Timing Gardner Engines

Part 1: here we look at checking the valve timing on a Gardner engine.

[@Nick-e8k]

My dad rebuilt his first engine when he was 14 in about 1947. In '48 he built a motorbike and including his time in the army spent his whole life working on " proper" engines. He taught many people how to do the very basics, inclding my daughter. But not me, apparently i took to long to learn. Which says something for my daughter given she was 4 when she learnt how to check points and plugs. But watching you and listening to your explanations ( it all still passes me by), reminds me so much of my Dad. THANK YOU so much. Ps according to my dad Gardner and Perkins were "proper" But BMC could only be improved by running over them with a steam roller

[@jimself9395]

Ok, this is about the 8th video I've seen most of them with this guy about these Gardener engines. I realize the chances of finding one of these engines somewhere , in the 4 or 6 cylinder version would probably be very difficult. However I would like to find one and put it in my old F-150 . Simplicity is a Wonderful thing. Beautiful old engines.

[@jimself9395]

And then, the next video I come across is titled Gardner engines another way to waste time.😂😂 still, very cool engines

[@858493]

@@jimself9395 I know of two sitting in a shed hooked up to old generators at a place called Hollands landing in East Gippsland Australia, they used to power the old Caravan park l believe the owner is approachable for sale of these 6 Cylinders regards Doc from Down Under

[@tangentgardner]

We have four cyl and five cyl available. Please email: [e-mail]

[@858493]

Thank you for sharing l hope your family are slowly moving on from what l imagine is such a horrendous thing...like they say time heals the wounds but leaves the scars god bless.....On these engines for those that might be looking l know of Two 6 Cylinder or possibly 8 Cylinder engines sitting in a shed in a place called Hollands Landing in Eastern Victoria Australia where they powered the local caravan park and were still in running order up until recently. the owner might sell them as he needs money and is very approachable...just for the info of members wide and far regards Doc from Down Under

[@scrumpydrinker]

There is a second set of timing marks on the rear face of the flywheel with the reference scribe lines on the rear engine casing. These marks, two marks made by the centre point of a drill with a line scribed between them are found on the near side of the engine (fuel injection pump side) between the top 2 bell housing bolts on the near side and is usually covered by a sheet metal plate. They are used when there is no access to the timing marks the Joe used and are often easier to find and line up. Gardners also supplied a special tool that was fitted into no 1 injector location and indicated TDC by way of a plunger and scale, this could also be used to find the appropriate fuel injection timing points as it was calibrated in degrees before and after TDC.

[@tangentgardner]

Thanks for that. We made our own special too, from an old injector 🙂

[@stuartmiller6492]

Was a big pointer gauge that went 1 injector hole used?

[@tangentgardner]

yes, sorry, I should have mentioned that. Good point. But often of course the injectors are still in place. Thanks for pointing that out.

[@andrewlunn9618]

Would the timing chain ever need replacing like you would on many vans ?

[@tangentgardner]

Well, we always replace them, irrespective of their condition, but I am not sure everyone does. They are really substantial TRIPLEX, so they do last a very long time.

[@MrCrabbing]

Yes thanks Joe never seen in there on a Gardner, hopefully won't need to either,

[@mattyb7736]

This all assumes the injector pump is correctly set. Ive had them with varying angles between each cylinder due to incorrect setup.

[@stottybox3185]

I thought that was my phone, 2.49

[@trevormason1732]

You still have no idea about valve overlap joe have you and how to set it ? O dear o dear.

[@salamander5703]

The cams are fixed relative to each other so overlap is not changeable. All the cams are separate units slid onto the camshaft and located by screws. Overlap is set by the position of the counter sunk holes in the camshaft which the cam locating screws fasten into and was as chosen during development of the engine all those years ago by the factory. It is also affected by cam profile and radius of the followers, but they too are factory chosen and not changeable.

[@MPSVintageDiesels]

@@salamander5703 But the overlap is changeable from wear on the cam and tappets from use. What Trevor is alluding to is that this video completely misses the bit of the process that the Gardner documentation details on correcting the cam position for valve overlap to account for any wear present and also misses that the cam chainwheel is slotted so aligning the dots with the elastic band doesn't actually mean the cam is timed correctly. The following is from the Gardner documentation for LX, LXB, LXC, LXCT. CHECKING THE VALVE TIMING Prior to checking valve timing adjust the timing chain until it is tight and the inlet and exhaust tappets to the following clearances. LX, HLX □.020 in. (0 .508 mm) LXB, HLXB with 5B cams0.020 in. (D.508 mm) LXB, HLXB, LXC, LXCT 0.020 in. (D.508 mm) HLXCT with 50 cams □.025 in. (D.635 mm) Set No. 1 cylinder at TDC, exhaust stroke and proceed as follows: 1.- Rotate the engine anti-clockwise (looking at the chain case end) to approximately 20 B.T.D.C. 2 . Rotate the engine very slowly clockwise until the inlet valve is at the point of opening. This can be determined by rapidly and repeatedly moving the inlet valve lever sideways on the shaft against the spring and allowing it to return under the action of the spring until the valve lever is felt to 'nip' the valve stem tip; this is the point of valve opening. 3. Take a reading of the crankshaft disc or quadrant pointer. 4. Continue slowly rotating the engine past TDC until the exhaust valve closes. This can be determined by trying to slide the exhaust valve lever sideways along the shaft. The lever will be 'nipped' by the valve up to the point of valve closure when it will be freed to slide along the shaft; this is the point of valve closure. 5. Take a reading of the crankshaft disc or quadrant pointer. The maximum permissible timing is: LX, HLX Engines: Inlet valve opens 11 ° before TDC Exhaust valve closes 11° after TDC LXB, HLXB, LXC, LXCT, HLXCT: Inlet valve opens 16.1/4° before TDC Exhaust valve closes 11 .3/4° after TDC Valve overlap = 28 ° Under no circumstances must any inlet valve open before 16.1/4 ° before TDC or the exhaust valve close more than 11.3/4° after TDC or piston/valve contact may result. NOTE: When checking timing, particularly on an engine which has seen considerable service, the valve overlap will be reduced due to wear on cams and tappets. It is desirable to arrange the timing so that it lies equally between the above timing figures. Example: LXB/LXCT Inlet opens 17° before TDC Exhaust closes 8° after TDC Valve overlap= 25° Loss of overlap= specified - actual= 28°-25°=3° This overlap loss should be divided equally between inlet and exhaust i.e. 1 .1 /2° each thus. Inlet open 16.1/4°-1.1/2°=14.3/4° before TDC Exhaust closes 11.3/4°-1.1/2°=10.1/4° after TDC N.B. The valve timing MUST be checked on every cylinder. Adjust the valve timing by movement of the valve camshaft sprocket on its hub to give these figures. When timing is completed the timing chain must be re-adjusted to the correct running tension (see Routine Maintenance) and the tappets re-adjusted to the correct running clearances as shown on page 7-8. "

[@salamander5703]

@@MPSVintageDiesels You are right but I was pointing out that you can't change the amount of overlap. However you can measure it and use it to get the camshaft timing correct by following the procedure from the handbook and that would also be necessary to get correct timing to account for cam and follower wear in service, as you suggest. Thanks for comprehensive reply!