The Rise of Sinn Fein: The History of Ireland's Nationalist Parties - TLDR News

[@cianmcguire5647]

“Perceived” discrimination is a weird way to describe discrimination codified into law

[@Julianna.Domina]

@@crw45able Both wrong, but only one was codified into law, and one was definitely significantly more severe and pervasive.

[@TheLastAngryMan01]

@@crw45able Not to the same extent. Ne Temere was discriminatory, granted. But the Irish constitution guaranteed religious freedom to Protestant denominations, the first President of Ireland was Douglas Hyde, a Protestant. Protestants have been consistently represented in the Irish houses of parliament, Susan Denham was Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Ireland. The likes of Trevor Sargent, Jan O'Sullivan, Heather Humphreys, Ivan Yates, Ernest Blythe etc. served as Irish government ministers. James Hamilton was the Director for Public Prosecutions. The reverse was not true in NI until recently, despite Catholic schools generally outperforming their Protestant counterparts in the league tables.

[@tylowstar9765]

Perceived doesn't mean it's not there, it's just a diplomatic way of putting it.

[@Niall001]

@@tylowstar9765 Ah yes. The great "perceived" discrimination in apartheid South Africa and Jim Crow America.

[@TheLastAngryMan01]

@@tylowstar9765 But this is supposed to be a news and analysis channel, not a diplomacy channel.

[@gregbrogan9061]

It's amazing how the word "perceived" stood out like a very bad note struck in a piano recital. Actually made me wince!

[@kevinboushel154]

Just to clarify, the Dáil voted in 1948 to declare a Republic of Ireland and is no longer a dominion of the UK.

[@brogant6793]

This was I think a huge part missing from the video! It went from “dominion of the empire” to the troubles with the south as a republic wayy too quick

[@Jay_Johnson]

@Rusty Shackleford yeah I mean it is TLDR for a reason

[@MJ-cv5ye]

@Rusty Shackleford to be honest. It was only a legal limbo for British layers. The Irish and rest of the world didn't care, what Britian fancied itself about the situation. WW2 was clear enough in showing that with Germany being at war with UK but not regarding Ireland as an appendage or dominion of the UK. For better or worse, it acted and was viewed seperately. It was also recognised at its own country by the US in 1924, Vatican in 1923, the majority had recognised Ireland or at least its full defacto autonomy of action and foreign relations by the 30s.

[@jimmyryan5880]

Also Dominion countried had less freedom back then, its not like modern Canada or Australia.

[@andersbodin1551]

In the hearts of the British Irland will always be there dominion

[@funnelhacking]

"perceived as prejudice" 🤔 Nope. It was very much a real thing that happened, it's no secret

[@kevinxu3892]

Was and still does happen, I remeber reading about Cantrell Close a few years ago, it even made PBS news over in the States

[@stevendineen2211]

You keep saying "Perceived discrimination" the discrimination that occured is well documented

[@bengoodwin738]

(¡Well, maybe they were right and they were being discriminated against; but what can be said with certainty is that they believed they were being discriminated against. Whether they were or not is a historical debate and not the point of the video. I don't think that degrades the importance of that historical debate, but now's not the time. And, for the record, I'd agree with the "yes they were being discriminated against" side.¡)

[@seanegan8150]

@@bengoodwin738 the economic and social discrimination of the British state against Catholics is not up for debate. Historical revisionism cannot take its hold on our island and our people's history of oppression.

[@RobinKoenig1917]

@@bengoodwin738 there are no sides. On the one hand is the established fact that northern Catholic, nationalist communities were discriminated against in housing, employment, policing etc by the protestant, unionist elite, and on the other are a bunch or revisionist, unionist knuckledraggers who also think the earth is 6000 years old. Would you debate if black people were discriminated against in the jim crow south? Becouse what happened in northern Ireland is just as well documented.

[@tobiasL1991]

Exactly, I hate those kinds of lines, especially when you know this is a British youtube channel.

[@bengoodwin738]

@@RobinKoenig1917 I think you were trying to use reductio ad absurdum, but yes. Historians can and do often debate to what extent black people were discriminated against in the south. History is all about debate. Everything is up for debate. Some stances are obvs dumb - like "holocaust not a thing" - but most stances have some merit to them, and the debate will happen.

[@user-tv1lh7bh4f]

“Perceived discrimination” ? You’re having a laugh. It was discrimination, plain and simple.

[@charliemullins8]

It was all in our heads, so it seems.

[@RobinKoenig1917]

It's the equivalent of saying the "perceived descrimination" of black people in the jim crow south. There was nothing perceived about it. It was a stone cold fact.

[@MRSYSTEM96]

was thinking the same

[@daviddestefanis2989]

@@RobinKoenig1917 Its almost worse, just because they descriminated against the Irish in Ireland. That would be like descriminating against Africans in Africa. And again, the British had a role in that, as well...

[@CENTRIX4]

Red Óg Murphy Fizzer Side Effects Did This. People have been posting online warning about the dangers of the Fizzer since day one. Sheeple must open their eyes!

[@joshuaellul4352]

You say it's historic that a party supporting Irish reunification got such support in an Irish Election. But pretty much every Irish political party has a policy in favour in reunification of some form or another.

[@LowIqGod]

It's also worth noting it's not really the British government that call the border poll it's more they have to sign off on it after seeing support in a border poll

[@Adderkleet]

SF is the only one actively calling for reunification. "A referendum within 5 years". That's very different from a "we would support reunification" (which is almost every other party in Ireland).

[@MJ-cv5ye]

@@Adderkleet this is blatantly untrue. All parties want a border poll. The other parties are just not willing to have one during brexit when the peace process was under threat and the political situation was tenious. They prioritized peace while SF prioritizes its own agenda and SF dont really want a united Ireland. NI and access to UKs dodgy electorial laws on party donations are far too lucrative. Thats why they bang on about a united Ireland. Its to drum up votes in south and make other parties look bad when they have to act like grown ups and keep a lid on conflict in North & fend off Brexit. If SF really wanted a United Ireland, they'd have never caused covid to over run the north last october when they sabotaged the unionist health ministers request for Irish troops to go north & save their test and trace system. That would give their rivals good publicity up North and make them look incompetent. Thus they threw the population to the wolves by inventing a rpw over British troops no one had at that point asked to leave their barricks. Naturally DUP took the bait and said, no Brit troops, then no Irish troops. The obvious optics for a united Ireland of the Dublin gov. swooping in to clean up SF/DUPs mess would have helped united ireland sentiment and eroded unionism. SF chose their private agenda of control over a united Ireland. They voted with the DUP to send devolved powers to london on pension and welfare. Thus are proactively voting to make NI more integrated with UK, not ensuring a united Ireland in practice. They have also joined hands with DUP to get the Dublin/EU negotiated Northern Ireland protocol undermined and weakened. The NI Protocol passively encourages a united Ireland and highlights why continued union is increasingly problematic. Thus weakining it as SF did in Dec 2019 was proactively anti united Ireland. They are cynical united Irelanders. Its a slogan and a tactic. A theme to cover their real less palatable agenda and hide behind wider societal support. Not their true end goal. Their brand is toxic to 65% of the NI population, including moderate left wing nationalists. If they truely wanted a united Ireland. They'd have disbanded and demobbed themselves long ago.

[@sirfeckalot]

Really?? I've never heard a single Finna Gael TD ever express that.

[@TheLastAngryMan01]

Fine Gael and Sinn Féin have very different positions on reunification (and pretty much everything else). And I would argue that SF are the only ones who are serious about their policy, given that it's their raison d'etre.

[@Desert-Father]

Not sure what you mean as "perceived" discrimination against Catholics. Just look at the quotes by the Founders of Northern Ireland and what the point of NI was. It was always conceived of as a Protestant state.

[@bonito613]

'Protestant state for a Protestant people' - James Craig, first Prime Minister of NI

[@albertrobespierre5555]

all of them are Radical Left wing = Anti Catholic

[@truedarklander]

@@albertrobespierre5555 that's not how that works

[@seanhartnett79]

Yep

[@kellynbotha]

@@albertrobespierre5555 Did you miss the part where the Catholic majority Irish Republic is more left wing than the UK?

[@JohnCraig007]

Not "perceived". Demonstrable. Any decent historian would admit that.

[@beyond12021]

Thank-you for saying that John Craig. Beat me to-it :-D

[@archvaldor]

I'm not sure if this still happens but when I studied in NI you would get endless back and forth argument between the factions if you used anything but the most ridiculously unbiased language.

[@andrewdouglas1963]

Exactly. Just look at the psni. A white protestant male has virtually no chance of getting in compared to a Catholic.

[@tobiasL1991]

Wait wait "perceived prejudice"? Seriously coming from a British youtube channel lines like those are incredibly brazen. I know this channel likes to be neutral but for god sake, nobody's neutral about the Nazis or things that are one sidedly bad.

[@MrAidzor]

Literally just heard that line and came to comment. The only perceivable thing about the situation would have been the blatant discrimination against the Catholic community of the time!

[@CiaranGallagher1]

There is indeed no reality were that "prejudice" was just a perception. It was felt when people applied for jobs, when they tried to vote and on the wrong side of batons and guns. TL;DR seem to forget about the civil rights movement as well.

[@seanhartnett79]

Pretty much. The daily mail supported the legitimate nazi’s though

[@KarlSnarks]

Don't know quite enough about UK-Ireland relations to say if it's true or not, but yeah I wouldn't be surprised if TLDR couldn't keep their British bias in check with this video.

[@seanhartnett79]

@@KarlSnarks yep. There was widespread accusations of atrocities committed. And a secret report that got linked connected the Government, PM thatcher, MI5, MI6 and the RUC to the UVF death squads. So yes the government was funding and supplying right wing Protestant extremists to murder not just civilians but political leaders including a Catholic mayor and his family.

