Timebox your way to startup product market fit

If at first you don't succeed, try try again. Then quit. It's no use being a damn fool about it. WC Fields said that, and that's true for startups and founders as they make decisions about what customers to pursue, and what problems to solve. These are all linked. In this video we cover concrete ways to use timeboxing to improve your chances of finding startup gold.
I'm Garry Tan, venture capitalist and cofounder at Initialized Capital. We were earliest investors in billion dollar startups like Coinbase and Instacart. I'm doing my own run-and-gun one man KZbin channel with no staff or crew - we're going for raw and unfiltered, not perfect.
Please like this video and subscribe to my channel if you want to see more videos like this!
Learn more about the companies we fund, and how we work with them at initialized.com

[@miguelangelrodrigo4794]

It has been a while since the last time I found a channel worth my procrastination

[@stefan-t--]

it's pretty incredible how much value you're dropping in these videos, kudos to you for sharing the knowledge. i'm a tech lead / sr software engineer who has grown a startup (1st engineer hire and 3rd employee, left at 50 employees and ~15 engineers) and it's remarkable how wise your content is. awesome stuff!

[@GarryTan]

Thanks! Just trying to put out what would be useful and what I wish people told me.

[@supreet-singh]

This was the most succinct and direct advice I've ever seen on the struggle of finding product market fit. Thanks Garry - this is your best video (so far) !!

[@GarryTan]

Glad it was helpful!

[@zido-businessstartups4610]

So incredibly insightful. As a current seed stage company, I have to agree with the idea of "throwing things at the wall to see what sticks" until the channel or strategy becomes a new normal. Thanks again Garry!

[@bahtiyarhaydarov6098]

This should be any startuper’s mantra! Love the music on the background:)

[@queuebit]

2:50 > Failure in CAC is getting stuck doing the same things that don't work. Thinking through the impacts of this for: - B2B vs B2C - a marketing problem - a product problem - lean startup methodology: learn -> build -> measure -> learn (cycle) Thanks for sharing, Garry!

[@georgeb8637]

1:10 - a set of people you can reach and the problem those people have (possible try - possible hypothesis) 1:16 - insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results 2:10 - 2 failure problems (can't get people to use it OR not a real problem) 2:36 - when you trying to figure out customer acquisition (try lots of things: content marketing, seo, events, webinars, partnerships, craigslist, taking users from other platforms,

[@funkyrimo]

I come to this channel every time I am stuck and I always land on something that just helps me reframe things. thanks

[@Jay-wp7kh]

This channel deserve more attention. You can't find many channels that be so transparent about start up world. You can see from both points of view from founder to VC. Thanks Garry for this video !

[@GarryTan]

Appreciate that Vinh! Yes, need more ways to get people farther along. A lot of it is pure culture to pass on.

[@quirkyquester]

Using Timebox to find product market fit ✅ Love the last quote in terms of embracing authenticity. Accepting and seeing all the good, bad, and ugliness of the world, is a great way to truly experience and learn from the world. Thank youu! Garry!

[@GarryTan]

Thanks George!

[@omarashrafhassan]

I am not trying to be complimentary but the clarity and conciseness of this video message are the best that I have seen. It is hard to lose track while listening. Thank you.

[@GarryTan]

Thank you for watching!!

[@AbhishekPatel-si7uq]

We’ve recently started doing this because we’re just going all over the place with scope creep and no timeline. Great to see you’ve made a video on this! Makes me think we’re on the right path and more confident that we’ll arrive at PMF 😊

[@kenmooso]

Garry, this is the first time I’ve heard of a time box. It makes so much sense. Thank you. I feel like I’ve really learned from this video. And btw, thank you for responding to my pitch. Best!

[@monkfair5210]

You are the most UNDERRATED guy in the tech industry. Thank you and God bless you.

[@GarryTan]

Thank you!

[@zesuw2370]

Great idea of timeboxing! However, it would be tricky to tell when is too short and when is too long...

[@platypusandroid5513]

Garry your channel is a real goldmine, thanks again

[@Mickeyfsc2601]

Thanks so much for your great insights Gary I'm your biggest fan all the way from Nigeria

[@jose_huitron]

Incredible advice. Thanks for leading the pack with real insights and authentic advice. The quote at the end was lit. Thanks Garry!

[@arcynosure]

Hey Garry! Awesome content. Product guy here building something for the future generations. Time boxing the PMF is actually true. I have something to show you but I don't know if this is the right platform to reach out to you, just had this crazy idea to comment as you reply to most of the comments! Cheers!!

[@sandieman]

Love the zen background music.. so good.

[@vishalkguptanyc]

Love your videos and have been as helpful as PG’s essays when I’m feeling a bit lost. Also a great use of the “On to the next one” video. Thanks again!

[@GarryTan]

Thanks for watching Vishal!

