Tollense - a bronze age battle?

[@lindybeige]

I was going to say that the mallet-like club reminded me of a shillelagh, but I forgot. I forgot to talk about hillforts as well. Consider yourselves lucky.

[@simonk.4338]

Lindybeige lol you great man :)

[@tudor_8536]

i do...

[@itchykami]

Battlefield, or graveyard of a highly warlike society? Side note, this is what happens when I add a comment before watching the whole video. Thank you for reading this, traveling back in time, and telling your past self to address this question before I ask it.

[@brendaproffitt1011]

Lindybeige what you talk about in interesting to me..and the mallets too.do what is the iron and bronze medals? at the same era??

[@Fatespinner]

Lucky? I would have loved to hear about hillforts and the nature of weapon evolution.

[@MelchiahTheObscene]

I'm eagerly awaiting the release of Call of Duty: Possible Warfare.

[@Healermain15]

Call of Duty: Primal Warfare

[@USSAnimeNCC-]

Melchiah The Obscene imagine if battlefield beat them it

[@Tadicuslegion78]

no no it must be Assassin's Creed: Bronzed

[@cpt_nordbart]

Battlefield 1200B.C. ?

[@Tadicuslegion78]

yes and they'll have DLC like Fire and Ice

[@caveymoley]

"... he had 3 head wounds that had previously healed, what does this mean?" -He never learned to duck, and helmets are extremely important pieces of equipment.

[@goaty774]

caveymoley could have been evidence of trepanning

[@Fatespinner]

Maybe he was a precursor to the British officer, and therefore, never ducked.

[@kingpopaul]

Maybe people tripple-tapped and they were bad at it?

[@NefariousKoel]

Just goes to show the philosophy, "two in the head and you know they're dead" didn't come into use until after the advent of firearms.

[@sms4669]

maybe he had a helmet, ducked everytime, got hit anyway, because, you know, battles and stuff, and otherwise would've been dead on the first blow

[@Tomartyr]

After the third rock falling on my head I would quit mining and start a new career, maybe in the military.

[@Nyctophora]

Maybe that's what he did.

[@NobleNemesis]

But then you dishonour your ancestors and anger the gods! Can't have that in your primitive mind! Have to be strong, like a horse! :D

[@MrDmitriRavenoff]

You'd likely have the mental capacity of Forest Gump at that point, so you'd be perfect!

[@argonianale5716]

Made me laugh hearing some poor dude had 3 huge head injuries and survived them 😂

[@arthas640]

I've been hit in the head by more then 3 rocks and ive never even been in a mine... I'm just not very lucky

[@sergarlantyrell7847]

I'd like to propose that instead of a battle, there was a controversy at a bronze-age croquet or polo match and a violent fight broke out.

[@Kenshiroit]

Hooligans

[@teemusid]

Growing up in my suburban neighborhood, we played touch football, basketball, and OTL/Indian Ball. The longest and loudest arguments involved croquet.

[@akashahuja2346]

The upper sixth annual sports day was marked by violence when parents were involved in an altercation...

[@likeitout]

😂😂👏👏. Bronze Age croquet hooligans. Brilliant. I wonder if they had their chants “you’re going home in a red and white chariot”

[@Mirrorgirl492]

Check out the poem: 'The Geebung Polo Club' - an Australian classic about just such a scenario.

[@mackono1]

In Germany, arrows penetrate in metric! Good stuff!

[@e.m.hernandez9791]

Mackon, in USSR metric penetrates you.

[@arthurpozner7701]

@Tiny mod The Meter was adopted by the National Convention.Not Bonaparte.

[@ithemba]

@@arthurpozner7701 in France it was, yes. In Germany, to which the first comment referred, it was brought in by Bonaparte, at least into the confederation of the rhine.

[@stevek8829]

And centuries later humans using feet landed on the moon. The measure used by navigation isn't metric either.

[@ithemba]

@@stevek8829 pretty sure NASA uses the metric system, as does the rest of the scientific community

[@yomauser]

A drunken horse fell on him from the roof. That's what really happened to him.

[@Dosbomber]

A drunken horse carrying a sack of flint arrow heads.

[@nutcrackit7396]

I though this was in germany not in poland.

[@nutcrackit7396]

I am just waiting for someone to get the reference

[@busteraycan]

...next to a rocky riverbank

[@jimslater8685]

A drunk bull kicked a horse carrying a sack of flint arrowheads off a roof

[@yellowjackboots2624]

Breaks your heart knowing these poor men were slaughtering each other, when there were perfectly good frenchmen they could have been slaughtering.

[@bashkillszombies]

Makes you wonder if there were bankers with little hats funding both sides as there has been the last three centuries of war.

[@valance10]

bashpr0mpt Woah woah woah, we don’t talk about that in public

[@TheSecondVersion]

France had not been invented yet in the Bronze Age; and what happy times those were.

[@henrikg1388]

@@TheSecondVersion I bet they ate frogs all the way back then.

[@user-xs1is9yd5o]

@Sage Brignac not really, because everyone eventually gets tired of their games and kicks them out. 109 and counting...

