Timur Kuran - What Happened to the Political Center? | Eric Weinstein

[@ntyh92]

Was using my mind power to prevent Prof. Kuran's glass from tipping over the whole time lol

[@stremus249]

did it work?

[@triangleenjoyer]

Your effort is duly noted. Thank you.

[@yourfriendlyneighbourhoodr9390]

Wait, so it was you? I thought it was me.

[@hunterhamiltondvdscv2323]

@@yourfriendlyneighbourhoodr9390 No no def this guy

[@scottbignell]

Ha. First thing I noticed!

[@vegahimsa3057]

Because we once shared the same national media. Today we're all divided and divided and divided and conquered in our own private bubbles.

[@Ebergerud]

That's the truth. No internet and no social media. I remember buying my Sunday Washington Post and spending the whole afternoon taking a bath in knowledge inbound from all parts of the world - some serious some trivial. Wonderful. Gone.

[@mz7279]

We once shared an identity and values

[@pauldarling330]

Ah, yes, the heady days when the left had a complete monopoly on the conversation and you had the ability to completely shut out any discord. Now people can seek out the actual facts instead of relying on Uncle Walter to tell them what to think. Communists should have known better than to let Rush Limbaugh on the air.

[@thefirespectrum]

Hasn't divided, partisan media been a part of the political climate since the early days of the printing press? I think the difference is that the consumption of the media is taking place inside a constant, inescapable, real-time mob debate, and we know that a mob profoundly changes the way people think and behave.

[@empoweryou1]

Unfortunately, you're observation is valid. I agree.

[@adamsmith307]

There’s more of us in the centre. We must resist, even with the threat of being “skewered”.

[@johnnymc5573]

What about those that have a professional job and family? Speaking up can cost you a livelihood

[@Zaphod771]

I'm not sure if that is true at all. I need to think about it, but from what I can tell, people act centrist in public while privately (or online) holding some fairly radical positions.

[@arlieferguson3990]

I think it happened because of Internet culture. People have been able to make whole careers out of just attracting attention. It's become a game of attracting attention regardless of the actual value of what you're doing or saying, because the people who get the most views and clicks and are the ones who will get the most attention and financial rewards. The easiest way to do that is to be extreme and play to the crowd.

[@mattfirman3877]

Andrew Yang was the only person who came close to achieving a popular middle ground. 2024.

[@sunnydlight2375]

but he turned out to be male, and not black american or trans lgbtq identifying (and not part of the elite white)....so he had to go.

[@wojakwoes3970]

You're right in principle. But he didn't say all thr right things and pander to all the intersectional and special interest groups. Yang was head and shoulder thr best guy, but you can win thr Dem nomination unless you pander and water down your platform to make ppl feel good.

[@4fmagnet]

This dude is doing his best John Malkovich impersonation.

[@venicebeachsportsnetwork6677]

Did you do google search on the spelling of his name for a KZbin comment?

[@Pollutical]

I'd argue that both are simply more thoughtful in their choice of words.

[@PlumGustave]

He sounds like Christopher Walken to me...

[@cosmicmuffet1053]

Space force is real. Keep an eye out for cheeky russians spying on things they have full access to--just for the sheer joy of spyink!

[@Rsvohi]

If we cannot synthesize then there is real growth, no progress; no refinement of past learnings, no healthy actualization of potential.

[@bensmith8240]

Exactly. Stop letting immigrants in. They don't synthesize with those who's values built civilization.

[@adamsmith307]

Ben Smith you’re an idiot.

[@roundedges2]

Adam Smith He means we can’t synthesize honor killing with women’s rights-Which is true.

[@tonyb930]

New follower of the Portal. Weinstein is almost always more informed and rational than his guests. Interesting guy.

[@bensmith8240]

Except the James O'keefe interview where his ego got the best of him.

[@Bizarro69]

Oh yeah?

[@TheAlibabatree]

He's is brilliant. Still has his blind spots like anyone, but his wealth of knowledge is unlike anything ive encountered.

[@amadeusdebussy6736]

I really wish people would stop referring to a political "center". My set of beliefs is my position, it grows out of a set of principles I have. It is not based on being between two other positions. Even saying there is a center legitimizes the loons on either extreme as the reference points by which everyone else is judged. I refuse to accept this as a valid analysis.

