Why Doesn't MLS Have Promotion and Relegation?

[@Tifo]

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[@billykneeshaw]

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[@_.13_]

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[@glorzoglory998]

Music playing in the background?

[@Midori_Ringo]

You need to watch what happens with the A-league in Australia. It follows a similar system to the MLS. But FIFA has flown in this week to force some sort of consensus on the congress of the a-league of which a big part of the issue is pro/rel, a national 2nd division. FIFA could possibly impose sanctions to force the issue

[@Midori_Ringo]

Dunno mainly money I guess at this point. MLS revenue is like 100x the A-league and the US market is extremely lucrative. What happens to the a-league could set a dangerous precedent however especially if World Cup sanctions and FIFA tournament sanctions are imposed which has been rumoured. Personally I do believe Pro/rel is necessary and has to happen as well as the expansion of the league to 14-16 teams (currently 10). For this a national 2nd division has to be in place.

[@MrMooemoney]

So what's the motivation for teams in 2 division? they can't go up or down

[@davepazz580]

The teams can't but the players and coaches can go up or down...

[@AWABPW]

Bit shit for the fans

[@djordjerasic7482]

@@davepazz580 what if you are a fan?

[@davepazz580]

@@djordjerasic7482 If you're a fan, then you understand that the team you follow will always be in the top league... but the players or coaches may not always perform up to standard and their time is limited.

[@djordjerasic7482]

@@davepazz580 but what if u are a fan of the 2nd tier team? Your team will never get promoted to the top

[@robertocolanzi]

Similar debate here in Australia with the A League being also a closed league and calls for promotion and relegation either from a new second division or existing state leagues

[@alanhubbard4799]

Shhhhhh... Don't let them find out the A league is just MLS junior. They'll shit on you relentlessly.

[@mattmoore804]

Alan Hubbard the difference is Australia don't claim to be good at it

[@samwow123]

roberto colanzi yeah dont let the Europeans know that

[@tylermckinley4494]

Australia's a bit disadvantaged just because of the small population. Even though the sport is really popular here, we don't have enough sheer numbers to support several leagues.

[@celebrim1]

As with the USA, pro-rel makes no sense in Australia. Pro-Rel doesn't even work very well in Europe aside from providing some minor drama for the fans in their generally ho-hum leagues (look, Bayern Munich won the Bundesliga), but that it works at all is only because European nations are generally single sport nations and because they attract money from places like Asia and the Middle East, where the investors are willing to lose money year after year on salaries that exceed income, like the world's most expensive toys. The Champions League final was one of the dullest most embarrassing games I've ever watched, and probably turned a million curious USA sport fans off soccer permanently - or would have if even that many had watched. But don't like the game in Europe? Tough. It's soccer or nothing. Australia, like the USA, is sport mad, and soccer isn't even very high on the average athlete or sport fans radar. In the USA you have football, basketball, baseball, hockey, and then soccer is somewhere below that. In Australia you have football (the Aussie kind), rugby, cricket and then there is soccer. Pro-rel in this case just guarantees your league flounders, because no one is investing in a sports league in the USA just because as a boy they dreamed of owning a team while playing "Football Manager".

[@Yesnog05]

I really do hope that the US will adopt a pro/reg system or some variation. In Japan (my home country), their soccer league was created around the same time as mls and they have a pro/releg format (J1, J2, and J3 for amateur/semi pro teams). What that did was intensify passion, marketing opportunities, and encourage development for the teams. There are a lot of things Japan did differently compared to the mls, but the bottom line is that their talent is being recognized from clubs overseas (mainly in Europe), further developing their players for their national team. Players like Shunsuke Nakamura, Hidetoshi Nakata, Shinji Kagawa, Keisuke Honda, Yuto Nagatomo, Shinji Okazaki, Yoshinori Muto, and even a Barcelona prospect Takefusa Kubo. Soccer (yes, the Japanese also call it soccer) isn't the most popular sport in Japan compared to baseball, sumo, and tennis; much like in the USA where basketball, football, and hockey are more popular than soccer. Also, keep in mind that Japan has a smaller population than the USA so just imagine the amount of talent, money, and new fans they will be able to produce had they adopt a working system that's been proven even with a league as young as theirs.

[@petmtzrios33]

Yesnog05 china ass to

[@osu5inarow]

Yesnog05 Problem is, is that Japan and elsewhere it's easier because of distance between teams. Meanwhile here you go from LA to New York that's a 7 hour flight. Meanwhile in say England it's at most a 3 hour car ride. So the logistics is the biggest problem and not a "oh they're different."

[@gdm9937]

osu5inarow that is not the problem at all, it’s due to the fact that the lower leagues aren’t financially stable to be in the mls and the mls clubs are to big to drop to nasl, my home team Jacksonville armada(nasl) don’t even play on a full sized pitch! There is no way it will work unless the lower leagues progress further which they seem to be doing

[@osu5inarow]

GDM You do realize that what you're saying falls in line with the one I brought up. But here let's throw in your home town team and force them to have to fly to LA one week and maybe Boston the next. All that is extremely expensive.

[@BabsW]

@GDM If the MLS announced tomorrow that they won't accept any new expansion franchises, and in 5 years there will be promotion/relegation with the NASL or USL, the values of the NASL or USL clubs would immediately multiply. There would be so many businessmen that would want to invest in NASL or USL clubs, improving things like the youth academies and stadiums, to give them the best chance of being promoted to the MLS ASAP. For example: The owner of Miami FC offered the MLS $4 billion for their TV rights under the condition that they implemented promotion/relegation.

[@westonizzi]

To make our leagues and our country as a whole more competitive in football (soccer) promotion/relegation needs to happen plus it could me a means to introduce even lower tiers that will increase our youth development systems

[@theyellowwall7842]

Weston Izzi it's true, the quality of players produced by america is increasing (pulisic for example) and if all this worked out then in say 20 or 30 years, anericans could be challenging for the world cup

[@Soulinfamous]

Almost every major league soccer teams have good facilities. As he said in the video you're less likely to have tons of cites that can financially support a team anytime soon

[@iMadrid11]

Melvin Has You don't need a Draft system when clubs have youth development teams. The only reason why American sports have a Draft system in place is because Team Owners are cheap. They outsource all their youth development to high school Varsity and NCAA. All they do is just agree on a pick order on who gets to sign a player for free.

[@BKIslandersfan]

Youth development has nothing to do with pro rel.

[@michaelstein7510]

That's not entirely true. The draft still plays a role, but it's much less important now than in the past. All MLS teams are now required to have academy systems that are free for those boys talented enough. But keep in mind that's currently only 22 academies, plus a handful of others, to develop talent in a country of 323 million people. It's not like England, where there are hundreds of professional academies. There simply are not enough academies in this country yet to develop our players in the traditional club-based way. If we relied only on a few dozen academies to develop the talent in our entire nations, tons of kids would never have the opportunity to develop. Don't forget that Geoff Cameron, Omar Gonzalez, and Clint Dempsey, currently three of the best US players, all played college soccer. College soccer is less important now, but it still has a role to play in the American soccer pyramid.

[@mortenfrosthansen84]

It's not a sport, if there's nothing to lose.. Brilliant quote from Pep Guardiola Edit* July 2024 Just to make fun of people, thinking likes makes their comment more valuable or important. I bought half of mine from chinese scammers.. hahaha

[@Endeva09]

*”it’s not sport if you can’t lose”

[@mortenfrosthansen84]

@@Endeva09 ok.. tomato tomato

[@jdbriscoe6658]

You can win or lose the league in any given year

[@Endeva09]

@@jdbriscoe6658 you can’t “lose” the premier league unless you are the defending holders

[@johnganggang9992]

You lose if you dont make the playoffs. Hate when europeans don’t understand a different system. Not worse, just different

[@justjordiano]

The MLS will never be anything more than a retirement home without promotion/relegation.

[@Aljarov]

Man this hasn't aged well....Almiron, Barco, Medina and so many more up and comers....

[@trifecta9810]

@Step Dad. Waaaaaaaaaaa, boo hoo, I want my mommy.

[@jo23bulls]

Dead atmosphere? Atlanta. Portland and lately Columbus are examples of great crowds.

[@tiagozimermann9028]

jo23bulls nothing close to Brazil tho

[@tiagozimermann9028]

Mario L I'm not comparing the leagues, I'm comparing the passion of the fans

[@bluebaron4298]

American: Calls it Soccer American "Soccer" Teams: Have FC in the name

[@emmanueluzoho9064]

oh yeah good point

[@davepazz580]

The people in charge of naming MLS teams are completely unimaginative and lazy... they want to fake their way to respectability by giving themselves these silly titles.

[@kinito992]

@@davepazz580 i dont see it that way. To me the silly names are all these dumb weather/geographic based names like San Jose Earthquakes, Chicago Fire, Portland Timbers or Vancouver Whitecaps. Although Real Salt Lake adding Real cause it sounded "cool" has to be the stupidest one yet, but the rest I like

[@davepazz580]

Anyone can slap 2 silly letters onto a city's name and call it a day... that takes absolutely no effort or imagination whatsoever. It would be ok if just one or two MLS teams were named this way, like a sort of cute little novelty... but it looks extremely generic and fake when you have *this* many teams doing now as if by default. Not to mention the fact that no MLS team is even an actual "club" to begin with.

[@nickn9244]

It’s just for marketing

[@georgeobrien7764]

You overlooked 3 items. 1) History. Most MLS teams have none. Given this, a relegation would be a death sentence for many. 2) Broadcast rights. Div 2 & 3 basically are not on TV. MLS itself has a barebones deal with TV networks. Fragility is everywhere. 3) MLS season has stops and starts due mostly to weather constraints and competition with more popular sports.

[@swunt10]

you are basically taking about money. yes, if they are shitty and get relegated then they will have to make do with less money, just like all other teams in their new lower league. but a team from the 2nd league that became really good even without 1st league money can then profit from being promoted. it's only fair. why should shitty teams expect money showers for ever and ever and really good teams get nothing.

[@phoenix-king779]

George O'Brien the NFL NHl and NBA have the same system as the MLS now. They have no problems. This is the U.S. not f-ing e Europe

[@LeechUFC]

The One 21 george is talking about why relegation can't happen in the mls not promoting it

[@salviniusaugustus6567]

@@phoenix-king779 NFL, NHL and NBA have no problems because it's sports nobody else play in the world. While the MLS is about football so it can be compared to other leagues and everybody can see how the MLS is shit. The others have no problems because you have nothing to compare because it's about sports nobody care except Americans...

[@chengliu872]

@@salviniusaugustus6567: Are you serious? Hockey and basketball are played in many countries in the world.

