The Most Common Mistakes Commander Players Make | Untitled Magic: The Gathering Podcast #2

[@TolarianCommunityCollege]

Hey everyone, would mean a great deal if you took a minute to click and watch my newest video, "Merfolkless Merfolk | A $50 Budget Pioneer Mono Blue Tempo Deck" here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/boPGkGqXq9Jol80

[@Theoneinchargehere]

I

[@madamthulhu7856]

sanguine bond exquisite blood does not win it stalls.

[@ConsoleCleric]

4:55 - Fail to consider your deck's power level. 6:45 - Rely too much on your Commander. 10:15 - Cards that become "no text" without your Commander. 10:40 - Run too many "interactive" cards. 24:40 - Hating on the player who played to win at the right time. 29:00 - Fail to think about your turn before it happens. Slow rolling. 35:20 - Not providing free information.

[@dallinbernhardt4540]

You are the hero we need, but not the one we deserve. Thank you.

[@TheSimmus]

[@cameronwise-maas5610]

Kinda makes me realize that most of these weren't really about mistakes in term of incorrect build/play that cause people to lose, so much as interpersonal mistakes that make the game less pleasant.

[@calebserna]

Cliff notes are great

[@OnyxANZ]

Oh is that all. I thought it would be about interesting things

[@Totescolin]

"1-3 cards that don't have text unless your commander is in play" *Looks at my Feather Deck* Not you, none of the rules apply to you.

[@MichaelMoore99]

There are times where I build a deck without even considering who the Commander would be and then just slap one on at the end based on colors.

[@Totescolin]

@@MichaelMoore99 that's how I Imagen most Golgari lists get made.

[@iaminevitable4529]

My Feather deck floats without feather on board because all my spells are draws so its a card for a card, or win cons. Thats my whole deck

[@Totescolin]

@@iaminevitable4529 drawing multiple cards in boros feels like cheating, cheating feels like winning. Feather is the best.

[@Daeyel]

Same with a Zada pump deck. There are reasons why we play Lightning Greaves type cards.

[@sindur3446]

I played in that pod with you Professor! I was the Glissa the Traitor. I was happy for you getting your combo, but I was bumbed out because the player next you resolved a possibility storm which made the removal I was going to use in my hand worthless to stop you lol.

[@TolarianCommunityCollege]

Haha! Good times, friend.

[@Slo-Mode]

I have low vision and the fact people don't even question me when I ask about what is on the board makes me feel comfortable playing the game even with strangers.

[@michaelgriffith7033]

That's good to hear. I am partially blind and have issues reading the text on most cards and identifying cards across from me.

[@jaymesm847]

"Doing nothing is so much better than doing something that is bad for you." 10:22 Emma just deadass inspired me to quit my job

[@brettjacobson4600]

Did you do it?

[@TheFootballstar5588]

^^

[@aaronboyles5237]

Getting a free education is always wonderful, but when it comes from an individual wearing socks such as as those... you know it’s going to be special and informative. You sir, are fearless. Thank you as always for the wonderful content! Thank you Prof and the team!

[@TolarianCommunityCollege]

[@drackoex]

Dont forget the bulbasaur socks either!

[@hardwatermaster91]

Had me in the first half ngl thought I was gonna have to fight someone lol

[@HannesMrg]

What I'd like to add to the last point is to also warn your opponents when they make an action that is clearly a mistake because they didn't read every single card on the table and let them take it back. Especially for new players 4 big boards is way too intimidating to completely check before playing a card, so it saves a lot of time for everyone to just let them play and inform them if there is anything they have missed. An exception is that one player who always looks at their phone and doesn't pay any attention when it's not their turn. No mercy there =D

[@ujai5271]

Thank you for the "put actual win cons in your deck" segment. The worst kind of games for me are these 3 hour boardstalls with no way to end it.

[@Vengetuen_Wraith]

I made a deck specifically to stall games once for when I play with assholes, it's called esper fuck you. buch of removal, exile, land destruction, tax and counterspells

[@Zotarian]

Untitled? What about “Tolarian Talks”? Kinda a spoof on TED Talks Or “Between two FernStriders”?

[@TolarianCommunityCollege]

But the title IS Untitled. See? It's me being ever so clever.

[@Pilsnerp1c]

@@TolarianCommunityCollege I think Adam Savage's "Still Untitled" podcast beat you to this.

[@djcochrane]

I actually like that it’s UNtitled. Though it fits more Dies to Removal with the wacky openings.

[@Frothmeister]

@@TolarianCommunityCollege that's just like a cut uncut foil sheet

[@rforplants6088]

What about Tolarian Takes!

[@JubileePenguin]

“Commander is a broke format that the social contract makes unbroken” I paused the video to clap. This is so true.

[@UniGya]

Corpsefoot Gaming Corpsefoot Gaming that’s a very black and white and somewhat mean way to think of the social contract of commander. The social contract isn’t about excluding people for how they want to play, it’s about understanding how people want to play the game and trying to make sure everyone has a good time. That’s why cEDH and non-cEDH but high power tables exist. The social contract is that when you sit down you have established that you want to play a certain power level and you won’t bring an over or underpowered deck in comparison to the rest of the table. No casual format should be about exclusion of certain player types, it should be about making sure that players are courteous and respect what other players want out of a game and will attempt to provide that experience with the knowledge that the other players are doing the same. TL;DR: Spikes are fine as long as the rest of the table is on board with it

[@JubileePenguin]

Noah Spears the social contract is by definition NOT black and white. Banned cards and black and white you can’t play or you can. The social contract is a way to allow more cards without having unfun games. Spike build aren’t inherently social contract breaking. But if someone builds a spike decks than call it jank to play with lower levels that is breaking it.

