Tim Lerch and Dr. Geoff Yule - A wide ranging conversation about Guitarists and Hand Health

[@TimLerchGuitar]

My heart goes out to all of you who have commented about your difficulties. I will eventually respond to each comment personally but for now know that I admire your courage and perseverance in spite of your struggles. Thank you for sharing about your challenges.

[@necroticpoison]

The following could help: ~ Using 9's or even 8's (also hybrid sets). ~ Playing a 24.75” instead, and a thin and comfortable neck. ~ As low an action as you can get while notes still work, even accepting a bit of string buzz. ~ Warming the hands, and being aware of / lightly using muscles before you play. ~ Only play as much as is needed, rest in between playing in a session, focus on minimising the flexion of muscles, fretting only as much as is required. ~ Turning the gain or volume up so you can pick lighter, or using a compressor pedal especially. ~ Straitening the wrists and using compression-wear like a sweat band (can wear up on forearms too).

[@outinacornfield]

What an excellent idea, Timothy. You and Dr Yule add a badly needed dose of dignity to KZbin, both content and visuals. Thank you.

[@oneloveSURFISTA]

It's interesting that Dr. Yule mentions the psychological aspect of physical pain. Some years ago I developed chronic pain in various regions of my body, including both my wrists. I had to stop playing for 2~3 years and ended up pretty debilitated at age 21-24, to the point of not being able to walk. (I was more depressed for not being able to play guitar than to walk). No traditional medical procedure worked for me. Icing, painkillers, corticosteroids, physical therapy... It turned out that the whole thing was... "psychological". It was basically an anxiety response. I stumbled across a book called "Healing Back Pain" by Dr. John Sarno and it healed my pain completely. I believe having a strong spirit and a balanced mind is the best way to prevent these kinds of health issues.

[@rowanuheguitar2347]

I had 4-5 years of wrist pain from playing guitar. Just like you, no conventional medicine really helped. I also stumbled across John Sarno and a month later, no pain problems. And still no problems 8 years later despite playing guitar 20-30 hours a week. It’s pretty incredible - Years and thousands of dollars on medical care to help and what finally worked was a $12 book on Amazon Kindle

[@oneloveSURFISTA]

@Tharshan Ruben Ravichandrarajan There are two other books. "The Mind-Body Prescription", and "The Divided Mind". I didn't check them out but i'm sure it's worthwhile. There's a lot of content on KZbin, including Dr. Sarno's Interviews and documentaries, which is worth checking out too

[@jimicunningable]

Wow, thank you for this. I just got out of a traumatic period punctuated with an injury. The injury left me hopeless to play as it legit hurt to begin with. As part of just caring for myself I found a better less drama filled place along the way. My neck can play plenty of guitar now if I'm smart about it. It was trying to heal in a toxic situation that was hopeless, not my neck. Great share. I felt silly, tyvm.

[@Dtruthseek]

After dealing with pain from worn out cartilage in my fretting hand for several years, I opted for a CMC arthroplasty. It is a painful and intrusive procedure that takes a long time to heal. Now on the other side of it by several years, I can play guitar again. It is not a perfect solution. I cannot play any guitar except my low-action electric for any length of time and do not own any except it. But my playing time went from an hour a week to up to ten or twelve if I push it. That is a huge thing to me that I thank and praise God for.

[@michaelcummings8119]

Im 66 professional .play acoustic fingerstyle jazz and classical. Been using kate Montgomery hand balm for 20 years Shes a hand therapist and wrote a book " end your carpel tunnel pain" another great book " the natural classical guitar " by lee ryan. I play on average 4 to 6 hours daily without any problems....the hand balm is amazing

[@fretprints]

Great information. Such an important topic. Thanks for sharing this.

[@bradsims5116]

My hands aren't healthy at all. Every time I play, they catch on fire. Thanks for this very important video.

[@SteveHubbardGuitar]

I've been dealing with De Quervain's Syndrome for close to 2 years now. The root cause was overuse, mostly due to drumming, and drumming with somewhat poor technique. I did play guitar on top of that, which I'm sure worsened the situation. I tried to use the time at home during the pandemic to advance my playing, and unfortunately I overdid it. As someone who obsessively researched, tried things, and received treatments, the only things that worked for me were the following: 1) Using a proper brace, which keeps your wrist and thumb in a fixed position. You want to prevent the stretching of the tendon which caused the issue. 2) Eventually doing range of motion and strengthening exercises. 3) Shockwave therapy, in particular, when the issue became chronic. 4) Deep tissue massage in the forearms, as tightness in the forearms and hands can be a part of the cause. 5) Wearing athletic tape, simply to be more aware of the position of my thumb and wrist. Early on, stretching only made the issue worse, laser therapy did not help, and icing did nothing other than temporarily relieve pain. I dug into hot-cold therapy, and there's no evidence to suggest it helps. I went to A lot of these treatments have very weak science behind them, so don't expect to find some sort of miracle. These injuries suck, and there isn't a single, perfect solution out there. Another important finding was regarding inflammation. This is how the body heals injuries. Inflammation following an acute injury is natural - why do we try to combat it? Taking naproxen or even getting a cortisone shot only offers temporary relief. Some research even suggests it hinders the healing process. The takeaway here is to avoid interfering with the bodies natural healing process. Heat will provide relief, and improve blood flow.. That's about it. If the condition becomes chronic, escalate to something like shockwave. There is also PRP therapy, if you have access to that type of treatment. I wasted dozens, if not hundreds of hours trying to fix a problem that takes time to heal. Find a good physio therapist quickly and follow their guidance. Also, let this be a reminder that nothing is permanent, and there's no guarantee that you'll be able to play for your entire life. Enjoy what you have while you still have it! Music is an amazing gift and we all need to cherish it while we can.

