TIKAL - greatest city of the Maya

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Here I take you with me on my first day at Tikal, in the jungles of Guatemala. Archaeology, wildlife, strange sounds, and a sunset. The overgrown remains of a stone-age civilisation.
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Lindybeige: a channel of archaeology, ancient and medieval warfare, rants, swing dance, travelogues, evolution, and whatever else occurs to me to make.
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[@thelonecabbage7834]

Sometimes I forget that Lindy is an actual archeologist, and not just a guy who really likes spears.

[@rexregum2793]

Wait he is actually an archeologist

[@ManDuderGuy]

@@rexregum2793 Lady's man, man's man, man about town.

[@GooglyEyedJoe]

@@rexregum2793 Well he has a degree in archaeology but I don't know if he'd consider himself an archeologist career wise.

[@kornelparoczai1763]

@@GooglyEyedJoe I actually didn't know that, I thought he had a degree in history or something, truly a renaissance man

[@LukeBunyip]

Don't forget, his dislike of fire arrows.

[@pleasedontmakememakeupanalias]

Getting Lindy to Guatemala was a really smart longtime investment by the guatemalan tourist board :D And a gift that keeps on giving for us viewers

[@markhill3858]

its pretty cheap .. one quetzali is about 1 cent (!) so youre super-duper rich .. and you wanna avoid banditry? dont be like Lindy .. dress in rags, the perfect defence :) well it worked for me anyways.. mind you Im a huge kinda muscular aussie probably didnt look like a soft target (no offence Lindy lol) .. but really if you look like a junkie theyll think you are one theres quite a few "lost" westerners there .. very cheap cocaine lol

[@Gstrangeman96]

Plus Lindy gets to live his teenage fantasy of being a victorian explorer trailblazing in the central american jungles.

[@markhill3858]

@@Gstrangeman96 well it was indiana jones in my case :) just HAD to chop thru some jungle to find an unexplored pyramid .. which is a lot less impressive when you realise the entire jungle appears to be 100% post holocaust urban areas for hundreds of miles in every direction, you can hardly walk thru any bush without kicking some amazing stonework outta the dirt lol

[@Farweasel]

SOMEONE ELSE IS TREATING LINDY'S WORK AS A GIFT TOO THEY SEEM TO HAVE RIPPED OFF HIS COVERAGE OF THE STEAM SHIP TURBINA (LINDY its at v=MOY1BNUqSMs )

[@markhill3858]

@@Farweasel holy shit mate enuf with the all caps

[@joshuagrahm3607]

8:20 -Lloyd truly is a British archaeologist

[@CanyonF]

don't worry he fully intends on putting it right back where he found it one day

[@jamesonlegend]

@@CanyonF Once the natives can take care if it right? ;-)

[@td370]

@@jamesonlegend this is a valid argument though

[@TheZigzagman]

@@user-be1jx7ty7n But can we really trust Greece with Greek relics?

[@David-bh7hs]

@@td370 Well, when it comes to things like IS, yeah.

[@Brave_Sir_Robin]

I had a short dream starring Lloyd awhile back: I was at some sort of Lindybeige science workshop that was in a manor, similar to Bletchley Park. Lloyd was standing on a raised marble platform in the middle of the "great room" in the manor dressed in the robes from the invisibility video. He was scolding the scientists milling about saying: "If we can afford to use robots, we _cannot_ afford more spaghetti!"

[@lindybeige]

Oh yes, I remember that. In the end we compromised with ravioli.

[@lomax343]

@@lindybeige "Ravioli, ravioli, ravioli" - Reggie Perrin

[@alisaurus4224]

And how was his scholar’s cradle?

[@ScienceDiscoverer]

@@lomax343 don't lewd the dragon loli!

[@nighthaste9763]

I'm not the only one to have seen him in a dream then. In mine he was playing Exanima and crushing the sword masters

[@michaelliguori856]

"I suggested they probably built the bottom bit first" top tier reply

[@SirDuckyOfAlfheimr]

More a bottom tier reply, wouldn't you say?

[@michaelliguori856]

@@SirDuckyOfAlfheimr Well you got me there good sir.

[@sagagis]

Captain Obvious :D

[@longboweod]

It's a joke that works on multiple levels.

[@michaelliguori856]

@@longboweod lol

[@joe_5768]

Lindyana Jones and the Temple of Beige! Despite all its technical imperfections, this is a top notch documentary. Forget the BBC or Discovery Channel. I'd love to see more!

[@paxonite-7bd5]

Mmm.... Beige.

[@count69]

"Delores there's a man standing in the middle dressed as Indiana Jones slow clapping"

[@AverageAlien]

Ah the nostalgia, I remember binging Lindys older videos on his central america trip

[@azh698]

I even used one as reference on an assignment on ancient climate change in Mesoamerica back 2018!

[@jakethompson9260]

I love these type of videos. I could watch this for years.

[@Adumb_]

Oh wow, people find that nostalgic? To me those are really recent videos. I get nostalgic for Lindy videos that are 10 years old by now.

[@darioguerra3065]

Older? These are his newer vids, older is like the 2011 videos in Lycia

[@spaman7716]

Wait arent you that guy I got into with in the comments of some other video about some political stuff a while back? Lol long time no see

[@pacolet2994]

Acoustics are strange, and often overlooked by most builders nowadays. At my friend's house you never hear his closest neighbors, but you can hear what's happening at the other end of the next street crystal clear. They're not even loud, it's just a weird, unintentional, acoustic effect caused by the terrain and the layout of the houses.

[@catastrophecorvid8309]

"Yeah I can listen to Lloyd talk about Mayans for 40 minutes" Said I, just now, excitedly.

