive Person because else many cards would end up on a differente tier on this list

[@jhangonzalez8061]

Lighting storm better in this meta than havenly matched??????🤣

[@naxmaxJK]

I'm definitely in the minority in thinking lightning storm is overrated af i think it's Geniuinely worse than Raigeki.

[@sagii1372]

where is my favorite duel links xard hey trunade? easily S tier

[@lupercal8997]

Putting Evenly in A because "it's too good so people negate it" is the most brain-dead take I have ever heard...

[@hristijanzdravkovski5970]

Feather duster's alternate art is much better that a feather being in a horse's nose.

[@LoneSkag]

We can can be twitter and twitchers but not tweakers?

[@billysmith4467]

This dude really has pankratops over evenly matched and has gameciel on the same level as lava golem 🤦‍♂️ you either haven't played competitively for a minute or are just trying to be a contrarian for the sake of interaction.

[@chrisshorten4406]

To be fair, Dark Hole is useful in modern Scrap/ Dinosaur decks.

[@dragonch0ch0ch06]

red reboot also combos incredibly well with cards like lightning storm or feather duster cause then the added card from the deck wont matter too much cause its getting destroyed anyways unless it happens to have a good graveyard effect.

[@DAxBatres]

I’ve been out the game too long, raigeki is b tier now lol

[@placeholder4842]

Problem with psy frame gear gamma is that I always opened with the garnet going second and draw the gamma when I need to extend (drawing 2 gamma off pot of desire while banishing the driver is never fun)

[@jofx4051]

Cost of bringing brick is draw the brick yourself

[@harrycrosswell2844]

Eater is mainly used to go into anima. Makes it so much better, especially paired with a kaiju. Also, Luna is a crazy card. It's Alpha but has a search and quick effect return to hand. So good when you don't need your normal. You really should consider them in optimal context. Generic should elevate them, but going second strategies can make good use of both. Also, no numeron dragon or network, or even Gren Maju?

[@tsukikofudo3838]

i am weird and prize raigeki and feather duster because for me, lightning storm is a worse extra copy of feather duster. Red reboot is practically unplayable. It is an answer to infinite impermance because next to nobody plays trap cards.

[@MoldMonkey93]

A ghost ogre and Imperm going second is basically a negate destroy if you chain ogre first and then imperm.

[@uncleiroh6127]

Lmfao. I got to masters with a kaiju deck.

[@Babosa_cautelosa]

I really love that spider Icon

[@crotair1089]

#1 rule of streaming (pretty sure I voted for you in the rising Yugituber poles!): don't listen to chat. In fact, berate them. Chat loves that.

[@Unknown-Duelist]

If you want going second just run evenly Matched and dark ruler.

[@spaarkk6502]

if you had to do something to make going second better (not a card) what would you do?

[@nacl4988]

Question! Where does the legendary Rank-12 with a non-once-per-chain Nuke go *IF* you put it on the list? I assume it would be an obvious S tier?

[@dandomen3584]

It is not a going 2nd card though.

[@HazeEmry]

What card is it?

[@nacl4988]

@@dandomen3584 You can only use it after the battlephase (Unless you waste a bunch of resources and be a chad). Which is mostly going2nd uses.

[@nacl4988]

@@HazeEmryFull name: "Divine Arsenal AA-ZEUS - Sky Thunder" Mostly just called "Zeus" though

[@HazeEmry]

@@nacl4988 ohhh Zeus. I thought they meant Dreadnought Max, forgetting that it's a rank 10

[@williamdrum9899]

This just remind me that Yugioh doesn't have any formats that support more than 2 players. Kind of wish it did, but unlike MTG the cards aren't written to support that.

[@HazeEmry]

There's an official mobile game whose format is 3 main, 3 s/t and 4 players. I remember it being advertised at least

[@bobby45825]

There's way too many easy FTK's in the game to make it work, same with OTK's.