[@lubondochilekwa]

Who's here after the European Super League has been announced with no promotion and relegation?

[@drillingig2368]

🖐

[@JesuínoPescador]

No relegation system is still the best to prevent big teams winning the championships forever

[@mouradmou4546]

Well I am, the Super League made me hate american sports, I feel like I was sleeping on it, I knew that they worked this way, but didn't realise the mediocrity the unfairness until the Super League was announced.

[@hifjurrahman8060]

@@JesuínoPescador sometimes the big clubs can also get relegated dude. Juventus got relegated in 2006. It takes time and patience to become a big team.

[@makize8428]

Me ,from Bosnia 🇧🇦💙 Like MLS but they need prom/releg

[@Scoinsoffaterocks]

The closed model developed in the US because each media market was too expanse and far away from each other to make pro-reg practical, you can have a situation where entire time zones lack a top tier team. In England however, each team is within a day's drive from each other. Even without promotion and relegation, many cities in the US are still hours away by plane from the nearest pro team or even 2nd tier team. The closed system is also used in other large countries such as China, Australia, Japan (baseball), India (cricket), Russia (hockey), etc.

[@sparkling.water.]

What a time to recommend this to me.

[@steveharris5676]

The football team names in the MLS are like names you'd expect from teams that play for their primary school.

[@LiloDemon]

Some are very Alike to Britishes' ones, what I found amazing like NY City, Atlanta United and etc.

[@LeechUFC]

Lilo Demon that's because NY City is sister team's with Manchester City and Melbourne City if u didn't know

[@StewartEvans52]

yes those man city owners got there fingers in a lot of pies lol

[@Caswell19]

Nah, I'm glad some teams actually are called something that isn't just "Cityname United" or "Cityname City FC". That's so boring and overused.

[@MrChampken]

A bunch of team names in MLS actually follow the Euro style names for Football clubs (City, Real, Sporting and most common across MLS is simple FC). While some others come from the 70s, 80s and 90s old history within the sport and the city (like Seattle, San Jose, Portland and Montreal). A few others were just stupid names from early MLS days.

[@premiersportingkc3443]

While I would welcome Pro-Rel as an MLS fan, it is unlikely to happen anytime in the next 20-30 years. MLS has spent the last decade slowly expanding the league, typically adding one or two teams a year. The stated goal is to make it a 24 team league eventually, but I think once they reach that point the league will continue to expand to 28 and maybe even 30 teams. There is absolutely no way that the league will introduce Pro-Rel during this period, because it would stop teams from wanting to buy into the league. MLS owners spend something like 100 million dollars to buy into the league, build a new stadium, acquire staff and players, etc. For the most part, this has been good for the league. The fanbase is growing, youth academies are improving rapidly, and teams have responsible, stable ownership groups. You won't find any clubs in MLS run like Blackpool FC because of this. Simply put, it's a massive financial risk for MLS to introduce Pro-Rel until maybe a decade or two after it has finished expanding. After that time period, the league could justify Pro-Rel by stating that league owners have had enough time to acclimate to the league and have made the money back on their investment. I cannot see Pro-Rel happening in 2020. Pro-Rel happening in 2040 is likely though.

[@MegaMalik90]

PremierSportingKC I agree with You

[@mFxRampoo]

20-30 years? Jeez it will definetly be implemented in the next twenty years. After Cincinnati there’s and Nashville they’re done with teams. After that it will just grow and we will need relegation and promotioon

[@bri1085]

PremierSportingKC why not do what red bull did in Germany where big ventures start from a regional semipro team and build it up to the to tier.

[@InfinityR319]

After the NASL imploded in the 80s due to the players' arms race, it's understandable that MLS will want to do it slow and steady.

[@yuriydee]

Im a year late but agree with what youre saying. But to just add on I think pro/rel needs to be implemented in D2 and D3 leagues WITH THE PROMISE of pro/rel into MLS in the next 5 years after its implemented in lower leagues. This would give investors time to buy into USL or NASL and build up infrastructure and teams knowing that MLS will be open to them in a few years. The current system doesnt reward teams who've been trying for a long time, but rather allows teams to just appear for any owners thats rich enough.

[@Wuz314159]

Someone needs to explain to me why Promotion/Relegation is such a major topic when, as an American, I'm watching 6 EPL matches, 5 Bundesliga matches, 5 Liga Mx, and 4 UEFA Champions League matches this week..... but only 1 MLS match is available.

[@BabsW]

You just explained it right there. The MLS is not popular among football fans in its own country. They'd prefer to watch other leagues. The MLS needs promotion/relegation to excite fans and improve the stagnant quality. I'm British and American and I never watch MLS matches- only English football and European leagues. I watched a few MLS finals and they were horrifically boring.

[@MajorMumwett]

Without the threat of relegation, top tier teams have no reason to improve because they are safe, 2nd tier teams have no reason to improve because they can never become top tier. It's obvious.

[@BKIslandersfan]

Yes they do, its called selling tickets.

[@tylerriggins8558]

Shawn Ryu try telling that to all the other sports franchises in America.

[@BKIslandersfan]

MLS is gate driven league, NBA, NFL and MLB rely more on TV revenue.

[@hurriyetperver5272]

They adapted an european sport into their own league system. Europeans also adapted the an american sport basketball into their league system. This is just about sportive culture.

[@drewsmith4452]

Here's the bottom line of MLS. All the clubs are 25 years old or younger. In England, France, Germany, etc. clubs have been around for 100+ years. The MLS has done a really good job in such a short amount of time. Give it more time and it will become better. The important thing moving forward is to not try and grow too much too fast, or not stagnate. Pro/Rel will probably be introduced at some point.

[@goranmilic442]

@@N.barakos1845 Lower division clubs from USA could technically move to other countries' leagues (in Europe there is Cardiff City, Swansea City, Monaco, Vaduz, FC Andorra, San Marino Calcio...). There they would have a chance for promotion to first tier competition, CONCACAF competitions and FIFA Club World Cup. Canada could organise such competition or Mexico. Mexican league is already strong, interesting and popular.

[@patrickhiggins5970]

@@goranmilic442 the reason all of those teams compete in different countries is because most of them are really small countries with tiny or no league at all, but they have 1 giant club, so that giant club competes in the bordering country. i also dont think any league would accept an american team because it would be a nuisance. if the team was in somewhere like Omaha, its like a 1000 miles from any border and would be a pain for teams to travel to and fro.

[@goranmilic442]

@@patrickhiggins5970 You got good points there. I believe the only way US could have rel/pro is if FIFA orders it.

[@beardedtinman8491]

No it won't. If anything, the passage of time only makes the adoption of a pro-rel system less and less likely. There will only be less and less incentive for established franchises to risk relegation and change the league format.

[@EvanEscher]

That's interesting because the Earthquakes/Clash have been around on and off since the 70s

[@libertylover1178]

America has no pro rel, but its league structures do a good job in ensuring financial parity across the leagues. No Real Madrids, or PSGs that can just outbid smaller market teams to stay on top.

[@C-Thunder]

Exactly!

[@goranmilic442]

America has leagues that artificially equalize all teams in top tier, so there can be artificial suspense in title chase. But it also closes any chance of lower league teams making the top tier competition. One closed league has monopoly. How is that fair? Compare Ohio with Belgium, they have same population. Ohio has two teams, Cincinnati and Columbus Crew. There is no chance that FC Cleveland or any other team from Ohio can be US champion, because they don't have theoretical chance of promotion and competing. But every Belgium club can be champion of Europe theoretically, from big teams like Anderlecht, Club Brugge, Genk or Standard Liege to any small team. So how can you say that European leagues are not competitive, if there is only two Ohio teams that can be champions and thousand of Belgium teams with same chance. When you compare one US state with one European country of same size, European country will always have more competitive clubs than US state. European Champions League is very competitive. And you have to be qualified to compete there by your national league first.

[@grobariza]

I once added pro/rel and no salary cap on fm 2019 and all the current MLS teams faded away pretty quickly

[@taufiqutomo]

What happens in 2050?

[@the_konando]

Love that this was served to me on the day the Super League was announced

[@MrDJR644]

I live in the USA. I’m a big fan of Pro/Rel. I’ve been a supporter of Luton Town FC since 2016 and the 2 promotions over the years has been amazing. Last year we faced relegation but managed to stay in the Championship on the last game of the season. It was an amazing experience although nerve racking

[@alehlete830]

THERE AR EELAGUES I NAMERICA THAT HAVE PROMOTION AND RELAGATION BUT THEY NOT POPULAR

[@NazriB]

Lies again? Ramenten Rakuten

[@muharremsimsek3032]

This comment aged like a Milk. 2 years later and Luton Town promoted to Premier league. You must be so happy dude. Congrats.

[@yoloswaggins7121]

And now you've been promoted to the Premier league. You must be very happy That's the beauty of pro/rel.

[@Geep615]

Until we get a multi tiered league set up we're never going to make the most of the talent that we have.

[@luisridez9219]

@@procrastinatingpuma what's the point of minor leagues if you can't eventually make it to the major leagues?

[@Cosmic_Cretin]

@@luisridez9219 player development... in Baseball for instance the major league teams own the minor league teams, teams dont relegate, the players do. Contracts are more stiff in American sports, no loans, no free transfers, and you have control over a player for several years after they are drafted. So instead of being a fan of a single team and hoping they make top flight, you instead are a fan of a whole franchise (A, AA, AAA, Majors), and you can follow the teams prospects as they rise through the ranks of the organization. Its just a different way of doing things, not better or worse, while relegation has its advantages (losing having more weight), the American way also has advantages (more league parity).

[@fkingalex1947]

2:00 wtf is that face jeez

[@christophersalinas2722]

1:20

[@hedone13x]

Is that sexual harassment?

[@bgangstaromance7048]

bro thats what im saying lmao

[@Endeva09]

Burn victim or some shit mate

[@ethanvillalba]

Umm (USL PRO) is just called USL now. Just a few notes for non American viewers. MLS reserve teams play in USL. MLS and USL have a partnership that makes USL equivalent to minor league sports league (like tripe A baseball in the states). both NASL and USL (each division 2) are attempting to start up 3rd division leagues under them USL D3 and NISA. As far as the Unites states soccer federation acknowledges there is no structure under division 3 but leagues such as the NPSL, (the league of Kingston stockdale fc) UPSL, USLPDL and many more work as the unofficial 4th division in the United States. It's not a lack of clubs that hinders PROREL in the United States it's that there are so many factions fighting against each other for total control of the pyramid.

