Forge welded inlay?

[@AlecSteele]

I love this experimentation with the laser you’ve been doing! So cool!

[@FeelingLikeThatNow]

Frickin laser beams! Love your channel too!

[@shanewheeler713]

Hey Alec you should try this with Titanium!!!!! 😁

[@kyleeames8229]

These up-and-comers are really interesting. Do you know about Kyle Royer? He’s more conventional but his craftsmanship is mind-blowing!

[@theslacksmith]

Tim! The reason you’re seeing that grainy look where the powder lies and getting weakness from the grooves is because of a lack of powder compaction. I learned powder mosaics from Steve schwarzer a few years back and the one thing he drilled into me over and over is that in order for a successful powder weld to happen, you need a 30% reduction in volume across the board. Your inlays would actually benefit from more forging (maybe beveling or just reduction of thickness at least) at welding heat in order to compact and fully weld the powder. It should not show up grainy in the final product at all if you do it properly. Good luck!

[@noahstephens7622]

TIM. Please like or reply to this so we can know you have seen it!!! Steve KNOWS his stuff. Btw this is sick. Can’t wait to see what you come up with. Endless possibilities.

[@benkirkland5354]

Schwarzer’s 3D-print+powder-pattern-welded-canisters are also a pretty sweet method. Another possible experiment!

[@theslacksmith]

@@benkirkland5354 I helped invent that technique with him a few years back!

[@theslacksmith]

Dont be afraid to forge it on the edge either! it needs compaction from multiple axis. if its a good weld, you wont have any issues with it splitting. I would do another welding cycle after you get the initial stick in the canister. Once its off, you can refine the welds under you hammer

[@kwaaaa]

Your exploration into these uncharted areas is so interesting!

[@IanZ_Forge]

I have been enjoying these past few videos and this exploration 🤠🙏

[@Pancakes479]

That scroll looked amazing before grinding the bevels! Excited to see a second attempt.

[@godofflames5427]

you are so much more optimistic than I would've been after breaking that blade good on you man keep going loving the process

[@WarkWarbly]

You have completely amped up metal work on KZbin. This specified etching process is awesome. I hope this turns into something you're not only proud of, but something you can call the legacy you left the world with!

[@yellowdogbladeworks]

Love the experimentation Tim! Big kudos for not totally losing it when it snapped, I probably would have. 😅

[@glennbayley5863]

Timothy that is absolutely spectacular congratulations.🎉

[@BrandonBarnhart]

Make your pattern steel/Damascus billet. EDM out your scroll/pattern you want on top of it, clear through the billet. Make your canoe and fill it with powder. Your powder will be through and through making a solid billet. If you want scroll work, use EDM wire machine and cut your scroll clear through. Other geometric shapes can be plunge cut via a peck method. This method will give you a traditional Damascus (wire rope, raindrop, twist...) and allow you to put detail on top of it. You could also skip the traditional Damascus and just EDM your whole pattern. Might be cool to mix both methods.

[@nicholaskillmeier4895]

I love that you're experimenting with this stuff! Really makes me want to try it. I think it would be an awesome technique for fittings. I'm assuming your can weld went well. I don't know how you get sufficient soak times in a coal forge like that. It sounds like it went well, but as a rule of thumb, I let my cans soak at least a few minutes AFTER I see the colors I want on the outside. Some people say soak a whole 40 minutes. I haven't found that necessary. I'm pretty violent with setting my guards, and I've never had that happen. The grain size didn't look that bad based on the video at least (hard to tell with feeling it with my fingers honestly) So either you need to work on your tempering, or there was a micro fracture there you just didn't see, and got unlucky. As soon as ferric gets in there, it's over, surprised it didn't show itself sooner. I got sick of beating guards on and use a guard press now days. It means you need to pay attention to the taper of your tang so it works right, and you can't just beat your way past a sloppy tag. Has elevated my fitups to a new level honestly. But if you didn't beat on it, you might have never found out, and ended up getting hurt with it later. So I'd count this as a blessing.

[@mattgraham1983]

Dam.... well the idea has potential, it will be intresting to see if the deeper the inlay is the less clarity 🤔 solid idea👏

[@Oldtanktapper]

Really cool project! One thought I had while watching was that the laser may be nice but might not be the best tool for removing stock to the depth you need. Maybe try and use chemical etching instead? You could apply a resist to the blade and use the laser to cut it away in the pattern you want, then chemically etch it the rest of the way.

[@robertr4193]

Pretty neat idea for your design.