[@feargalkelly3534]

‘Perceived’ discrimination against catholics in Nothern Ireland in the 60’s? Really?

[@jamiegrant5955]

Yeah, I too found that statement pretty tone deaf...

[@tasia2174]

Yeah, even I caught that and I only live in NI and am not even from this island. I suspect they added that as to try to be more neutral...but facts are facts. As an example, there's actually a pub here in Belfast that the front was where Protestants went, and the back where Catholics had to go. To me, as an American, that smacks of American style segregation. Obviously that pub is not like that now, but it should never have been a thing to begin with.

[@TheLastAngryMan01]

Yeah, the discrimination has been well verified at this stage. I mean, the city of Derry had a clear nationalist majority back then but returned a Unionist majority council due to gerrymandering.

[@Niall001]

Lads! Cut the gaslighting. Discrimination was no more "perceived" in Northern Ireland than in Alabama or South Africa. You'll find numerous governmental and non-governmental, national and international reports that outline this historical fact. It is not partisan to recognise well established historical facts. If anything, only bias could allow one to suggest that prejudices & discrimination were not real.

[@TobiasTHolmes]

They could definitively confirm the war crimes due to the High Court ruling. However overwhelming the evidence for descrimination may be, that alone doesn't make it a legal fact, i think they made it *very* clear that they thought it to be the case, but explicitly stating as fact what may technically not be is a precedent they seem keen to avoid. Edit: also they're explaining why Sinn Fein acted as they did, so the facts of the matter are irrelevant, perception is all that comes into it

[@Niall001]

@@TobiasTHolmes Bull. Gerrymandering, manipulation of voting franchise laws, discrimination in housing, employment and policing are all historical facts. "Legal facts" means nothing in this context. Nobody is on trial and they were not even talking about an individual. Go watch the rest of their videos. See how many times they talk about "perceived" injustice when talking about similar situations.

[@TobiasTHolmes]

@@Niall001 Perception and precedent is what is relevant for their decision on how to report. Facts mean nothing in this context, they are not relevant, whether or not something is true is completely besides the point. People act on what they perceive, not what is, so for explanations such as this, perception is what needs to be talked about to discus/explain it. Whether those perceptions are true is an unnecessary further assertion, thus even if undisputed it serves a neutral report no good. But in some cases, as seen here with warcrimes, it is relevant to point out both sides officially deemed them as such, which effects the relationship between these political entities on this matter. So in this case, reporting that it is a legal fact is essential to the explanation. Edit: To fully explain my response to the original comment, "it is not partisan to recognise established historical facts" true, but if they always say something is a fact when it seems to be, that means every time they are non-committal they are condemning it. E.g. If you only give no comment when you're in the wrong, no comment must be assumed to mean you're in the wrong It is vital a non-partisan report establishes non-partisan precedent, and sticks to it, they are obligated to report facts ambiguously, so when they report ambiguously they are reporting ambiguously (it could be fact or not) if they do not do this they lose the ability to be non-partisan. Thus, in practise, it *is* partisan to recognising established historical facts.

[@stevenmcalister826]

@@Niall001 The good Friday Agreement was signed due to “perceived violence” between the IRA and the UVF.

[@seanhartnett79]

@@Niall001 exactly. And the UK government was subject to a war criminal trial and declared that they wouldn’t abide by it. To this day war criminals and funders of UVF terrorists run free in the government

[@thomascooper5114]

As a Englishman, our education system has failed us to be honest. Ireland are our closest country, and yet it was only in an Access Course designed for 19+ year olds I learned about British/English treatment of the Irish. I wish I knew more of this before 2016.

[@psychobear1290]

As an Irishman living in London I'm always surprised how little is known in this town about the history of the wars between our two countries and how much support we get once a person is informed. Knowledge will keep the peace brother!

[@quentinquentin6752]

Same for me but once i began researching i was overwhelmed because it is obvious and brutal. Simple point - Cromwell is admired in England but despised in Ireland. English people have no clue why. The simple fact is when he arrived in Ireland in 1649 the population was 1.6m and by the time the “war” was over the population was 900k. Do the maths! 700k reduction on 1.6m, 40%+!! It went on from there. Thrown off there land, their religion outlawed. No voting rights, no representation in government or any civil service positions. Strangers in their own country. The Famine put the cherry on the cake. A huge proportion of the British Army was stationed in Ireland overseeing food exports from the country while fully 25% or more the population were literally starving. Subsequently 1m died (thats what the books say) and 1m emigrated. All this in the most prosperous country in the world. The Irish, at least on paper, were as British as were your average English, Welsh or Scot. It is hard to wrap so much into one comment here on YT. The reality is how the Irish were treated is nothing short of shameful and scandalous. When i pop into London i often see the statue of Cromwell atop his horse outside Parliament. I wonder what the average Irish person thinks when they see that. Like a statue of Hitler to the average Jewish person. A reminder of the brutality and cruelty we reigned down on them. It’s a wonder they want anything to do with us at all. Every British child should spend at least a few hours learning what was done to the Irish. It would go some way!!

[@feministfascist]

I had an English friend of mine yell at me for supporting Sinn Féin, and she had the same thoughts as you when I explained a bit more to her. Bit of an old English trick to go colonise, occupy, and then pretend it never happened, but you're a credit to yourself for caring to learn

[@killauntie]

unbelievable!

[@NeverMakingVideos]

Yeah, and the cognitive dissonance people experience when they're made aware of that history makes some uncomfortable. A large part of perceived racism that Irish people experience in the UK comes when people are confronted with facts they don't like. I've heard similar things from people of Caribbean or Asian descent, either 1st generation or children of immigrants. Most Brits are pleasant about it, but a very vocal minority take umbrage with "revising" their whitewashed knowledge of history

[@feargach2107]

Giving credit to some English monarch for coming up with the idea of independence for Ireland is laughable. You forgot to mention the Famine, the evictions, the repression and the insurrections that took place in every generation for several hundred years. Now that was the seed for Sinn Féin.

[@adamharrold407]

Exactly

[@globalismoblackman]

Total madness of these imperialists empire invaders.

[@connorlynch6471]

Going by this video you would think that the Irish were quite happy with British rule prior to 1870 (But then a lot of the unhappy ones were dead from the famine or left) and the killings after 1916 were the first time we got upset over war crimes. The 'perceived discrimination' line is scandalous and shows no understanding of NI at all - Ever heard of the civil rights movement? This is basically Irish history from an English history textbook and you'd learn more elsewhere.

[@godlovesyou1995]

There was very little resistance in ireland from the 18th century. Wolf tone etc have just been romanticised recently

[@connorlynch6471]

@@godlovesyou1995 Firstly that is not true, secondly there has been ongoing issues since the Ulster Plantation. The flight of the Earls also caused a bit of bother and then there was Cromwell and all the genocide that he got up to, and this was all prior to the 18th Century. Please read a history book!

[@pecadodeorgullo5963]

Part of this is northern irish history as well mate.

[@crhu319]

Correct this is trash like the Ukraine videos.

[@virusladd]

Northern Irish history is Irish history. Also, this was before partition 🤦‍♂️

[@Rabidhunter123]

haven't even watched but liked and ready, YES YES YES, more information on Irish and Northern Irish politics, pleeeeeeeeeease do more on this

[@MJ-cv5ye]

This isnt more information. Just a perpetuation of Provisional propaganda. They are not educating with this video. They are legitimizing liars who have conned their way back into Irish politics by revisionism.

[@lyampetit144]

@@MJ-cv5ye You know, it's not because you don't like what's happening, that's propaganda

[@eoinh]

Given how much history they managed to fit into a 10 minute video, I'd say they did a pretty solid job of representing the situation too, Irish history/politics is so often misunderstood internationally

[@Saoirse_don_Phalaistín]

@@MJ-cv5ye get over it - NI will be no more

[@MJ-cv5ye]

@@Saoirse_don_Phalaistín what are you on about. Stop equating SF with Irish reunification. They're not one and the same things no matter how much you ego maniacs pretend it is. Irish reunification will come about in due time due to the efforts of the Irish government and SDLP in leveraging 100 odd years of Irish soverignty & legitimacy & deplomacy to use US & EU to butress Irelands position & say in NI as well as in getting the GFA negotiated. SF was not needed. And in fact in spite of their propaganda and credit stealing. It is now known the Provos went around them and basically asked the SDLP to broker their defacto surrender as they were falling apart due to factionalism and being broke. Further more the Dublin govs. efforts to secure peace in NI and Irelands continued role in NIs governance alongside securing the NI protocol and Kenny Protocols will do much more for a united Ireland than Provo SF ever has. Add to this the absolute betrayal of unionists(again) by the English government and a united Ireland is a slam dunk within 10 yrs provided Shinners dont provoke another war with their obvious triumpalist sectarianism and half assed fascism. You say get over it🙄. I say, get out of the f**king way for once.

[@LowIqGod]

I really dislike the use of "perceived discrimination" in this video Irish nationalist were discriminated against in areas such as housing, gerrymandering (look at the city of Derry), university (see building the 2nd university in Craigavon not Derry which was a far bigger city but far more nationalist) and the immediate removal of proportional representation by Craig

[@RobinKoenig1917]

TLDR news must be wary of pissing of the TUV or something

[@CiaranGallagher1]

Not the first time where their attempt to be neutral ended up appearing to take on a firmly unionist stance. In this case, I would even put this as a fringe unionist stance!

[@TheLastAngryMan01]

Thought the second university was established in Coleraine instead of Derry? The point stands nonetheless.

[@CiaranGallagher1]

@@TheLastAngryMan01 yep Coleraine, must be a typo I assume!

[@zx10rmac84]

Bollix there was deprivatation in all sides, it was a protestant that led the civil rights marches in the beginning, until they were hijacked by the SF IRA. All Marti McGuiness. The troops were called in to protect the catholic areas. Until they turned on them..Great gratitude eh.

