What if Messi & Ronaldo Never Existed?

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Can you imagine a world without Messi and Ronaldo? Who would be the best football player in the world then?
Who would have won the Ballon d’Or each year since 2008 and been crowned the world’s best?
Seb Stafford-Bloor writes, Philippe Fenner illustrates.
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#Ronaldo #Messi #BallonDor

[@jackwalker5790]

Would love to see a video on how Messi and Ronaldo have changed the global perception on what it means to be the best in the world, for example how long term consistency and unrealistic goals output is now expected of players who may have received the top awards with fewer goals or 1 amazing season

[@jackwalker5790]

Couldn’t help but think about this when I was watching 90s football clips of Romario and Rivaldo and Zidane and Del Piero and how these players in the modern age probably don’t get the respect they deserve for being some of the greatest to ever play the game

[@shutupMaji]

How long until a player who isn't a goalscorer is considered the best player of their generation

[@clarenceonyekwere5428]

True, would have loved to see how they’ve shaped goal and assist records too

[@christianopulinaldo8319]

@@shutupMaji Zidane

[@BajaToxic]

Same thing with la liga that time.Dropping 2 points is a matter of life and death between Barca and Real

[@aaronconway4435]

Would love to see an interpretation of this title - what football would look like if Messi and Ronaldo NEVER existed at all - who would Fergie have signed instead, would Ronaldinho have stayed at Barca for longer, and would Barca have been as dominant, considering they still had Xavi, Iniesta etc.

[@rithwikprathap4020]

Zlatan would've flourished in Barca, if Messi didn't exist Bayern would have dominated Europe throughout the 00s and 10s Karim Benzema would've become a much bigger player than what he's currently rated as. Atletico or Juventus might have won a UCL The possibilities of a no-Messi, no-Ronaldo alternate history are endless and mind-blowing

[@hankjones7054]

Jose never gets burnt out by the unparalleled intensity of la liga and is the most respected manager in the game. Pep is mopping floors at the camp nou. (Only jk not a hater of either of them)

[@danpreston564]

I remember an issue of 442 with Ronaldinho on the cover back before Messi broke through. The quote on the cover was 'best player in the world? I’m not even the best player at Barcelona'.

[@tc98826]

@@rithwikprathap4020 zlatan's issue was Pep, not messi

[@andrew7taylor]

@@tc98826 Zlatan's issue was his playing style. He never had enough humility to contribute to Barca's pressing, which was in my opinion the primary reason why they were the best and most feared team in the world under Pep. It wasn't Pep's idea to bring him to Camp Nou, and even without Messi, he wouldn't have fit the team and would've left after 1 season.

[@kohchungwei]

It's really interesting how the order, pattern, and sequences of the winners serves to highlight the eras of dominance as football passes from period to period.

[@Michael-be2yv]

And all the more striking that despite those changes in era and style, Messi and Ronaldo transcended them all

[@lonestarr1490]

@@Michael-be2yv Yeah. But I believe we've seen the last Ballon d'Or for Messi or Ronaldo. That era seems to be over.

[@iraklis5645]

Ratio

[@sevargas1]

@@lonestarr1490 It was fun while it lasted.

[@LoightaFluwid]

Tifo forgets that without Messi or Ronaldo, Real Madrid or Barcelona wouldn’t have been winning the Champions League frequently and someone other team would’ve won the Champions League. This would mean that the 3rd place players wouldn’t have been automatically 1st when Messi and Ronaldo are taken out of context.

[@samizayn5666]

Wrong. If Messi and Ronaldo never existed then there would be other best players in the world, who would have played for Barca and Real as all best players wants to play for them.

[@Slesaint17]

@@samizayn5666 not true. Before the Pep/Messi era of Barcelona, Man United were a bigger team than Barca. The biggest two teams were always Real Madrid and Manchester United. Even clubs such as Arsenal, Bayern, Liverpool and Milan were bigger than Barcelona back then all the way until the late 00's/early 10's. Without Pep and Messi, Barcelona wouldnt be as big as they are today.

[@widerspacefanz4316]

@S Mac dude Real Madrid weren't that good during mid/late 2000s and early 2010s. They were nothing more, nothing less and that's it. Inter, Chelsea, Barca, Man U and Bayern were the strong contender at the time

[@wnd9434]

Real got beaten by liverpool 4-0 before ronaldo era. That when torres and Gerrard at their peak

[@jakearrow8047]

Barcelona could still win the team was overpowered in their prime

[@zanies6288]

Scoring 50 goals in a year would've become an extraordinary, once in a lifetime achievement, and Lewandowski would be appreciated more.

[@mightytitan1719]

Tapins shouldn't be appreciated

[@EMETRL]

to say he isn't appreciated because messi also scores a ridiculous number of goals completely undermines the real reasons messi receives so much praise. He isn't the best goalscorer, never has been, and that's never going to be what people remember him for. No other player will ever be a more complete attacker and playmaker than messi. Without messi's (and ronaldo's for the matter) existence, sure lewandowski would get more attention but we would be ignorant to what's possible in the sport.

[@V_tamburino]

@@mightytitan1719 goal=goal

[@mightytitan1719]

@@EMETRL why he isnt greatest goalscorer he literally has record of 91 goals in calendar year even clubs has less than that amount of goals than that but I love messi because of geniusness not for his scoring abilities

[@searic3203]

@@V_tamburino Sure goal = goal, but you can't compare them to world class goals that players like Messi score, not even talking about the teans he's scoring against

[@TopeA8]

It's also interesting to consider the effect that Messi and Ronaldo have directly on the players. Arguably Messi would have been a little bit worse without Ronaldo, and Ronaldo would have been a little worse without Messi. While fans like to divide the two, the funny thing is Ronaldo benefitted from Messi and vice versa. They propelled each other to SUSTAIN their high standards. So the question is did they affect the performances of Suarez, Neymar, Iniesta, Xavi, Modric etc. for the better? Perhaps even for the worse. Perhaps they overshadowed them entirely, and it is not just a matter of removing their names from a short list, perhaps players like Suarez, Neymar etc. would have been even better overall. We know for example that Benzema sacrificed himself for Ronaldo. Benzema is a much much much much better player than most fans realise.

