TODAY the CHEATER FALLS……maybe | Fan Showdown S4E5

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The cheater has been number one on the fan showdown since last season. Today one fan made of multiple pieces takes aim at knocking it off the top spot.
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[@Pohtaytohs]

I keep saying, take the top 5-10 fans and put them into the cheater housing. You'll likely get one that beats the cheater at it's own game

[@BGTech1]

Those stationary guide veins that make a huge difference. I bet it would be even better if there was 8 instead of 4

[@_miobrot_603]

Keep saying it, it is a great idea.

[@Borcheltski]

Make that a final shoot-out. Top 10 fans in the housing and see who reigns supreme

[@harbirnain]

I said about the cheater that the game was now to design the best fan for the cheater shroud, and the best cheater shroud.

[@DeadsTBD]

Agreed and while we're at it as they become bigger and bigger... why not make a "Dual-hub" (tm) fan assembly? Basically add another fan hub behind the 1rst and make it turn blades in counter-rotation, just these 2 should be smaller than the stack of the cheater and really be "cheating" as it would use 2 hubs... But well... After that put the cheater housing on top and see where we at... And tbh i think 2 hubs could be a more sellable idea...

[@peacefulscrimp5183]

I been watching little fans suck smoke through them for over a year, and I still love it 👍

[@Kyrazlan]

wow, no mentions of the second to none performing almost the same as the overdrive? I was actually stunned by its performance.

[@nesyboi9421]

All I know is that I was extremely disappointed to find out that it was not in fact inspired by the M2 Bradley's promotional video

[@jorge8596]

And at a higher rpm than the a12x25 too, I bet a little more blade angle and some more refinement on the airfoil (the trailing edge looks square) would make it even better than the noctua

[@lincalmighty]

It was second to one at least...

[@KrazeeeOne]

Overdrive was losing a lot of airflow at the seams between the fan and shrouds. I wonder if there's significant gains to be had by designing a full enclosure or using gaskets... I mean, the thing already has bearings and gears. Might as well over engineer the thing

[@TheRattleSnake3145]

It had to much pitch on the blades.

[@static2430]

@@TheRattleSnake3145 I tried a design where it was shallower at the top and got steeper towards the bottom. Trying to get blades that are tall with a shallow angle is tricky.

[@No_Way_NO_WAY]

@@static2430 in my design (which sadly wasnt tested (yet)) i tried to solve the issue by eliminating blades when the space got to cramped. I basically had 3 rings where the blade count towards the middle halves every ring to keep roughly the same distance from blade to blade. Depending on your blade count you could do likewise when going down the main shaft. that way you could decrease the attack angle of the blades and still keep enough space for the air to move through so it wont choke itself.

[@static2430]

@@No_Way_NO_WAY that's an interesting idea. I'm leaning towards a multi part assembly for the mk2 model.

[@Sol-hm7ol]

you say that like its not already over engineered, dawg its a fan not an alien spaceship 😭

[@static2430]

I guess the calculations I did were based on theoretical air movement and not actual air movement! Guess it's back to the drawing board! -Nate (Yes, the overdrive creator)

[@gqh007]

Good job tho. And the documentation was sexy af

[@Lil_Puppy]

FYI, you beat the A12x25 by 300 rpm for the exact same output and nearly identical dba. Optimize for weight and you'll eat its lunch.

[@LeeMooEez]

Fitment complexity improvement..because I think this really affecting the whole thingy

[@icediverfull]

@@Lil_Puppy this should be true. would love to see it

[@iamdestructoman]

honestly i think the gears needed to be run for several hours to properly mesh. shouldn't have added oil on the gears at first.. let them run for a while dry to break them in, then add oil and test. it was getting stuck on starting and i believe it would not if some "self clearancing" had been done first.

[@BarrelRoll7]

Honestly expected my Cyber Eye fan to do worse lol. Good to see it in action though!

[@grabindragin3307]

I can't think of the anime that inspired the fan

[@altus1226]

That was yours? Heck you have submitted a few haven't ya xD

[@jabear4]

@@grabindragin3307 kinda looks like the tail of a certain Pokémon

[@smartestmoronx19]

What was the anime?

[@altus1226]

@@smartestmoronx19 the moment I saw it, I thought of Gurren Lagann, so maybe that

[@WDMurphy]

Aesthetically these are some of the best-looking fans I've seen on the show.

[@wolfblade]

I laughed immediately when he said it was named emotional damage. Steven He is really funny. If you watch a few of his videos you will get the context of what he means by it.

[@ihategoogle2567]

i was emotionally damaged when he didn't know about Steven He

[@La_sagne]

what does the fan design have to do with it though?