[@attalan8732]

A very interesting fact that surprised me to find out about the Mayans is that they deforested the entire Yucatan peninsula. Yes. The entire Yucatan peninsula. Despite the fact that fantasy often depicts Mayan-inspired civilisations as living deep in the jungle in mossy stone cities surrounded by dense jungle and vines, two minutes of serious thought (and hindsight) should be enough to realise that a city deep in the jungle is not particularly practical or safe. How would you farm? How would you quarry for rock? And how inconvenient it would be to hunt and travel and expand. So they did the logical thing and cut all the trees down and replaced it with farmland, grassland, and cityland. Given that the Mayans fell over 1000 years ago, it shouldn't surprise anyone that the jungle grew back in that time. But the point is there wasn't a jungle there during Mayan times.

[@MajoraZ]

Ehhhhhh, the general point that a huge amount of what's now jungle now wasn't back in the day is true, since the larger Maya cities had extensive suburban sprawls, covering dozens or even hundreds of square kilometers around the urban cores of the city centers themselves. But the suburbs weren't entirely clear of tree cover even if parts of them were (some areas had managed forest groves for agroforestry; and some would be kept simply for shade), and I think you're vastly underestimating just how big the Yucatan Peninsula is: We're talking 180,000 square kilometers of space, more then the state of California, and i'm not sure that figure includes Guatemala, Honduras, Chiapas, the Isthmus of Tehuantepec, etc, which were also part of Maya civilization, so it could be almost double that. Don't get me wrong, Mesoamerica civilizations like the Maya were way more complex and population dense then most people realize (Mesoamerica had 20m to 30m people by most estimates at the time of Spanish contact, comparably population dense to many parts of Europe at the time), but like even today in the modern industrial world that is an insane amount of deforestation.

[@markhill3858]

what do you mean they fell over 1000 years ago :) they fought the spanish pretty hard in the 1500s didnt they? and there are still millions of em arent there? Induvidual cities fell all the time, for many reasons, they wernt usually allied .. but as a whole? I dont think they EVER actually fell

[@Oxtocoatl13]

@@markhill3858 he's probably referring to the classical collapse, which did lead to a lot of thw cities being abandoned, though afaik it affected the Lowlands more than Yucatan.

[@markhill3858]

@@Oxtocoatl13 but didnt affect the Kiche at all :) very much localised, maya speaking peoples cover a lotta ground dont they .. I think they are in at least 4 modern states (?) or something

[@Oxtocoatl13]

@@markhill3858 absolutely, it wasn't nearly as total as people imagine. Some famous cities were only built after the collapse, such as Chichen Itza. And by the time the Spanish came, the Maya had largely recovered and established regional kingdoms that fought the Europeans off admirably for a long time.

[@MajoraZ]