[@thendoronnyramashia749]

True. Just like how Ronaldo overshadowed Rooney at Man Utd then we got to see how good he really is after CR7 departed.

[@fakhfakhanis3975]

Messi is more of a team player who was creating chances for the others. Ronaldo was focused on scoring especially in the last 5-6 years where his envolvement in the play was drastically decreasing.

[@tonystank5662]

Oh yeah, Benzema. Kicked out the most star studded team on the planet alongside Modric. Shows how right you're

[@inkgun3993]

Absolutely agree reg Benzema

[@Lipun708]

@Caden Paulo Dybala and Nani have said the same things about CR7

[@mattgerritsen749]

I still think it's a travesty how Wesley Sneijder wasn't that close in the 2010 ballon D'Or, he was the man that made Intermilan tick the year they won the treble

[@jonathan13co]

You have a point, and he is indeed a dutch and inter legend, but he doesn't hold a candle to prime messi, ronaldo, iniesta and xavi, not even close. Those 4 players are historic legends at their prime. Sadly with how the ballor d'or works, it doesn't matter how good of a season he had, he simply wasn't the best.

[@pp-vf8ls]

@@jonathan13co but he beat that Barcelona and almost beat Spain (if Robben arent that stupid enough to fall down when Puyol deliberately holding his leg)

[@fitzgerald8728]

That is true and he was instrumental when Netherlands went into the World cup final and he won a treble with inter

[@fitzgerald8728]

@@jonathan13co The man said 2010 specifically only Xavi and Iniesta should have been included with Sneijder in the shortlist for their World cup winning feats with Spain but come on he won a treble and went to a world cup final he surely achieved way more than Ronaldo and Messi that year.

[@leoguarknight1588]

He also scored more goals than Xavi, Iniesta and Messi in that WC, 5 goals

[@rithwikprathap4020]

- Zlatan would've flourished in Barca, if Messi didn't exist - Bayern would have dominated Europe throughout the 00s and 10s - Karim Benzema would've become a much bigger player than what he's currently rated as. - Atletico or Juventus might have won a UCL The possibilities of a no-Messi, no-Ronaldo alternate history are endless and mind-blowing

[@jatinsinghyadav5941]

Bayern would become worse

[@47_10]

@@jatinsinghyadav5941 Literally no logic in that statement.

[@pashkodreshaj2558]

Barca would’ve still dominated the 2008-2013 era, they had an insane array of talents, Messi was sure the best there but they had at least 4 other players that come once a lifetime, and if you add Ibra there who is to say that he wouldn’t had done at least 75% as good as Messi did, I mean you don’t need 60goals a season to win trophies, you need only enough to win games and Ibra has the ability to score with everything in any situation Bayern sure it probably would’ve done better than they did, Madrid would’ve probably done better without Ronaldo against Barca, as he is a horrible presser and it always bothered me how little he put in to the team effort, bcs again you don’t need 60goals a season to win games, you need enough to win one game at a time but the rest is defense which Ronaldo doesn’t do and when you are facing a Barca that has the ball 70% of the time you NEED a more defensive player and a good presser instead of a Ronaldo United wouldn’t have done as well in thier Ronaldo era, thats where Chelsea would probably dominate, although I’m saying probably bcs United would’ve looked for other players if they didn’t have Ronaldo We must add in that Atletico would’ve also done way better than it did, as they did not reach those finals on luck they were tactically perfect and are insanely well prepared Physically and it almost always came to Ronaldo or Messi ruining their game with solo efforts and same goes for Juve of a few years ago even though I’m a Milan fan and it hurts to say so fair is fair 😂 But there is so much to factor here, they revolutionized how fans see football, young fans nowadays are not impressed with a player if they don’t score 40+ goals a season which before Messi and Ronaldo era was an insane feat even for a Striker with the sole purpose of pushing the ball in So who knows😂

[@mowgli_y7772]

saying that Benzema would've become a much bigger player is the biggest myth I ve ever seen . Benzema has improved drastically his finishing in the last years go back and watch how much he was missing at the time. He always was a great player but he improved a lot in the last years physically and finishing wise. Ronaldo is the player that has assisted Benzema the most btw

[@KingEzekio]

@@mowgli_y7772 look at Benzema at Lyon he only plays at a high level when he’s the main man on the team

[@fishyfish6510]

Torres before his knee injury was truly elite. He had the pace, the physicality, the technical abilities and he was a big game player

[@usxnews1834]

I was thinking about this the other day in relation to Rooney's decline (metatarsal injury). Both players suffered the sharpest drop in 'elite' status around that period, although Torres maybe fell off harder while Rooney still remained a useful (if clumsy) goalscorer and utility attacker.

[@dreamchaser7317]

Let’s be honest, without Messi and Ronaldo Neymar would have been the best player on several occasions. With Iniesta and Xavi on his team they would’ve fed him a lot of assist and He would not leave Barcelona because he will be the main man. From 2014- 2018 or 19 he would’ve dominated. He was insane in his prime, He’s still great Personally I think he doesn’t really aim at winning the ballon d’or because he knows he stands less chance of winning against Ronaldo and Messi who are always favorites. I believe he would have had more and he would have been serious about winning it Also Hazard, Sanchez, Suarez, Lewandowski, Aguero, Griezmann, Salah and Coutinho. They would’ve been in a race to win it too Damn

[@subhanzulfiqar5768]

Factos

[@erictapia1772]

Zlatan would have won the ballon d oro

[@dreamchaser7317]

