Andrew Bagby / Zachary Turner Homicides | Romantic Rejection Killer

This video answers the question: Can I analyze the case of the murders of Andrew Bagby and Zachary Turner?
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[@mytruecrimelibrary]

The guy who broke up with her when he found out about her past literally dodged a bullet.

[@jayuhoo4806]

5 bullets to be exact

[@mytoesarecold5555]

That tampon part was so 🤮

[@elphaba4674]

🤭

[@georgiak6017]

Like those people who encountered serial killers like Ted Bundy but managed to avoid death.

[@warrenvanwyk6249]

And then there's me... Sir Dumbass... I saw all the red flags but for some reason ended up marrying her. It ended very badly, however I'm (obviously) still alive. :-)

[@kathymack3791]

“Dear Zachary” is the most heartbreaking documentary I’ve ever seen. I don’t know how Andrew’s parents found the strength to go on.

[@mrsmacca126]

Hello, Kathy! May I please know where to find the documentary? 🙏

[@DottieMinerva]

It’s so infuriating 😞

[@Mountlougallops]

Grace under fire. Two remarkable human beings and I agree. Almost unspeakably heartbreaking. Those poor people. And poor Zachary. Admirable people. I bet Andrew was a great guy too.

[@DottieMinerva]

@@Mountlougallops the fact that they had to even be around her is SO wrong. What is wrong with that system for victimizing these people even more?

[@Milkugh]

Honestly I cried a little just watching this video because it brought back all the details of the story.

[@AndriaBieberDesigns]

Just a reminder. Never go back and meet the abuser. They try to get you to meet them again, don’t go. I cannot believe they let this woman out of jail.

[@PearlFirexx]

Yep they always try to lure you in and guilt trip you into speaking with him. Never give them another second of your time. I've made that mistake before with an abuser but at least those mistakes didn't cost me my life as a result. Pretty lucky.

[@carolnahigian9518]

Like Dorothy Straten Story - Waste of all her potential for a wasted life.

[@witchcerridwen]

yeah i just dont understand why they would go back.they know something bad will happen.

[@qei431.]

Well she's a woman so let her go

[@verytrusfrated]

Or at the bare minimum bring witnesses with you, never go alone

[@Gallop4Me]

Never, never meet a crazy ex anytime or any place, no matter how logical they may seem. If you must meet them, go to a crowded area or a police station. Meeting them alone so "you can talk" most likely will be the last conversation you ever have.

[@MrsDannunzio]

YES! In this day and age, with Skype, Zoom, phones, webcams, there is NO REASON to talk in person.

[@gimmeyourankles]

@@MrsDannunzio or even better, don't contact them in any way. People online-stalk people now days, i think is better to cut all ties asap, block them in all social media so they don't know where you at, the people you talk to etc.

[@francesbernard2445]

Would you believe that a psychologist who was educated in the U.S. that was hired by family court where I live here in Canada about 18 years ago now kept on insisting that I allow my soon to be ex-husband to pick me up for us both to attend his office together after I told him he had a history of violence which included a road rage incident which led to him getting charged? At the time father's rights groups had a list of them they would insist upon or none.

[@mytoesarecold5555]

Totally. I had an ex that wanted to see me “just one last time.” Oh, hell no. Go look up pictures of me on fb, or something.

[@polarbearsrus6980]

Exactly! And, never use your ex to have sex with after you break up, that is so stupid!!!

[@thesouringgentleman]

My goal in life is to never do anything that inspires a Dr. Grande video.

[@mrsmacca126]

Hear, hear

[@gimmeyourankles]

Same, can you imagine having a video in this channel dedicated to your case? Scary, but i wonder how Dr. Grande would describe me 😅

[@s.ormgamalson6489]

Like Chris D'elia's comedy 😆

[@mytoesarecold5555]

Some aren’t bad. The Freddie Mercury and Fred Rogers ones were good. Maybe you just have to be named Fred to get a good Dr Grande analysis.

[@mariemarie2888]

It's the great humour and sarcasm we all know and love. As long as it's regarding someone else because Dr Grande has the best one liners ,❤️

[@Scotkhuncap]

Judge's are untouchable.. That Judge is directly responsible for the baby's death. Thank you for the presentation and analysis.

[@tanjagroen7368]

Exactly!