[@swedeinla]

I have been dealing with this for about a year and a half, arthritis in both thumbs. I did cortisone shots that worked, and then they stopped working. I have done massage, pills, sports therapy etc etc for my thumbs. Last thing was my doctor said I need surgery.... I fixed it myself by going on a carnivore diet. Problem solved. I'm not saying that is the way to go, but it healed me, amonst healing other semi permanent things I have been dealing with.🙂👌

[@pinsk94]

Was it 1st carpal metacarpal joint?? Thanks

[@4gcole]

Thank you Tim for this info! Very helpful. I have problems in the left thumb joint at the base of the hand. So much so I stopped playing to rest my hand. This had a positive effect but still not complete. I decided to try physical therapy. I had less than 55% of grip strength...my right hand has 100 lbs grip strength but my left only had 40 lbs. I couldn't hold things like a glass or half gallon of milk. Well it has been 6 months of twice a week therapy doing various treatments but now I have 90 lbs of grip strength in my left hand and once I am warmed up I can play again. I played a 5 hour new years gig last night pretty much pain free. Huge difference :) I say this so people know that physical therapy can help with your hand problems. Oh by the way I am 70 years old and have been playing for about 55 years. Thx Tim love your channel!

[@rogerkunkel1920]

I manage my tendonitis problems with regular deep massage of the forearm muscles, stretching, wearing a wrist brace (only at night), and taking anti-inflamitories when it's really acting up. I work on a computer all day. I paniced and thought it would only get worse, but it can improve.

[@davemassie3726]

I'm 69 and retired 3 yr's ago. So i've been playing about 25 hour's a week and 4 week's ago started having wrist and hand pain. Thanks for this video Tim & Jeff. Also some finger yoga vid's helping.

[@nosoyninja]

Thanks!

[@tedbear2441]

Thank you both so much.

[@Slackdog22]

Thank you sensei! Your story about sliding your finger up and down the "B" string brought back a beautiful memory from my childhood. In the early 50s, my favorite uncle returned home from military service with a Stella acoustic. He knew a few chords and sang. It was amazing to me. I soon figured out how to play "Tom Dooley" by sliding up and down the "A" string. God, that was delightful!!!! And the beginning of a life of music for me. At 75, I find it still it delightful; not necessarily easy any more. Thanks for thinking of us and generously sharing on all levels. Dave

[@williamstanford7994]

The Stella plywood guitar-- they should have been illegal. See Mason Williams song "$13 Stella." He learned to play on one just like me.

[@Slackdog22]

@@williamstanford7994 Great tune! Spent many hours on my uncle's Stella. I was too young to know how bad it was. To me it was magic.

[@joerogers8354]

My first guitar was a donated Stella. The best sound I ever got out of it was when I threw it down the back stairs.

[@CRP2426]

Thank you for talking about this issues. Would be great for a future conversation about Carpal Tunnel and Cubital Tunnel syndrome. I had a really bad case of Cubital tunnel about 7 months ago and it was depressing and frustrating. it is slowly getting better. in my experience Collagen, Hydration and Anti-inflamatory foods like (Turmeric, Ginger, Garlic, Strawberries, etc.) Really helps. My best wishes to all, Stay Healthy! Thank you!

[@seanutzo]

Thanks

[@williamstanford7994]

Thanks for the video. I've played the guitar since 1961 and earned two music degrees in classical guitar performance. The reason I bring that up is that an awful lot of practice went into that with the result that I have had nine surgeries on my hands, and I have never received a word of criticism about my technique. Nevertheless, I had carpal tunnel and trigger finger operations galore. Repetitive motion injuries were the diagnosis. I'm completely healed now and retired, so no complaints. I had a marvelous surgeon, and I have no visible scars. I've never had tendonitis though. Self-taught guitarists should beware of the baseball bat left hand grip so common among "ear" players. My advice would be to acquire a good book on classical guitar technique and spend the time to retrain your hands. In the long run it will be worth it.