[@UniGya]

jubisgul I wasn’t saying it is, I was talking about the other guy who replied to you saying that the social contract exists to exclude Spikes

[@DiabloTommaso]

@Corpsefoot Gaming Someone does. And i Have to take out my kroxa

[@horserage]

WHITE

[@d.w.7203]

"I don't think, commander can survive, if that mentality gets adopted." Absolutely correct.

[@SilaninilTheOtaku]

I mean a decent name for something like this, a general magic the gathering podcast, could be something along the line of 'Tolarian Electives' ? Keep the academy theme but its the fun stuff you take because you want to learn more, not the main curriculum...Just an idea.

[@BackyardRonin]

thats got a good ring to it

[@endersblade]

That's actually fantastic.

[@harrylawson6293]

Risking alienating a foreign audience. As an Englishman, the term 'electives' connotes politics and doesn't relate to school at all. I would imagine the same applies to other foreign demographics. Just my two cents.

[@Mr_Myst13]

Afaik, Prof said the title of the podcast is literally "Untitled"...

[@kremlinhighlander4147]

Do this prof

[@Vesperalsage]

Weirdly on the subject of interaction I actually feel new players run too few cards. Often causing certain cards or synergies to appear more powerful than they are, because players just do not have a way to deal with it. Maybe over time there is an over-correction down the line, but I feel the new players do not value interaction enough. This then can often cause gauging power level to be hard, because maybe as a more seasoned player you sit down with a deck that is not overly tuned but has good interaction, card draw, and win potential. Then when you sit at a table and rate your own deck at a 7 then proceed to stomp the other players the can get frustrated because they think you undersold your deck, when really they just have not played long enough to know what to value. Just a subjective observation I have seemed to notice at particularly green tables.

[@Starf0x32]

Mu group does this all the time: "Flyers? Flyers? K cool. Beers? Beers? Anybody need a beer?!"

[@Siegorius]

If I had a dime for every time I missed a rhystic study trigger...

[@OldGodsGames]

You'd be able to buy another Rhystic Study XD

[@ecos889]

Put it in the middle of the board to remind everyone so even if you are lazy it reminds everyone else so they can do the dirty work for you ;)

[@spic9h592]

@@ecos889 interestly enough, according to actual rulings surrounding Rhystic Study, that's actually against the rules. You and only you are responsible ruleswise. Anything else is technically cheating.

[@drackoex]

@@spic9h592 you are not obliged to remind them to pay. You are right on being responsible to announce the trigger though. Same for mystic remora!

[@pauljimerson8218]

Are you going to pay a dime for that spell?

[@VivaLaReverend]

Haven't played magic in years but still watching the Prof

[@TolarianCommunityCollege]

One day you'll come back to us. :)

[@Foxribble19]

Lots has happened over the last couple of months in terms of magic

[@hatjousuke]

I dig the name :)

[@daleeppannu9049]

Hmm nice I started playing like 6 months ago and I suck lol

[@miniaturespower]

"you're not running into duress" Tergrid: "Please allow me to introduce myself"

[@conker3425]

“Many Magic: The Gathering players ask the question...” Such an iconic line that never gets old. Excellent video, very informative. Keep up the great content Professor 👍

[@djcochrane]

Games have to end, and that’s ok. Means we get to play another. That being said I don’t include some of the big “I win” buttons because of theme, but I always try to find something on theme that serves that roll. I like the challenge.

[@jamespooh2]

I agree with this. You should always strive to win but winning doesn't have to include making everyone else miserable

[@imperialtutor8687]

Nonsense. if the game is already at a state where anyone could win an I win button doesn't even matter.

[@stephenross5586]

I'm watching this and I've literally made ALL of these mistake, and I've worked them out well, other than my borderline addiction to playing an easy infinite combo that me and my playgroup was only possible in normal magic.

[@MisterDanielDuncan]

"No way to play Commander is better than others, but here's a video on the best way to play Commander." --Prof, 2020

[@garrett1433]

My biggest weakness is my greatest flaw tbh, in edh I'm too nice, I feel horrible pulling the I win lever

[@vengray8055]

@garrett1433 What is this? Do you think youre at a job interview?

[@garrett1433]

Life is my job interview uwu

[@iaminevitable4529]

@@garrett1433 10/10 response, would enjoy again.

[@steveng6721]

Whats the point of playing if you arent trying to win

[@garrett1433]

Well I find playing to have fun and playing with my friends more important :)

[@ForeverLaxx]

The "too much interaction" bit is misguided and assumes only one player is taking care of all the threats. If you're that player, then yes, you're "doing it wrong" and you need to convince your table to take some of that removal burden themselves. The actual mistake she's talking about is assuming that ONLY YOU must be the interactive player, not that you have too much interaction. Also, I think they missed an opportunity to talk about one of the biggest mistakes I see from certain players, and that's how vindictive many of them can be. They get mad when you destroy their stuff so they make the rest of the game about them destroying/stopping your stuff regardless of what's happening or in play already. Trying to tell them that they're making a bad move falls on deaf ears because they always retort with "shouldn't have targeted me, bro" and things of that sort. It makes playing with these people incredibly frustrating or volatile because you either let them sit back and amass an army to eventually force their victory or let their 10-turn late recursion engine function, or you get hated out of the game for no reason.