@@erictapia1772 I respect your point but I don’t agree with you, Zlatan scored a lot of goals but when it comes to the big stage he was mostly missing. Zlatan and PSG were missing in Champions League during Neymar’s prime. Also Sweden hardly proved anything on the international stage, all these count as well If you compare Zlatan’s national team and champions League performance to Neymar’s National team and Champions League performance Neymar was ahead of him from 2015 - 2018. Barca won a treble in 2015. Neymar was joint top scorer in that champions league tournament with Ronaldo and Messi. Zlatan only won Ligue 1. Neymar gave a spectacular performance from Quarter finals till Finals he destroyed PSG, Bayern and Juventus. 2016 the following year Neymar won Olympic gold for his country and Copa del Rey which would’ve played a big role if there was no Messi or Ronaldo to compete with Zlatan only won Ligue 1 through out Neymar’s prime, which is not enough to win the Balon d’or I’m not comparing them, Ibrahimovic is a legend and deserves at least one Balon d’or. But the truth is Neymar would’ve won more

[@erictapia1772]

It’s a world where messi never played so he would have never took Neymar under his wing plus Neymar wouldn’t have signed to Barcelona so who knows how good that 2015 would have been

[@erictapia1772]

Xavi and iniesta wouldn’t have got all those assist without messi either

[@mastuzi]

hmm. Good video. However, we need to look deeper into this.. If they never existed, this would impact so so many factors. -Most champions league winners would be different. -Removing roughly 400 G/A over a decade in UCL alone would shuffle things. -There would be no replacements delivering the same G/A -The hierarchy of the European leagues are likely to be different as well so many factors to consider, political, social and even economical factors. this video would likely be a 3 part documentary if we truly scratch the surface.

[@ThereAndBenAgain]

The fact Sneijder didn't get in the top 3 in 2010 despite being the key player in a treble and taking his nation to the World Cup final shows how bad the Ballon D'or is. Should be scrapped

[@vb2388]

Wesley Sneijder in 2010 : ♦️Sneijder won UCL in 2010. But UEFA Best Player award : 🇦🇷Diego Milito ♦️Sneijder won Serie A in 2010. But Serie A Best Player award : 🇦🇷Diego Milito ♦️ Sneijder won Club World Cup in 2010. But Club World Cup Best Player : 🇨🇲 Samuel Eto'o ♦️Sneijder was World Cup finalist in 2010. But World Cup Best Player award : 🇺🇾 Diego Forlan ♦️Sneijder's league stats in 2010:- 30 games played 00 open play goals Even Sneijder wasn't the best player of his club that season. UEFA best club player Award winner, Diego Milito 🇦🇷 was just sensational.

[@joshzulu8444]

@@vb2388 He was named the UEFA midfielder of the year, which just serves as a testament to his consistency and effectiveness during the best part of a successful campaign where his individual performance aided the team to a treble. Sneijder reprised his world-beating form for the Netherlands in the World Cup. Sneijder scored five goals and received four Man of the Match awards. He was easily the best midfielder in the world in 2010. The fact that neither Diego Milito nor Sneijder, did not get top 3 in the ballon d'or is nuts. Barcelona had only won the La Liga in 2010, so even in terms of silverware Sneijder had won more than any of the Barcelona players, if individual performance alone doesn't suffice you to a top three spot. "Even Sneijder wasn't the best player of his club that season." Perhaps, but it is not just about club performance. Modric and R9 have both won the ballon d'or based on world cup performances alone...

[@zainkhalid9704]

@@vb2388 like your logic inesta had poor season in 2012 messi scored 91 goals He got that because of prestige In 2010 xavi was more important and it was a team performance

[@vb2388]

@@joshzulu8444 so for you the Team Accomplishments are more important than Individual Brilliance? I don’t mind…by your logic.. 2008 - CR7 2009 - Messi 2010 - Iniesta/Sneijder 2011 - Messi 2012 - Iniesta 2013 - Ribery 2014 - Neuer 2015 - Messi 2016 - CR7 2017 - CR7 2018 - Modric 2019 - Van Dijk 2020 - Lewandowski 2021 - Messi

[@samizayn5666]

Sneijder only had team achievements. Individually Messi and Ronaldo were still better.

[@crasher1in]

If Messi and Ronaldo never existed Twitter would be a better place😭

[@hendrik8938]

i would prefer k-pop never existed, twitter would be a better place. LOL

[@whoareyou3781]

@@hendrik8938 and bts

[@EDM_Ashir_bayernBMW_adidas]

I would prefer tiktok never existed

[@trishennaidoo1309]

Rooney in 2008 for utd he had almost as good of a season as CR7

[@paulyonas5603]

Lol nope rooney is not even in top 15 ballon d'or list that season

[@SamisAga1]

@@paulyonas5603 Usually after top 5 they just rank people due to popularity.

[@romitparikh3602]

nope, CR7 was the premier league player of the year, premier league top scorer, european golden boot winner, champions league top scorer, uefa player of the year, ballon dor winner, puskas winner, premier league champion, champions league winner (scored the only goal by united in the finals). Rooney is a great player and has had amazing seasons but in 2008 Ronaldo was in a league of his own.

[@ytgc-royalewarex5190]

Great Trio between Rooney, Tevez and CR7

[@bearthenomad1770]

Knowing this actually makes me rate these playsers much more highly. IF they didnt have he bad luck of being born to play at the same time as Messi and Ronaldo, all these folks would of won the award. That's wild.

[@moriarty5863]

Just shows how dominant these two legends are

[@tomnufc1]

And if my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle

[@nabilk2455]

The disrespect to Wesley Sneijder is incredible Should've won the Ballon d'Or in 2010

[@ShacklefordR]

I think Sneijder being snubbed was about the celebrity of CR7 and Messi more than anything else… even if 2010 Dutch team winning the WC may not have made any difference at the end of the day

[@______yawn6419]

....ribery

[@adel9557]

@@ShacklefordR well sneijder not only went to the final of the wc but also won the triplete with inter 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@manueltoledo1493]

And what about Xavi?. He was the main playmaker for Barcelona´s "6 title in one season" team, while being the main playmaker for Spain Eurocup-World Cup-Eurocup in a row.. He and Iniesta were way better than Wesley

[@adel9557]

@@manueltoledo1493 i dont think that xavi won 6 trophie in 2010 🤷🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

[@nupreview]

1. Fernando Torres - 2008 2. Xavi - 2009 3. 2010 - Andres Iniesta 4. 2011 - Xavi 5. 2012 - Andres Iniesta 6. 2013 - Franck Ribery 7. 2014 - Manuel Neuer 8. 2015 - Neymar 9. 2016 - Antoine Griezmann 10. 2017 - Neymar 11. 2018 - Luka Modric 12. 2019 - Virgil van Dijk 13. 2021 - Robert Lewandowski 14. 2022 - Robert Lewandowski

[@Leonessi10]

2016 would've been suarez imo.

