Timothy Snyder: Freedom as a Value and a Task - a Talk in Kyiv | UkraineWorld Podcast

Why is freedom the highest value? Are we really born free? Or is freedom instead a great task and mission for both society and the individual to achieve? Why is the negative idea of freedom (freedom from) not sufficient today, and why should we strive for positive freedom, the freedom to? What can the experiences of Ukraine and Eastern Europe tell us about other parts of the world about this value of freedom?
This episode is a recording of Timothy Snyder’s conversation with the Ukrainian cultural and intellectual community, organized by PEN Ukraine and UkraineWorld on September 6, 2023. The conversation was moderated by Volodymyr Yermolenko, a Ukrainian philosopher, president of PEN Ukraine, and the chief editor of UkraineWorld.
Timothy Snyder regularly travels to Ukraine. We had this conversation during his visit to Ukraine in early September 2023. He traveled to the southern regions affected by the war and also stayed in Kyiv to finalize his new book about freedom.
We dedicate this conversation to the memory of Ihor Kozlovskyi, a prominent Ukrainian intellectual, religious scholar, and activist, who passed away on September 6th.
Thinking in Dark Times is a podcast series by UkraineWorld. This series seeks to make Ukraine and the current war a focal point of our common reflection about the world’s present, past, and future. We try to see the light through and despite the current darkness.
This talk represents the final episode of the PEN Ukraine’s project «Dialogues On War». Since March 2022, Ukrainian and foreign intellectuals talked about Russia’s war against Ukraine and the ways to support Ukraine within the project.
UkraineWorld is brought to you by Internews Ukraine, one of the largest Ukrainian media NGOs.
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🎙 Volodymyr Yermolenko - Ukrainian philosopher and journalist, chief editor
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#StandWithUkraine #TimothySnyder

[@markfrommontana]

Freedom and responsibility go hand in hand. So much to think about in these troubled times. Thank you to all the organizers and participants and especially to these brilliant speakers.

[@Sveshiniekslv]

Свобода не просто идет вместе с ответственностью. Свобода - это принятие ответственности за свои поступки. Ребенок не свободен, поэтому не несет ответственности за свои поступки. Блаженный Августин противоречия между Ветхим и Новым Заветами объяснял тем, что Ветхий Завет был написан для людей, чье сознание было на уровне ребенка. Новый Завет написан для уже зрелых людей. В Исповеди он пишет, что Иисус Христос превратил христиан из рабов Господних в его детей. А дети вырастают и становятся свободны от опеки родителей. В этом смысле называть свободой свободу от чего-либо вообще не имеет смысла.

[@henriikkak2091]

Indeed. I think this is why democracy failed in Russia. No one -- not even the czar himself -- is willing to take responsibility for their actions or of their lives.

[@ssmarichka]

Thank you, Timothy and Volodymyr, for an amazing discussion. The triangle of freedom - responsibility - feeling of guilt for still not enough being done vs self-victimization and lack of feeling of guilt on the other side coupled with the last thought on the values that are created based on what no one could have even reasonably asked about are a striking thoughts - thank you for highlighting these. Much to reflect upon! Слава Україні!

[@marisabenson1222]

Thankyou Timothy Snyder for all the information and interesting discussions.

[@user-tu4rn8ui9u]

Profound conversation. Tim Snyder is one of the most important and worthy public intellectuals of our time, in my view. As an American, the idea of “freedom” without responsibility is a terribly immature interpretation. Stand with Ukraine. 🇺🇦

[@julmye]

This is the most powerful video I’ve watched in years. Thank you so much.

[@annabarabanna7668]

Have listened to the podcast and here again. Thank you for the wonderful conversation!

[@user-eu2eh6et9s]

I’ve been saying for a few years that Freedom is an empty word. It seems like Freedom has caused a lot of the problems in our society for the last decade, since nearly every American has interpreted it exactly how Tim Snyder advises not to: I can do whatever I want.

[@davidford761]

❤A most brilliant thought inducing your de force ❤< one of Tim’s very best

[@Sergii_Dubeniuk]

Thanks for this video! From Ukraine 🇺🇦✊👊 Дякую за Ваші думки, є поживний грунт для роздумів у темні часи нашої Боротьби!

[@barrettzbrowning]

Slava Ukraine Heroyam Slava

[@yoemailduh]

One of the best conversations I’ve ever heard… about Ukraine, about philosophy, about history, about how to live.

