TIM BOWNESS Responds to my criticism of THE ALBUM YEARS | ELP, STEVEN WILSON and 'IS TIM PROG?'

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[@sspbrazil]

I’m glad Tim mentioned Keith Levene and John McGeoch, both innovative guitar players. R.I.P. to both.

[@jedtulman46]

Rah rah !

[@timparker7784]

You two are great! Never understood the disconnect or tribalism between prog and new wave sold by the press and accepted by fans. Pluralism's beautiful!

[@4ctmam]

Absolutely wonderful! I must say, with all my love of SW's music and creativity (been a fan for a quarter of a century now), he seems a bit too aware of his audience in interviews and it seems to be the same in the podcast too. I guess it's just the nature of having a higher profile but he seems to always go for what sounds good, whether he really believes it or there's any truth to it. There's a sense of a self-applied filter which often leads to serious inconsistecies. You don't get that with Tim and yourself. I love the flow of the conversation and it's not just random rambling either. Quite the opposite - very informative and thought-provoking. This should be a "regular side project" for you guys. Thank you Andy and Tim!

[@CarolH2O]

I agree, @4ctmam! Are you that fan guy I still remember? who has a radio station? Because I live in Connecticut.

[@CarolH2O]

What did you mean when you said SW is aware of his audience too much, etc? I didn't get that or what you meant...

[@4ctmam]

@@CarolH2O He'd often say certain things simply because he knows they fans will like that. For example, at a FB Q&A he said that he believed that the best music is always made by people who are musically illiterate. He made it very clear that it was just an opinion and was even a bit apologetic about it. Which would be fine in itself but then he regulartly names Frank Zappa and Robert Fripp as some of his favourite artists and biggest influences, both of whom have/had indepth klnowledge of music theory. So which one is it? I think he says those kind of things because they sound kind of cool to most fans.

[@brucebrown73]

Benny the Bouncer, Are you Ready Eddy, Nut Rocker, and etc. Those are fun songs; rock and roll letting their hair down. Why can they be so stigmatized as pompous, but when they relaxed they were placing throw away songs in albums. Critics are nuts. ELP were so good

[@mattlonnen8664]

Hi Andy, loved this chat - what a treat. I am inspired by Tim and your love of music - no snobbery here! Cheers Matt

[@syn707]

As an American, Jerusalem by ELP was the first time I heard the song. It is, in itself , a beautiful song. Because of that I love their version. Now when I hear it on Acorn’s movies, I feel smug that I know what that song is. I do their arrangement when I busk using my Roland guitar synth for the melody. Great interview you guys!

[@BBlooger]

Looking forward to the Tim Bowness gig!

[@apchsiri1156]

Are You Being Served reruns were regularly shown on America's Public Broadcasting System (PBS) throughout the 1980s. I was a fan as a somewhat anglophilic adolescent. And, incredibly, The Young Ones reruns were on MTV in the late 1980s, albeit at about midnight.

[@jdmresearch]

I'm so far from the UK, just visited it once -- gave a talk at the University of Warwick -- , English isn't even my main language.... and yet, I *love* these two UK (English?) guys with a good deal of English humor (humour?).... is that part of the English aesthetic?

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

it is yes

[@MichaelVLang]

Jerusalem is a lot of people’s intro to ELP. They bought it for whatever reason of the day. Carl plays it very orchestrally.

