Why are UK Graduate Wages So Low?

[@bodazephyr6629]

I have a PhD in a STEM subject from a top UK university. I went into academic research and i left after after a few years of low pay (considering the number of years it takes to do a PhD), poor job security, a toxic work environment, 50+ hour week, and high stress. I now work as a HGV driver where I earn around the same for less hours, nicer colleagues, much less stress and far better job security. I would only advise doing a PhD if you are utterly fanatical about the subject.

[@bodazephyr6629]

@@MrNPC physics at undergraduate level and materials science at postgraduate level.

[@andrewhorne808]

​@@bodazephyr6629I have an MSc in chemistry. Left the profession after a few years due to the same reasons you outlined above. I've since retrained as a carpenter in the construction industry. I make more money than I did as a development chemist! It's crazy!

[@gentlehoovy5555]

I actually know someone from uni who had a phd in physics from oxbridge (I always forget which one lol), and realized that research wasn't for them, so moved into environmental science years later. Honestly I respect your (and their) humility for willing to ignore the sunk cost fallacy and big-headedness that would stop most people from choosing what's really right for them

[@andrewwotherspoona5722]

I live in Australia. I will earn more after completing my Master's in Radiography (with 8 hours overtime) than I did 10 years after I completed my PhD in Biochemistry...and without managing anyone or writing research grants...Within three years my radiography qualification will give me the same base salary...as my old chemistry job...but for 38 hours vs 48 hours as a scientist. With O/T close to 50% higher.

[@jasonsheppard1]

AI is coming for HGV drivers

[@Alex-cw3rz]

I think the bigger problem and question is why is that a Biritsh graduate can go to most other western nations and reliably earn double that they earn in the UK. Why are our wages so low.

[@joshryantt]

Finally someone asks the right question.

[@mariog1051]

Which other nations? In Europe maybe Switzerland can compete

[@Omar-kl3xp]

⁠@@mariog1051Switzerland has similar wages as the US ,so they have pretty high wages compared to the UK

[@Fener242]

Which nations are you referring to?

[@gdlfranco]

@@Fener242 Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Finland, Austria even France

[@ragerancher]

Biggest problem with the UK: We have a "do it on the cheap and fleece as much as we can" mentality to EVERYTHING. We don't recognise the value of people outside finance, we don't properly invest in our people or businesses, everything is about trying to do stuff on the cheap, everyone is risk adverse, innovation is trampled and things like maintenance are ignored due to being an "expense" even though the consequences of it are much worse down the line. We have an entire generation at the top whose mentality is to fleece as much from the country as they can now before they retire and it's undermining our entire economy. The country now is being run to funnel ever more wealth into a single generation at the expense of absolutely everyone else. Every metric indicates this, the Boomers are essentially leeching the life out of the economy for their own benefit.

[@bengoacher4455]

You are right to an extent but the over 50s now outnumber the under 50s and it's only going to get worse as people have fewer children. Unfortunately there is nothing we can do living in a democracy, because the over 50s vote wins elections and niether party is prepared to stand up to them. Labour won't touch the triple lock pension for example.

[@baha3alshamari152]

That's what happens in societies with low birth rates as the elderly feel insecure about their remaining years so they suck up as much resources as they can and so will millenials do by 2050 and gen Z by 2065 As birth rates are declining and qualified migrants too we will see more of this phenomena

[@ragerancher]

@@baha3alshamari152 No that's what happens when you have a generation that are bought up having everything handed to them and then refuse to return the favour when they get into power. Boomers were sucking up resources long before birth rates dropped. This same generation have the nerve to turn around and call everyone else selfish when, statistically, they have sucked more from both the generations before and after than any other generation in recorded history. Boomers monopolising positions in government and leadership roles is unprecedented. Even in the old days where a privileged few controlled everything, there still wasn't such a stark generational divide in wealth and power. Oldest millennials are now in their 40's, these aren't kids but adults often with families of their own and many are still stuck on the bottom rung and they still haven't taken over major positions of power because the Boomers have set the whole system up to prevent anyone but them getting hold of it before they die. Boomers still talk about Millennials as if they are teenagers, which shows just how detached they are. There isn't a single Millennial who is a teenager now. In fact the youngest Millennials will be 27.

[@gaarakabuto1]

"FrEnCh StInKy HaHa"

[@madameversiera]

Absolute truth, I see this laziness everywhere around me, they try pay people the lowest amount possible and those people don’t have many skills or passion to do their job. So every business is failing today because the culture is go cheap and never improve.

[@taipizzalord4463]

The entry level job market is completely screwed. Everyone expects you to have 5 years of experience right out of Uni.

[@inbb510]

I mean yh, you think with all the grade inflation (which this video did not cover) that employers won't be forced into looking for new requirements which would make their admissions process more practical and viable. If a company only can offer 2 positions and then there are 8 out of 10 students which have firsts, then you can't expect a company to just filter students based just on their academic performance. Times have changed. That may have worked 20 years ago but certainly not now. You are competing with International students too where some of the brightest and most competent have knowledge of the industry far better than some native English students.

[@stefandjeric4530]

Great observation, so true

[@westay4924]

or go for a lower paying job to gain experience...

[@madameversiera]

Yeah, right? 😂 I have bachelor’s degree in arts and sculpture but they ask for many years experience in working for art galleries. But how can I get experience if no one gives us an opportunity?

[@madameversiera]

@@westay4924even the low paid job is asking for experience 😂

[@getnohappy]

I believe it was the FT that pointed out last week that the UK's issue is it's a low investment economy. Against comparable nations, the UK just doesn't invest in everything from R&D to infrastructure to public service. And like most structural issues, the main issue is 13 years of Tory Austerity, and beyond that 40years of Thatcherism.

[@somecuriosities]

Preach! 🙌

[@andrewzebic6201]

The issue is correct but the blame is incorrect. This lack of investment has existed since the 1900s. There is a book called The Audit of War which discusses the lag of UK productivity, and one factor always present was a lack of infrastructure investment

[@getnohappy]

@@andrewzebic6201 I get your point, but will playfully add that, thanks to their ability to avoid an actual revolution, the same people in charge then are in charge now ^^

[@novalinnhe]

This is a great insight!

[@dustinDraig]

Counterpoint: HS2--the billion pound boondoggle to nowhere.

[@bunnylove2212]

ALL jobs in the UK are way underpaid. I am from the States and lived in London for 7 years: this was a trend that I found EVERYWHERE. I finally left in 2016 right when they said yes to Brexit. Seems to have gotten worse each year since.

[@mauricioventura1901]

I’ve been in Scotland for 2 years and am running back to the USA after I finish my masters. Entry level jobs in the US pay double what you’d make in the UK expecting 3-5 years experience.

[@dannythwaites1318]

I'll never forgive the school system in the UK for pushing me into university rather than skilled labour appreticeships

[@Ronnet]

The UK economy is extremely unbalanced. Not too long ago I read an article that broke down the UK economy regionally and compared those regions to other regions in Europe. It was surprising to see that with the exception of London almost all regions are doing worse than most eastern European regions. You're better off in anywhere in Poland than in the UK unless you have a sweet job in London. Most areas in Hungary are also an improvement over life in the UK. Only region objectively worse is white Russia.

[@mariog1051]

I would be very interested in reading that article if you shared it

[@zuzanazuscinova5209]

I believe it. At least the housing quality in EE is often higher. Concrete buildings with insulation.

[@guss77]

It would have been interesting to see the breakdown of STEM degrees vs. non-STEM in the UK vs. US and other countries.

[@JohnJones-k9d]

As a ceo of a manufacturing company, we need engineers which we cannot recruit especially those who are based on manufacturing.

[@Phoen1xGen]

I mean everyone I know in my school (at least decent friends) want a job in STEM. I am pretty nerdy though so don’t take my words as facts.

[@orianaanthony6395]

absolutely

[@blubbb4143]

@@JohnJones-k9d as someone else in manufacturing (although not CEO level) I can second this. We also cannot get new grads my role in particular recruits physics grads not only where these shortage anyway now so many WFH jobs available none of them want to come work in the office/factory can't blame them for that.

[@garethking5322]

Even then it depends. Say for Biology etc wages are low, but non stem subjects like law, economics, and geography ( believe it or not) have high wage premiums.

[@chrisg5433]

I am a Computer Science and Mathematics graduate. In my field of Software Engineering it is absolutely possible to learn everything you need to do most software development jobs through self learning these days. My personal feeling is that studying at university will give you a deeper understanding and wider field of knowledge than you would gain through self study. I think the decision to attend a university should be based on a hunger for knowledge rather than as a get rich quick scheme. One thing I can reinforce though, is that it is extremely difficult for junior software developers(both with a degree and without) with little or no experience to get employment. This is mainly because of the high numbers of people applying for these entry level positions and employers have be sure that they are hiring people who have the actual talent necessary to do the job. Even having a degree does not necessarily give employers confidence that a candidate can perform the task that is required .The high demand is for experienced software developers with demonstrable skills regardless of having a degree or not.

[@gdwe1831]

Self taught dev with 10 years in industry, agree with everything you have said.

[@Hathur]

99% of people cannot afford the idealism of studying for the sake of expanding knowledge. 99% of us live in the real world, with bills to pay, families to feed, etc. Only the wealthy or utterly naive study for idealistic reason - the realists study what will get them a good paying job to secure an actual future and avoid poverty. Right now, the "smart" people are learning trade skills, not going to university. There's no demand for software engineers. There is astronomical demand for electricians, carpenters, sheet metal workers, plumbers, mechanics etc.

[@icharlie9812]

Also a Comp sci grad! After almost 5+ years in the industry, I have never been asked about my degree in any interviews etc. Its all about what you can demonstrate you've before and how that relates to what they need from you in the role. The only real benefits I have been able to identify is the connections I made there. My group of course mates stayed in contact and frequently help each other with skill gaps and job referals. Besides from that, I could have easily achived the same result with a semi-decent portfolio of projects in a githiub repo....