[@svyatozar7692]

2014 should’ve been Robben

[@Leonessi10]

@@B2leave Not really talking about how many votes they received, just saying that Luis suarez was unplayable in 2016 and deserved a big shout for the ballond'or that year.

[@Leonessi10]

@@B2leave well yeah imo

[@asianwarrior2193]

even with Messi and Ronaldo, Suarez not winning it in 2016 is such a robbery, had 59 goals (most), and 23 assists and won the golden boot, and he won the league and carried Barcelona to the QF of the champions league that season cuz every other player looked like they weren't even trying

[@Sintsoij]

I think Sneijder also deserves a honorable mention winning the treble and reach the world cup final in 2010.

[@kinofchaos9085]

Maybe a video of of how Henry failed to win one ballon dor from 2001 to 2006 where over the half decade he was undisputably the best. I think along with Xavi and Iniesta he is the best player to never win the bdor while in his case he actually deserved to win it ahead nedved,shevchenko,cannavaro etc...

[@AmbitiousAlgerian]

absolutely ! that's what I was thinking 2006 BO was his to take, with him taking Arsenal to UCL final and France to world cup final with 3 goals with one of them eliminating Brazil in that 1-0 quarter final, also 2003 wouldve been well deserved

[@kinofchaos9085]

@@AmbitiousAlgerian additionally he won the freekick from which zidane equalized against spain,he also won the penalty against portugal from which zidane scored the winner and he created the chance via a through ball for malouda who was fouled for the the penalty zidane panenked for the opener against italy in the final.There was no one player who was good both at club and in the wc like henry was.Cannavaro and Zizou had average campaigns with their clubs

[@AAMIRKHAN-yt1el]

It just remind me of THE ABSOLUTE LEVELS that these 2 great players have shown us for the past decade. While comparing them we forget what a job they have been doing, that level, that consistence, those trophies, those awards, those magical nights, that el Clasico rivalry. They might be slowing down now, but it will be truly an end of an era for football and for all the fans of the game when they hang up their boots.

[@Legnid]

2010 Sneijder was part of treble winning inter milan n reached the final of 2010 wc. Also was given the task to man mark messi against barca

[@Cpt_Katsuragi]

I'm still baffled at how Lewandowski was robbed of the award.

[@imputinandihaveasmallpeepe9165]

What worse is covid robbed him of one to

[@vb2388]

The only thing Lewandowski had over Messi was goals..in every other attribute Messi was better…not to mention he gave a World Class Performance in CA 2021..

[@vb2388]

@@kashyapshah9009 what 6 titles?? 😂😂 pray tell.. In 2021, the only memorable trophy that Lewandowski won was Bundesliga which Bayern have been winning for 8 years in a row 😂 Winning CDR with that pathetic Barça team and winning Copa for Argentina after 20+ years is a far better achievement..

[@barcak1912]

@@kashyapshah9009 the “6 tiTLeS” was the sextuple from the previous season u m*ron

[@Cpt_Katsuragi]

@@vb2388, a Copa América tournament that should have been played. Euros are every 4 years, but CA has recently been played 3 times since 2016. It's not an achievement for Messi to have have won that, he just avoided the shame of not being able to.

[@alvinsaat2943]

Torres looks horrifying lmao

[@christianopulinaldo8319]

Only positives : Social media would be less toxic and some underrated players would get more recognition

[@nehphangmawlong4112]

It would be boring

[@Teaandephemery]

Social media wouldn't be less toxic. They're all proxy wars anyway; football fans would have just found other flags around which to rally.

[@acacia8261]

Social media could never be not toxic

[@jonniebamber441]

and the Grammy goes to..... Joe Devine No seriously, I'll be singing that for the whole day, thanks!

[@QUITUTINCIPICTURES]

I went to the trouble of re-doing the 2007-08 season without CR7 and Messi, removed all their goal contributions and based on how the seasons turned out I created some hipoteticals mixed with facts to predict how would champions league group stage and round elimination would end up. 1. Without CR7 goal contributions, Man United would finish 3rd and drop to Europa league, their #1 spot would go to Roma. 2. Barcelona without Messi's goals contributions would still qualify but as second in the group behind Lyon 3. Barcelona would've still make it to the finals by facing in elimination Roma => Real => Lyon and would be at the final against Chelsea. 4. Given Chelsea was the runner-up the previous season and came back even stronger and a Barcelona without Messi and a out-of-form Ronaldinho, I think it's safe to say that Chelsea would've won UCL. 5. Since Chelsea ended up runner up in the Premier League, 2 points behind Man United, if we exclude all Ronaldo goals and assists, Man United wouldn't have won the league, Arsenal would end up with 87 points and Chelsea still with 85 points which means Arsenal would be champions, the top scorers would've been Adebayor and Torres and since Arsenal would've won the league then the player of the season would've been Adebayor. 6. Barcelona didn't even win La Liga that season, so no need for hypotethicals. 7. The actual nominees for the balon d'or were Ronaldo, Messi & Torres, since we are counting out the aliens we'd have to replace them with a guy from Chelsea and one from Barcelona. For Chelsea would've to be Drogba or Lampard or even both, Drogba would end as UCL top scorer plus 15 goals alll comps, Lampard would have finished the season with his 20 goals. Ronaldinho with 5 assists and 1 goal would be Barças best UCL player and in La Liga 8 goals, however those are pretty weak numbers for Ronaldinho who was arguably way out of form that season so we'd put as the final 3 ballon d'or contenders Lampard, Drogba and Torres, Lampard as the winner.

