Time Team S12-E03 Preston,.Lancashire

Time Team join a group of experts to try and solve the mystery of why two Douglas A26 Invader American bombers collided with each other just after take off in November 1944.

[@scottb4029]

I would like to personally thank anyone affiliated with this project on Time Team . Thank you for your work for the families and friends of the 3 Airmen that perished in this unfortunate tragedy . As veteran from the 8th Air Force of the USAF, those soldiers were our brothers. I humbled by the sacrifices those soldiers made and profoundly grateful for all of the hard work( and respect )the Time Team displayed during the episode .

[@josephfitzhenry245]

This yank applauds and thanks Time Team for their sensitivity and genuine respect for the American airmen who perished in this crash, and in the episode of the two B-17's that crashed. To the RAF team, excellent job. Working with the RAF during my years in the US Air Force was a highlight of my career. Absolutely outstanding skills, dedication and espirit de corps. Simply the best brothers and sisters in arms, ever!

[@arthurslaughter4122]

Dad was a tail gunner on one of the B17's stationed with the fighter group in Saxmundham . This dig means a lot to me.

[@KiKi-1414]

Here in Oklahoma an WW2 vet got his high school diploma at the age of 98 this year. The stories he could share and the history we could learn from him.

[@MeMommyEms]

Wow! I never knew Guy is also an aircraft historian as well aside from being a Roman historian. That’s such an amazing knowledge!

[@davidtownsend6092]

Every British man is a ww2 historian. Duh

[@davidtownsend6092]

Twas thier "finest hour" Kinda wierd that your finest hour is you getting your asskicked for 4 years before you're stronger little brother comes to save you but hey whatever

[@ihatethisjobbutitpaysthebi4463]

there’s always one that thinks America is the best. The Japanese at pearl harbour, viet cong, taliban beg to differ but carry on dreaming. If the Uk had had the numbers America had at their disposal it would have been over years before you dragged your lazy arse over the pond

[@MILITARY1231]

My Grandfather who was a American was based at warton Preston Lancashire BAD2, he was a tool and die maker from Flint Michigan, We traced him through DNA 2019, his name was Carl lisle Southward, him and his Brother Ellis worked at warton for 3 years. We still live here in Preston. All the very best

[@chrismerkel9604]

I was amazed at how deep in the ground this plane was, in that it was on the surface in 1944. Phil really had his work cutout for him on this dig. The Time Team provided such a great service to humanity in their sheading so much light on our history. I always loved it when Phil would say "Let's Take A Look At The Geo Phys!"

[@Lulu-jl5zd]

Thank you for posting this. It is a moving story and that is what Timeteam is all about. Telling that forgotten story. And Phil in this episode shows such respect to the site despite being covered in tidal mud. What a professional :)

[@BirdieRumia]

As a fan of both Air Crash Investigation and Time Team, this episode is a dream come true for me.

[@KYIRISH1]

Wow! This is an outstanding episode. I was only nine years old at the time but I had an uncle, who lived with us in the States who was in the US Army Air Force. He was a navigator and one of his planes crashed also. Luckily for him and the crew, although they were shot up in France they were able to limp back to Allied soil in England. They had to crash the plane but all parachuted out OK and suffered nothing more serious than broken bones. My uncle was on several more missions and fortunately was able to return home after the war was over.

[@dadavieslee6544]

First, thank you +ReijerZaaijer for posting this series. I have become addicted. I am a naturalized American citizen, immigrant from the UK, and my dad was in the RAF during WWII. This episode brought me to tears, because it shows that people don't forget sacrifice. The dedication of the archaeologists, investigators and the RAF to getting the plane out, and the reverence and awe with which they did it, shows the best of mankind. Phil never fails to impress me, with his skills, his knowledge, but most of all his sensitivity. A great episode.

[@dadavieslee6544]

First, it was many years ago, when Britain was rebuilding after WWII. I was a child, & my father wanted more opportunities than he saw there at the time. The US offered him more upward mobility. At the time, the class structure in Britain was still pretty entrenched. Second, I love the US, in spite of recent political horrors. Imperfect as it is, it offers a hope and optimism not common in many other places. The fantastic diversity of so many aspects of the country are amazing -- cultures, geography, natural beauty. I just hope all that survives the dark visions of current government.