[@tynitty516]

Not like Minor league baseball though. Minor league baseball is structured to develop players for MAJOR league baseball. NASL is an indepenent company. USL is an independent company. They're more like the ABA and AFL than minor league sports teams. The only reason they're divison 2 is because soccer has a USSF. MLB doesn't the NBA doesn't.

[@Scorpian58]

No, it's on USSF to stop the fighting between leagues. Their leadership is so poor. Also, NISA is not being started by NASL.

[@subgum3403]

Nasl is dead

[@dawson7148]

So basically they are trying to achieve the crap system of the NBA and G league where there are 2 way contracts and crap. Bruh this is why America is viewed as an outsider literally everywhere else.

[@dawson7148]

DastardlyMuffins teams should move up and down, if a team isn’t good enough then they should move down not one player on their team. That’s what other leagues in the world are for to sell to.

[@mattczech1473]

What I would be interested in seeing it pro-rel in baseball, basketball, and the NFL

[@ArenaTeams2024]

Who would be promoted to the NFL??? The only league right below the NFL is the XFL (which hasn’t even kicked off yet) and all the XFL teams are owned by the league making pro-rel impossible

[@tiernandempsey4951]

It would be a complete shit show lmao

[@austinfeng735]

@@tiernandempsey4951 Then the Knicks will cease to be a thing soon

[@tiernandempsey4951]

@@austinfeng735 Or at least cease to be a division one basketball team.

[@ghostfac3182]

Same

[@stefanospinelli9636]

Usa: Mum can we have ⚽? Mum: we already ⚽ at home ⚽ at home: 🏈

[@cheetahjaguar9087]

usa: thanks mom, this is much better!

[@vinigarr801]

American football is derived from Rugby...

[@ghostninja5035]

American football is good tho

[@vinigarr801]

@@ghostninja5035 agreed, I coach it in the UK...

[@mortenfrosthansen84]

Ridiculous comment.. kiddy talk

[@abbaszaidi8371]

As much as I'd love there to be relegation/ promotion, the clubs are too young. Would a new fan base to a club follow them to the NASL from the MLS?

[@ebraheemhussain6649]

True fans will always stay with their team, no matter which division their team is in.

[@abbaszaidi8371]

Ebraheem Hussain I really hope so. Seen some tifosi re LAFC who were previous LA Chivas. The true test aren’t teams that could be NASL and get “promoted” to MLS, but if they went the other way to NASL or other. Less money less exposure, lose dollars etc

[@partlycurrent]

Maybe American fans don't know what it's like to really supper your team because they never had to endure relegation. In all major sports first division teams' fans don't go through thick and thin with their clubs. Just through thick.

[@678crazydave]

@@ebraheemhussain6649 bullshit. Come on that's just ridiculous

[@nvuhmkfkmzhuf7454]

RB Leipzig is 11 years old son, and made it to semis of the CL stop the excuses and in 250 years ya'll might have a decent league

[@axxessmundi]

That's a tough one. MLS needs gather more revenue to be stable enough to make that sacrifice. They should create an MLS 2 League to see what revenue it gathers and how it stabilizes in a test run. Then when both leagues are stable they can promote and relegate 2 teams.

[@Ballin4Vengeance]

Minor League Soccer. Called MLS as well.

[@AssociationGamers]

A Pro-Rel system too early would damage the growth of the game in the US. Do it when the sport is big in America, when almost every city has an established/popular pro or semi pro team.

[@AssociationGamers]

I agree with what you said about America, but not China (Y)

[@PmartN]

Simon Bohan exactly, plus there is still too much activity in the league ie. team additions including teams like Atlanta and Minnesota and LAFC, it doesn’t make sense to relegate a team like Minnesota when they just came into the league.

[@themeg1145]

And if they have a bad couple of years they move to another city. Instead of suffering from the consequences of failure and keeping in the town and rebuild the club and accept the cycle of success and failure

[@brian898]

Except there’s already hundreds of thousands of soccer first people here that are ignored. SUM makes millions off friendlies and tourneys here. Do more research

[@danineira366]

Funowning they shouldn't have gotten into the league... they should have to start at the bottom and work there way up. If they want the MLS to be global which they do it's pro/rel is needed and if you form a new team you should have to start at the bottom and work your way up. That's how smaller teams grow and get better investment

[@gerardsotxoa]

Basketball works just fine with a close league system. The core of USA's sports are the colleges, if highschools and universities upgrade their soccer level the MLS will improve. Soccer won't take the next level until the NCAA reshapes their soccer model.

[@quabenathalamus]

That’s the reason why soccer in the US is shit . They need to scrape NCAA soccer and draft system and focus on football academies like the rest of the world .

[@tobiogunsina8426]

@@quabenathalamus that’s not the problem. The problem is that the current institutions are not European academy grade yet. What happens is that young players will play in high school and academies and receive proper coaching in college. That’s how all the other major us sports thrive and just cause it’s not working now doesn’t mean it doesn’t work at all. What is needed is interest in the sport and more coaches to develop players and help them get into the sport professionally.

[@Jim90117]

The promotion relegation aspect of European football exists to give anyone the ability to have a grass roots football team and to (presumably over decades) turn them into a top flight professional football team. It also adds drama to the end of the season at both ends of the table and serves as a fitting punishment for not being up to standard.

[@alehlete830]

THERE AR EELAGUES I NAMERICA THAT HAVE PROMOTION AND RELAGATION BUT THEY NOT POPULAR

[@JoshuaFrick3]

I just saw a 60 minutes segment on Christian Pulisic & it interested me, much like the US Men's team run in the 2014 World Cup. I've watched about a half dozen or so futbol videos now & I keep hearing people (many of whom aren't from the US) say the MLS needs to have a promotion & relegation system. It's pretty frustrating to have people who criticize Americans for not doing more to understand futbol culture & the rest of the world turnaround and give uninformed advice about American sports culture. First of all, I've been a sports fan for 30 years & I just heard about the concept of promotion & relegation in European futbol leagues maybe 3 or 4 years ago. It's not a format very many American sports fans are familiar with at all. Secondly, watching this video I learned several things about the MLS that I had no idea about. So, some foreigner continually harping about promotion & regulation without knowing the factors involved is a lot like some narrow-minded American shouting at some foreigner "English boy! English!!" As if to say, "do things the way I prefer them done or get lost". It's rude. Furthermore, I did not realize the MLS was so well-funded, and I didn't realize its owners were so isolated. That said, "soccer" has a long history of failing in America. If I owned a professional futbol team in the US, I would be deathly afraid of its failure. In no way shape or form would I feel comfortable jeopardizing all of the hard work my organization had done by opening the door to relegation. If I'm the Houston Dynamo, how long can I survive if demoted to a 2nd division? In a city like Houston with 3 large professional sports teams, the 4th largest city in the US & so much else to do. The Dynamo are really going to survive a couple seasons in relegation? A professional futbol team goes out of business in a city like Houston & it might be 2 decades or longer before another professional futbol team comes around again. That's a lot to risk for what reward?... I will say this, it does seem the MLS brand would receive a major boost by adopting a pro/rel system & if the MLS owners share ownership of the league as a whole, then in theory it would make it easier for them to sacrifice one team for the good of the league. It seems as though these individual teams have their own team-specific owners too. For example, Oscar De La Hoya is listed as an owner of the Houston Dynamo, and it doesn't appear like he's one of the initial MLS ownership partners. The bottom line: What I don't think foreigners understand is America isn't like your country. I have to preface this by saying I don't know this to be a fact, I can only presume, but I take it that whatever professional futbol team is in your hometown you'll support them no matter what division they play in for however many years they're in that division. America just is not like that. Even in a promotion situation, there are small town teams like the Fort Lauderdale Strikers of the NASL, for example, who would have a hard time supporting a larger-scale league. They play their home games in a stadium which seats a maximum capacity of 20,000. How much can they afford to play their players? Nearby Miami, Florida, is notorious for having league-worst attendance for their 3 professional sports teams. The Miami Marlins of Major League Baseball are always one of the worst attendance teams in the league. Any time LeBron James has not played for the Miami Heat of the NBA, they've had the same problem. Even the Miami Dolphins of America's most popular sport, the NFL, have attendance problems when the Dolphins have a losing record. To be honest, I'm surprised the Fort Lauderdale Strikers have existed for as long as they have. Originally founded in 1977. The Strikers have had several reincarnations. Including 3 periods of non-existence: 1984-1987, 1991-1994, and 1997-2006. It's also quite fair to point out that from 2006-2011, the franchise went by another name & was based in nearby Miami. The Fort Lauderdale Strikers also lost a lawsuit last year to a fellow NASL team owner who now owns the team's name, copyrights & trademarks. In theory, he could force them to fold at any moment. These are realities which uninformed foreigners who seem to routinely post "US has to adopt a promotion/relegation system or they'll always be shit" do not seem to comprehend.

[@krizkeyyy7236]

To Europeans a Promotion of dir example Fort Lauderdale would be a perfect Cinderella story, the small City Team against the giants in MLS... sure they will never win titles, but it would make mls a little more colourful for a few seasons. I understand your point, what I don't understand: pro/rel describes basically the american dream in a few cases... it's funny to me that so many Americans don't like the idea at all...

[@quabenathalamus]

Christian Kobras to them relegation sounds like a death sentence

[@jambondepays1969]

you're right, America is very different from our countries. our countries aren't thrid world shitholes with a first world military that also has no idea how to do professional sports. If basketball continues to rise around the world yall are soon going to realize that youth development in US sports is an absolute fucking joke compared to football-inspired youth development in euro bball teams like real madrid. hell, y'all already get spanked by Cuba in baseball and healthcare lmfao

[@davepazz580]

*what I don't understand: pro/rel describes basically the american dream in a few cases... it's funny to me that so many Americans don't like the idea at all...* It's not a question of not liking the idea itself, but the same result can be achieved with the current single-entity structure... The salary caps for all teams actually facilitates Cinderella stories... losing teams can be made more competitive in a shorter amount of time (provided ownership makes the right decisions) rather than awaiting a new rich owner to swoop in and spend tons of money on new and higher-quality players. At the end of the day, fans who live in larger cities with teams in a fully professional league expect to see the best players at the highest level possible... whether your team has a winning season or a losing season, you at least are assured it won't be because of economic disparity.

[@TheLovosa]

People are forgetting how damn big America is. It's not like in Europe where most trips are less than 5 hours away. Aside from distance alone. The MLS is trying to avoid what happened in the 70's with the NASL where they crashed and burned quickly. They are building a league for the future not for tomorrow.