[@oliverwilson7220]

Don't use a magnet to rob an iron age museum, sounds like wisdom gained from experience.

[@stsk7]

Lool good one

[@paraszt4269]

That was a very specific example.

[@homelessEh]

lol .. "im gonna hit u so hard Even the archaeologists thousands of years from now will know what hit you.. " lol

[@stevenwhite7763]

Consider that lovingly ripped off

[@sarge-cp8yq]

Boom roasted!

[@DrillEntertainmentNetwork]

@@sarge-cp8yq eat shit

[@BeeBait]

@@sarge-cp8yq only thing roasting are pigs on a blue line

[@Liam_The_Great]

@@BeeBait by pigs do you mean police?

[@leoghigu]

"You would be lying on your back, shouting , only in Bronze Age German." Got me chuckling.

[@Tom_Quixote]

*Ärrrrggh

[@DogWalkerBill]

No swords - How about swords were valuable and were scavanged by the winners of the battle.

[@daemonburns-waight2421]

That's a real good point. If I'd knocked a swordsman dead with my grandfather's walking stick, I'd definitely take his sword.

[@rbzuuka7948]

spears and axes were most likely the most common weapons in this timeperiod (spears first and foremost). you naturally had a axe to chop your firewood among other things and spears were basicly a pole with a small pointy thingy made outta bronze at one end while swords were made out of a big chunk of bronze with the non-pointy part of the sword wrapped in small piece of wood and bronze was not cheap.

[@pinochets1fan177]

Or maybe this particular Bronze age people weren't advance enough to cast a sword, swords were only common then after 10th century BC -and they seem only be used by relatively advanced civilisation like the egypt's kopesh, indicating that they seem to be the one possesing the metalurgy and casting technology to make a proper sword, now bear in mind this happened in north germany in 12 Century BC, nowhere near any advanced civilisation.

[@siliciaveerah9327]

@@pinochets1fan177 casting swords and smithing swords were very different processes

[@Falcontruth]

@@siliciaveerah9327 That is true, however due to the low melting temperature of bronze, swords of that material are cast, and then hammered afterward to forge harden the material. Iron and steel swords are forged to shaped due to the much higher melting temperature.

[@jessicascoullar3737]

We had a talk at school (about 20 years ago now) from an army engineer for careers day. He was in Papua New Guinea working on some humanitarian project and almost got to experience tribal warfare. About twenty young men from each tribe turned up on the football oval with spears ready to defend their honour, but then it rained so they all went home. For some reason that story stuck with me.

[@joemeyers4131]

That's very interesting though because i think further ancient groups in PreEuropeans zones there had modes fighting like in some ways as the peoples that had been settled long ago in remote jungles !

[@oftin_wong]

Mostly it's all for show in new Guinea ..a bluff of sorts to demonstrate manliness

[@Tom_Quixote]

@@oftin_wong We could learn something from them.

[@Ozeanruderin]

In contrary to what you‘ve said: Cut(marks) from Swords were discovered on the bones, but no swords. It is likely that the swords were collected after the battle, which is not that unusual.

[@samholdsworth420]

Well of course why wouldn't you scavenge a battlefield

[@nataliajimenez1870]

​@@samholdsworth420The thing is that those bones seemed to have been buried quickly in water. So it could have been an ambush and not a battle.

[@TheitaniofRome]

"Before the dark times." This had me actually laugh out loud alone at home.

[@mariebcfhs9491]

Before the Empire?

[@SmithMaximus]

Actually, i assume that the chap with three headwounds WON those fights wherein he suffered them. You get wounded and your side loses, that's it, you're dead. Either finished by the victor as you lay bleeding on the battlefield, or left to die as all your friends are killed or routed. If you get wounded and your side WINS, now you've got a decent chance at getting the help you need. Hell, if you survive, you'll probably get good battlefield credits, too!

[@amandasaint8513]

SmithMaximus - Actually, that's pretty much a myth. The times that it happened, like the killing of the French prisoners at Agincourt, it was recorded as an anomaly. They may have been taken as slaves, but the wholesale slaughter of defeated armies? Doesn't do anyone any good.

[@CraftQueenJr]

Or it means he lost, but it was just a friendly brawl.

[@whynotdean8966]

If you take a blow to the head sufficient to crack your skull, you've lost the fight. It doesn't matter how you spin it. Sure maybe he was in the army and his fellows won and saved him. Or he was spared or it was rocks or a brawl. But he still lost.

[@Kenshiroit]

If not comatose that guy would be a total idiot. Maybe they dragt him to the battle hoping it would wake him up.

[@are3287]

@@amandasaint8513 sand peoples do it even today so why not

[@highlandrab19]

what if it was one guy and 37 skulls from his collection?

[@crisgale8098]

highlandrab19 well we can't rule that out

[@kirotheavenger60]

Skulls for the skull throne!

[@terilyte3152]

Blood for the blood god

[@TheOneLichemperor]

Milk for the Khornflakes!

[@JakeMobley1]

SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!

[@VonPete105]

A rounders bat and a croquet mallet? Perhaps it was a game of Brockian Ultra-Cricket.