[@exex8215]

Fascinating discussion, and always interesting how people access the music that stays with them. I‘m a little bit older than both so remember the impact the Beatles had after my first pocket money went on the likes of Adam Faith and Billy Fury. In my teens I‘d often buy an LP simply based on the cover or a review in the Melody Maker, the influence of a friend or a band coming to town. What’s often forgotten or not realized today is is that a lot of bands in the early 70s were touring small provincial towns in the UK. There was actually very easy access to a lot of good music at probably the most innovative time in the history of pop and rock - and dead cheap too. Some of these bands were obviously booked well in advance and became huge later, some others disappeared but are still remembered fondly. If I named the bands I saw for very little money you‘d be amazed. I‘m not sure we called it prog back then, but I’m pretty sure there was plenty of critical disdain even before it reached that critical peak or slagging off point which Andy mentioned, but that was all part of the fun wasn’t it? I did have a girlfriend - not an older sister - who didn’t like “the jangly stuff“ because she was into soul and r&b. Later I saw where she was coming from, but at the time I found it was quite possible to like ELP, Genesis, Gentle Giant, King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull, etc. as much as Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Bowie, Roxy Music, 10cc, ELO, the Isley Brothers, the Temptations, the Faces, Slade, Sweet, T Rex, early disco - in fact just about everything as long as it wasn’t middle of the road.

[@ColdGrayMorning]

Please! Balance volume!

[@tim4123-y4g]

Good chat. You mentioned the Stranglers and their influences. Slightly interesting fact Hugh Cornwall and Richard Thompson were in the same band at school

[@CarolH2O]

Where does The Stranglers originate, because I have a memory from my teen years of a guy going around and putting cassettes of his (I assumed) music and flyers maybe too...this was in England, Isle of Wight. Didn't The Stranglers have a single called Strange Little Girl?

[@alternativepreacher4516]

Really sweet that Tim came for an insightful discussion.

[@GlennSmith-m2e]

The instrumental breaks of "Take A Pebble" are great. Very of their time, but in a good way. I say this as a Post-Punk Post Modern person without the " ironic" inverted commas. As Andy is bit of a class warrior, I'll point out that Greg Lake and Jon Anderson were both working class as were Japan and, by British definitions, Patti Smith. There's this odd idea in Blighty that if you show signs of book-learning or poetic tendencies you must be posh. Anyway, an interesting and entertaining listen. I was never a contrarian. I just liked records not many other people liked. This meant I was usually talking to myself on matters of taste. I think a lot of boys are like that.

[@richardsinger01]

Andy went to great lengths in his reaction to the Album Years to point out ELPs working classness. He suggested that the critics turned on them because they had the audacity to compose classically influenced music, calling it pretentious and inauthentic. How dare they play anything ambitious.

[@concatinate]

​@@richardsinger01And not only did ELP play this classically influenced music, they were immensely popular and successful doing it, introducing complex music to non-posh teenagers. To the perpetually aggrieved critics, this was contemptible!

[@PaulMcGarry-bo3jg]

Very good, but I still don't get Tim's disdain for Keith's solo in Take a Pebble. it's sublime stuff.

[@CarolH2O]

Oddly, I broke my collarbone but it was just an ER visit. I had X-rays and then they fitted a brace across. I was 7, I was living in the US by then, I hit my cheek and forehead and lost consciousness for a bit when I first fell... But I loved this session Tim and Andy, and I'm also a fan of SW, PTree, Yes, ELP, Pink Floyd, Tears for Fears, Beatles, and many others, I can't list them all here. I used to be able to write descriptions of music pretty well, though I don't seem to have that skill as much nowadays. I love some No-Man, but need to listen to them more...too much music, we are drowning in it! So The Album Years podcast is refreshing...love it all, as SW sings.......

[@CarolH2O]

And how could I forget, The Moody Blues!!!!!

[@miykaelp5284]

I respect both of your opinions on music, look forward to the "Pro wrestling" promos you cut on each other.

[@MrDjango1953]

Ian Anderson is one of the greatest singer songwriters of all time.He's the greatest English lyricist since Noel Coward. Its a tragedy that hes also one of the most iconic frontmen in Rock.He's always been a victim of his on stage persona.Its profoundly undermined what should be his true status as a brilliant songwriter and one of the best acoustic rhythm guitarists ever. If he was as introverted as Nick Drake he would have been acclaimed as a genius by now.When he leaves this mortal coil his obituaries will probably say he's most notable ''for introducing the flute to rock music'' which is about as relevant as saying Joni Mitchell's main contribution to popular music was popularising the hammered dulcimer....