[@peak_911]

CS/IT are the only field which you can enter on your own without a degree, core branches well you have to be in the top college for a secure future.

[@strongback6550]

Depends on university really

[@Ianmundo]

The UK used to have apprenticeships where companies hired and trained young people. This system declined and successive governments encouraged young people into University. Then the Tory/Lib Dem coalition ruined universities by uncapping fees, we got a system where it was hugely expensive to get a degree and there was little benefit. Fixing this could have been as simple as tax incentives to companies who hire and retain graduates but we know by now, Tories don’t govern, they only line their own pockets.

[@ScottishRoss27]

Scotland is beating the UK in the proportion of apprenticeships in the workforce. Scotland 3,4% UK as a whole 2,8%

[@silentpro54]

Still have apprenticeships where I work but they don't take on nearly enough and they pay and treat them so poorly most move on once they have qualifications and experience...

[@randomcow505]

@@silentpro54this happened everywhere, machine shops are such a good example Traditionally you would take on apprentices and train them up, in return they would help you out for a cut of the pay The old guys last generation realised that they could make a lot more money and have a lot less competition if they just simply never took on apprentices and when they did treat them like shit and thought them nothing , they then realised they couldn’t do that for ever and tried but no one wanted to apprentice under them, and so they started to retire with one one to take over

[@Manx123]

" Fixing this could have been as simple as tax incentives to companies who hire and retain graduates" Jesus Christ, you're delusional. That's not simple at all. Make the incentive too low, and it won't have an effect. Make the incentive too high, and you decrease excessively tax receipts, or you would have to raise taxes in others areas.

[@rocksoliddude1]

All you have now is people with work experience going from one job to another endlessly, so employers aren't willing to train people in good jobs.

[@CharlieHuang]

The problem is the expectation that you should go to uni straight after college or sixth form. You should only go if you really want/need to, otherwise you could easily waste time and money. Delaying your decision until later can save a lot of frustration.

[@tomphillips5513]

Amazing comment! I’m clearly biased as someone that went to uni at 19 (only to drop out) and again at 25. I’m only a few months from finishing my final year now (age 27) and I can safely say that the difference in my approach to university was due to what I learned in those years between 19 and 25; what I want, what I don’t want, how hard I’m willing to work, etc. Id recommend more teens to put it off for a few years and experience the job market. Then they will have a clear idea of what is available without a degree, and what a relevant degree can obtain.

[@BanterRanterr]

It's a mess... Wages,Unregulated private rents, rates of insurance acces to dentist everyday we are closer and closer to failed USA model 🤷‍♂️😑

[@aeriumfour6096]

Are you joking? We have socialist housing, unemployment, and healthcare systems. We're also one of the most regulated countries on Earth. We're not exactly a free market.

[@me0101001000]

The Reagan-Thatcher model only works well for those who are already wealthy. Both the US and UK are long overdue for political reform.

[@ORO323]

Having one degree (undergrad) is no longer enough. You either have to go further and get a masters, phd, etc OR you need to have connections to land you a job that pays well.

[@Makalon102]

At least in USA the salaries are a lot higher and income tax and vat is a lot lower so your at least rewarded

[@aeriumfour6096]

@@me0101001000 Well that's just a lie, everyone was doing poorly under Thatcher due to the recession. We had 25% inflation for Christ sake.

[@sayno2lolzisback]

I am 31 years old and feel absolutely conned by the system. My whole life university was this carrot on the stick, the ultimate goal and key to success in life. Now I have over 50,000 pounds in student debt and no intention of ever working in the field I studied in. I now work as an IT admin earning very little. Sure it's my fault, but can you deny I had been completely misguided and misled? I did what I thought and had been told was the right thing to do, I had no idea it would be like this.

[@Abdullah_the_Palestinian]

Same. My business degree has destroyed me. I was too young and ignorant back then. No one taught me about the labor market.

[@Tessy29k]

​@@Abdullah_the_Palestinian my masters degree in International business changed my life. Did you get enough adequate experience before and during your course?

[@Abdullah_the_Palestinian]

@@Tessy29k I worked for almost 2 years as an HR intern while doing university. It still amounted to nothing.

[@Alex-fm5ke]

The problem is just wages in the U.K. haven’t kept up with inflation since 2008. There is plenty of money in the U.K. economy it’s just more concentrated at the top

[@inbb510]

The problem with the UK just like Europe is that we are far less innovative and adaptable when it comes to technological adoption and creativity. For example, it is a dirty secret that our railway institutions are heavily overstaffed. My dad's friend works in the industry and let me tell you, the amount of people who doss around and just chit-chat with their mates while other people dig the ground and work on the tracks is shockingly too commonplace. There are new technologies out there such as driverless trains and newer technologies when it comes to railway works and ticketing but the unions have opposed any modernisation reforms that would bring the railways back to the 21st century. Even though these modernisations would require far less human resources to manage the improvement works on our railway networks, reducing labour costs and therefore reducing the cost of operating our railways. Another reason is that there is a severe over supply of humanities degrees that are award to student who don't even have a foundational grasp of maths/statistics or emerging technologies in the STEM field. Combine this fact that the UK is one of the few countries where students can quit learning maths just after they turn 16 and the bigger presence of automation due to rapid advances in AI (as labour costs are getting just way too expensive in Europe overall), it is no wonder that the UK and Europe are really starting to fall behind the USA in terms of wage growth and productivity.

[@KingXennodia]

Objectively false but ok

[@zuzanazuscinova5209]

​@@inbb510yep

[@Natta44]

​@@inbb510You know alot of people are just not prone to STEM subjects. Their minds do not understand and function in a technical way. People who take creative degrees on average get less pay. But if the UK actually invested in more creative industries, there wouldn't be this problem of too many bio scientists or accountants.

[@inbb510]

@@Natta44 well there is going to be a point where Government will have to invest more into STEM subjects as manual labour is slowly becoming automated. Redundancies are just part and parcel of technological innovation. History shows that you can't stop innovation. Trying to fight technological advancement is a futile endeavour as eventually, a nation who does will lose out on economic growth and opportunities. With Generative AI starting to be commonplace since the beginning of this decade, it is now becoming possible to generate things like music or pictures without needing to hire a composer or a musician. You only have to look at advances in DALLE neural networks and advances in Unsupervised Machine Learning. Not saying that there won't be any more artists or musicians (digital pixel artists are now thriving as a future market) but it will be a more refined and concentrated group of people.

[@sallangel]

After I left University I moved back in with my parents. The city I was living in was going through a time of high youth (18-25) unemployment, with our 25% of people in that age bracket out of work. I applied for job after job, with no luck. While searching, I volunteered in a charity head office which was my first real work experience. Using a grant, the charity were then able to pay me to work part time for 6 months. Looking back, I earned hardly anything, but we all have to start work somewhere. It's not all about having/not having a degree - where you live changes your opportunities massively.

[@Jia-Tan]

As a computer science grad, I can get a special visa to go and work in the US - where i'd be paid at least double than in London if not more, with many areas also having a lower cost of living. Many areas in Europe also pay more. So unless STEM graduate wages rise, we'll probably see a big brain drain in these subjects EVEN IF we can encourage more young people to study STEM.

[@Makalon102]

What special visa are you referring to

[@Clone683]

The difference between UK and US pay really is crazy. I''ve seen Americans get $100k+ for jobs Brits get paid £40k for

[@romewillriseagain]

@@Makalon102 he's just talking about a normal work visa. if you can get a US company to hire you from the UK, they can sponsor a work visa for you and you get to live and work in the US. For most workers this is a very long and tedious process but a STEM worker with enough experience and a decent resume can do it pretty easily. For the average person both inside and outside of STEM fields, this is very difficult to do though. Competition is quite high.

[@eldrago19]

The mismanagement of our technology sector over the last 15 years has been appalling.

[@blazzz13]

@@Clone683 I would also add Canada into the mix. My sister is a Junior Pharmacist in Canada and she's on 6 figures already 2 years after graduation. Here in Britain her peers are barely scraping above £30k and Senior managers are on £50k which is still less than what she's on after you convert to CAD. I have realised in my working life that people in this country don't earn very much, which is maybe why we don't own anything. Most people are leveraged by debt.

[@floweringnight-lord3008]

From my experience, university was definitely NOT worth it. After university, I tried to look for a job that utilizes my degree (BSc Mat. Engineering) and the majority of those jobs required several years of work experience which is practically impossible if you fully devoted your time to education. I now am working as a Railway Operative after just several weeks of training. Much more happier now then back at university

[@SDOslo]

I've had a very similar experience with a Mathematics BSc degree too :/

[@teemumiettinen7250]

@sdrawkcabUK Yes, unless you have connections and know people, its very hard to find a job. Its not what you know, its who you know.

[@jeffrey7890]

Mate, with your degree. You are in the best place. Construction needs Design Engineers (could transfer your current degree) get some experience on the tools and do some on site Engineering and you'll be set for life

[@PostingCringeOnMain]

Give it a few years and as you work for longer and move up the progression ladder you'll realise that unqualified people get vastly overlooked for promotion. Perhaps it feels like cold comfort now, but a degree doesn't pay off immediately and should be regarded as more of an investment for the future. I know it defies the logic of going to uni to go straight into a well paying job, but in all reality that very rarely happens. You also can't discount netorking and forging your path into your chosen career, you may need to get relevant experience adjacent to your desired job before moving into it directly - transferrable skills *are* a thing. You should probably adjust your mentality to "university doesnt feel worth it right now" but when you're 10 years into employment and are being pushed to take on bigger roles by your colleagues and managers, the combination of your education, skills and experience will feel worth it.

[@silentpro54]

I did a MEng in Mat Sci and Eng and there was next to nothing in the way of grad schemes at the end of it. Ended up moving back home and got a crappy R&D tech role. Managed to get into a related job somewhere else after a year of looking but that was mostly because the guy hiring knew my manager from where I did my placement! Even then pay was piss poor. Working on helicopters now and pay is decent, you have to take a lot of crap before things get good, if they ever do!

