Deep cycle batteries, lithium vs lead acid! Lithium trolling motor batteries by Dr.Prepare

[@gcampbell83]

I like how Andrew goes fishing and calls it "testing" Good Job! The new batteries appear to be a win win. Had to give this a thumbs up Like.

[@TKCL]

I wish it was fishing weather

[@hrlee2381]

You need to add towels to your fishing supplies so when Mr. Ruger takes the plunge, you can dry him off. He is a handsome dog. Great information on batteries.

[@TKCL]

I usually carry a towel on the boat, I always have one in the truck.

[@tundrabasser]

Haha! The dog is awesome! Cold water challenge...im in!

[@TKCL]

Lol he loves water!

[@brucesumner6993]

Been running Lithium Ion batteries for 6 years. Best feature is they maintain the same power till they are discharged...no drop like traditional batteries. I'm about to install them in my hunting buggy. Good luck!

[@TKCL]

I love that feature, definitely keeps the trolling motor pulling strong.

[@misterbulger]

Then how do you know when to head back to the dock?

[@TKCL]

Add a led battery voltage indicator for readout or buy a charger with battery monitoring.

[@JD-ft2lr]

​@@TKCLMaybe do a video review of a on board lithium battery monitor. Their discharge curve prevents accuracy from a simple volt read out. And lifespan of a lithium is greatest if they're only discharged somewhere around 80% I think. But at 80% they will still show voltage close to full.

[@ryanzynda5114]

Another awesome educational video.

[@jeremiahs45]

Lithium seems to be the way to go. Thank you for the information Andrew

[@TKCL]

Thank you for watching

[@5thGenNativeTexan]

LiFePos have been a game changer in our Nitro 911. Recently went to a Ghost trolling motor, and at the same time it was time to pull the 3 blue Optimas out and replace them with LiFePos. That alone was a 75 pound weight savings. Then came the next awesome thing: At face value the LiFePos we're using (Dakota) have about twice the capacity. Now, while that doesn't necessarily translate into twice as long run-times, it does significantly increase the amount of trolling motor life. Also love the integrated bluetooth battery management system info transmitted from each individual battery. On top of that, these newer trolling motors like the Ghost are far superior in how they use power, and they alone enable about half-again more run-time that a traditional motor. In fact, we found it to have so much more thrust that we opt most of the time to run it in 24V mode versus 36V mode. Overall, the LiFePos and the Ghost have literally doubled the amount of run-time at less than half the weight.

[@TKCL]

I'll never go back to heavy traditional batteries

[@CircleCitySlicker]

My man Andrew, you knew this vlog would be right up my alley!!!!

[@TKCL]

I did 😉

[@JohnnyRose-xd6rs]

I bought two of these one for front one for rear for jon boat used about five times now no problems

[@TKCL]

Mine are, still working great.

[@kingwood4357]

You have a great fishing buddy there😀👍

[@TKCL]

Sure do!

[@stevensaxon8888]

Andrew hope this is the beginning of your lithium battery & solar panels journey. Hope you had a merry Christmas and happy new years

[@TKCL]

I might have a little something up my sleeve 😉

[@theElderberryFarmer]

Those LiFePO4 batteries definitely have advantages over lead/acid batteries! The reduced weight and extended lifespan certainly makes LiFePO4 batteries attractive. You likely won't have this issue in Florida - but I believe those batteries can be damaged if they are recharged while the temperature is below freezing. This can be a concern in cold climates when folks use them as part of a solar power system. It becomes important to ensure that the powerhouse is well insulated and has some sort of heat source to prevent temps from dropping below freezing. With all new technologies, there are adjustments we have to make - like ensuring that we use the correct kind of charger (as you pointed out very clearly). Take care and God Bless.

[@TKCL]

That's the beauty of these having the battery management system, it will not allow charging if below or above the temperature range. No damage should occur.

[@theElderberryFarmer]

@@TKCL Ah - I knew the BMS would prevent over/under current and do cell balancing, but I didn't realize that it had temperature sensors as well. Thanks for the education!