[@USALibertarian]

"She killed a specific person so she can get out." Ummm...no, she killed anyone whatsoever therefore needs to be in prison ASAP. WTF?

[@chad3232132]

I almost feel like in cases like this the judge bears some level of criminal responsibility.

[@marymartindale884]

The judge made absolutely no sense. The fact that she specifically killed the person she wanted dead should not have been a reason to say she wasn't dangerous.

[@Normaschthewanderer]

That wasn't the final sentence. It was just until there was a verdict. It's still asinine the judge did it considering how much of a flight risk she was, and forcing Zachary into her custody without considering she might be a threat to him.

[@marymartindale884]

@@Normaschthewanderer I know it wasn't the final sentence, but for a judge to literally say that a person is not a danger to the public in general because she's a good shot and killed the guy she was aiming at is ludicrous.

[@Normaschthewanderer]

@@marymartindale884 I don't disagree. It was asinine that she thought it was alright to let her go on bail.

[@horrortackleharry]

I don't think that judge would be very tough on organised crime. I mean, the mob only ever put hits out on specific people, not random ones- so they're always golden, right?

[@redram5150]

Well put, lol

[@dead_vibes]

Facts

[@Ruth78620]

I cried for most of Dear Zachary that Canadian judge has blood on her hands too. Andrews parents are incredible human beings.

[@deborahwestendorf9486]

This was so heartbreaking I read the book. I cried a lot!

[@BeckBeckGo]

You know what I can’t figure out here. Why random murder is somehow less serious than killing someone you know. For one thing, killing someone you’re not close to is probably a lot easier to do. At least emotionally. It’s easier to get away with because you have no immediately apparent connection to the victim. Which means you can do it without apprehension more times. And you know who else kills strangers? Serial killers and mass murderers. What the fuck was this judge basing his reasoning on? It’s Newfoundland. And we canadians have jokes about Newfies all over the place. But we don’t actually believe they’d ever do anything as stupid as this judge did.

[@Ruth78620]

@@BeckBeckGo that judge killed Zachary as sure as that phsyco Shirley did. Surely they did background checks on her and found out she had 4 other children she gave to their fathers because she basically couldn't be arsed to be a mother. I ugly cried my way through that documentary for the sheer sadness for Andrews parents and I've never wanted to get mt hands on someone as much as I wanted to get my hands on Shirley! And im a very peaceful person. I hope that judge was fired.

[@gerardsanders3225]

It gets worse. Not only does she still hold her post, but she was referred for the Canadian Supreme Court. She's also got some comparably baffling judgements under her belt.

[@crybaby3710]

I went from smiling to crying in less than 30 seconds (I went into the doc not knowing what happened other than an adult man was killed) I've never had a doc have SUCH a twist after a precious moment. broke my heart for them, such good people.

[@RolandHutchings1928]

Compelled to comment as she taught me in high school in small town in Newfoundland , graduated 93 , she was Shirley Caines back then . Her subjects were Chem and Bio , say on Monday we had class she may be in perfect mood all great , next day she could be totally opposite human being , we as students were on eggshells , it was bizarre to see and understand as 16-17 yr old , cause she was out teacher . Anyway think she left 95 , go back school and become doctor in St Johns . When all this happened , we were all shocked , but not surprised due to her irrational behaviour we witnessed years before . Newfoundland Canadian government failed Andrews parents and ultimately Zachary .

[@golovastik.mp3]

very interesting, thank you so much for sharing!

[@MrsDannunzio]

WOW! I forgot that she was a teacher. That's terrifying! So interesting to see your perspective during that time. She seemed to be very smart, but so disturbed. I'm sorry that you had to go through that.

[@nicoles7800]

Thanks so much for sharing your experience. I find this case devastating. Beyond sad.

[@rishaa682]

just like they failed with gabriel wartman👍

[@francesbernard2445]

Thanks for sharing.

[@anlawrence1974]

Judge to Shirley Turner: I’m going to release you from jail because you killed a specific person therefore you’re not a threat to other random people. Me: What?! Other imprisoned murderers: WHAT?!!

[@maxklemberer3237]

Its incredible.

[@elavke5441]

Judge should and disbarred for deraliction of duty

[@thezyklonbeast]

Nah this is Canada... Par for the course there

[@nealkelly9757]

Canada rewards criminality

[@jasonmichael3676]

It's Canada....you get a free murder or 2.