[@toddfoster9034]

Tim you should try cutting all the way through the original stock then fill the empty space with powdered steel to see how much better it would work...i'm sure the results will amaze people

[@s1gne]

That laser is an awesome tool to have in the workshop. Maybe you could try lasering after a knife is ready and then apply an etch, maybe that could have a nice look too. I figure that the laser has sharp/straight edges and the etch etches that out, rounds off the corners so to speak.

[@blakecrossing]

I can’t wait for when you figure out how to combine this with Damascus too. The knives are gonna look so good.

[@Solid_Punch]

"I'm not sure why that is" on 17:54 - that is either because you haven't cleaned oxide from lazer grooves, or haven't smoothed the bottom of the grooves enough. Or both.

[@earthknight60]

The sharp angle the laser cut may be a stress riser as well. Maybe needs to figure out some method of rounding the corners.

[@Solid_Punch]

@@earthknight60 maybe make lazer cuts a bit smaller than needed, and after the lazer engrave with an engraving tool with rounded end?

[@Dyavalon]

Such a fascinating process, thank you for taking us along for the trial and error. The engineer in me LOVES to see the evaluation in progress. I wonder if a brief abrasive, like sand blasting, to clear the surface oxide from the etching immediately prior to setting in the can? And as others have said, probably more compaction in the welding process. Flypress is good, big-ass hammer and anvil might be best?

[@givannoraices6605]

Tim your a black smith cut your own files and if that seems to tedious use the laser to see how it compares

[@andizell2255]

Quite the underrated comment 👌 Great idea. I would love to watch a video like this

[@bobwallace5257]

I was thinking there’s no way it would work but when you reveal the etch I was amazed!! You got yourself a new subscriber!

[@tiagovale4651]

Make a folding pocket knife, you already have the blade

[@JustinYoung-e4n]

Looks like it broke at the first part of the laser cut. Did you clean out the laser burn before forging the powder in? There’s going to be two layers on the surface that you want to beadblast out of there. First layer is decarb and the second is where it didn’t get quite hot enough to burn away and is full of micro-cracks. You might also want yo run any lines that go under the guard perpendicular instead of parallel to the guard right along the edge where they meet.

[@MrDaveyboy1985]

You need to clean the engraving with a wire wheel to improve the weld if you didn't. Also why not move your press to the left of your forge so then you don't have to leg it across your workshop with an incredibly hot piece of metal? Looks like there is space there for it, you might get better welds too

[@paullmight42]

That was unfortunate but it looked AMAZING

[@kyleeames8229]

14:44 There’s a technique I’ve seen others use when fitting guards where they coat the interior of the slot with marking fluid, gently tap it on, pull it off and file away where the coating is worn away until the part fits in position perfectly. It could save you the heartache of watching hours of work snap in half.

[@MrSkeleton16]

Thats so clever. This has never occured to me. You could do so many cool things with this.

[@glennbayley5863]

Absolutely fantastic. I cannot believe you have got such a brilliant attitude. I can't wait for your next knife

[@madmikewood]

Amazing work mate

[@maneotis4g63t]

So cool to see the innovation.

[@b0rd3n]

Great stuff - i'm over it, too. Take care, from an ex BC now in QC!

[@shanewheeler713]

A failure means your on the road to success. Mate love the Idea and the possibilities of what your doing hear I don't think anybody else is doing this keep up the good work. cheers...

[@NineWorldsWorkshop]

Really slick stuff, it gets the gears turning! I've been really enjoying watching this process develop!

[@chrisangelone3349]

This idea is brilliant. I think you should keep going with this idea and see what you come up with if you laser etch a little deeper to reduce the loss when you heat treat and grind it down. I think there are a ton of cool things you can do with this idea you’ve created. Long time watcher of your KZbin channel. Keep up the great work brotha.

[@kyleeames8229]

16:23 It’s still a banger video! This kind of experimentation is very novel; I’m not sure if I’ve seen this anywhere else. With these kinds of breakthroughs in artistic metalworking, it doesn’t do to be dissuaded by a few early failures. This is what I subbed for. We believe in you!

[@bevanwilson5642]

One way of putting the powder down without a canister and where you want it is to use a eutalloy metal spraying torch. The eutalloy powder comes in lots of different alloys and the powder you used may work as well. The blade looked really good

[@kwbknives7989]

Awesome! Powder steel has to be forged down quite a lot in order to guarantee a solid billet, most people say you have to reduce the dimension by half, so that could be why you're seeing a grainy texture, but to be honest given the set up I think it's worked very well. You could also try filling the engraving by brazing and that would let you rough grind in bevels first, save you a bit of time on the laser. Black and bronze is a good combo! Good luck!