[@AugustDH]

I’m really shocked at how low Software Engineering salaries can be in the UK. Sub 100k salaries with senior level of experience + top uni education and while working at top firms. Meanwhile, their counterparts in the U.S with less experience are at north of 150k base at top firms.

[@kokoteofilov9486]

First Class Economics graduate from a Russell Group University here. On a personal level my degree was useful as it taught me a certain framework of thinking as well as practical skills such as understanding and scrutinizing research and data. I tried to get a job in the field and was unsuccessful, the whole process was so impersonal and it just felt like companies were after robots to accomplish extremely simple and easy tasks with not much initiative. This culture really put me off and with salaries around £20-25k there was little to motivate me to pursue that further. I built my own career as a TV professional (Camera Operator). It's got its ups and downs, but I am freelance, I get paid when I work, and I don't when I don't which in my views is fair. I'll see where life takes me next but I do think in many cases university education can be overrated and quite inefficient when it comes to the balance between knowledge and skills acquired and time spent.

[@leah38521]

Wow being a Camera operator is so different to a role in Economics, I’m guessing TV/film is something you’re passionate about. Also if you ever want to go down the Econ field again, you could always do the civil service assistant economist scheme

[@angelachanelhuang1651]

ok

[@missss318]

how did you make the switch from economics to tv?

[@mindmax3579]

Do you have a master's in economics? Usually, it's easier to get into economics with a postgrad they say. Although you will essentially be another robot until you get into the more senior roles. PhDs tend to be preferred. When expressing a professional opinion, you might be swayed by the politics though.

[@iman1005]

what uni did you go to?

[@dragosbecheru839]

I find it absurd that elected officials is many countries around the world think that the same young people attracted to humanities' university degrees can be flipped to go into technical education/technical jobs. Someone who wants to become a writer is not going to quit the dream to become a plumber. Or if they don't have a choice, it just means that they will become a likely ineffective and unmotivated plumber. It's about demographic structure and people making their choices. Providing adequate jobs is where government policies should happen, not in deterring people from following higher education aspirations in humanities.

[@MichaelFlatman]

Providing jobs in humanities subjects isn't an easy task

[@patriciaszabo8015]

​@@MichaelFlatman Ask the tldr team why they choosed the media.

[@ashg9023]

Don't have enough STEM grads but STEM jobs in the UK for the most part pay terribly.

[@CandyKoRn]

The pay is so bad, it's crazy how little we pay people who are doing genuinely challenging and highly skilled jobs. It's so distorted.

[@KNIGHTSTEMPLAR13]

@@CandyKoRn We pay footballers £1 Million a month to kick a bag of air around a field yet we pay Frefighters,Military and Medics buttons who put there life on the line everyday the UK is ABSOLUTELY FCCKED

[@christabel2651]

!!

[@OfficialDotaPlayer]

I will comment on my personal experience. I just graduated with a masters degree in finance with distinction from a top 10 university in UK. 4 years of experience with both acca and cfa level 1. I am a European citizen. Literally 97-98% of the students from my class returned back home. Almost noone is willing to provide a sponsored job due to the visa issue. Straight up rejection. I am one of the few lucky one that got into the Civil services business.

[@SaintGerbilUK]

"I am a European citizen" No sense of community or respect to the country who gave you your education? This is exactly why we should take fewer foreign students, they are just looking to extract from the system.

[@Azmodaeus49]

That is shocking 😮

[@hotsaucebeliever]

The UKs immigration system is expensive to both businesses and applicants. When they got rid of free movement they basically gave Europe the same issues non-EEA applicants had minus the European job market test that prevented direct hires (as in not grads from UK unis) from outside the EEA.

[@seiwarriors]

Did you this post on Reddit too

[@SaintGerbilUK]

@@hotsaucebeliever good. We should double it, we still have plenty of applicants.

[@lilysowden4035]

My personal experience - I graduated this year with a Computer Science degree from Oxford. You'd think that would be pretty in demand but 3 months of job searching later and I haven't found anything, even applying for jobs that offer £25k salaries. With the number of people who get into tech self-taught I am definitely wondering whether it was a waste of time to do my degree...

[@lewisjackson2185]

I also graduated this year with a degree in physics but had a very different experience. You should be getting snapped up super quickly. Have you been practising and passing all the preinterview stages?

[@Nightzo]

If you're looking to get into software development you need to have a portfolio of projects that employers can see and interact with

[@lewisjackson2185]

@@Nightzo Not necessarily as a graduate

[@revilo3515]

Same boat different degree, looking at Linkedin job listings and seeing a job posted 3 days ago havung 500 applicants is so demoralising

[@posh7079]

immigrate ASAP. This country is going downhill.

[@szymondworski8665]

Currently in my last year in my PhD in Aerospace Engineering and I have now had experience of teaching undergraduate students (and also the experience of my own undergrad) and I have to say undergraduate degrees, at least in engineering, dont prepare you much for the real world or do much other than teach you some knowledge maybe some skills. The pay in the UK for both industry and academia (that is postdoctoral student and lecturing) are absolutely abysmal compared to the entry level requirements. Academic pay is basically a joke in this country compared to, for example, the US and I would not at all (neither would most of my peers) consider academia in the UK.

[@alistaircampbell7061]

Going to university for a degree is like 50% of the reason, the other 50% of the time people are networking. Because the fundamental problem with the British (and Irish) job market is that it’s who you know… not what you know. It’s why the NHS has failed, too many managers given jobs they weren’t suitable for. The term jobs for the boys comes to mind. It’s utterly plaguing the public sector and parts of the private sector. The public sector is so toxic to work for you could be educated to the highest level, but because you’re not a niece or nephew, brother or sister, son or daughter of a manager… then you’re utterly screwed. Also, wages across the board in the UK have been stagnant because of greedy corporations.

[@eldrago19]

Thanks for covering this. It is far from the only issue, but the number of people going 'all degrees are valid' and 'there's no such thing as a Micky Mouse degree' while completely ignoring skills shortages is frustrating.

[@SaintGerbilUK]

Further to this why do the tax payers fund education for jobs which does not exist or have no demand for them?

[@lilygaming_]

It's an issue with grad degrees as a whole not just "Micky mouse" ones. I have a STEM degree but to start you are on a 25k joke salary. People with skills and ambition just leave under these conditions affecting the wider economy and worsening the skills gap. Pushing everyone into STEM makes this problem worse not better

[@SaintGerbilUK]

@@lilygaming_ Sure and thats my point, a STEM degree commonly includes a computer sciences degress for people who want to be a professional software developer. Really most of what you learn in a computer science degree is how a compliler works and how to create one. The problem is that there are about a dozen popular programming langauges and less than 100 since the 1970's so every computer science degree spends a lot of time on something lets say 10,000 people have worked on over 50 years. In short: even perceved valuble degrees spend a lot of time on useless content.

[@davidboat8467]

There isn’t though, you can use most degrees to get into “graduate level” jobs. Its wrong to state otherwise, most jobs I went for weren’t too asked about what exactly I studied at university…just that I went.

[@SaintGerbilUK]

@@davidboat8467 yeah the secret is that you can apply for many of those jobs without a degree but a few years of experience instead and you'll earn as much and not have the debt to pay off. Obviously excluding some professions such as lawyers and doctors, but many things in STEM you can absolutely get into without a degree.

[@monkeymox2544]

It depends how you look at it. In my mid-20s I left my full-time job and went to uni to study Philosophy and Sociology, then went on to do a research masters, and I loved it. Education can be enriching and rewarding in itself, it doesn't have to lead to a job at the end. In that sense, it is as 'worth it' as you feel it is. In fact, I deliberately chose to study a subject I thought I'd enjoy, because I knew so many people who had gone to university with a specific career in mind and come out the other end absolutely hating it, or quickly changing careers. Mainly people in the sciences, actually. As it happens, I do think my degree taught me transferable skills. But that is entirely secondary. As a society, we need to get away from the idea that the only point in education is to create workers. Education should also create enriched individuals, and engaged citizens. And yes, higher education should be free, no matter how 'useful' it is to employers. Having an educated, enriched and engaged population is useful in its own right.

[@34口2fds蛋トマgs]

If only your degree can make you realise how useless your comment is, and how out of touch you are.

[@NorthDownReader]

"Education can be enriching and rewarding in itself, it doesn't have to lead to a job at the end. " In which case, does it need an exam? Does it need to be full time?

[@monkeymox2544]

@@NorthDownReader I would say that if you receive a formal education, you should be awarded with something that demonstrates your competence. That may or may not require an exam. Part of why formal education is rewarding is precisely because you receive an indication of your competence in the form of a grade. Education doesn't have to be full time, but we don't exactly live in a society that makes flexible study easy. Most people can't afford to work part time, anyway. Personally, I think the idea that we get educated for the first portion of our lives, work in the middle and (provided we don't die) get to retire at the end is outdated and ludicrous. It would be great if people could in general keep their formal education going throughout their lives, mixing in a few sabbaticals here and there. Unfortunately though, that is for a privileged few.

[@mrmeldrew693]

'Enriched'.....I'd prefer having money for housing and food over being interesting at dinner parties!

[@monkeymox2544]

@@mrmeldrew693 well yes I'm not saying people shouldn't work >< what I am saying is that education is good in itself

[@Chem0_oPoet]

Great video, thank you! Glad to have the team back on the top of their game! I am seriously considering moving abroad for better work as a STEM graduate. Your content helps me a lot to learn about the realities of life in the UK and EU, and the background workings of their political and societal landscape.

[@Hathur]

Everyone in my family and extended family under 30 that is making a good living took trade skills, not university education. Every young person in our family that studied in university is making dismal wages. There's no demand for high level education workers - but there is a desperate need for technical skills (plumbers, electricians, carpenters, sheet metal workers etc). Technical skills are what get young people paid these days, not higher education.

[@inesaudievre-ward7034]

What if a student doesn’t want to get into a STEM career? It scares me that the Tories are forcing young people into subjects they may not want to do and will be stuck in a career they hate for the rest of their lives.