[@Raiden2105]

Already posted about the interaction bit earlier, but I like that you highlighted the issue of what I like to call, "table police." There have been games I've played that just feel like the worst BECAUSE I was the only one interacting with the board. Every deck needs interaction, and I feel as though this video would want you to feel otherwise. As for the second point! My god, tell me about it. Too many players play salty, amd can't recognize that when you deal with their threats, it's because they were just that. Commander at its' core is a social game, and though politicking isn't everyone's thing, being able to talk to your opponents and work together while still working against each other is a huge part of what makes the format great.

[@sulaimanhyatt-butt1453]

I literally lost about half of my games of playing casual edh because of this because one guy gets salty. This is why I play more competitive edh because everyone is at the same page and wont just get salty about removal of their stuff.

[@skiachtro]

I would rather die in the first 5 turns than play against a vindictive opponent(s) who have poor threat assessment.

[@vengray8055]

I could see people being dumb about getting their stuff removed when it made sense. Those people need to do something else because they are fools. Iv punished players for targeting me or my stuff when i didnt think it was the best play or felt that they were targeting me for reason unrelated to the game. Wonder what the other guy was thinking in that game?

[@spooplegeist]

That’s every single time I play Commander Cube with my friends back home. That’s why the one friend always wins. He just refuses to ever stop broken shit and let someone else handle it, so nobody ever targets him. Then he just wins despite not doing anything all game. Really obnoxious.

[@imoveforward007]

Professor, excellent dialogue, I really like that You allow Emma to fully explain herself, and you often compliment or expand upon her points, rather than pivoting the conversation.

[@timothyray9906]

I hate decks that have so much value and severely locks me out the game but then doesn't win for like 10 turns. My example is Muldrotha with extra land drop cards and strip mine, kill my stuff then not do anything for like 10 turns.

[@Hitzel]

tell them that deadeye navigator + peregrine drake only a few bucks and has a good budget tutor package in muldy (shared summons, jerad's orders, etc)

[@rileypowell5354]

i will agree with this. if you're going to grind the pace of the game to a halt, particularly for one specific player, you should be able to kill them pretty shortly thereafter. thats just a general rule, if you cant win, your deck is bad, no matter how well it locks out players.

[@williamramswell1758]

@@rileypowell5354 I know this is a month old, but just saw the video. This is not inherently true, I play cedh heliod and can grind the game to a pretty good halt and early at that but seeing as how it mono white it takes a while to find pieces with limited draw. Stax as an archetype has that problem, if you dont like playing against it just let the group know and ask them to play other higher tier decks (or matching power level ones, you know what I mean) other than that one. Most often the issue with games being just a drag with those decks in play is the players are probably either new to the deck or dont have a clue on how to pilot it making a 2/3min turn into 20 and then you have to now think and play making it much harder.

[@timdornaus]

yes more episodes please. loved the last one and this one so far as well. i need more mtg commander podcasts in my life

[@TolarianCommunityCollege]

Technically this is not Commander only, by pure coincidence of guest availability we started with Commander, but I plan to have folks on to talk Modern and Standard and Draft as well. The 'Unitled' implies free from restrictions. We do what we want!

[@EDHCommander99]

Loving the discussion of the Untitled Podcast, covering Commander in the first two episodes. More please.

[@TolarianCommunityCollege]

More on the way!

[@EDHCommander99]

Woot woot!

[@TheVDub28]

I don't entirely agree with Emma's take on counter spell keeping you and one other opponent further from winning. If an opponent is playing a combo piece and you counter it, you get them farther from winning and you closer to winning because the game could have just been over. I do see where she's coming from though because the next one or two opponents could win and now you're out an answer

[@rileypowell5354]

if i counter a spell that would prevent me from killing you, that seems like a pretty obvious step in the direction of winning

[@danlewis7707]

She was defining tempo. So, in your example: you stop a player from winning with a key counterspell. They can't respond. Then on your turn you are able to win. But now an opponent might respond to you. You might want to respond in kind, but you can't. Your counterspell resolved. Thus you have been the victim of tempo. Where as, had you played an Ertai, Wizard adept and tapped to counter or sacriced a Glen Elendra Arch Mage you might still have that counterspell in hand to win through your opponents interaction. Make sense?

[@rileypowell5354]

@@danlewis7707 breh nobody needs you to explain that.

[@rileypowell5354]

@@danlewis7707 everyone knows what tempo is. The problem is if you follow that logically, you end up with that one scene from princess bride and nobody does anything. A counterspell responds to a threat, I don't use counterspells unless it's to prevent a spell I know will damage my strategy horribly or if I am about to kill my opponent and they're trying to prevent that. That being said those moments crop up a lot because the only deck I have access to counterspells is a blue black zombies deck that my playgroup is wise to so they run graveyard hate. That kind of thing.

[@TheVDub28]

@Najawin oh nice dude. Have you been to the pro tour too? You must be pretty good to call someone with as much competitive experience as Emma just flat out wrong.