[@garypowell1540]

To have fully lived the impact of progressive music you have to have been born around 53 and no later then 63, or you are coming to it from the wrong end. Younger age groups won't remember the time when cheap enough stereo high fi systems came onto the market and without that happening at the same time as Yes, Genesis, Crimson, ELP, Camel and all the rest the impact on the human mind can't possibly have been as profound or exciting. What was hitting our ears and entering into our consciousness at volume had never been experienced by any generation before us. It is one thing to listen to DSOTM or Selling England by the Pound in 1980 for the first time, quite a different one to listening to them for the first time in 1973 on your dads band new stereo system that just cost him the massive investment of £25 at the time. If you had richer parents you may have had a similar experience a few years earlier. You can't make albums like DSOTM and expect to sell many of them if the thing is being played on some piece of mono crap make in the mid 50s. Came the technology came the music.

[@j9whippetchick3]

Excellent point. 👍🏻

[@kennethnash6809]

Great guest Andy . I am a big fan of Tim's music . His original vocal style and delivery always evoke a relatable dreamlike mood ! Thanks

[@Rickengeezer]

Being in the States, I had never heard Jerusalem at all until BSS was released in 1973, and only later became dimly aware that it was a British hymn. Then, I heard some "church" versions of it (I think maybe first on TV, played at Charles and Diana's wedding?) and I thought, "what a wimpy version!! Call Greg, Keith, and Carl and get this tune done right!"

[@twowheelsgood28]

Great conversation. I never thought of how Jethro Tull Stormwatch is full of angst in parallel with punk. Very scintallating. Love Rhoda and Taxi.

[@blackmoofou6385]

What a treat I love Tim and love Andy, great chat and yes Tim has prog running through his veins all the noman albums and his solo work are superb and absolutely very Progressive.,

[@masonvankraayenburg]

All this Prog drama is saving KZbin for me. Love you guys, keep up the banter. Apologies, I may have made a snarky comment towards Steven in the other video, nothing serious all in fun. Big love

[@stefanogatti2992]

I was impressed by what seems to be a funny statement about the “too long solos”: never know that until 1969 they were an asset, but after 1970 they became not so good, even tedious or dated. I would like to know what they think about The Nice’s Elegy which included several long solos. That album was published in 1971, but was made in 1969: so it should be considered good or bad? Anyway I suspect all these comments and videos sort out as a mock defense of ELP. A prog youtuber cannot stop speaking about them because anything you say (criticism, mock defense, like in this case) immediately raises a big debate from those who yell from both factions: ” How dare you to bash ELP” and from the other side, with foam ad their mouth: “You were too lenient, ELP is rubbish!” The climate is apt to become very Benny-the-bouncerish.

[@ralphmuller6040]

A very stimulating conversation.

[@brianoakley980]

I think to see them Live when they were young was to understand them totally, they really were the very best prog band live excitement wise...i saw Pink floyd same year, the contrast was seismic, Welcome back my Friends indeed, They were Often B Bumble and the Stingers progged to high heaven! I was lucky enough to see them in 71 where they performed Pictures AND Tarkus...I mean come on does it get any better?

[@cm8880]

Londoner here - I booked tickets for me and a mate after watching this. (Sorry - only posting this to tell everyone, coz you asked mr Edwards - or was that on another video? I dunno)

[@davidwylde8426]

Great guest. Knowledgeable and seems very nice guy. Good discussion. I shall now have to go and explore his back catalogue.

[@AetherPavilion]

In political parlance, when two allies stage a public “fight” for strategic purposes, it’s often referred to as a pillow fight. Not too many feathers flying in this Tim-Andy feud. Good discussion. Can we get Steven a pillow to join the fracas in a future main event?