[@bahaqadi99]

I expected the video to go a bit deeper than just looking at who came in 3rd behind them, if they didn't exist there would've been a few players who would've filled their place either at Barca and Madrid or just globally, for example: Zlatan would've been probably the biggest star in football for a while and would've gotten more media attention plus most likely being the star in Barcelona making him win probably 3 ballon d'ors and would've had people ranking him among the greatest in football history because of his dominance over the scene for a while, same goes for players like Aguero, Benzima and Robben. shame that the most analytical football page resorted to just naming the runners up behind Messi and Ronaldo instead of at least trying to give it a deeper look

[@francescomarra5146]

Thanks, same here! Disappointed with the video

[@madridista6862]

Yep! You can do so much more with this concept. Hope some other channel one day dives deep into this subject.

[@TheMATEO446]

this video was mediocre af

[@justinsm]

We have a lot strong contenders here.

[@LilmeMusic]

To think that Suarez would still have no ballon d'ors even with Messi and Ronaldo gone is insane, I cant-

[@tittopaulson5200]

Suarez the only one to win 2 golden boots in Messi ronaldo era

[@arifadnan3224]

If he wasn't demonized for his shenanigans, he was the best player in the world in the 2013-14 season and probably would have won ballon d'or.

[@mukul863]

@@tittopaulson5200 Lewandowski will soon become 2nd

[@paulyonas5603]

@@arifadnan3224 cr7 by far the best player in 2013/14 season that is the season cr7 scored record 17 goals and 5 assists in 11 games in ucl on top of that he scored 31 goals and 12 assists in 29 games in league

[@tittopaulson5200]

@@mukul863 Messi Ronaldo is almost Over. Suarez did it in prime ronaldo Messi era

[@iimrohtak8363]

After some pretty nice videos, this is the first time I’m disappointed with a Tifo video. The alternate without Messi or CR7 has so many possibilities to probe into, than just essentially listing runners-up in a Ballon d’Or voting list.

[@kingkai5115]

Even though we love Messi and Ronaldo, It's nice to see some other absolute legends and current world class players in the spotlight in your video today. Thanks Tifo! Fernando Torres, Xavi, Iniesta, Ribery, Neuer, Neymar, Greizmann, Van Dijk, Lewandowski, Robben, Suarez, Zlatan, Mane, Salah, Bezema etc - all remarkable players I'm grateful to have seen.

[@dan-qn6sz]

Tifo should actually consider making a music channel. Their music videos are the best ive ever seen

[@Jaybee-bc3cs]

Think of the players that "lived in their shadow" - like di Maria and higuain for Messi, and Nani & Quaresma for Ronaldo. Maybe without them they would be remembered much more than 'a worse Messi' or 'a worse cr7'

[@WillMill03]

That Griezmann scenario… he was an immense player in 2016. The “supposed hero” for both parties.

[@marcellomendicino2707]

griezmann 2016 and 2018.... what a player

[@sordnassela]

I still think that 2010's Ballon d'Or belongs to Wesley Sneijder: won the Treble with Inter and was runner-up at the World Cup with the Netherlands

[@jmcm152]

If he would have won world cup it would be his for sure

[@juanestebankruhsanmguel1960]

He wasn't the best player of any Tournament Serie A Milito UCL Milkto World Cup Forlan La Liga Messi It's an individual award.

[@arroe8386]

@@juanestebankruhsanmguel1960 Well it's the same people that voted for Jorginho last year

[@offtopic9632]

Insane that De Bruyne was never higher than 8th. Even more insane is the fact that Pique is mentioned on that topic. I dont see any season where he should have anything to do with the balon d'or.

[@nodonkey4125]

Absolutely agree on the first point but although pique has looked like a scrambled egg for the current barca side he was great for those spanish and earlier barcelona sides. never underestimate how good a defender has to be to never get a highlight real

[@Slesaint17]

@@nodonkey4125 Pique was always a solid, good centre back, but he has never been close to as good as Puyol, Ramos, Terry, Ferdinand, Maldini, Nesta.

[@arroe8386]

@@nodonkey4125 That's also because he played alongside Puyol who could cover his weaknesses

[@offtopic9632]

@@nodonkey4125 I have to disagree. As was already mentioned Players like Puyol or even Mascherano covered his weaknesses. For his height he is pretty bad in aerial, he never was quick and alot of times when Barca was way in front and the win was secured he just abandoned his position just to stay in the box of the other team to score. Sometimes that lead to goals against Barca and this shows a lack of skill in leadership. I watched alot of Barcelona games. The only thing he is good at is passing but playing at Barca this is expected... Pique (just like Valdes) was just lucky to be in the right team

[@SujoyChakravarthi93]

Normally when Lord Devine opens his mouth it is a delight of varying shades - the gaping visage of Joe for the end promo will give me nightmares for a few Gameweeks to come. Top content as always - subbing to The Athletic straight away 🙌🏼

[@Kalliniho]

1:35 I use exactly that sentence about Zlatan. Those who favor strikers in the voting would vote for him if it weren't for these 2 legends.

[@Lazuardinho]

I agree to all all of them except for 2010. I still believe snijder should win the award.

[@adamahmed3367]

do part two but how their teams be and take out all their goals and assists and lets see what would their clubs win

[@odora_allan]

They are just soo outstanding

[@timothygudz8756]

Curious how Messi and Ronaldo’s presence on the pitch has change the strategic aspect. (That’s what I thought this video initially was about). That is, how has defending changed since their reign? How has the modfielders role changed since their careers?

[@drex5160]

It would have meant no more Pessi and Penaldo comments 🙏

[@nicknicotine21]

imagine someone so good at something, you began to imagine if these people never existed.