[@ReplayStation]

The social contract is paramount. I was sitting down last friday night with three other people at my LGS. One was my buddy who was new to EDH, one was a BRAND new player to MTG and EDH, and the third was a super sweaty tryhard that played nothing but oppressive decks and was super obnoxious about it. People that play like that drive people AWAY from the game. Sure, it's neat to see a deck pop off a make all these triggers, but infinite mill and infinite damage and infinite snark isn't fun for ANYONE. It doesn't just hurt your playgroup or your LGS, but it hurts the game by driving people away from it.

[@KrisWithACh2]

It sounds like you have played quite a few games with this person. I suggest letting him know how the rest of you feel. Communication is key when it comes to the social contract. If he doesn't change his behavior even after you've let him know I would just suggest not playing with him, he isn't worth your time.

[@bigchungus2536]

As Chris said, just don't play with him and encourage anyone else who is not enjoying games with him to do the same. He'll either find other tryhards to play with or make some more enjoyable decks.

[@ryanjohnston4249]

People that do that sort of thing are the bane of MTG. Just relax, it's a casual format. If it really is that imperative to win at a casual card game, you need to reassess your priorities. If it was competitive and for money/prizes then that's different. But a typical EDH game isn't that time/place.

[@endersblade]

Unfortunately my buddy is like that. Everything is an absolute competition to him. But WHY can't he make super competitive decks if he's got the cards and the know-how? Politics? Why should I politic? I want to WIN! It really irritates me, and I've seen him chase off more than one person before. He also gets extremely butt-hurt when we archenemy him. We're all making decks that take 10+ turns to win, politic a lot, and have a good time, he's playing Atemsis and winning on T5, or an Approach of the Second Sun deck that is basically just him playing solitaire.

[@Dataloss484]

@Najawin so the solution you give is: be like him and throw away what you all enjoy in the game. Make it an armsrace that will cost everyone money and THEN search for a new group??? I was/am in that exact situation and it's shit. The actual way to try and fix it was him playing a decidedly non combo, non control deck in our group for casual games and go archenemy for the stronger decks. We talked and compromised. We made stronger decks but still get to enjoy the jank

[@Toothpick211]

I think I would throat punch someone if they said "you can check" after asking them what's that goyf at. SMH "Pro" players ...

[@felhammer2498]

I would grab their graveyard and painstakingly organize it into piles of each card type, then count them out like a kindergartner. :P

[@Khronogi]

Vote the guy out of the pod, and then just ignore him as a pod.

[@olafthemoose9413]

@@felhammer2498 you're technically not allowed to change the order of their graveyard since it might be relevant.

[@sherekhangamedev]

I really like the format of this episodic content on the line of a "Tolarian Master Class" sort of thing. Great work all of you, thank you!

[@sgtfigg1]

I'm that player who runs a handful of random cards. I fogged someones craterhoof turn 😭💀

[@felhammer2498]

That is awesome! ^_^

[@Kydrou]

Como todo un campeón

[@endersblade]

I lived the dream of Mana Tithing a Blightsteel colossus :-) Unfortunately people were more dumbfounded that I even bothered running that card than they were that I used to counter a Blightsteel with it...

[@joshualevimusic]

That’s wonderful

[@W1DO]

@@endersblade wait? Some ppl DONT run mana tithe? Next you will be telling me that not meeting any other mono white decks isnt just my luck :)

[@Folgrith]

Man, my Talrand deck broke all the rules lol. It’s entirely counterspells and cantrips that do nothing without Talrand on the board lol. Still stupid fun to play.

[@raphaeldean5801]

I know, like, my Lavinia deck is just stax and counters... I think mill or commander damage might be the win con.

[@sethdayton8076]

Me in the corner playing brago. Just etb value but I finish with infinite combos so I'm using brago for value.

[@joshualevimusic]

I play Talrand too and it’s the same! I love it but don’t play it too often because it’s oppressive and rude, but definitely one of my favorite commanders out there

[@aaronhooker7588]

I play Talrand too. Lots of counters, bounce effects, draw spells, and others (propaganda / reality shift). Remember thought, Talrand provides extra with each instant or sorcery. It's not just draw x and Scry x, it's draw x and Scry x with a 2/2 flying drake (value).

[@coreysierchio4650]

"Stupid fun to play" is the subtext of every deck of Commander I've put together. (11 so far.)

[@wnightshade]

This was a stellar conversation. More Emma, please, Professor!

[@HandMadeSpider]

These two seems to really respect and admire each other and thats amazing to watch

[@mr.guizee7764]

That's why I love cEDH. Very fun and interactive.

[@92berek]

Finally a guest who has a normal accent and is easy to understand

[@Eckendenker]

ZING

[@StrongButAwkward]

It's not that I dislike 'I win buttons' being in EDH decks. The game has to end at some point, clearly. I just get tired of people acting like there are only 2-3 I win button options in a color or color combination, leading to many decks of the same color just defaulting to the same 'best way to just win' card in the color regardless of deck itself. There are just such a massive pile of win conditions in each color and color combo that, yeah, watching *yet another* blue deck win with lab man or green deck win with Craterhoof when the decks share no connective tissue beyond being the same color and having the ability to benefit from the effect does get pretty old and tired when people could be winning in a more varied way that has more to do with the deck they are playing specifically. The issue is pretending like their is no alternative to people being so unimaginative or curious about the depth of the field they can select from for win cons. The entire format is suppose to be about unique player and deck identity and flair; like, be creative enough about how you win that you at least look for a different final card to win with across the several decks you play that share a color for fuck sake. If every deck you own that has blue in it wins with Lab Man and every deck you own that has black in it wins with Exquisite Blood and Sanguine Bond it feels like you didn't really put any thought into it and are perfectly fine with ostensibly different decks always winning off the same cards in the end. It doesn't feel unique or like your various decks has an identity if now matter what you play through the game in each you end up with the same final spell to win. It feels generic and low effort. It feels lame.