[@crisgale8098]

Base Imperial perhaps indeed

[@self-transforming_machine-elf]

that fellow with the triple head trauma must've been the ref

[@andrewking6178]

isn´t that played in higher dimentions only? :D

[@edi9892]

Base Imperial I think it was made from a y-shaped branch with the thinner part as the handle (probably bent).

[@VonPete105]

Perhaps the mice got bored waiting to for humanity to think they'd invented maze experiments?

[@Survivethejive]

Genetically - the victims at Tollense were like modern Germanics Celtic and Slavic peoples. Indicates travel from afar

[@kacperkaminki2015]

It was Nordic, Poles and Italians. No Germans blood there, thats why after taking 10% of all what is there, they stopt hehe. But its not unusual, coz till Chroby lands what is calling now Bawaria and Saksonia was belong to Polish ppl.

[@kacperkaminki2015]

@@bard8689 It was like i wrote. Coz moste those Germans came in big migration 400-600+. So the wasnt here and those lands till Chrobry was belong to Polish ppl. Berlin was build by Poles. So those was Nords :)

[@kacperkaminki2015]

@@bard8689 But Gots came from lands what are calling now Maroco and no one know what they was doing there. Coz they didnt know how to write. This gens show clyrly it was Poles, Nordic and Italians.

[@Kenshiroit]

@@kacperkaminki2015 italians germans and poles? Are we talking about time travellers? since none of exstided yet.

[@kacperkaminki2015]

@@Kenshiroit Names, but same ppl.

[@slick4401]

"Tribal warfare is really nasty." Explains quite a bit of what's going on nowadays.

[@joshstock6591]

Even more so now...

[@jimjambananaslam3596]

It's all tribal if you break it down enough

[@joemeyers4131]

If you see this post would you be willing to muse that even in very old Mesopotamia there were forms of tribal patterned like head hunting of trophy skulls way back ..?

[@slavpepe6581]

You are genuinely my favourite KZbin, no drama no dumb stuff you're just polite, well read and make great content

[@SteveM000100]

20:35 "As for dating.." - Aren't they a little far gone for that?

[@mistahsusan2650]

SteveM you're never too old ...

[@heavyhands1383]

Age is just a five-digit number.

[@slukky]

nyuck nyuck...

[@duo496]

Mistah Susan your only as old as you feel

[@dzonbrodi514]

oh very good

[@Mike_of_the_Sonora]

"perhaps his horse fell on him" - lindybeige 2017

[@notpulverman9660]

Yeah he said it like 5 times. He must really believe firmly in this horse theory, and want us to also believe.

[@gfoog3911]

It could happen, let's say he's leading his horse on slippery terrain and the horse loses its footing and falls on him

[@DonnaBarrHerself]

Henry VIII’s horse fell on HIM.

[@settratheimperishable4093]

@@gfoog3911 or he falls in battle by his horse dying on top of him (although if I remember correctly horses weren't used that much in combat back then)

[@eekee6034]

When horses were used in battle or ridden hard in difficult terrain, this was not exactly uncommon. It was sort-of like death or serious injury in a car accident before cars had the safety features they have today.

[@mrpirate3470]

3:47 The 'mallet' club was most likely made in the same way the irish shillelagh was. You cut a blackthorn tree [or other hard durable wood] the trunk forms the head of the mallet and a branch you've cleverly cut the trunk either side of forms a handle that is organically part of the head and therefore way stronger than a carpentry joined one. Also blackthorn is very durable and hard... perfect for bashing things with ^^

[@willdigforfood5065]

Posting from an excavation in Israel - this stuff is great! Having spent the last three weeks digging down to - and articulating - a Roman plaster floor, this is fascinating stuff.

[@IdleDrifter]

Just once I want them to find an ancient battle in Canada and they dig up primitive hockey sticks.

[@noahmiller8042]

boiling maple syrup would be nasty actually thats stuffs like tar or pitch

[@NobleNemesis]

Ahaha 'xaaaactly! :)

[@alfatazer_8991]

Give it a few thousand years. Archaeologists will dig up a hockey rink to curiously shaped clubs helmets and protective padding and, wrongfully, assume this must be some sort of gladiatorial arena where men beat each other with clubs whilst sliding on ice. So basically, a normal game of ice hockey.

[@martinbeagle6448]

I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

Underappreciated comment from Mr. Beagle.

[@buffdaddy0100]

Did not see that audible plug coming till it was too late.

[@RebelSoule]

it was the most smooth transition to a advertisement that i said...."well lets hear him out."

[@MUJAHID56787]

Boofy my nigga got me too!!! Was about to exit the video too lol

[@LeoMRogers]

He needs to be careful there. The UK Advertising Standards Authority say that adverts must be clearly distinguishable from editorial content.

[@AgiIeBeast]

He really got me.

[@nooneyouknow4312]

As Ralphie from the Christmas Story would say... "A crummy commercial?!?! .... Son of a Bitch!"

[@MarcusGPG]

24min talking in one take with no hickups or anything. You, Sir, are really really good at this.