[@Scorpian58]

They said we'd be a top league in 20 years. I'm not waiting another 20.. there are alot of pro/rel plans out there which are highly regionalized. That should keep travel costs down

[@lopezneymar11]

Scorpian58 and your stupid ass believed it?

[@Scorpian58]

Damn lopez me? I was born in 96 😂 I see people in their 40s and 50s keep saying "just another 10 or 20 years"

[@lopezneymar11]

Scorpian58 50 years ago we didn't have a league your moron and even if we did it as an amateur league. You're just another MLS hater.

[@Scorpian58]

Damn lopez this has nothing to do with what I said 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@Omoplataha]

My view... Promotion and relegation works if the teams coming up can compete against the teams on the higher tier. I like the idea where the bottom team/s face against the team/s trying to earn a promotion. Example from a another sport and different country. Ice Hockey in Finland used to be open with different formats from 1st divisions 1st going against Finnish Leagues last placed team and 2nd going against next to last in best of five series. Last one going strait down and next to last having to compete. 4 team mini series with the last team competing against 1st divisions top 3 teams in a mini series etc... So in the end they proved that they can beat the weakest link and go to the higher league. So before the 2000 when the last promotion/relegation series was held the league was 12 teams. In 2000 when they closed the Finnish League with 13 teams they assured few things. Those who could play against in the Finnish League where playing there. Those who could not make the teams went to play in the lower leagues/divisions. So when they decided to expand further in the mid 2000's with the winner of the 1st division invited in, there was still a huge gap. They had 11 wins in the 1st season (from 58 games) and where int the Finnish League basement for five years until they started to dominate from 2010 on wards. Might have not happened if they were fighting for relegation every year. The Finnish League also has expanded in 2010's further to 15 teams . With one team going to play KHL which was not replaced and one team going bankrupt and for that they raised that years 1st divisions top team up to replace them. Unfortunately the teams that where promoted were/are in the basement now... But with positions 1-6 going strait to playoffs and the teams from 7-10 playing a wild card series to go against regular seasons 1st and 2nd placed teams. Now the middle-basement level has somewhat decreased with usually 14-15 placed teams having the most distance while the teams from 8-12 usually very close to each other... The biggest benefit from not having relegation are of course the teams and the increased financial stability for the fact that you are not going to face relegation, initial downside was that bottom teams sold off there best players middle of the season but with the wild card usually the team that has given up before trade deadline will sell there best players away. Of course this favors teams with money to spend and start arms racing for the playoffs tho field stronger teams... In case of Finnish Ice hockey. If they sticked to 12 teams with promotion/regulation we might have lesser gap between Finnish league and 1st Division. Right now the difference between the two tiers is so huge that it would not make sense to have promotion/relegation since the talent gap has increased even further. The league and teams of it don't want to open up and it is going to stay that way... At least the current system works for them but the lower divisions can only go higher then 1st division. Expansion for those teams is useless and the money is not there to begin with...

[@StaySqueezy12]

Pro-rel is not financially possible right now. The sport is not popular enough nationwide to support it. Also you have to understand, MLS is going against 4 other really popular leagues. American sports fans are very much fans of their city and if say a New Yorker sees that NYCFC is relegate or will be relegated, theyll just go to Yankees, Jets, Knicks, Islanders, games.

[@Tifo]

Interesting point - Danny

[@BabsW]

MLS should not being aiming to attract the general sports fan- who watches 4 sports. Football (soccer) is very different to American sports. This is why the MLS is still not popular. The MLS should aim to attract the Mexican and European league football fans. The MLS is the 3rd-watched football league in its own country after Liga MX and the Premier League. And interest in those other leagues is only continuing to grow. Let's not forget about the millions of Barcelona and Real Madrid fans in the US as well. Did you see the crowd at El Clasico Miami? The same Miami that doesnt want an MLS team. When the big European teams play summer friendlies in the US, they sell out stadiums- including Michigan's- setting attendance records. And those are just pre-season friendlies.

[@kasholadapo7914]

+babsW Yea those are preseason friendlies but they are also games featuring some of the worlds best players and I think this just proves that the quality in the MLS isn't high enough. Fans were willing to come out and watch Messi, Neymar, Pogba and more but most MLS teams don't even sell out their own stadiums much less the huge stadiums used for the preseason friendlies

[@BabsW]

@OG Black Magic Agreed, but the Mexican league doesn't have the best players either, but they are a level above the MLS and their football is more competitive. The way the MLS is going, they will never have any of the best players anywhere near their prime. The only way to do that is to improve the quality by making the football more competitive and aligning with the way the rest of the world runs football- no salary caps, no drafts, promotion/relegation, single-table format, calendar runs from August to May, top youth academies, aggressive scouting in the US and Worldwide, etc.

[@gooseygoose604]

this was the same point I was going to make. If the vancouver whitecaps were relegated than people would stop watching them as it's not popular enough to watch. I also think relegation works better when there isn't a salary cap. that being said a minor league soccer/football team in north america is going to be making so little a 3-4 million dollar cap wont be made back with sponsors and ticket sales. The Popularity of the white caps is slowly going up but toronto vs seattle part 2 was a massive ratings upset, not sure if it's because mls has peaked or people just didnt want to see the same final again. In seattle the sounders are extremly popular, I see Soccer/Football as kind of a regional sport

[@FAITHandLOGIC]

You can't just demand promotion / regulation. You need a solid Division 2 foundation with large stadiums yo fill before considering Div. 1. Also, the MLS owners pay large fees to enter the league. Are you suggesting other teams should get to bypass the expansion fee by winning a second division league? The people crying for this are not looking at the details.

[@swunt10]

it's not about 1st and 2nd division alone. it's about promotion and relegation throughout all leagues. from little villages and pub clubs up to semi professional and professional clubs. all fighting it out over a number of leagues. from regional leagues, to upper leagues, to 3rd league, 2nd league and 1st league or whatever you will call them and how ever many leagues you need. of course the professional leagues will be owned by someone. usually by all professional clubs which usually means 1st and 2d league clubs themselfes. if a club gets relegated out of the professional league they could get a one time pay out and the team getting into the professional league might have to proof financial stability if they want to take the promotion, they then might have to pay something. that's how most pro-rel systems work.

[@quabenathalamus]

This sums up the pay to play system at youth level . Pathetic 🤦🏿‍♀️ 🇺🇸

[@Mchammershot]

Stop the large fees for entering the league, let teams play on the basis of their merits, not their bank accounts.

[@FAITHandLOGIC]

@@Mchammershot Yeah, whatever you say ... 👌

[@michaelstein7510]

We're not ready for it just yet. Like you said, most lower division teams simply do not yet have the fanbase, infrastructure, and academy system required to succeed in MLS currently, and the ones that do (Minnesota, Orlando, and many others) quickly get added to the league. The NASL is in big trouble financially as a league with the Cosmos going bankrupt, but the USL is doing great. Having a team like FC Cincinnati pop up in the third (now second) division and draw 35,000 fans in their third year of existence would have been unimaginable even 5 years ago. There is so much potential for growth in this country, I don't think most people realize how big and populated the USA is. There are massive areas of the country, even entire states, that don't even have a single professional team yet, but that will come in time as the sport continues to grow at a rapid pace. I think pro-rel can become a reality in the not-so-distant future, but let's give the second division leagues more time to grow and establish themselves. The USL has developed at a staggering rate in the last 3 to 4 years, and that is a great sign for the future of American soccer. The worst thing US Soccer can do is implement pro-rel before the American soccer pyramid is ready for it. That would risk badly destabilizing the leagues and undoing many years of hard work and growth. If we were to institute pro-rel, I think it would have to be like the Mexican model, so that one bad season doesn't relegate you, but consistently being a bad team will. That's the only way I can see current MLS ownership accepting it, and it would have to increase the profits of the league, as well.

[@golfer435]

It's a little bit more than just a response to the 94 world cup bid. There were several attempts at pro/rel league structures back in the 70s and 80s and they failed miserably. The closed system structure is significantly more financially stable, which for the US in the 90s made a lot of sense given that the last attempt at pro soccer here fell flat on its face.

[@metrofilmer8894]

Exactly. MLS does single-tier because, understandably, it sees the financial sustainability for teams and the league as a whole as more important and isn’t , at the moment, willing to put the time, money and other resources on making a system that very well could backfire on them

[@golfer435]

@@metrofilmer8894 It probably won't ever happen now that MLS is it's starting its own developmental league. If there's one thing the American sports market is very good at, it is making developmental leagues. Example NHL, MLB, and NBA

[@white95gsr]

Love this vid. I would love for the US to have a pro/reg structure but I really can't see it ever working. I feel like everyone in the MLS would vote against it with fear of the original MLS team owners being scared of losing all their investment if they get relegated. Soccer just isn't that big everywhere over here and I can see a team that gets relegated for a few years go bankrupt right away. I don't agree with how the MLS runs things pro/reg, salary caps, designated players but it works for soccer in this country right now. It holds the league up right now but keeps the talent and competition capped. Maybe in 25 years or so it could be doable. When the usl and nasl can average 8k+ fans a game. When more people have deeper roots to a team that won't be turned off by their team getting relegated. Those are just my 2 cents. Go LAFC!! Lol

[@goranmilic442]

US Soccer Federation should stop considering MLS as first tier competition, because that gives an unfair advantage and monopoly situation to one closed league. Also, MLS should not have 4 places in CONCACAF Champions League. If MLS doesn't want to comply to pro/rel, kick them out of FIFA soccer world. MLS teams can compete for title of MLS champion, while other clubs can compete for title of champions of USA, place in CONCACAF Champions League and eventually FIFA Club World Cup with champions of other continents.

[@bearsarefast1483]

at Louisville City, we just built a 11,000 seat stadium and we've sold out every game. Also Our womens team is top flight for some reason but we aren't. local government here isn't going to shell out any more cash and pro/rel would be our only way into MLS. Pro/Rel is very much wanted too because cincinnati and nashville citizens are paying higher taxes because of the buy ins and pro/rel would lower that

[@alehlete830]

THERE AR EELAGUES I NAMERICA THAT HAVE PROMOTION AND RELAGATION BUT THEY NOT POPULAR

[@MegaCokamo]

Bethlehem Steelers FC should be promoted. They’re the best American team historically speaking

[@MegaCokamo]

John abraham v2 Soo.. The ASL rivaled the NFL as the second most popular sports league behind MLB. It ended in the mid 30s due to the Great Depression. Bethlehem Steel FC was America’s most successful soccer team

[@iamnotthatcreative8069]

@John abraham v2 He's not talking about MLS

[@yahyadipalma6707]

@John abraham v2 soccer is word what you about?