[@AdHocAtom]

@@theElderberryFarmer Yeah, it's pretty amazing but they will protect from charging/discharging in heat/cold but you have to read the specs to make sure the battery has that, most, even at under $200 do have that feature.

[@pmichael3442]

Andrew, check with your insurance company to make sure that you and your property are in fact covered. I have heard from a few boat owners who switched to LiPo4 batteries only to find that the insurance would not cover them in the event of fire because of said batteries.

[@TKCL]

Crazy! Thanks

[@pmichael3442]

@@TKCL On a side note, did you isolate the 2 batteries from 24volts before charging? I believe that, that NOCO is rated to charge 2, isolated 12 volt batteries as opposed to a 2 bank 24 volt system.

[@TKCL]

No I did not, I've never owned a charger that requires that.

[@THEFERMANATOR]

​@@pmichael3442the noco connects to each battery individually and charges as 2 12 volt batteries instead of as a 24 volt. By design of the connection method they are isolated.

[@mikerichard-FOPA3]

Andrew another great review, Ruger the water boy!!

[@TKCL]

He can't stand it! 😂

[@JeffRigney]

Great video bud. Cool dog too!!

[@TKCL]

Thank you for watching

[@ericballard74]

Love that dog!

[@TKCL]

He's a trip!

[@Chris351971]

Good video thanks for posting. our chocolate is the same we have to keep her thither because she will just swim off.

[@samuelschult985]

Can't believe no one noticed, Ruger found the fish as soon as he jumped in the water you caught your first fish 👍

[@TKCL]

That's true, it was about 20ft away I caught one.

[@heynsenene]

Love that dog bro

[@TKCL]

Me too, he's my buddy!

[@kenhoyle4344]

Great job

[@xzibit8614]

So, a “12volt” LiFePo4 battery consists of 4x 3.2 volt “nominal” cells in series. Which adds up to 12.8. Absolute FULL on a LiFePo4 is 3.5 volts per cell. But as soon as you take it off the charger it drops to 3.4 volts. 3.5 times 4 is 14. But 3.4 times is 13.6. After a day or so it’ll “settle” to 3.35 volts per cell. That’s 13.4 volts. Does ya no good to go above 14v. You squeeze maybe 1% of capacity extra at most at the expense of cell life / longevity. Stresses them out. Lead acid you can go pretty high. If you surpass 3.65 volts per cell on lithium iron phosphate YOU WILL DAMAGE IT. 3.65 times 4 is 14.6 volts. That’s danger zone. Don’t ever surpass 14 to get that 3,000 cycle count. I build huge LifePo4 house backup batteries. The cells we install are rated for 6500 cycles charged to 3.4 volts. We do banks of 16 cells for 48volt off grid systems. At full charge of 3.4 volts a cell they hit 54.6volts at full charge for a “48 volt rated” battery. Voltages you’re seeing is typical. Also LiFePo4 has a shelf. It doesn’t drop gradually like a lead acid. It’ll hold at 3.3 - 3.2volts per cell all the way down to 10% state of charge or so, then tank. This is why you’re getting better performance as the voltage doesn’t sag like a lead acid does. Biggest thing is lead acid voltages SAG under load. Lithium iron phosphate barely sags under load. It’ll hold it all the way til the end. Then tank like a rock. Which is better because a LiFePo4 battery at 30% charge will perform identical to one at 80% charge. On a lead acid you definitely see a difference at 30% vs 80%. The bottom “danger” zone for a LiFePo4 is 2.5 volts per cell, which is 10volts for a 4 cell setup. We tell our clients never go below 2.75, which is 11volts no load in your case. Difference between 2.75 and 2.5 again, is literally 1% in capacity.

[@TKCL]

Great information, thanks.

[@gregorythomas333]

My lead acid deep cycle batteries are $200 each & 100 pounds each. And I can't discharge them lower than about 50% without doing damage to them. I will be getting LiFePO4 batteries replacements just as soon as I can. The initial investment is high...but as you point out they are much more economical in the long term. BTW: You should only charge to 80% of the batteries maximum capacity...and don't discharge lower than 20% if you can help it. This will make your batteries last longer. Keep in mind that Lithium batteries do not like cold...so I would suggest keeping your deep cycle batteries on a maintainer so you can use them in really cold weather if needed.