[@EasyBreather000]

Hello William, Thanks for sharing your experiences. What good book/s on classical technique would you recommend for this purpose? KRs, E

[@williamstanford7994]

@@EasyBreather000 "The Art of Classical Guitar Playing" by Charles Duncan would be an excellent starting point. It may be out of print, but you should be able to find a copy on the web if it is. Good luck.

[@EasyBreather000]

Hello again William, thanks for this recommendation, it's very much appreciated. I found it on Amazon, still available in print or as a kindle version. After reading a little of it on preview I've decided to buy a copy ! I'm sure it'll be very useful to me on my journey. Thank again for your help and happy 2023

[@paraverparaleer7858]

Thank you Tim and Dr Jeoff. Excellent information gents. I have carpel tunnel on my right thumb/wrist for 7 years now due to guitar playing and mostly using mouse with computer, long hours as a photographer doing post prod. Been avoiding surgery and found help with exercises, stretching, rotating hand/wrist, using brace at night that keep thumb-hand-wrist in line. Also applying cold-heat helps a bit. I am 70 yrs old and playing since 9. I do believe the joy of music and playing has been the best medicine of all.

[@mooseymoose]

I had hydraulic dissection done on mine, very effective and non invasive.

[@howardemerson457]

Tim, thank you and Dr.Geoff Yule so much for taking the time & making the effort to produce such a helpful video! I had tendonitis in my left palm in 1971. I got a cortisone shot almost immediately, and although it fixed my pain problem I needed to figure out the CAUSE of the problem. It turned out that it was the neck of the guitar I was playing: It was too small for my large hands! I had nothing to hold onto! I noticed, however, that when I'd pick up smaller 12 fret Martins of the day (00-21, etc) that it required way less effort despite the neck being huge. My hand now had something to curve around naturally, thus making the angle of my fingertips naturally meet the string/fret contact points. Additionally I noticed that larger fret wire made it even easier to press because there was no need to also be pressing the fingertips against the fret board. I'm now 71 and have not had any further hand issues. All my electrics (strung .013-.054) now have Warmoth necks with 1.75" nut width, boat-neck profile & Stainless steel 6100 jumbo wire. My acoustics mainly have 1 & 13/16" necks patterned after my 1930 Gibson L-5, which has an extremely large rounded V profile.....anyway.....thanks again for the this video!

[@Jethlin2020]

I'm now 51 yo, and have been playing guitar for about 35 years. I have mild arthritis which can be bothersome at times, but I have had some other major setbacks over the past 2 years that have been difficult to overcome. Firstly, I had a full rupture of my bicep of my fretting hand arm. That took about a year before I could even consider picking up my instrument again. Once I healed and was back to playing, I sliced through the thumb of my picking hand, fully rupturing the tendon. I have regained most of my range of motion now but it was a long road. Both instances were freak accidents. I take a good while to warm up my fingers and stretch the muscles of my forearms both in flexion and extension as most muscles of the hand are actually located in the forearm with long tendons that stretch to the fingers. Great video!

[@frankenzerillo8723]

Great video Tim. Thank you. I recently damaged my left index finger in a carpentry accident. I sustained serious damage to the DIP joint of my index finger. Fortunately I have been seeing a very respected hand surgeon. Not sure how it is going to heal and function in the future. After playing guitar for more than 50 years, this is obviously a serious situation you me. The information and insight provided in this video was a blessing.

[@Theweeze100]

I work in the trades and am near retirement. I would always hope that somehow if an injury occurred, music would still come out of me and some other form. Are used to play bass and seven guitar and I know it doesn’t require as much physical dexterity. Hopefully you can still make some awesome music, sir, but I feel your pain.

[@pan60]

thank you!

[@dvkerner96]

Physical therapy, daily stretching, and PRP injections (if necessary) are great for alleviating joint pain and restoring joint function.

[@HaErBeSo]

This made me realise that there is even more reason to have a well set up guitar.

[@toreilly100]

Thank you Tim and Dr. Geoff!! This was gold.

[@titobattaglia7932]

Wonderful video Tim and Geoff! Thank you so much!

[@RegieFilho]

This could not have come to me at a better time. Thank you so much.

[@TheMinorFallTheMajorLift]

Such a good discussion and one that could benefit players of all ages. If you get the good doctor back for a 2nd episode, is there another discussion around the tendons in the forearm as they relate to repetitive gripping?

[@miguelescalera626]

“Dig it for the moment that it is” I love that, I don’t have many of those ailments yet 😌🤞🙏. even so, this information is very useful. Thank you for posting. Happy 2023 🎉

[@WashingtonJohnson]

Aw man we all need more information like this as older players! I have stopped playing mostly because my hands and joints ache all the time. I believe I hand a severed nerve in my hand around my thumb muscles. So when I do play I often move my thumb position around to keep my left hand relaxed as possible. Right hand is also has osteoarthritis as diagnosed by my family doctor. Who didn’t bother to recommend anything. We have to self advocate for our overall health these days . Great interview Tim !