[@alexzhuang4093]

Hey Garry, just wanted to let you know that the way you speak and the things you talk about really resonate with me. I'm a highschool senior trying to make something of this quarantine. Respect from Toronto.

[@GarryTan]

Ah man you are on the right track if you are into this at this point. Let me know how I can help you!

[@nerdintellect956]

I was having some serious issue in fixing my problem in my new business I have no helping hand but I respect you greatly for the information you share helps me so much in my business Thank you So so much I just feel so sad that I can not share and show how important are your information to others. I think people now a days a just attracted to flashy things but still I think most of you subscribers are much serious and actually interested and will take help from your advice Still thanks❤ so much

[@GarryTan]

It doesn't matter what other people are doing, just what you're doing as long as you find it meaningful and interesting.

[@joao__nm]

Dude your videos are actually some of the best and most helpful out there. I love the minimalist style and it just works great. keep it up :)

[@GarryTan]

Thank you!!

[@doftpeters]

Gary , I’m addicted to your videos , please don’t stop making them

[@GarryTan]

Thanks for watching David!

[@njper123]

Man. This hit the spot so hard. If I hadn’t subbed you already, I’d do it again. Thank you 🙏

[@GarryTan]

I appreciate that!

[@alfabumhira2545]

King Garry For President. Amazing free knowledge.

[@photoclub8853]

Very good advice for me , obsessed in building a company. - watching from INDIA

[@slimetimerick]

Garry, thank you man for creating this amazing content. I absolutely love your channel. I wish you nothing but the best!

[@GarryTan]

My pleasure!

[@efimovdk]

such underrated and quality content, thank u Garry and keep it that way. btw appreciate the music in the background, it highlights your narration pretty well

[@GarryTan]

Thanks! I am just enjoying the creative process. Someone told me video is ideal for emotions, and so I'm trying to see what I can to do use music to be a backing track for that.

[@shubskobs7335]

Garry Tan hey I think this might help kzbin.info/www/bejne/sKXcgYVjl8aFgM0 Also, if you don’t know yes theory, watch a couple of videos then watch the video I shared. Hope u find it useful. Cheers

[@dcflow7859]

Another Astonishing video! Thank you!

[@GarryTan]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@alihaq2097]

Beautifully produced and incredibly informative video Garry! I'm about to launch my startup and have been hung up on how to approach the product market fit aspect of it (which is arguably the most important), I think what you've outlined here is a fantastic strategy. Subscribed and looking forward to your content! Also can I say great choice of music? It's awe-inspiring without being cheesy and really adds to the aesthetic.

[@GarryTan]

Thank you Ali and good luck with your startup!

[@jason18401]

Thanks Gary, love your content. Your voice is so soothing

[@GarryTan]

Thanks Jason! I appreciate it!

[@justthatpm]

Thanks, Gary. Great info here

[@netrowex]

Appreciate this one Garry!

[@torquesjr]

Cool man, thanks for the video! Hope you are doing good and that everyone is staying safe.

[@GarryTan]

Thanks, you too!

[@yuqin9912]

Thank You Garry.

[@jaayaustin336]

Really do love the music in the background

[@adnanechaabi8434]

Just found out about your channel. Amazing and refreshing content. Keep it up!

[@GarryTan]

Thanks for watching!

[@readmycomment3157]

Its so difficult to know if you have a failure on your hands or if you've just not tried enough.

[@JohnSmith-pw3yw]

Gary is the yoda of SAAS, him a gift to humanity 👍

[@thomas-sinkala]

Thank you Garry. I have that notification on.

[@GarryTan]

Thanks for watching!

[@user-cb7il1gb3k]

Thank you Garry.

[@fultonfilmcompany3554]

Always the best!

[@vladmkrtumyan1660]

Love it, but the natural question is how long do you time of an idea for what’s the formula?

[@SigilWen]

Great stuff as always :)

[@GarryTan]

Thanks for the visit

[@subijoyacharya3189]

Can you kindly demonstrate timeboxing with some examples or case study?

[@SunnyKumar-mz7mv]

You have that clarity bro. Wish I could do a paid 1on1 session with you.

[@GarryTan]

Thank you for watching! I can chat on DM via IG

[@ambrish8144]

very great content and video this should be on netflix

[@soorajchandran]

This video is a gem! Just what I needed to hear today. As someone who doesn’t have access to capital or the SV privilege, I have to build something and get some traction before I can even talk to an investor. At this stage, how would you approach timeboxing? Question: How long will you try before deciding to move on?

[@GarryTan]

I usually think a 10 to 12 week period is enough to tell if something is going to work or not. Depends on the tech and the difficulty in building.

[@soorajchandran]

@@GarryTan Thanks!

[@jaysee3611]

Thank you Garry

[@GarryTan]

Thanks for watching!