[@ladsvideos]

Decent video overall but plenty of constructive criticism (like the mispronunciation of Eamonn & Dáil) as already noted. However the use of modern party symbols and time-jumping leads misinterpretations. Outside of the name, today's Sinn Féin has only the most tenuous links to the Sinn Féin of the War of Independence. As you noted the original Sinn Féin split into what are now Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil, with Sinn Féin disappearing until the 'Troubles'. So today's Sinn Féin are closer to SF 2.0 than a continuation of the original Republican party. Using the modern SF party logo to represent the Sinn Féin of 1918 is therefore misleading.

[@kasimsultonfan]

Agreed. In fact, today's Sinn Fein has not only the most tenuous links to the SF of the War of Independence, it has equally tenuous links to the SF of the 1969-1996 armed struggle. That rotating sound you hear is the dead of that war spinning in their graves.

[@evanogrady538]

There's bias creeping into these videos with the "perceived" language so not too surprising to see that the disconnection has been blurred also

[@Millilamb]

Very true!

[@psychobear1290]

Indeed and if the hear that fecking term "the troubles" again ! What a beautiful piece of propaganda to convince an entire nation that their unlawful armed occupation of a foreign land was nothing more than a slight inconvenience to it's people, and any objection unnecessary

[@what8139]

That's incorrect. FG were formed by Cummann na nGaedheal (pro treaty forces & the Irish unionist alliance), the national Centre Party (a large landowner party) & the fascist blueshirts. Joe Clarke was in the rising, was SF VP in 69, through the split and stated on SF's ard Comhairle until 72... along with many like Fiona Plunkett etc. They actually explained in the video how SF kept going... amazing how some English people know our history better than some Irish.

[@dubliam8064]

The pronunciation of Éamonn deValera sent a shiver up my spine

[@lizardlegend42]

At least it wasn't as bad as Dáil lol, or as he says Doyle

[@cianmcguire5647]

Tbf I like the idea of DeV’s name being mispronounced for eternity and him turning in his grave. Rot in peace lol

[@slinky7110]

It physically hurts

[@IR240474]

He doing his best in being English.

[@Julianna.Domina]

@@IR240474 his best isn't good enough

[@brianjkelleher]

Considering he only attempted to pronounce Dail Eireann, Eamonn DeVelera its clear he was terrified to try anything else he actively avoided saying Fine Gael and Finna Fail🤣

[@silverkitty2503]

probably for the best

[@shanemoran570]

surely they know an Irish person they could ask, "how to pronounce this?" Poor old E-mon.

[@brunohill3229]

@@shanemoran570 It depends which county they are from, all the others would say he had it wrong.

[@karenjeanmooney-kelleher8583]

Didn’t realise eamonn was a difficult to pronounce name till this! Or that iris news mentioning the dail was so hard to find that he couldn’t even find one clip to figure out how to pronounce it!

[@xDeiseGirlx]

I was thinking about this through the whole video 🤣

[@sriramhrishikesh9844]

75% of these comments are going to be about how things were pronounced, aren't they?

[@MandNsvideos665]

More like how things were "perceived"

[@oscarosullivan4513]

Could be worse Thomas O’ Brien of LBC can’t prounce Ireland he says island

[@xiggyplushie]

@shane long Since when has it been 'doyle' though?

[@ailinos]

@shane long Dáil Éireann (/"dawl ay-rin"/) and Taoiseach (/"tee-shochk"/ respectively you mean. His pronunciation was very rough

[@elliotwatson3754]

Well it can be annoying for things to be pronounced very incorrectly.

[@vandor1976]

As a Hungarian officially admit I did not know anybody ever try to use/copy the dualist state.

[@eatathepizza4449]

It was a very cool idea across the world for monarchists as well as reformists

[@Julianna.Domina]

@@eatathepizza4449 An even cooler idea is the wholesale abolition of all monarchies, or better, all hierarchical institutions

[@ayylmao2569]

There isn't backing for that to be a cooler idea it's just cope on your end

[@eatathepizza4449]

@@Julianna.Domina Mother anarchy loves her sons

[@eatathepizza4449]

@@xunqianbaidu6917 Sad , I liked it's shape

[@seanmasterson1448]

I've given this feedback, and I'm glad you're doing it: more Irish content!!! There is nobody in Ireland doing this wide open market for a politically hungry youth.

[@XENONEOMORPH1979]

you join the eu you will not get the nhs ,you would practically sold Ireland to the eu and you will not br free i say let Ireland vote to stay with uk or leave to follow the eu but you will not get the benefits of the nhs and public services .

[@mijicmugendo]

@@XENONEOMORPH1979 No one wants the failing socialist NHS . Your ignorance is amazing..Ireland is not part of the uk and Ireland is the 4th richest country on the planet with way higher living standards than the uk

[@XENONEOMORPH1979]

@@mijicmugendo we are 5th but what i am saying is why is it taking businesses for higher taxes as Ireland will be socialist and lose benefits from business in the long run let Ireland go it alone that fine just as long the people want it but if you join the eu orbit closer they will take what you have left . people will be poor but good luck it is your choice.

[@Clodaghbob]

xeno neomorph Ireland is not part of the UK nor does it have the NHS. Ireland is already in the EU... and is staying there.

[@mijicmugendo]

@@XENONEOMORPH1979 No you are not. The uk is 23rd. You confuse size of your economy with being rich. China has the second biggest economy and is a poor country. Remember 22% of British adults and 34% of British children live in poverty. You now have food shortages. Also you have taken no business. Just look at the facts and stop lying. Ireland is booming while the UK economy is a basketcase. You alst have the highest death toll in Europe with nearly twice the deaths per million that Ireland has . Also every international study clearly shows that Ireland has a higher living standard and a better quality of life than the uk. Just facts. Sorry if they hurt you little snowflake feelings

[@GrandKevin99]

A few things, like everyone says in the comments, it's D-ahl Éireann. Fianna Fáil was at least in name an Irish unification party (until its current leadership). Sinn Féin don't propose a massive increase in taxes on businesses, just a slight increase in PRSI contributions. Also the discrimination in Northern Ireland was not just "perceived" it was real. Catholics would be intentionally moved down the housing list, thus disallowing them from being able to vote. The constituencies they could vote in were heavily gerrymandered (see Derry City Council before it was redrawn). Internment without trial disproportionately affected Catholics. Even in the private sector, signs saying "Catholics need not apply" were very common across the 6 Counties. Hopefully that wasn't intentional. Rest of the video is pretty good and informative though.

[@davianthule2035]

given TLDR's history, I dont think it was, they tend to be pretty good on this, I suspect its down to them literally just not knowing and them trying to use neutral language, if it was pro british bias they likely wouldnt have admitted british war crimes for example.

[@Julianna.Domina]

@@davianthule2035 But the word "perceived" has a very specific implication as it's used here, seeming to imply the biggest motivator for independence wasn't/isn't real. If it was just a mistake, it was a fairly significant one

[@gavinhillick]

@@davianthule2035 Funny How their supposed mistake is one that omits the massacres committed against civilians by British soldiers and implies that the issues were a matter of perception.

[@IQzminus2]

As a Swede I’ve learned to not trust English sources about anything to do with Ireland, as it often is pretty different from how any other European country (even before the UK left the EU), the UN or any humans rights advocacy organisation report on the same events. This video isn’t the worst offender, but I would be more doubtful about how they handle Irish issues than other topics. I been struck before by them using weird phrasing and describing events in a way I would say is somewhat inaccurately. I guess they fall into the trap of expressing a centrist English approach to the issue and thinking it’s the same as unbiased. When from a outside perspective on the conflict, it’s clearly biased.

[@danielsykes7558]

I was thinking this myself. I feel like it's the responsibility of people who have benefited from colonization to be aware of that. They could have picked a centrist opincentrists. Whole island rather than just the UK or Northern Irish centrisms.

[@akgzero8141]

It wasn't perceived prejudice it was prejudice. Look up the Irish Civil Right Movement in Northern Ireland

[@Flipflopflopper]

Yeah and the IRA didn’t make it better with every Irish person now being seen as a terrorist

[@akgzero8141]

@@Flipflopflopper true and I never said they did

[@akgzero8141]

Adding this on as well, the sectarianism shown on tv due to the violence by British forces to peaceful protests led to far more people being easily led down Nationalist circles and led to a vicious cycle of violence. the IRA was not justified in its own responses but they're resurgence did not come about from a vacuum. It was the result of the Northern Ireland Government's terrible handling of these situations

[@gavinhillick]

@@Flipflopflopper The IRA didn't cause centuries of British colonialism or discriminations against Irish people. They were a reaction to It.

[@jacobmacaree3063]

@@gavinhillick Ireland isn't a colony. lmao

[@envysart797]

Not enough people- particularly English people - know about Irish nationalism. Good to make videos about it, because it’s impossible to get why brexit is in such choppy waters without this context

[@stephenmurphy2212]

True. English people need to be taught more about their colonial past.

[@thescotchirishman3373]

@@stephenmurphy2212 agreed

[@danhunt3327]

Not sure what english people you speak but almost everyone I know, mostly younger generation, are at least aware of the troubles and the background to it, even if they might not know the fine details.

[@cobbler9113]

Irish Nationalism can try to make itself all nice and cuddly to try and distinguish itself from others, but like every other form of nationalism, it's toxic, divisive and doesn't deserve a place in the civilised world. Nothing wrong with patriotism and a bit of flag flying for sure, I've just seen from casual observations that Irish nationalism more often than not translates into hating England and Britain with a passion.

[@Maazzzo]

@@danhunt3327 Then why did I have to explain to all of my English friends why it was such a big problem when the DUP gained more power? And what Brexit meant for the GFA. All any of them knew was 'the troubles exist.' These are intelligent, educated people (some are academics) and they still had no idea what a big deal the DUP was.