[@thomassaldana2465]

I'm actually really impressed with the way a reference gracefully segued into an advertisement.

[@Rog5446]

The wooden club that he suggested was a Croquet mallet is actually a shillelagh, so this battle was between the home team Germany and the away teem the Irish. You're telling me about Pinker's book (The Better Angles of our Nature) The print is minuscule and over 1000 pages. My favourite piece of info in the book was the trick that nations use to recruit soldiers for a war. Just tell everyone that it will just be a skirmish and all over before Christmas.

[@lupo6899]

I came here to hear you pronounce Mecklenburg-Vorpommern and you never did it...

[@Kenshiroit]

Can you pronounce that???

[@are3287]

@@Kenshiroit its easy

[@zaonth1414]

@@Kenshiroit Mecklenburg-Vorpommern it's not that hard

[@dampsomsatan]

8:08 my future archaeologist would spot my broken toebones wich healed wrong, my broken teeth and probably sigs of a broken wrist i hope they go "he must have been a fighter" and not realise that i was just too drunk in my twenties

[@dELTA13579111315]

I'm sorry to hear that you fell off your horseless-carriage

[@siyacer]

Holy shit...

[@greylocke100]

Those with partially healed injuries might have been wounded prisoners who were just killed after a few days, as well.

[@hoosierhiver]

or the marauders came back and killed them in their huts while they were healing.

[@adg1355]

Or enemy soldiers finally prevailed some time after the 1st battle and killed the wounded - probably, they weren't fit to be taken as slaves

[@GentlemanOfFate]

That one is less likely since a slave would probably deserve no more than a knife in a throat/belly/heart. No one would bother crushing his bones like that to ensure his death.

[@sboat7264]

Most likely they died of infection perhaps a few days later after recieving the injury.

[@slukky]

Generally speaking, unless you were known to be of any value, you would not be spared. That practice persisted to about the 17th century A.D. It does cost to keep prisoners.

[@ChiyokoMcNair]

I found you a couple of weeks ago as a result of the Quarantine and I’m such a fan. Can’t stop watching! You’re awesome. Thank you for being you!

A follow up might be interesting. A lot of these wounds, including that hip and the flint arrowhead in the humerous have been examined more fully. It now seems that the hip injury was caused by a tremendously fierce blow from a spear and what appeared to be slight healing from around the arrowhead was actually pulverized bone from the hit, which likely was fatal.

[@roriksavant]

"They're embedded in metric over there" Oh, Loyd ^^

[@ou6277]

Yet the lengths of the clubs are still in inches...

[@armag3ddon]

Clearly then, the clubs must have been imported from Britain. Quite the trade back then!

[@FerociousSniper]

Whether it's embedded in metric or inches, it still hurts like the dickens.

[@AssassinAgent]

Thats probs the best ad in a youtube video ever.

[@lmaogottem5984]

your audible sponsorship techniques are getting better every video

[@ridespirals]

one of the few KZbinrs I'm happy to listen to the sponsor sections

[@danturner4709]

In my geezerhood I want the recipe for "Good Sustaining Soup".

[@ericjohnson709]

Love your channel. I think the levels of violence is really unknown and probably varies incredibly by tome and place.

[@TheAlasFelatio]

Slightly healed injuries: The winner of a knife fight gets to die in hospital.

[@annoythefish]

Never make the mistake of bringing a knife to a knife fight

[@andrewgilchrist1816]

That was the best, least-cringy segway into a sponsorship I've ever seen. I love it.

[@18Krieger]

I think that bronze swords are more likely to be found in graves than on a battlefield. Especially in bronze age central and north europe. I mostly saw them in rather "wealthy" grave context. Probably just a limited number of people had them. If someone with a bronze sword fought in a battle and died than its very likely that he is taken with his sword from the battlefield or someone took his sword because it was very valuable. Probably sword were just a sign of status and the wealthy fought mostly with spears and axes. At least that is what you can find in their graves.

[@noahmiller8042]

honestly im surprised we find as many swords as we do, considering their value as weapons and status symbles i'd find it likely that even their own kin would likely steal a sword from ole badass king grandpa's grave

[@noahmiller8042]

also fact about bronze if your bronze sword breaks you can have it reforged(aka recast) with no loss of metal not so much with iron infact its not so much that iron is better(early iron was the same as bronze) its the fact that iron is more common and well yeah you only need iron to make iron weapons and tools, whereas with bronze you need copper and tin and tins the real bitch to get

[@tecraman8100]

@@noahmiller8042 casting and forging are two different things

[@noahmiller8042]

@@tecraman8100 im aware and i even made that disctinction

[@MrChickennugget360]

i don't agree with the swords "were just a sign of status and the wealthy fought mostly with spears" is nonsense. If swords were just fancy decoration that would not have been as common in the Bronze age across cultures. Most likely they were not common enough to that every soldier could have them so most had clubs, spears, axes etc.

[@PaulojnPereira]

For some reason in my head when im hearing you is almost like im hearing John Cleese, maybe its the english accent or the subtle humor, in any case its very captivating. Thank you for all the effort and hard work you place in all your presentations.