[@jaysee3611]

@@GarryTan I'll be applying for the YC W2021 batch. We're in a stage 2, two-sided marketplace platform with about 30 or so users on the supply side and 0 users on the demand side atm (pre-launch - we'll be launching in less than a week) - any tips so we can succeed in the application? :)

[@ZenoExia]

Great sharing Garry. How do we set a timebox that is not too short or too long?

[@GarryTan]

Take the time you have, divide it by the number of bullets you want, and then ask yourself if the time is enough to tell one way or another.

[@Zara_Luna]

1) Why Founders Fail 2) Product Market Hypothesis 3) 2 Failure Cases 4) Product Market Fit 5) Customer Trial 6) Time boxing

[@icloudtechnologies]

Hey Garry! I started building upon an idea recently. I'll be moving ahead with the idea of Katamari Damacy from the other video and timeboxing it (and trying the lead bullets). Based on whether this will work out, you'll (hopefully) hear about it, or you won't.

[@GarryTan]

Good luck!

[@TheJunkProductionz]

I never comment, but this is great content, keep it up. Any books you would recommend? Looking for something different than the typical startup book recommendations.

[@jakebeau2790]

What’s a good rule of thumb for how long your time box should be - i.e. long should you test something?

[@LilNewtGingrich]

garry is invaluable

[@jamessinka]

Hey Gary, what are your favorite resources for finding lead bullets to try firing?

[@GarryTan]

I need to compile a list and talk about that next.

[@hiringcafe]

Any recommendation for how long you should time box?

[@joewu4386]

Hi Gary, thanks for the video. How do you typically timebox stuff. Can you give examples of what you did?

[@GarryTan]

Posterous we probably should have timeboxed our pivot. It ended up leading me to quit prematurely when instead I could have used this method. When our growth flatlined after Instagram came out, we thought we had to make a "big pivot decision" whereas what we needed to do was make a list of alternatives, and then timebox a bunch of hypotheses. My cofounder wanted to make it Google Groups, which I didn't think was going to work. I left to try to support him. In retrospect there were a ton of things we could have done instead: gotten profitable by becoming a SaaS business selling to SMBs, or try to focus on email newsletters (Mailchimp), or even do a pivot to commerce (Shopify) - we had committed users that all could have paid us money for any of those things, and there would have been very specific tests to figure out whether it was right or not.

[@bdinh14]

@@GarryTan Thanks Gary :) Is there a rule of thumb to how long your time box should be?

[@GarryTan]

Depends. Might be 6 months if it takes 3 months to build. Might be as short as one week build three weeks to evaluate. Hard to have fast rules here.

[@bdinh14]

@@GarryTan I see. For clarity, by evaluate you mean by getting users right? If you can get the product in front of the people with the problem and if they'll pay for it.

[@GarryTan]

Bill Dinh Yeah you need some indication it’s working. Usually recommend a bar from small numbers of 5% to 10% weekly growth at the minimum to know if this has legs. Because if it can’t grow that fast from small numbers, then it won’t grow faster later. That’s for consumer and SaaS focus. For enterprise sales, it’s trickier: you’re the one in the room trying to sell, and you don’t have a lot of datapoints. You have to feel it out. If you feel like there is one in front of you who is signing on the dotted line and there are at least a few more in your pipeline who will convert, plus a large market beyond that, that’s probably what enterprise success / PMF looks like.

[@suisinghoraceho2403]

Hi Garry, thanks for this awesome video. Entrepreneurs should really bear the advise you gave here in mind every single day in their life. The two failing cases you mentioned here corresponds really well to the growth hypothesis & value hypothesis in lean startup methodology. You propose to prove the growth hypothesis first (whether you can get lots of people onboard) then the value hypothesis (whether you can retain them). This order makes a lot of sense. However, I wonder if there are situations where it makes sense to do the reverse? For example, say there is a B2C offering that requires huge investment in AI. Would it make sense to prove value hypothesis first by having human simulate the AI and try selling a concierge service MVP to a small number of people? Or is this a fallacy as even if you product doesn’t stick, you can blame it on recruiting the wrong testers? Thanks in advance for your help! Best Horace

[@GarryTan]

Yes absolutely - there are no rules, there are only things that are useful or not!

[@PhilippeAssef]

masterpiece

[@lestatega1]

Garry you are legit :) I love your content. BTW from where did you get your background sounds?

[@GarryTan]

Epidemic Sound, Artlist and Musicbed

[@lestatega1]

@@GarryTan thanks you are d'man.

[@ar00042]

1:12 *IT engineers* : “Did you try restarting it?”

[@stockchannels6620]

Omg gary i used to work on same building as you same view

[@johnmwangi8706]

I like this, i hv to do something about my talents

[@SunnyKumar-mz7mv]

Let's go babay!!