[@chrispza]

I must mirror your sentiments. This sort of quality programming is increasingly rare, and should be cherished. As a side-note: If anyone else is also curious about the vehicle Tony was driving, I think it was this: “Bandvagn 206 (Bv 206) is a tracked articulated, all-terrain carrier developed by Hägglunds (now part of BAE Systems Global Combat System…). -- Wikipedia. (Another side-note, Caitlin Doughty did a video entitled “Trump and the Fear of Death” Which I found enlightening: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nH-2lYGsopZpfMk)

[@claidheamhdalaimh3694]

@@dadavieslee6544 Your sentiments were beautiful... until you started talking politics. Sheesh, can't people post about the video without sticking in their two cents worth about other things? There are a lot of things I don't like, too, but this just isn't the place to list them.

[@corneliawissing7950]

@@claidheamhdalaimh3694 HEAR, HEAR!

[@077jason]

honestley one of the best episodes they did truely great i loved it. just proves old doesnt mean bronze age iron age 1944 is just as impressive

[@aliciaschultz309]

I have watched numerous episodes but this one made me cry

[@Gitarzan66]

Ian became one hell of an equipment operator over the years.

[@corneliawissing7950]

Ian is an unsung hero of the TT.

[@lameesahmad9166]

This opened an old wound and rubbed salt in it. My brother was in a helicopter casevacing (casualty evacuation) when his chopper was shot down. This was just two weeks before he would be fully qualified as an aircraft engineer and also three months before the cease of hostilities. We never recovered his body and due to the fact that it was in enemy territory and a secret, we were not allowed any information except that he died. It took 30 years before the head of operations revealed to us the location of his grave and the events which led to his demise. The lack of closure badly traumatized both my parents and their children and my father developed a sickness which affected his mental stability. (but we still cared for him until he himself died). My mother's personality also changed and she became a very bitter woman. On her death bed she talked about him and said she would be glad to be with him. Unfortunately neither of them lived long enough to be able pay their respects at his graveside. Although we, his siblings got to visit his grave, so much time had passed that even being there provided no closure. We now know every detail of his last moments; from the time his chopper left base till the time he died. And yet, I cannot bring myself to go to his graveside again, it is too painful and in the territory where he died 38 years on we are still not welcome. We cannot even erect a gravestone on the place. However, the tail of the chopper a Bell 205A has been kept there in a whitewashed circle; perhaps as a war trophy. Who knows? Alex wanted to go to Austria when he qualified to work with the search and rescue mountain teams. He already had his contacts and was going to prepare for this after this last operation. Lifting these aircraft wrecks makes me think of the helicopter fuselage which the local people inform us his burnt body was buried in. My sincere condolences to the family of Flight Lieutenants Zooba and Hubbard and Corporal Guy. Rest in Peace.

[@claidheamhdalaimh3694]

Lamees Ahmad My heart goes out to you and your family. Vietnam was a terrible time and there is so much that is still unanswered. I can't even imagine what your and other families went through faced with that kind of tragedy.

[@depleteduraniumcowboy3516]

Thank-you for sharing. We don't do enough for families such as yours.

[@Invictus13666]

Great story bro.

[@cdfdesantis699]

One of the most fascinating episodes of "Time Team" I've seen. Thanks to the Team for helping clarify a bit of US Air Force history.

[@BalefulHead]

This was a touching episode. Most episodes explore things that related to the past where relations and family are no longer around because so much time has gone by. This episode brought the pilot's sister, Ruth, into things and she put it in a very different light.

[@BlackIjs]

That was a touching moment, hearing about Hubbard's fiance.

[@marypasco2213]

Ruth’s experience was very similar to the one I had when my Mother died! It was, sort of, comforting.

[@219043204]

Love this show. I grew up in Londonderry, N Ireland on a farm where the WW2 anti-aircraft guns were placed. We had a great sense of history from wondering through the bunkers. This really brought the reality of WW2 home to us and peaked a life-long curiosity with this war.

[@paulbriody297]

It's evocative to hear personal details of those men who were killed.

[@briansmith9439]

Reminds me of stumbling across the engine block of the WWI Spad XIII in a cow pasture outside of Grandpre, France in 1997.