[@TKCL]

They discharge perfectly fine in colder weather (according to specs), it's the recharging that's an issue with below freezing or extremely high temps. That's the bonus of these having the battery management system, it automatically cuts the charging if either temperature extreme is met.

[@larsvegas1505]

I can ajust the voltage on my bms (with a app/bluetooth).. so i just set them to where i cant discharge below 15 procent and above 95 percent, when i charge the battery its always before fishing so it doesnt matter as much to charge above 80% a little... and if i get out of power i can just grab my phone, put the voltage a bit lower and im set on reserve power.. (also nice to have). If u have a bms with bluetooth or usb connection then u can just put in the settings u want and forget it. U could also just build a 150 amp 24v lithium for about 600 bucks if u order the parts on ali... Its just putting the cells together and adding the bms balance leads... nothing u cant do with a 5 minute tutorial.

[@TKCL]

That's a nice feature

[@lightwiz267]

One note I found out when searching of boat batteries. Every outboard manufacturer does not recommend lithium as cracking batteries. The charging systems on outboards are designed for lead acid and may fail or damage lithium batteries if connected. Both Yamaha and Mercury are coming out with motors that will take lithiums but only on the big motors. There is something in the brain of a lab that says "I must be in that water" 😂

[@TKCL]

That's exactly right, but these are also deep cycle batteries and not designed for cranking.

[@jameelsmith3566]

Add a Trollbridge 24 and problem solved converts the altenator to voltage for a lithium type charge

[@notasheep12]

Can these batteries be used as a cranking battery on a 30hp 4 stroke?

[@MrBp8888]

Wow price is about the same on lawn mower batteries lead vs lithium. Probably make the switch when it’s time.

[@TKCL]

I love the weight savings

[@jasonbroom7147]

100AH AGM - 50AH (usable) X 800 life-cycles before replacement = 40,000AH of discharge capacity. 100AH LiFePO4 - 90AH (usable) X 3,000 life-cycles before 80% of original capacity remaining = 270,000AH of discharge capacity. The lithium iron-phosphate battery gives you about 7 times as much total output over its rated life-cycle. When the AGM reaches the end of its life-cycle, it's basically useless; you recycle it. With LiFePO4 batteries, they just hold less energy...they are still perfecly usable, so they can keep going well after that 10 year period. Throw in the fact that AGM or other lead-acid batteries have voltages that drop off quickly during discharge, while LiFePO4 maintains a flat, steady discharge curve for 90% of its capacity, and you're getting more "battery" while you're using it. The only people still using lead-acid batteries, of any kind, for their trolling motor or electronics, are people who can't do basic math.

[@genghischuan4886]

12:12 LMFAO just like my Cookies!

[@TKCL]

Crazy dog 🤣

[@desert-timber-outdoors6577]

I fish all year round. I live where it gets well below freezing. My boat is stored in an open bay style shop with no heat. I have not switched over because I am worried about leaving my batteries on the tender….. with my lead acid it’s simply park the boat, I plug it in and leave it. I am worried if I do that with lithium it will destroy 1400 dollars in batteries….. and I don’t want to have to remove my batteries every night I get home and place them in a heated shop to charge.

[@TKCL]

These newer styles have the management system that cuts off charging below freezing and then allow charging again above freezing. Make for sure you get ones with that type of automatic protection.

[@toddgodwin8591]

Andrew would you recommend that exact set up? I’ve got a 1860 gator tail and trying to save weight for skinny water and just ease of use to take it out for duck season

[@TKCL]

I still absolutely recommend it. I take my boat out almost every weekend swimming and river hopping. I am still very impressed with how much agility and maneuverability I gained by reducing that weight up front. I see no reason to ever go back to heavy lead acid batteries.