[@rares7mih8]

Almost 600k subscribers, good for you man. Keep the good content up!

[@grugnotice7746]

A couple of worse possibilities that should have been considered about partially healed wounds mixed with unhealed ones: Torture and human sacrifice.

[@MrStoptheEU]

Best comment

[@piedpiper1172]

Human sacrifice gets such a poor shake. Have you me the Jims? I work with them and they are just the worst. They heat tuna in the microwave, always fail to return borrowed pens and insist on talking to me about their children! Honestly life with them was terrible, but then I read about human sacrifice and how the gods could help. So now my work life is much less distressing. Over all I’d recommend giving it the old college try before you knock it!

[@nikosantos1172]

Yes because warriors only fight one time???

[@Etropalker]

Obviously they found an awesome old club at the river, and 5 people said:"I saw it first!"

[@PSPMHaestros]

Clothes are just boneless armor

[@nardgames]

David Schmidt or he's from a nation where the u has been dropped, like the US.

[@will7254]

David Schmidt Aha, you almost fooled me into making an I'll advised decision by replying angrily to your obviously humorous jab at American English ( of which I am a native speaker ).

[@Vizabrine]

Can I get a uuuuhh 🅱️oneless armour

[@GadgetMart]

Cnt makes no sense?

[@MUJAHID56787]

Eduardo Moreno where u from that uses bone as amour u damn Neanderthal!

[@kilppa]

I love the ending. He has such a brilliant comedic timing, with that short pause, giving the face and "that'll do the job".

[@ottopike737]

"I'm not a man to use the word like oodles lightly."

[@AHaugaard]

Dark times?? Your head is shining more than ever!!

[@hoosierhiver]

metric times.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

I interpret this as a bald joke.

[@javanbybee4822]

HERESY you imposter

[@Tadicuslegion78]

I have the explanation: Between the times when the Oceans drank Atlantis and the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of. And unto this, Conan, destined to wear the jeweled crown of Aquilonia upon a troubled brow. It is I, his chronicler, who alone can tell thee of his saga. Let me tell you of the days of high adventure!

[@fabiannymands3704]

I re-watched that movie like 3 hours before I read this comment ^^

[@phreakazoith2237]

Conan's way leading him from Aquilonia to eastern Germany? Quite a setback for a wandering warrior is it not?

[@ianhenk]

​@@phreakazoith2237 Looking at Howard's maps, Aquilonia may well BE eastern Germany.

[@phreakazoith2237]

The more you know. Thanks. I did not know about Howard's deep thoughts concerning the geography of his stories.

[@FiendsLikeThese]

I thought German clubs just went 'oonz oonz oonz oonz tiss oonz tiss oonz"

[@6272355463637]

Not the bronze age ones, though.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

The more things change, the more they stay the same. They've just switched real percussion for synthesizers.

[@johnhbaumgaertner8948]

boots an' pants an' boots an' pants an' boots an' pants

[@lilitheden748]

You are one of these people that can make history (a topic some might presume to be somewhat boring) sound exciting. It’s the weird kind of English humour that does it I think. You are a natural teacher. I wish there were more people teaching children in this way. Making the subject interesting and fun. It is probably your immense love for all things ancient that makes you you 😄. I’m so glad I found your channel and have been learning about tennis last video.

[@AndreiNeacsu]

There is a 5th variant of the 4th type of wound (some healed a bit and some that did not): the wounded person was immobilized close to the battle location by the initial wounds that started to heal, but was killed a few days later by enemies returning to raid the battlefield. By that time, some had already died and some not. This is complementary to the speculation of the injured person returning to battle.

[@MWSin1]

Maybe not a battle, but a keg party that got out of hand?

[@Dylfunkle]

I've been to some shindigs that have turned out pretty great like that.

[@arthas640]

that reminds me of the Battle of Karánsebes, where Habsburg troops fought one another resulting in 1200 casualties, and it was all started with a keg party

[@50daysago14]

@@Dylfunkle It was an ancient orgy where they bashed their heads and continued to scull fuck each other.

[@223sushi]

The German farmers were trying out the deadly iro- i mean, bronze lotus technique for the annual Morris dancing competition.

[@GCurl]

Lloyd! Your skin is turning darker! :O Are you now finally transforming from brittish to greek? XD "Hoplitebeige"

[@amegagorilla]

I hate myself for laughing at this -_-

[@ralphkrattli6607]

Have to agree this is funny...

[@Henri.d.Olivoir]

Lindy can do his sponsor trasitions so good that I couldn't notice that it would start until the last possible moment

[@stevendouglas6593]

Maybe a rout, where the losers were slowed down attempting to cross the river and were slaughter in or near the river by the pursuing soldiers.

[@markusbuelow7871]

Sounds about right ! One clan on the move and attackt by local clan , and like you said; pushed to the river and killed - inclueding Female and children - during migration fleeing from starvation .

[@benpeters5851]

@@markusbuelow7871 What I am wondering is what is this migration the same reason why the sea people migrated towards Egypt?