[@highonimmi]

I bet that was a find:)

[@armin2265]

Great work Time Team. Again you have solved the mystery of what happened to these 2 A-26's.

[@Pauldjreadman]

This one reason I like this show it's so varied its amazing.

[@kurtbogle2973]

Up on watching this I have come to understand that Time Team is not a group of Archeologists. "Its the ultimate group of archeologists! "

[@deborahvretis3195]

This made my eyes sting. Such a worthy effort. Thank you. I'm an American and appreciate what you have done.

[@davidbeem184]

I know this has been 9 years ago. But being a retired USAF man I really do appreciate the work you did. Thank you.

[@carolinam4301]

What a great episode and great use of archeology.

[@BlackIjs]

John: "You don't believe me?!" Guest: "No, not really." lol

[@phoule76]

Ah, Guy is also an aircraft historian! That explains why he went to France in Series 7 when they found a Spitfire.

[@wardafasih4446]

Wow awesome show and now I'm addicted to it.

[@jonathaneffemey944]

Thanks so much for posting.

[@jameswebb4593]

Military flying was extremely dangerous even in peace time . An acquaintance who was called up into the RAF just after the war and selected for pilot training and progressed to flying Spitfires then Meteors and Vampire Jets . I envied him is luck , and asked him as to why he didn't make it his career . His answer will surprise most of you as it did me , he said that when he looked at the group photo of his class of trainee pilots and saw how many were dead , he realized that drawing a pension was slim. An example nearly 500 pilots were killed flying Meteors , the vast majority in peace time accidents. The Uncle of one of my childhood friends was killed flying Meteors . This fatality rate applied to all fighters of that period , so no reason to think the Meteor was particularly bad.

[@maxdickinson4206]

another great time team its just a shame they couldnt get the other plane out

[@stannousflouride8372]

Again, not much to see but the site is here: 53°44'07.0"N 2°56'06.9"W I wonder if the pilots' families and sweethearts ever learned that because of this accident the USAF changed the way formations were flown and no other in-flight collisions took place. Though still tragic it gives meaning to their deaths.

[@reni9679]

Those are the coordinates which can be found when you google... but it seems not correct. I didn't buy it the surroundings did change that much. I didn't notice any "lake" within the docu and also could't find any way towards that location without having to cross a waterway. After some searching (did take me about 15 mins) I recognize it was over www.google.nl/maps/@53.734882,-2.9259869,414m/data=!3m1!1e3 according the map shown within the series. And.. it didn't change really. Even the dig pit can be noticed.

[@parrotraiser6541]

Learning lessons from accidents and changing procedures accordingly helps prevent subsequent repetitions. That's why aviation has become so much safer recently. As far as the motors are concerned, serial numbers and maintenance logs would identify what belonged to which.

[@marypasco2213]

Does anyone know if the bodies were recovered at the time of the crash? I’ve never heard that mentioned at all!

[@missybee2576]

@@marypasco2213 “Their bodies were removed from the site” 7:37

[@BoredCertified]

Outstanding episode!!

[@vfranceschini]

epic episode of an epic series! ty for the upload Reijer!

[@frankhoeppel2314]

Excellent episode.

[@AlphaOne2009]

Time Team is an awesome production. I love it! Tony is awesome..

[@spacewater7]

Around 2:50 'here we have a plane buried in the soil.' Not a naturally tenable position for an airplane. As stated by Phil and Tony near 33:50.

[@robertwbraiden]

I find it odd that the USAF didn't collect all the wreckage just after the accident for analysis. Considering it was such a new aircraft designed for war I'd have thought that the air force would have been eager to learn what happened. Maybe there had been a critical fault within the design which might have endangered all the other planes and their crews.

[@389383]

What I didn't understand is whether this plane was carrying a load of bombs or were they just flying to a new airbase in France. The diggers seemed to have no fear of bombs so I guess it was the latter.

[@389383]

They had just taken off, not returning from France.

[@389383]

So we have established that the planes were not on a bombing run but were instead relocating to a base in France. The accident in the air would have given them no time to drop the bombs if they were onboard.

[@georgedorn1022]

@Whiterun Guard The A-26 had a crew of 2 or 3 when flying combat missions (pilot + navigator and gun loader/bombadier depending on whether it was an A-26B/C, usually also a third crew member operating the rear-facing guns) so the fact that one of the 'planes only had a pilot on board suggests that they were not on a combat operation.