[@ludmilaparkhomenko889]

Дякую, ви великі молодці

[@sophiedaoust9864]

This conversation, from the very beginning to the very end, is so profoundly thought-provoking and beautiful, and inspirational… I’m kind of dizzy with all the meaning and implications and réflexions provoked by those ideas. ❤😮😊

[@marcaureliopozzi4216]

Thank you very much, this is a brilliant discussion and debate.

[@Pascal-uq8gw]

Rarely all people in a live session come to bloom so brightly at once. ❤ This is a truly amazing performance, all at the right time

[@dsjwhite]

There are people who have such understanding and such humanity that it fills me with awe. Mr Snyder is one of those. Thank you.

[@sophiedaoust9864]

Same feeling here ❤ it’s like when he talks, things that were disorganized in my head just fall in place and everything makes sense when M. Snyder talks ❤

[@9ragis]

🇺🇦👏👏👏 What a tour de force & thought provoking conversation by Volodymyr and TS : more philosophical than historical. The q’s from the floor were top quality too. I always thought that there’s something Zappa’esque about Timothy Snyder. Now I know why 😂. Spot on analysis on why #russiaisapariah and why the philosophers and free thinkers #supportUkraine and #StandWithUkraine

[@drreaganeliedithphd6526]

Solidarité souveraine

[@beverleywilson4091]

Dr Snyder's comment about the nurse at Bergen Belsen and that the prisoners were not actually free after the 'Liberation' after the defeat of Hitler, made me think of the abolition of slavery during and after the Civil War. The enslaved people were 'technically' free but as a practical matter they could not go through the gates, or they could but it was dangerous to do so. (And I take into account that there were brave and competent former enslaved people who made a great start at the beginning of Reconstruction.)

[@michaelsibson7941]

1:42:06 do u think that trump and the fascist wing of the old gop are working directly for putin and 1:42:06 against self determination or is their purpose to creat a new type of fascism who's goal is loot only. 😊

[@csours]

I'm going to have to listen to this again, but the discussion around 30:00 is the clearest description of my problem with popular progressive discussion. To be entirely clear, I MUCH prefer progressives to any other political movement, but the answer to all the problems we have is not simply removing existing corrupt power structures, it is also all the work that need to be done to ensure that we all see each other as human.

[@itwasntme9687]

Thank you so much! 💙💛

[@joanyoon4672]

So true. We forget democracy comes ftom guarding values and upholding standards. Otherwise human selfishness will open doors to polarities.

[@drreaganeliedithphd6526]

Liberté nous permit être autonome

[@lancechapman3070]

Unpredictability is, maybe, a form of moral entropy. Always involved, sometimes driving.

[@AlexdaCunha]

Excellent starting question!

[@Cisssana]

'Freedom is the appreciation of necessity…. Freedom does not consist in the dream of independence of natural laws, but in the knowledge of these laws and in the possibility this gives of systematically making them work towards definite ends. ' (Engels, Anti-Dühring, New York; 1939.)

[@kseniamaryniak3833]

Valeri Ananiev (Markus): "Свобода - це не дар, а привілей, за який потрібно заплатити велику ціну." Freedom is not a gift, it’s a privilege that comes at a high cost.

[@kj1483]

1:04:40 Havel was a Czech statesman, author, poet, playwright and former dissident. Havel served as the last president of Czechoslovakia prior to the dissolution of Czechoslovakia, before he became the first president of the Czech Republic in 1993 - The Plastic People of the Universe is a Czech rock band from Prague. They are considered the foremost representatives of Prague's underground culture, which defied Czechoslovakia's Communist regime. Banned and jailed under Czech communism, the Plastic People of the Universe helped to bring the regime down in 1989. Inspired by Frank Zappa and the Velvet Underground, and friends with Vaclav Havel, their incredible 40-year history is one in which music and politics are inseparable. Many rock musicians have preached revolution, although few can claim to have sparked one - but Brabenec, saxophonist and clarinettist for the Plastic People of the Universe, did. Indeed, of all the revolutions against communism that felled the Iron Curtain and transformed Europe 20 years ago, only one could claim rock'n'roll as its catalyst: that in Czechoslovakia, called the "Velvet Revolution", partly because it was peaceful - the clenched fist wearing a velvet glove - but also because the band that unwittingly lit the fuse, the Plastic People, were heavily influenced by the Velvet Underground. This is the most extraordinary story that ever entwined politics and rock music swiped off 1st page google and the Guardian

