TMCP #82 / The ACNA & Anglo-Catholicism / With Fr. Timothy Matkin

merecatholics....
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Intro Music: Scott Anderson

[@danielhixon8209]

I really appreciated Fr. Matkin's comments in this interview. I think his realism about the "brokenness" of every major branch of the church, and his caution against always moving around looking here and there for perfection is definitely wise. I also hope that the ACNA will develop a stronger cohesion in the future, and I suspect folks from many different "churchmanships" actually share that hope to some extent.

[@Zhought3391]

Love to hear the positive comments on the Continuum. We definitely have much to share with our faithful brethren in the ACNA.

[@anselman3156]

I appreciate Fr Timothy's streaming of Mass so that I can make a spiritual communion now that I no longer have an Anglo Catholic church to go to. Scotland is now a bit of a spiritual desert, and the Scottish Episcopal Church is too far gone into serious error.

[@davidmckissack7528]

Given his concerns over issues in some ACNA churches, I'm curious why Fr. Matkin hasn't moved to Anglican Province in America. The ACC is already a member of the G3 Synod, which includes the Anglican Catholic Church, the Anglican Church of America, and the Anglican Province of America. They met in Synod a few months ago to explore cooperating more closely. None of the G3 churches approves of ordaining women and other innovations we see in ACNA.

[@Young_Anglican]

A great interview! Lots of good and thoughtful comments on the ACNA

[@Zhought3391]

The Three Streams philosophy and WO remain some serious barriers to further unity, even within the ACNA. I just don’t see how C4SO will ever align with the rest of the Continuing bodies, given how heavy they are on Women’s Ordination and some of their other practices. May God grant the church unity in the right way, in the right things.

[@internetenjoyer1044]

three streams is such a lie about the natural of anglicanism it infuriates me tbh

[@vngelicath1580]

​@internetenjoyer1044 Speaking as a Lutheran rather than an Anglican, what is the alternative to the 3 streams model? Churchmanship schools seem to be the only way Anglicanism can exist in the Continuum unless, of course, you finally resolve how to regard the authority of the Formularies and tolerate differences of Reformed and Catholic leaning. That seems to be an even more long-lasting existential obstacle to Anglican identity than the WO issue.

[@Zhought3391]

@@vngelicath1580 Frankly, there’s been a low bar on bishops and priests; several charismatic groups and individuals were brought in that should never have done so. I would further suggest a moratorium on any further women’s ordination, for starters, and electing bishops who will clamp down on the worst of excesses. Honestly, it’s trying to group together people who are being sinful and disobedient in their view of holy orders, and I do not see how it can long endure as an orthodox body.

[@mafakefoot]

I learned answers to many questions I longed to know and answers to more questions I did not yet know to ask . Thank you Fr Matkin, you are gifted, please continue making videos, your gifts can save the Church

[@erichhershey2308]

"A dictionary of early Christian beliefs" by David Bercot is a great book. David is, however, no longer an Anglican priest, but he teaches in an Anabaptist community. He did write that book, though, when he was an Anglican.

[@roddumlauf9241]

I have spoken to David Bercot a number of times. Interestingly, his work on the Early Church Fathers caused me to leave the protestant church and become English/Anglo-Catholic. I think David believes that it it much more important to lead a gospel life, which the Ana Baptist's preach, than doctrinal purity. Bercot believes we are saved by "how we live" not by "what we believe" intellectually doctrinally. Bercot is solidly Anglican in his beliefs but he sees the Anglican/RC Catholic/Orthodox Church morally bankrupt when it comes to the moral teachings of the Early Church...which is why he joined the Ana-Baptists/Mennonites and Amish. Just a little correction Erich, Bercot did not write the book, but he complied and edited the book.

[@erichhershey2308]

​@roddumlauf9241 Yes, he did an interview on the gospel simplicity channel that explained all of that, and what he is currently up to. He also does not affirm infant baptism unfortunately like the Apostolic churches, so among other things, the anabaptists are a better fit for him.