[@yahyadipalma6707]

@John abraham v2 I call it football but it's a valid word as it was used by the fa and to differ form rugby which was also called football.

[@yahyadipalma6707]

@John abraham v2 what your saying is stupid if someone uses soccer doesn't mean they are stupid....

[@danyeo1490]

As a supporter of National League (5th tier) Yeovil Town, it was that one season we had after being promoted to the Championship (2nd tier). Little old Yeovil, population 40,000, with a team made up of free transfers and loanees, locking horns with Forest, QPR and Leeds, packing out our 9,500 capacity ground with a roofless away terrace, was what dreams are made of. Even though it lasted one season, and 3 relegations later, we are playing against Weymouth, Boreham Wood and Maidenhead once again, lucky to get over 2000 fans at a game, I'll never forget that season. We probably won't ever get there again, but the chance to be rewarded for your efforts is what football in England is all about. Pro/Rel gives fans the chance to dream, and if you dare to dream, sometimes the impossible occurs.

[@captainyank138]

But looks like your dreams are crush and you said you’ll never get there again. The pro/reg gives you a possibility of getting into the prem but reality you never will. More less if you do you’ll just drop out

[@mmmcounts]

This was well done; factual and comprehensive in the presentation of recent events. I have been following all of this and was looking to see if important information would be left out, or if certain descriptions would lack important details, but this was quite good. On a related note, I would be very interested in a video that details some of the negative outcomes in the land of pro/rel that's closest to home- Liga MX. Despite being Absolutely soccer-crazy, there have been about a half-dozen sales and movements of teams, some rebrandings and some outcomes that are occasionally very complicated. Not at all fan-friendly, either. These things have all happened in the past 20 years or so, and they have all been directly related to pro/rel. If there was a reasonably detailed vid that detailed those bumps in the road for an otherwise successful and wildly popular league, that would be some very interesting material that English-speaking people are very likely not all that aware of. Cheers.

[@patrickosaseri9671]

It's a little weird of this talk of whether or not MLS should have promotion/relegation, yet I never hear anyone talk about what pro-rel would look like in the US soccer pyramid, especially regarding the restructuring of the USL. Here's how I could see it going (brace yourself, this is quite an essay): Assuming that MLS will expand to 30 teams from recent reports (I personally would've stopped at 24 but whatever), and seeing as already MLS is a large league compared to other top flights, I think that at the end of the season the four worst teams (two from each conference) would be relegated to the USL Championship. Pretty straightforward. As a point of reference, if this were implemented in the 2018 season, the relegated teams would've been: Chicago Fire, Orlando City, Colorado Rapids, and San Jose Earthquakes With this in mind, that would mean 4 teams from the USL Championship to MLS, which may or may not be relatively straightforward depending on what approach USSF want to take with promotion. Like with MLS, USL has a playoff at the end of the regular season to determine the champion, so I think that any sort of promotion may take this into account. Thus, there are three ways I can see promotion to MLS happening: 1: *The top four teams in USL (two from each conference) are promoted.* Nothing complicated here. Again, using 2018 as a reference, the teams that would've been promoted in this scenario are FC Cincinnati (who are already in MLS as an expansion team, soooo...), Louisville City FC, Orange County SC, and Sacramento Republic. This, however, would make the playoffs quite pointless. What's the point of being champion of USL if it doesn't even result in promotion? If the USL Championship were to take this route, I could imagine the playoffs being scrapped. 2: *The finalists of the eastern conference playoffs and the finalists of the western conference playoffs are promoted.* This would give the playoffs a sense of purpose in that getting further would actually mean something to the teams participating in it. For 2018 in this scenario, the promoted teams would be FC Cincinnati (I'll address this in a bit), Louisville City FC, Orange County SC, and Phoenix Rising FC (so not too different from method 1). The only problem with this is that now even a team that has an overall better season might not get promoted, which seems very strange. 3: *The playoff finalists and the top team in each conference table are promoted (assuming there's no overlap).* This would be a compromise between the first two (and personally the one I prefer). Under this system, the winner of the eastern and western playoffs would be promoted, and the top team in the two conferences would go up as well. If a playoff finalist also has the best season record in their conference, then the team that came in second would be promoted. For 2018 in this scenario, the promoted teams would actually be the same teams from method 2, so this time around we got lucky. Also, I think that it should go without saying that reserve teams like New York Red Bulls II or Atlanta United 2 should not be eligible for promotion to MLS (which is why in method 2 NYRB2 were not among the promoted sides and so I decided to go with the highest seeded team that made it the furthest. Thus Cincinnati would go ahead of a team like Bethlehem Steel) Regarding relegation, since the USL Championship currently has 36 teams (hopefully it stays there), I would say that the bottom 6 teams (three from each conference) would be relegated to USL League 1. For the 2018 example, teams that would've been relegated to USL1 would be Toronto FC II (who joined League 1 this year, soooo...), Richmond Kickers, Atlanta United 2, Tulsa Roughnecks, Seattle Sounders FC 2 (now known as Tacoma Defiance), and Las Vegas Lights FC. League 1 is where things hit a bit of a snag because at the moment it only has 10 teams (it will go up to 13 in the 2020 season), and I have now idea how big the league intends on becoming. I would assume large enough that it would be split into two conferences to keep things nice and tidy, but again, it's hard to get a read on it. This league also has a playoff system, so let's assume that it will follow the third method of USLC promotion. Before I talk about relegation from League 1, I'll talk about promotion from USL League 2 first. For those who don't know, USL League two (formerly known as the Premier Development League) is essentially a semi-professional league, kind of like the county level of English football. The league has 72 teams, divided into four conferences (eastern, western, southern, and central), which are further divided into 11 divisions (two in the central conference, three in the rest). The four best teams in each division (winners and the best runner up of each division) enter a playoff. In the prospect of pro/rel, I would say the finalists of the playoffs would secure promotion to League 1, and depending on the size of League 1, the semifinalists of the playoffs could possibly enter a promotion playoff with League 1 teams. Which brings me to relegation from USL League 1. Since relegation from League 1 would essentially mean that you're no longer a professional club, I'd say that the amount of relegated teams should be somewhat limited. Therefore, assuming that the league is large enough that it's split into an eastern and western conference, the bottom team in each conference is automatically relegated to USL League 2, and the second worst team in each conference would enter a relegation playoff with the semifinalists of the League 2 playoff semifinalists. The winners earn the right to play in League 1. And of course there will be some reshuffling of clubs in League 2 should the situation call for it. Once again using 2018 as a reference, the automatically promoted teams would be Calgary Foothills FC and Reading United AC. The teams who would be in the promotion playoffs would be The Villages SC and Chicago FC United. So this is how I think a promotion/relegation system in the US soccer pyramid could work. Of course pro/rel anytime soon is highly unlikely (nor should it happen anytime soon). If MLS were to have pro/rel, it would likely be limited between MLS and the USL Championship to at least give time for USL League 1 to grow. An alternative which has been floating around would be that if MLS were to get so big (say at around 40 teams), it would split into an MLS I and an MLS II and have promotion/relegation between them (granted, the whole thing would still be called MLS). I'm sure many would see this as a kind of bastardization of pro/rel and will only stick with the traditional system, but hey, rather have something than nothing.

[@BoleDaPole]

I think, that the only way this would be possible is by introducing some sort of hybrid system where MLS teams are immune from relegation but the others can be promoted if they are good enough, knocking off previous teams.

[@thetabbyguy921]

I know I'm 2 years late but that doesn't make sense if you're introducing pro/rel you don't want to have teams that are permanently immune to it what would make sense is maybe adopting the argentine pro/rel system which relegates the worst teams based on their points average across 3 years in the league so the only teams that are immune are just temporarily teams who weren't in the league for 3 years yet it also means that a team won't get relegated just because of one bad season they have to be consistently awful

[@JS-cu3mv]

Love how some people presume pro/rel results in a more competitive league. Yet so how every league in Europe has 3-5 teams that win it every year. MLS teams at the bottom have a chance to win it all the next year. It’s incredibly competitive compared to European leagues. American sports will not accept pro/rel, get over it.

[@captainyank138]

They assume it’s so easy just to implement a pro/reg even tho they don’t understand how our league works

[@Harun-cd6jz]

For people outside the United States, you have to understand the "division" and "conference" format of American sports. American sports already has a form of relegation which is being excluded from the playoffs due to preforming poorly in your division or conference. In American sports unlike European football, everything revolves around the playoffs and the playoffs is the pinnacle whereas regular seasons are just qualifiers so think of the playoffs like the premier league or la Liga. Also American sport have divisions which are equivalent to European football leagues. Take American football for example, instead of tier leagues there are 8 internal georgraphical divisions in the NFL. Every division winner makes the playoffs and there are 2 extra slots for the next two best teams that didn't win their division. So winning your division in the NFL is basically a tier promotion with the promotion being the chance to go to the playoffs and compete against the other premier teams in the NFL. Domestic European football does not have internal divisions instead it has completely seperate leagues like Serie A and Serie B in Italia. The division makeup of American sports makes European style relegation irrelevant because a poor performing team will simply get left out of the playoffs which are the pinnacle of American sports due to the money and prestige of participating in the playoffs. Also, playoff teams in American sports are usually viewed as the top elite teams of that sport whereas non qualifying teams are viewed as "lesser" squads. NFL is a good example because the playoffs are purely based off of win-loss records, there are no random "draws" so teams play each other purely based off of records, it is single elimination, and there are no automatic qualifiers like Champions League where the team who won last year automatically qualifies the next season. So theoretically a team can win the Super Bowl/American football title and not even make the playoffs next season. It is all purely based off of your record in the current season and your placement in your division. The NFL teams that make the playoffs are no doubt viewed as upper tier teams. So missing the playoffs is essentially relegation in America. For example, both the Cleveland Browns and Tampa Bay Buccaneers haven't qualified for the NFL playoffs in over 10 seasons. Though the salary cap gives every team the same economic chance the way you spend your money matters. Therefore the salary caps prevents poorly managed teams who spent their money poorly from qualifying for the playoffs. Poorly ran NFL teams also are shown less on television, receive less television revenue, lose potential playoff ticket revenue, and are viewed as "irrelevant" ignored by the media. The Cleveland Browns despite selling out all their games and being locally popular, are essentially the NFL equivalent of a European football squad that has been relegated from EPL because the playoff are the premier league and playoffs appearances are synonymous with "relevancy" in American sports. MLS is built like the NFL with the internal division/Conferences. So relegation would only work if you removed the conferences in MLS. Regardless not making the playoffs is essentially relegation since the playoffs are the main goal of every squad and making the playoffs creates more revenue. The only difference is that the MLS playoffs has aggregate scores and NFL playoffs is a pure single elimination tournament as we say, "win-or-go-home" in America. In my opinion, single elimination is what makes the NFL the most popular sport in the US over basketball, hockey, baseball, but that's my opinion. Anyway I hope this explanation explains the America "equvalent" of relegation and how the division system essentially relegates and punishes poorly ran teams!! Best regards.