[@timokross]

I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume that you used "perceived discrimination" in an attempt to use neutral or objective language. I don't think that was a wise choice in this case. It was unnecessarily cautious language with the (hopefully unintended) side-effect of dismissing the real discrimination and oppression people suffered. I hope you'll do more videos on Irish politics in the future because I find them genuinely interesting, but if you do I hope you'll choose your words with greater care.

[@noelpucarua2843]

"Perceived", you say. When you are hit on the head with a truncheon you perceive it. But you wouldn't call it a perceived assault.

[@joeavreg2254]

You would if you are the one who fails to perceive swinging it so hard.

[@raybo64]

Sinn Féin itself played NO part in the 1916 Rising. But some of its members took part in the Rising, together with the Irish Republican Brotherhood (IRB) and the Irish Citizen Army. Sinn Féin stayed out of the Rising and actually opposed it. Strange, isn't it?

[@smoley3310]

Yeah, the reason it was called the Sinn Fein rebellion was due to many fighters joining Sinn Fein later on and heavily influencing the party’s direction.

[@kasimsultonfan]

I'd be genuinely interested in seeing your source(s) for the assertion that Sinn Fei (as a party rather than individually) opposed the 1916 Rising.

[@damianflanagan7359]

Sinn Féin today cannot claim to be a Nationalist party….It’s not Ourselves Alone… they promote open immigration (1998).

[@a.jbradley]

Sinn fein actually were not involved very much at all in the 1916 rising which is why its ironic that it was nicknamed the sinn fein rising. Look into the IRB or the irish volunteers and cumann na mbán who were the actual contributors 👍🏻

[@danksheev66]

Yeah I was gonna say I thought that was a myth largely invented by the British press.

[@kevinboushel154]

There's a big difference between Cumann na mBan and Cumann na mBán... 👀

[@a.jbradley]

@@kevinboushel154 O4 in irish doing me well then ahaha i always mix the two up

[@kevinboushel154]

@@a.jbradley but a H1 for history!

[@jimmyryan5880]

People assumed Sinn Fein were behind it. So instead of fighting the perception the volunteers took over Sinn Fein.

[@firstsecond9569]

This is first English discussion on Irish politics I've seen that isn't heavily biased. "Dáil" and Éamon de Valera were pronounced very wrong though

[@cynthiakazmierzski8144]

They never, ever bother to research how to pronounce any unfamiliar words, yet they ask people to support their channel financially and obviously make a good deal of cash from advertising.

[@gavinhillick]

"Perceived discrimination against Catholics or nationalists...."

[@quarrzi]

@@cynthiakazmierzski8144 Oh no, they pronounced some words wrong from a language they don't speak, how terrible!

[@frankmanthey7725]

The fact you think this exposes your own unseen biases.

[@firstsecond9569]

@@gavinhillick Good point. But it's nowhere near as bad as British news normally is.

[@danieldeburgh8437]

Wasn’t perceived discrimination. There is categorical evidence of discrimination.

[@mijicmugendo]

It wasn't discrimination. They murdered millions of irish people for centuries

[@jonyeohhhh8078]

Northern Ireland had to litteraly pass a fair employment act in the 70s to try to stop discrimination. It wasn't really 'percieved', saying that it was is simply not journalism, it is extremely 'British biased' and belittles anyone who has ever faced discrimination

[@watfordgap6737]

You mean like the Unionists in Catholic majority areas? Are you really naive enough to think all the seething bigotry goes only one way?

[@MandNsvideos665]

@@watfordgap6737 no he means the wretched and blatent discrimination against the catholics in Northern Ireland. Take you head out of your arse lad

[@clancywiggam]

@@watfordgap6737 Oh my God, are you serious. The "Good people on both sides" argument!

[@ZahnZee]

1:19 Sinn Féin were not directly involved in the Irish Rising of 1916. The Easter Rising was conducted by the Irish Republican Brotherhood; with help from the Irish Volunteers, The Irish Citizens Army and Cumann na mBan. The Rising was a Republican Nationalist upsizing which Sinn Féin did not support as they were, as you've already outlined, a party chasing a duel-monarchy (a position in direct opposition to Republicanism). The Rising was about total separation from the United Kingdom and the Proclamation of an Irish Republic. Sinn Féin were associated with the Rising by British Media in it's aftermath; this lead to a wave of support after the 1916 leaders were executed; even though Sinn Fein had no direct involvement. Check your sources more closely, this is a pretty major thing to get so wrong so early in a video on the history of Sinn Féin

[@evancleary3315]

precieved prejudice? nothing percieved about dead bodies fella

[@billjane5522]

You mean the women and children killed by the IRA?

[@evancleary3315]

@@billjane5522 no i dont mean them, I mean the subjugation of the Irish people within the north of ireland unde unionist and british rule. Theres no smoke without fire and there would of been no IRA without the subjugation of the catholic minority

[@cianmcguire5647]

@@billjane5522 Why did the IRA begin an armed campaign in NI? It was an apartheid state like Palestine today. You’d do well to look beyond the tip of your own nose. British troops were even sent to protect catholic’s initially and turned their backs on them. What choice did Britain leave?

[@TheIlluminatiDetect]

@@cianmcguire5647 because it was occupied by British Forces who would never leave Ireland without the (never coming) go-ahead from the planter population in their partitioned, Protestant, stolen non-country. The simple fact is had any other race/nation of people in the world been put in the same situation as the Irish in the 20th century, I'm thinking about the latter half here, at least some of them would have done the same thing - stand up and fight for their people and country against foreign tyranny and maltreatment.

[@stevenmcalister826]

@@billjane5522 No we mean the much larger quantity of women and children subjugated or killed by loyalists.

[@damippler8302]

Precieved discrimination was a wierd way to put what was going on in northern Ireland

[@alex29443]

What is often ignored is that similar things were happening to the Protestant minority in the ROI at the same time. Ugly all round.

[@DeusAsmoth]

@@alex29443 No there wasn't?

[@alex29443]

@@DeusAsmoth There absolutely was, it just doesn't get the press, lots of protestants went from ROI to NI in this period for this reason.

[@stevenmcalister826]

@@alex29443 Why wouldn’t they? It was a Protestant state for Protestant people. AND they were treated as the superior over Catholics.

[@alex29443]

@@stevenmcalister826 Ignoring the mistreatment of protestants in the ROI is just whitewashing Irish history.

[@thejimmydanly]

Based on nothing more than my love of Star Trek, I want Ireland to reunite in 2024.

[@beyond12021]

aww, it will come to-pass :-D

[@jeromereidy]

which has been edited out o tng for some reason , maybe just uktv not sure why but ye data rules

[@deadpanbarry5442]

@@jeromereidy What language are you typing.... 🤔 Is it Pigeon English.... Just asking.

[@aislingcomiskey8308]

I love how he gave the uk credit for dual monarchy and some semblance of independence, not like we had been fighting for it for years or anything, was all yours thanks

[@latinman1736]

There was never any suggestion of a dual monarchy by Ireland until Arthur Griffith in 1905, so the first people to talk about a dual monarchy solution were British.

[@toyotaprius79]

Or the land wars from the 1860s onwards, not a single mention of Parnell who had fought for Home Rule throughout his political career.

[@feirmebeardonn4597]

Well....with an accent like that telling what my grandad went through was mearly a "perception", makes me think that cognitive dissonance is really an english trait.

[@nigelhaywood9753]

I found that extremely offensive too. That's the problem with this 'unbiased, 100% objectivity' idea. At a superficial level it can serve some purpose I suppose but as soon as you investigate a bit more you're going to gradually lose terms like 'perceptions'.

[@kevinxu3892]

The dissonance is also very present in England's descendants. The language of neutrality burying trauma is a very common theme among swing state Democrats in the US: gotta recognize the minorities but not too much or else the uncomfortable history will make the white wealthy voters upset

[@thefrenchareharlequins2743]

It's probably been pointed out numerous times at this point but there is a typo at 1:22

[@suren2313]

How come you have your username with Armenian letters ?

[@thefrenchareharlequins2743]

@@suren2313 why not?

[@1adamgarcia2003]

the whole Irish island deserve to be united, they deserve better.

[@eod1675]

Ah lads. Really appreciate your hard work, but is it so hard to just ask an Irish person how to pronounce something before butchering the hell out of it? We shouldn’t be the ones to suffer because of the anglicization of our language ;)

[@salm5401]

Don't the Doyle family seem very prominent in Irish politics? Dáil rhymes with wall or ball - it almost sounds like doll, but with a wider vowel sound. Eamon is pronounced Ay-min. The nationalist minority in Northern Ireland faced actual discrimination, not just perceived. Nationalists had Gerry Adams, Unionists had Gerry Mandering. The 1916 Rising happened in 1916, not 1906. And Sinn Féin didn't actually have a lot to do with it - the media just gave them the credit and they went with it. All major political parties in Ireland want a 32 county Ireland. Fianna Fáil literally call themselves THE republican party. It's not remarkable that the biggest party want a unified Ireland. That's always been the case. And as others have pointed out, one of the biggest factors in Sinn Féins surge of popularity is nothing to do with Britain. Irish people, particularly young Irish people are tired of the two centre-right parties who've been in power throughout Irish history (Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil). Sinn Féin have gained because of government inaction on housing, on healthcare, on education. People vote Sinn Féin to vote against the Government, and to vote for a left wing party.

[@SeanGHOB]

Dáil sounds more like Doyle than dall or doll here in Munster. It should be pronounced as two syllables Dá-il, not one.

[@TheIlluminatiDetect]

>two centre right parties Neither Fianna Fáil nor Fine Gael are "centre-right". They are centrist neoliberals who many people like to refer to as, and believe them to be, "centre-right". FG (who are Europhiles, pro-abortion, pro-mass migration) literally refer to themselves as 'the party of the progressive centre'. If FF/FG politicians were in America the *overwhelming* majority of them would be part of the Democrat party - alongside Shinners and the rest.