[@posh7079]

@@inesaudievre-ward7034 no one is forcing you, you are free to study gender studies or intersectional science or whatever bs you want,but dont start crying when you are broke and homeless.

[@mrmeldrew693]

Yep. I'll encourage my kids into a trade and buy them vans/tools etc over just pointlessly dumping £50,000 into a 'sports science' type degree.

[@Hathur]

@@inesaudievre-ward7034You've just described over 90% of the human work force globally. Most people don't have the luxury of doing work they love, they do the work they can for the best wages they can get. I wanted to be a journalist, I studied for it even in college and got my diploma with honors. Then the reality of the world punched me in the face, laughed and said "Hah! There's no work or money in that, you'll starve and never feed your family" and after 6 years of trying to make a liveable wage, I gave up and took up a trade in my late 20's where I make a little over 4x what I was as a journalist. I hate my job frankly, like most people - but I and 90% of people don't have the luxury of doing work we love. That is a fantasy for most people. Being realistic and practical ensures there is a good roof over our heads, food on the table and some financial security for hard times.

[@jimpaddy79]

@@posh7079why do you should so anger and bitter?

[@B3ansGuy]

I moved to the UK for uni to do engineering and unless you get into a big company, a lot of the starter salaries are jokes. You can earn more in London but that doesn't really offset the cost of living tax London incurs. Even now, for my level of experience finding a good paying job in the UK involves jumping through a lot more hoops since a lot want accreditation. Here in NL wages aren't fantastic but at least they don't ask for 5 years experience and chartership for a 35-40k salary. Don't see myself going back

[@silentpro54]

I mean, I don't have either of those things (just an MEng and 3 yrs relevant xp) and I'm earning more than that in UK engineering...

[@randomcow505]

Take a look at hongkong, that’s where I’m going, the wages are better, cost of living is lower, and post Covid there are a ton of open positions waiting to be filled If your specialisation is wanted there the government will help you getting settled in too And if your willing to travel 50mins to work rent is on par with uk city’s

[@kermito3659]

welcome to why I work in construction management. I was earning more than that with less than a years experience

[@lunarscopearie7411]

My student debt is at £76,000, i left university less than 6 months ago. I studied Biology and got a 1st but I have struggled immensely trying to find a job let alone a well paying graduate job, with the majority of offers being between £19-23k a year.

[@inbb510]

I wouldn't worry about the £76,000. I have about that much too but it does not affect your credit score. One thing you could consider is certifying yourself in things in coding and data analysis.

[@thegrinderman1090]

I was in a similar position a few years ago, and ended up working in an unrelated field. A few friends who did go into lab work had some rocky years of being badly paid, but after gaining a bit of industry experience, there are lots of opportunities to move into better paid and more comfortable roles. If you can stick it out, take any potential on-the-job training, and apply for something better every year or 2, you'll soon be well set up for the rest of your working life. Personally I wasn't prepared to do what is essentially an unskilled production line job in a lab coat for minimum wage, after spending years getting a science degree. It does feel insulting. Though like the other reply says, you don't really have to worry about student debt.

[@silentpro54]

Wow, I see that outside of the few grad scheme jobs that are thrown out every year pay at the bottom hasn't gone anywhere since I graduated 6 years ago...

[@posh7079]

yeah because biology is a notoriously useless and crappy degree

[@phillipspassmore]

I left uni with 21k worth of debt and a decade later i have 21k worth of debt... thanks to interest rates pushing the amount up at about the same I'm slowly paying back. Crazy really the student debt situation

[@danhunt3327]

I may be an outlier here but as a young person I feel university was definitely worth it for me. I did an MMath degree and had lots of opportunities come my way straight out of uni that I wouldn't have been able to get without a degree. My degree has already helped by earning potential before considering the snowball effect throughout a career. That's before considering the personal and social experience of university as well.

[@Blue-ow3ns]

that might be true for you but the problem these days is schools colleges and 6th forms all encourage the wrong candidates to go uni. you need to be clever and self driven to succeed at uni but they try and persuade dumb and lazy candidates to go uni so that the school/college/6th form gets better stats and funding. I’d recommend an apprenticeship to any of these people as you end up with no debt, get a qualification, job experience and an actual job and salary at the end of it. no brainer

[@oldskoolmusicnostalgia]

You might simply be a very skilled candidate who shines because of your own qualities and skills, but are wrongly attributing that to attending university. A line of thought which decades of aggressive advertising has sadly encouraged: the idea that the degree/university makes the person rather than individual qualities.

[@Gungus-v1g]

Yeah but that's MMath. Not Bsc Ancient Egyptian Pottery.

[@-ManLikeWills]

@@Gungus-v1g😂😂😂😂

[@bushcrap2019]

@@oldskoolmusicnostalgia Can confirm my University did jack shot other than providing a venue for social opportunities.

[@MartynThomas1]

The "Graduate Wage Premium" might be useful to social scientists and media outlets like TLDR but it's next to useless to parents. One of my children had an offer to study Psychology at an OK uni. She turned it down and got a job in IT/Telecoms. Now she's thinking about maybe doing a Comp.Sci. degree but that will probably require a Foundation Year. That would cost 4 years lost earnings (£100k), fees (£37k) and living expenses (£10k-40k). Alternatively she could do and HNC/HND with fees of £5k/£10k rather than £38k and only 2 years not earning. She has the talent to go to uni - she was offered a place, but chose not to. It's difficult for me to recommend that £100k lost income, £37k fees + interest, £10-40k living expenses, will ever be recovered by having a degree rather than having 4 years work experience.

[@rkidben42069]

I have a STEM degree and a graduate job but my salary is shockingly low. People above me with PhDs aren't doing much better. The difference in wage premium between STEM and humanities is smaller than the difference between the lowest paid STEM graduates and the highest paid STEM graduates. For example, bioinformatitions earn £40,000-£50,000 whereas scientists where I work earn ~26,000

[@TragicHeroine-kd6uy]

Where I live you’ll be lucky to get a graduate stem related job above £22k…

[@epic1053]

@@TragicHeroine-kd6uy I work as a process chemist and make £48k there are high paid stem degrees out there but they're few and far between if you're willing to travel/relocate you'll find one easy. Some production based science jobs pay well esp if they have nights/weekend shifts.

[@CandyKoRn]

Chemist I here on 25k - it seems if you want decent pay you shouldn't be a scientist. Then people wonder why this country is such a giant dump hole...

[@BritishEaling7]

The UK should be very careful not to reverse the trend completely... It is great to have more STEM graduates but I have lived this situation in Spain in early 2000s and still today and the result is the same as the one exposed in the video. In Spain, society encourages you to study engineering or science, but then there are so many engineers that the salaries are very low and the economy does not have enough jobs for so many of them. The UK economy is based on services, industry and manufacturing are in constant decline (obviously depends on the sector, but in general). If suddenly all UK grads are engineers and scientists, what are they going to do when they graduate? What the government should do is to encourage people to re-skill or transfer skills across to other career paths. People should study what they want and like not what society wants them to study. If you need technical skills, but you studied humanities or social sciences, how do you get them without going to uni and getting more debt? A degree should not be a tag that you carry all your life, in today's world you have to be constantly learning and keeping your knowledge relevant to the job market and the skills required to succeed.

[@kermito3659]

similar situation here, that is why so many people with engineering degrees end up working in some form of management

[@RMatt2016]

Didn't know Spain was like India lol

[@kermito3659]

England, not Spain. I am talking Engineering. People claim there is a shortage of engineers in this country, but what they forget to mention is there is a shortage of "competent" engineers. Universities keep churning out imbeciles with masters degrees, and the competent ones go into construction management.@@RMatt2016

[@beanoboy62]

My best mate became an apprentice, he just finished his qualifications and is now earning 55k a year with zero debt. My debt stricken ass 😔

[@dekmackie]

I'm studying for a BSc I cybersecurity - debt free - man I love Scotland 😊

[@beanoboy62]

@@dekmackie god damn Barnett formula

[@dekmackie]

@@beanoboy62 na, just our taxes going back into the country for the folk here, instead of tory boy pockets

[@neptune1525]

@@dekmackie Same situation for me in Russia! 😊 (Except my wage is miserable 💀)

[@R53Hole]

Apprentice what?

[@missm10]

it's not worth getting graduate jobs in the UK anymore due to the low wages and poor working conditions, alongside how awful this country is in general. to any graduates reading this, you're better off seeking jobs abroad.

[@AmirSatt]

where abroad? Isn't UK a western country where people from all over the world seek jobs? The only remaining country is US

[@Carnax6969]

Not to mention many graduate job post still mention a minimum experience of (Insert whatever) for multiple years, and I'm referring to working experience not knowledge or understanding.

[@inbb510]

​@@Carnax6969 but that's because everybody holds degrees now so companies are forced to input new filters to get the best candidates. Sure this video said that too many people going to university is not the problems but companies just don't spring out of a vacuum. If 9 out of 10 applicants have a first degree then your first class degree is not going to hold much value. If there are only 2 spaces for the job then companies have to look beyond your degree credentials to make the application process viable.

[@cliffsofmoher4220]

That can no longer be done due to brexit. British can no longer work abroad because of brexit

[@krisbradbury5087]

I graduated in 2008 and not used it for a single day ever since! I remember while at university we went to a computing industry jobs show and they were very clear that we were wasting our time and money. I don’t put the letters after my name and I don’t have my certificate on my wall and it’s a single line in my CV. When the 4 year course started there was over 100 of us. 6 of us graduated, rest moved on or dropped out. What I think needs to happen is the top 100 companies and public organisations declare which skills they demand the most. Doctors, engineers etc and the government and universities publish the courses that best align with demand and have heavy reduced or even free full courses for these degrees. With a guarantee of job placements at the end as a junior for people to earn and work their way up.