[@ultiumlabs4899]

Thanks. I've got the point, but how long is the "timebox", so not too short and not too long?

[@leslysandra]

😭😭😭 beautiful

[@finnbaseley]

Hey Gary, have you spoken anywhere about the best things to do before starting a startup?

[@GarryTan]

Finn Oh that’s a good idea, I can do that next.

[@finnbaseley]

@@GarryTan Great, I think it would be really valuable!

[@bimamufid]

being sales employee

[@HalfSandwich]

Garry, what advice would you give a founder that keeps trying to juggle multiple startup ideas at the same time?

[@GarryTan]

Don't. Just do one thing until you know it won't work. Do two if you must. Any more and we've never seen it work.

[@jordixboy]

Good content, but not always assume your a team, there are many Solo-Founders out there (including myself.)

[@GarryTan]

That's true, but you do have to build a team eventually right?

[@jordixboy]

@@GarryTan yep, totally! at some point if you want to scale you need a team, totally.

[@TheMiningStore]

via twitter: twitter.com/yenFTW/status/1252971819289591809 yaaas! it's an art just as much as it is a science! - everyone can figure out how to do this well... but you have to configure your tactic(s) to match / marry with your personality (and what you know about yourself). self-awareness is the "unlock" for effective use!

[@AlexanderMoen]

Yeah, but how do you determine how much time to allocate to any given attempt?

[@GarryTan]

Take the amount of capital you have, divide it by the $ you spend per month and that's the number of months you have to figure it out. Then figure out how many "tries" or bullets you want. Divide by that. That's the amount of time you want to give yourself for a given "try". At that point it depends. Sometimes all you have time for is 1 thing. Sometimes it's fast to iterate and maybe you can get 5 or 6 different attempts. A typical design/product sprint maybe is 2 weeks to 3 weeks. How many sprints does it take to get a complete feature out?

[@ShareMarketGyan612]

Hey Garry, Would you be able to take out some 15 mins of your time for the startup guide?

[@vaibhavkapoor5793]

🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@GarryTan]

Thanks for watching!

[@francissantora6894]

What I'm wondering is how long should a person give each timebox? Any guidelines?

[@GarryTan]

Take your runway and divide by the number of shots you want to be able to take

[@francissantora6894]

@@GarryTan That makes sense! Thank you so much for replying. I admire your work very much.

[@soojungh]

Hi Garry, I am a non-technical founder that is working with a tech agency to develop my MVP. How do I go about timeboxing when my resources (ability to pay and test/iterate ideas and features for a prolonged time) are limited? Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

[@soojungh]

For ex, would my best bet be to find proof of concept (signups) first, then develop; or develop then find users? TIA

[@NevRodda]

wow

[@GarryTan]

Thanks for watching nev!

[@Startupsandsushi]

Why is this not laminated on every Founder's wall?

[@GarryTan]

I'm sure it would help.

[@jeromeibanez2891]

To be honest, I don't like the idea of time boxing. When you timebox, you're not really working in that timeframe. If you timebox for 6 months, you're probably working 3 months and the rest is spent worrying and looking for a job under the guise that you're still trying to get PMF. There are tons of companies that took a long, long time to get PMF. Examples: Honey, Pinterest, Vivino. I'm in the same predicament and I'm happy that I didn't timebox. What I am doing instead is this: is there another thing that I can possibly do? Can I improve SEO? Can I still improve product? Can I explore another channel? It's similar to what you're talking about here, but instead of time boxing I'm hypothesis boxing. List all of your hypothesis, questions, and what-if scenarios. Go through all of them. Keep going until you've answered all of your questions/hypothesis. My theory is that eventually, you will either hit a wall or get the diamond.

[@benjaminbk8941]

Well, it's true to some degree, but what about the fact that alibaba had no revenue for 3 years ?

[@V12theGod]

What is a pilot?

[@GarryTan]

First customer trial

[@FreshhGraffz]

Tries first time and failes, ok I’ll try again. Tries second time, succeeds and quits. Am I doing it Right?

[@bskprasad]

you are intense

[@moritzkopsch]

Hey can you pls make a vido about betting depression

[@joonsanglee3461]

Really great video! Love the ideas but next time please GIVE US CONCRETE EXAMPLES. This helps us better form an intuition about these things.

[@GarryTan]

Good idea. Thanks!

[@RameshRamloll]

Try, try and try again, then start a youtube channel :)

[@GarryTan]

LOL there's always more things to do

[@kimvangvideomarketerbangko3265]

Next video: how to determine the size of your timebox 😅

[@zedrockiby]

I don’t subscribe to this mentality...in the words of the great Robert Greene: “Anything gives way to a sustained persistent attack.”

[@robellyosief8820]

Who’s the loser who down voted the video

[@GarryTan]

Haters gonna hate!

[@johnmwangi8706]

I like this, i hv to do something about my talents