[@DottieMinerva]

Canadian justice system is so unbelievably lenient. They have blood on their hands.

[@heatherbukowski2102]

I mean, they literally released a man who ate a guy on a bus free to the public, so. It sure seems that way.

[@nealkelly9757]

Leftist paradise, coming soon to America

[@stephenbrand5661]

@@nealkelly9757 The United States has the biggest prison population on the planet and much higher rates of violent crime than Canada so we could learn a thing or two from that "leftist paradise."

[@clintthuong6448]

So is Australia’s.

[@heatherbukowski2102]

@@nealkelly9757 Hopefully! Canada def has its problems but they're doing a much better job than we are. We should take notes from other countries and find a better balance.

[@wigglebolt4079]

“The man broke up with her, Mostly because of the murder part” 😆

[@Ron4885]

That would do it for me too. :) (a very dangerous person that looks sweet)

[@annieportier3584]

It's for sure a game changer!!

[@Throatzillaaa]

lol I love when he says that... "Mostly because the dying/murder part"

[@mrsmacca126]

Also, she never cut her toenails

[@marthasalter405]

I just wish he had cooperated with the police, maybe her bail would have been revoked

[@leximari]

David & Kathleen are amazing people, parents, and grandparents. They created an amazing son lost far too soon.

[@francesbernard2445]

I like your phrase, "-created an amazing son-".

[@NicoleJacksonnoj100]

They are so awesome. Besides knowing how tragic the documentary unfolded for their child and grandchild, it was a honor to get to know those two heros.

[@chad3232132]

David probably wishes every day that he'd actually killed Shirley as he considered doing. If he had, Zachary would still be alive. I still can't get over the judge's logic. Most are targeting a specific person. So by this logic wouldn't nearly everyone in prison for murder be deemed "not a danger" to society? Makes no sense.

[@christinehutchins123]

@@chad3232132 , yes, and his wife could have raised the baby. Not a good option, but that little boy would be here today.

[@joerudnik9290]

Too bad they were too honest and too accommodating; they should have taken the baby and given him to someone to hide.

[@nicolestewart2843]

I absolutely love seeing doctor grande subscriber count shoot up. He deserves a million and I can't wait to see him get there.

[@therealbs2000]

Grande to the moon

[@Ruby0465]

I concur!

[@vosaemify]

His narratives are made of gold. Borderline comedic genius.

[@ennuiii]

@@vosaemify missed opportunity to go with "borderline comedian disorder"

[@jlllx]

he deserves what he gets.

[@Seldarius]

Im so incredibly sad for grandparents who try everything to protect children from their murderous parents and still fail in the end. Its horrible and so senseless.

[@zappawench6048]

Poor David and Kathleen had their hearts ripped apart twice by that bitch (sorry, but there's no other word for her). Dear Zachary the documentary was equal parts heart-rending and rage-inducing.

[@marymartindale884]

You are correct, there is no better word to describe her

[@Lulu-ut9pv]

I personally think bitch is too nice of a word her... Maybe super insane mega bitch

[@AFR0MAMBA]

@@marymartindale884 the grandparents called her the devil. that’s more fitting

[@marymartindale884]

@@AFR0MAMBA good point. That definitely fits better

[@RowanWarren78]

Zappa, absolutely agreed.

[@internetperson9121]

If the genders were reversed, bail never would have been granted and custody of the child would have never been permitted.

[@marymartindale884]

Very true

[@Lulu-ut9pv]

100% if she was a man, she will be in jail still! The culture within the law and police system tend to not like women in prison or being procuquited

[@kotaro1483]

Unfortunately, my dad was let out on bail despite being in for 100,000 on child rape for sexually abusing me. Can confirm it happens with men too 😅 They could know he's a sexual predator that was accused before. They could know he's dangerous and was abusive to his partner. And still give him joint custody over me and my brother. Then let him out on bail when he gets arrested for it. The system is broken even all these years later. You're lucky if you never have to get involved with it

[@OrionSauce]

And white 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@TattooedMay]

We are talking about Canada. The same thing would have happened. Over here, we love to give violent criminals more rights than everyone else. It's a clown of a country.

[@blazefairchild465]

Thank you for covering this topic Dr.Grande , sadly Judges release children to unstable parents way to often. I think Zachary and his father would be alive today had the Judge gotten a forensic mental assessment of this killer. This is the documentary's that is one of the saddest I have ever seen. The fact that she had to take the baby was the sickest thing I have ever seen.