[@TheAlibabatree]

Good point. I think the problem is that most people dont actually think for themselves, and tend to flock to whichever "gang" is closest to them. There are exceptions of course, but most people ive met who are independent thinkers, tend to fall between to the two parties.

[@relentlessburrito]

The left seems to have moved further left and I suspect that has a lot to do with the polarization. If you doubt this, I would sincerely like to hear you list issues in which the party has moved further right since George W Bush. Thoughts?

[@jacobjorgenson9285]

I'm not sure it's left, it's just emotional with no grounded point of view

[@swingset1969]

@@jacobjorgenson9285 So, more left.

[@tonyb930]

Both sides have moved right, but the center right has moved far right. McCain was the last hold-out. Study the Clinton policies and the move from protecting labor to corporations. This was all hidden under a smoke screen of healthcare, Don't Ask Don't Tell, etc. GW Bush is much more rightwing than his father or Reagan.

[@empoweryou1]

Agreed, from my perspective, the left seems to be racing towards the extreme left far more(and more quickly)than the right has been moving towards their version of extreme, at least currently. One question Jordan Peterson asks is: When is the normal, rational left going to define when their own party or ideology has gone too far? Where is that line? This question should be one both political parties should be trying to define.

[@expendable4h002]

Riddick State economically perhaps but socially no.

[@jaysonray9915]

Each side is dug in, IMO here is why. The issue of abortion was decided by SCOTUS and not in the legislature where each side can reach a compromise and therefore as the constitution says the consent of the governed. Since 4his step was not permitted the argument has been framed by a court and thier consent was substituted for the peoples. The court, well intentioned as it may have been, recognized compassion for a womans right but did not mention compassion for the fetus right.

[@500iq6foot8]

Seems like the question was only described but not answered in this video

[@expendable4h002]

There is no left or right. There is only up and down.

[@joshparrott8841]

The center of what? Social policy? OK - I'll buy. Fiscal policies? No discernible difference at all! Geo-politically? SAME! All I see is centrist policies and identity politics.

[@Igneous01]

The only unique one I saw was subsidized employment. However there is a good way to implement this, and a bad way. The bad way is picking companies that are in your lobby group, telling them to make up x number of jobs, and then paying the employees entire salary. The good way would be to have the program be opt-in by businesses, and either offer tax deductions for each employee that is part of this program, or have the government and employer split the salary, and limit the program to 1-2 years at most, where at the end of the term, the company can either choose to hire the person full time, or let them go. The time limits prevent the costs for the program from getting out of control. It also encourages economic growth by rewarding business' for participating in the program. The employer gets cheap labor, and the employee has a stable job and income, and experience that they can take to future employers. It also incentivizes unemployed people to go to work.

[@GDKRichardson]

Well, if you're going to insult voters by calling them either "dupes" or "troglodytes" for not being centrists, then you're helping to create the deep, broad chasm between opposing points of view that you criticize. Political extremism flourishes where personal self-reflection is absent; mass murder grows where extremism is allowed to propagate its position as centrist.

[@shortassbd]

The abortion debate is the best example of this moral quandary. It always seems to me that there a few points that are ignored consciously or subconsciously though. 1. The left seems insistent on pushing the limit further and further which drives the right to become more and more desperately stubborn. 2. As Eric mentioned, a common sense yet moral and scientific debate on embryo to foetus development. 3 month to full term abortions really shouldn’t be necessary let alone on the table. 3. The responsibility and choice before conception. There are clear and readily available methods before conception to prevent unwanted pregnancies, yet it seems that education and discussion is totally missing from the left’s thinking and the right’s arguments. Huge missed opportunity for a middle ground.

[@Ebergerud]

50 years ago and the social issues were far less important. The colleges had not yet turned hard left. I was at the University of California and, even with Vietnam, there was a broad range of opinion in almost every department. Issues like gay marriage, trans matters and social justice issues didn't really exist. Think about it - what were the big differences between Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter?