[@paddy1198]

I for one am quite happy to see them go, the orthodoxy needs reshuffling as the past 3 years of ballon d’ors hasn’t reflected the changes in how the wider game is played.

[@EugenesBackpack]

I've always considered this topic as idiotic. If messi hadn't existed barcelona wouldn't have been as good meaning half these guys wouldn't even have joined the conversation. It's all butterflies

[@jonathan13co]

That's not true. They benefited each other. Spanish dominance throughout 2008-2012 is the best proof I can give you without sitting you down and showing you matches of xavi/iniesta. I'll tell you what' s idiotic here - stripping 2 of the best midfielders of all time of their talent because of your messi fanboyism. Messi wouldn't have been where he is today without them and vice versa.

[@EugenesBackpack]

@@jonathan13co I'm not a messi fan boy, you just sound emotional and completely disregarded the main argument.

[@jonathan13co]

@@EugenesBackpack I didn't disregard a thing, your reading comprehension is just very poor. Your perspective is skewed - you're saying barcelona wouldn't have been as good without messi, but the exact same thing can be said about xavi/iniesta/neymar. These players were capable of showing their class and leading barcelona with messi being absent, so again you saying "they wouldn't even be in this conversation" is straight up wrong.

[@EugenesBackpack]

@@jonathan13co i never said who wouldn't be in the conversation. My whole argument is based on the butterfly effect, its completely useless to talk about hypotheticals, sure it can be fun but that doesn't prevent it from beign idiotic

[@hectorcadenas9279]

Iniesta got robbed on 2010 tho

[@vb2388]

Lionel Messi in 2010 : ⚽ Most Goals (60) 🅰️ 2nd Most Assists (26) 🌟 Most Goals+Assists (86) 🇪🇦 Spanish La Liga ⚔️ Spanish Supercup ◉ Ballon d'Or ◉ Golden Boot ◉ UCL Top scorer ◉ Trofeo EFE award ◉ La Liga Best player ◉ La Liga Best forward ◉ La Liga Pichichi trophy ◉ La Liga Best foreign player ◉ EL País Best European player ◉ Argentine player of the year ◉ FourFourTwo Best player Robbed it seems..

[@christianopulinaldo8319]

Sneijder > both in that year

[@vb2388]

@@christianopulinaldo8319 Wesley Sneijder in 2010 : ♦️Sneijder won UCL in 2010. But UEFA Best Player award : 🇦🇷Diego Milito ♦️Sneijder won Serie A in 2010. But Serie A Best Player award : 🇦🇷Diego Milito ♦️ Sneijder won Club World Cup in 2010. But Club World Cup Best Player : 🇨🇲 Samuel Eto'o ♦️Sneijder was World Cup finalist in 2010. But World Cup Best Player award : 🇺🇾 Diego Forlan ♦️Sneijder's league stats in 2010:- 30 games played 00 open play goals Even Sneijder wasn't the best player of his club that season. UEFA best club player Award winner, Diego Milito 🇦🇷 was just sensational. Sneijder deserving the 2010 Ballon d’Or is a joke..

[@christianopulinaldo8319]

@@vb2388 all those awards are forward biased I bet he assisted all those milito and eto goals. He won every midfilkder related award that year but still 2 mids finished above him. He even got fifa silver ball. He is a midfielder and you are judging him by goals

[@zanies6288]

@@vb2388 Modric won the Ballon D'or having similar stats as of Iniesta in 2010 while Iniesta actually won the world Cup that year. And Iniesta is midfielder unlike Messi who was a CF/RW, so comparing them solely on g/a is a sad excuse.

[@RynoZ]

@Tifo Put 'Part 1' at the end of the title because it's there's so much more to cover!

[@DC-hy2rg]

Loved seeing Modric depicted as "the third guy" in a Roman Triumvirate.

[@Teaandephemery]

Just the tiniest bit of clickbait in the title. I was expecting a broader discussion of the fates of Barca and Real, and maybe a different understanding of statistics without these two freaks. And Lewandowski actually getting his due.

[@certinho76]

If this was reality I might not have ever started watching football as a Yank, but idk. I would hate for this to be reality. This era of football has been so beautiful with the two of them!

[@jamesnewstead7099]

They are so good we have to imagine the world without them

[@NuclearAtoms]

I had more of a fun time watching the add in the end than the actual video 😂👏

[@donaldmakalintal3975]

I’m expecting a video about what would be our expectations without these 40 goals per season duo. I thought 25 goals for a season there was already a career.

[@Cr33DEXOTIC]

2010 should’ve been Wesley Sneijder, no debate. Won the triple with Inter and led the Dutch team to the World Cup final.

[@adelinogoncalves1180]

In 2010 the criteria was based only on the individual performance troughtout the year, and messi was the one with better stats, that s why he won deservely, it was only after 2016 that it became about team sucess and overall performance on the biggest stage

[@royru9081]

Just because they wouldn’t have not exist means the players below them would be considered at a higher place. There’s so many other factors. For example, seeing Messi and Ronaldo being the best might’ve motivated the other players to work harder. Being in the same team as Messi/Ronaldo might’ve helped or not helped a player become better/worse. Many players looked up to the two and if they didn’t exist, some may not even wanted to play football in the first place.

[@justinsm]

It could be but we still have legends before them. They play because of their passion. The player that start along or before them not look them as the only figure. Especially try to beat them in their era

[@scottmiller509]

There are so many butterfly effects to occur between 2007 and 2018 without Messi and Ronaldo - different league winners, different CL winners, and so forth, which then changes the entire voting result with different players elevated based on club (and country) success. It's not simply "Well, Xavi was third in 2009 so he wins it" as it highly probable Barcelona don't get anywhere near the CL win without Messi. And so forth.

[@juliantsenkov1585]

Football without them will not be the same. As if when they retire a part of football will die.

[@someguy2504]

This was utterly underwhelming. Would've been great if you played more with the butterfly effect

[@VIPeR010icoN]

Great video

[@LandryMMII]

Very good video i love it

[@mathiasfabre6507]

Great video but not considering Sneijder as a ballon d'or in 2010 is a huge mistake to me.