[@lizardlegend42]

@@TheIlluminatiDetect Left and right are meaningless in Irish politics at least. They all have pretty similar stances on social issues, barring the REALLY out there parties nobody votes for, like the 'Nationalist Party'. The main issues in Irish elections are austerity and taxes,

[@salm5401]

@@TheIlluminatiDetect you can't map American political compasses (or binaries) onto Irish politics. No mainstream parties opposed marriage equality or repealing the 8th amendment. No mainstream parties are anti-EU. FF and FG in the Irish political sphere.

[@TheIlluminatiDetect]

@@salm5401 whilst to an extent I think I agree - our politics have become far too much influenced by British and American politics - the political compass isn't solely American. As I said earlier, FG refer to themselves as the party of the progressive CENTRE, so isn't that them putting themselves on the compass? I see no issue in my saying that FF/FG aren't centre-right

[@Jimboken1]

Very good. Congrats! Dail is pronounced ‘Dawl’ as in awl or rawlplug

[@CC-wf2qb]

or Doyle for the lemen

[@mijicmugendo]

@@CC-wf2qb No wrong

[@eoinokeeffe7014]

It's pronounced doil or dawl. Both are correct.

[@TheBrainDunne]

It sounds wrong. But good video.

[@robsmithadventures1537]

It depends on the dialect actually.

[@olegperkopskiy2282]

Great informative video! As someone living in Ireland I think Sinn Fein has been doing really well on the mainland because more and more people are unhappy with how FG and FF (the two parties who have historically ruled Ireland since 1920) have been running the country. A vote for Sinn Fein is more a vote for a left wing party than a vote for Irish reunification (although that is popular too). The housing crisis and issues with the healthcare system are driving people away from the neoliberal Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil and towards leftist parties

[@kingofcards9]

As an Irishman I'm not a big fan of Sinn Fein as one of their promises is to introduce hate speech laws which is terrible.

[@caolangordon8167]

What hate speech laws?

[@kingofcards9]

@@caolangordon8167 Sinn Fein wish to implement both hate crime and hate speech laws into Ireland.

[@kingofcards9]

@Stephen K the hate speech laws are yes

[@kingofcards9]

@Stephen K that's literally from Sinn Feins website.

[@kingofcards9]

@Stephen K mate,listen, that link is to an article on Sinn Feins website wanting to bring in hate speech laws, if you still believe they don't then I don't know what to tell you except for have a nice day.

[@isaactrio]

I don’t know why you put “perceived” discrimination

[@evanogrady538]

There's a bit of bias creeping in on some videos

[@jamesmalone2007]

Dail is pronounced like "brawl", not "doyle"

[@jamescampbell1170]

10:02 lol

[@Adderkleet]

Except they'd also pronounce brawl like "broul". It's a very O-sounding A, and not the long/fada Á of Hiberno-English.

[@mijicmugendo]

No its not

[@derek1117]

No, it's pronounced like Doyle.

[@mijicmugendo]

@@derek1117 No it's not. Its pronounced dawl!

[@jamsheehan]

Dáil is generally pronounced Dawl rather than Dayle.. Eamon is also generally pounced Aay-mon rather than E-mon

[@yeowchers]

Wikipedia says "doyl" so he's **obviously** right

[@jamsheehan]

@@yeowchersah here.. that wiki pronunciation must be a different regional dialect thing up there in Dublin to the rest of us. But I did learn Irish in a Cork school.. so 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@yeowchers]

@@jamsheehan yeah I was never taught that pronunciation either. All major dictionaries say doyl though 🤔

[@jamsheehan]

@@yeowchers blind asked the wife (asked her what the parliament in Ireland is called so not to influence her answer) and she pronounced it as Dawl.. as there's a fada over the a so it's a aw sound.. maybe it's "posh Irish" 🤔

[@TheiFire]

@@jamsheehan you're dead right about how you pronounce the a fada. Anything else would be incorrect or at best a weird accent

[@JJMcCullough]

Do Sinn Fein MPs who refuse to take their seats in Westminster still get paid? Do they get pensions? I've never understood the logistics of how all that works.

[@kerryosullivan3736]

Yes and yes

[@ruairi4901]

*Sinn Fein are* *"Brits Out* *Everyone Else In"* *Vote The National Party🇮🇪*

[@rusticpartyeditz]

They claim various expenses but they do not take their salary. I assume they do not get a pension as this would be related to their salary.

[@rusticpartyeditz]

@@kerryosullivan3736 No and no.

[@Gillemear]

@@ruairi4901 No thanks. National Party got less than 1% of the vote in the recent general election, have zero TDs and were on the loosing side (no) for the Abortion referendum. Coupled with their frankly xenophobic and ultra-right wing views and policies, why would any want to waste their vote on them!

[@luke.perkin.online]

First past the post poisons UK politics. Anything that returns power to local people and allows them to choose their own policy is a good thing.

[@TheJeremyHolloway]

Do you support a Federal UK?

[@luke.perkin.online]

@@TheJeremyHollowayIt's a nice dream. Devo max for Yorkshire, the south west, and so on. Whilst we're at it, can we have public tax return registers, zonal planning laws, nationalisation of all aristocratic land and buildings, local income tax and then when AI robots take all our jobs, universal basic income?

[@raybo64]

And the discrimination against the Catholic minority by successive Northern Ireland statelet Unionist Governments was, in fact, REAL, not perceived.

[@jfinn3575]

The same thing happened to the prods in the south after the split, they became in the minority and the on the receiving of violence and confiscating their lands. The only difference was there was no campaign of sympathy for them.

[@raybo64]

@@jfinn3575 I don't think you can compare the two.

[@CiaranGallagher1]

That "perceived prejudice" a little understated I think. Jobs discrimination, voting discriminations, police and military violence, triumphalist sectarian parades etc.

[@ndkiwikid]

ERROR spotted at 1 minute 22 seconds into the video: the graphic lists the Easter rising of “1906” when it should be “1916”. Please correct this.

[@fiddley]

This is the first KZbin video I have ever felt the need to make notes for. So much information so fast! Thanks!

[@seanomaille8157]

Generally I find you videos fair and well researched but...your badge for UK "countries" ? The north east corner of Ireland is not a country just as the north east of Wales, Scotland or England is not a country. And what's with the "perceived" discrimination of nationalists in the north? It would be really useful to do a detailed examination of the myriad ways in which discrimination was practiced from 1920 to 1999 in the six counties. This is so often denied by British nationalists as is the fact that the troubles began when peaceful protest was met with violence in the late 60's and early 70's. The first killings were committed by British nationalists at a time when the IRA had basically disbanded.

[@JamesHussey404]

Finally found a comment basically saying what I was about to say in my comment.

[@nedhappened3085]

From 1920 to 1970 Catholics were denied votes, jobs and housing in NI. They were responsible for only one piece of legislation, "The preservation of wild birds". We shall overcome, Catholics shouted, the most important thing is we go from downtrodden to equality. I for one have no interest in dominating my Unionist neighbour's, be they British or Irish or Other.

[@joedonnelly6721]

I completely agree, easy to understand if you are Irish but too deep for the English. For example, a lot of English people I know will never see the British empire as anything but a force for good.

[@TheLastAngryMan01]

Yup, the UVF killed the first several victims of the Troubles at a time when the IRA had pretty much disbanded. Hence the graffiti seen in nationalist West Belfast after the loyalist pogroms "IRA-I Ran Away". There was no one to defend places like Bombay Street from loyalist petrol bombs at that time.

[@rusticpartyeditz]

This video was about the rise of SF, not the troubles. And NI is part of the UK. Whether you call it a province or whatever, it is a constituent devolved part of the UK, like Wales or Scotland. Comparing NI to a part of Wales is ridiuculous. The fact you won't even say NI shows your bias against NI and why Ireland will never be united. Dream on.

[@savannaha5038]

I'm from Canada but I've been looking into Irish politics lately... and I have to say, as of right now I can't understand why anyone would be a unionist. Britain seems to care far less about NI than unionists care for the UK, it's very one-sided, plus they'd gain access to the EU again. What is there to lose?

[@gillespaling7039]

Identity.

[@cheeseymattybob]

I feel really ignorant- I didn’t realise they were also a party in the Republic (I’m British btw). Sooner you’re reunified the better 👍

[@Nilsy1975]

Me too. I was surprised how ignorant I was and I'm British too.

[@stephenmurphy2212]

They’re a cross-border party.

[@xander1O1O7]

The majority of Northern Ireland does not want to join with Ireland though, its still majority Unionist

[@busterodonoghue9713]

@@xander1O1O7 a lot of poll disagree with what you said

[@rossswann3346]

But the majority still want to stay in the UK

[@kieran_bk]

Guys we were a Dominion from 1922-1937, in 1937 we declared independence as a constitutional monarchy and in 1949 we became a republic.

[@spudders9034]

As a unionist im not totally against the idea of a united ireland, but both ROI and NI have to get their own affairs in order first, Northern Irelands religious divide needs to be squashed, however I don't think I could stay in a Sinn Fein led Ireland

[@seanegan8150]

The ideal approach, and one promoted by Mary Lou during a Prime Time or a Claire Byrne episode, is that a unified Ireland isn't the Republic just gaining land, it's the formation of a new state. A complete overhaul of Ireland. That's where we get the chance to sort out the issues and draft a good constitution. We know that having a religious minority dominated by another leads to economic discrimination (the policies of the North from the 50s onwards), so we'd outlaw economic discrimination and put checks in place to ensure s situation like that wouldn't arise. We'd commit to an Irish NHS. Basically, we need to all have a conversation about what a unified Ireland NEEDS to look like and what we can do to ensure that the new state is peaceful and anti-discriminatory. I understand hesitancy around the role of Sinn Féin but the bigger picture of the foundation of an entirely new state is what's important. I appreciate the support for the idea and I hope that, when our island is eventually united, that people like you and I and anyone in between can live side by side in peace and understanding.