I work on content on Mesoamerica with other history and archeology youtube channels, so I wanna give some extra info, even though Lindy already did a pretty solid job!. The biggest thing I wanna address is the "Stone age" label, but I wanna focus on Tikal itself first. Lindy said that most of the city today is covered by jungle, but it needs to be stressed just how true that is. When you look at Mesoamerican sites today, you're usually seeing just a few standing, exposed structures in the site's central urban core (which had temples, palaces, ball courts, laid out around plazas to facilitate communal flow/viewing and ritualistic alignments). But how sites look today is highly misleading. Firstly, as erosion has removed the rich paint, frescos, reliefs, and other accents on buildings, but also because a significant amount of the structures in the core are often still buried or destroyed. If you compare simplified or tourist maps of Tikal's core to detailed archeological ones, you can see hundreds of additional structures in the latter. But we're still just talking about the urban core. Around the fancy stone temples and palaces and plazas, you had landscaped suburbs radiating out with commoner residences alongside agricultural land. With large Maya cities in particular, huge amounts of what's now jungle around sites like Tikal used to be massive suburban sprawls, with thousands to tens of thousands of structures covering dozens to even hundreds of square kilometers, amongst cleared land or managed forest groves. As found via LIDAR scans in the past few years, Tikal's suburbs are so expansive (12,000 structures within a 76 square kilometer area, which as I'm explaining arguably isn't even the full expanse) that they literally filled the space between it and other nearby cities like Zotz and Uaxactun, forming megalopoli/megacities, with a significant amount of infrastructure inside the suburban sprawl, from additional reservoirs, canals and water management systems, palisades, mini-cores with additional temples and palaces, etc. El Mirador and it's surrounding cities, which Lindy mentioned, was similar, though much further away. As you can imagine, this can make determining where a given Mesoamerican city ends, or a adjacent one or surrounding towns/villages (Lindy states there were around 60 Maya city-states, but there are over 4000 maya sites known, even with the issue I am describing. Lindy must be excluding small to medium sized sites or specific time periods. Keep in mind the Maya are simply one Mesoamerican civilization, too) begins sort of difficult. But the combined Tikal Megalopolis certainly had a population in the hundreds of thousands, at least (I'll refrain from giving specific estimates due to even the recent LIDAR studies and reporting having some discrepancies). Also, I was quite pleased that Lindy brought up the city's water management systems. Complex waterworks was actually pretty common for large Mesoamerican cities. In Tikal's case, there were a series of massive reservoirs in the urban core. Lindy mentions how the main "Palace reservoir " could hold water for ten thousand people for multiple years alone, but it was hooked up to other large reservoirs nearby, with dams and channels which allowed them to flow into one another if needed to prevent flooding, and as noted in the video, structures and plazas in the surrounding infrastructure having drains to similarly redirect rainwater or water from floods into the reservoir network. Some of these reservoirs even had advanced filtration systems, and some of the connections between them even had switching stations to choose how the water flowed. Some households also had personal rainwater reservoirs or wells. As I noted, even the sprawl around the city center had strategically reservoir and canals placed across huge expanses the surrounding suburbs, and. Grids of channel systems along Tikal's (and I presume the suburb's) farming fields located in nearby wetlands re-directed water flow to move it from frequently flooded areas into less wet areas, as well as hooked up to an overall drainage system in case of floods, as well. On one last note about urban design and infrastructure, at 26:05 or so, lindy talks about the North Acropolis and the emphasis on sets of 3, but I think it's a rather good example of Maya construction stages for large compounds. While Mesoamerican civilizations in general would build pyramids in layers (as Lindy also mentions later in the video with the "Lost World" pyramid, that's pretty typical for Mesoamerican pyramids), the Maya in particular often split off and then expanded structures like fractals: You'd start out with a relatively simple shrine on a small platform, but then that platform would be widened and more shrine structures or other buildings would be built upon it, while the existing one would be raised to have to have elevated pyramid steps, and so on, over time making entire hill sized complexes of multiple floors, buildings, etc on terraced platforms. The La Danta complex at El Mirador for example, ended up over 70 meters tall, and covering 42 acres of horizontal area! If you look up "Uaxactun palace construction" you can find good images of the progression for that. I take some issue with the way Lindy talked about the "Classic Maya Collapse": Yes, many of the giant Maya cities in the Central and Southern Yucatan Peninsula declined between roughly 800 and 900AD, including Tikal, but not all did, especially medium or small towns and villages; while the Maya cities in say the Northern and some other parts of the Peninsula were unaffected or even grew in power and size in the early Postclassic period. By the time the Spanish arrived, there were still some large cities (to say nothing of other Mesoamerican civilizations beyond the Maya) and as Lindy notes, there are still millions of Maya people today. The Maya city-state of Nojpeten was actually the very last Mesoamerican state to fall to Europeans, only being defeated in 1697. We actually also DO know quite about Maya commoners in their lives, thanks to archeology combined with we have ethnological records on the Postclassic Maya written by the Spanish With all that said, now let's address the elephant in the room: "Stone age" is not the right term to be using here. Lindy clearly understands that these were not primitive societies (Also, a lack of complexity isn't inherently lesser, either!), but beyond even just the baggage of that term, it's inappropriate here for other reasons. Firstly, it merely originated as a way for museums to date and group artefacts from Europe and the Near east back before we had more accurate dating methods. It was never intended to be nor does it accurately function as a series of steps or stages societies progress through: It's rather arbitrary to focus on the material of choice for tools instead of say population density or any other number of metrics; and metallurgy doesn't always go in that order: there are some cultures in Africa who developed steel metallurgy without ever inventing bronze and still living in small villages. And the Mesoamericans DID actually smelt metals! Gold, Silver, and Copper shows up around 600AD and bronze shows up around 1300AD, a few centuries before contact with Europeans, though it wasn't widely used in tools or weapons or armor still. (in Eurasia, metallurgy developed ALONGSIDE complex societies, with utilitarian metallurgy also being driven by the need for metal banding around wheels among other factors. in Mesoamerica, they already had massive cities with hundreds of thousands of denizens like Teotihuacan before any metallurgy showed up, no draft animals to drive carts to need to make wheels with, and the climate was also inhospitable to metal armor, as the Conquistadors found out. Lastly, on the note of Teotihuacan, 150,000 denizens is a bit of an older estimate, but it's still around the general ballpark, and the city is not Aztec, it predates them by around 1000 years, though the Aztec did take a lot of archecture and urban inspiration from the city, even refurnishing some of it's shrines, doing excavations there and working it into their mythology. But that's another video (One i'd be happy to help out with, if Lindy is interested) EDIT: It should also be noted that it is believed Teotihuacan invaded Tikal and a number of other Maya cities and installed their own rulers there in the late 4th century, in an event known as the Entrada, though this is somewhat debated. Science.org has a good article on this. What IS clear is Teotihuacan had contact with the Maya world, due to Maya ethnic neighborhoods and some palaces in the city (there were some Zapotec, Gulf Coast, and West Mexican neighborhoods too). In general, while Lindy did bring up some specific Tikal rulers, I wish he would have talked a bit more about specific wars and interactions with other Mesoamerican and Maya cities, as those sorts of details help people see these as real states with kings and wars and political history rather then just ruins. Tikal was the head of one of the most powerful Classic Maya Dynasties, and the proxy wars and direct conflicts it had with the other superpower Maya dynasty headed by Calakmul in the 6th to 8th centuries is easily as engaging as any war fought by two major European kingdoms, and is surprisingly well documented.

[@leeinnes7127]

Thanks for the reply, it was really interesting: I loved it.

[@Gstrangeman96]

Massive kudos for taking the time to post what amounts to a full-on damn essay in a KZbin comment section.

[@fumeshroomz]

Very interesting, thank you

[@Katerspacedopwater]

Thank you for your detailed reply! One thing that struck me as odd: in the video Lindy showed sculpture made in stucco. I always assumed those were carved in stone, but it turns out not. Did they even carve sculpture and reliefs in stone like that? Or did they perhaps not have the tools?

[@skrimper]

@@Katerspacedopwater yes,

[@irreverend_]

The most I've ever learnt about ancient Maya, I've never been that interested in the past, but I just can't stop watching Lindybeige, and I'm really glad every time I do. I have to thank you for just being you

[@diatonicdelirium1743]

Then I also recommend watching the "Fall of Civilizations" channel on YT

[@archaeoedpodcast]

Hello Lindybeige, Ed Barnhart here. Thanks for sort of recommending my Mesoamerica course on Wondrium to your viewers. I'm sorry to have disappointed you on "cradle work" (likely assisted by the fact that I'm not quite sure what that is) but at least my beige jacket pleased you. I like your style! Please give my little podcast - ArchaeoEd a try some time. A shout out for its KZbin page would be lovely. Happy holidays!