[@roddumlauf9241]

@@erichhershey2308 Yeah, although Bercot affirms Baptismal Regeneration, I'm puzzled that he doesn't affirm infant baptism. And what's really odd to me, in the book he edits ( A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs) he shows all the quotes for the belief in Apostolic Succession by the Early Church but now he himself as an Ana-Baptist denies it. I'll have to check out the Gospel Simplicity episode ....thanks.

[@Joe-sw9nk]

Pray for the unity of Christendom

[@johnpolitis7929]

@Joe-sw9nk That would the medieval Christendom the only way and no other.

[@jamessheffield4173]

Being 25% green Irish I don't forget Augustine of Canterbury refusing to stand in respect of the Welsh bishops, and the Synod of Whitby. Pax.

[@christopherbates1428]

What is Fr. Matkin’s take on the Chair of St. Peter Ordinarite?

[@drcrisafi2320]

David Bercot is now an anabaptist pastor

[@christopherbates1428]

Also, what books would Fr. Matkin recommend?

[@wesmorgan7729]

There's a podcast episode where Bercot explains why he left Anglicanism.

[@albertito77]

Who dat

[@phillipwoodfin-nb7ud]

Is churchmanship the gospel? A hobby? Culture club? Is Jesus enough?

[@Cjinglaterra]

I wonder if your guest ever met my old priest, Fr Owen Henderson.

[@johnmckillop3820]

I quite like what Fr. Matkin has to say...but his mug is smug😆

[@whatsgoingonwhy9096]

Anglicanism doesn’t make sense without the reformed theology. I was a very traditional Catholic who went Anglican. My were there went through Anglo-Catholic parishes and also trying to hold onto Anglo-Catholic theology as a distinct idea. Coming from a Latin Catholic to Anglican, I’ll tell my brothers and sisters who are Anglo Catholic it looks fake and feels fake from the Catholic point of view. Anglo Catholicism is a later development by the Oxford movement and their leader realized he had to become Catholic. Newman said to be deep in church history is to cease to be Protestant, but really to be a historically versed Anglo Catholic leads only to a cessation of being Anglo Catholic and becoming Catholic. The Roman Catholic magisterium gives license to do those things which Anglo Catholics want to do in their faith practices. In my experience those who want to be specifically Anglo Catholic do so because they want to be married priests in the Latin Catholic way. There are a few who like it because it does appear ancient, despite using a book of common prayer from the 1920’s. When you remove the reformed theology out of Anglicanism it ceases to be Anglican.

[@KevinDay]

"Why would you pour Jesus's blood on the ground?" Because it was already poured out on the ground at the foot of the cross for me.

[@roddumlauf9241]

At least they don't pour it down into the drain to end up in the sewer.

[@williamofdallas]

What a ridiculous attitude

[@KevinDay]

@@williamofdallas Yes, the incarnation and death of the Son of God and the humiliation he bore in our stead is all very scandalous. You might want to get used to it if you plan on staying in this religion for a while.

[@roddumlauf9241]

@@williamofdallas What is ridiculous about this attitude; what attitude ?

[@internetenjoyer1044]

i think that many forms of anglo catholicism is unanglican and we should hold fast to the formularies tbh

[@RyanGrandon]

Sounds like he's going to become RC soon

[@williamofdallas]

Nah

[@daviddragona1853]

PRAY THAT HE COMES HOME TO THE FULLNESS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH THE ONE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH ⛪

[@mafakefoot]

@kennethchidozie3317 Nah means like NOT or NO and is sometimes used correctly, but you kinda have to have been there

[@mafakefoot]

@@daviddragona1853Fr Matkin IS Home in the fullness of the Holy Catholic Church.

[@mafakefoot]

@@williamofdallas maryann "of Dallas"@ St F... tripped into your pew again...cant stop meeting like this. 🤷‍♀️

[@daviddragona1853]

PLEASE COME HOME ENOUGH YOUR SYMBOL SERVICES ARE NOT VALID YOUR ORDERS ARE NULL AND VOID NO CATHOLIC CANNOT EVER GO TO YOUR WORSHIP SERVICE

[@mafakefoot]

daviddragona1 hmm pot calling kettle black,sir. You would be welcome but liturgics so historic and prayerful likely too high church if you are used to Roman liturgics used now.

[@margaretdefrias698]

Arrogant rubbish😊