[@maplenook]

Obama, Bushes and Clinton likewise

[@diggymels]

I honestly think that Saul Alinsky tactics has hollowed out the center.... once politics becomes about ridicule, it makes it very hard to want to engage the other side

[@fairreviews25]

How many times do you have to discuss something? Honest Question. - Mike in Coronado

[@fairreviews25]

@Jeannie Seibert Thank you for replying. What if it is not economical to reach consensus? I've been watching this train wreck happen for a long time. Why deal with humans that have no humanity left in them? They don't even have good genetics half the time. Why bother playing with people that are not civil and change the rules constantly? I see no reason. There are millions of good people in most countries. That's all we need. The rest are going to destroy themselves with their own philosophies. Only a fool is gonna throw them rope. - Mike in Coronado

[@thomasrad6296]

I have a friend who has trouble not thinking in terms of binary. I think he wants help but doesn't know where to turn. Any advice

[@roundedges2]

Is that a yes or no question?

[@InformationRequired]

I don't think that framing the middle position as "above" the left - right conflict is useful. I see what Eric means, and I agree, but diametric positioning holds the power today. Do we - the Centrists, the "Middlers" - find ourselves between the right and the left? In some ways, because each side emphasizes certain points of view, and focuses on particular aspects of Western liberty. What we are trying to do is to capture a comprehensive picture, and to weigh all things appropriately. This allows us to move forward on individual topics, within the larger landscape, while also protecting and developing our institutions and the mechanisms therein. The right-left conflict does not value that. Their focus is on advancing their political agenda, and regardless of how correct or "noble" their solutions may be, they are limited to this dimension.

[@buddhabillybob]

If you work on the ground in any major institution, you are surrounded by people who are moderates. As you go up the hierarchy, however, views become more rigid and more ideological. I work in education: most of my fellow teachers are center-left with nuanced views on poverty, education, race, etc. As you go up the hierarchy, however, views become more rigid and more ideological. Eventually, those views filter who seeks to become an administrator.

[@fantomet6599]

erics opening question is beautifully articulated

Marxists happened

[@tux1968]

The internet happened and a whole generation grew up talking to each other with no adults around to hit them with a clue stick once in a while. If we survive the next 30 years, everything will be just fine. Once the current crop of idiots grows up and learns the tough lessons, they will be on the internet to raise the next group.

[@chrisgadsby5700]

30 years is a long to survive this and a lot of damage can be done in that time. Agree that social media and smart phones have played their part. Silicon valley deliberately created disruptive technology and business models avoiding taxation to concentrate wealth in a few individuals. Plus the education system has been converted into an activist production line, so I think the battle is won/lost in the next few years

[@dariofromthefuture3075]

A) - the silent majority isn’t loud but it’s present and just needs a small catalyst to unite behind #unity2020 B) when the business model for news is to get clicks- it incentivizes inflammatory articles. It does not incentivize thoughtful, research driven pieces. Hence- the need for podcast such as this.

[@NoMoreFunland]

Ha! It’s like when you bring your LEGO box but they will only play with their set of two tone puzzle pieces. Hard to build dimension in a conversation in flatland. They can only ever perceive a cross section of your concepts without the context of the other parts. Brilliant.

[@robertrussell2202]

Theres too much of an information overload these days so people feel they need to pick a side and stick to it no matter what new information is presented

[@ericairwaterfire]

Eric's "higher dimensional middle" idea after 13:34 is excellent.

[@roundedges2]

The problem with reflexive “middle-pathers” is, the center of “looney tunes” and “fckn crazy” is not necessarily a viable place.

[@Jackaroo.]

The same thing that happened to the middle class. They either became upper middle class and upper class or they became poor.

[@Joebethere7]

no new ideas here, just a nostalgic look at the past and some technical points thrown in.

[@roundedges2]

New is not always better, and nostalgic is not always anachronistic. I’ve found, when you make a wrong turn, RETRACING YOUR STEPS, is the best way to see where you fell off your bike and can get back on track

[@Joebethere7]

@@roundedges2 what also helps is looking objectively at our problems and not trying to pit both sides, which had little decision making, against each other

[@ethanellis465]

Why has it taken me 25 years to find sensible people spreading what (to me at least) seems to be common sense...