[@spudders9034]

@@seanegan8150 i totally agree with every word you've said It has to be a New Ireland Not the Republic gaining 6 counties

[@rusticpartyeditz]

I don't like the idea of a SF led NI either. Although they would not have a majority in Stormont, but the idea of a republican party being the face of NI nauseates me.

[@josemama428]

Ireland for The Irish, blood and soil!

[@basblijdorp6735]

The Strategy of Sinn Fein to Play the Long Game it a smart move, time is on their side. The younger Generation that grew up after 1999 looks at the whole debate much more pragmatically. Secondly with the Tories making mistakes like they have and the DUP failing to deliver, it makes sense not to rush the referendum for SF POV. Even if DUP refuses to form a government with SF, it will fall mostly on the DUP that the short term issues are not being solved further boosting the confidence in SF. I think we will see the SF leadership being patient and stick to their story of delivering on every day issues. The more tories and DUP making mistakes like they do it will come to them. Irish unity is think becoming invertible, the question is how not if but when.

[@rapier1954]

The population is now a Catholic majority and given the demographics based on the mix of school children that majority is going to increase a great deal within ten years. NO guarantee that will result in a vote to join the Republic unless Brexit proves to be bad for Britain and from the looks of it that is going to happen. In regards to Westminister failing to grant a vote on reunification in the case of an overwhelming Catholic Nationalist majority poll I would not want to be the politician who tried that unless I had a death wish.

[@richardcoppack5357]

The DUP badly miscalculated when they supported Brexit. This will accelerate the push towards a referendum. Traditional unionism is fading.

[@nadeemchaudhry6585]

Another great video. Having myself narrowly avoided a bomb in NI 20 years ago, I know how emotive this subject is. IMO within 2 generations there will be reunification

[@engineer4931]

id say itd be within the next 15 years because the unionists are losing their numbers in Ulster

[@lizardlegend42]

@Rusty Shackleford Eh, Sinn Fein at least in the North are being WAY too aggressive with reunification, almost wanting more to provoke unionists than be sure to maintain the peace. The likes of SDLP handle the situation far better and less aggressively imo.

[@rusticpartyeditz]

@@lizardlegend42 Isn't it ironic that the party most calling for unification are actually making it less attractive and less likely? Long may they continue.

[@lizardlegend42]

@@rusticpartyeditz it seems to be a feature of both sides lol. The DUP have done more to progress reunification with Brexit and their general shenanigans than any republican party could ever dream of 😂

[@22grena]

And the next episode: The fall of Sinn Fein

[@peterpickaxe09]

Uniting Ireland would solve so many problems, and create even more.

[@stevenmcalister826]

What are the benefits of retaining the two state system?

[@MrWeeseAChine]

@@mcfcfan1870 oh yeah, definitely didn’t have a slight period where the north was literally on fire because of this line of thinking.

[@orionspero560]

I think it would only create a lot of problems of problems if the reunification ended with a United Irish Republic as opposed to a United Irish realm what the video calls a dominion. I think that if the the oysters were given the palace that is Alice that the UUP and the majority of the the loyalists wood consider that a major compromise and reassurance. You would still have the DUP/TUP upset but I think they would end up being a majority of the unionists.

[@theressomelovelyfilthdownh4329]

@@MrWeeseAChine Not because a group of people had little to no rights since the state was formed. Years of marches being beaten into the group by state police and troops. Loyalist mobs backed by the state killing people and burning them out of their homes. Look up the burning of Bombay street, that's when the troubles started. I suggest you actually look at the history that lead up to the troubles because you seem woefully ignorant to those facts. None of which will be repeated in a united Ireland. And lastly, I actually live here and old enough to have lived through the troubles in one of the hardest hit border towns. Do you really think that we want to do the same awful nonsense to others?

[@xerlek4581]

I agree. Economically speaking, it would be a disaster. The transition would have to be extremely slow and gradual.

[@anonitachi6966]

"perceived" discrimination? Look who owns the land. Look how holds the most senior positions. Look at the DUPe/UDA. Look how the RUC went about their business. There is no perception, it is reality. Even today.

[@lastp6905]

Classic British bias

[@rusticpartyeditz]

@@lastp6905 Anti-British bias?

[@rusticpartyeditz]

And people want a united Ireland. It will never be united with hatred like this.

[@stevenmcalister826]

@@rusticpartyeditz So pointing out how discrimination against Catholics undeniably happened is “hatred” now? I guess MLK only fuelled the civil rights movement because he hated white people.

[@lastp6905]

@@rusticpartyeditz How is calling clear and obvious injustices that Catholics suffered at the hands of Protestant Unionists “perceived injustices” an anti-British bias?

[@kevinmcsweeney6560]

They are going down rapid, the Irish people are not stupid, they can see that Sinn Fein are the same as FFG

[@antonralph6947]

Sinn Fein don't have a monopoly on Irish nationalism. traditional Irish nationalism were strongly pro life and certainly wouldn't recognize neo Irish nationalism. Traditional Irish nationalism were strongly Christian and would have problems with Sinn Fein anti Christian values.

[@olegperkopskiy2282]

Great video, but a correction: Dáil Éireann is pronounced ‘Dawl Erin’ and not Doyle airmen

[@seanmcmanus2777]

In fancy Irish I think doyle is accurate

[@jamesquaine6264]

Watch RTÉ or TG4 news and you'll see they pronounce it as doyle

[@olegperkopskiy2282]

@@jamesquaine6264 I guess my Irish is better than that of the RTE presenters then lol

[@cacamilis8477]

Dáil is pronounced more like "DAW-il", and Éamon more like "Ay-muhn" akin to Raymond. Otherwise great video!

[@tipperary1082]

Dawl is fine too. Unless you're Eileen Dunne

[@steakismeat177]

Also fun fact, Éamon was actually American.

[@hammy1999]

@@steakismeat177 that’s why they didn’t shoot him

[@etmcguire]

@@steakismeat177 Born in New York, Irish mother, raised in Ireland from the age of two. How is he not Irish?

[@steakismeat177]

@@etmcguire because he wasn’t considered Irish by the crown due to his American birth and thus not a subject of the king he was rebelling against

[@stephenmurphy2212]

Sinn Fein actually had no involvement in the 1916 Easter Rising, but nevertheless got blamed for it by the British authorities. That’s why they mis-dubbed it a “Sinn Féin Rebellion”. TLDR is making the same mistake they did! 😂😂

[@pkh945]

Sinn Féin changed a lot after being incorrectly blamed for the rising(this would've been the IRB as mentioned elsewhere in the comments by others). It attracted republicans to the party as a consequence of being blamed, not as due to their policies prior to the rising which would include a move towards a dual monarchy system and some nationalistic economic policies.

[@Ruairitrick]

They are correct that Arthur Griffith initiated the party on the duel monarchy policy. They say that Sinn Fein members largely took part in the rising, which is true.

[@PeterFlanagan0987]

No tbf they actually did support a dual monarchy. After the rising there was an influx of new members of a more Republican tradition.

[@TreforTreforgan]

I was punched in the head in a pub the other night. I came away with the perception of having been punched in the head.

[@knextoor6917]

Sinn Fein are not a nationalist party. They are part of the establishment now in Ireland and share the very same values. They are NOT for the Irish people and Ireland.

[@JayTeeDE]

Would like more historic videos about current and former british parties. Both for parties like Labour and the Conservatives as well as more "obscure" but I think very interesting parties like Independent Labour (George Orwells party) or the British national party.

[@thomasxl3975]

As long as we have first past the post, we'll never see a change unfortunately

[@FatRonaldo1]

@@thomasxl3975 what other solution would you propose over FPTP?

[@thomasxl3975]

@@FatRonaldo1 Proportional representation but it only 6 parties are allowed to participate; A Social Democrat party, A Center left party, A centrist party, A Center right party and a UKIP like party

[@jibraeel]

@@thomasxl3975 that’s not democratic by constraining who can run and who can’t

[@thomasxl3975]

@@jibraeel Well unless you want the UK to turn into Italy, where there are like 500 parties and new prime ministers every year, I suggest Propotional representation with 5 parties

[@Chadleyization]

Agree with other commenters: Dáil is not pronounced like “doyle” but more like blending “daw” and “ill” together and saying it like one word. The accent on top of the “a” lengthens the sound into an “aw” sound. PS Any chance ye’ll Brexit out of the 6 counties?

[@km-ug4dq]

D-aww-ll.

[@bleddynwolf8463]

ilke mrs doyle from father ted?

[@macker33]

Just the english accent, english accent has very round vowels.

[@lizardlegend42]

@@macker33 dáil is pronounced properly with long vowels, so that makes no difference

[@macker33]

@@lizardlegend42 I'm from cork, ever hear an english person say cork? if so then you know exactly what i'm saying.

[@knasher]

Fascinating subject, I thoroughly support Irish reunification so it's good to finally hear more about it on this side of the Irish Sea

[@dazza2350]

Same

[@DeathBySlushPuppy]

You are incorrect about the Easter Rising being a Sinn Fein Rising. The British government blamed Sinn Fein incorrectly when it was actually the IRB (Irish Republican Brotherhood). Irish people were initially against the rising but the British governments actions such as executing the Risings leaders garnered public sympathy for the rebels. As the British government had already accused Sinn Fein for it and the switching of public opinion in favour of the rebels they naturally decided to take credit for it even thought Sin Fein had virtually nothing to do with the Rising.

[@silverdeathgamer2907]

Interment also and the conscription crisis helped boost Sin Feins popularity at that point.

[@DeathBySlushPuppy]

@@silverdeathgamer2907 Yes of course, the poor judgements of the IPP created a vacuum for Sinn Fein to step in to.