[@RichWithTech]

The issue is there isn't the demand in the UK for almost any job. I know this because of the pay offered and the experience required, aka supply and demand (or lack of). The UK is on a downwards trajectory at every level I can think of. I don't think this will change anytime soon. Actually I think the UK is finished... leave whilst you can

[@Clone683]

Degrees are no longer the golden ticket they used to be because everyone and their grandma has one now. Its gotten to the point where people are doing Masters degrees to try and stand out

[@DerToasti]

yeah masters and phds at more expensive more prestigious unis. also means their grades in school have to increase just to be accepted into those unis in the first place. we're grinding our smartest youth to a pulp.

[@Tessy29k]

I agree my bachelors was worthless but my Masters degree shot me to a much higher level

[@Iwaslemon87]

Science teacher here. Earning less than national average salary. Any local STEM jobs usually mean a pay drop too, and attempting to get a masters probably wouldn’t pay sufficient dividends these days simply due to the burden of further student debt on top of all the other cost of living factors to continue

[@revilo3515]

I think something that alot of people are missing is that in the uk, graduate positions have a huge pool of applicants. There simply arent enough jobs for thr amount of grads

[@zuzanazuscinova5209]

Exactly. The economy overall is stagnant.

[@britishninja]

Game dev experience here. Brain drain is a massive issue because for 18 years or so you are raised benefiting from "the state" such as health care, roads education, but when we are employed and ready to contribute back into that system in taxes, we look to our left and see Americans making double , sometimes triple and move .... So now America gets trained well educated adults that can contribute back into the economy right away, just because the UK failed to pay its trained workers a living wage.

[@SaintGerbilUK]

Where as many universities focus on the foreign students, since they are worth more money to them. The inevitably go back home afterwards and we lose a talented person to work for the country and pay taxes and make a home here.

[@ulrichleukam1068]

@@SaintGerbilUK The foreign students mostly pay their own fees and expenses and are not subsidized by the Gov ... so they have no obligation to stay if they could earn more elsewhere

[@SaintGerbilUK]

@@ulrichleukam1068 that's true yet they do, and by bringing their families and extended families they set down roots which ties them to the country.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

I don't think too many people having humanities degrees is the problem the problem is why is it that compared to other nations we have a lack of humanities jobs and why is it that the humanities jobs we do have and the STEM jobs we have pay so little compared to other nations. Where you can very reliably be payed double for exactly the same amount of work.

[@elgranto9873]

Finishing up 4th year uni in accounting and this issue caused me to look for graduate roles in the US and the pay comparison is staggering, luckily got a job lined up over there due to having dual citizenship, but the UK has too much competition in the accounting sector that its extremely difficult to get a graduate job without going through intense interview processes and having X number of years of experience just to work a low wage job.

[@mollyoirsghois]

This is not a universal experience, the big4 are struggling to fill graduate roles as less people want to go into accounting than before.

[@mrmeldrew693]

You don't need to go to university for accounting. Easy to study for independently.

[@randomguy4116]

Having US citizenship, you are one of the luckiest. US wages soar in comparison to other western countries, including Canada

[@elgranto9873]

@@mrmeldrew693 Sadly found that out too late 😅

[@ReeRee_Donita]

I’m considering doing my masters in the US and I figured that it might be an easier avenue to get into a well paid job after graduation there. The U.K. just isn’t it.

[@nathanerrington7983]

It's worth noting that the share of STEM vs non-STEM graduates is again similar between the UK and US.

[@novalinnhe]

Thanks for the additional context!

[@RMatt2016]

That's helpful to know. Thanks :)

[@SubjectiveFunny]

Coming out with 60k debt??? Thats fkin insane...

[@doghat1619]

It's.. not real debt. 83% of Graduates do not pay off their loan and it's wiped after 30 years. Essentially it functions as a timed higher tax rate, after graduating you pay slightly more tax for 3 decades. The student loans company isn't going to repossess your assets if you become unemployed, if you don't have a job, you don't pay towards your student loan, if you get a decently paying job, you begin paying towards it.

[@SubjectiveFunny]

@@doghat1619 Debt is debt. It caps the money you earn for 30 years, affects your credit rating and loan prospects, not to mention the psychological impact of having multiple decades of debt shouldered onto you from the start of your career, for pretty much the entirety of your career. And the threshold to automatically start paying down the debt is £22k. If you think that is a well paying job, I feel sorry for you. Minimum wage is 19k ffs LOL

[@doghat1619]

@@SubjectiveFunny There are quite obviously different kinds of debt. If you don't make your mortgage payments, the bank takes away your house. If you aren't paying your student loans... the student loan company cannot take away your education, nor seize your property. "And the threshold to automatically start paying down the debt is £22k." It's 9% OVER 22k. So if you earn 23,000 pounds per year, you repay 9% of £1000, which is... £90 a year. So if you're BARELY earning above the minimum threshold, you pay essentially nothing. You're also just literally wrong about it affecting your credit score. Student Loans in the UK have no impact on your credit rating, no impact on how you'll be assessed for trying to get a mortgage. And if it isn't paid off in 30 years, it is completely wiped away. Does any other debt do that? Will banks forgive the small business loan or mortgage you took out if it's still owed 30 years in the future?

[@SubjectiveFunny]

@@doghat1619 You convinced me, I think we should start slapping 60k debt onto kids in primary school too. In fact, get 'em when they come out the womb. Instant debt, no downsides, only upsides. I never knew the system was so helpful and kind, literally no negatives at all!! Thanks for opening my mind!

[@doghat1619]

@@SubjectiveFunny Most reasonable youtube commenter

[@Dippins]

Whenever anyone asks why my STEM educated English dad picked up his life and moved to the USA, he responds that he makes ~4x here than what he could have made in the UK. He has a lot of friends at work from the UK, and they all say something along those lines. Maybe companies should be paying their educated workforce instead of removing caps on bankers bonuses.

[@nametab6415]

"maybe they should start paying their educated workforce more and stop paying their educated workforce more"

[@Dippins]

@@nametab6415 I didn’t expect a red herring as terrible as this that completely fails to apply any shred of nuance to the conversation, and yet here you are. Pre-Brexit EU inequality studies identified London as the richest area in the entirety of the EU, almost double second place, yet also identified 7 of the 10 poorest regions in the EU as being in the UK, worse than places like Romania and Poland. But please, let’s make those inequalities even worse. It’s the Tory way and it’s been working out smashingly for the last 12 years.

[@natalyabarton2205]

I went to uni to do an artsy/humanities degree (Media studies and practice) and tbh all the practical stuff I could have learned at home with KZbin (photoshop, editing, cinematography) so I wouldn’t say my degree was worth the £9k a year I was paying. However where I think uni is worth it is meeting new people from all over the world, learning about how different people do things and how their opinions may differ from yours based on where they grew up. I’m a teacher now and I encourage all those going to uni to move away as they learn so many life skills and meet so many different people. I always struggled in school making friends however at uni I found people I really connected with, and they weren’t always people on my course. Learning about the world in general is priceless and you get that at uni. No wonder the Tories hate uni students now because we’re exposed to other lifestyles and viewpoints which causes us to question their policies.

[@gentlehoovy5555]

University is absolutely worth it if you treat it the right way. I spent three years studying Zoology in the UK, which was not a ploy to get money but simply to get a qualification in a subject i'm enormously passionate about. I graduated last ac. Year and am moving straight into a job with the environmental department of an australian regional government authority (i have the very good fortune to have an aussie passport). The wages aren't incredible but the job looks relevant, interesting and rewarding, and I feel vindicated for choosing my passion over a "quick buck" even though I was repeatedly told I was making a mistake and would have no money or a future. It's yet to be seen whether i'll actually enjoy this job or not, but at least this degree and by extension this position has put me in a place where I can continue to grow and do what I care about.

[@dedasalmeida9047]

As long you're happy with your decision that's what matters 🙏🏾

[@petertownley7296]

university always better option many of these are lazy even with phd employers look for more than education work ethic with degree status = success many claim they cannot find work

[@sayno2lolzisback]

But without your passport your life would have taken a different path.

[@jordanmcgrory2171]

I think you also have to factor in that the graduate premium is a comparative statistic. Non-graduate pay stagnating (or falling against inflation) would mean that graduates only need to achieve very modest wage increases to grow the gap. The UK has embarked on a programme to increase the real terms value of its minimum wage in that last 10 years or so. This drives up the pay of typical non-graduate jobs in the likes of the retail and hospitality sector. The US on the other hand has seen no growth at all in its national (federal) minimum wage and only patchy growth in state and municipal minimum wages. This tight control of the wages of low paid workers in the US allows graduates to appear to be rushing ahead without necessarily needing to move that much.

[@HassanKhan0987]

I dropped out of uni this year. Honestly the best thing i've done. I'm working a job i enjoy and hope to earn a degree throught my company's apprenticeship programs

[@R53Hole]

just "a job I enjoy" !? Well what the hell is it?

[@BenjaminEmm]

Fresh computer science grad from a no name university in the midlands. After finishing I had 6 or so companies want to interview me, 3 offered positions, I accepted 1. 32K starting salary. Hard to say if it was the degree or interview skills, but even if the degree just ticked a box it got me in front of the right people. The core content could've been self taught for sure.

[@mellonviskaino9537]

That’s a bull, UK has got enough STEM grads. Personally, I graduated last year from KCL with a CS degree. The starting salary is 30k. Had to apply to 150 companies to get it. Graduated with a first. Half of my cohort is still unemployed. Lol, uk is just screwed

[@janbaan4024]

In 2017, my English teacher told us that the best thing you can do to have a succesfull future isn't to go a university, but going into trade. Man, she's right.

[@rodmarker2071]

and thats why we got Brexit .... what is easy to use robots for .... ? Tradesmen or Brain surgeons ? You English teacher is not a gypsy fortune teller

[@asimiqbal2040]

She’s right mate. I know plumbers and locksmiths who are earning really decent money working for themselves- yeah it takes time to get off the ground, but once that hurdle is out the way, you can really earn big bucks.

[@asimiqbal2040]

@JC-gl7ee unfortunately in the current times we’re living in, it’s becoming more and more about money.