[@goranmilic442]

It's not a true pro/rel system, unless every single football/soccer club in country has theoretical chance of winning national title some day. And I mean every club, even from village of 2000 people.

[@lennonseow90]

Thanks, man. Great knowledge for sharing. This is why this is the best football KZbin channel!

[@joeleuer1842]

Size of the US is a major issue. If an English team goes down to the championship travel costs are basically unchanged and not very high. US teams must fly, it is the only option. Without the revenue of the MLS this makes it very expensive. Going from Minnesota to Kansas City or Chicago, the two nearest teams, is an 8 hour drive. Going to Miami is a must to fly unless you plan on traveling for days. Americans also enjoy parity in their sports. One or two teams dominating like in the European leagues wouldn't go over well, in order to maintain parity you have to have the guarantee of a closed system. The super league is really a reaction of the sport gaining popularity in the US. If the MLS starts making NBA money, never mind NFL money, they will quickly have the best players in the world and be considered one of the best leagues.

[@jakecortez4795]

Also the fact that Canada is involved the usl is an American only league making it impossible for Canadian teams to get relegated

[@mala4196]

Super League is the future of European Football unfortunately not many like the idea... it would be great

[@yoloswaggins7121]

But that is still the case right now. USL teams are split East and West like MLS teams. Promotion/relegation wouldn't change that

[@yoloswaggins7121]

Also the "parity" of the MLS has nothing to do with the fact that it's a closed closed. It's a combination of the salary cap and the fact that teams are constantly going bust and being created.

[@killercaos123]

Thank you guys for muddling through our overly complicated and messing system. I couldn't have explained it better myself. You guys hit it right on the head. Also I'M SOUNDER TILL I DIE!

[@3dsaulgoodman43]

@@LM-yi9qb 6 months later I'm coming back to tell you that so many people care about the MLS, and you're just a lousy hater.

[@3dsaulgoodman43]

I like the Sounders, but in the MLS, I'm RSL for life.

[@killercaos123]

LJ X hate us cause they anus

[@JacobSauers]

They’re forgetting one thing: these are Americans, not Europeans. As soon a team gets relegated, the American “fans” will go straight to the next biggest team. Soccer isn’t big in America and I would argue people don’t support the teams for the sport, they support because they like the thrill of the event; of getting together, being loud, being competitive.

[@davepazz580]

Exactly... people don't seam to realize that in America, teams within the same league are not in competition with each other over profits, but rather the entire *league* is in competition with another totally different sports league for profits.

[@elparcero1220]

It's all entertainment for them

[@exentr]

I like both Bundesliga and MSL. The insane, INSANE, amount of money isn't involved. Another thing with US great team sports is that the rivalry is decent. Great sportmanship.

[@joshuaelliott1736]

Can't happen if they want the 'anyone can win the league' approach, and also can't work with a draft

[@frasstvhs6141]

no

[@NostalgiNorden]

So fuck the draft.

[@Rooksftw]

The idea of drafting for a league that doesn't dominate that sport globally is ludicrous to me. With the first pick we draft Lionel Messi. Oh, he's not coming? Well fuck.

[@emirkaya2483]

mls drafts people? Loooool

[@louispecceu2952]

Rooksftw kyler Murray and the Oakland a’s have entered the chat

[@JonnyInfinite]

I can remember when MLS had a countdown and a weird running penalty shootout if there was a draw. Crazy. Nice throwback to Diana Ross and that atrocious pen BTW

[@michaelstein7510]

Yeah. That was the very early years of the league. I wanna say they scrapped that idea in 1998. MLS players joke about bringing the run-up penalties back all the time. It was pretty fun to watch what some of the more creative players like Carlos Valderrama and Marcelo Balboa would do.

[@johanericsson7309]

The ice hockey style penalty shootouts were hilarious, regardless of how stupid it looked.

[@ChristopherJamesG]

Once again, good video. Alot of us here in the states want a change so our league is more competitive globally (if not just in Concacaf) but the change has to be done safely from the inside out or the league will belly up. Right now we're a different sporting landscape and we really need to pick our battles within MLS. The salary cap, scheduling and the college draft (among other things) Are things that could be argued as needing to happen before installing pro/rel.

[@youraverageimperialguard7932]

I'm really tired of Europeans constantly insisting that "American soccer is inferior" because we don't have Pro/Rel. I like the closed league system, I don't care if pro/rel is what the rest of the world does, It doesn't work in the U.S.

[@metrofilmer8894]

I know right. Many countries have single tier systems

[@smokesletsgo2374]

Plus in the US there are so many sports, basketball football hockey baseball and others for fans to be divided into, not to mention college versions of all of those, so it's not like England where "football" is the only sport and everything else has a niche following at best. So whether a club is in the Premier League or League 1, it will have at least a decent following. If the Baltimore Orioles were relegated to AAA baseball and faced the Omaha Storm Chasers or the Jacksonville Jumbo Shrimp, would they have the same interest? Absolutely not lol. Pro-rel only works if soccer/football is THE main sport in the country, like England or Germany.

[@ShehuStebe]

The MLS is the strongest reason why pro/rel is simply a relic of the past where the team with the most money doesn't equal instant championships. DC United, a team that when I was a kid was an absolute shitshow, is now the strongest competitor in the entire league. Toronto FC is also another example, where 10 years ago it would be impossible to think that they would ever win a cup and they won against arguably the strongest team the MLS had ever seen (Dempsey's Sounders). To introduce relegation would mean that poor, short term spending and trade practices would occur and harm the sport as a whole. In every league that the US offers (NBA, NHL, NFL etc.) breaks numerous revenue records and has packed stadiums due to the fact that the competition and ability to bounce back is high.

[@ianlinnarz7624]

Umax also the mls is planning is planning on adding 28 teams in total to the league. But there is going to be a 3rd division added next year for city who are not too interested in soccer. But I think that a pro/relaxation system in the second and third division would be a good start because both leagues don't have much money to lose as compared a drop from 1st to 2nd division.

[@ryandwisetiawan2144]

Look at Premier League last 10 years champions than look at NBA last 10 years champions then tell me who's more competitive?

[@paulmiller7838]

I am all for promotion / relegation as it will make the regular season table really matter. As it is if you are horrible you get rewarded with a higher draft pick instead of being punished for not investing in your team. However, a lot of things would need to change and fairly drasticly for this to even work. As it stands there are a considerable number of teams in USL (2nd division) which are just offshoots of MLS teams. Such as Red Bull II and Galaxy II. It wouldn't really be resonably for LA Galaxy and LA Galaxy II to exist in the same league should one get promoted or relegated. So these teams would either have to be sold off or just disbanded. Then you have the biggest issue. Money. The current owners have to pay $$$$$$$$ to start a team in the MLS and if they were to get relegated they would probably fold due to no longer being able to support their debt. So, there are a lot of issues which would need to be addressed but in the end I still 100% support it.

[@fensen6949]

People complaining about US not having pro/rel system have no real knowledge about Geography. USA is a massive country with an area of *9 million sq. km* which is significantly larger than England (130 thousand sq.km), Germany (357 thousand sq.km), Spain (500 thousand sq.km), France (543 thousand sq.km), Italy (301 thousand sq.km), and many other european nations *combined* . Let's say USA does have a pro/rel system and teams from small local clubs of _Oregon, North Dakota, Arizona,Texas, kansas, Florida, Wisconsin, Maine, West Virginia_ end up on the 3rd division.. (for Europeans perspective, it is like having teams from small towns of _Ireland, Denmark, Latvia, Portugal, Serbia, Libya, Egypt, Iraq, Russia, Kazhakhstan,_ all in a 3rd division battling for pro/rel) Imagine the travel cost and travel exhaustion the team have to undergo every week, and for what..? to get promoted or demoted to a new tier which may not be as prestigious as the first tier.

[@mangofangoe315]

Absolutely nobody: Tifo Football: up arrow down arrow

[@gobbidimerda2496]

I'm italian and I think the day they introduce relegations in USA soccer will instantly become the most popular sport in the coutry, because is a sport where fans support their local team regardless the division. This year, here in my coutry, a team called Spal (the team of Ravenna) has been promoted in serie A after 50 years. They have always been very passionate fans, although many of them have never seen their team in serie A in their lives.

[@themeg1145]

gobbi dimerda I know what you mean Hull had to wait 104 years to get to the premier league. To make it even sweeter the player who scored the goal to get hull promoted was Dean Windass. Who went to school 100 yards away from boothferry Park (hulls old stadium) and if that isn’t awesome I don’t know what is. (For Americans imagine if an nfl team had been around for a hundred years and never won the super bowl, then they get to the final and it’s a tie until the dying minutes and a player who was born and raised across the road from the home stadium scored the winning touchdown)

[@Meirstein]

The Chicago cubs have you both beat. They went 108 years between World Series victories. The entire culture of the team essentially shifted from trying to win the series to be the country's lovable losers who grumbled about a goat.

[@gooseygoose604]

a sport where the championship and deciding game did 1.7 million views and the average other game did 300,000. views. I think they need a lot more than adding relegation and promotion to even come close to the 100+ million views the superbowl does.

[@LilRedRasta]

Yeah.....because an Italian knows more about the climate of football in the US than an acutal american. Pro-Rel would not work in the US right now. It would destroy all of the progress we have made these past 20 years.

[@robertevbayekha6639]

Cool but no way being popular sport in America but is going to be popular tho

[@jackdaniel8973]

you don't need prom/rel , just need to divide each conferences ( east/west ) into 3 divisions like in NBA and add 10 teams in each divisions ( 30 teams east / 30 teams west = 60 teams in the league ) At the end of the season , the top 2 of each divisions go to the play offs + 2 wild cards = 8 teams for each conferences like in the uefa champion league . Sorry for my english i'm French

[@matty-hf3zv]

If pro rel was introduced in MLS, people would just go to other sports, unlike most countries, soccer/ association football isn’t the most popular sport. If Minnesota was relegated, the fans may not care enough to watch a second division team, when they could watch an NBA game, NFL game, MLB game, or NHL game, because those sports are more popular in america than soccer is. the sport needs to grow more, and become more popular before something like pro/rel can be introduced

[@AdamTheMan1993]

My local football club Chesterfield FC has existed since 1866 and has never played in the 1st tier of English football but one thing that has kept the club going is the fans loyalty somethin Americans will never understand

[@matty-hf3zv]

@@AdamTheMan1993 See the loyalty of fans for teams like the Yankees who have existed for a very long time, if soccer had been played professionally in America for that long, there would be fans for it too, but our pro league has inly existed since the 90’s and other sports have been played here far longer, same reason there isn’t a big american football league, or baseball league, or basketball league, or hockey league in the UK, they are new sports in that country

[@soroush6927]

I agree with your point on popularity. However, I still think even after getting more popular, MLS doesn’t need pro/rel. Look at NFL and NBA. Football (American) and Basketball are very popular in US and the leagues don’t have pro/rel. Still, NFL and NBA are among top sports leagues in the world.