[@cptntwang]

This is pure gold. I shared this on the Tdpri telecaster forum.

[@donmilland7606]

Yes we are getting older. So far I’m relatively healthy but I’m afflicted from my military experiences and had to stop working as a lawyer. Now I’m able to relearn music. But it can be a struggle and I take it one day at a time. I strive to learn something each day. Lucky for me, you provide so much ear pleasing material. I bought you giant sips mug to express my appreciation of your work and philosophy.

[@cubistone]

This timely topic is fearful to players of certain ages--the dreaded physical deterioration that prevent them to keep on playing. The arthritis in my hands seem to migrate from one joint to another or one finger to another. It has been going for a few years. What's curious is that the thumbs never have any problems. Thank you Tim and Dr. Yule.

[@LionelAlbert]

Excellent ! I figure out I had a wonderful guitar teacher, I think she didn't know anything about anatomy but she taught without a world the right things to do. I'd studied classical guitar for two years with her, the few things I learnt still help me today.

[@paulstewart1502]

I'm 65 now and retired, plenty of time to practice and play for the joy of it now. All would be great if it wasn't for arthritic pain creeping into my right thumb (picking hand) along with some tingling/numbness in the tips of my index finger and thumb on my left (fretting) hand. Lots of good information here, things to consider - things to do & not do. Much more than I knew before I watched your talk with Dr Yule. Thank you Tim!

[@No_Use_For_A_Name1981]

Take a look at Chris Poland hand as well for one of those folks who overcame an injury and became a mind blowing player.

[@adambehrens7504]

Thanks for a great interview. Such an important topic. Years ago I developed tendinitis in my left hand and elbow and had to stop playing for about 18 months. I attended the Musicians Clinic just outside of Toronto and there were all sorts of musicians getting treatment there from young players like me about to go off to music college to highly experienced career musicians. Everyone’s situation and circumstances are different but for me I started taking Tai Chi lessons which helped and technique lessons with a studio musician who was classically trained. He told me I was playing with way too much tension, wasn’t breathing when I was playing. We also talked a lot about posture. I only had about 2 or 3 lessons with him but I think the Tai Chi and those lessons are the reasons I’m still playing today. The only time I don’t feel right in my hands is when it’s very hot and humid out. Not sure why that is. There’s no pain, just feel really stiff and tired in my hands when I have to play. Been like that for decades so it’s not a recent thing.

[@CitAllHearItAll]

This is a great episode. Thank you.

[@Reliable_Session]

Hi Tim and Geoff. I usually refrain from commenting but I just wanted to explain my appreciation for this video. I am a 27 yo guitarist ( I also play the drum kit which has complicated my hand difficulties further) I’ve been suffering with extreme pain in my left hand for approx five years. I often go see a masseuse and ask for a massage in between my left thumb and index finger. They look at me like I’m crazy. Anyway I believe this video will be really useful to me . Thankyou again

[@TheBoboMaker]

At 63 with a history of rheumatoid arthritis in my family, plus a job that was very hard on the hands. This video gave me all sorts of good advice and hope. I retired early last year because I could no longer do my job. It took 6 month before I could play again on a regular basis.

[@tater9384]

I did a quick YT search and didn't come up with any Dr. Geoff Yule videos. I believe he could provide an excellent YT channel on his own!

[@TimLerchGuitar]

He and I will do another very soon to answer many of the questions that have been posted in the comments.

[@Mdjagg]

As a long time guitarist (21yrs), medium time rock climber (6yrs), I highly recommend hangboarding aka fingerboarding for finger and hand strength. It has taken me over several plateaus and my hands have never felt better and stronger.

[@Rod_Daigle]

Thanks for this great video on an important subject that concerns many. You cover some fantastic recommendations for relieving hand stress. For me, the carnivore/ketovore diet is another solution and will be for those with auto-immune issues. In selecting a proper diet for YOU one size does not fit all however one change that will enhance anyone's woe (way of eating) is to cut out the harmful foods. What is a harmful food? Anything that comes neatly packaged and has an ingredient list with more than three items on it. I practice what I preach. Im in my late sixties have been a 90/10% carnivore (10% fruit, veg, or dairy) for over a year now and it has made a huge difference in my hand pain level when playing guitar. Given a choice I would rather quit the SAD (standard American diet) woe than to give up guitar playing because my hands can't function thru the pain. Oh, and another benefit (there are many) to a proper diet is increased mental clarity for remembering those difficult and lengthy chords, notes, and phrases to the songs we love to play and listen to. 🎼

[@richardelson3261]

Great educational video. BTW Tim Lerch=The Dude

[@MartinBaldock]

Fascinating, and informative, thankyou!

[@MichaelNeverisky]

Brilliant and generous. Thank you both from a member of "the constituency".