[@asimiqbal2040]

@JC-gl7ee can you get a nice home without a decent salary- no Can you take your family on decent holidays without money - no Can you buy your friends and family decent gifts for parties, weddings etc without money - no Can you send your kids to a decent uni without money - no These things I mention above might not matter to you, but they do for me mate.

[@DerToasti]

she probably tried to get a job with her english degree and realized she's completely fucked and just became teacher.

[@doxologist]

This is a phenomenal topic and great Journalism 👌🏾 love it!

[@JackChurchill101]

TLDR, if you go to university, make damned sure it's because you're reaching for a six figure salary by 50 years old, else you might as well find a different path. You don't have to, but you'll never think "it really paid off"

[@Owentimmins871]

God forbid someone go to university simply to study a topic they enjoy

[@paullangford8179]

The problem begins with universities selling degrees, not the opportunity to earn a degree. Since then a degree has become debased currency. Once it used to demonstrate that a person had exceptional ability and skill, now it only says they have money enough to buy the degree.

[@lifeofdiggy6490]

Nobody is naked if everyone is naked. Degrees are worth nothing if everyone has one.

[@stormruner9183]

Even before watching the video, I have an answer for this: yes, it is absolutely worth it BUT you need to have an understanding on what a BSc, MSc or PhD can get you in your domain. Plus, there are a lot of areas where it is either requiered or at least recommended to have this kind of background (doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers). Also, if you want to continue in academia (researchers and scientists), then it is self explanatory. However, don't go to university just to "be there, and have a diploma in whatever". That usually doesn't work out great. In that case learning some sort of skill and/or starting your own business will be financially and mentally better for you, than having a piece of paper that states you are (barely) qualified in an overcrowded domain with low market demand and low wages. Analyze your options and do some self reflection before deciding a carreer path.

[@nintendokings]

That doesn’t explain the differences between the north and London, or the UK v the US

[@dealbreakerc]

It actually does. There are not enough graduate jobs therefore students should be aware of that and not expect amazing jobs fresh out of their degrees.

[@westay4924]

Honestly so surprised how entitled people are. Im doing an apprenticeship level 4, on around 27000 and am extremely grateful. I get resources to study extra things and can get a degree paid for if i stay long enough.

[@temslink2000]

I did a Stem subject for BSc and MSc (computer science and Cyber Sec) still can't get the kind of job I want as the grad pool is competing for a limited number of entry lvl jobs (nhs only seem to put 1 grad role up at a time that gets 1000 applicants easily) from my perspective it seems nobody wants us due to the lack of experience and being too untested

[@numa2444]

6:54 Saying the STEM problem is ‘solving itself’ is not accurate. This does a disservice to many charities and institutions across the UK doing incredible work to engage young people in STEM subjects and support schools with educating STEM. For example, the STEM Ambassador volunteering programme engages scientists, engineers and a whole range of STEM professionals to volunteer in schools to educate, inspire and mentor young people to consider STEM subjects. These sorts of programmes have been funded by government departments, universities and non-profits for years and problem is only getting resolved (with a lot more work to do still!) Because of these education programmes supporting our schools and communities.

[@oldskoolmusicnostalgia]

Ah, finally an analysis of an issue that actually matters... UK is a low wage economy in spite of being 5th or 6th by nominal GDP, anybody who studies the figures knows that. Plus Labour trashed the value of degrees by wanting graduates in all households. It ain't worth it kids, I'm posting that for all those school leavers who might be reading this thread.

[@0greeny0001]

I have seen a rise of "graduate level" jobs that in no shape or form require a degree. I do not have a degree and am a senior in my organisation, all three managers and directors also do not have a degree but we recently introduced a "graduate" scheme. My worry is that it will become mandatory to have a degree just to enter some companies regardless of the actual job.

[@dkoda840]

It’s already begun here in the US. Many companies won’t even look at your resume unless you tick their education box.

[@bodazephyr6629]

Nursing for many years didn't require a degree and now it does, same with police officers.

[@gdwe1831]

I have zero qualifications and have slowly crawled the technology career lader over the past 10 years, i lnow make more than most of my university educated peers. Saying this wages in the uk for developers jobs pay a lot less than american and european roles.

[@gerardflynn3899]

Never mind post graduate students. Why are wages so low for everyone in Britain.

[@glassmuxxic]

The data used to justify trying to send 50% of the population to university in the late 90s was incorrect. Too many graduates, too many crap degrees, too little funding for vocational and technical education. Also a story of the UK economy getting less competitive, innovative and productive over time relative to competitor countries - on top of it being almost mandatory to head down to London in many fields, the costs of which often wipe out the individual gains for years.

[@PLuMUK54]

During my years as a teacher I noted an increase in parental interest in their children going to university. Often the parents took no notice of their child's abilities, or rather their lack, in the subjects that they were pushing their child towards. I've had parents insisting that their child would be a doctor, despite doing badly in science. Others pushed for a subject because they, the parents, liked a programme on television, such as wanting them to be an archaeologist because of "Time Team". Often the child did not want to go to University, but were browbeaten into it. It did not help that there were universities running course that anyone could get onto. A common joke was that you could get into certain Universities with a "letter from your mum". University is not suitable for everyone, but suggest that to some parents, and they would have hysterics! As much as we might wish it otherwise, everyone is not equal. Some young people are not interested, like my neighbour's eldest child. She is intelligent, but she wants a career where she can "earn and learn". Her mother is horrified that she might have to admit to friends that her daughter is not at university. Some simply are not good enough academically, and are setting themselves up for failure, though, of course, currently people are not allowed to fail. Personally, if I had my own children, I would want them to be well educated. Unfortunately, to do so they would have a burden that I never had, the dreaded student loans. It's incredible to me that governments encourage university, yet saddle people with debts that take years to pay off. Do I think university is a good thing? Yes, if you are rich enough to pay your debts off quickly, university is a good experience. Yes, if you know the direction that you are heading, and tailor your degree to that end. No, if you are being pushed into it. No, if you take a course because it might be interesting. No, if you don't have the ability to obtain a worthwhile degree. No, if your degree is not taking you anywhere.

[@PGHEngineer]

In my experience it is the teachers pushing kids into university, because they use it in their own advertising

[@Peacefulnessxxx]

Well having worked in a direction that has not worked out due to having abilities and interests in a given area trying to get a foot to a chartered qualification but the main problem is if things don't work out and your stuck in a drudgery job trying to get something doable but nobody replies to CVs these days we will get to the point where decent jobs don't exist if migrants keep on taking them its like that where I work even being second generation immigrant.

[@rhymesandvibes]

​@@Peacefulnessxxxsimilar experience here being 2nd gen. 1st class degree in business and marketing, worked in bars thru uni (before pandemic struck -- class of covid19 lol). Can't lie, I'm dissapointed in the lack of actual jobs. I've explored my options, even taking on 2 apprenticeships after graduating. One in a trade (5.30am starts had me), one in an office (fired on "mental health grounds"). I graduated uni 2021, no ceremony as we were in between lockdowns. The graduate market is a shambles. Like, non existent, as far as I'm concerned.

[@Peacefulnessxxx]

@@rhymesandvibes yeah nevermind others I know have it even worse with no job or a far worse one as the managers are great but it's not stable and started being minimum wage after the hikes as only engineers have it good if you get to become one its really hard to get into.

[@Gibbo263]

Too many people going to uni for degrees that lead nowhere, forcing them into jobs that don't require higher education. 6th form and colleges need to stop encouraging students to go to uni as if it is the only option

[@liamwarren7590]

Absolute joke i currently pay £400 a month in student loan payments and its not even paying the interest off. The countries a mess.

[@aituk]

Because degree's aren't as valuable as they they used to be. We used to hire graduate Engineers every year at my workplace but their level of knowledge nowadays is so poor compared to what it used to be we prefer to go straight to kids out of school, put them on apprenticeships and train them ourselves.

[@user-op8fg3ny3j]

Apprentice engineers are better than graduate ones?

[@BoyeeSmudger]

​@@user-op8fg3ny3japprentice trained engineer here (aerospace manufacturing - composites). I would say so, many I worked with didn't know the basics, very bright and clever yes. But from my experience, the seasoned engineers prefer apprentices because they didn't have to teach the basics. Such as how to use a torque wrench. Spent much of my time with graduates setting them up to carry out R&D tasks. Also had a culture of, oh this drill bit is blunt it must be thrown away and replaced with new because they were not aware that they could be sharpened. Another one I found was parts turning up on the shop floor that could be assembled to another in all sorts of ways, rather than setting up the parts so that it would only fit one way. Companies are dulling down skilled workforce on shop floors so it's the engineers job to ensure those on the shop floor (semi-skilled) can not assemble parts incorrectly. Sandwich years are helpful, but no replacement for a 3-5 year apprenticeship.

[@aituk]

@@user-op8fg3ny3j It used to be that getting graduates was less hassle, we wouldn't have to train them up to graduate level, they would arrive at a really good standard, but the standards over the years have dropped so much. Not just knowledge but work ethic, how they present themselves, just basic stuff like being punctual etc. So in the end we invested in a apprenticeship scheme and now we train them to graduate level ourselves. They still do their degree but they're trained by us instead of going to college and university full time.

[@Altirix_]

@@user-op8fg3ny3j well from a high level overview, an apprentice will have 3 years of experience when a graduate starts, both will have the same qualifications too assuming the employer sends them to uni with their apprentiship. Experience is valuable. i think you also have far more people picking degrees on how much money they could make, not factoring in if its something they either care about or want to do. far more of those people need to be weeded out in hireing

[@teemumiettinen7250]

Have you thought that maybe workplace demands too much nowadays? Many companies are extremely specialized in some absurd field, which is never taught in schools, because you are literally the only company in the world doing that stuff, its not worth teaching it.

[@klaudiagrob]

It is really sad. I did a university degree because I wanted to. No one should be punished by the lack of job opportunities due to 'too many people going to the university. Not everyone wants to go to technical schools. Maybe politicians want graduates to do jobs that are below their qualification.