[@elizabethshaw7717]

Oh man I was just saying that justice inside the womb does not behave or look like justice outside the womb. Frameshift.

[@richardblinn4811]

An interesting observation.If you are interested in searching for some kind of out of context middle in the pro life / pro choice conversation let me know. I remember something of my life in the womb. Cheers

[@evanbrown2594]

This is the wrong way to think of it. Think about political movements as carts being drawn by a horse, people jump in and jump off and the cart goes down a lose path, however the carts accumulate damage, grow heavy with people and baggage, and has small groups of people who are certain the car is going to take them to the place they need to go and will stick on it no matter what the path it takes them on. So now in 2020 our carts resemble the horse drawn carts in Raskolnikovs dream, what can be thought of as the horse drawing the cart with the political right has gotten bogged down on a muddy road, with people standing around wondering what to do next, no real cooperation but no feuding. They are unsure about their next course of action, some want to wait for the mare to rest, others want to pull the cart stripped of its belongings while others are happy to walk alone with it... The horse drawing the political left has collapsed is being beaten, and screamed at, the cart has been overloaded, with people thinking it is taking them to different destinations, loaded to the gills, with everyone thinking they will be the last ones to reach the destination and with it all the goods and wealth in the cart. The horse like the tired work animal the dream is still alive as the passengers start to carve it up to eat it. They will move forward somehow even if they need to get certain unworthy people on the cart to pull it.

[@roundedges2]

Did anyone bring mustard? We need mustard.

[@theodoremccarthy4438]

"Anyone I don't understand is a troglodyte or a dupe." Gee, I can't understand why this guy isn't more popular. The center has failed for exactly the reason seen here. This sneering intellectual elitism is irritating to both sides. You can't negotiate a peace by alienating both sides in a conflict.

[@TheAlibabatree]

"Centrism" and "elitism" are not the same thing.

[@therealcomicopera]

Yes, but only the dupes have become dupier every year. I suspect that many troglodytes have been quiet for years. This kind of pushback is healthy.

[@theodoremccarthy4438]

@@TheAlibabatree technically no, but there is very broad overlap in US politics.

[@theodoremccarthy4438]

@@therealcomicopera this is not "pushback" and it is not "healthy". Our political discourse has unraveled precisely because the "center" has spent much of the past several decades refusing to listen to anyone outside of the "center". What we're seeing, in both the rise of trump and the rise of BLM is pushback against a pathological centrist elite who've ignored pressing socio-economic issues for far too long. Weinstein is just another case of that same elitist, centrist pathology

[@josephanderson4729]

The corporate state has complete control of government. There is no left, right center, it's a show. It seems like there's no moving forward in this conversation until you can just say that. Left, right and center does not rule the country: pharmaceutical, technology and energy companies rule the country and they've almost toppled the need to even posture as if there's a government for the people, by the people. Talking about left, right and center is off topic.

[@justthink9815]

that glass is giving me anxiety

[@NewWorldDAO]

Nothing would get done if Center candidates

[@dumpsterplayer2700]

Ron paul stood alone many a time too

[@pamelafoley9815]

Ted Cruz stood up alone remember

[@ilovepickles7427]

What abut something like creationism? Is there supposed to be some kind of middle position?

[@swingset1969]

Atheist who believes in science responding: Depends...are you talking social policy? Education? Public realm or private? Where does your black or white end? Are you prepared to shut down a Muslim school that teaches THEIR creationism, when they steadfastly refuse the scientific origin hypothesis? I think people who get on this topic think some fundy Christian folks in Kentucky are the bad guys. Let's open that up a bit, if we're having the discussion about religion vs. science.

[@AquarianSoulTimeTraveler]

Watch my latest Starlink video. It will be a SAR-LIDAR constellation that will record and map the entire surface of the planet all the time watching what everyone is doing! This is a bigger top-secret information leaked then Edward Snowdens watch my video!

[@khurmiful]

What happened to the center? Maybe shrinking middle class has something to do with it.