[@garretknisley6015]

Nice to see you here Michael - really appreciate all you do, you have such great touch, fluidity, tone & taste. Keep on keeping on my friend

[@Jeff-m5x3j]

After playing guitar for over 50 years, arthritis and trigger finger started plaguing my left hand. I gave up playing and actually sold off or gave away almost all of my guitars. During recovery from hand surgery, the physical therapist told me that I needed to start playing again as therapy. I actually have had to buy a new guitar. It is like starting over again. I am playing like when I was 8 at age 64. I can’t really make a D chord. Practice makes perfect.

[@kymcarter589]

amazing video! thank you so much! looking forward to number 2 !

[@barrysebastian9584]

Great discussion Tim, and Dr. Yule! I did watch your previous “hand” video and found it helpful. This discussion with, as you said, “someone who knows what he’s talking about,” was great. At 70 yrs of age, I’ve had trigger finger issues (and two shots), as well as diagnosed arthritis in my hands, so although I’m nowhere near Keith’s situation(!!), I am feeling it. So, yeah, this topic hits home for many of us in this demographic. Oh, and long live stoicism😁. Be well🙏👍!

[@michaelhackethal8187]

Dear Tim, thanks for looking into this often overlooked topic. Whenever I fell pain in my joints, I listen to Django Reinhardt. He could only use two of the fingers of his left hand and was still able to make great music. That is what counts. To make the best of it under the circumstances. It takes effort, but no effort means no reward. Please keep posting videos, I can learn so much from your explanations! Take care!

[@tadmorrison]

For good arm and hand position, I recommend this. Sit straight and relaxed in a chair. Form a chord, keeping your thumb on the back of the neck. Now, lay the guitar face down in your lap, holding the chord. Raise the guitar back into playing position, moving your arm only at the elbow. This is, more or less, the optimal playing position.

[@bawilms]

Helpful objective discussion.

[@nicolasmaurin182]

Great video. Super interesting. Very smart people here. Thanks Tim.

[@CJRSTV]

I'm 36 and I started experiencing arthritis in my index finger joints the last year or two. Taking glucosamine/chondroitin helps quite a bit, as does taking a tumeric supplement, wearing compression gloves also seems to help quite a bit. The thing that helps the most is soaking my hands for about 5 minutes in hot water before I play every time, religiously, this seemed to pretty much stop my finger from hurting. I find it to be far more effective to submerge my hands in a bowl/sink full of hot water as opposed to just running hot water over them, the heat seems to get in a lot better this way. Hope this helps someone!

[@neilbush9873]

Thanks especialy about turmeric ,its most powerfull mixed with ground pepper

[@m007mm]

It's the CalciumOxalateCrystals... Look at the C.a.r.n.i.v.o.r.e.D.i.e.t...

[@CJRSTV]

@@m007mm I appreciate the advise I will look into it. I've tried strict diets like Paleo and keto in the past for limited periods of time. Keto seemed to do the most good for my psoriasis and joint pain so that's what I'm doing at the moment.

[@CJRSTV]

@@neilbush9873 Yes, most supplements will have Bioperine (black pepper) in them for enhanced absorption.

[@m007mm]

@@CJRSTV look at Mikhaila Peterson, she had arthritis since she was a child. 2 joint replacements. Not sick anymore.

[@projectifier]

I quit Ibuprofen and switched to Tumeric extract which can be used as a supplement whereas ibuprofen seems to have a pernicious effect if used over extend periods if time.

[@Jerrylumdegaard]

Wow I needed this. My main job as a communications fiber optic splicer has taken a toll on my hands and fingers. Guitar is my escape from life, but the pain remains. Cheers, and Happy New Year!!

[@MrSadriabi]

Thank you for making this video Tim. I wish this was available in 2010 when I started having trigger finger on both hands at the same time. After 2 years of trying various treatments I ended up getting a surgery then another one a year later. Now I have arthritis in first joint of index finger (fretting hand) and trigger finger in ring finger. The arthritis makes it very difficult to control the pressure I am putting on the string. Mostly it is too much pressure which I need to lessen. Anyway, I have been struggling with these issues and I am glad to see a guitar player focused video.

[@m007mm]

We are already drugged by plant "medicine"... Plants defend themselves amongst other toxins, with oxalates. Oxalates bind with several minerals but it loves calcium, creating CalciumOxalateCrystals. Needle shaped crystals, which form 80% of kidney stones. And if they form in your joints, we call it arthritis! Also taking away calcium from the blood, forces the body to take calcium from your bones, which we call osteoporosis! Go Ke to Car ni vore 😍 👍 And experience a second youth!

[@markbeard2220]

Thanks Tim. It’s very kind of you to organise such informative content. Love your playing and love your channel.

[@JohnnyBargeldBoom]

Awesome Video! Thank you so much! I am 43 and have problems with my fingers and my wrist, but I love guitar so much, so quitting is no option. Would love to see more videos with Dr. Yule! Keep up the good work!