[@jdmresearch]

Tim Bowness is a pretty reasonable guy....

[@davidbottomley1929]

Speaking of Herbie Mann - back in 1973, when I was 11, my dad brought home the Herbie Mann LP Family of Mann - First Light. That was first time I knowingly heard Steve Gadd and Tony Levin.

[@VaiRoth]

Happy to hear the brief mention on “Live and Let Die” , I’ve always loved that track. Only just realised how left of centre it is despite being a radio hit, it includes a once off orchestral “baddie” flourish sandwiched between the instrumental/orchestral riff. Said riff is as catchy as the sung melody, possibly more so. Dare say stylistically, it could sit on an ELP album. Fantastic

[@eyesofchild]

Loved this! More more! Bravo bravo! 👏 🙌 🎉

[@loucontino4804]

Ah Burning Shed, the finest Prog Distributor for me. They genuinely put the customer first. I receive my music in just a few days and always well packed. Did Andy remove his hat to intimidate Tim by showing him a full-head of hair raised 100mm off the cranium? I think he did.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

Yes...it always works.

[@ianchristian7949]

"That was one of the advantages of him dying" is the most Andy thing to date.

[@danfan4707]

It’s a Bowness Bonus!

[@devereauxclandestine1272]

Really enjoyable conversation Andy. I hope Tim finds the time to come on again. I am a bit miffed to find out that I'm not as cool as I thought I was because I only have the Velvets 'Banana' album! As for 70's sitcoms 'It Ain't Half Hot Mum' would have to be in the mix. 'Keep them shoulders back Lovely Boy.'

[@kevinmyles6369]

That Move track's Blackberry Way, their first hit..👍🏻👍🏻

[@seanarthurjoyce7366]

Love Power Windows by Rush. "The Big Money," "Territories," "Mystic Rhythms," all creative peaks with a smooth synthesis of the keyboards of the day with the band's hard rock sound. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder," as the old adage has it.

[@JohnnyRecently]

Tim and Andy? Excellent pair.

[@hansmagnusmalcolmsen9354]

Steven Wilson is a great re-issue producer and engineer

[@danjack-son4871]

I am Canadian and grew up on British sitcoms from the 70s so I get it.

[@andrewfraser4376]

We know Are You Being Served very well here in Australia.

[@lupcokotevski2907]

Here in Australia, we got tons of English TV in the 60's and 70's: all the sitcoms, comedians, Coronation Street, cop shows, the Big Match, Val Doonican, Harry Secombe, etc. I loved the The Two Ronnies and Dave Allen, and Callan and Fawlty Towers. I have an On the Buses board game.

[@wahid-lg1kk]

Same in Canada... Monty Python every night, the despicable Two Ronnie's, etc.

[@ultrasignificantfootnote3378]

Okay but Golden brown is not in 5/4 but in 3/4 and 4/4 .

[@sspbrazil]

Johnny “Guitar” Watson has some great album covers too.

[@WalterSobchak1000]

Fair play to Tim coming on

[@mdlatham]

Andy, you’ve really stepped up your game recently. Bravo

[@SubTroppo]

The nazi memorabilia anecdote cracked me up. "...Just thick." got me too. If you can detach your music listening from shallow cultural & fashion trends it can free the mind. ps I really appreciate the pair of pink(?) knickers behind Andy in the backdrop photo of the cast of 'Are You Being Served?'.

[@staggerlee6794]

Had ELP added some reggae to their repertoire they would have been true music gods. 😏

[@mrkinski]

Rhoda! That brings back some memories. We had a colour tv, so middle class! Ps Tim’s “Powder Dry” is a great album.

[@ryanmckinnon6465]

Jerusalem is amazing!

[@markperry9427]

Excellent video 👍 Any chance you could do a wee tour and play Aberystwyth Uni?

[@ultrasignificantfootnote3378]

I have said it many times and Tim and Andy seem to agree with me, that the thing in itself always goes beyond itself.😅

[@rickeaston8963]

Looking forward to the gig...