[@josemolina1916]

Talk with Cornell wesy

[@AquarianSoulTimeTraveler]

#WriteInAndrewYang

[@landline516]

I know of NO woman who has frivolously terminated a pregnancy, let alone in the 3rd trimester. Men need to stop having anything to do with laws concerning women's bodies. Could you imagine a body of women deciding laws about men's bodies?

[@jacobjorgenson9285]

I can't believe we are even having his conversation in 2020

[@wesleyebanks4214]

@@adamgreen911 I can't believe you are real. You can't really be this stupid. Have you ever read a history book? The societies that have been most destructive on earth have been the atheist ones. No society murders more humans than societies that try to eliminate religion. Pick up a book on the USSR or China. I hope you aren't so cowardly as to erase or edit this post. This is hilarious. I will be copying it and sending it to everyone I know. You are by far one of the most ignorant people I have ever come across on the internet. I wish I could send you a trophy! You really need to start reading. Retards like you are going to usher in the next Holocaust, except it will be happening in America. Also, the idea that an advance degree is going to save people is hilarious. Just because you spend more time in a government run propaganda system built to enslave people in a lifetime of debt doesn't mean that you are actually wiser. For instance you lack a basic knowledge of 20th century history or the history of atheism, yet you believe you are educated. These degrees certainly will not help in the future as morons like yourself are replaced by automation. Please begin to read.... something, anything. Once again, thank you for the entertainment as I wait for the new season of South Park in the fall. Next time, I would recommend that you think twice before you post. You are going to be super famous for being retarded.

[@TheAlibabatree]

@@wesleyebanks4214 Its much more complicated than that. Millions (perhaps billions) of people have been killed in the name of religion. Very few have been killed in the name of "atheism". But, you do make a good point about secular societies. Societies that toss away religion tend to become more authoritarian. But, i dont think its because of the lack of religion. I think its the lack of culture and tradition. Culture and tradition tend to give people values. Religion just happens to be a part of that most of the time.

[@wesleyebanks4214]

@@TheAlibabatree It really isn't much more complicated than that. Even you admit that secular societies are worthless. While you are correct that it is not done in the name of atheism, it is done because of atheism. If you do not worship God, then something else takes His place. In the case of secular societies, an individual will take the place of God and you will be forced to worship which ever cult of personality is put in the place of God. Culture does not give people values. Culture is a result of religion. A culture develops around the values that a society holds in highest regard. Which, up until the 20th century has always come from religion. The fact is that secular societies will always be murderous and genocidal. They have to become that way in order to instill whatever ridiculous sets of beliefs they have into their victims. The fact is China will always murder more people than any religious society on earth because it has to in order to force people into the unnatural (and unscientific) belief that something comes from nothing. This is the same as 2+2=5 in 1984. This is why the 21st century will have a much higher body count than the 20th century. When you remove God from the equation then people are just animals, and there is no reason not to kill other humans. In fact a belief in evolution necessitates a Hitlerian belief system because everything comes down to survival of the fittest. If you really believe in evolution then murder is ok because morality is a made up system that comes from religion. That is why there is no secular moral system, and why secular humanists are immoral. They have no system to govern their behavior. This is why they celebrate the fact that more black babies are murdered in the womb in NYC than are actually born each year (or at least in 2018). Unfortunately because people have been brainwashed, this century will be the century of murder and human destruction. Soon there will be more people who do not believe in any morality than the people who do. More people will believe that murder and human sacrifice are good than people who want to avoid war and murder. The sad part is this was all clearly predictable and we were warned about it over the last 1900+ years. But, "the greatest trick the devil ever pulled... was convincing the world that he doesn't exist." So kick back, crack open your favorite beverage, and enjoy watching it burn... This is just the beginning of the nightmare that the ignorant have created.

[@samuelcox30]

Wesley Ebanks yeh right no one died due to religion ever....the dark ages, the Middle Ages they were paradises, real garden of Eden type set up...