[@leegollin4417]

Im 57 and play pain free for about 40 hours a week for decades now. The key is being efficient in all movement and in applying pressure. Find ways to play with both hands in their most relaxed state possible. They said Paganini looked like he had a feather touch.

[@leegollin4417]

@@60Burst by his handshake. We did that in the old days.....Im 200.

[@newgunguy4176]

@@leegollin4417 Great answer! Maybe, he'll stop asking stupid questions.

[@joecharles6448]

Joe Charles Really important topic. I have recently had symptoms which sopped my playing cold. I have nodules on my joints and palms. So I stopped playing and started a few hand exercises to increase my circulation in my hands. The nodules on my palms and finger joints have subsided. But who knows, not me. I will carry on with this.

[@luchoo1912]

Que ejercicios realizas? Ya estas bien?

[@rickcurtis2983]

Excellent discussion, thank you!!

[@HighlightsVideoBlog]

I recently acquired a Godin Grand Concert Duet Ambience guitar, which is awesome. However twice this week, and the first in over fifty years of playing, I had forearm pain when playing it after 30-45 minutes. After a YT vid from Richy Molina with describing being uncomfortable playing an older Godin, in the forearm and shoulder, it opened my eyes to this potential issue. With your conversation with Dr. Yule, I now understand so much more about what is happening with my New-to-me Godin. Thank you both for the timely discussion!

[@kevincross8372]

Great video and so needed! Remember that we all started in a place that is smothered by the international wanting to be like the greatest that ever played! Pushing without remorse to do the impossible,but not knowing how much attention was put into how they would need to play it over and over again easily. And that is an inherent issue of study as to the suttle differences between players as to how there muscl memory landed in that song or line and there will always be a bit of different challenges for anyone else who wants to play thru perfectly and retrain there naturally occurring motion to say the least must have some detrement to lucid function of the joints and all functional components. Is it more a mental preparation than a physical that would prevent problems assuming no standing issues apply?

[@60Burst]

Thank you for this. I’m dealing with a hurt hand and my main concern is my guitar playing! and was happy to see this episode. Just saved me a Dr visit!

[@MrBobrguitar]

I am 60 yrs old and have been very fortunate with the health of my hands. However, I struggle with Fibromyalgia and Occipital neuralgia. I wonder if you. Could/would speak to how these maladies affect your hands and how you can avoid them. I'm sure that I'm not alone but, I don't know what I would do if my guitar playing was taken away from me. I've played for 50 years now and it has become part of me. Thanks so much for your help and your great videos!

[@TheoDahlemPickups]

Kind of late to the party. Very interesting indeed. I have no problems in the hands at all. Been playing .10 gauge stings on my electrics and mediums on my acoustic. Bending the Kossoff thing and am happy to be able to do all that even at almost 65. But now, since I saw this video I'm a bit alert and wondering if I should better step down to .9 strings just a s a precautious attempt to not run into any potential problems. Not sure if this question can even be answered at all. I guess it won't hurt but man I love .10 gauge so much better. Not trying to vent into the infamous epic debate.

[@glennmichaelthompson4112]

I finally got to see a chiropractor yesterday who believes she can help me with numbness in my left hand (no pain though). I've been to other doctors over the past couple of years who have either misdiagnosed or want to resort to surgery on both wrists for carpal tunnel symptoms which I have no symptoms of at all in my right hand. The chiropractor has been the only hope I've had in a few years of being able to play guitar regularly again. I've been making a living as a musician and music educator for most of my adult life except for the last few years (I'm 62). I had experienced CTS about 10 years ago but used the Montgomery Method by Dr. Kate Montgomery to reverse the symptoms and keep it away for the better part of a decade. At this point the symptoms are stemming from different motions, postures etc than in the past.. As far as arthritis is concerned I've noticed a positive effect as long as I continue taking my daily supplements of glucosamine w/ chondroitin. The hand exercises, stretching and massage of The Montgomery Method appear to help as well. I'm going to see the chiropractor again next week and discuss the options for treatment. It's going to cost me as chiropractor treatment isn't covered under regular medical treatment (I'm Canadian). But I'd rather sell a couple of guitars to cover the costs just to allow me to play again. I hoping and praying these treatments will give me the results I need. I hope Source is listening! Thanks so much for addressing these medical problems we have as guitar players, Tim!!! It's something that is probably overlooked more than it should be. Great information in this video.

[@anthonyludington8320]

Bravo! This is how people should use their social platform. Super informative, great positive energy, and such a realistic & encouraging vibe. 🤘🏻As a luthier and a guitarist, I appreciate this content. We gotta take care of our meatbags!

[@jazzmarkus]

Thank you both for this important video!