[@ChristinePerez903]

What a sad story!! All because someone told her no, Andrew and Zachary lost their lives. Great video Dr Grande!!

[@shicadelic]

As a mom of a toddler, this story breaks my heart.

[@katielady1686]

As a human, it breaks mine as well.

[@co9971]

the documentary will make you cry for sure

[@mytoesarecold5555]

@@co9971 - I cried.

[@zackc.8015]

@@katielady1686 It is on a different level when you're a parent.

[@marys3127]

“Her psychiatrist posted the majority of her bail.” What???!!!

[@baldanders8717]

I read that he was charged 10 grand and given psychiatric counseling as punishment. Not fired/disbarred/removed from his field. The failures and evils committed by shirley were tragic but perhaps, given her nature, to be expected, and what's more they had the potential to be addressed and stopped. The failures and wrongs from the canadian justice system, however, are mindblowing.

[@JoeinSeattle.]

I like the fancy myself a documentary aficionado. This was hands-down the most brutal, disturbing and infuriating documentary I’ve ever seen. It’s a doozy of an tragic story .

[@cessxiii]

RIGHT?! i watched it with no prior knowledge at ALL, and couldn't believe the twist.. this was about 10 years ago. And the case STILL stays with me.

[@JoeinSeattle.]

@@cessxiii Same here my friend. The wife and I stumbled on it one night . It wrecked us for weeks.

[@alyssajessie4779]

Where can this documentary be found?

[@JoeinSeattle.]

@@alyssajessie4779 Free on Tubi or Amazon prime. Rentable everywhere else

[@andreakoroknai1071]

yeah, I hope that judge that let shirley out has a ton of remorse. what happens in a case like this? are there any consequences for the judge? it's basically their fault.

[@joerudnik9290]

This situation is a huge testament to the fact that being ‘right’ and ‘honest’ is not enough. The grandparents should have sought out one of those networks that hide people ( especially children) from psychotics and abusers. The murdered son should have never met with her alone. The family should have investigated her past behavior right from the beginning.

[@teodorabasta5813]

Yeah if he Just ghosted her this wouldnt happen. He was nice and he got killed.

[@lornaginetteharrison7168]

I usually leave somewhat lighthearted comments in response to these videos, appreciating the good doctor’s sense of humour; _mostly_ of late - if I’m honest! - revolving around the configuration of the plant/cacti cast of characters in the Dr. Todd Grande Extended Universe! Not today. 'Dear Zachary' remains one of the *MOST* emotionally powerful documentaries I’ve ever seen. Thank you for covering this absolutely gut-wrenching case so well. Andrew’s parents - Zachary’s grandparents - David & Kathleen Bagby, are truly inspirational people.

[@Dvrynnn]

That documentary had me bawling my eyes out

[@kathymack3791]

Me, too. It absolutely ripped my heart out and tore it to pieces.

[@mrsmacca126]

Where can I find the doc, please?!?!?!

[@lynncrf]

Same. I was in floods of tears and have never cried like that at any film/documentary.

[@sarah2.017]

@@mrsmacca126 I saw it on Netflix, but if it isn't there, see if you can get a DVD from your local library. I should add that I knew absolutely nothing about the story before I watched it, besides that it involved a custody dispute.

[@Ruth78620]

@@sarah2.017 i was the same and it broke my heart. I was a bawling mess. I found it on KZbin its incredibly sad but an important watch.

[@nursejessie8149]

Dear Zachary was one of the most tragic, depressing documentaries ever made yet it was incredibly well made. I’ve spread my misery after watching with everyone I could. 10/10 recommend.

[@nicole71047]

🤔 what is this world?

[@WhoTookMyMirr]

That documentary should be mandatory viewing for people going into law school.

[@mariakelly1059]

I've heard about this documentary a few times over the years, but I've never been able to get myself to rent the DVD and watch it.

[@lynncrf]

I don't think anyone ever gets past *that* moment in the film without being viscerally affected. Wow, just wow.

[@AedanGUnit]

These grandparents showed other worldly self control. Incredibly sad story.

[@Chefgrlangel]

I cried after watching the documentary. She's a fn monster.