[@octavulg]

He's got a video on scholar's cradles that should explain all.

[@myparceltape1169]

He probably had several lecturers to choose from and you looked to be the most appropriate.

[@Johnny-Thunder]

I've visited several Maya cities years ago, and Tikal was definitely the best: because it is still mostly covered in jungle and there's tarantulas and coatis crawling all over the place it really gave me the Tomb Raider and Indiana Jones vibes. Seeing the tops of those temples rising up from the jungle canopy was magical. Unlike Chichen Itza where they removed the jungle, raked the leaves and mowed the lawn and put garbage bins and hotdog stands everywhere, it really killed the magic.

[@FalseNomen]

From a certain point of view, the experience at Chichen Itza, with its manicured grounds and vendors, is a more authentic view of what the city would have been like in the past. I suspect that the residents of Tikal would have done their best to clear away the tarantulas and coatis, too. Don't get me wrong, though, Tikal still sounds more fun to visit.

[@AnotherDuck]

@@FalseNomen Nah, I'm pretty sure they always lived in ancient ruins with overgrown plazas and fallen structures. The question is which part of the galaxy the aliens who built them came from.

[@cronchcrunch]

@@FalseNomen It's funny that people think of them as being jungle people when they put in a ton of effort to get rid of large tracts of jungle within their kindom.

[@KnightsWithoutATable]

@3:49 Those are wild turkeys and are a species native to the Yucatan peninsula and north central America. The other species native to North America is what was domesticated and shipped to farms in England. If the species seen here are anything like their northern cousins, they are almost all dark meat, slightly more gamey, and far leaner in taste. They also can fly short distance. All wild turkeys can. Domesticated ones are too fat and the flying feathers are too small to even get into a high roost like a chicken can.

[@EIixir]

This is a good series. Also, the night sky must be amazing from atop those temples with so little light pollution.

[@skrimper]

They cover the city at night, you can't see anything

[@LadyAnuB]

Just step into the jungle to get one of the eeriest feelings you can feel. A starless sky. This was an experience I had during jungle training when I was in the US Army. Had guard duty one night and you couldn't see any stars. It was fun getting off duty to head back to sleep.

[@Darkdaej]

The one thing I dislike with these on-site videos is that I've gotten used to listen to Lindy while I'm in bed and going to sleep. I'll generally fall asleep before the ad break but it's still very interesting and relaxing stuff to listen to while going to sleep.

[@adamcetinkent]

Dis...like?!

[@knightofarnor2552]

If the view of Tikal from above the canopy feels familiar to you, it's because it provided the look for the Massassi ruins on Yavin IV in Star Wars.

[@Savannah_Media]

I can’t believe he didn’t mention it!

[@Moukass]

Tomb raider Lindibeige

[@DukeNukem2417]

Lloyd looks like the quintessential British explorer.

[@rogerlacaille3148]

Needs a pith helmet 😏

[@dechezhaast]

@@rogerlacaille3148 exactly!

[@thurin84]

quintessential british [insert descriptive identifier here]

[@_Mentat]

While he was there he claimed the land for the Great White Queen over the ocean. Guatemala is now part of the British Empire.

[@kanrup5199]

lindyana jones...

[@josmith9662]

Was backpacking without a guidebook in the 90s. Went to a town called Flores and was suprised to find a handful of hostels. So I took one of the buses in the morning with everyone else, perhaps 50 tourists in all, expecting a temple or something simple. Would never go back, an unrepeatable experience, I felt like i had discovered the place

[@twudotJam]

This video was uploaded while I'm in the middle of a lesson on Mesoamerica and the Mayans in my Archaeology class. What a coincidence.

[@danceswithdirt7197]

I took an anthropology class on Mesoamerica! I loved it. It was one of my favorite classes.

[@twudotJam]

@@danceswithdirt7197 I'm planning on it! This is just a 202 introductions class. As an Anthropology major specializing in Archaeology, I will definitely be taking one of the Mesoamerican Anthropology classes at my university.

[@SpaceMonkeyBoi]

It's always so interesting to see the native American culture and builds. It's not often that you get to learn that much.

[@PinkBroBlueRope]

Native South American, I'd maybe say. While they're very diverse groups, I think we can honestly say that North American civilisation didn't match up at all to that in the south

[@herbiehusker1889]

@@PinkBroBlueRope Central American. Guatemala isn't is in South America.

[@PinkBroBlueRope]

@@herbiehusker1889 True

[@AnotherDuck]

@@ocelot985 Yeah, you can say North America, Central America, or Latin America, because those include the same territory around there. You can't say Northern America (which is north of Mexico) or South America (which is south/east of Panama). American regions are a bit on the confusing side...

[@MyMusicSosa]

@@AnotherDuck no, México is included in North America by all accounts, sorry.

[@rorydonaldson2794]

Photos don't do justice to the scale of places like this, these buildings are absolutely enormous. It's quite staggering honestly

[@jubuttib]

Aye, among other things (like depth perception etc.) it's just the difference between a looking at an image filmed with a camera pointing upwards, vs. actually having to crane your neck to look there.

[@-Zevin-]

Temple number V is around the same size as a modern 20 floor building to put it into perspective, built of stone, with no pack animals, incredibly impressive.

[@jamesdavis1917]

I just wrapped up a college course focused on the rise and fall of the Maya earlier today, wish this was uploaded before my final...

[@TheMasonator777]

Chichen Itzá is the most impressive of the sites for me. Been there twice. It’s amazing, well worth the trip.

[@SuperMassiveGrayCat]

Oh my that sweater Lindy is wearing during the advertisiment! So cool that I watched through the ad just staring at it.