[@solidmasterdante]

I think you're focusing too much on the end of the game. Yeah, my Sidisi deck generally wins with Craterhoof or Mike and Trike, but there's a whooooooole lotta game that happens before it gets to that point. Not that self-mill reanimator is a terribly original example, but the point is that there's more to the deck than just how it wins. It's a toolbox deck that finds the best ways to get ahead, or the best ways to answer things. Regardless of how often I drop a Hoofy boy down to smoosh the table, my games have plenty of variety in how we get there. Are there alternative ways to win? Sure. But these ways are VERY good, and work well with what my deck is already doing. I picked them because they're the best "I Win" buttons for the job, and that doesn't invalidate all the decision making that happens before you get to that point, however "lame" you may feel it is.

[@SaltySparrow]

I played in one formal EDH event at a store and in both games people combo-ed on turn 3/4 and I just left. It was advertised as casual /w $5 buy in and get a pack. Have not done a formal event since, just casual with players between rounds or with friends.

[@wertm123]

You do you, that's what EDH is all about (or atleast should be).

[@felhammer2498]

Yeah turn 3/4 win is so boring. If i wanted that, I would go play Modern or Pioneer.

[@jamespooh2]

I'm sorry you had that experience. Usually game stores are better about that

[@guysmcfellas615]

That's unfortunate. It's also why I stick the my kitchen table. People who take magic, or any tabletop game "seriously" are just toxic. Games are meant to be fun.

[@Tig3rV3nom]

They were most likely playing Cedh which is edh just with the best decks possible to win. It's the best way to play commander as long as everyone is on the same playing field. I have 3 Cedh decks and regularly loan them if others want to play but dont have a strong enough deck. If the pod is balanced games usually last a long time with tons of interaction.

[@graham5808]

For interaction, I found running cards that have similar activated abilities to normally played interactive cards to be nice considerations due to the balance of opponents disrupted to resources used. While these type of cards tend to be more mana to play and may require other resources to activate, they have the benefit of recursion and synergistic boosts. For example, look at Doom Blade and Attrition. Both cards allow you to kill a nonblack creature, serving a similar role. Doom Blade allows that ability to happen at instant speed for a cheap price of one and one black. However, it will usually only ever kill one creature. While Attrition's initial cost is higher than Doom Blade's and requires a creature to sacrifice to work, Attrition allows for any number of activations, as long as you have creatures to sac and mana to spend. This ability synergies well with creatures that can be brought back from the graveyard easily, like Gravecrawler and Reassembling Skeleton.

[@alecw5432]

My playgroup has a bit of a weird rule-- if you turn one a winter orb, we call you the winner, you put winter orb on the bottom of your library, and you draw a card. People I've told this to don't seem very fond of it, but it's a funny way for us to laugh off when one of us goes in a little too hard on a game.

[@mattwufsus20]

Great to see Emma on your show!

[@lastblockbuster]

Gotta agree with Prof The I win button is absolutely necessary, I don't want to play a 2 hour long game. I dont mind if it's someone else who goes into fifth gear either.

[@endersblade]

I agree, to an extent. Nobody should win before at least T10 in my eyes. But in general, as long as the game was interactable and fun, I don't care who wins.

[@WingsOfPhilosophy]

This might sound strange, ... but could you make an Episode on shuffling?

[@VampiricGamess]

I really enjoy the interview format that you have been using. Thank you for all of your videos Professor and Emma. Very insightful and a wonderful place for new players to start.

[@matthewstubbs8570]

I'm very happy to be seeing more of Emma and hearing her drop knowledge bombs.

[@IvanRSaldias]

My fav combo was Vapors+Teferi's Protection. I skipped 1billion turns and left the table grab a coffee while the opponents looked at me astonished 🤣🤣🤣

[@mikotagayuna8494]

The biggest mistake Commander players make is not moving on from a group who constantly thinks your idea of fun is wrong.

[@LukeLavablade]

I was very confused by her point about "interactive cards" until I figured out she meant "you need enough cards that contribute to your win condition." She used that version of the explanation eventually, which was nice. I just feel like the initial description of the 'mistake' was misleading.

[@CommanderReplay]

Yeah I agree her point was articulated poorly. Generally speaking, more removal = more wins if you have a well built deck. The prof talked about the game that ends on turn 3... the game doesn't end on turn 3 when everyone has removal. Also to some degree I almost feel like that promotes that the turn 5 "I win" type of play where a couple things happened and no one answered them the game ended. Nothing makes me happier than introducing hour or revelation and winter orb into those settings...forcing non interactive players to interact. Its glorious.

[@RobertJW]

That moment later in the game where you can say "See if you can stop me but if you can't..." is something I really like about Demonic Consultation+Thassa's Orracle and ways to get back the Consultation - I don't know where the Oracle IS so I can name it, if you can't answer it I might win on the spot, but also I might just lose to the Consultation.

[@BREAKDOWNFACE]

Would LOVE a pro/tournament vid with do's and don'ts for beginners!