[@mccajake]

I thought he’d at least get an honourable mention given the season he had that year

[@Boringpenguin]

Still being robbed even if the two gaints never existed, smh

[@vb2388]

Wesley Sneijder in 2010 : ♦️Sneijder won UCL in 2010. But UEFA Best Player award : 🇦🇷Diego Milito ♦️Sneijder won Serie A in 2010. But Serie A Best Player award : 🇦🇷Diego Milito ♦️ Sneijder won Club World Cup in 2010. But Club World Cup Best Player : 🇨🇲 Samuel Eto'o ♦️Sneijder was World Cup finalist in 2010. But World Cup Best Player award : 🇺🇾 Diego Forlan ♦️Sneijder's league stats in 2010:- 30 games played 00 open play goals Even Sneijder wasn't the best player of his club that season. UEFA best club player Award winner, Diego Milito 🇦🇷 was just sensational.

[@christianopulinaldo8319]

Wesley sneijder in 2010 : (my version >> Vb 23 version) ● Serie a, Champions league, World cup runner up, copa italia, super copa italia, Fifa club world cup ●Uefa Midfielder of the year ●Champions league top assister ●Uefa team of the year ●World cup silver ball ●World cup dream team ●World cup bronze boot ●Fifpro world 11 ●Esm team of the year ●Goal 50 best player He is a midfielder so don't judge him by goals. He won all midfielder related awards that year still 2 midfielders finished above him.

[@vb2388]

@@christianopulinaldo8319 not an issue…Sneijder can be better than Xavi and iniesta in 2010…you must be an idiot if you think he was better than Messi in 2010.. Lionel Messi in 2010 : ⚽ Most Goals (60) 🅰️ 2nd Most Assists (26) 🌟 Most Goals+Assists (86) 🇪🇦 Spanish La Liga ⚔️ Spanish Supercup ◉ Ballon d'Or ◉ Golden Boot ◉ UCL Top scorer ◉ Trofeo EFE award ◉ La Liga Best player ◉ La Liga Best forward ◉ La Liga Pichichi trophy ◉ La Liga Best foreign player ◉ EL País Best European player ◉ Argentine player of the year ◉ FourFourTwo Best player

[@Belgiangooner]

Where's Eden Hazard? In his prime he was arguably the best of the rest.

[@Josh-vb6vn]

Laughable that he hasn't been mentioned anywhere 🤦🏾‍♂️ The mf even mentioned Pique ffs!💔 Eden Hazard will only be truly appreciated by the CFC fans who watched him week in week out

[@harshdeepbains8655]

His prime was pretty much 2 seasons

[@rezaarmeynaldo7372]

What if not just their presence, but also their goal & assist contributions in all those years.. It would made much bigger impact/changes to football history

[@mfundombewe5477]

What chillhop song is playing in the backround???

[@SurferWilly]

Then ZLATAN would be the best player for many years?! He was like below Messi and Ronaldo for so many years

[@vb2388]

There are World Class Dribblers, There are World Class Playmakers and There are World Class GoalScorers.. Messi is arguably the GOAT in all 3 of these attributes.. There is literally no one who can do what Messi does on the pitch…that itself is more than sufficient for Messi being the GOAT..

[@leskipbayless3280]

Exactly, the fact he’s so often compared to Ronaldo is honestly the biggest travesty in sports. He’s miles clear. He is the GOAT in all 3 of those attributes, of which all 3 are the most important one needs in a footballer.

[@fkn6741]

How big is Messi's little one?

[@christianopulinaldo8319]

He is not the Goat playmaker. There were many playmakers better than him in the previous gens

[@leskipbayless3280]

@@christianopulinaldo8319 Tell me you don’t watch Messi without telling me you don’t watch Messi.

[@vb2388]

@@christianopulinaldo8319 Xavi, Iniesta, Zico, Platini, Maradona are great shoutouts…but Messi is right up there with them.. Messi has 4 IFFHS Playmaker of the Awards (tied with Xavi as Most).. Has 320+ Assists some of which were created by numerous defense splitting passes and through balls.. Has Inhuman Vision and Passing ability to give out a pass that seemingly would’ve been impossible.. I mean I don’t even know why I am stating all of this…all of this is well known.. Messi is easily in the Top 10 Best Playmakers of all Time..In Top 5 also can be agreed upon..

[@neileraroundthegrounds]

Come for the analysis, stay for the song at the end.

[@StalkingYouMate]

Enjoyed the slightly different visuals in this video, credit to the illustrator

[@harpocrates5090]

Xavi is the best midfielder of all time

[@christianopulinaldo8319]

Wasnt even the best spanish midfielder in his team

[@kukunase1686]

Pogba miles better

[@vb2388]

Arguably the greatest Spanish Footballer of all time.. Still think Zico and Platini are better than Xavi and Iniesta..

[@christianopulinaldo8319]

@@vb2388 To be the goat , longevity is important Xavi before 28 wasnt that great Iniesta's prime was much longer than xavi's prime

[@vb2388]

@@christianopulinaldo8319 Longevity isn’t everything if it was Modrić should be considered better than Zidane.. Xavi in his prime was the Greatest Passer in Football History.. His 2008 Euro and 2010 World Cup Performances showcase his phenomenal abilities..

[@Q9Teen]

09-10 belongs to Inter imo. Eto'o, Milito, Sneijder should've been mentioned

[@juanestebankruhsanmguel1960]

World Cup>UCL

[@artamir6605]

The interesting thing is that i, 25, could not imagined a future without them just two years ago...but now they've already faded somewhat and i don't feel any different.

[@awesomeaditya7861]

Most of the players who won the trophies would not have won them without Messi and Ronaldo in their team and would have also not won the Ballon d'Or

[@arushh42]

No mention of Eden Hazard?