[@seanslevin8732]

Why do KZbin channels never take ten minutes to Google the proper pronunciation of Irish words and names? I'm sure you spent plenty of time on the script, so why wing the pronunciations?

[@shaneryan7622]

It is truly historical that Sinn Féin have now got the popular vote in the north and south, as you spoke about reunification coming back into the mainstream and since Brexit it has. Claire Byrne did a debate on it and it went down well, times are changing on this island.

[@Madamar1]

Yeah it really did, it came to everyone agreeing that wether you agree on unionism or not with the Republic, it's a topic that deserves to be publicly spoken about. As an Irish man, its lovely to finally see a majority wanting to peacefully debate and communicate about unionism instead of protests and violence, a huge step forward for all parties.

[@cobbler9113]

I think that's a bit optimistic. Unionist parties still get more votes than Nationalist ones at elections and Sinn Fein being ahead is more to do with Unionist infighting and the Alliance Party taking the soft Unionist vote in many places in Northern Ireland than a surge in Nationalist support. The 2015 UK General Election demonstrated what happens when the Unionists work together when they made gains at Nationalist and Alliance expense and a Sinn Fein First Minister would probably be the proverbial kick in the rear for them.

[@shaneryan7622]

@@cobbler9113 you can’t compare all unionist parties to one nationalist party and say that’s how it goes, doesn’t work like that buddy, SDLP greens and Sinn Fén are nationalists and I’ll tell you one this itll be the nationalists that will have first minister for the first time ever in the north, also this centenary is a sham pretty miserable celebration of partition if you ask me hahaha. SDLP and greens are considered nationalist. You will see a nationalist first minister with the way its polling, and if they’re not happy? What they gunna do? Ulster is green baby

[@cobbler9113]

@@shaneryan7622 That's what I'm referring to. I've checked and the Unionist parties have always got more votes than all the Nationalist ones including the SDLP and People Before Profit. Also the Greens in NI are technically neutral so I don't know if you can really include them. Not that it matters as they rarely get enough votes to be relevant. In any case, in Westminster Elections the votes are as follows: 2001: Unionist Parties: 52.10% Nationalist Parties: 41.70% 2005: Unionists: 51.90% Nationalists: 41.80% 2010: Unionists: 50.00% Nationalists: 42.00% 2015: Unionists: 49.90% Nationalists: 38.40% 2017: Unionists: 48.00% Nationalists: 41.10% 2019: Unionists: 43.00% Nationalists: 38.90% So actually, the "Green" vote has been going down on average alongside the Unionists. In any case, the Nationalists are a long way off being collectively ahead let alone with a clear majority which would be enough to change the status of Northern Ireland.

[@stevenmcalister826]

@@cobbler9113 So does it not count of the opposing party is doing badly? That’s called politics, catch up. In that case, the conservatives aren’t actually doing well, Labour are just doing badly.

[@seanmcgouran4091]

This is a fairly standard Anglo 'reading' of Irish history. It's all Emotional Reaction. against The [Dublin] Castle and the London Government. And not result of notions, ideas, and tendencies, around since (well, 1848 - the Young Ireland Rising), which solidified and became widespread after the death of Parnell. Meaning the Easter Rising was at least two decades in the making. It was designed as a series of Risings emanating out of Dublin (but missing Ulster, due to the ethno-sectarian problem[s] there. There was a Turn-Out - and fight - in Connacht, but it was small, and easily dealt with. The Dublin Rising was not dealt with particularly brutally (by Brit standards) - but, times (& minds) had changed.

[@michaelmayhem350]

Here's to hoping Ireland reunification happens sooner rather than later.

[@rusticpartyeditz]

Here's hoping not.

[@rajkaranvirk7525]

It's probably not gonna happen

[@jasonirwin2947]

🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪 for life

[@retardcapital2976]

reunified under the union jack of course.

[@SeamusOCleirigh2002]

Lovee the Irish stuff💚, the pronunciation of the Irish however I didn't love so much lmaoo

[@Musikur]

That's okay, no one every pronounces anything in Australia right either, and thats even the same language most of the time (except for the place names which are aboriginal)

[@cjon6898]

I never understand why so many of my fellow Irish like you get on FOREIGNERS backs so much for mispronouncing Irish words. Virtually no-one outside of Ireland has ANY knowledge of the language so why should they all be expected to pronounce Irish words perfectly? Get a life.

[@cjon6898]

P.S. spelling your name in Irish doesn't make you more Irish. My name is Conn Mór Ó Néill

[@illyboulder2557]

Plantations in 16th- and 17th-century Ireland involved the confiscation of Irish-owned land by the English Crown and the colonisation of this land with settlers from Great Britain. The Crown saw the plantations as a means of controlling, anglicising and 'civilising' parts of Ireland. The main plantations took place from the 1550s to the 1620s, the biggest of which was the plantation of Ulster. The plantations led to the founding of many towns, demographic and economic changes, changes in land ownership and the landscape, and also to ethnic and sectarian conflict. They took place before and during the earliest English colonisation of the Americas, and a group known as the West Country Men were involved in both Irish and North American colonization.[1] From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[@rusticpartyeditz]

Yeah, and Irish Nationalists want the "settlers" who have been here 400 years to leave.

[@TheJeremyHolloway]

The Crown and Parliament were behind having Scots settle in Northern Ireland. Yet the Scots originated from Northern Ireland before conquering and intermixing with the Picts in what is now known as Scotland. So perhaps the re-unification that should really happen would be between Northern Ireland and Scotland.

[@rusticpartyeditz]

@@TheJeremyHolloway if there is one person I really dislike it's Nicola Sturgeon. Yuck.

[@illyboulder2557]

i think you mean the english germanic scots.@@TheJeremyHolloway

[@ciaransavio]

I am really glad that the channel is covering some Irish politics, but wow some of the pronunciations are just atrocious!😂

[@Dcoool77]

Why not make an Irish Pin with Northern Ireland sitting on its shoulder dangling its legs like a child on its parents shoulder.

[@evanogrady538]

probably offensive to both primary groups

[@SiVlog1989]

John D Ruddy, an Irish Illustrator, Historian and KZbinr, said that the parties that emerged from the Irish War of Independence, Finna Fáil and Fine Geal, are essentially two sides of the same coin

[@kingofcards9]

John has an open left wing bias that he admits are in his videos.

[@SiVlog1989]

@@kingofcards9 I can't pretend to be an expert on where the two leading parties in Ireland stand on the political spectrum to give an opinion, all I've heard is that they both have roots in the post Easter Rising incarnation of Sinn Fein. I'll bow to your better knowledge

[@kingofcards9]

@@SiVlog1989 to help you out, both parties are roughly center right though that can be debated and as far as I remember one party was formed after the civil war and the other merged to create the other, Sorry if I came of rude I just wanted to point out John's open bias incase anyone thought his take was unbiased. Thanks

[@SiVlog1989]

@@kingofcards9 water under the bridge, I didn't interpret it as rude, it's all good and appreciated

[@kingofcards9]

@@SiVlog1989 thanks, if only more people could be like you.

[@fedethefico]

Doing an entire video on Sinn Fein's origins without mentioning once the words "colony", "colonial rule", "famines", "mass oppression" is so English. Is this really how fucked up the english education system is? With no clue about the devastating actions and murderous impact the british empire had on colonies and other peoples in general?

[@4FYTfa8EjYHNXjChe8xs7xmC5pNEtz]

So when Sinn Fein condemned the graffiti "Indigenous Lives Matter" written in protest of recent immigrant attacks on Irishmen, I guess they didn't mean that kind of indigenous?

[@e.3-0_m3]

Sinn Fein is a nationalist party that's a joke they are far left now

[@yoloswaggins7121]

Nationalist doesn't necessarily mean right wing. Most nationalist parties are right wing but Sinn Féin is an example of a left wing nationalist party.

[@kevinxu3892]

NI literally having a holiday where unionist locals burn the Irish flag and Sinn Fein politician effigy's Tldr: somehow Irish people feel discriminated against

[@rusticpartyeditz]

The more certain people call for a united ireland, the more excitable the unionists get. There is no actual nationalist discrimination. It's more a show. And Tldr's discrimination point was about NI before the troubles. Things are very different now. To try and equate the two shows a total lack of understanding of how NI has changed since then.

[@kevinxu3892]

@@rusticpartyeditz If you had a holiday in America that consisted of marching in confederate grey and had some "excitable white southerners" burning effigies of Fredrick Douglas or MLK or Obama, pretty sure that any normal American wouldn't consider it "perceived prejudice"

[@TadeuszCantwell]

The percentage support for U.I just being advocated by Sinn Féin in Stormont misses out on support from the SDLP.

[@josephhargrove4319]

I really don't have a dog in this fight; I'm an American of English-Scottish heritage, not an Irish-American blinded by an overly romantic nostalgia for "the old country." From my vantage point on this side of the Atlantic, I still believe the only real, long term solution is unification. I hope to see a non-violent resolution, but Ireland's history does not leave me sanguine about that path. In the long, complex history of England's dominance of the British Isles, their policies and actions regarding Ireland have consistently been wrong-headed, catastrophic failures. The treatment of Northern Ireland during brexit is just the latest chapter in this sad story. It's time all of Ireland removed itself from Great Britains's control. richard -- "I tell you, commander, it’s true that some of the most terrible things in the world are done by people who think, genuinely think, that they’re doing it for the best, especially if there is some god involved." - Felicity Beedle Terry Pratchett. Snuff

[@mijicmugendo]

Ireland is not part of the British isles

[@TheJeremyHolloway]

@@mijicmugendo Geography says it is.

[@mijicmugendo]

@@TheJeremyHolloway No it doesn't. Why di you think British people have a right to name other people's countries? Do do understand also that only the British call the channel the English channel!