[@theholllydogggylllama339]

Did anyone notice at 25:30 they both reach for their cups, but decide against taking a drink? Lol. I love little social subconscious synchronicities that almost look awkward lol.

[@YourCrazyOverlord]

Dang, Emma's insight was honestly REALLY helpful, especially in simplifying decklists and timing your removal!

[@TolarianCommunityCollege]

She’s the best!

[@endlessorbaggins8223]

The easiest way to win easily against 3 opponents is to infinite combo kill them one shot, but at the same time it is the least fun way to win (in my opinion) and have an interactive fun Commander gameplay game. I feel like we have to do a compromise about Winning or having Fun in this format. That could explain why so many Commander decks are combo based (at least in my play group) in search to win easily. I prefer to go the synergistic grindy way, combat damage way, without infinite loop... it is in my opinion more fun at a table where no ones playing combo, but it is also the hardest way to win. I opt for fun rather than win (yes i'm a Timmy!)

[@PixelBush]

Vis a vis: Craterhoof and its ilk. I think the issue people have with cards like that are not so much that they *end the game*, it's that they're boring and unoriginal ways to do so. If I'm playing a BUG hypermana deck, why bother with Torment of Hailfire when you could cast the much more interesting Villainous Wealth instead, for much the same effect? I've been told to put Craterhoof Behemoth in my 5c Sisay legends deck. I don't do so not because I don't want to end the game, but because I'd rather find interesting ways to end the game that I'm fairly sure other people aren't playing. If I'm sitting at a table with 3 other green decks there's a very real chance there'll be 3 other Craterhoofs at the table, but there's a very slim chance there'll be 3 other Dragon Thrones of Tarkir or Heroes' Podiums. There certainly won't be any other surprise combo kills with Gerrard Weatherlight Hero and Saffi Eriksdotter. I don't run Craterhoof in any deck because it's done to death: there's enough cards now that do something close to what it does interestingly enough for it to be replaceable with something with a more personal touch, even if you're sacrificing some effectiveness.

[@djcochrane]

There’s a challenge to finding those alternatives that I really enjoy.

[@ghostsword6554]

Prof is really nailing it with these recent guests, the discussions are fantastic and really showcase the our fascinating community ^^

[@TolarianCommunityCollege]

Oh, you.

[@MadMage86]

My number 1 mistake I see people making in commander has to do with removal, and it is somewhat multi-faceted. First off, to sort of counter your entire section on 1-for-1 removal, I think to many players run too LITTLE 'spot removal' and I make a point of running 10-12 in every deck. The more pressing mistake, however, has to do with threat assessment; my wife does this thing all the time where she asks "what is the worst thing on the table right now?"; if you EVER find yourself not knowing what is actually a threat to you, your best option is to DO NOTHING. A lot of big, scary thing happen all the time in EDH and you need to be able to look at those threats and realistically assess if the threat is imminent or if you need to save that Path to Exile for a more pressing concern. On the flip side of that, I have encountered players who do not understand the concept of MUST ANSWER cards; often times this is event he person playing those cards. I have a friend who plays an Atraxa Superfriends deck who was once upset that I blew up her Doubling Season immediately, and I cannot stress enough that you: A. Have to learn to identify cards which NEED to be dealt with and B. Be understanding when you cast one of these spells that if it is not answered, the game is basically over. I have never seen a game where a Vorinclex sticks that did not end shortly after.

[@HalcyonicDays]

I really agree with "cards that are only good when my commander is on board," but it's important (for me, personally) not to take it too far and play what amounts to a 3-color Good Stuff deck because my EDH decks are all about self-expression and playing what feels fun. It's so tempting to fill your deck with all the big EDH stable or the EDHREC suggestions, but as stable as a Good Stuff deck is, it always feels like it lacks heart. That said, playing too many cute "pet" cards that are actually quite bad is a sure-fire way to set yourself up for a bad time when you deck is too fragile to get to do what it wants and loses to first piece of removal.

[@irwanfaizal9558]

No one perfect, especially you..... Thus the birth of Prof's personal nemesis, yay! +1 archenemy :)

[@CommanderReplay]

I disagree heartily on the removal side of things. Running more removal will generally make you win more games. Stopping your opponents from winning, especially in a fast situation is more important than you actually winning. If they win, you now have no opportunity to win the game where is they have no won yet you still have an opportunity to win.

[@nothing4mepls973]

Damn, I feel like I don't know jack about my own decks after watching this. Great guest, thanks for the video!

[@BiOToCeL]

I would like to have a game of commander with the Prof and Emma once...sounds like it could be a nice round of magic :)

[@spriggatron2403]

I just recently got back into mtg and I'm really enjoying your videos. Thank you so much for including stills of the cards that are mentioned!

[@jamesbeaumont8979]

Bro I’ll never get over the professor with them Sox haha

[@sethhellenbrand2531]

Prof i think these conversational videos have been some of the best.

[@flamingRose100]

"you'll never see duress in commander" me: building tiny bones (shifting eyes)

[@getlefty82]

I tend to shy away from two card combos because of the "feels bad" that typically results from it happening. On the same hand, some cards (cyclonic rift, blood moon, back to basics) are just as bad on their own even if they don't win the game that turn. Three or more card combos are always fine, though.

[@flynnrider119]

I just have to have the Chulane brawl deck was outstanding. Good job, Emma. Keep up the good work prof.