[@ericstoverink6579]

Next time you're in the Americas go see Cahokia Mounds near St. Louis. It's also a UNESCO world heritage site. It was the largest settlement of the Mississippian culture. Monk's mound is the largest earthwork monument in the world. Its footprint dwarfs that of the Great Pyramid of Giza.

[@tbr2109]

I second this. Mound builder sites are incredibly impressive for what they are and the sad thing is most people in the United States don't even know they exist.

[@Hunting380]

I love these Lindiana Jones videos! 🤠 Edit: I wrote that before his Indiana qoute 🤣👍

[@BenCadorette]

When you first came into view I couldn’t help but think you might be the most British thing I’ve ever seen. An archeologist kitted out exploring some native ruins. Surely even the dirt under your boots whispered God save the Queen as you passed.

[@Logan_93]

Man Lindy, I've loved your videos for so many years now. They're always so comforting and enjoyable. You're the best.

[@bdr420i]

I loved how respectful you're to this magnificent please and not even stepping on the stairs. Thank you ❤️

[@bee4472]

The huge tree you were showing are also in Hawaii, they tower above the other trees, and it doesn’t lightning in Hawaii. Or it’s very rare, I think I’ve heard thunder 1 time ever when there. So maybe they live longer on the islands

[@Huffman_Tree]

19:25 I did not expect to hear it like that. Amazing.

[@xxamle]

I certainly hope you had a great time here, thanks for coming, and again, I really hope you enjoyed your stay :)

[@canadianeh4792]

I feel like Lindybeige should be wearing a pith helmet and carrying a Martini-Henry

[@cyberflotsam]

Excellent ant voice-over...Johnny Morris would have been proud

[@pub795]

I'm a simple man. Lloyd uploads and I watch.

[@georgehornsby2075]

Excellent, been looking forward to the next episode in the adventures of Linyana Beige.

[@SirKonrad]

We can honestly say Tikal was one of the most amazing sites we’ve ever been to!!

[@KonigJindiao]

I remember when I went there years ago, I loved it and I am 100% Maya

[@user-ii5im7zm2t]

Thank you for doing this. The rise, and mysterious fall, of the Mayan civilization is something I think humanity could stand to understand better.

[@joshguevara9570]

Dope video. As a Mexican American I appreciate seeing our heritage investigated by the one and only Lindybeige!

[@DawnOfTheDead991]

Guatemala, not Mejico

[@quinn3334]

@@DawnOfTheDead991 colonial borders don't define heritage

[@DawnOfTheDead991]

@@quinn3334 Regardless the Mayans were not in Mexico.

[@DawnOfTheDead991]

@@quinn3334 Regardless the Mayans were not in Mexico.

[@citrusblast4372]

@@DawnOfTheDead991 they are, they covered most of the peninsula which mexico has some. Mexico has a state called yucatan where yucatec mayan speakers live

[@NadaNada-bg8ij]

Some how no matter the topic, watching a Lindy video let’s me forget all that is wrong in the world. A fantastic video as ever thank you

[@BREADSWORD]

love your archeology content! hella pog

[@omariscovoador7486]

Loved the video, i'm brazilian and served in the army for some time, i would go on training camps at the Jungle, of course at night you are not supposed to make any noise and the sounds of the nature i would hear there while at night were absolutely beautiful, it really makes you feel lost and small, submerged by the green ocean of leaves, people who never went to the deep woods will never have this experience

[@gtbkts]

I live in Ohio, US. Its hard to find a place like that here. But, when i find that special place, it feels alot like you described. Like I'm a speck in an ocean of green nature. So amazing.

[@Gstrangeman96]

I have only ever been out into the woods at night a couple of times but even then I guess I was not deep enough. I remember distinctly the silence, and thinking "this is not how a natural woodland is supposed to sound". The issue with many of the woods in Europe, or at least north Italy, is that even places that today you might think look remote and untainted, might actually have been farmland or managed woodland up until a couple centuries ago. I have no idea how you would go about finding "real" natural woodland in a place that's been as heavily humanized for as long as Italy has, but if someone tried, I would not be surprised if they found that only less than 1% of forested area in the country has always remained untouched by human management. Even in those places I reckon there's a chance that light, noise and atmospheric pollution have impacted the wildlife, making the forest a lot quieter. You are very lucky to live in a country that still has swaths of real, natural, untainted forest. I hope you make your part in safeguarding it against industrial interests.

[@shannonmcstormy5021]

I complain and criticize loudly (less so as I have gotten older) when I see things I don't agree with, people not being nice, ignorance, poor quality information, poor quality production, etc. Therefore, I consider it only fair to praise when deserved. Mr. Lindy Beige.....hat's off! You are literally a gentleman and a scholar. You are often humorous, present ideas in a very digestible way, and your expertise and efforts to get facts right (and note when you are somewhat guessing) are all part of your unique style. The production quality of your videos is top shelf, so similar props to your production team. I love your digressions into quasi-stream of consciousness where you often cover questions that are organically appearing just before in my own head. This is one of the best historical channels on KZbin. Your content is fascinating and diverse. So, salute from a grandmother fan from Minnesota, US ! (hugs) .

[@roninhood1027]

Lindiana Beige! The legend continues!

[@paradox7358]

He's back baby

[@SadfaicMusic]

Ah, yes. Another well needed episode of Indiana Beige

[@capaneus184]

4:12 I love this unexpected entrance.

[@Aengus42]

I knew my tubular aluminium prosthetics would be handy for something! No warm squishy bits to get bitten! Stunning video Lindy! I love being allowed to tag along on your archeological visits. Thank you!

[@NANNO_FEMBOY]

I was there in 2018 but i was 17 years old and my parents didnt let me do anything cool sadly, glad you visited my home land, cheers.