[@AdamLevyGuitarTips]

Thanks for sharing this conversation, Tim & Geoff. ❤

[@Trombonology]

I find this discussion extremely interesting at this time in my guitar journey. I've been playing for forty-five years now, and I know that my largely self-taught approach, which includes the death grip, has taken some toll on my hands, especially the fretting left (I'm a lefty who plays righty, which always felt more natural). I've suspected for decades that I've suffered some nerve damage, as my writing became even poorer than it was to begin with. I'm especially curious about the thoughts of other guitar players who primarily play acoustic archtop, in the style of Allan Reuss (my guitar hero), Freddie Green and Eddie Lang. The relatively high action and heavy strings that were a necessity in the late '20s through at least late '30s are still favored today by many who play acoustic archtops, in the belief that these two elements are required to get that authentic sound. Too, many of us feel that electric archtops and amplification naturally make the player back off in playing swing rhythm. I run 13s on all my guitars, acoustic and electric, with the 13 and 17 swapped out for 14 and 18 on my acoustics, and my tech, per my instructions, set my Loar 700 up so that I could achieve better projection on rhythm while still being able to play chord melody/chordal solos with relative ease. I'd be interested to hear if others have felt the effects of this somewhat uncompromising approach.

[@babalaughing]

Fascinating stuff, I was hanging on every word! Tim, thanks for the insight and latitude to veer off a bit from your usual. And Dr. Geoff, thanks for the knowledge and the ability to package it in a way that is understandable to non-medical folks. (I've had tendinitis and radial [not carpal] nerve issues since 2008. Managing them with strategies that include exercises, sleep, "natural" anti-inflammatories, and increased awareness of the mechanics of playing.) This is much-needed subject matter, especially for those of us of a certain age.

[@ericsplittgerber5154]

I'm struggling with chronic tendonitis (intersection syndrome specifically) that makes it nearly impossible to press my thumb into the back of the fretboard without pain. I can do lead playing, but any chord playing that involves repetitive squeezing, especially when there's lots of muting and scratching like faster funk, it's pretty much off limits. I've had some success with leveraging my right arm against the guitar so I can press with my left hand without engaging my thumb, but it's severely limited what I can do on the instrument. It's been a couple years now. I've take months off of guitar entirely but the issues were waiting for me when I came back. Thanks for the video, hopefully someday I can play pain free!

[@petermorgan5683]

Wow what an informative video. Thanks Tim for making this and thanks Dr Yule for sharing your expertise.

[@GlennMichaelThompson]

Great topic! Much needed for guitar players of a certain age. There's a good book I've had some success with called "End Your Carpal Tunnel Pain Without Surgery" by Kate Montgomery M.D. There are some good preventative maintenance exercises you can use daily that can keep CTS from occurring. Lately however, I've been having problems in my neck and shoulder (left side) which have been preventing me from being able to play guitar for any length of time. Been thinking of seeing a chiropractor who is using some new techniques other than typical manipulation .... or opting to make an appointment at a sports medicine clinic. Both of these are expensive (beyond my typical means), but doctors at more than one hospital want to treat the CTS with surgery and that, I'm quite sure is not the main cause of the problems I'm experiencing. I'm in Canada where surgery is covered by health care but chiropractic and sports medicine are privatized and costly. I just want to play guitar again on a full-time basis. It's been discouraging.

[@bradvandenberg-daves9953]

I'm 22 and you're one of my favorite guitarists Tim. I appreciate the video though. I had some technique issues when I started playing 5 years ago that gave me some issues until I learned to fix them.

[@TimLerchGuitar]

That's awesome!

[@jdblackwell2]

After 61 years of playing, arthritis took its toll on my left hand CMC and MP joints. I just can't play more than a few minutes which is a heartbreaker when an exceptional Tele and a custom made MIDI/acoustic sit languishing on their stands. I'm going to have surgery on it in the next month or two.

[@MrMewsique]

I battled tendonitis for 25 years. I quit eating bread, grains and legumes and anything else that causes inflammation. Just recently I quit drinking alcohol My tendonitis went into remission in my 50's and as long as I don't cheat on my diet my hands are healthier than they were when I was 32. Another thing that's a huge help is the Egoscue Clinic. They focus on posture and that too has not only cleaned up hand problems but it has also fixed my hip. Egoscue does therapy through video so no matter where you are check them out. The diet has been the biggest factor for me and I would put money down that it will be for you as well. Alcohol is the most inflammatory. To top all that off, after I quit booze my blood pressure dropped from 126/80 to 110/80. I'm now 62 and I can practice long hours with no problems. I know how frustrating this can be so I hope this helps someone out there suffering like I did for so many years.

[@78tag]

Thanks Tim :)

[@adde65]

Such a great talk - thanks! Been playing string instruments for decades. I do have Dupuytren's Contracture in both hands (similar to trigger finger, although I believe it's classified as an autoimmune condition?). Never had carpal tunnel or RSI issues, but I do have some ulnar nerve entrapment - once again this appears to be a genetic issue, as I have an accessory muscle (aka Anconeus Epitrochlearis) causing the problem. So far I've been able to manage this through exercise and "nerve flossing".