[@Yasen99]

An interesting idea indeed - the US was strongly opposed to the dissolution of the USSR! Really? Then why did the US recognize the declarations of independence by the Union republics in 1991-92? Why didn’t the American government throw its endorsement behind the Emergency Committee in August of 1991? Why did the US condemn and threaten sanctions against the measures taken by the USSR authorities to clamp down on the Baltic separatists in 1990-91? Why didn’t the American government convey its deep dissatisfaction to the leadership of the RSFSR regarding its push to dismantle the Union-level structures? At the time the RSFSR leadership was counting on the vital financial and economic assistance from the West - so Western governments wielded enormous clout and could apply effective pressure on Yeltsin and Co. The issue is not that the US was opposed to the breakup of the USSR but it was concerned about HOW CHAOTIC the process may get. As long as the dismantling was happening in a relatively coordinated and manageable way, the West was all in its favor.

[@lancechapman3070]

Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.

[@NicholBrummer]

This reminds me a lot of 'skin in the game' by Taleb. No way to escape responsibility, and taking part. Ethics cannot be outsourced.

[@thefisherking78]

Please level the volume up a little bit. I have it cranked on my phone and I can barely hear it over road noise right next to my ear

[@drreaganeliedithphd6526]

On ne peut pas avoir liberté sans responsabilité

[@ShawnStradamus520]

“Joyful is the hocus m pocus that's haunting all mankind Said he couldn't be what he needs to be you see He and only he is free Well, he who is truly free (Say) Free from the need to be free” - Better By The Pound, Funkadelic

[@grisall]

Freedom and self-interest are not the same thing but are closely related. People who throw quotes about self-interest by American founders always leave out the founders first word on that subject, "responsible". They fought for liberty (freedom) and RESPONSIBLE self-interest and certainly not freedom to infringe upon others freedoms.

[@drreaganeliedithphd6526]

Dessus liberté on doit avoir intelligence émotionnelle

[@drreaganeliedithphd6526]

Erickson étages de vie en développement

[@philippajoy4300]

I'm not finding multiple questions work. Doubtless because I'm not a philosopher. But it's the fashion in talks atm and what is the value of confusing non-specialists?

[@deanejoyce5393]

Great conversation. I really enjoyed it and would encourage you both to interview with Jonathan Fink of Silicon Curtain. I would like to put forward a notion that I used to create predictive models that have proven to be extremely resilient. To do so you have to create a baseline that all humans are effected by. That baseline appears to be that all humans live under a punitive justice system… a punitive justice system is a system that attempts to balance a punishment with a perceived crime… this removes the outdated concept of left and right and ideologies… they cease to be relevant in the calculus to predict human behavior, which is extremely useful in predictive analysis… it makes the “ problem” as simple as it can be while not over simplifying it…. Having determined that the baseline is a system, then being a system there are naturally products and byproducts, that the system creates. There are 6 useful products that a punitive justice system creates. 2 of these are relevant to this conversation. They are: assumptions… you cannot judge another human being without making an assumption… in other words you cannot not make an assumption in a punitive justice system… this is important as Dietrich Dorner in his book “ the logic of failure” proved that all human failure comes from having made an assumption… the 2nd product such a system creates is freedom, but because of assumptions that freedom is always finite… limitless freedom cannot exist on the planet inside a punitive justice system… this useful ad being finite, now you can measure it to gauge the health of a punitive justice system. Eg, USA might be a 7/10… Ukraine might be a 3/10… Russia would be

[@strezztechnoid]

Good call, a few people have mentioned a conversation with Jonathan, it might just happen. I would also suggest Timothy consider a conversation with Vlad Velxer. Consider Vlad has some notions differing enough to be an exercise which could prove to be clarifying.

[@deanejoyce5393]

@@strezztechnoid Yes, Vlad is great. Jonathan has been doing a lot of activism and finding ways to strengthen Ukraine, to put these really good thoughts into action. To have the west stop seeing Ukraine through a Russian lens, but be part of and integral to a free world, where they stand ( legitimately) as a bastion and one of the leaders of that world… ergo freedom creates ideas. Ideas create wealth.

[@missh1774]

I think there is a misunderstanding about the meaning of zero and the incremental complex levels and fields to move in and out of 0 to 1 or 0 to -1.