[@britishhorsepirates6891]

Ive been watching your videos for about 5 or 6 years now. It’s probably one of my favourite channels, I have seen almost all of your videos. I think you could make a really really interesting podcast show or something. I feel like a large majority of your viewers have listened to podcasts and would probably listen to yours.

[@randyhavard6084]

I don't know what amazes me more about the Mayan ruins, the fact they built in the first place or that they were completely abandoned and forgot about for hundreds of years.

[@jordanhedington2421]

Man, lindy really knows his shit. Would love another hour and a half long ramble of a story video soon please. Hope you’re enjoying your time abroad

[@Gstrangeman96]

Don't know about you, but I could also use an extended cut of the "music of the jungle" section at the end. Falling asleep to that must be bliss.

[@mrdabeetle1]

I hope you can bring us more on site archaeology videos. These are great. Just as Roman statues were painted bright colors, so were the important structures of the Maya. Have a look at some of the recent geological and genetic studies on ancient peoples. There's some information there that may interest you about who the Maya (and other American peoples) are and where they came from and when. (Hint: the arctic "land bridge" had not yet formed.)

[@rosmundsen]

I am glad that your driver was qualified to be a protector.

[@VosperCDN]

When your trip needs protection from human predators more than natural ones.

[@oldetymebiker2405]

The animals at sunset was a beautiful thing to hear. I really hope they can prevent the road building.

[@jeramydowns2487]

I like how you kinda look like a traditional Victorian era chap wondering through "unknown" areas. Your most educational content has always had me waiting for the next bit. Im slightly jealous and grateful. Thank you.

[@Oxtocoatl13]

Regarding the literacy among the wider Maya population: I once heard a lecturer describe a post-classical stela with loads of glyphs on it but the text was meaningless gibberish, meaning that at some point during the collapse the writing was forgotten, but later kings still wanted to put up impressive stones with glyphs on them just like their predecessors. This would imply that the actual skill of writing was so restricted that it could easily be lost.

[@MajoraZ]

This isn't quite right. The Maya script was definitely still in use during the Postclassic period, as we have 4 surviving Postclassic Maya books which use it. There ARE examples of "gibberish" text on some ceramics and the like, which is usually thought to be commoners who were illterate emulating the script for their own goods to make them seem higher class. I'm not familiar with the specific stela you're talking about so maybe in that specific case even the ruling elite of that city weren't literate, but it's def not a universal thing during the Postclassic.

[@williamjenkins4913]

@@MajoraZ That reminds me of Asian goods slapping nonsense English words on their packaging.

[@citrusblast4372]

@@MajoraZ it makes me wonder what similar cases there are in china and or japan with the early stages of their writing, was the whole of china literate and were their periods where literacy dropped like during mao rule?

[@cahallo5964]

@@MajoraZ maybe it wasn't gibberish and it was just a local system? like, comunal system, as far as I know it wasn't uncommon to just take writing characters and use them as you want, several cases of this in early japanese writing, for example.

[@MajoraZ]

@@cahallo5964 I can't read Maya script so I can't really explain how or why, but Maya epigraphists are pretty sure it's gibberish as far as I know. It's not like we only know the rough symbolism of Maya characters, almost the whole script is fully deciphered and we know the specific sounds each character represented in the spoken languiage. I think there's some logograms (the Maya script both had actual syllabic characters and hieroglyph-esque logograms, the same word or sentence could be represented in either system or both at the same time) that we still don't entirely know, but as far as i'm aware there's not enough left unknown to where what you're proposing would be a viable conclusion... at least as far as I know.

[@AlucardNoir]

Hei Lindy, here's a question you might be interested in making a video about: how did the stone age civilizations of the "new world" chiseled into stone? In the good "old world" even the ancient Egyptians were in the eneolithic by the time they started building their pyramids. Some of those stele seem very detailed, not to mention all those steps and stone.

[@maddie9602]

I'm also curious how they managed to carve up stone -- even just carving out blocks for construction -- without bronze or iron tools. Carving stone with stone tools doesn't seem like it would work -- wouldn't a flint or obsidian chisel break before, say, limestone would? -- so what would they have used?

[@lewisirwin5363]

@@maddie9602 They'd use a harder stone, simple. In New Zealand the Maori economy was partly based around controlling and shipping the best argillite and jade for tool use.

[@Ezyasnos]

The informal way of filming makes it all so much closer. Thanks!

[@dopaminedrip]

Thank you for this archiving once again sir.

[@sjohnson4882]

I have been to several Mayan ruins in southern Mexico. This one looks like an amazing place. Definitely on the list.

[@robotslug]

I hope this isn't a rude question to ask, but it would be very helpful to me. How much did this trip cost "in country"? I understand our airfare would be significantly different, but I am curious how much it cost when on the ground, with a driver and the lot. Thank you for taking us on your adventure!

[@TheZigzagman]

Tickets to the park are about 20 bucks USD per day (extra if you're camping or going for one of the "sunrise" tours). There's a shuttle that runs between Tikal and the nearest city Flores for about 10 bucks and I think there's a public bus route that goes to the park too. I'm sure a private driver who may or may not be armed is significantly more expensive.