[@rocketman2tm]

First thing to do if you want a fan that can beat the cheater is arrange the rear shroud supports to align with the motor supports on the fan housing. The overdrive was a big offender of this. Side note, when doing the smoke test, can you get a shot directly behind the fan? Would be interesting to see how much rotation is in the airstream as it exits.

[@meetp.6232]

You should try using a super high torque high rpm motor from one of the previous videos to make the overdrive break the sound barrier :D

[@TheSpeckledProfessor]

Dang, i was really rooting for the over drive. I wonder if positioning the guides and supports for the parts in line with the original fan housing would have changed anything. Still, it was an excellent attempt!

[@wkbdgeorge]

Thinking the same thing!

[@static2430]

That's a good idea. I'll work that into the Mk2.

[@TlalocTemporal]

@@static2430 -- I wonder if the support bars could be made into stators.

[@static2430]

@@TlalocTemporal good idea

[@kristmadsen]

I think gears create too much friction . Maybe a belt would work better, just needs a good way to keep tension.

[@vetackstudios2778]

It looked like you were losing some air out the side of the shroud from the crack between it and the noctua frame. Would likely increase the airflow by simply sealing that tiny gap up with electrical tape.

[@CharlesVanNoland]

I'm gonna work on my hairdo and fashion to look more like a jet engine for that +5 charisma bump.

[@YOGURT1]

why did you shift from temp benchmarks to using CFM for the hierarchy. You cant always count on a higher CFM giving better results for cooling a radiator or tower cooler, maybe for a case fan.

[@TheRattleSnake3145]

Who said season 4 was to design for a radiator?

[@YOGURT1]

I suppose it probably isn't but how good these fans are at cooling whether as a case fan or a cooler would be more informative and show them in use. I could design an excellent cooler fan with good static pressure but it would rank much lower because it dosent have a high CFM.

[@static2430]

He literally said in s4e1 that he wanted CFM fans for something like a case fan.

[@YOGURT1]

@@static2430 didn't even see that.

[@stewievader4]

What about resin printing the gears instead? not having those rough edges from normal 3d printing might remove a lot of the friction present when spinning the gears.

[@NiazDokrat]

or even stick some grease in there lol. would help with noise as well

[@Emer8]

My interpretation on Emotional Damage : So some basic context first, the clip comes from the comedy skit video "When Asian is a Difficulty" by Steven He. He's just been roasted by a boss in a game called "Auntie" and gets the death screen Emotional Damage. He proceeds to yell it. The fan will cause you to experience "Emotional Damage" from deciding to print it in the first place and will lead a cascade wich causes you to question every sing one of your life decisions, therefore inflicting "EMOTIONAL DAMAGE" (I'm Asian I love this meme too much)

[@sycophant13]

Now we need a "Failure Management" fan blade

[@padoco73]

Or a half fan, because the other half...is running a BIZness. Steven is awesome.

[@michaelshifflett6597]

I noticed on the Overdrive there appeared to be leakage between the pieces, it might benefit from some bolts, nuts and gaskets added to the build.

[@turbonerd3075]

Would graphite be a better lubricant for the bearings in this scenario or no? Genuine question, I know there’s a reason for powered graphite but I can’t remember if it’s use case is for high speed or low speed.

[@TheRealAlpha2]

I'm no engineer but I can't imagine a situation where ground up solids are a better lubricant than actual liquid except if that liquid is more like grease.

[@bobod830_9]

Graphite is really good at friction reduction in a sliding environment. These rolling element bearings work better with oil or grease. Graphite or molebdenum would work well in a plain bushing.

[@clarencedube4853]

Congrats on the 200k well done🎉

[@AlexPrevost]

This is easily one of my most anticipated channels to watch every week. Makes me miss the yesteryears of Battle Bots and Robot Wars.

[@Sully948]

So glad you're back up and running. I love the fan showdown!

[@cavinrauch]

I love a floating face and hands showing us the new fans of episode 5

[@6688846993jester]

i love this series so much, i would love to season 5 use a super cheap tower cooler that uses 1 120mm fan and try to make it better. some kind of non brand name generic pos cooler and make it OK

[@iansabrewolfe]

I also want to see how the top performing fans do when stuffed into a Cheater or Overdrive shroud. That would make a heck of an end-of-season finale episode!

[@redallaround66]

wow bro, look at you killing it onscreen, keep it up man, im loving the travel were all taking with you, the transforamtion of your room is amasing, its looking better every showdown

[@larrysrandomness3237]

I'm surprised nobody has figured out how to make a fan that adjusts its angle of attack based on its speed

[@gideonrabson4600]

I don't think there would actually be any advantage to that. It adds weight and complexity. Instead, test it yourself, see what it runs at, and adjust based on that.