[@TheIdeanator]

Regarding that straight fracture, yeah, that inlay is absolutely the culprit for the failure. I'd edit the etch so that instead of there being a straight edge on the back, that it feathers out under the guard, either by thinning and rounding it out or by adding kind of a soft rounded zig zag into the tang to break up that edge, which is fine as itll all be hidden by the guard and handle. also from a metallurgy perspective, the way to sinter powders is to have a long soak time at temperature, so cooking it in an argon box for i dunno, maybe a few hours at whatever temp the mfg recommends (might need to do some searching here for the same powder from a different supplier) should get the densification you need in addition to what you can get on the flypress.

[@Ramen4Days]

That and man the brass looked tight and looked like Tim was hammering hard. Probably would have survived if not for the straight etch, but who knows

[@brittsellers3627]

I was just getting ready to say to try to make a lesser extreme transition. However, with the laser, would it be necessary to have it etched the entire piece or would it be possible to just etch a certain area or code it differently so that the laser would not etch just a sold rectangle around the pattern?

[@bobthecomputerguy]

That turned out far better than I was expecting. I think you're on to something here.

[@johnnyho900]

I’m not over it!

[@_Error_404_Goodbye]

Cool idea, a suggestion to help you save some time and frustration in the future. When you have a cool idea like this, test on a small throw away piece so that if something doesn’t go right, you’re not out all that work and the remaining sanity you’re grasping into lol. I’ve been there myself, it’s no fun and too taxing from the stress for literally no reason lol. Test materials are what you experiment/learn with, then apply what you’ve learned to the final piece. If materials are low, then that’s different, but if you can, try and always test on scrap first, even if the material isn’t exactly what you’re going to use on the final piece. Cool video 👌🏼

[@aformalevent]

you nailed it! nicely done my friend :D I really appreciate you sharing your explorations like this.

[@eaglpaul1]

Bummer it didn't work out, but it was really cool. I think this experiment shows this technique is entirely possible and I look forward to continuing on this journey with you. Keep up the good work, can't wait to see what you make in the future. Also, cool jacket, I might have to pick one up for myself now.

[@danielrussell452]

That lazer is cool, great video keep up the good work, as Smith's were allways learning nothing is a failure 👍

[@rickhall5399]

I think the issue you had with the pattern looking granny at the bottom is because the ferric chloride ate the Powdered steel .You need to switch the powdered steel to the 1520 Powder. It resists etching therefore it won’t eat it out. Have fun. I think you’re doing great.

[@wmose3694]

you might try laser etching and then filling the pattern with brazing rod while working on getting the depth you are looking for as well as a cool end product

[@JoeAmericanLiberty]

I'm not a metal worker. I really like what you're doing. The fiber laser with steel inlay is unlike anything that anyone is doing as far as I know. I've always wanted a fiber laser. I'm curious about the cost effectiveness vs other forms of inlay. I see guys doing guns with hand scrollwork and a soft metal inlay like silver and gold. I realize the durability is probably much better, but time and metal cost vs payoff. I guess, is there a faster way than forging powder? Also, as someone that uses vectors for paint and stencils, getting rid of the super fine details typically produces better finished results. I feel like your patterns are ambitious for experimental. Perhaps trying some chunky thicker designs might help nail the process on depth of laser cut and then forging. Just ideas. Love the thought behind all of it.

[@rustjupiter]

Great video Tim thanks for making great content

[@Nogard666]

Maybe waiting the time it would take to laser the scrolling all of the way through the blade would keep it from fading away with the bevel? Though that would probably take running the laser for 2-3 days.

[@weldeadlobes86]

I always forget how much i love that coal forge until i see it lol

[@UNVIRUSLETALE]

Looks like a magic weapon (or at least half of one), so cool

[@virtusleather]

Chin up and keep atter Tim! Fascinating content!

[@DarioushAryan]

Great job man Beautiful & inspirational

[@An_Attempt]

This is a very cool idea. And there is a reason we do experiments. We don't know what will happen.