[@DaveEden07]

Also, remember when ever talking about a "premium" it is a squeeze from both sides. Not just grad wages up but going up or down relative to the other variable (non grad wages). So non grad wages in the UK may have outperformed the US, which should be a positive, rather than our grad wages simply underperforming.

[@oscartini8030]

I don't know why, but we have created this culture of aversion to the trade schools, when in fact there are plenty of good paying jobs out there, for people who have the correct set of skills in the workplace. There should be a better communication between what the country and companies need, with the schools and universities, meaning adjusting the number of academic vacancies, instead of misleading students to faculties that will get them frustrated and unemployed.

[@jimpaddy79]

But if you sent all those people to trade school wouldn’t we get a massive over supply of plumbers, I thinks traded pay well only because not enough people do them, and if they started as you suggest rates would go down

[@westay4924]

not really theres so many trade shortages right now. trades are cheaper to learn but you need to work harder for it, most people choose the easy option which is uni.@@jimpaddy79

[@alejandro_mery]

if you look at job posts for graduates they usually offer 20k/pa, some even less. non-graduate jobs pay MORE

[@jls4184]

university graduates are low pay in the UK but maybe high pay in others' countries, such as Dubai, Australia and America. So get your education and work experiences and then leave this country and earn big chuck of money in others' countries.

[@nametab6415]

I think an issue with the US-UK comparison is that in US degrees I believe tend to be broader and therefore equip their holders with the skills for a wider array of jobs

[@sos2530]

Exactly! I have a communication degree but i’m in the finance industry. It doesn’t matter half the time what degree you have. It’s your ability to think outside the box that gets you a job!

[@Heisenberg_747]

The main thing is companies are hiring a candidate with already 2-3 years of experience for a graduate role. And an actual graduate is having a difficulty is finding a job. I have a Masters degree in Engineering and I’m working in retail.

[@goatsummoner]

Living in the North, I feel like we're forgotten or ignored. I've had a hard time finding a job that pays OK but also doesn't work me to death or is a source of endless stress. I used to work in a factory for £27k a year. But the stress, anxiety and terrible working conditions weren't worth the money. I had to go to counselling because of stress. I was given a warning for have 5 sick days in a year (two days were when I had to go to hospital because I was in excruciating pain). And I was talked down to when I had to go to a dentist appointment during work, one of three I needed (the other two of which I had managed to get during my own time). I worked my arse off whilst in the factory. I was treated like dirt and my health and wellbeing meant nothing to the management. I refuse to work for a company like that ever again. I should have learnt my lesson the first time this happened and quit on the spot.

[@rakuu9843]

Having lived in the north and south both for uni, and now living in the north for a grad job, Im led to believe it’s not a north/south divide. It’s an england/london divide. I have spent most of the past two years living in Leeds/Manchester, and prior to that I spent 3 years in Portsmouth/Southampton. Both these regions of the country feel similar in terms of public services, economic activity, green spaces etc (portsmouth marginally felt like the most neglected out of the 4). I have friends from London and it’s genuinely a different world there. The pay scales are insane, and the rent is even worse. The government focuses way too much on London at the moment and it needs to change. Although having said that, I know a considerable number of people who have gotten jobs in Manchester since the end of uni and it does seem like the new up & coming place to be for decent wages and cheaper rents.

[@simonfrost7094]

@@rakuu9843 This - exactly this. London is the only part of the economy that makes money any more (dirty money at that - London is the world capital of money laundering) so all the investment goes into London, all the legislation makes sure that London's position as a global financial centre and it's economic engine is protected. The rest of country just gets whatever scraps we can from London's table.

[@freewyvern707]

I despise when it's blamed on humanities degree. Politics, Economics, and Law are all amongst the most earning degrees and yet they are humanities

[@inbb510]

Did you watch the video? The problem is an *oversupply* of humanities subjects over stem. Also by "Humanities and Arts", what we mean are stuff like English, Gender Studies, Creative Writing, History, Classics, Media Studies. In the age of AI and manual labour disappearing due to automation, a nation will slowly become unproductive if we have to *TOO MUCH* people graduating with these degrees. This is because they don't produce as nearly as an economic output as people who do STEM, Economics, Law and Politics. With our cultural aversion to maths, it is no wonder that our nation has low productivity. How can you expect people who had preconceived prejudices about maths being "elitist" who into adulthood have no basic grasp of fundamental concepts of statistics, maths and other hard skills can ever contribute to society.

[@itsawill9268]

@@inbb510nah bro don’t slander English

[@inbb510]

@@itsawill9268 , I'm not necessarily slandering English degrees but the oversupply of said graduates. Companies and jobs just don't spring out of a vacuum hence having an oversupply of these degrees will obviously lead to lower wages as there is diminishing economic returns for every one more English student graduating. Companies can't just overstaff as that will lead to a bigger decrease in wages an economic productivity (that's the case with our railway workers, one of the problem is that it is overstaffed and many there are averse to using new methods and technologies which require far less human resources). Also as I said earlier, in the age of AI and rapid technological growth, just having a Humanities degree just simply doesn't cut it anymore. Traditional Manual labour and office work is slowly disappearing due to AI being more cost efficient and better for many service industries.

[@CandyKoRn]

But STEM subjects lead to poor paying jobs here too? It's all fucked regardless of your degree.@@inbb510

[@nightlyfrost]

Uni in itself is a waste of time for most people. I didn't learn anything in my time there unlike I did with college, and at the same time they sold us the idea of "Going to uni can get you any job you want" but when it came to applying for a job they valued more experience than education. Not once have I ever been hired based on my education. I believe that all colleges around the UK should provide the majority of their courses with apprenticeships within their chosen field after 3 years of their chosen course and let them do at least 2 years of apprenticeship which comes down to 5 years in total. This will help everyone get into jobs based on their specific field, understand their chosen field, learn a new set of skills, gain experience, and get paid to learn. Companies won't be short-staffed, they can hire potential students on a permanent contract after completing their course, reduce employee turnover, help develop skills, improve retention rates, and increase productivity and performance. Those that require further education for example doctors, teachers, engineers, lawyers and so on, should definitely go to Universities. Universities can reduce their courses and focus mainly on those specific fields and the government won't have to worry about Mickey Mouse courses or chasing students to pay their students loans back. This would greatly benefit the country.

[@Abraxium]

I'm sorry, there might be some disconnect here. Are colleges different from universities or in some sort a precedent before university? In Sweden, universities can carry out their own independent research, while also often featuring more humanities programmes. Colleges have them too, but research is more often through a university

[@cipher8400]

@@Abraxium In uk college is the education before university, usually. The commenter is reffering to sixth form college. Colleges usually provide a wider range of qualifications than sixth forms, but they also contain sixth form qualifications. Sixth Form is like the finals for uk kids (16-18), where they take A levels or Btecs. Univerisities look at your sixth form results/grades to enroll/decline (if you are an undergraduate).

[@BigHenFor]

Unfortunately, apprenticeships can't be pulled out of a hat. Employers have to want to offer them, and be willing to set up the procedures and funding. And in a something-for-nothing, short-termist world, that is being becoming difficult. And the pay is often low in apprenticeships. Moreover, budgets in the Public Service sector are going to be severely squeezed over the next few decades, so there are not a lot opportunities there. The sad fact is employers that are willing to offer and invest apprenticeships is very limited. So, where they do exist, competition is really high. So, what you can do yourself is be pro-active in finding opportunities to acquire experience, and to consider synergies in fields related to your discipline, and opportunities abroad. In other words, you need to analyse the market for your skills, and treat yourself as a product that needs to be relevant and marketed to prospective employers. Especially, if you seek employment in a world where the prediction that AI will take over your field within a decade. And perhaps more importantly, consider your personal goals and motivations. You need to be guided by them. What has meaning for you, and gives you purpose should guide your decisions. Always keep your priorties in mind. Look as your life as something to be designed by you. That means perhaps you have to be more experimental and adventurous, in order to create the life you want to lead, and don't be afraid of change. Good Luck.

[@nightlyfrost]

@@BigHenFor It's true that there are regulations and administrative hurdles just for an apprenticeship program, and not many companies are willing to go through all that hassle. But if the government approached it with an easier way for companies to jump into the program, it would provide more opportunities to future generations and also benefit the business industry. It's true that the wages aren't high for apprenticeships, but most colleges pay for attendance only £30 a week (not sure if that's changed, but they did when I was at college). So why not pay them a bit more to learn and work, even if the wage is small? It's more than what you would get by attending. Even in the long run, not only do students walk out with a fresh set of new skills, but they also have work experience, and in some cases, they get hired by the company, increasing their wages and even climbing up the ladder based on their potential skills. The world is changing and it's important to recognize that automation, AI, and robotics are becoming more prominent. For instance, companies like McDonald's, which used to hire a large workforce, now rely on a fraction of the employees they once did. They are now looking to push robots to handle serving, and with self-checkout, there's really no need for many workers besides one or two. Even food standards in the restaurant chain have dropped to the point that all it takes is to heat it up. Amazon is no different; they are already pushing for robots to sort out packages. I'm not saying that workers will be obsolete, but if this trend continues, it's going to take a significant hit. AI is still only in its early stages, and over time, it will become highly proficient. It can already perform complex coding, design websites, generate art, and much more. There are even discussions about AI becoming capable of analyzing health problems and providing solutions, potentially impacting industries like healthcare in the near future. Companies are hiring fewer people these days, and even if they demand workers back, one person has to do the job of ten people due to staffing shortages. Companies are reluctant to hire more, and quality standards have dropped because most businesses prioritize cost over quality. The new generation is turning to social media, whether it's TikTok, Twitch, KZbin, or even OnlyFans, as a career path. Traditional employment now often demands longer hours but less pay, with an increase in stress and depression. Countries are experiencing slow economic growth due to decreased productivity and lower work performance. It's a critical issue, and the impacts are already evident. However, even social media platforms are not without their challenges; individuals are overwhelmed with advertisements and misleading information, which is often influenced by the government. The current generation has to compete with billions of people and stay relevant by following the latest trends. Others are looking more into AI for quick cash. If the government doesn't get its act together and reform both the education and work industries, the future generation will face significant challenges, and the economy will continue to decline. The poor are the ones who are having it hard, it's not the rich. I may be looking ahead, but it's crucial to address the problems of tomorrow today.