[@Steamrick]

Helicopters do that. At the size of a 120mm fan I don't see how you'd fit the necessary gears. Besides, you'd have to adjust according to the static pressure it's up against, not the speed.

[@larrysrandomness3237]

@@Steamrick I can design it in my head and could probably make it by hand, but I have issues designing things on a computer or on paper for that matter. It seems like doubling the hub depth and making a helical slot that ran a few millimeters into it, then connecting the blades with a T connector and a light spring would allow it to self adjust as centrifugal force built up. The spring also acts to lock the blades into the hub. Thus it could be made to increase static pressure as it speeds up. Weight would not be much different than other fans @Major Hardware has tested in the past.

[@MartinTheMad]

Every episode I mostly just look forward to that music with the smoke test. Love your work MJ

[@NicolasChapadosGirard]

Second to none had some .. emotional damage!

[@AdamWebb1982]

This whole series made me get a 3D printer and print loads of things but right now I’m experimenting with fan inserts that fill the gap between the fan tip and the casing. Seems to have improved my noctua 140 industrial fans since the gap was so wide. 0.8mm wall all away around fits just fine. Wish I had a real way of testing it though!

[@i1DERProductions]

Thanks for the explanation that you're wearing camo, I almost didn't notice :P I love watching tech vids with floating heads and hands! It makes it easier to focus on the tech! :D :P

[@RealSiViX]

13:57 - There is a good amount of air escaping between the fan casing and the shroud, I bet if there were a thin strip of rubber there to seal that up, it would move more air AND be quieter...

[@anthonybarker9123]

Considering the lack of a bell housing, the Second to None did amazingly well.

[@Odb718]

Yeah, he really should run every fan with it, and the ones that have them without it.

[@MadmanSilver]

I guess you could say that the Second To None took some Emotional Damage with that ranking.

[@debochando]

Hey man, I'm trying to build my own exhaustion system so these videos are very helpful and I really appreciate it! But definitely the best thing I got from the video was the song you play for the tests! Damn man, what a beat! Thanks for introducing it to me.

[@ghomerhust]

i really wonder how some of these gear drive fans would work if they were driven by something like a 3A Delta fan....

[@static2430]

Lack of torque is definitely the Achilles heel

[@glitterkitten9499]

@@static2430 A Noctua IPC 3,000 RPM fan would definitely have more torque

[@Drachenhebron]

i have some 2A delta's, and some 2A nidec, i am trying some basic designs, im afraid they will likely explode.

[@alewers3326]

Nothing to unexpected. Sound wise, if I had to listen to a fan all day, I find the Second to None rather pleasing. Emotional Damage is probably named after the results of listening to it for extended periods.

[@scottpearson9692]

Overdrive could win, it just needs more refinement. Plus, with a motor with as little torque as that, the blade angle needs to be lower so that it can spin faster. It might make less airflow at low rpm, but it would enable it to spin faster theoretically

[@static2430]

Oddly enough, I did test Ov3rdrive with shallower blades, but it didn't change the rpm much in geared mode and didn't push as much in direct.

[@antipainK]

"Second to none" being actually second be like: "Emotional Damage!"

[@miken966]

I hope you put that bearing into the the center of the sun-gear for testing... That would make a big difference in the efficiency of the gear mesh.

[@MyBrokenStuff]

Congrats on 200k! Love your channel.

[@thesoupin8or673]

Amazing as always! Love watching these

[@JebMillenderKicking]

You did not 🤣 "We're gonna start with Tom today,...." *HERTZ AD with Tom Brady* Perfect timing

[@nickmaille5951]

Emotional damage hurts. That fan design probably hurts, both to look at, and physicaly painful

[@duudester]

The floating head was awesome lol another great episode!!

[@Odb718]

How the heck do you figure the Second to None is 6th, and not 5th? The stats are the same as Falchion, except it spins faster and is quieter.... It's the better fan; If not, tied for 5th.

[@niteriderevo9179]

think he's going purely by difference between room-temp and core temps, not overly worried on rpm/quietness

[@thomas1699]

Looks like a lot of hot air (getting pushed around.) Lol 'Could not resist.

[@Lil_Puppy]

I like how, aside from DBa, the overdrive actually beats the A12x25 by 300rpm. Same output for 300 rpm less. I'm sure it could be optimized more to reduce weight to improve it's output.