[@stagesmith]

Rough grind your blade with the bevel. Laser etch your pattern and then nickel-braze over the pattern. There is an aerospace product called Nicrobraz. Made by Wall-Colmonoy. Very high nickel content brazing material. Far less risky as a process. I like your deep laser etching. Lots of possibilities

[@LeVraiPoio]

Still a banger video, we learnt a lot there ! I think the main pb is the layout of the pattern giving a weakness right at the usual weakest point in any knife. Basically it's a shortcut for fracture. You said the powered steel isn't perfectly welded. I guess it didn't give the soft steel jacket quality needed to compensate that hard core. If the motif blends into the guard and tang that may help, if the welded powder has no flaw. Other idea : fit the guard to the tang before hardening. (That doesn't address the brittleness though, just lets you to ignore it.) One more thing that may have played a role is the guard, but I haven't expertise to be honest. I think if it's less a bulk, it may deform to accomodate the form of the tang rather than have the tang deform to it, with a shearing force. I'd narrow it a bit. Also I wonder if the laser cut might not have had a local effect on its hardness (iirc it should be in your favor though). I have a suggestion, but that throws the experiment with powder out of the window. Make a jacket such that you have : thin layer of black - somewhat thin layer of grey soft - core of hard steel - somewhat thin grey soft - thinner black. Engrave so that you reveal the grey. Press / hammer it flat. Go on as usual. Short version : transpose mokume gane technique. I expect you a less crisp motif though.

[@oculusangelicus8978]

I have a slightly different idea for you Timothy, how about using the laser to cut pieces out entirely of your metals and assembling them to be forge welded? that way the pattern will be through the entire piece, just a suggestion, you might have already tried this, but it might be worth a shot for you. The laser would be able to cut the pieces with enough precision that assembly should result in a very cool result, but you would likely be limited by the detail. OR by using the Laser to cut the pattern all the way through the core, then filling in the space with the powder might also allow the weld to be much better and then the pattern will not be removed when grinding in the bevel.

[@brysonalden5414]

I recommend investing in a proper heat treating oven, if you're going to continue. Temperature control in HT makes a big difference. I also wondered why not forge/grind the blade to shape, then hit it with the laser, then use Brass Black to emphasize the pattern? If you made the whole thing out of 15n20 and used Brass Black on the pattern it should work nicely.

[@garychaiken808]

Great job. Thank you 😊

[@Pablo668]

I think this technique has a lot of potential. Don't be too hard on yourself, that's our job (jk). Seriously, you are out there makinf knives, that makes you an order of magnitude better than me, who just sits here watching people make knives. (I am a former metalworker, I just haven't built up the moxy to try yet).

[@Claudiu_Dumitru]

Every failure (kick in the butt) is a step forward. Don't give up.

[@minnesotatomcat]

Not even gonna offer an opinion after looking through the comments as I can see that every “professional bladesmith” has already told you exactly why it didn’t work 🤣🤣 interesting project, give it a good think and try again 👍

[@YoursUntruly]

This is insane man! What!!??

[@scotttod6954]

After laser you have to remove that layer of burnt steel. It will be like mill scale in the lasered parts. Either chemically or physically remove that material. I think it would be far more effective to use the laser to cut rubber ressist then put the rubber stencil on and sandblast the the patterns in.

[@williammorrin7933]

Nah man I love the thought of this. May do somethin similar for a friend.

[@minnesotatomcat]

If I win the powerball tonight I’m heading to Canada and you’re getting a proper concrete floor Timothy!

[@raph151515]

1st avoid having a perpendicular line almost the whole width of the blade because it's weakening too much 2nd maybe you need to add a chem treatment after engraving to have naked non oxidated surface in the grooves so help welding 3rd maybe try some other way of filling the grove other than powder. You could use a different metal and brase it (brass?) or even try some electro plating (selective with a mask around the engraving, to avoid plating 1 pound)

[@davidbendig961]

it did look sooo good... am I over it? No! please get a welder and Tig the handle back on or cut a keyhole into the piece and connect a handle that way. Inlays are a pain to make and green beetle has made a great video showing his struggles trying to create such a knive which might inspire you 😇

[@kyleeames8229]

I normally don’t put more than 2 comments on a video (it just feels spammy,) but it occurred to me that the laser could be forming an oxide layer that interferes with the forge weld. You may need to chemically reduce or remove the oxides before attempting the forge weld. I did a little research for you and found you can selectively target iron oxides by using oxalic acid or acetic acid (vinegar.) This will react very little with the unoxidized metal but will clean away the oxides formed by the laser very well.

[@attainableapex]

would be cool to almost finish forging, laser a pattern, then do final forging

[@piotrpiotr358]

sometimes is good sometimes is shit.... another day another lesson. nice vid man.