[@pjono77]

So looking forward to the London gig.

[@jdmresearch]

Wow, what a great band!

[@PaulDevenny]

You guys in that band with Tim ...are something else ...full stop

[@JeffCooper10538]

Blackberry Way not Mulberry Way! 😊

[@scottpheby9886]

Already got my tickets.😘

[@miykaelp5284]

Didn't know you guys played together, very cool .

[@robertunwin1148]

I do feel that Keith Emerson had a very underappreciated - and quite brilliant! - sense of musical irony. Similar to Zappa the way he would play a passage of very harmonically sophisticated and contrapuntally intricate music and then immediately follow it with, say, a, stock Blues or boogie woogie phrase was deliberately and expertly done. Yes, there are loud, "bombastic" moments and other so-called artistic "vulgarities" but given the overall creative context these sections are clearly music "in inverted commas" as it were. Critics were falling over themselves to praise Lou Reed and David Bowie for their dryly sardonic lyrics but this kind of playful, purely musical ironic juxtaposition seemed to go completely over their heads.

[@kratino]

The Beatles did it!

[@kratino]

Remember that Greg Lake wrote the lyrics for those novelty songs. A master of irony, among so many other things. All three members had a great sense of humor. Very different styles, but very funny guys.

[@Michael-xr5yx]

Great discussion!

[@benfoldsfunf4517]

The one berfore the Banana album? Now that's a hard album to find.

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

I hate Velvet Underground. I thought White Light/White Heat came before. What do I know...

[@isashax]

Interesting and funny chat! Being unemployed, do I count as poor? Can I have a free ticket? 😉 Nah, just kidding! I like buying my tickets and helping the bands. Btw, I would love to go to the September gig, but I bought the flights and everything for December, so I will see you then instead. I would have preferred a headline gig than a festival, though...

[@RIPMMD]

Yippee ki yay Andy

[@myworms]

All I know is that Power Windows is excellent 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@hansmagnusmalcolmsen9354]

Great video messr Nerds.

[@harrynewiss4630]

Tim and Steven are entertaining and informative.

[@paulmenard7936]

Fun chat

[@stevesmith3990]

Great conversation although I wish that Tim had been allowed to talk more..

[@pattardn]

To me, critics are failed artists who harboured grand designs that never materialised. (When fans of real music saw through them, they went to a Pet Shop to flush their nasal material in...)

[@francisanosissi1]

Yes.there's always been that...we just try not to burst any bubbles..

[@kratino]

Tim, you lost me when you agreed with Steven about Pirates, which I think is a f'ing masterpiece.

[@bowness1]

In truth, I don't dislike it in the way Steven does. I can hear its charms.

[@philaldridge4178]

I would love to come to your gig but unfortunately I live in New Zealand. So that ain't gonna happen.

[@blackmoofou6385]

Can't wait! Warrington for the win!

[@richard127gm]

John Inman = Mr. Humphries.

[@markgatland977]

In pretty much every interview that I've done where I'm asked what Progressive means to me I always answer, "well, it's literally progressing...ie, moving forward"...and that's what I get from Tim's music, especially the new stuff from this forthcoming album. It's a certain restlessness and willingness to try everything and discount nothing that makes it progressive. Well, that's my tuppenuth, anyway 😊

[@keithdawe5512]

so looking forward to this one. Sorry for snitching (not sorry)

[@patrickselden5747]

Veedon Fleece ROOLS!! ☝️😎

[@lamecasuelas2]

Tim Is a cool guy!

[@madf00bar15]

Okay, you got Tim, now go for Steven! He has a new album on the way.

[@bowness1]

So do I. Powder Dry on September 13th. Steven's new album is due in January 2025. He may or may not be open to 'the Andy experience'. 🙂

[@TheSearchingSongwriter-o1w]

Question. I agree that Punk has things in common with Prog. But in your opinion, is there a visible line between Prog rock and something like Gloria Gaynor and Donna Summer? ( which I loved just as much as Prog Rock in the 70s.