[@deborahvretis3195]

I wondered this, too. I think there was a critical fault. The US military is good at shushing up any fault of it's own.

[@RandallFlaggNY]

No flints for Phil to analyze?

[@billenright2788]

A lot of the early model A-26's were made in my hometown of Tulsa,Ok. Very cool plane. Served all the way thru 'Nam and even later in some Arab forces.

[@Atomsk102]

My father trained as a flight crewman (like the corporal who was killed) on these planes during the Korean War.

[@Pugiron]

Ma Deuce is always in amazing shape in one of these crashes

[@gregb6469]

This episode of Time Team is mention in the Wikipedia article on the A-26 aircraft.

[@tammydriver5759]

Hey Tony! You missed a bit while you were shaving........

[@Libbathegreat]

15:23 😂😂 John cracks me up- and he was right!

[@jennydavis4198]

there final hypothisis is wrong, if the plane had broken apart in mid air the cockpit would have nose dived into the ground and destroyed itself on impact not landed on its belly intact. this was demonstrated in the the earlier time team episode with the american bombers (bombers in the marsh)

[@Mk1SpitfireGuy]

Alternative hypothesis: Zuber came up under Hubbard, just like they say. The planes collided; however, Hubbard's plane, although damaged, remained intact long enough for Hubbard to maintain a degree of control. The plane pancakes in, tail-low, flattening rear fuselage and breaking its back just aft of the trailing edge. The two sections separated and went their respective ways, coming to rest in the positions they occupied until the team found them.

[@georgedorn1022]

Alternatively, the professional air accident investigator *might* actually know what they are talking about?

[@poolbear2160]

Utmost respect to the airmen that lost their lives in this incident.

[@Chubachus]

Would have liked to see Tony do some digging, they could have uncovered more.

[@davekinghorn9567]

Breaking up in mid air would produce a debris field in the land at least a mile long behind the aircraft. Same way with ships that break up while sinking. Finding aircraft debris in that field would confirm an ariel breakup.

[@brucedavis191]

i must say if you don't get choked up even a little bit at about 42:22 Stanley Patonski first hand account you have no soul.

[@willtell8842]

Very chipper music on the plane crash cq. Sounded like superman 64

[@jameswebb4593]

I want to put this incident into perspective , it wasn't a rarity during the war , on the contrary far to commonplace. The Data speaks for itself. Americans produced 276000 aircraft during the war. 43000 lost overseas , 23000 in COMBAT . 14000 in Continental USA. Some researchers publish higher loss figures eg. home losses 21583 . Not every accident resulted in a death or injury , but many did.

[@jacksprat9344]

The A-26. They called it the "Widow Maker".

[@dwightehowell6062]

+Jack Sprat Take off and landing took skill. They were reported to handle like a fighter which threw some bomber pilots off but that raw power, speed, and agility meant they could get to the target and back out of the kill zone PDQ and that led to low losses in combat. Bottom line: If you were a skilled pilot this was the bird you wanted because it was the safest ride in the sky.

[@grumblesa10]

+Jack Sprat Actually that was the B-26. The confusion sometimes arises because post-war the "A-26" was renamed "B-26" as when used in Vietnam.

[@dwightehowell6062]

It is my understanding that the widow maker was disposed off after WW II along with a lot of other planes. The names may have been reused. I don't claim to know.

[@jacksprat9344]

I think it was used up through a year or two of the Viet Nam war, and for quite a few years as a fire suppression bomber for forest fires after that.

[@allmightlionthunder5515]

Looks like a modded p-47 lightning. they are sorta lame do not like them kind of planes lol the flying boat.

[@PunchesCouches]

what is that vehicle that Tony get into in the beginning?

[@jenniferholden9397]

There was a farm near that also had a caravan site, we used to stay there when I was a child and I'm sure there was the tail of a plane sticking out, my dad said it was a plane that had crashed, it would have been in the late 50s.

[@077jason]

im preaty damn sure that was john waynes voice doing the comentry in the black and white footage

[@MoonlightCircus]

I don't think so, but it does sound something like him.