[@thegrandmuftiofwakanda]

@@mijicmugendo Ireland is manifestly and demonstrably part of the British Isles you geographically ignorant Southern Bogtrotter.

[@MultiJulien1996]

Isn't the Easter Rising from 1916 ? and not 1906 ?

[@raybo64]

Sinn Féin was active before the 1916 Rising but were very much a fringe organisation. It just became an umbrella for insurrectionists because it was wrongly labeled by the British, see Pathé Newsreels, as Sinn Féin. Sinn Féin actually opposed the 1916 Rising and were definitely NOT looking for Ireland to become a Republic but become a separate State with the Head of State being the same monarch as the Head of State of the UK.

[@MultiJulien1996]

@@raybo64 Yes but that's definitely not my point 😅

[@ronanmeleady]

Yes, it was in 1916.

[@ChrisBeard]

If I were Irish, I would want Ireland to reunify. As it goes, I am English... and want it to reunify. It's down to the Northern Irish to decide. Suspect it will come in the next 5 years or so, just after Scotland goes ;-)

[@aislingmcgeever1923]

Yes but it’s very complicated due to the situation in Northern Ireland, as there are people who want to stay part of the UK and people who want to join the Republic. If we were to reunite, it would be a lengthy process and there would almost certainly be some sort of violence.

[@ChrisBeard]

@@aislingmcgeever1923 I'm sure it would be complex and that their would be 'trouble'. There should be a vote at some point though to lend legitimacy to what ever the decision would be.

[@geroutathat]

Its strange because the protestant community of NI was moved from Scotland to NI by the british govt, planted there. But the Scottish in Scotland want out of UK more than the Scottish that were moved out and put in Ireland. It just shows the ones in Northern Ireland are pretty much acting out of stubbornness rather than practicality. Clinging onto the UK by the fingertips for so long has made them dogged. However the maths says at some point NI will join the Republic. For the last 15 years its just a question of when. In a rounabout way, ignoring the uk for a second. NI back to Ireland would be a lot better for England.

[@lizardlegend42]

Of course we have to remember the #1 priority is maintaining the peace. If that means delaying UI indefinitely, it means delaying UI indefinitely

[@stevenmcalister826]

@@lizardlegend42 No it doesn’t. It’s done by majority consent. If everything had to be halted due to threat of violence then the government wouldn’t last a day.

[@thebestben]

As a Mexican-American, I stand with the Irish and Sinn Fein in their mission to liberate Ireland from British colonialism. We didn’t forget how our Irish brothers came to our aid when the United States invaded our territory.

[@smoley3310]

Hum never knew that, learn something new everyday.

[@thebestben]

@@smoley3310 Yep, google ‘Saint Patrick's Battalion’ it’s a touching story of solidarity among Irish and Mexicans

[@irishpatriotv2575]

@@thebestben got their flag on my wall Brother Erin go bragh

[@davianthule2035]

This comment section is now claimed for the republic of ireland

[@andersbodin1551]

Bend your head to the quin of England, or loose it Traitor!

[@prkp7248]

You now entry free comments

[@Tereyoc]

The Irish parliamentary party wanted home rule at canda Australia level. That is what Gladstone tried to do in the 1870-80s. It was put on the long finger for 50 years and Irish people got pissed off.

[@ckpalmeiras1318]

Bits from Ireland that seem weird were left out - Sinn Féin didn’t just beat the home rule IPP in the 1918 election, they also beat the Irish unionists (thus the partition to create a unionist state has no democratic legitimacy) The support for the treaty (why would you need a treaty with a country you’ve democratically voted out!) was based on the threat of an “immediate and terrible war” as articulated by the British. Once again, why were the British threatening war with a people who had just received a democratic mandate. Basically anything after the 1918 election result, when it was democratically confirmed the majority of people in Ireland chose an independent republic as how the country should be, is the AD and BC. Everything after that becomes about British violence to prevent that result manifesting - thus we had several conflicts, the blocking of a republic until 1949 and the violence British army creation of the north east unionist statelet. Thus justifying the IRA - if a democratic vote can be overturned with violence as supported by the British and unionists, the IRA have and had every right to use that means of policy change. You can’t be a supporter of the existence of NI and also have an issue with the IRA bar them being the other team.

[@dorkangel1076]

They didn't beat the Irish unionists in what would become Northern Ireland though as the graphic showed. If you're going to argue "democracy" then democracy also went with the treaty that created Northern Ireland. The treaty was how you were getting out but a large majority of those living in the top right of the country didn't want out and the treaty was a way of dealing with this. Going against that was also going against democracy. You don't just get to say only this bit counts cause it suits my argument.

[@ckpalmeiras1318]

@@dorkangel1076 there was no such thing as Northern Ireland. Now listen, if you point me to the election you have been involved in where having won the vote comfortably the losing side gets to draw a line around a place where it did well (every single vote ever taken always has regional differences) then we can talk. But I’ll assume you never have been involved in such a vote in your life, so sit down and shut the fuck up. The unionist were absolutely hammered in Ireland, it doesn’t matter that they did well in a region anymore than it mattered that Hillary Clinton won in New York or Trump won in Alabama, neither gets to partition the places they did well in having lost the overall vote. And even if you do think it’s ok, then even then you don’t support Northern Ireland as it exists. Because if a region that lost the overall result, but won in its own area can partition itself, then every single nationalist majority area of Northern Ireland can partition itself out of Northern Ireland and into the Republic. By your own reasoning, Tyrone, Derry, Armagh, Fermanagh and Belfast - all regions with nationalist majorities are 100% entitled to partition themselves out of NI. So either way, no one has a leg to stand on when it comes to Northern Ireland. You either play by the normal rules, and Ireland voted itself out of the UK, or you play by the bizarre local majority trumping the overall majority rules - and then you’re left with a handful of unionist Gibraltars in north eastern Ireland and south Dublin. Oh, and the bizarre treaty (again, why would a place that democratically voted out another country require a treaty with that country!) did not create Northern Ireland. NI was created in 1920, not as a result of the treaty. The treaty was about how the 26 counties would be arranged - eg Britain rejecting the 26 counties becoming a republic (hilariously bizarre once again, why was Britain saying the 26 counties that voted to be an independent republic, couldn’t be an independent republic!)

[@mattpotter8725]

@@ckpalmeiras1318 I understand your points, and with family from the borderlands (what was known as bandit country) of what became Northern Ireland (family from both sides of the divide) I don't think your tone is very helpful at all. I can understand why the IRA took up arms against the British in what became a civil war, but they descended into an almost mafia like terrorist organisation. Targeting the British military was one thing, targeting civilians is another. That doesn't excuse the British military and more so the RUC for some of their actions though either. If became a civil war, there's no other way of describing it, although in England it was never described like this. Ireland would never have been partitioned as it was, it would have been better for it not to be partitioned at all, and I look forward to the day that Ireland is reunified. Having been over to Ireland to see where a large part of my ancestry came from in recent years when you drive across the border from the Republic to the North you really don't notice any difference at all and now it's as though it's all over country. If what you said had come to pass there would still have been huge problems in the Unionist dominated parts of Ulster so what would your solution to the violence that came from that have been? It was caused by the plantation of Ulster centuries ago, by the English, but even with that it will would have been a huge problem for a fledgling state to deal with and just like the IRA, you'd have just got the terrorists we have on the other side today, the UVF and other similar groups, doing exactly the same just without the British being involved, which might have been better, but I doubt it. Anyway, as someone who is proud of my Irish ancestry, from Ulster and from Connaught, I hope that Irish reunification happens in the next 20 years, but the Unionists will need to be given some devolved power I feel if that does happen. I feel the situation is very complex and things are moving in the right direction until Brexit came along. By the way my grandpa, who is 100, was born in Ulster when it was part of the Irish Free State before partition!!!

[@ckpalmeiras1318]

@@mattpotter8725 If the losing side in a vote gets violent that just has to be dealt with. The losing side in the recent abortion referendum full on believes that now the mass slaughter of babies is going to be allowed take place - something far worse than losing a vote over jurisdiction of a patch of land. Yet if they threatened to hurt or kill anyone in areas where they did well in that vote (the west of Ireland) the majority would have to deal with them. That’s how democracy works. Thugs don’t get to win, or shouldn’t. But even further than that, it’s in our interests that unionists become violent having lost the vote. They are richer, older and more middle class. Their numbers are tiny compared to ours and we live on a small island where they’re in reach of all of us. If things had of gone, or do go, without issue following reunification or independence, we’d not be in a position to get revenge or take them off the stolen land they are currently in possession of….but if they did get violent that would be all our Christmas’s come at once. We’d have complete cover to get stuck into them, remove them from west of the Bann and make their lives a misery in the areas east of the Bann where they are in higher concentrations, exactly as they did to our people. Well also be entitled to compulsory purchase any land they hold if they can be proven as acting against the state (property rights are strict in Ireland as in the UK, so you’d never been able to legally remove any unionist from their land unless they commit treason). Remember, it’ll be us swallowing hard to let bygones be bygones, but if they some much as hurt any child after losing a second democratic vote, we’ll have total right internationally to rid the place of them. Also, lots of Ulster is in the republic.

[@dorkangel1076]

@@ckpalmeiras1318 Well the UK have just left the EU based on a UK wide referendum and now a large area in the north of it called Scotland who didn't want to leave the EU are now thinking of leaving the UK. Likewise, the part of the island to the east of GB that is still part of the UK may well decide the same. Just like the area called Northern Ireland didn't want to leave the UK back in 1919. By your argument Scotland and Northern Ireland should both just suck it up because the majority have spoken in the 2016 referendum. As for "hammered", SF only got 20,000 votes more than the parties who didn't want full independence. With 46% of the vote SF ended up with 70% of the seats. Irish Unionists with 25% of the vote ended up with 21% of the seats and IIP with 21% of the vote ended up with only 6% of the seats. So it was as split then as the Uk is now over Brexit.