[@FozzQuaker]

Could something like what happens in Scotland at the moment, where the team who finishes dead last in SPFL 2 plays off against the winner of the Highland and Lowland League Play Off game. So do it either 1. At the end of the season, the winners of the NASL and USL Pro play off with the winner playing the team who finished last in MLS or 2. Put the bottom MLS team into a 3 team mini league with the NASL and USL Pro Champions with the team who wins the mini league getting MLS Status

[@Foog123]

Yeah it’s a good place to start

[@EricJCaraballoso]

Wow Tifo has really improved it's effects and audio over the years. Still great content!

[@Ewsterz]

This is the only league to have a draft tho and works similar to how other North American leagues happen

[@blazinnub2097]

This would be very difficult due to how big the US is. We have conferences to reduce this problem, but adding pro reg would really mess that up

[@joedavis85929]

American sports considerably more parity which is the primary benefit of a closed system. If they operated the way European soccer leagues do then teams from New York, LA and Chicago would win all the time.

[@Bjon10]

Make a video about Messi joining Inter Miami

[@Caswell19]

You think our league sucks but honestly I couldn't care less. MLS is entertaining as hell and is actually competitive amongst many teams, instead of AT MOST 5 teams having any chance at winning the title like in Europe. Hell, most leagues in Europe only have one or two teams that have any sort of chance and 18 of the 20 only are fighting to stay in the league. Where's the enjoyment in knowing who's going to win before the year even starts? And yes, pro-rel would be nice but the sport is still young here and the USL/NASL doesn't have the infrastructure just yet. We don't have the history and that's fine, we're growing tremendously and owners all over want in on the action. That's an amazing thing. I don't understand why Eurosnobs have to keep shitting on the greatest sport in the world growing... Makes no sense.

[@wba6787]

I'm an English guy living in Denver, although I don't really watch the Rapids. The problem for me is that I don't really see any reason to have a connection to the club. Unlike West Bromwich Albion, my team back home (who go back generations in my family), the Rapids really don't seem part of the community here. I'm sure the whole "franchise" concept is great from a business perspective - just plopping a team down wherever some company identifies a market and a local government to rip off - but I for one would be much more likely to follow a locally-founded club through the lower leagues and up into the MLS than some geographically peripheral corporate entity. Soccer in the US is competing with a whole host of more popular sports that already offer that kind of support to someone. The NBA, NFL, NHL etc. all sell people an entertainment experience, and everything around the game is meant to constitute more of a night out than purely an exercise in following your team. The MLS at the moment is trying to do the same thing but worse, and with no established history. If you live here in Denver, for example, the Broncos are right downtown, surrounded by hundreds of bars, and the stadium is huge with amazing facilities. The Rapids play out on the plains, surrounded by absolutely nothing, and with little access to transit. But I'd honestly challenge anyone to say that they feel like they're a "part" of the Broncos, or the Avalanches (a team that was moved from Quebec). And that's definitely how soccer can differentiate itself: having clubs created and supported by the community, and that people can get involved in and watch grow, until eventually they're in the MLS (see: Bournemouth, Swansea as more recent examples in the EPL).

[@newyorker2004]

Another reason why MLS might not have a relegation system anytime soon is because of American sports culture. Americans do not want their favourite team to be in a lower division where there are teams with lower talent level. Even though Europeans like EPL fans will continuing on saying that MLS need relegation, do you really think Americans will react to it well?

[@Truman5555]

Most american sports fans are not "die hards". If you suck, they will ditch you for a bandwagon until the next season starts.

[@rusedgin]

We European don't want our teams in lower divisions either. This discussion is just bullshit. When teams are in relegation position everyone's scared, anxious and players start thinking on getting out. Teams play defensively. I really don't see any benefit except giving teams from shitty towns a chance to play in top divisions.

[@CoolioXXX52]

@@Truman5555 that's completely false

[@StylistecS]

Martin that’s false. Teams relocated by owners couldn’t get what wanted out of that city. So they relocate to another. It’s no different when comerica left Detroit and went to Dallas. Perhaps the model of franchise is the bigger problem.

[@Ese96Agboaye]

Since this video was uploaded, AUFC have gone on to win their first MLS Cup, and are the new US Open Cup holders. FC Cincinnati have joined, as have LAFC.

[@3dsaulgoodman43]

Edit: Inter Miami and Nashville SC have also joined.

[@user-ei7ed6zy9k]

I'm happy for the MLS to experiment long term with this structure. For example, 20 years ago, the idea of a salary cap was insane to me, now its actually needed in Europe.

[@darealpapajon]

Definitely needed in europe. Its not fun seeing the same couple of teams always winning in Europe

[@yoloswaggins7121]

The salary cap is one of the things American sports does right. Fifa and Uefa should have implemented long ago.

[@klaze9318]

There should be promotion and relegation, it would benefit the sport, the league, and helped them compete against CONCACAF CHAMPIONS LEAGUE, and later in like friendly's against European teams, with a promotion and relegation, teams that are last 3 or something, and with the teams trying to promote up 3, they would have to play against each other in some playoff where there can be 2 legs if they want and whoever wins in aggregate are promoted or stay and whoever loses, don't get promoted or are relegated (Teams should be added and promoted with the best play in each conference, probably 3 for each or more), it would make the game, and league in the US, more rigorous, and competitive where to win you have to be really good and one of the best, it would help the league in Concacaf Champions League and in Friendly's and help US Soccer as a whole, and make US soccer and the league more interesting but also frightening for teams. US Soccer and the league would improve and better as a whole, I hope they add this really soon in the near future.

[@CoroCola]

i really REALLY like this video. because i live in the US. and i myself find the MLS boring for a number of reasons. one of the main reasons is just this. having the same teams every year gets boring after a while. having a relegation system implemented gives team who are at the bottom a reason to try harder and it makes tension towards the end of the league. now a days its all "oh. were in last place of the eastern conference? oh well. well get them next year, we are still in the MLS" but they should be, "we need to step up our game or we will be relegated to NASL. and lets face it some teams in the past did deserve to be relegated and let a new team step in while they get their things together, Chivas USA (multiple times), Chicago Fire (multiple times), Colorado Rapids (2015). MLS needs a relegation/promotion system

[@dynacrack2219]

mls doesnt need pro rel. There is a difference between need and want. Did you watch the video?

[@brandonpazmino8349]

amen to that

[@davepazz580]

*having the same teams every year gets boring after a while.* Couldn't be any more boring than having the same team win the league title every year... *having a relegation system implemented gives team who are at the bottom a reason to try harder and it makes tension towards the end of the league.* "Try harder" = playing boring, defensive soccer in an attempt to not lose instead of playing to win. *now a days its all "oh. were in last place of the eastern conference? oh well. well get them next year, we are still in the MLS"* That's that the *fans* would say, and rightly so... But the players who didn't acquit themselves well enough? Not so much... they would instead be worrying if they will still have their place on the team for the following season (and rightly so). *but they should be, "we need to step up our game or we will be relegated to NASL.* Except the top players in the team would know if the team gets relegated, they will simply get another chance with another MLS team for next season anyway... *and lets face it some teams in the past did deserve to be relegated and let a new team step in while they get their things together, Chivas USA (multiple times), Chicago Fire (multiple times), Colorado Rapids (2015).* What would have been the point? It's not as if the team replacing them would be of Real Madrid or Bayern Munich quality... you'd simply be replacing one bad team for another equally bad team, that's all... You're looking at this entirely the wrong way regardless... Teams that don't earn enough points to qualify for the playoffs are in effect "relegated" because they don't continue to play on with the teams that did at the end of the season...

[@SuperMusicjay]

A similar situation exists here in India where it was recently decided that ISL, previously a tournament, would now be the top-tier league, pushing the I-League to the second tier of the pyramid. While Aizawl FC won last year's I-League title, they weren't promoted to ISL because they didn't have enough funding and sponsorships to play in the top-tier. Instead, tenders were sent to East Bengal, Mohun Bagan and Bengaluru FC (teams who have huge funding) to join the new ISL. Out of the three, only BFC accepted the request. Most of the fans of Indian Football find this to be a very evil decision by AIFF (India's Football governing body). Can you maybe do a video on this subject too? It would help create awareness of the situation within my country, helping us to raise our voices and improve the standard of national football in a country full of passion for the sport. Thank you. Keep making such great content!

[@swaerd3264]

Overall a good review (and I realize I'm 2 years late here, but w/e) but it misses the biggest factor that would make pro-rel hard even if the league was willing: Geography. A lot of Europeans fail to understand the size of the US. To get across my state the shortest way takes 4 hours, and my state is in the middle of the size list. If a team like Forward Madison were suddenly promoted, they wouldn't just have to have structural depth for players and whatnot, they would suddenly have to travel from Wisconsin to places as far flung as Florida and California. By car, Madison, WI to Los Angeles, CA is a 29 HOUR drive. That's nonstop, by the way. You can't just bus around the country like you can in many European countries. So obviously, you'd have to fly. The logistics of a team freshly promoted (therefore likely on the bottom end of budget) to the 5th most popular sport in the US (behind MLB, NBA, NFL, and NHL) finding the money to pay for a significant number of flights, which necessarily include a full team (15+ players), coaches, and staff is unrealistic at best. Any team brough up from USL or NASL into the MLS without proper funding/business deals in place would go bankrupt immediately. Another issue is that there just aren't as many teams, nor do they go as deep. We don't have the culture over here of every town and city having a team to some degree. You're lucky if a reasonably large metro area has two teams in the professional range. There just isn't as much depth to the leagues as there is in Europe. The points made in the video are all very valid, and probably the foremost reasons pro-rel is at best a LONG way off, but I hope my comment was able to illuminate another major problem. In some ways I wish we had the same love and history of soccer as the rest of the world, but as it stands it's just unrealistic.