[@Flying0Dismount]

The laser cut basically acted as a score line for the blade to break across.. Avoid straight lines across the blade in your future designs, and you also need to maybe change the power level or duty cycle on the laser on the last few passes to "clean" the surface and then hand forge the powder down a lot more after the initial canister weld.. It might also come out better if you pre-ground or pre-forged the blade into rough shape with the beginning of the bevels before laser engraving so that you don't end up grinding the bottom part of the design off.. 60 thou is more than enough if you pre-form the blade so not so much material has to be ground off...

[@MadebyKourmoulis]

Gonna change the game.

[@PeachRamune123]

I think it would be a cool idea to start the blade with damascus, laser the design and fill the design with another third type of steel or powder. also what does heat treating the blade in a pipe instead of just in the forge do? edit: spelling

[@PatheticPeasant]

Maybe try forging the bevels in a bit instead of stock removal you'll be able to keep more depth. You'd have to forge it in a way as to not draw it out though which would change the shape of the design or ruin it. Idk.

[@wobbadubbaskyrim]

today i learned Canadian angle grinders needs to be started like a stick welder.

[@DrumSmithRich]

Great idea. Curious if you annealed the whole piece after forge weld not just normalized? Grain looks a little course but not crazy course. Maybe the different steels deformed differently under stress? Maybe move the pattern slightly more towards the tip so the stress point of the guard isn’t so close to where the pattern sits. Or etch deep enough that the powder steel is ground away completely at the guard? Love the content keep em coming and good luck!

[@bernhard2957]

bist ein ehrlich guter mann - top schmied sowieso!

[@Tintenhaerz]

oh shieeed here we go again.... i love your content ceep up:P

[@joshgagnon7539]

gotta make layer damascus and then put that in the laser!

[@brentcoates5470]

Caliper durability tester #1

[@sebastienc8797]

Nice technique. I guess the powder lacks compaction because you droped the powder from above and couldn't force the grains to go in the engraving, meaning you'd need to press it from the sides and not from the above ?

[@rossst.hartley5487]

Wondering if trying out some clay and differentially hardening it would help and adding a hamon line might complement the scroll work nicely

[@francisschweitzer8431]

What if you do a molten pour? … red hot the engraving… and pour something shiny into the etched image

[@devindrummond7710]

maybe make the design go all the way through the metal and create a cavity that is filled in by the powder? Would eliminate the worry of going to deep.

[@agentcoulson5581]

I'm now curious what makes axe making and knife making so different! You seem to be quite an axe maker, and you mentioned not being a good knife maker, so what differentiates those? What constitutes a good axe maker versus a good knife maker?

[@dragonrider6875]

Tim, A couple of things from the manufacturing standpoint. no squares it creates a stress point. So I would try a oval instead of a square. Try to avoid any corners. I really like the laser experiment. why not cut all the way through. put a level amount of powered and the sit the blade in that. continue filling and and vibrate well. seal up and forge. I wonder if the press that you are using is not quite giving enough pressure to full set the weld? rider68

[@VintageMillenial]

Best advice I can give so it doesn't happen again....don't do that😂 I'm sorry man that was such a heart breaker seeing it break

[@anthonyp4209]

I for one.... Am over it

[@captaindrp82]

Wondering if you double the depth for compaction reasons but do not bevel grind on the image. Start the bevel below the image and fan it higher as it goes towards the tip

[@JonathanDavisREP]

Carbon could have migrated into the cladding when you forge welded. The heat treat didn’t help and you could have had carbon spread out unevenly during the quench.

[@davidmech2956]

Keep the faith

[@CaioMateus-x3n]

Could you mix a percentual amount of borax powder with the powdered steel to take out the oxidation/porosity? Also be sure to clean the engraved grooves really well because of contamination

[@mtnbkr8480]

On the bright side, at least you don't have to make a handle now.

[@lorneclose7312]

Don't be over it the only thing that must bedone in order to win is to finish

[@furyus14]

Instead of using the canister welding. Use copper or aluminium to melt over the pattern. Could be an awesome combo.

[@smacksteel708]

No.

[@furyus14]

@smacksteel708 just an idea. I don't know what it's called. Where u inlay a thin rod of copper or other metals in the groves of the patterns. Saw it on alexsteel channel a while back.

[@smacksteel708]

@@furyus14engraving?

[@TCK12310]

can look cool with copper dust

[@jonnyphenomenon]

There are no mistakes, just happy accidents...

[@glennbayley5863]

Is there any way of going deeper on the blade side? I'm shallow on the spine. On the laser

[@bascorstjens9967]

I think you have to get rid of the oxides from the laser process before welding .