[@kylebutler4439]

Incidentally we talked about the findings at Tollense in our Bronze Age lecture today. The research from 2015 (which I haven't looked at personally...) seems to indicate, that the combatants weren't just locals, but from the south and east too. Maybe the around Poland or the Czech Republic if you go by the type of bronze arrowheads that were found.

[@lindybeige]

Good stuff!

[@brianhowe1982]

Now that makes one wonder. Could be signs of long distance tribal raiding (the logistics would be nightmarish) or possibly signs of a bronze age trade network. I could be wrong though.

[@MsMi321]

Thing is many dont realize that slavs inhabited germany in those times and germans were in fact west of the slavs, who they then systematicaly pushed out over time. The idea I heard was that there was some sort of major conflict and that slavs from the lechite kingdom, which should be in air quotes because this is a MASSIVE speculation to have existed, came in as mercanaries to fight a battle, which is not unheard of in the past. Or possibly to cooperate defensively somehow. The size of the battle demonstrates that this was no simple raid or a raid at all but rather two relatively massive forces clashing with each other. (Avars also used slavic mercanaries when they were still in europe). Generally speaking this confirms the idea of early slavic and germanic settlement across germany, east being slavic and west being german, it also confirms that these were not any stone age primitives and I dont think those were clubs... that were shown there. Rather they had the capacity and did colonize and had some sort of civilization and structure allowing them to field that many men, and to fathom the logistics of it. Its quite amazing really, getting anything done with 100 people is a nightmare, imagine in the past with little to no instant communication!

[@ianhenk]

@@MsMi321We don't really know anything about the ethnicity of the cultures that lived there back then. Slavs are proven to have lived there much, much later, but 1230 BC? No one has the slightest idea how those people were related to the various ethnicities of later periods.

[@BigWillyG1000]

And/or mercenaries. We know the people at the same time with writing hired people from remarkably far away to fight for them. Pharoah's took mercs from the modern Sudan to fight in modern Syria. @@brianhowe1982

[@bearlyrandom4462]

Are you alright lindy? having to use the metric system like that must have been traumatizing.

[@tgpoppins3904]

bearlyrandom He's English and we use the metric system? He was probably talking about when the studies were conducted but the thing is we adopted the metric system in 1965?

[@catfish552]

Probably still in shock from the recent armour fitting. Turns out the armourer works in metric.

[@judasiscariot2648]

TGpoppins while that is true quite a lot of the time (tending towards most) we don't actually use it.

[@Hasharin14]

How the fuck is the imperial system more useful for physics when you can convert units in metric?

[@Hasharin14]

In metric, one milliliter of water occupies one cubic centimeter, weighs one gram, and requires one calorie of energy to heat up by one degree centigrade-which is 1 percent of the difference between its freezing point and its boiling point. An amount of hydrogen weighing the same amount has exactly one mole of atoms in it. Now tell me how the inferior imperial system is better for anything.

[@earth.otherwise8657]

AARG! (Except in Bronze Age German)

[@0ater]

that was probably the best audible ad ever created. kudos to you

[@JS-ob4oh]

I think you should update this video because the archaeological excavation of Tollense did not really kick into high gear until after 2010. The total number of dead is estimated between 750 to 1000 but this figure is deceptive because the victors of this battle would had buried their dead elsewhere leaving behind the remains of the defeated. The Tollense Battlefield is historically significant because up until its discovery historians did not believe battles of such size were possible and could not have occur in the region. The same historians had believed that large scale warfare could only have existed in the fertile crescent of Mesopotamia because that was where agriculture began and therefore could support a large population and therefore a large army. They believed elsewhere in northern Europe it was simply small nomadic tribesmen roaming the area. But the Tollense finding proves that there were a lot more people and they had the means to sustain a large population capable of fielding as many as 5000 soldiers for a battle which was not something seen or heard of until the Medieval period.

[@CustomCreations-co-uk]

You missed the most obvious conclusion... it was a bronze age A&E department (with a leave your weapon at the door policy)

[@Mirza-gt9rr]

You should make a Podcast

[@pressspan1414]

Very interesting. I happen to live not that far away from the Tollense river in the town of Greifswald. And I think in the local museum called Vorpommersches Landesmuseum are some some of the bronze items found there. When I have some free time I definetly go to check it out. Keep up the good work!

[@stuartrowe1079]

GIVE THIS MAN AN HONOARY DEGREE IN COMMON SCENCE .BEST YOU TUBE CHANNEL BY A LONG CHALK,

[@genghisgahan9623]

I enjoyed this discussion about audible, sponsored by an ancient battlefield

[@NefariousKoel]

It wasn't specifically the climate getting colder, which directly caused sudden spikes in resource scarcity (i.e. food) for ancient populations, driving them elsewhere into others' territory. The cold caused swaths of dryer climate which, in turn, meant less rainfall. More cold = drought. I recall seeing such cold-induced dry spells being cited as the primary cause for numerous past societal migrations, upheavals, and waves of invaders. The pre-historical expansion of the Sahara desert due to such long-term continental scale drought. Which ended up pushing north african people to the coast, and especially into the Nile river valley, thus creating the population density needed to start the ancient Egyptian empire. As another example, it's also been cited as the cause for the collapse of the Mayan civilization from it's long drought. There are other examples of such increasingly dry weather, due to colder regional climates in the "mini ice ages", causing swaths of people to pick up and move. Sometimes resorting to violent migrations (quite possibly the reason for the Sea People invasions of the Bronze Age Fall). Food supply was all; both wealth & weakness. Being far more violent times, it makes perfect sense that tribes would go where the food is, if their current location didn't have any. Doing so by force if need be. Sometimes causing a chain reaction of violent migrations.

