ToLiss A320 - Flare and Landing Test

[@jcdlrv]

X plane feels much more realistic than MSFS. I love MSFS visuals but in x plane you can really feel the airplanes inertia even while taxing.

[@nathansargent8513]

the latest version of the Fenix is off on landing, it floats like a GA plane for some reason. The Toliss is much mor accurate in the flight dynamics but I think it all comes down to the sim in which they fly. The Fenix team will get it straightened out in due time, no doubt about that, but for now it's a little too floaty. Toliss does make a great product too. They are both excellent tools to train with or just enjoy.

[@thierryb5515]

Totally agree with you, i made several test yesterday with the same conclusion. Nice video

[@gamerdeol2694]

This is what i mean when i say i can feel the inertia and plane when flying on xp, nothing major but it's big enough that i prefer aircraft on xp. I hope fenix can watch this and try to simulate this 🤩

[@WhiteHawk77]

Not without doing a whole external physics engine like A2A did with the Comanche. That said, FS2024 is going to give devs a lot more control so hopefully that will at least help.

[@gamerdeol2694]

@@WhiteHawk77 I'm sure fenix can do it without any external simulation or i at least hope so. Got no experience developing on msfs so idk..

[@bonk2361]

exactly. xp feels like flying. msfs feels like browsing bing maps.

[@southboy18]

Exactly. As much as I love MSFS, everything flies like a GA plane.

[@Ch4rly972]

Emi I like your sincerity and your honesty towards the community. You are outspoken and you are not into damage control like some. Keep it up.

[@delg551]

Everyone stop blaming Fenix. Fenix is fighting the Sim. The sim dynamics wise is just not up to XP's Standard yet, Just as XP is not up to MSFS weather (looks), graphics standards yet or maybe never will be. Fenix is fighting the sim, the sim just isn't ready yet to cover all the nuance of flight.

[@jetBlue083]

Exactly

[@parasim8653]

Appreciate these amazing contents. I own both aircraft… I’ve always thought I was abit biased with my love for X-PLANE. However, knowing you only recently jumped into X-PLANE and with your reviews, I do love X-PLANE even more now. Thank you again 👨‍✈️ 🙏

[@gwalker3092]

Well love the videos I've never seen such indepth videos of fsim flying, well all be experts on Airbus finals and flare 😅. The fcom info was very interesting also. I've been too busy to try the ToLiss properly since this fenix flaring issue started. Tbf it looks pretty good I don't think within the bounds of home fsim you could complain about this. It's clear the ToLiss at present is flaring as would be expected. Fenix have work to do for sure. I'm glad after community inputs you decided to try XP. The ToLiss aircraft were my main learning Airbus for fsim and its why I keep XP. Also the two sims msfs/Xp allow you to carry out this very sort of comparison which is invaluable. When I have a bad day I fly my ToLiss A319 I learnt so much on as a therapeutic moment It's makes all the frustration with sim go away. Thx for video they are without doubt invaluable to my increased learning of all fsim flying. I leave to rated pilots comment is the perfect response, your time will come again after 737NG if Aerosoft ever release their A330 😂

[@wiebe-piercnossen6419]

gotta love X-plane. Thanks

[@Westjet1450]

Love the vids especially the xplane ones

[@blk_miss1le963]

xp looks like ps3

[@Cessna172SNavIII]

@@blk_miss1le963 so? Msfs isn’t realistic

[@blk_miss1le963]

@@Cessna172SNavIII so?

[@Cessna172SNavIII]

@@blk_miss1le963 I forget, most Msfs players aren’t actually pilots

[@Westjet1450]

@@blk_miss1le963 it really doesnt

[@and696]

There Is not doubts the handling on the flare and the touch down in the Toliss is much better vs the Fenix!

[@majoraviatior1611]

I don’t think soo

[@camiloelavionero]

@@majoraviatior1611 toliss flight model is far better than fenix, that’s why I prefer fly my planes on x plane

[@maxsamil5663]

@@camiloelavionero I've never flown the Fenix but I always had the impression it was this near-perfect addon, even better than the FlightSimLabs, and it may as well be in some aspects. But every time I see an actual Airbus pilot go in-depth about the aircraft I'm always surprised how much it lacks compared to the FSLabs or the Toliss

[@valet2972]

@@camiloelavioneronah lol

[@majoraviatior1611]