[@10till4ish]

The tunes during the slowmo 🔥🔥🔥

[@Qui-9]

In my experience, the closer the thickness of a fan blade approaches zero, compared to its size, like literally soda can thickness, for a computer fan, the better. I'm not sure an aerofoil profile is advantageous, but I noticed that any thickness, at least near the edges, dramatically reduces flow and/or collimation, rather dragging the air more in a circle for a conical output. I notice an obvious difference in effect when I clean that thin ridge of dust off the leading edge of a room fan blade. The airflow does seem to be very sensitive to profile variations.

[@FrancoisMathieu]

Always enjoy your Fan Showdown. Keep up the good work!

[@AlexandarHullRichter]

I'm actually glad Micro Center is still around. I couldn't believe it when Fry's folded. It was like an immortal giant had been killed by the very thing it lived to facilitate.

[@AliasWilson]

the watercooler distro plate is amazing

[@Levi24Helvey]

I still think I like the temperature tests better, not sure if that's actually a better representation of how well the fan is working, but it made more sense to my Australopithecus brain.

[@Xoron]

Might be but it also makes each run alot more time intensive. Measuring airflow can be done within a minute while reaching a steady state on an air cooler might take 5-10 minutes, more like 45 on a closed water cooler.

[@ivonakis]

Given how close second to none went to overdrive, and how much simpler it was to print, I have an Idea for next season. How about competition for printing time - winner is the one who gets most cfm / seconds of printing. This way we can have much different designs claim the top - 2 blade , thinner or we can still get the top fans. Slice settings should be the same for everyone- inflill speeds retractions.

[@ALifeOfWine]

This would be hilarious. Dual prop body beasts everywhere.

[@KRAVER_]

Long time fan of the show, Grats on the 200K !! @Major Hardware

[@NathanielHatley]

I've been playing around with creating front and rear housings for some PC fans I'm using with a ULPA filter for my 3D printer. The filter needs really high static pressure (so a completely different type of fan should be used) but I just wanted to see what modifications I could make to what I've got laying around that might work for now. I am trying stacking fans as well to see if that helps any. I picked up a Scythe that rotates clockwise to see if contrarotating fans will make any difference. I also am planning on making my own 200mm fan and housing as I'd like a higher rpm model than what the market has available right now. I picked up a 140mm fan with a beefy hub motor that I'm going to pull out for the 200mm fan (I couldn't find a source for a fan motor on it's own). It'll be interesting to see how that turns out.

[@BobbyDigital6411]

Homie from Michigan! That Micro Center has been a staple in my diet for almost 20 years.

[@YOEL_44]

You should look for ceramic bearings and lube for the ultimate friction reduction, I used them on a 250W e-scooter engine, and the difference was somewhat noticeable.

[@tigheklory]

When you do the smoke test it would be nice if you had a piece of clear acrylic with a fan cutout that you mounted these fans to. I see a look of smoke being sucked around the exterior of the fans because of the pressure difference.

[@af0ulwind115]

Venturie... Build a fan housing with three or four venturie/funnels norrowing into the sides of it and then expanding out on the inside of it. Set up the fan to promote airflow in the direction of toward the heatsink. Be sure the funnels are wider in the entrance side of the outer housing and wide on the exit end of the inside of the housing. Sorry don't have a computer working now to try and CAD things...

[@seldoon_nemar]

the reason you swap lubricants in the bearings is that they are designed for the loading the bearing is rated for, in continuous use. we're playing around here and just need low friction not load capacity or longevity

[@tertiaryobjective]

I almost stopped by that exact microcenter when I was on a drive to pick up my 4th Thermaltake armor case.

[@epicDamnWin]

you got me with that WoW sound... right in the nostalgia center

[@No_Way_NO_WAY]

Geared fans lose so much power due to friction in the printed parts and abviously more speed means less torque to spin the fan in the first place. I would be intrested to see a overpowered fan showdown where the top 10 gets tested with a drone motor. which has much more power and much greater rpm... put all of them in a housing so you wont get hit by shrapnell though. ^^

[@hans-reinerjauch5719]

The second to none is a very good looking fan and provided a respectable result while remaining to be a “normal fan”.

[@Dripshadow1]

gotta say those prints look so damn clean. i remember how things where back in the days in S1 xD

[@ariesleo7396]

"emotional damage got last place" EMOTIONAL DAMAGE

[@industrialvectors]

Great episode, thanks

[@johnbeeck2540]

Congrats on 200K Subs!

[@brayoungful]

This was maybe the most pleasantly sounding set of fans you've yet tested.