[@olaoluwadaramola6828]

Xavi and Iniesta wouldn’t have been on the list of Messi didn’t exist

[@christianopulinaldo8319]

Never knew that messi played for spain and "carried them" in the 2010 wc

[@Slesaint17]

Ah yes Messi the Spanish false 9

[@greataccount3670]

@@christianopulinaldo8319 ikr ha

[@Wisteria_9]

"Everlasting Prince" maybe the best way to called them. Either they were lucky or curse to be born under the same sky with those two. On one hand to be a living witness of these two man competing with each other is once in lifetime opportunity. On the other hand had they were born in different era, they could be the highest peak of modern football.

[@zetax9715]

That title sent shivers down my spine..

[@calumjunior7748]

Would of Barcelona been so dominant without Messi? I feel that Wayne Rooney was the best player in the world at some point in a world without Messi.

[@liamdias2051]

Chop up the beats kanye

[@MrReese]

That song at the end is almost better than the video :D.

[@aklunar3063]

I always thought before griezmann as the 3rd or 4th best player before he went to barca

[@michaelarmer256]

without messi do barcelona ever get rid of ronaldinho. does that allow inesta to become so good. ron went down hill a lot but without messi to compare he would have still been a top player. without ronaldo at madrid it would't have mattered that he wasn't as good as messi he was better than robben. so he would have scooped up a few awards or at least stopped other barca teammates winning.

[@liamdias2051]

I miss the old kanye

[@christianopulinaldo8319]

Old kanye can't come to the phone right now. Oh why? Cuz taylor killed him

[@DanielMorales-eu7ok]

You lads have gone insane with The Athletic marketing. Lovely to see.

[@dariusjohn3529]

Best Football Channel on KZbin

[@pmishra8044]

Thanks for naming Gerard Pique! He is one of the greatest defender to play the game. The consistency and the sheer amount of trophies he's won is absolutely mind blowing.

[@stephenpalmer9375]

And you'd have to include Ramos too

[@pmishra8044]

@@stephenpalmer9375 agreed

[@Slesaint17]

He's one of the best for sure, but he's just a level below Puyol, Ramos, Terry, Ferdinand, Maldini, Nesta (who I consider are the best CB's from the top 3 leagues of the 21st century).

[@dantespina7398]

football twitter would be less unbearable. the world will be a better place if 'penaldo' was never uttered again

[@dreadful_name2924]

We need a playlist of tifo jingles

[@alexandero50000]

Intresting vid, tho u gotta say that if the percentage of votes going to ronaldo and messi going somewhere else, the percentage of total votes might add up to someone elses tally which may be totally different than ribery, torees etc.

[@minicime8516]

Would be interesting to do this idea but consider that the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar, and Modric may not have been so high up if they didn't have Messi and Ronaldo on their sides.

[@arthurleels]

The title alone made me sad. Let's just not fight, and appreciate the fact that we lived at the same time as they did.

[@j10ant]

Won’t happen now but would be worthy of a fun video if we were to limit balon d’or wins to one per player. I remember looking a while back and there was a few fun examples where a player ends up winning one earlier but doesn’t get to win when they normally would.

[@jaycfc3909]

Torres was so lethal before his injury. Sneijder should've been in the top 3 in 2013, sucks that he wasn't. It is interesting to see who the Ballon D'or would be without Messi and Ronaldo.

[@danielkrishnamakasa]

How did Wesley snijder miss out in this?

[@vb2388]

Wesley Sneijder in 2010 : ♦️Sneijder won UCL in 2010. But UEFA Best Player award : 🇦🇷Diego Milito ♦️Sneijder won Serie A in 2010. But Serie A Best Player award : 🇦🇷Diego Milito ♦️ Sneijder won Club World Cup in 2010. But Club World Cup Best Player : 🇨🇲 Samuel Eto'o ♦️Sneijder was World Cup finalist in 2010. But World Cup Best Player award : 🇺🇾 Diego Forlan ♦️Sneijder's league stats in 2010:- 30 games played 00 open play goals Even Sneijder wasn't the best player of his club that season. UEFA best club player Award winner, Diego Milito 🇦🇷 was just sensational.

[@formulahank1250]

I think Wayne Rooney would have Ballon D'Or in 2011. Say what you will about how Xavi and Iniesta got more Ballon D'Or votes than him, but they both greatly benefitted from playing with Messi. In a vacuum, Rooney was a superior footballer to both

[@mattishidayeo]

What nonsense. You are claiming two generational legends who won three back to back international tournaments were only great because of a guy who has not won a Champions League without them, and only has one international title after multiple years of failure in that regard.

[@formulahank1250]

@@mattishidayeo Not saying they weren't great, but their legacies were helped a lot by Messi's presence at Barcelona. They were great midfielders in the same sense that Paul Scholes and Frank Lampard were great midfielders, but I'd take Rooney over Scholes or Lampard any day of the week

[@jjxlifts]

CR7 and Messi are simply goats, we may never be able to understand the amount of work and talent from these two.

[@Ghostxx]

Crazy how these guys completely changed the game

[@Matthew-bu7fg]

Lewandowski could score 500 goals this season and they'd still give the award to Messi, even in a world where Messi doesn't exist, because of a hypothetical well shaped dump he could produce

[@juanestebankruhsanmguel1960]

Yeah, because Messi is a better player. Deal with it. Lewandowski I'd a poacher and he is tecnically very imited but you can't accept that.

[@Matthew-bu7fg]

@@juanestebankruhsanmguel1960 😂😂😂 explain what you mean by "technically very limited" I am looking forward to this

[@henrygarcia7882]

What if pessi and penaldo never existed

[@christianopulinaldo8319]

You would've been hating on neymar and Lewandowski instead 😂

[@iwantgoals1566]

Would love to see a follow up vid on who the most likely candidates are besides M’Bapae and Haaland to win it in the next few years. Except the winner is based on stats for the whole year round and titles won during that year. Instead of subjective votes like it’s always been.

[@AnggaTangerang]

If they never existed, Ballon d'or will be still credible award until now.