[@nqaquila1333]

3:50 right one is analog to Irish Shilkelagh

[@lindybeige]

Yes, I was going to say that and forgot.

[@josephhooton7781]

From what i understand that style of club was common in a lot of europe untill quite recently, for example a similar style of club can be seen in roman mosaics

[@flyboymike111357]

All this talk of head wounds must have left you with some psychosomatic memory loss, eh Lloyd?

[@eldricgrubbidge6465]

Honestly that style of shillelagh is mainly a tourist thing. The ones from the old faction fighting era seem to just be sticks or sticks with a knob on the end, not mallet shaped.

[@NoFunNoHope]

I'd like to see Lindybeige and Dan Carlin have a chat with each other.

[@oliverlane9716]

I would like to see it, but not sure if i have that much time.

[@simonkennedy1815]

This video has ( and I say this in a world where advertising is ever present and usually terrible ) quite possibly the greatest and most seamless use of advertising I’ve come across in a very long time. Well done Beigy! Top class material as always!

[@bradeki2997]

For all its faults, I have to thank KZbin for bringing content creators like Lindybeige to our attention.

[@rohtvak3]

Life being nasty, brutish, and short is part of a quote from the very pessimistic English philosopher Thomas Hobbes. Almost missed the reference haha!

[@slukky]

Pessimistic? Pfft. Try Schopenhauer. Now THERE'S some good pessimism for ya.

[@JimFortune]

Can a Morris dance go horribly right?

[@bashkillszombies]

I have enough marks on my bones that an archeologist who may uncover me in a thousand years will know I'm an idiot.

[@wilsonhuber]

Tim, the 'toolman' Taylor ?

[@drharmonica]

Mr. Beige. You are by far the best salesman on the internet. Humorous yet at the same time making your product wanted. I listen to many KZbin bloggers who have to sell to stay afloat. They usua!!y are at best pedantic and more often annoying. You are a pleasure to listen to as you sell your sponsors product.

[@amarantnraz]

Thanks for saying ferric oxide! As a chemist, I appreciate it as you're acknowledging the amount of oxidation that occurs over the ages! :D

[@furchtegottgellert4865]

The world has come to a new low, when someone tells you "You can even share a book with a friend!" ...

[@Thane36425]

There is also the book "War Before Civilization," that makes some of these points. First that war was quite common in ancient times, to the point that it was a constant threat. Secondly that deaths in combat were a much higher proportion of the population than today. Indeed if a tribe were to handily lose just a few battles they might be too weakened to survive as a unit. There are other points as well, just that for every skeletal wound we see there were likely many more soft tissue wounds, especially to the gut, that would leave no trace, so the number of violent deaths are probably undercounted. It also makes the point that some scholars in the early 1900s set the bar high for what counted as "war." Essentially they applied them modern methods of war to primitive societies and if they didn't measure up, it wasn't really war. That is they considered that if a people didn't have a dedicated command and control group, logistics capable of extended campaigns, a medical corps, maybe cavalry, then they weren't a real military and they weren't engaging in war. Sure. Tell that to all the tribesmen going out on raids against their neighbors who were poaching on your turf, something that happened quite often, that they aren't engaged in war activities.

[@jarlnils435]

I have a book, called "Krieg im Mittelalter", or "War in the Middle Ages" or something like that in english, I don't know, mine is in german. The germans had no word for war until the 30 years war. The word itself comes from "kriegen", meaning to get something. You could say that the looting was so bad in that conflict, that they named war after looting. But it was concluded that war could only happen between nation states and professional troops. Every other kind of conflict was called Fehde, the german word for feud. In the middle ages they made a difference between the feud between kings who called their sworn subjects for help, and the feud between two knights. The smal and the big feud. Perhaps that's the same with england. I don't know. But on that base, I could argue that there was no war in germany during the middle ages. Because it was personal conflict. Even if the persons were kings.

[@joemeyers4131]

Even though it would just seem later but if with a shorter altered chronology 2200 bc was ancient enough . Then in early bronze age Mesopotamia there was the great battle long lssting involved between city of Uruk and a legendary place called by the Sumerians Aratta mentioned as in their texts on tablets . This battle in theory would help define what later weapons would be invented or just used when people were spreading out or migrating further out in several directions with the Middle East being the 'capitol' zone of civilization basically..

[@Thane36425]

@@joemeyers4131 By ancient times I meant even further back, such as hunter gatherer times. The book talked about evidence of wounds on skeletons from far back as well as modern evidence from hunter gatherer tribes that existed up into the 1900s. War in terms of raids, ambushes, and encounters seemed to happen a few times per years with larger battles less frequently.