[@Sudz3]

Oh Comon! Mine is so similar to second to none but also FAR better optimized for printing - Super light weight, 2 perimeters everywhere. Submitted it over a year ago

[@MrSolvalou]

Really liked all four / five fans, and the nod to Steven He is really appreciated

[@MRCLMCII]

The overdrive needed rubber gaskets to seal it to keep the air from escaping out of the sides. I bet it would improve.

[@aepceo1]

Emotional damage get's 15th: "EMOTIONAL DAMAGE!" There, you understand the meme now? lol the fan itself IS the meme!

[@LouisKleiman]

The outflow side of Overdrive was backwards. This caused those big support legs to not align with the Noctua support braces. I would expect a small increase in performance on a retest after flipping that part around.

[@tdtrecordsmusic]

As the seasons progress, the stakes keep getting higher & higher !

[@joenagel6644]

I think a battle of the best episode at the end of the season putting the top 3 against each other BUT the fans being re-printed in resin. Fans like the overdrive and the clock fan I think would help them perform even better. Would be super cool to see the difference between an FDM printed fan and a resin printed fan and if it makes a difference

[@joenuhhh]

I was wondering why it’d been so long since a fan showdown episode- then I saw the Elden Ring reference. We know where our boy was. I respect the grind. 😂

[@chubbyadler3276]

Im surprised how well the Emotional Damage fan did. I actually expected it to kick the air back out the front.

[@JoeGator23]

You should also mount these models like a ceiling fan and test them at scale speed for use as such. Someone might just have invented the next-gen ceiling fan and not know it. The design would be worth $ Millions.

[@danburrykerman6826]

Remember the Acceleron? Put that in the Cheater case and see if it beats the Cheater

[@RomanoPRODUCTION]

Major Hardware you have the best aerodynamic head to improve the fan air flow

[@AKStovall]

the overdrive gets the win over the cheater based on looks alone IMO. if I had a choice out of those 2, I'd take the overdrive because it looks way cooler. however if I absolutely needed pure, unadulterated airflow... the cheater of course wins the day.

[@static2430]

Thank you! I'm a little disappointed since my calculations put the CFM at 280 in direct mode. That was only theory though since I didn't have a CFM meter.

[@sebbes333]

*@Major Hardware* 13:16 It would be nice if you could fit the fan in an acrylic sheet or something (front side of fan), so the air "overflow" around the edge is prevented, and so we can see the actual suction of the fan. it doesn't have to be a huge sheet, just like some decimeter(s) around or something, still small enough to film from the side. Or maybe you can even use regular plastic cling-wrap (for food) or something, just stretched out enough to form an air barrier.

[@pootmahgoots8482]

I wanna see overdrive ran with a drone motor. For the giggles.

[@avejst]

great video as always 👍🙂

[@Ferrox_]

if i had access to machine tools id love to see some of these complex fans made of precision made gears and bearings, 3d printing is amazing but it can only go so far before machined metal outright wins

[@mr.pineapple7620]

This series is so FANcy

[@scrambledmandible]

I think your best bet for lubricant directly on the gears is going to be graphite lube, like the powdery stuff It works great on the pinewood derby cars

[@dannykyle7950]

I'm from Warren and used to shop at the same Microcenter. Cool to know you're from the area.

[@MrMCDiggles]

Royal Oak representing.

[@Mis73rRand0m]

Fan times to come

[@AlexandarHullRichter]

The emotional damage meme came from a video about how if 'Asian player' was a video game difficulty level much harder than the advanced expert level. When playing a video game in that difficulty level, emotional damage from an NPC would be fatal.

[@neutrallybiassed1330]

just a side note, viscosity is the ability to flow, kow viscosity substances, like pitch, and high viscosity substances, like ethanol.

[@patrickbelongea6896]

I would like to see you print a mirror of the t33 fan. Stack the original and the mirrored fan (on separate motors) so that they are moving air in the same direction, creating a counter rotating set of fans. Then put that stack into the cheater

[@NerdyWordyMatt]

Another fun showdown

[@fawazalfehaid3740]

With the sound of the gears quiet down if you printed the outer part of the gear in a rubbery plastic

[@arg8763]

There still needs to be two lists. One for fans that fully fit within the case of the Noctua in all dimensions, and one for fans that exceed these dimensions with the fans themselves or with additional straighteners and inlet bells. Until then I consider the list of little use.

[@TrollFaceTheMan]

Lubing the gears will also drastically help cut down on friction.

[@jamesheald567]

the smoke test music is the best

[@MaNNeRz91]

An idea for these geared designs maybe add some gritty tooth paste to the teeth of the gears (ironic) and use a drill to bed them in. Then clean them and oil them 👌