[@lonecandle5786]

How do you spell this "lesha coalacoaskee" that he keeps mentioning?

[@randomdude7384]

The Russian "national idea" is, indeed, hopelessness.

[@Yasen99]

I wonder what Russian sources you are basing this conclusion on.

[@The1DUIGuy]

A good, healthy meal for my brain. So much better than the copious amount of junk food sucking up oxygen of the masses. Thank you.

[@cyberiankorninger1025]

He is a bit too much American Progressive for me but I still like to listen to his ideas and his unshakeable support for Ukraine

[@sophiedaoust9864]

Well I think he actually is much more a real intellectual where he doesn’t fit in just one group or the other. But of course when he talks about colonialism in Ukraine and Europe he goes through a American progressive theme, but I believe he treats it differently (he is a historian after all). I love his talks very much :)

[@joepanzica]

Moral pluralism is important, but so is moral realism in the sense he uses here - especially in the idea of “creating new realities”. Plato therefore was wrong if he really meant that there is some realm of “forms” (or values) which is THE ultimate reality or the source of all realities. I suspect we exist in universe of “plural realities” where new values and new realities are constantly being created, but that these new realities (far from being merely dependent on the circumstances from which they “emerged”) exert a great influence on the forms of reality that preceded them.

[@missh1774]

I think there is a misunderstanding about the meaning of zero and the complexities between 1 or -1

[@julioreija8052]

2:32 Hey! We philosophers have been trying to talk to y’all for centuries!! 😂 You just don’t want to stop yourselves nor the world long enough to do it and finally solve it!! 🤪

[@karelvsedlacek9333]

What are you going to do with your 'freedom from'? What 'freedom to' will you do...that will be constructive...as a person and as a society?

[@MarieGobeille]

🙏💡🌀 🐾🐾🐾 « Le monde sommeille par manque d’imprudence », Jacques Brel, 🎼Jojo🎼🐾🐾🐾🌀💡🙏

[@kseniamaryniak3833]

Negative freedom = anarchy

[@drreaganeliedithphd6526]

Tous les pays en Union européenne ont perdu empires

[@NicholBrummer]

I see many parallells with climate activism. Why fight against impossible opponents?

[@itsgoodforyou4235]

Snyder used to be a scientist.

[@rosemarygreenfelder]

Promo>SM 👍

[@Edo9River]

Only the animal is truly free

[@kseniamaryniak3833]

You just have to remove one thing: untruth

[@spanellaful]

This comment section is a weird place

[@drreaganeliedithphd6526]

France ont perdu colonies en Indochine et Maroc, Algérie, et Lybie et Liban

[@RokasKundrotas]

Thanks for an interesting topic. Unfortunately his explanation of positive and negative freedom sounds rhetoric, and not very well defined. As well as his explanation of responsibility. And his response to Russian empire questions seems to be very vague and evasive. Of course Russian Federation is an Empire. And their expansion to the east was followed by murders, rapes and pillaging. And not by Xenia of Saint Petersburg or Macarius of Unzha trailblazing a road to Alaska. Russian Empire did it in 17th, 18th, and 21 centuries. Russian population does not accept responsibility for the murder of peaceful population, since they were brought up to kill, and pillage and expand their empire.

[@timstapleman]

Timothy Snyder on marxism "There's only 1 bad thing: property." He's a great intellectual, so he must be right.

[@seanmc1453]

If you listen to the podcast you will find this quote/comment is obviously taken out of context.

[@timstapleman]

@@seanmc1453 I did listen to the podcast

[@Yasen99]

You have to appreciate Snyder’s task - he has to adorn his ideas with humanistic babble. But he cannot move in the direction of Marxism. What’s left? What’s left is “critical theory”, a critique of power shorn of its class foundations. Communism is bad. Fascism is bad. Neoliberalism is now bad as well. What’s left?

[@zaporizhzhya1036]

Ukraine needs to be rich. That way, they can buy their own weapons.

[@Yasen99]

And manufacture them!

[@JameBlack]

нічо не поняв

[@workingproleinc.676]

Westerner Goblygock,waste of time

[@davidbrancaleone3039]

RF invasion = waste of time and violent imposition on others. Trying to figure things out is not and generates what gets punished in Nova Russia: FREEDOM OF SPEECH. If you don't get it, you must be yet another RF TROLL.

[@kilogolfbravo9567]

Freedom to wear Levi jeans and a 25 year mortgage 😂😂😂😂