[@royk7755]

I have used the hot and cold water before a gig for decades. A pharmacist in the 70's told me about a topical creme called MYOFLEX. Haven't seen it in a few years, but there is a creme on the market now called SPORTSCREME in a green and white tube. Both cremes share an ingredient called ( Trolamine Salicylate - 10% ). It is basically odorless and doesn't have a heat effect. Rubbing alcohol is helpful. I will do the hot and cold water, then apply the creme and wash it off when I get set up at the gig. Also light massaging of the fingers and hands helps me. Wearing light gloves when possible on your job or working outside goes a long way in protecting your hands. Hope these temporary solutions may help my fellow musicians.🙂🎸

[@kipponi]

Andres Segovia played over 90. I am almost 57, no problem with fingers. If I play barre I push little with my fingers and more with whole arm. I don't know the exact percentages, I do it by feel.

[@Tonetwisters]

I am 75 years old and have some bad arthritis in my left thumb, especially. Cannot even bend it. Been playing 61 years, just starting number 62. Just went through hip replacement in July and November. Some people think leaky gut syndrome is the cause of arthritis.

[@Markleford]

Thanks to both of you for this frank and informative discussion!

[@frankaccardo2519]

Good information. I've been playing for about 50 years( classical, pop, jazz, teaching). I have never had any tendonitis, or carpal tunnel issues, but over the last 5 years have been having some stiffness and trouble reaching chords and scales with 1st or 4th finger stretches. I Had a TFCC tear ( made playing a c chord in open position painful) fixed with a cortisone shot. The biggest problem seems to be a 2nd finger(middle) metacarpophalangeal joint doesn't hyper extend like the others. That same finger has a dupuytren's chord that has been treated with Xiaflex but has returned. The contraction isn't too bad, but along with the hyper extension issue, makes playing the "C" shape chord in higher positions with a bar very slow and almost impossible. Even ascending scales are slow. I have been depressed about this for a while and your discussion about a good attitude and still get joy from playing even if you can't do what you used to be able to do was helpful. PS-- love your playing.

[@petertownshed884]

I started using hand grippers and I noticed my ability to play without burnout improved.

[@dejadejayoutube]

great video on a vitally important topic for this community. Short of getting into that precious flow state when one is applying the perfect amount force at the most efficient angles,...its good to hear some expert advice for those times we need to remind ourselves to avoid bad habits.👍

[@proverbs11vs30]

Thank you so much Tim and Dr Yule!

[@GuitarWithDofka]

Great video, something I worry about. Thank both of you for this. Happy New Year!

[@joelgevirtz6181]

Really helpful! Moire of this would be great for us old guys!

[@AudioAtmos]

Thanks for this interview. Unfortunately I’m familiar with much of the topic. Been playing since I was 14 and now 57. I have a family history of Osteo and Rheumatoid Arthritis. I have had carpal tunnel surgery on both wrists. Partially due to former work related injuries and also guitar playing didn’t help. For the last 7 years I have developed debilitating arthritis accompanied by tendinitis in my wrists, thumbs and hands. Not to mention a right knee that is all but destroyed and needs replaced. IME all the therapeutics are useful in their own way, but I have becoming more aware of how cold (ice) is the best thing. Especially after doing something that may have stressed more than usual. (IE: longer play time, doing yard work or other non music related work, like working on electronics) While I always naturally seemed to play with proper form from the start when these ailments start it can be very depressing. The other thing that was important is what was referred to as “catastrophizing” the situation. When the pain is really peaking it can be hard not to obsess, but there is a psychological aspect to it all. The truth is and only those who have really suffered will understand, but when the pain has you in its grip it can become all encompassing. P.S. One recent purchase that has not only given me hope and I believe truly helps with ergonomics and reducing the specific stresses related to guitar playing is getting a Strandberg Boden NX6. While the neck is its big feature the other important features are the body shape and it allowing for proper playing positions and changing position to decrease the build up of tension.

[@Rodney_T]

Very informative video! Do you think those popular ergonomic guitars from Sweden would help reduce hand and wrist injuries?

[@pallhe]

What a great and helpful video. Happy New Year!

[@MrPhotonjockey]

I had surgery to repair a distal bicep tear in my left arm. Now I have neuropathy in my fretting hand and pain in the two joints of my thumb.

[@jackk9366]

I am younger guy looking to pursue music, so this is helpful for me to look out for my physical health related to my occupation!

[@dougshankle7946]

I am a 54 year old guitar player (been playing for 35 years) and for the last year have been experiencing my fingers essentially cramping up in both hands during live performances (more so my fretting hand but even my picking hand). I do think I have slight case of trigger finger in my fretting hand pinky and picking hand ring finger although zero pain) but on new years eve only an hour or so into the set my index finger on my fretting hand all of a sudden just cramped up and then eventually it starts to spread to all the fingers. I couldn't do any single note lines as the fingers just wouldn't cooperate. Again, no pain. So frustrating.

[@adamfarkas7069]

Can you do something similar on tendonitis? Cheers