[@bowness1]

For me, there's a strong link between late 1960s/early 1970s 'progressive soul' (Marvin Gaye, Undisputed Truth, Temptations, Rotary Connection, Stevie Wonder and many more) and late 1960s/early 1970s 'underground rock'. I also think there's a connection between Donna Summer's mid-late 1970s concept albums (and side long suites) with Prog and Progressive Electronic (Tangerine Dream, Ashra etc etc). If nothing else, the scale, the ambition and the conceptual elements.

[@TheSearchingSongwriter-o1w]

@@bowness1 Thanks. You’ve made some great connections there.

[@JimBagby74]

No Jerusalem?!! CANCELED

[@AndrewjWilson]

I still love Adam and the Ants.

[@rockodilechannel3509]

I'm glad you said it. I hate Benny the Boucer too. But, Brain Salad Surgery is a masterpiece that makes up for everything.

[@johndrx165]

Remember, the audience was listening and imbibing, so solo sections were welcome as long as they were talented.

[@nickpatten5263]

Andy, what's with the hat and the 'Are you being served' background' every time I listen to Pink Floyd now I am thinking of that, what a trigger. Love both you guys so I'm willing to move past that. Thanks for interesting content, keep it up. Us old progheads need some real commentary on music unlike some of the other channels on KZbin and you fulfill our needs well done..

[@AndyEdwardsDrummer]

I did it to ruin DSOTM for everybody

[@nickpatten5263]

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Nice one. Thanks again mate. Best regards from Tasmania Australia 🇦🇺

[@ianchristian7949]

I'm poor. Will Tim pay my train fare from Sheffield. Return please.

[@eximusic]

I love cat fights.

[@kratino]

The Nice were punk long before punk.

[@bowness1]

I don't disagree.

[@ColdGrayMorning]

Zappa too had lot of silly humor

[@garypowell1540]

As a general rule Andy they were and likely still are thick. Prog was College or 6th form boy music. Being a swat with ache was not essential to being a Genesis fan but it certainly helped, only one look at their audience would remove any doubt. Having a strong spiritual and small c conservative nature also went with the average Prog fan as well as good crop of ache scars and O'levels. One thing prog did not have at anytime during the 70s was so much as a milligram of street cred and was highly unlikely to help a chap pull under any circumstances. Therefore if a chap wanted that sort of thing he hid his prog stuff at the back, bought himself a black leather jacket and upfronted his Purple, AC-DC and Sabbath albums that he rarely played, as at least this gave the guy a fighting chance of a leg over or a bit of sticky. Also as a general rule the few number of girls who were into prog did not do that sort of thing out of marriage or without a least a ring on their finger. Trust me most girls were not sluts in those days, however much we might like to believe otherwise, while a few real goers gave the rest a very bad reputation. To be honest I am not so sure that matters have changed that much since the early 70s. Indeed girls and boys may have become even less permissive then we were over time.

[@ragnaviussnorgoborgoskagen5986]

LOL fucking awesome hat

[@brandon1351]

Tim could of had a side career as an voice actor

[@brandon1351]

His impressions crack me up

[@sspbrazil]

Love the Album Years and love Tim’s music. I think both he and Steve were fair about Trilogy, it’s my favorite ELP album, but I do agree with what Steve said about them, their stuff doesn’t really hold up all that well now. They were a band of their time for sure, I don’t really go back and listen to them anymore sadly and I loved them when I was young and discovering music.

[@stugerson4838]

Are you going to play the Cavern in Liverpool??

[@RobGriffin-h2k]

What's up with cowboy hat?

[@NP-ip3nj]

It's nice you can have a conversation about it, and I genuinely love prog, but ELP are rubbish.

[@bobsbigboy_]

Communism needs to come back