[@-Zevin-]

I spent about 2 weeks in Guatemala, slept at Tikal a couple nights, and spent time in other parts of the country like lake Atitlan, the famous lake surrounded by three volcanos, lots of local Mayan people and arts and crafts. Not hard to get away from tourists and have a authentic experience. You're not going to believe this but I spent under $1,000 for the entire experience. I crossed the border and river from Chiapas Mexico by boat. While I had absolutely no negative experiences be warned Guatemala is like the wild west in many parts of the country people can be stopped by "police cars" that are actually uniformed bandits, sometimes entire gangs block roads and shake down people, murders have happened. I hired a van with a driver through a contact in Mexico to do my point to point transport, he had allot of experience and carried a shotgun between the drivers seat. I even saw a man change a coca cola machine with a guard armed with a Ak-47 to put it into perspective. Not trying to scare you away, I would do that trip again in a heartbeat, but stay safe and plan ahead. Also decoy wallet, save your old debit cards wallet junk and keep a decoy wallet with a expired ID and a small amount of cash on you, keep your real wallet hidden like under your waistband on a special travel wallet. Also there is the holy grail to me El mirador the large city still unexcavated deep in the Jungle. It was mentioned in the video that you have to take a helicopter there but that actually isn't true. You can organize transport by foot through rough jungle and a few pack animals, the trek is something like 5 days one way If I remember correctly. It would be the experience of a life time though, true Indiana jones stuff lol. If you have any other questions feel free to ask, I have quite a bit of experience traveling in Latin America and Asia, and I love helping others get started on their journeys, it was life changing for me.

[@asianthor]

I love Maya history and I've been fortunate to have gone to fourteen Mayan archaeological sites in eleven years...Cerros,, Caracol, Copan, Chichen Itza, Mayapan, Uzmal, Calakmul, Palenque, Nakbe, El Mirador, Cival, Holmul, Piedras Negras, and Tikal. And yes, Lindy is correct, Tikal is awesome and it is the greatest of all Mayan sites.

[@windborne8795]

Great episode Sir Lloyd! 🤪 For anyone who cares to know, the grub shown @7:20 is a Sphinx Moth larva. They form their chrysalis in shallow soil. Always found that fascinating. Cheers!

[@blaskowitz7000]

Tikal you say? Amazing!

[@SwissTopper]

I just want to say, Jeremy did a fantastic job :)

[@dechezhaast]

Yes, it’s quite refreshing

[@bicivelo]

I did sunset and sunrise at Tekal and I will never forget the stark beauty and sounds of tropical animals and howler monkeys as the world got dark around them. I want to go back now and will appreciate Tekal so much more after watching this video. Great work, LB!

[@andyrmac7733]

HIGH QUALITY VIEWING AS ALWAYS. TIME WATCHING IS TIME WELL SPENT. THANK YOU FOR POSTING!

[@johnlegg5671]

Firstly, masterful presentation. Secondly, and, to be frank, personally, I gave always been fascinated by the Mayans, so this was a real treat. Informative, entertaining, thankyou for uploading this.

[@forodinssake9570]

One issue i have is, Mesoamerica wasn't really stone age. Metallurgy was known to pre Columbian Americans, both from South and North America. It wasn't used as commonly as materials like obsidian but calling Mesoamerica "Stine age" is a bit innacurate in my opinion

[@dvklaveren]

To be fair, iron was also known about in the Bronze and Copper age; It's meant to be a measure of industry rather than the edge of human knowledge. That all said, it makes me think stone age of probably best used for European culture rather than, say, Japan or Meso-America.

[@forodinssake9570]

@@dvklaveren there's also an issue of "stone age" being thought of as inherently primitive

[@drink__more__water]

Whoever was behind the camera did a splendid job. edit: jeremy!

[@RenlangRen]

Normally I just watch KZbin videos on my cell phone, but for this one I fired up my media computer and watched it on my tv. Fascinating video. Nice job.

[@anthonyhoward4743]

Anybody got any ideas what and where I take this? a few years ago I was able to photocopy party of a book before it was thrown away that was written in Stalag 6 and called the Yorkshire Post. It has cartoons and some parts talk about camp entertainment and art in the camp. It is like a newspaper. I also have original flight school notes from 1939 and a memorial plaque that was made after WW2 with names and a handmade propeller in the middle. I really do not know what to do with it all. Any help or tips would be greatly apricated.

[@Brave_Sir_Robin]

now why might the book have been thrown away?

[@anthonyhoward4743]

@@Brave_Sir_Robin the guys son who in the RAF said he could never live up to who his Dad was and chucked a lot of his stuff away. I was lucky to save some of it. He wanted me to buy it off him cause he was moving but i had no money. sad story really.

[@Brave_Sir_Robin]

@@anthonyhoward4743 damn

[@perspii2808]

Damn they really went and added a Lindybeige dlc to Forza Horizon 5

[@-Zevin-]

Spending a couple of days at Tikal was one of the best experiences of my life. You can actually sleep at the site, there is some small bungalows you can rent. Waking up at first light to the sound of Howler monkeys is a cool experience, and they are much more active during the morning, a Group of 20 or so howling at each other and climbing right around the temple of the Jaguar.

[@highlanderNC-mr8fe]

Interesting. I was in that region a few months ago. Very cool place. I really like the fact that they loved Chocolate cacao!

[@chromarush1749]

Lindybeige proves he's British by stealing a Mayan artifact.

[@TerkanTyr]

I always underestimated the size of Pre-Columbian civilizations like the Maya. Until I learned they had bigger cities than contemporary London.

[@718Gilbert]

No bloody way! I need a wiki article please

[@attalan8732]

Part of the reason is that people have this incorrect idea that the mayans lived in stuffy jungle cities. They didn't. They cut down the forest like any reasonable civilisation would and used the wood to build a lot of houses. Unfortunately their civilisation collapsed before the spanish ever showed up so by the time the first European scholars showed up the yucatan was covered by forest again, leading to disbelief and underestimation of the size of mayan cities, on the part of Europeans and many native Americans too. After all, their native city building ancestors would have died out hundreds of years prior.

[@Oxtocoatl13]

Modern lidar imaging has consistently shown that the cities were much bigger than previously thought. It's amazing what we keep discovering.