[@ARCADE_EXE]

Dear Zachary, it's a Double Murder-Suicide. Shirley did it...

[@masoncaldwell872]

Didn’t realize it was a “who done it?”

[@AngelOne11]

@@masoncaldwell872 lolz.... love your reply.

[@meowmeowmeowbarf]

Dear Zachary is one of the best films I'll never watch again. It hit so hard.

[@alexandrahaney8733]

I was in senior year of high school when my Film and Media teacher asked me to watch Dear Zachary to see if it was suitable for the class. I was horrified and came back and told him the intense impact it had on me, he ended up showing it to class to show the impact media can have on our emotions. Nearly the whole class was crying.

[@dylanhicks48]

Dear Zachary made me cry more than any other film, book, song, etc. Andrew's parents are such genuine and beautiful people and it is tough to watch them suffer like that.

[@cottontails9003]

Good morning Dr Grande. That woman, besides being a stalker.,murder was pure evil. There's absolutely no reason to kill an innocent baby. Could it also be revenge against the grandparents. Great analysis. The topic was a woman of evil. Thank you Dr Grande.

[@reesemorgan2259]

Watched "Letters to Zachary" years ago. It is one of the saddest stories I've ever seen. The righteous fury of the Grandfather I remember to this day. It's the sort of thing I'm glad I watched, but I couldn't watch it again.

[@christievanderlaan7575]

Is this different than “Dear Zachary”?

[@Haseo92]

@@christievanderlaan7575 it's the same, the full title has the word "letter" in it

[@LMCEK]

My tears started about half an hour into that film and didn't stop until after it was over. God bless the victims and family.

[@leximari]

This story is so sad, the documentary broke my heart. Shirley was truly truly evil. RIP to Andrew & Zachary, thank you for your take Dr Grande 🕊🤍

[@katielady1686]

I’m glad you covered this one. Such a tragedy that should have been prevented (in part) by our judicial system.

[@Ruby0465]

This story destroyed me. 😢😢😢😢 One of the best, saddest documentaries I’ve ever seen. Edit: Shirley Turner 😡😡😡

[@meverly4133]

Probably the first documentary I saw that absolutely wrecked me. I'm not sure anything has of yet come close.

[@roxannemoser]

Me too. The used tampon and photo of herself. She was avery sick woman, AND she was a doctor herself? Oh my, I remember Dear Zachary. My heart broke into bits. He sure did look like his dad.

[@hedleybutler9706]

If this doc doesn't leave you absolutely wrecked afterwards you have no soul. 😭🤬🥺

[@Ruby0465]

And Andrews parents were the most sweetest, gentle, loving, nurturing souls I’ve never met. They loved Zachary, they uprooted their whole lives for him. Crazy Shirley could have just dropped Zachary off and said farewell. Poor Zachary 😢, Poor Andrew, 😢.

[@TheCommentQween]

I need a shirt with the acronym for OCEANS on it Maybe with a cactus on it.

[@gloriamontgomery6900]

Make sure it is an Oxford cloth shirt

[@ericroman2403]

These are the worst types of people. The fake and superficial with a narcissistic charm are too dangerous to engage with

[@rishaa682]

they are everywhere in society and its dangerous to call them out.

[@mertyagmur5487]

That Judge Shirley had chose the wrong profession, putting him in charge of keeping silence in a library would be more fitting for someone so gullible

[@darksideofthemoon2348]

Dear Zachary. .one of the saddest documentaries that I've seen...he would have been a great dad❤

[@polarbearsrus6980]

Men should consider this and the Jodi Arias case before they decide to continue to use a woman for sex after the break up.

[@aplusrecommends9406]

FACTS. I was so hurt and horrified.

[@Jujudeze22]

I ugly cried at the end. It’s been several years now, but I still can’t muster up a second viewing.

[@Lesnooch]

I do not usually advocate for judges being held liable for bad verdicts because they are human and can make mistakes. But in this case the judge should have been held directly responsible. She is a despicable woman who has no business in the profession.

[@annb9422]

Thank you for your excellent analysis. I have to say this is one of the most disturbing and heartbreaking documentaries I have ever seen. The twists and turns are so unbelievable but unfortunately true.

[@barfymann362]

Dear Zachary was a documentary which absolutely gutted me, I don't think I ever wanted to watch it again. It was intense.