[@joemeyers4131]

@@Thane36425 if you are not wanting to or just not the thing . If you dropped your box for a bit ss not in that box figuratively.. follow me .. prejudices and biases aside can you read in bible Job 30: 1 to 8 . I know people staunchly think it's mythical or made up but if you hesrd Job was written not in around 300 bc if claimed but at least by 4500 bc or bce and so if u read the 8 vs passage and none can see that anyway of course your business there .. read the verses slowly and carefully . Put aside your college degreed know how enouth tonhave an open mind ( i know basic college teach evolution so i got that ! ) but entertain the vss a bit . Based from civilized ancient society as you look at it enough . There was an old sociery by 2300 BC and earlier as known . So start from there at Job 30 verse one ..

[@joemeyers4131]

@@Thane36425 I add that to view it comparing how the most primitive like bands or clans live in any far off wilderness / word there is 'wilderness ' a tractless or uncultivated or barren or endless tree filled land ..can be in Hebrew . Places off from ancient communities further outwards in formerly unsettled regions with raw simplified resources .. caves or dry valley or rain washes . Or older remoter WADIS . Potential shelters or hide aways or oases or edges of wet tropical monsoonal regions ..

[@fangorn23]

@10:06 "well we dont know that he could have got drunk and fell off a roof" I like that the first thing that comes to mind is drunken buffoonery.

[@pavelskrabanek7064]

the first ever Lindybeige Video I ever watched. liked the academic feel of it and subscribed. since then I learned a thing or two. thanks, great channel.

[@evanmoellering7799]

"as for dating, it seems that 1230 BC is when all these bones suddenly got deposited all at once" >As for dating >Bones being deposited I know I'm abit late but damn man, that was subtle

[@michaelwynn8763]

GOOD VIDEO WELL PRESENTED EVENTS AT THE PEAK OF THE MINOAN WARM PERIOD WHEN TEMPERATURES STARTED TO FALL AND EMPIRES FELL ALL OVER THE WORLD

[@mooncabbagere]

More numbers please. What was the murder rate in medieval europe? What was the proportion of casualties in tribal warfare? Etc etc.

[@billcorr9450]

@Kevan Bianco Here is an article about estimating murder rates in medieval Europe. www.historyextra.com/period/medieval/life-violence-murder-crime-middle-ages/

[@are3287]

smaller than in modern brazil LOL

[@1337flite]

Q: ... 3 massive craters on his head what does this mean? A: he's a crap warrior - he should've become a bard or something.

[@BG-hp6mu]

It's absolutely criminal that you are not on the BBC. Love your videos.

[@StephiSensei26]

You make learning and listening so much fun. Thank you Lindybeige!

[@nicolastamm8269]

In the context of the global bronze age collapse, could this battle show signs of famine in northern europe, which could incite the emigration of european to the bronze kingdoms, or perhaps, explain where the sea people came from?

[@Stoic_Zoomer]

Nicolás Tamm probably i must say

[@montanus777]

the bones show that some people probably were millet eaters, while others weren't. since millet didn't grow that far north, it's very likely, that some of those people who died there, came from southern regions, while others were locals. if that's true, this means that southerners left their homeland to fight for northern territory, while the northeners didn't seem to have a reason to leave their homelands. so, if a famine was the reason for this battle, it was a famine in the south (maybe the alp region) - not the north.

[@caveymoley]

By the way. I LOVED built for the stone age, I would sign you for a series or two...If that was my game :(

[@TheWartitan]

Nice how you fit the audible ad in ^^

[@Ayoosi]

Hadn't heard of this battle before. Started watching a History Channel video about it. Saw this Lindybeige video in the recommended list. Immediately paused the HC video to watch this instead. That's saying something

[@HistoryNerd808]

Here's another good video about it. I saw it first with this video in the recommended for it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y17chqiIlKuSrbc

[@arthas640]

@@HistoryNerd808 i was about to post that same video until i noticed your comment =3

[@Scarecr0w_ofWaaagh_strawpies]

I have watched your pilot good Lindy and have to say even then ye had the charm of an orator. 👍👍 :)

[@somedude3448]

Another history channel recently did a video on this that claimed there was evidence for sword wounds

[@basicwindtec9780]

The 4th category, wound that has a little healing then another wound; Having lost and been taken prisoner, he was tortured to death over a few days, or weeks, of post battle fun and games held by the victors.

[@Mitaka.Kotsuka]

why the reamains are in the same river then? i can see your point but... have a big flaw

[@en6064]

Since the battle took place at a crossing, it is possible that combatant may have engaged in more than one battle in one time. Maybe there were multiple attempts to ford the crossing.

[@juststeve5542]

Ribbons probably wouldn't have survived. Bells however...

[@liquidorion9250]

I dunno why, but he heavily reminds me of Regis from The Witcher. Just the joyful way he shares knowledge from his seemingly endless bag of historical topics.

[@divytis19]

This is well done! I'm an archaeologist, and really enjoyed the talk