[@nvuhmkfkmzhuf7454]

yeah russia agrees..... excuses excuses and more excuses simple fact of the matter is: Ya'll suck baaaad

[@Mchammershot]

Brazil is bigger than your country and they are poorer, have a worse infrastructure, so stop with the excuses.

[@TOTN17]

@@nvuhmkfkmzhuf7454 the bulk of russian clubs in the top 2 divisions (3rd division and below is regionalized) play in western russia

[@TOTN17]

@@Mchammershot if you mean in Land Mass the USA is bigger

[@edwincitomeza]

This needs to happen this will also help pay to play

[@durdydurds301]

another important facet of the American sports system is the use of collegiate athletics and drafting system. Whereas European clubs have youth academies devoted to football development, much of the amateur talent brought to American professional leagues spawn from drafts in conjunction with the NCAA. This proves important in a closed league system because low-market teams still have a reasonable chance at competing by building and cultivating talent through the draft if their club is not an ideal destination for transfers or free agents (LA and Kansas City being perfect examples of this dichotomy). If a pro-rel system were to be put in place, larger market teams would slowly overtake middle and low-market teams and cities, creating greater disparity in the league - Bayern and the Bundesliga are a prime example of this. The closed league system works in America bc it allows these low-market cities a chance at winning a title - such as Toronto did in the NBA a few years ago (and they aren't even in the USA). It levels the playing field for these smaller clubs to have a chance, compared to Leicester City being the first team outside the Big 6 to win the Prem in over 3 decades.

[@bigbuffguy9589]

I doubt relegation will ever happen in the US. It's just a completely foreign concept, as literally none of the top sports leagues in this country (NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL) use this system. It was hard enough for soccer to establish any kind of foothold in this country (multiple leagues failed before the MLS had a modest amount of success--it's still a distant fifth among pro team sports). Relegation would be suicidal. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Europe or other places having this system. It seems to work for them, but it just is not viable here.

[@Alastair.S]

Promotion and Relegation cannot work in places like America and Australia. The countries are way too big for smaller clubs to travel everywhere. In Europe, you can drive to the other stadiums within a reasonable amount of time. In Australia and America the teams would have to fly to each game.

[@metrofilmer8894]

Very true. One of the large reasons that franchising won out over club format in the US is because of size

[@AdamTheMan1993]

Russia is the biggest country in the world and they use the pro/rel system so your logic is complete BS

[@jakecortez4795]

@@AdamTheMan1993 Russia = oil money

[@captainyank138]

@@AdamTheMan1993 it’s not complete bs. Russian has like one team that’s far out there. And you know what happens? The teams in the west of Russia just send their reserve team to play them. Plus the USA has habitable everywhere. Compared to Russia where you only have one team in the east

[@gustavogomes4901]

Brazil is big and have promotion and relegation, so USA can do it

[@evycmd]

Excellent vid... my first real insight into American soccer inner wiring!

[@Good100]

You can't impose a system that grew organically over centuries in Europe into a young, small league in America. Europeans ignore that their system is a product of evolution that you can't speed up as quickly as they'd like. And it has nothing to do with the quality of the league. That has more to do with the fact that most Americans like 3 or 4 other sports more than soccer.

[@yoloswaggins7121]

You can't have a pyramid with lots of open divisions like in Europe but the US could definitely have at least 2 open divisions. They should do promotion/relegation between division 1 and 2 at the very least. We do that in my country and we also have 3-4 other sports that are more popular than soccer, plus our teams are much poorer than American teams and yet we have pro/rel

[@anthonylong9067]

Why do people always leave out canada in this league?

[@nvuhmkfkmzhuf7454]

who is she ?

[@uwew.4206]

Pure ignorance: MLS is a North American League. (And by the way, it doesn't help that you can't be bothered to write Canada using a capital C.)

[@sergiowinter5383]

@@uwew.4206 *Laughs in mexican*

[@bradellis6406]

You're videos are awesome! Please keep this up, especially the tactics vids 👍🏼👍🏼

[@Tifo]

Thanks Brad, support like yours helps us continue doing them! - Danny

[@user-wf6is9kf2u]

Me as a European can't understand how its possible you cant promote or relegate in any proffesional sport. So you can get last in the league every year without consequence? Absurd.

[@davepazz580]

There is a consequence for a team finishing last... the players and the coaches don't get to keep their jobs. As an Amercian, it's equally hard to understand how it's possible to punish the fans (who pay for tickets and financially support the team) by having them endure at least a year of second-rate, lower-league soccer for something they had absolutely *no* control over... The *only* ones responsible for finishing last would be the players on the field and the coaches... that's it. Therefore, *they* should be the *only* ones to get "demoted" by being fired, sent down a league or elsewhere... the fans paid money to watch top-league soccer and they should *always* get that no matter what.

[@RollOnToVictory]

One of the biggest problems is Pro/Rel VIOLATES one of the American sports culture's most vital principles: "There's Always Next Year."

[@BhBc8f8]

why does that apply to only Americans. Arsenal fans say that all the time

[@MustacheDLuffy]

@@BhBc8f8 it isn’t American it’s a sport thing

[@hektikwogz8201]

you should do a video on the A-League and the implications its going through at the moment

[@DudeTotally1000]

Oh no! One rich team won't be able to monopolize the league while the rest play for nothing! Pro/rel adds no "integrity."

[@GlodelaniaChannel]

It's not football if they don't have relegation and promotion, it's soccer.

[@davepazz580]

When Péle called it "The beautiful game", he didn't say "The beautiful game... as long as you kick out the worst team from the league every year..."

[@yoloswaggins7121]

We call it soccer in my country and we have promotion/relegation.

[@stevenygabbyperez695]

Because no one that isn't stupid would ever start a modern PROFESSIONAL football league with promotion relegation. Not to mention where exactly would MLS relegate to? USL?!?! The leagues aren't comparable. In Europe a lot of the teams that get promoted have been up before and are often from larger areas that can support larger salaries so sometimes the lower divisions top teams are as good as the higher division's worst team. In this case the difference between the promoted and the relegated is not thay far apart. USL spending is so much lower that entire USL franchises can be bought for much less than some individual player salaries. In fact as little as 6 years ago you could by a USL team for $1million. Now it is $12million and I believe that bump is because of MLS overall popularity and the fact they have invested in some USL clubs as well. This means that if you relegate an MLS team you will replace it with a team that is 1/40 the value. They would lose every game, oh and by the way take out two or three MLS franchises while your at it and cause so much instability over all that the league could collapse and we could lose football all together. People act like pro/rel is critical component to competitive sports. It is just a European tradition and over time they naturally built the infrastructure to support pro/rel.

[@vincenzodanello4085]

As soon as MLS reach 32 teams, (happening in a few years), they should divide it in 2 divisions of 16 teams, with a pro-rel system. This would be better for clubs that usually finish in the Bottom of the MLS. I think fans of the weaker teams would prefer playing for the title in 2nd division, rather than playing with nothing at stake. Matches at the top of the 2nd division would be interesting to Watch because there is a title on the line, and it would attract sponsors, TV broadcasters, fans,...

[@ATLMike94]

There are no teams who constantly finish at the bottom that play for nothing. Every team has a chance to become champion Every year. That's the beauty of having a salary cap and not having pro/rel. Keep that in Europe

[@dragonmark9092]

Promotion/Relegation actually HELPS USL and NASL because fans will be far more invested knowing that their City's team has a fighting chance at one day going for the MLS Cup.

[@davepazz580]

Or they can just move to a larger city and attend a real MLS game...

[@thetabbyguy921]

@@davepazz580 that is simply bullshit

[@davepazz580]

@@thetabbyguy921 How so?

[@thetabbyguy921]

@@davepazz580 you expect someone to move to a different city just because their current city's team isn't in a top league that's kinda dumb

[@davepazz580]

@@thetabbyguy921 I didn't mean *only* for that reason... but many people do leave smaller towns for larger ones anyway for better opportunities.

[@Whydoallgameshateme]

To be honest even if there was two MLS divisions (given the prospective number of new expansion teams), MLS 1 and MLS 2 could provide an start to a pro rel situation. There's also a new planned USL division to be the us division 3. Small steps will slowly open the pyramid

[@TickleMeElmo55]

This the type of attitude that's needed. Not some bitch of "the evil owners and money and stupid stubborn Americans!"

[@sanjarsocool]

It’s simple Americans do things that are profitable rather than out of love an tradition

[@brandonescalante6374]

We don't got time for that shit we tryna make sum bread boi

[@rickyrick2330]

or they dont want the same 4 teams winning the championship each year

[@dripgawd1992]

@Nic Lazzari Full of tradition my ass, isnt a team just moving to different city a common thing in American sport lel

[@SingaporeSlingerPlays]

The MLS draft means that a pro rel is simply not plausible. You would have to eliminate the draft and have youth recruitment

[@inquisitive871]

Eliminate the draft. It's bullshit.

[@turdferguson6620]

@@inquisitive871 How so?

[@jakecortez4795]

@@inquisitive871 Say what

[@ishaqsalih9283]

You guys are the most underrated channel on KZbin, keep up the good work it'll eventually get noticed and you'll have the amount of subscribers you deserve :)

[@johnyapple8447]

A promotion/relegation system would improve the talent of both clubs and players in the MLS because teams that cannot perform for an audience shouldn’t perform; teams that deserve an audience should be able to perform. It is that simple. Economics, politics, and corruption *(i.e. capitalism)* play critical roles as well. However, nothing of these entities will improve the performance of the MLS, NASL, and USL overall like a promotion/relegation system. Money will be lost, but performance will increase and possibly bring even more money with it.

[@TheCapitaineR]

You telling me that teams in the NFL, NHL, MLB and NBA have no incentive to perform ?

[@johnyapple8447]

@@TheCapitaineR They do not when the worst teams only wait for the number one pick season after season. If under performing teams were cut out, the competition to stay in the league would be much greater.

[@TheCapitaineR]

@@johnyapple8447 No teams in these leagues are happy being outed from the playoffs years after years. (Playoffs who can be seen as a form of relegation, teams who don't perform well in a particular year are excluded. Playoffs being the only thing that matter really in those leagues. No one care about your good season if you end up losing first round of the playoffs.) No one who watch pro sport in North America is under the impression that teams don't want to be competitive in the major leagues because they are not afraid of relegation.

[@johnyapple8447]

@@TheCapitaineR You're right that teams do not want to perform poorly, but I feel that having the same teams year after year dismisses all competition outside of the leagues, ignoring other opportunities. Look at March Madness and how established teams can be embarrassed by smaller teams. That is what having promotion/relegation does to both big and small leagues. It incorporates an entire sport, not just a league.