[@easttowest5984]

Don't fall little cactus! This doc was heartbreaking. His parents are incredible people for withstanding the loss they've endured.

[@nancylowe2692]

I just saw your comment..."don't fall, little cactus". Where did you get that saying from? It sounds familiar. Is it a line from a song or poem?

[@1313MockingBird_Lane]

I got sick to my stomach about what happened to Zachary, just awful...Andrew's death isn't lost on me at all, it's just a mess and a tragedy

[@debbierose882]

Thank you for covering this Dr Grande. Very disturbing story😥

[@KarkatVantasBitches]

One of the saddest documentaries ever. When the narrator spoke about Zachary's death and started to tear up I burst into full on sobs.

[@doktor_ghul]

I had a friend who became involved with a manipulative BPD monster much in the same way that Andrew Bigby became enmeshed in the spider's web of Shirley. While watching DEAR ZACHARY, memories of Brittney came flooding back, and everything that she put my friend through screamed at me while watching the documentary. I am now out of my friend's life because of Brittney, and I believe I dodged a bullet, because my friend was destroyed by his own personal Shirley, and while I could not stop her, at least I was not destroyed by her as he was. If I am ever put in a situation akin to that again, personal restraint will not enter into it. Zachary's grandfather restrained his rage. I respect that. I weep for Zachary and Andrew. All I can say about Shirley is...not suitable for KZbin.

[@thereal4113]

Surely it is common knowledge: Never anger a woman named Shirley!!! Thank you Dr. Grande 🪴🪴🪴🪴

[@kayleewatkins2561]

Shirley it's common knowledge ;) and don't call me shirley!

[@patspinello1693]

I have watched "Dear Zachary" more than I like to admit. Each time a bawl. I cry for the unbelievable loss. I then get angry on how a system can't see the warning signs.

[@clarissa8477]

I’ve never heard of this story before, it’s incredibly sad. She had already stalked at least two men, killing one of them. She never should have been released by that judge. There was obviously a pattern of behavior...

[@muellerphyllis]

I’m so glad you covered this case. These are the things about life I just don’t understand. Thank you Dr. Grande:)

[@nicolestewart2843]

Dear Zachary is a documentary that really got inside me and has stayed there ever since. I'm interested in true crime and I watch a lot of things about every aspect of it and I read a lot of books and what not and out of all of that it is one of two documentaries that have just really really stuck with me and stayed with me. I didn't know what I was getting into when I started watching and I probably sat there for about an hour afterwards and silence just trying to really come to terms with what I had watched and what had happened to that poor man in his child

[@katyr2382]

I hadn't heard of this case (I'm in the UK). How utterly heartbreaking

[@SlugfestWizard]

Such a tragic/preventable story. Shame on the judge who allowed her to walk the streets after committing murder.

[@PajamaJazama]

Ironic that those at the top of the justice system, judges, rarely have to face justice. In cases like this, the judges involved should be sentenced to prison as well.

[@nessiequin]

This is the saddest documentary I’ve ever seen and I see a lot of them. I was sobbing at the end. Thanks for the thorough analysis. Can you cover Demo Lovato Big Chill controversy, your thoughts on the “California Sober” concept and her new documentary? I would love to hear your thoughts.

[@suedoenym4055]

I live in St. John's and ran into Shirley Turner just a couple of days before she killed Zachary. There were case updates nightly on the news and it was pretty clear that she was using her son to toy with the Bagbys. They were on the news constantly advocating for their grandson, pleading with the government to listen. Nobody in power ever did. I have a daughter who was born around the same time as Zachary so it was hitting close to home. I wasn't sure if it was her at first (her red coat was the giveaway), until she looked at me from behind those glasses. We had a bit of a glare down, and she broke eye contact first. I'm glad I could let that woman know that there was at least one person who had nothing but utter contempt for her before she left the world. Rest in peace little man, you deserved so much better.

[@RosesareAllie]

You handled it better then I would have! I would of went off on her and wouldn’t of been nice about it.

[@thinktwice8860]

Thanks so much for another great analysis of a terrible case, Dr Grande. This shows that mental illness is not covered specifically with professions like: judges and medical boards. The general public should be taught about dangerous red flags starting in grade school. Further, there should be a well maintained mechanism for culling these people out, attempting to help them, and making a well informed decision as to how their lives should progress. To wait for voluntary action from narcissistic people is to court disaster.