[@hollowayjah]

I always resent the fact that in school and sixth form I was basically told that the university route was the only sensible option and teachers would always say 'When you get to university' not if. I didn't go to university and I don't regret it one bit. I hate how the school system doesn't encourage more apprenticeships, I got one and I make about as much as my friends who have a degree. People don't go to university to learn anymore it's for the 'experience' to go drinking and partying. I'd just rather not waste my money and put myself in debt.

[@Tannhauser62]

No good school pushes university as the only worthwhile option. Plenty of people go to uni to learn. And not everyone wants to party and drink.

[@earlh]

Who would have thought that entrusting 18-year-olds with crucial life choices and providing them guaranteed loans for several years would lead to such a predicament?

[@pratosaurusrex1128]

It’s almost like the mantra of 50% of young people going to university was a political point scoring exercise and not a well thought out policy.

[@SaintGerbilUK]

​@@pratosaurusrex1128who wants people to depend on government handouts and reward helplessness? Used to be just the red team, but now it could be red or blue.

[@pratosaurusrex1128]

@@SaintGerbilUK I think most don’t but the fact that so many are is a damning indictment that successive governments have failed put policies help the country to adapt to the UK’s place in the world (economically speaking).

[@SaintGerbilUK]

@@pratosaurusrex1128 No I agree, its not most of the general public, I think it is most university leavers, and definatly entierly too many people for the system to support them.

[@pratosaurusrex1128]

@@SaintGerbilUK I see what you are getting at. But I don’t think it’s the university leavers’ fault though. At 18, if society tells you that university is the pinnacle of education, and your parents (if they went to uni) tell you that you need to get the ‘university experience’, then of course you would want to better yourself. Labour in 1997, then the Tories/Lib Dems in the early 2010s have created this problem and mismanaged it to no end.

[@jonathanwetherell3609]

Fifty years ago a 16 year old with 5 good "O" Levels had the passport to a good career. The percentage of the year with this level was smaller than those now going to University. A change for the good? Not really, by 21 they had 5 years of experience and 5 years of earning. Now the contrast is even higher. Add in the English disease of "Academic subjects are Repectible, Technical jobs are for the peasants." Two generations ago any degree was rare and a passport to a good job, now we need the right sort of degree from the right University, both from the individuals and the states view point.

[@lewismcdonald9691]

Should just be why are wages low

[@DrMario-pd4kv]

The problem is always the same: People go to university with the hope of having a good job. This is totally wrong. People should use the culture obtained to make money as self-employed or entrepreneur or investor or speculator. The University does not teach this. British schools and universities teach how to be exploited employees with debts!

[@iielysiumx5811]

Came out of uni with a masters and undergrad and go a role for 22k a year, and I’m one of the lucky ones

[@Tigerman303]

I would never take that, that's ridiculous

[@iielysiumx5811]

Yeah it’s not great is it, but the fact I’m consideeed lucky is crazy

[@vista9434]

Ouch, I earn 24k as a degree apprentice in my second year

[@martinthomson8666]

I left uni 5 years ago with a Mechanical Engineering degree, got 1.7K per month graduate salary (after a year of applying for 80+ jobs), so much so STEM being in demand ...Fast forward 5 years experience in the oil industry, and i still have 2 jobs just to barely pay the bills. Engineering was a complete waste of my time

[@spaghettiking7312]

Half of everyone who goes to university never gets anything out of their degree and ends up with minimum wage service jobs.

[@tylerbeaumont]

I graduate next month. My first Universal Income payment is set to come out 5 days after I throw my cap in the air. This country is so horrendous for young people looking for work - I can’t even find a job at Tesco thanks to the 100 applicant minimum on Indeed and Reed! I have a fucking degree, and I’m not an ideal candidate for an interview at Mc-fuckin-Donald’s!

[@Andrew_BIake]

It depends on what you value more tbh. I have a degree in Biomedical Science (IBMS Accredited (translation, I can go into diagnostics and not just research) once I have finished (2/3 done) my IBMS portfolio meaning I will have gained Health and Care Professional Council (HCPC) certification. I began work at the bottom of the barrel (Band 2 MLA) in the NHS before being promoted to an Associate Practitioner for 3 years (Band 4). When I left my job in August (NGL, I absolutely LOVED my job) to pick up a MSc in Biomedical Science (currently putting together a research project proposal in treating Osteosarcoma in paediatrics with Vitamin D supplements) as going through different job criteria, I noticed they almost all exclusively said "10 years experience or a MSc in Biomedical Science". Don't get me wrong, a Band 4 Salary is ok (about 25k, rising to 27k) but I want more for my future and I don't want to have to wait 10 years for it... so, in all honesty, it depends on where you go and in what industry. If you want money, stay out of public services as it pays FA. Ideally when I graduate (hopefully in September as my course finishes in July) I have expressed my complete interest in returning to my old place of work and will have the education to do it (and gain a bit more experience as obviously I'll be out of diagnostics for a whole year) but with the intention of moving up to a Band 6 position (about £10k more than my previous position). So, long story short, salaries just aren't rising as much as they should be in the public sector, especially where I can rectify in medicine...

[@BewareTheLilyOfTheValley]

Oof. I know without a doubt in the U.S. (I'm American) that your degrees would be earning you no less than $70K and even that might be low. Continuing to stay in the UK really makes your job a work of heart and that's admirable.

[@Andrew_BIake]

@@BewareTheLilyOfTheValley not that I’m trying to put any job occupation down but I often think to myself when I see on the side of the bus “drive this bus, starting salary £27k”, I’m there thinking “is it worth just quitting my hospital job to drive a bus, pays more money and no overtime…”. Public salaries in the UK are an absolute joke…

[@Davserban]

How did you start as an MLA if your degree was accredited? You can become a trainee and complete your portfolio after you finished your degree to get a BMS job.

[@Andrew_BIake]

@@Davserban essentially you have to in the UK get experience before applying for higher paid roles as experience where virtually everyone has a degree is king. I got somewhat lucky when the pandemic hit as they were employing en-mass (I was around 1 of 50 MLAs) in a lab of 400 people total (before I was promoted to an AP). After this, it made my life easier as I was offered my IBMS portfolio and the chance to come back to the lab afterwards during my degree to have work signed off. So, if you don’t know what to do say should a sample or chemical spill and can’t answer it in an interview properly, it will impact your chances of employment, qualified or not. 🙂

[@BewareTheLilyOfTheValley]

@@Andrew_BIake Wait, you're not even earning $27K?! Oh my god...I work customer service over the phone for a small office and make $43K (before tax). That's just under middle class here. Now, all this being said...I suppose the more important question is what the cost of living is like in your area? Because perhaps your income is appropriate for your area. Okay, very rarely is that true, lol. I live in a state that has had some of the slowest wage growth in the entire country,but the cost of living is lower...to an extent. This city is growing and now everyone wants to raise rent. While I'm able to keep my head above the water with my most expensive bills being a car note (pretty much mandatory in the U.S., unfortunately) and rent, I live paycheck to paycheck. The pandemic caused some shakeups to happen but we probably won't see a rise like that for awhile. But still...geez, less than $27K for your degrees is just...highway robbery. Might have to learn the art of negotiation for your next job hunt and when asked what you expect to make for your salary, give a number that realistically is worth your skills. They'll counter your amount (should you get an offer), but never take it. Give another number, your real number, that's just a little bit lower than what you put on your application. Maybe it won't work at all, but at this point, you don't really have anything to lose, it seems...

[@Profilejc98]

Gradiated two years ago, my first grad salary was pants but I doubled it within two years. The first job doesn't necessarily need to define you.

[@title9387]

Personally would NOT go back and do university again. My course was advertised as a way to be recognised as a professional in the world of TV production, took cinematography quite seriously...turns out all I have to do is eat gigantic proportions of food, then start crying like a toddler and post the video on KZbin...(we all know who I'm referring to 🤣) Anyway long story short, tried for years building up my portfolio and it turns out it's who you know, not what you know...ended up as a truck driver and to be honest I feel like I'm providing more for society now...don't waste your time on pointless (because tbh not all of them are pointless) degrees, go learn a trade...plumber/electrician/truck driver/carpenter/welder, the world is running out of them and they are always needed 👍

[@alpree]

This was very insightful for me as a prospective student.

[@dddddbbb]

So the UK has not enough STEM graduates is the conclusion you reach. Yet you compared to America where they are not facing this issue..and in America they have a LOWER percentage of STEM graduates than the UK (15% to 23%). So this doesn't seem to be a valid conclusion.

[@MrJohnRWells]

You can rely on TLDR to reach the wrong conclusions.

[@kramer26]

I spent 5 years at university, as an adult having had a previous career, in a different country, very non-inclusive but thankfully no language barrier, and transferred to a different school in a different city halfway through, with earthquakes and every other adversity you can imagine, with the goal of furthering myself. Yet I persevered and gained my degree and now back in my home country 5 years later, working in a professional, but not a "graduate" role nor even very well paid, and after a continuous cataclysm of political mismanagement and disarray, I feel so much worse off and sometimes wish I'd chosen a different path.

[@ramyamaher]

How is the number of people having a Master's degree more than those having a BA? Can this graphic be correct?

[@RMatt2016]

The figure acts up both undergrad and masters together.

[@ramyamaher]

@@RMatt2016 That's what I thought, too. It was not said or written clearly, however. Thanks!

[@nathansavage8692]

Im a degree apprentice at a SME, as we have a PAYE bill of under 3 million, the government is paying 95% of my tuition and my employer the other 5%. It is crazy that standard tuition is so high when the government will hand out money hand over fist so long as you are an apprentice no questions asked!