[@TerkanTyr]

@@718Gilbert en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenochtitlan kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJ6rh6SYa9mSlZo Here's an article and a video on Tenochtitlan, what Mexico City once was. And I'll just say that size wasn't the only impressive thing about that place.

[@MissRazna]

this is your best video to date. seriously unbelievable coverage and great facts

[@RosoMC]

"Kapok was used for stuffing life vests back during the WW2". Damn, that's helpful. I finally understand why Polish word for life vest is 'kapok'. :D

[@craigrobbins2463]

The British and stealing artifacts. Name a more iconic duo ;)

[@charleslesther3043]

A very simple trick to smooth things out a bit…have Jeremy start his move at the beginning of the last sentence/phrase on those “pan away” shots. No need to wait for you to finish. Those (very) occasional pacing issues aside, brilliant as always! Perfect example of enthusiasm being infectious WHILE relatively subdued!

[@gtbkts]

I was trying to find the words to politely tell him that. You probably said it better. Thanks.

[@Fliegenpilzkonsument]

It's amazing how much time has passed since the first video from Guatemala and they're still coming! Great.

[@seanferguson5460]

What an extraordinary trip! I'm envious. Speaking of Wondrium/Great Courses, my favourite series so far is that by Dr. Kenneth Harl re the Peloponnesian War, thirty-six half-hour lectures that I have listened to many times over many years. Despite that, every hearing reveals something new. Enormously satisfying.

[@firesteel1]

Please don't touch the ancient wood/stone (or imply you're taking any souvenirs), it's a big no no for preserving sites and it sets a bad example. Thanks

[@LordJazzly]

24:40 Hee, 'flat platforms'. That one always makes me smile, like 'fence palings' or 'camp site'. Perfectly good English; just not as good in the languages they've been put together from. [Edit:] Also - this was a long time before brutalism brought the whole 'large grimy slab of discoloured grey stone in a conspicuously public space' look into vogue, so even though I don't know much about the site or indeed mesoamerican archaeology in general, I'd be pretty surprised if those platforms never got used by people cleaning and polishing the big fancy temple.

[@d33w]

That bird mimicking echo was amazing! Great video, seems like a trip worth taking.

[@paladinsplace5072]

Lindy, I will always look up to you. Thanks for posting another great video, Ill definently rewatch it.

[@Angrypolack]

Still searching for Hannibal….

[@penultimateh766]

One of the best things about Mayan culture was the human sacrifice. How dare the Spaniards put an end to that noble practice. So bigoted.

[@stickemuppunkitsthefunlovi4733]

They were peaceful sacrifices..

[@legal040]

no more killing for the gods, from now on we kill for money

[@lucianoxiquin831]

Yeah, right. How forget the Spaniards came here with purely moral motivation. It's not like the crow has to step in to stop their abuse or idk, send an army to defeat the early conquerors that rebel afterwards.

[@FalseNomen]

True, the Spaniards never practiced human sacrifice, but one wonders if the thousands the Spaniards tortured or burned at the stake in the name of their god would have appreciated the difference.

[@penultimateh766]

@@FalseNomen Perhaps less than the MILLIONS whose hearts were sawn out by the Mesoamericans.

[@brancapanettidamadia]

Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis brought me here. Actually Lindybeige did, I could listen to this man for hours!

[@christurner6854]

Walked that very path across that very drainage line. amazing

[@archenema6792]

When visiting, be sure to bring several rolls of pennies or other small denomination coins. You WILL be surrounded by swarms of begging urchins, and throwing a handful of these coins in the opposite direction from which you are heading will usually open up an escape route.

[@archenema6792]

@@OldManYellsAtClouds I'm simply relating tried and true advice from seasoned travelers. Have you been there? If so, how did you get Dan Andrews' permission to leave your internment camp cell? 🤣🤣

[@archenema6792]

​@@OldManYellsAtClouds Just for fun, let's analyze what's wrong with your replies. 1) The definition of urchin: a mischievous young child, especially one who is poorly or raggedly dressed. This is NOT a value judgement, but an accurate description. 2) The definition of begging: asking for something, typically food or money, as charity or a gift. That's what they do. Again, NOT a value judgement, but a description of fact. 3) This advice doesn't actually apply to this site, but to Chichen Itza. Tikal is far less visited, and has no nearby residential areas. If you had even the slightest idea what you're talking about, you would've known that. 4) I received notifications of your replies within seconds, and they already had likes. This means that only you could've liked your own replies, revealing that you are the lowest form of social media coward. 5) A person who uses the idioms of another nation and culture in an attempt to sound "cool" is just pathetic. I'm sure there are more things wrong with these replies, but not having training in evaluating mental illness, I leave it to others to identify them.

[@Alex_Fahey]

@@OldManYellsAtClouds I'm curious where you come from that you meet inhuman urchins unless you happen to be from Atlantis. Urchins that beg are definitionally human children. I guess you can at least say he did judge them to be beneath him becuase children are rather short.

[@archenema6792]

@@Alex_Fahey You should see his subscription list. Mostly handsome young men in their late teens and early 20s, with a sprinkling of extreme far left communists, some both. Hardly a female KZbinr to be found. I'll leave it to you to decide what that means. 🤣🤣🤣

[@archenema6792]

@@OldManYellsAtClouds I notice you didn't like your own replies this time. So I guess the rest of my points weren't that irrelevant to you, after all, were they? 🤣🤣

[@Tutel0093]

British people be like: 08:08

[@Tutel0093]

Spanish people be like: we bring civilization, infrastructure and culture Confused natives be like: 15:18

[@vilvero]

That they did all this by hand is very impressive.

[@WisdomThumbs]

7:20 is the first time in my life that I recall watching a grubworm *walk.* Never seen one move beyond curling itself up before. And I've seen so many!