[@yl5757]

I saw somewhere that in a violent relationship, the abuser who threatens suicide is more likely to kill the other person.

[@krisinpa8302]

Watched the documentary and read David's book, "Dance with the Devil". So tragic and sad. I can't imagine how David and Kate have managed to live their lives after the murders of their only son and grandson. I thought the reason Shirley committed suicide was because she knew that she was going to prison for the rest of her life; killing the baby was her way of having the last word with David, Kate and anyone else who'd ever loved Andrew and Zachary.

[@thomasdoubting]

Her diagnosis? EVERYTHING!

[@MusicLeeSarah]

READ THE BOOK BY DAVID BAGBY DANCE WITH THE DEVIL this is a book he was writing while Kurt Kueene was doing Dear Zachary a letter to a son about his father. The book of the little deeper into some really good parts of dear Zachary. They compliment each other perfectly! Ironically I was just watching this documentary again this morning as I have watched it literally it's got to be going on 500 times. I'm from St Louis and have met members of the bagby family but I didn't know that was them until the documentary and then I kind of put two and two together but there's just something about David and Kate that is very calming and if I'm having a really bad day and I'm having trouble going to sleep I'll put the documentary on and their voices soothes me as does Kurts

[@sarahalbers5555]

My name is also Sarah Lee, but Lee isn't my last name So howdy

[@ApolloVIIIYouAreGoForTLI]

Years ago I had ran out of Documentaries to watch & put this on without reading anything........Had no idea what I was about to watch. Broke my f**king heart by the end of it.

[@QCDoggies]

I prefer the crime analysis over the celebrity stuff, well done Doctor! This was so horrific. Might make folks think twice before jumping in the hay with a superficial, charming stranger...

[@LMoon20]

This was such a horrendous and heartbreaking documentary. My heart completely broke for his parents.

[@vitdmilk5466]

That last statement is so true. That’s why the saying “follow your heart” can be dangerous.

[@elainearchibald9020]

Wow! Thanks Dr. Grande for this analysis! I heard about the story previously but didn't know that she ended her life and her poor little boys as well!! She had major behavior problems!! That judge should have been reprimanded for releasing her from prison. Those poor grandparents must have gone through an extreme nightmare!! Sad event! TFS

[@meverly4133]

Number 1 on my list of excellent documentaries that I never want to watch again. Seriously, I'd rather suffer through The Cove.

[@moongod5013]

The documentary was the biggest punch in the gut I've ever experienced. Bagby seemed like such a vibrant and likable person, and Zachary was so young. A fantastic analysis.

[@kimako8528]

Borderline best describes to Shirley. Difficulties in relationships especially in romantic.

[@reingp]

How does this judge feel when knowing their actions indirectly caused the death of the baby? Yes, their incompetence is to blame, shameful.

[@catherineb.]

"Dear Zachary" is one of the most infuriating documentaries I have ever seen.

[@renee1961]

My heart Breaks for Zachary, and Andrew, and his Family!! The Pain is Unimaginable!💔💔💔💔💔🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏 Zachary is with Andrew.♥️♥️♥️♥️. she is in a different place. Thank You, Dr. Grande.

[@hollyjillrowsell3744]

This is one of the most heartbreaking stories I have heard in a while. The system really dropped the ball in this case. I agree with you and the fact that she was a doctor, unfortunately, allowed her to "get away" with anti-social behavior more than the average person. I know it's just a little thing, but St. Anthony and St. John's are, indeed in Canada, however; the province in which these places are located is Newfoundland and Labrador. Just like Ontario, Alberta, Manitoba, etc. Newfoundland and Labrador is a province of Canada. Just putting that out there as I often hear people refer to places like St. John's being referred to as St. John's, Canada instead of St. John's, Newfoundland and Labardor Canada. I really do enjoy your videos and I try to listen to a new one at least once a day! Thank you for all the work you put into these interesting and informative narratives . Cheers!

[@auroram296]

Dr. Grande has such an accessible way to tell every analysis without the need of prior knowledge to the topics he covers. Truly enjoyable as always 👏🏼

[@TheValhalla1989]

Reminds me of the tales from the crypt episode starring Demi Moore where she marries a rich psychopath. “If I can’t have you nobody can.”