[@tomhansen7585]

I would like to add an insightful opinion that I hope most people would appreciate, I believe that keeping cards on your side of the board sorted by what they are capable of doing is much more efficient than randomly placing them on the board.

[@Onattamato]

35:23 THANK YOU EMMA. Being a snarky a-hole to your opponent is almost always the wrong thing to do.

[@liamrobertson9508]

The notable exception of course, being when you are playing as the villain in archenemy.

[@upstartgoblin5536]

I like the idea of being a little more competitive in commander but never at the cost of being an ass to the other players. There are aspects like answering peoples questions to help the health of the match in the social contract that need emphasis over other aspects. Great video Prof!

[@shawndiaz7528]

It's funny because a few of my decks are egregious examples of exceptions to these suggestions.

[@Enchilada_Angel]

I love that song he plays in the beginning of the video, it reminds me of the booster box game

[@54m0h7]

One thing I would add to the discussion about asking "how much mana" or "anything with flying" is that you should be paying attention to the game. It's ok to have a conversation with someone who's not playing, but when someone else plays something you should pause your conversation and evaluate what they just played. It shouldn't go a few minutes before you notice a new permanent, and then you go "oh I would have countered/destroyed that". Mana maybe not so much, but creatures with something simple like flying isn't too hard to keep track of if you watch the board develop from the start.

[@kenttsui6024]

I enjoyed the frank and open discussion of a format I'd like to try. Thanks!

[@dus65]

Regarding “slow play”, would you rather people take longer turns that ends up winning/progressing the game over shorter turns that are maybe more interactive and oppressive but don’t end up winning or causing a feel-bad? For context, I was playing Yarok, and it had a couple of infinite mana combos. I didn’t (on the surface at least) have a way to draw out the rest of my deck, let alone win how I thought the deck was supposed to. I will fully take responsibility for not knowing my deck well enough(it is admittedly a bit of a netdeck build) to know what to do in that situation(now I do), and over the course of too many minutes I figured out the solution on the spot. I did however have an original plan that wouldn’t have been an immediate win but the turn itself probably would’ve been over a lot sooner and I would’ve been positioned to win the next turn, but i feared the feel-bad of everyone else feeling like I was purposely playing with my food or that I was gonna be looked down upon for being in such a prime position and not able to win. So which do people prefer? For reference, i had yarok out and had peregrine drake/man o war combo, no Blue Sun Zenith in the deck, ended up using a bunch of clone type creatures on an end raze forerunners to do lethal, but normal win is retreat to hagra/retreat to coralheim, walking atlas and a bounce land. I thought even if I’m able to draw the whole deck any walking atlas type creature has summoning sickness, BUT I can squeeze a tidespout tyrant into play and clear everyone’s board so I’m free next turn.

[@soulflaya2271]

dus65 personally, I don’t mind a player’s turn taking awhile, as long as they are actually, PLAYING. Sounds like you didn’t quite know the deck, which is totally forgivable. “Slow play” for me is someone untapping, then chatting about unrelated things, then trying to make a decision about what to play, chatting about other things, getting up to do some task out of game, and just generally not playing the game totally. You can take a 10 minute turn, drawing your whole deck to find your win condition, but if you can’t keep your train of thought it drives me crazy haha

[@SPCspoon]

It is probably something more related to my personal playgroup than your comment, but I do not understand why people still tend to netdeck in such casual formats?! 🤷🏿‍♂️

[@flametitan100]

@@SPCspoon Usually it helps give a reference point as for what cards you should be looking at for such decks. Odds are, if it's an older commander, people have already made decks attempting to do what you're doing, so looking it up gives you a better idea of how to get to your goal than just mashing cards together could.

[@HotboxinwithMikeTysonClips]

Super interesting podcast. Love it!

[@choooie]

Just throwing it out that painters servant could be another darkest hour in your teysa deck :)

[@MrSocrates_]

He might've not noticed yet, as Painter's Servant was unbanned just recently

[@nathanjamesgoodner]

The two biggest deckbuilding issues I find are first: not enough draw, and second: not enough interaction. If you can find the correct balance of those, you can make an impact at any table

[@VexylObby]

I disagree that a fast game has to be about somebody playing their overpowered (relatively) combo deck for the win on turn 3. A fast game can be played with friendly decks at par, with FASTER plays. What takes the most time in a game is peoples' turns and their distractions. Furthermore, I don't support simply "shuffling up" to conclude a game that was clearly dishonest from the get go. People need to know how others in the pod feel about the situation. Of course, if players were honest with the social contract, much of this wouldn't happen. You can tell I live in a place where there is a lot of "pubstomping". That behavior gets reinforced by people not saying anything. And those players feel proud about their abilities to trick the table into thinking they had a similar power level. I think it is fair to call that out, and to allow people to call it out. At the same time, for those whom call out others' decks to consider if the deck was in fact at par.

[@SadPoize]

Just popping in to say I like this video style a lot. I don’t even play MTG anymore but I still watch all of your videos, and I like these discussion style videos.

[@TolarianCommunityCollege]

Cheers, friend! Maybe one day we will get you back into the game :)

[@pspphatwhite]

One thing that every commander player should do is finding a deck that suits you best. Overwhelmed by the interactions, what to do, what to handle, might as well drop the control colors altogether. And that is still a very legit way to play commander. Have your own battleplan and stick to it.