[@basstrammel1322]

Tony's beard is hilarious! Did he color it black?

[@TeresaTrimm]

First aired January 16, 2005.

[@colinmarble2552]

They are so concerned about whether the machine gun is loaded and then hold the end of the barrel towards his stomach.

[@Hoverbot1TV]

Looked like a bomber version of the p-51 mustang. Great show,

[@uw1955]

That's what I thought too.

[@jimdille6015]

Anthony Smith Agree. The A26 was plug-ugly; Mustang was beautiful.

[@allmightlionthunder5515]

Looks like a modded p-47 lightning. they are sorta lame do not like them kind of planes lol the flying boat.

[@00BillyTorontoBill]

not even remotely. Try a newer Mosquito DH 98 or a Vickers Wellington

[@justinmoore8581]

This episode s12-e03 really puts the "ucky" in uckyology.

[@paulbriody297]

Aeroplanes!

[@sharimullinax3206]

This was so hard for me to watch.

[@sherryelliott4795]

Is Guy an expert on WWII era too?

[@andysing72]

He is Roman/WW2 planes , he is on the episode where they find a spitfire in France

[@talamioros]

Wtf, Guy is BOTH a Roman and an aircraft historian? It's illegal for someone to have so much knowledge and talent. It's not allowed!

[@desslokbasileus571]

27:42　46:34

[@michaelrobbins6694]

Oh gods.. that Tony has a very mouldy chin! WTH?

[@philaypeephilippotter6532]

It's called *_The Sheriff of Nottingham's Beard_* as he was playing *The Sheriff Of Nottingham* on TV at the time.

[@chriswarren1618]

All Pilots and aircrew know that flying (especially in the early days) involves some risk, but that didn't stop Douglas Bader, flying in WW2 action, after losing his leg(s) in a flying accident (yes, it was his fault). Flying your own plane is wonderful and I have come closer to killing myself, snow Skiing.

[@motaman8074]

Phil, you've got a bit of mud on your face. Just there....

[@lepthesr]

God damn Tony, that goatee is terrible. I hope you came to your senses.

[@johnmoss6631]

lepthesr. God damn Lepthsr, that comment is terrible. I hope you came to your senses.

[@philaypeephilippotter6532]

*J O* Now think, why would an _actor_ grow a beard?

[@chriswarren1618]

How in the hell can your archeological techniques explain a mid air which was likely due to pilot error, control malfunction or power plant failure.

[@avanconia]

Great uploads. Tony dying his chin pubes black is the most desperate look in geriatric television history.

[@jenniferholden9397]

avanconia It's his sheriff of Nottingham look, he has other day jobs.

[@Lemma01]

23'11" - why did no-one tell him about those ridiculous black smears on his face? Were they trying to make Sir Tony look a fool?

[@williamsmith1108]

Military truth.....never volunteer.

[@stannousflouride8372]

+William Smith Sergeants truth..... "Private, you just volunteered."

[@highonimmi]

rule number 1: your name is not "hey you." rule number 2: always have paperwork in your hand. if someone stops you for a detail you show them the papers and tell them you have either an appointment or you are needing to take this to ..... rule number 3: volunteer only for simple and easy tasks. when it comes time for the shit details others get assigned due to the fact they must do their turn in "detailville." number 4: out of sight out of mind. if they can't see you they can't "volunteer/dog/assign" you to do shit.

[@Peatman]

That could have come from Catch 22. :)

[@highonimmi]

Peatman it's what I learned in the military, tho.

[@Peatman]

highonimmi I believe it! My father was an officer so he has been on the receiving end as well as doling out. :D Which nation's forces/branch were you in?

[@DIGGER19860]

great episode despite tony's goatee making him look like a mexican.

[@michealleonard5051]

Mko😮kk😢k

[@sa12111]

If this were a German plane, it's designer would have been off to the firing squad

[@vincewhite5087]

They need more day labourers with shovels.

[@allmightlionthunder5515]

Looks like a modded p-47 lightning. they are sorta lame do not like them kind of planes lol the flying boat.

[@blex5579]

karma. from germany.

[@PhillRobinson]

Time team should stick to what the know..

[@corneliawissing7950]

Would it spoil the viewing for some if people gave up making personal remarks and concentrated on the marvellous work being done?