[@berryreadable]

Yeah. Omg, I remember they made her husband so ugly, lol. Good comparison

[@steppy3736]

Canadian courts screwed up! This woman had a long, long history of being unstable and unable to care for a child. She didn't have custody, nor visitation of her 4 previous children.

[@crescentmoonchild4031]

She got away with so much because she had an education but we should look past this type of respect because the only difference is being able to complete an education nothing else. This is not a measure of character or integrity. So many professional people especially doctors think they are different or better because they are doctors. Pride goes before a fall

[@dappadappz9374]

This video is so far very underrated in my opinion.. I really felt for something beyond your words in this video. powerful stuff and you deliver it with such respect and grace Dr Grande.. thank you 🇬🇧

[@maureeningleston1501]

TRAGIC !!! I remember watching the documentary and being filled with sadness and fury, I hope that "JUDGE" does a lot of soul searching.

[@susanl8478]

I can't imagine... I would resign and live the rest of my life questioning everything and be devastated by shame and grief !!!! It was 'all in a day's work for him' ... and then ... Wow. I couldn't live with myself.

[@maureeningleston1501]

@@susanl8478 Agree, I would feel I had blood on my hands.

[@lipglosslover09]

The documentary about this case is excellent and heartbreaking, loved your analysis on everything!

[@mrparlanejxtra]

The judges involved here completely lost perspective and had no regard for the potential of a murderer.

[@jeffwalther3935]

This case validated the old (observation) saying: "Hell hath no fury like a (some) women scorned." Does it not? Salute to the Bagby's as TRUE loving and exemplary parents and a family. The Bagby's are magnificent HEROES. Rest in Perpetual Memoriam, Peace and Glory, Dr. Bagby and Zachary Bagby. You are missed.

[@RominaJones]

If you are a danger to one you are a danger to all because your angry can take you to such a place where you will harm another. Outside of defending yourself or others, that one is capable of such extreme reaction, premeditated harm, or murder, then in my estimation that makes one unstable and unpredictable and thus dangerous. Just really can't understand the judge's decision.

[@wlp4368]

“Dear Zachary” broke my heart 🥺

[@reythejediladyviajakku6078]

If you ask me, those exes should have reported her when she was stalking him

[@Anais2002pr]

I'm here after watching the Dear Zachary documentary. It completely wrecked me. Please, please, please. Never meet up with people who are abusive, especially in isolated areas and with someone who was a horrible person. I will never forget this story. I hope I never have to learn about another situation like this.

[@SableRain]

Every time I hear about this story I cry. How could you kill your own baby? I feel awful for Zachary and his grandparents.

[@lakemonster10]

I understand that innocent until proven guilty is a necessary standard to have, but it just amazes me how a murderer is allowed to walk free this easily.

[@freya7084]

While watching the docu I couldn’t help but think she sounded like a textbook case for BPD

[@edenstanding8676]

... This is the first time Dr. Grande made me full on bust out crying. I never saw the documentary. I had no idea where the story was going. Wow. Really strikingly heartbreaking stuff. Smart analysis. Hard

[@christiromaro7224]

Thank you for your insight into this tragic story, this woman was so toxic , I pity anyone that had to deal with her, except that judge, they were as bad as her

[@SunniDae333]

The entire video I was waiting for you to introduce this Zachary guy. When you showed the baby, my heart sank. She took their son *and* their grandson. How horrific

[@erigerontriteleia]

The Newfoundland judge (Gail Welsh) who let the accused murderer (Dr. Shirley Turner) out on bail and also let her took custody of her toddler son should have had meted some consequences too failing to prevent the toddler’s death at the hands of his mother. Gail Welsh was indirectly responsible for the toddler’s death. The doctor must be master manipulator for disguising her dangerous stalker personality and murderous intent. It’s hard to imagine the struggles David and Kate’s Bagby must have gone through losing their only child and grandchild both to murders by the same woman.

[@Vonriga]

I am a fairly gruff middle aged man. I have never been a father. I am not very emotional. I have been described as cold. I watched "Dear Zachary" and at the end I was weeping. I never want to watch it again. The perp needs to be remembered for the malignant narcissist monster she is and cursed every time her name is recalled. Shirley Jane Turner, I don't believe in an afterlife, but I wish there was a hell you could inhabit and be tormented for eternity. When you died, I hope that even though you took Zachary with you, you felt frightened and alone.