[@TheNaturalLawInstitute]

What has happened is that the Jewish dialog (sophistry, pilpul) and social construction (avoiding the search for truth in favor of a search for sensibilities) prevailed because in the age of television, it requires less from the audience, as well as less from speakers. Western man spoke in testimony - in court, in church, in commons. An announcer in the 50's was testifying not using dialectic (excuse-making). And these two are doing the same thing. They are framing the discourse as Jewish social construction rather than European truthful speech (testimony). That is what happened. It's not even complicated. If you want to know what's happened to sense-making that's it. If you want to know what the public can't think. Why the present two generations can't seem to think. The destruction of European sense-making by the pseudosciences of Freud and Boas, Marxism, socialism, and so-called scientific socialism, the sophistries of neo-marxism (cultural marxism), postmodernism, Jewish feminism, and political correctness. It's just repeating the Jewish undermining of Rome by false promise of freedom from painful truths, and repetition of how they undermine each host country until kicked out for legitimate reasons. The Jewish spirit isn't revolutionary - its purpose is undermining truth in favor of the social construction of comforting falsehoods. It's just taken until the 20th century to understand it. And the love their art of art of deceit by dialectic, to create socal construction of false promises by appealing to comforting emotions instead of causing adaptation in man to the physical, natural, and evolutionary laws. This is why they are incompatible with western civilization. They don't seek truth regardless of cost. They just modernized scriptural interpretation for modernity. They replace Judaism, Christianity, and islam with marxism, socialism, and postmodernism. it's no different. Just pseudoscientific and sophistry vs supernatural and sophistry. They seek to undermine European truth regardless of cost. And they're proud of it. They can't grasp that they're just lying - with every breath.

[@ameeshupadhyay]

Dude uses a lot of words to convey little

[@clevelandhiphoplive5527]

Marxism. That's what happened. Thanks for flirting with marxism Abraham Lincoln! No good deed goes unpunished.

[@kobe42085]

So, I'm curious, how do you compromise with a segregationist or a racist? Their point of view is illogical. You can't reason with unreasonable people. The fact that people gave the benefit of the doubt, as being reasonable people, to Segregationist Senators in the South, lead to issues we have today. They weren't reasonable, they were bigots.

[@wesleyebanks4214]

They were democrats. The same people who keep killing black Americans today. Unfortunately these hateful people gained total control of the education system and brainwashed millions of idiots. People believe the South fought for slavery in the Civil War. But it wasn't the South, it was democrats. They owned 100% of the slaves and when they lost, they started the KKK and Jim Crow. Retarded people still vote for them despite the fact that they didn't even bother to change the name of their political party after all of their racism. So now they have the power to keep black Americans in ghettos in every major city they control.

[@TheAlibabatree]

Its this exact type of demonization that is the problem. There is no such thing as a lost cause. It is not the person's fault for learning what they have learned. It is our (educators) fault for not being effective enough.

[@kobe42085]

The 'center' is the home to intellectual children.

[@TheAlibabatree]

I would consider Trump to be a child. In fact, i think most of our leaders are children, which is part of the reason we are in the mess we are in. Obviously you fall either on the right or the left. Do you consider both to be more "adult", or just one side?

[@coltontaylor435]

I'm curious about how someone could come to think that. Care to explain?

[@ernstwiltmann6]

Gubbledigoop

[@CronyxRavage]

Elaborate?

[@ernstwiltmann6]

@@CronyxRavage What is the political center ? Informed critical think citizens, or people that go with the flow. Facts do not have a center, facts are biased. The truth is what it is, and the truth does not care if it's the center, left, or right.

[@abcd123906]

4:52

[@Timur21]

Damn, first time I see my name represented somehwere.. that hit different lol

[@josephcro2138]

Balkan people problems

[@MsKikidarling]

He is Turkish. Timur is a widely used name in Turkey.

[@josephcro2138]

@@MsKikidarling doubt ridjanovic is a Turkish last name

[@MsKikidarling]

@@josephcro2138 ??? Can you read?

[@chefandy72]

Stop saying nuances.... it's triggering me,,, nuances, nuances, nuances,, what are the nuances,,, first you say nuances, then you make up some stuff.... where are you going, where are we going, why are you so preoccupied by trying to sound smart when it's clear the present exists not because general hystaria but because all Previously defined moral hazards have accumulated to form one giant pile of shit that can't be hidden by the same mechanisms of diversion anymore. Bolshivism is not the answer. Lol. Yes i'm crazy.