[@toddgodwin8591]

@@TKCL Thanks brother. I appreciate it. Your videos are awesome. Keep it up. Miss seeing y’all run that gator tail though. Come on down to Citrus County anytime.

[@jasonshaw4819]

how are the batteries holding up after a year ?

[@TKCL]

Been 14 months and zero issues, I love the power these provide to my trolling motors. I'm probably going to get a third one for a small boat.

[@stevensaxon8888]

Andrew, I knew ruger could not help him self with jumping into the water.

[@TKCL]

He's crazy

[@WoodDuxWill]

Great video! Excited to see how they do as time goes on and you keep using them. I have the same battery charger on my duck boat and love it but still have the lead acid batteries 😢.

[@TKCL]

I'm loving the, weight savings. My boat really does handle better.

[@WoodDuxWill]

@@TKCL no doubt! I will be switching eventually and want to save the weight too. All my batteries are in the back of my Excel so I should be able to run a little shallower if there’s less weight right on the transom.

[@TKCL]

Oh wow, all in the rear.

[@genghischuan4886]

Hey Bro you can regenerate those lead acid DONT get rid of them! you need a good 200 amp timer battery charger. or a welder. you run them ten minutes at a time 5 cycles but let them cool between cycles. I drain then first and replace the acid first. when you do this they desulfinate and get back to almost new cap. I will say the lithium irons are nice... just wait until the lithium titanates come out or hopefully the sodium batteries

[@TKCL]

Interesting, I've heard of that before.

[@shmayazuggot8558]

Forgot to mention the other advantage is Acid batteries can only discharge to 50% so you need twice the amount of Acid to get the same energy.

[@TKCL]

Exactly right

[@Justin-C]

He didn't forget, he talks about it at 17:00 in the video...

[@robertmalis4493]

Hey Andrew, I wonder Bing the battery is a smart battery and the smart charger I wonder if the two aren’t talking right which is not allowing it to fully charge i’ll be curious to know if you could do a few more updates on it because I just replaced my lead acid batteries so I’ll be interested to see and I have the Nocho smart battery charger. I don’t know if this one’s specific to lithium-ion batteries though.

[@TKCL]

The batteries management system does not reduce charging voltage, it stops it completely if a discharge, recharge or temperature problem occurs. The charger is definitely charging, but I was expecting to see it charge in the 14v plus range. This is all new to me though, I might have read that wrong.

[@robertmalis4493]

@@TKCL thank you for the reply buddy

[@TKCL]

Apparently 13.6 volts is about the best you can expect for a fully charged and resting lithium battery at 100 percent.

[@ProspectingMonkey]

Link for battery charger please

[@TKCL]

Here you go amzn.to/3hVWs3M

[@ProspectingMonkey]

@@TKCL thx

[@RobertKohut]

They 'charge' you more but you get to charge more.... :-)

[@DUCKSAREEVILLLLLLLL]

Where's the lithium battery made?

[@TKCL]

I'm sure China like all the others.

[@gmsgabaradama2009]

Voltage won’t tell you much about lithium batteries it’s all about the state of charge

[@TKCL]

Voltage is a good quick measurement and something most of us can check easily. It is also very important for things like a trolling motor keeping a higher voltage input. The depth of discharge also makes these a winner compared to lead acid.

[@neokane]

Lithiums will hold voltage for a longer period of time. Check the discharge voltage chart. However, once they start discharging, the will die quickly.

[@TKCL]

Yes and they can be discharged deeper than lead acid.

[@St0rmrider73]

“In theory” doesn’t matter. Most people can afford the cheaper battery every few years versus the way more expensive (regardless of their specs) batteries at the moment. Not to mention that lithium is not in a great abundance and will only go up as time goes on.

[@TKCL]

Lithium is actually very abundant, access is the more difficult part. Usually better techniques for mining and technology increases cause the price to drop. Lithium batteries have been dramatically dropping in price over the years.