[@trolrtkorjkhgjdn]

The section on interactive cards doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I mostly play Cedh though.

[@CommanderReplay]

I dabble in cedh, mostly casual and high power edh for me though. Her statements on interaction are incorrect. More removal = more wins. You can't win the game if your opponent just won because you didnt stop their thing. It rings true at all levels, just that in Cedh it happens much faster and usually needs to be 1-2 mana spells to stop it.

[@whiteerdydude]

She also understated the power of creatures that are also removal, they still develop your board. Not a one for one xD

[@olafthemoose9413]

@@CommanderReplay how many removals would you run? 15+?

[@CommanderReplay]

@@olafthemoose9413 Depends on the setting. Casual 10 is fine. High power I'm in the 12-15 range, and Cedh 15+ My Angels decklist is at about 13 right now, plus 2 or 3 creatures that impact my opponents pretty heavily, Angelic Arbiter Remorseful Cleric and Chancellor of the Annex. Interaction is really what keeps someone from just going "i win" on turn 5.

[@trolrtkorjkhgjdn]

Commander Replay yea like I really don’t agree with her views on removal and it’s also a negative thing because I don’t think telling people that they should run less interactive cards is good even in casual play. Like I could understand if you told someone to run less arcane laboratory cards if it’s negatively impacting their deck but interaction is key in most decks.

[@BuildANewGod91]

Painter's Servant fulfills a similar role to Darkest Hour.

[@TheLegalCustodian]

Man, Jimmy and Josh look different in this episode of the Command Zone!

[@thespiritphoenix3798]

It seems that the professor has nearly regained all his hair counters!

[@raphaeldean5801]

Helix Pinnacle is my primary wincon in few stax decks of mine. Armageddon + Planar Birth/Splendid Reclamation is often amazing. Not exactly a wincon, but still, often provides such a massive advantage that it leads to a win.

[@aaronperkinson4433]

The main problem I see with my friends Atraxa deck is he’s so caught up on proliferating with Atraxa, he forgets to play to his other card’s individual strengths

[@decaf999]

Just a minor critique on the "decks shouldn't run too much interaction" point. Decks can get away with that, but only if they run large amounts of card advantage engines. Some of the 4 colour or 5 colour control type decks can get away with 30-35 instants and sorceries because they can run every staple card advantage engine in the books.

[@jamesdavis5081]

More excellent content Prof! Love these discussion videos. I'll be sharing this with my playgroup.

[@ManOfSdeel]

super useful tips, the one for one reminder made a lot of sense

[@Jerhevon]

I do agree on having plans to win in deck. I disagree on some like Craterhoof on two fronts. Overuse as you mention. And speed of response. As someone who's not trying to encourage counterspells in my group, I generally want to include more effects that are dangerous, but do take a turn around the table. For instance, Pathbreaker Ibex features the same win con, but I'm telegraphing what's coming and deliberately giving my opponents a window where more answers are relevant. Either I have to wait for the Ibex, or I had to invest in a way to give it haste. That sort of thing. This isn't going to apply equally across all my decks, but I like it for my decks. A way to demonstrate that I am trying to make the game enjoyable for the table. That I am showing restraint in deckbuilding. I am not always so good about showing restraint when I play and I'm trying to process the board state.

[@darkdragonXD1]

You forget some important mistake, check if Aven Mindcensor is on the field before fetch...

[@stfinalwrath]

Path to exile is actually Mana ramp in my feather. Lol... Cast an instant, generating a 1/1 elemental token or 1/1 prowess monk token, path to exile the token, generating another token and getting a basic land onto the battlefield tapped and returning path to exile to your hand at end of turn, then repeat during each opponents turn and now after one rotation you've jumped up to 4 turns ahead on Mana in Boros Feather. It's such an incredible card in that deck. Lol... It's my favorite spell to cast in my feather.

[@johnanderson4291]

Nice work! Will finish later, but quite a contrast from last time.

[@Crossark1]

Regarding dead-without-commander cards, it should be noted that, of course, exceptions apply. Most Feather, the Redeemed decks hardly run any cards that *don’t* rely on having your commander in play - but only because usually about 1/3 of those cards explicitly protect your commander from removal or remove obstacles in one way or another. In effect, Tron commander deckbuilding often goes all-in on dead-without-commander cards, with the ideology that the right cards will all but guarantee that you’re never without your commander. This is an exception to the rule, and it’s not without its risks and drawbacks, but it’s important to be aware of it.

[@DJlovesjiujitsu]

I met Emma like two years ago at an open in Charlotte. Really chill. Got a picture with her and everything

[@cameronwise-maas5610]

I think the biggest mistake people make while deckbuilding is trying to apply hard and fast rules to the process. For example, as regards "don't run cards that only work with your commander out"...I've got a Kaervek which, outside of a few cards, does essentially nothing without Kaervek. The whole deck. And he costs 7. But the deck works fine, because I know that he's my lynch pin and a huge percentage of the deck is dedicated to ramp to get him out and tutors to find narrow answers for things that might be preventing me from keeping him in play (nevermore, control magic, lignify, etc), recursion to keep his cost low. But if I didn't build with all those failsafes in place and plan to make my deck more robust, it'd be a trainwreck. You have to build the deck holistically, keeping in mind that every element plays off every other element, and you can't isolate a single part and try to apply some rule to it.

[@ngforsgren]

This is some great stuff, sharing this video with my play group.