[@m9ovich785]

KA-PLUSH HAHAHAHAAH!!! I was Just waiting for that to happen. Other than Freezing temps, is the Current limitations on those. The BMS will shut down at a certain point at the Design rating of the BMS. A deep cycle don't Care for the most part. If You need 300 amps it'll provide it. There are MFG's that make these Batteries in 24,36 and 48 Volt configurations. Thanks Andrew ? Ruger, He's Stealing all Your thunder Andrew..

[@TKCL]

They make a 24v as well, but it's too long for my current boat. The batteries discharge down to some very cold temperatures. It's the recharge that does not allow below freezing recharging. Not a issue for me, I'm not fishing anywhere near freezing temps.

[@MatthewDenning-m3r]

I'm afraid the gauge of the wire he's using is too thin. I can only imagine how hot the wires get.

[@TKCL]

I'm using exactly what the manufacturer provided, I'd hope they would have a good idea what's appropriate. By the way have you seen the size of the wire going to the trolling motor? How come it's smaller than the battery cables if those are too small?

[@joshohoro]

the only problem i have with my lithiums is that i can operate them below freezing temps. granite i live in alabama and it doesn’t get that cold here often but every now and again it will bite ya in the butt

[@TKCL]

I keep hearing that but most will absolutely discharge during freezing temps. It's the recharge cycle that has stricter temperature limitations. That's why these have the battery management system to cut that off automatically. Won't be a problem for me as I'm not fishing anywhere near freezing temps 🤣

[@nwflboy007powell8]

My golf cart lead acid batteries last 2-3 years for $1000. LiPo are almost $1800 dollar's. I'm going back with agm for less than $300 for 5 years. With lithium - it's not green, but a very limited resource and are only going up in price and they have no way to recycle them. Soon there are other more energy dense options about to come to market. But hey have a good trip experimenting - hope you catch some fish👍

[@5150cash]

1st

[@TKCL]

You got it!

[@5150cash]

@@TKCL 🤷🏽‍♂️ it's about time..... Good thing I just got done cutting up all that wood from the trees falling over 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@TKCL]

Hope you got the damage repaired.

[@5150cash]

@@TKCL nope. Has to wait for summer.... Or at least for a few weeks until this rain goes away

[@TheSilverSurfisher]

At (4:10) Oh sir….but yes, yes I am…I can do it….because I aint got me some for a long time so I’m cockstrong!…😂😁💪🏾👍🏾 Great Video….Great much needed info!✊🏾🫡

[@HC06-19]

Isn’t there a high disposal fee for lithium batteries?

[@TKCL]

No idea, I don't plan on finding out for at least 10 years. By then these should be the standard and I would hope disposal is normalized.

[@jefffrancis6824]

👍👍

[@radmilamiljanic5977]

Any pikes hiding in that grass? You did ask for a dog that loves water and you got it! And don't expect to stay dry, LOL

[@TKCL]

No pike this far south, mainly bream, bass and catfish.

[@The13inc]

Must be hiding from the cold and finally editing emergency footage.

[@TKCL]

I'm actually a few days ahead for once. This was the end of last week the day the cold front hit.

[@williamcarr1678]

What about if your running in the cold? All the electric car batteries left so many people stranded!!!😮

[@TKCL]

These run down to - 4 degrees, I don't think anyone is fishing in those temperatures. It's charging that you have to be careful about, most non heated lithium doesn't like charging below 32 degrees.

[@james10739]

10.5v is dead

[@TKCL]

Yes that's true, I should have stated 11.5 or higher is the range to stay in. That or below is usually permanent damage.

[@genghischuan4886]

2nd I guess Im shit lmfao

[@RobertKohut]

Somthin' 'fishy' bout this video... :-)

[@TKCL]

🤦🤣

[@dogwater9886]

TWICE THE MONEY WHERE THERE LIKE 6 OR 8 TIMES MORE

[@TKCL]

You have some bad information. Since making this video they've dropped even more and are only about 60 percent more than the lead acid batteries I replaced. I'll never go back to that type of battery again.

[@cowbdave99]

My dog does the same thing just can't resist and we can make the car the house the side by side wet.

[@TKCL]

Mine is obsessed with water, but that's what I wanted.