@@maxsamil5663 well Fenix has more deep systems compared to toliss and a pa feature that toliss does not have. All dynamics will be much improved in block 2 with iae’s so I would expect it to be on par with toliss or fslabs in terms of flight modeling in block 2

[@brendinventer6407]

Your videos are amazing thank you. Be cool after this seeing that you've done so much research and testing, the differences between the Toliss inside of Xplane vs the Fenix. I understand one is neo but still be a good observation type video. Congrats on the A330 type rating anyways! 🎉

[@LuisArgerich]

I think it would be interesting to do the same with the FBW A320N because then we can infer if the problem with the Fenix is the MSFS flight model or the way the modeled the plane. If the FBW A320 has a problem then it is MSFS flight model. If the FBW aircraft is similar to Toliss then the problem is Fenix and how they coded their A320 which to me seems to be fighting against the sim flight model the whole time. We need a third party here, enter FBW.

[@Manuel-9-]

Emi, a serious question... do you have a Time Turner Harry Potter style? how the hell do you manage to do so many things at the same time? :D

[@crocooo478]

Real this guy is the most organised guy I’ve seen

[@A330Driver]

I had some three days off which I used for the new update. Now back to three days flying. As my girlfriend works a standard 9-5 job it means I have lots of time at home when I'm OFF.

[@acktu]

With Toliss, you can also save a flight at any time and reload almost instantly. I use it all the time to practice landings instead of having to do touch and gos.

[@theog700]

msfs>>>>

[@reubensammichenjoyer]

@@theog700 you're crying for no reason, go cope

[@flysimgator]

The toliss dynamic feel so good. I'm no pilot like @737ngdriver, so he will know exactly how the plane should operate, but in my perspective I feel an excellent immersion by the Toliss. I love the Fenix a320, but I don't understand how from .200 to .214 the landing techniques changed like you are flying another plane. Furthermore, I had to learned how to fly the fenix again with this new version.

[@theog700]

@@reubensammichenjoyer I have both sims. Xplane graphics are fucking shit

[@joaolzct]

Fenix should come here also and comment their point. I like the whole fenix team a lot, they are really great and put a lot of effort on their aircraft but msfs2020 isn't helping them and they should admit it, fenix devs aren't the problem, msfs2020 is the problem. it is sad, really is, but it is what it is.

[@frankbyte]

Yeah I agree, they are great devs and do their best. Seems like it's the sim and not the addon...

[@apmarian]

Yeah, definitely looks way closer how the real airplane would react. I don’t have XP12 on my computer to test it out, but seeing your video is possible to have an educated guess how it’s handle. On MSFS, if I could mix the flight model and the FBW from the A32NX with the systems of the Fenix we would get the most accurate A320 on the sim! (For me the FBW A32NX have the most accurate handling in the MSFS!)

[@grosponeyy]

Hi Emmanuel thanks for the comparison. Have you tried the a320 FBW in the same way? Better / worse?

[@matthausnawan2817]

The last but not least, please test flybywire flare and landing. Thanks

[@Crazyitalian997]

Can you do a flight with the tollis A339? would love to see a video of that and would love to hear your thoughts

[@lazo5784]

Although I use all 3 sims would you ever consider venturing into FSLabs A320 family? Testing FSLabs/ToLiss & Fenix

[@A330Driver]

When they release for MSFS I certainly will look at it.

[@forky8079]

I would really consider playing X plane along with MSFS if they would fix the cockpits being so damn dark

[@delg551]

ShadeX (Payware) but this will fix it for you, failing that RE-Shade, or look for a "FlyWithLua" Script. I recommend ShadeX. Also to be fair cockpits are often darker. Not an airline Pilot but have been in many cockpits for other reasons.

[@SimAviator]

There is a Lua script that fixes dark cockpits. Great workaround until an official fix comes around.

[@Trip_on_the_Sky]

They updated the atr, I hope to see it in the channel🙃

[@elainebenes1482]

Msfs will never have that xplane feel

[@majoraviatior1611]

Bro Fenix flies great. It handles in the air just as good as toliss

[@maroon9980]

true

[@delg551]

@@majoraviatior1611 It doesn't, it just does not. Hoping 2024 will aid with this.

[@Cessna172SNavIII]

@@majoraviatior1611 Fenix does fly great, but it’s limited to MSFS’s non realism

[@az-rule84]

Its easier to have smooth landing or butter with toliss to fenix

[@delg551]

Because it fly's better!

[@davidhanak6245]

when will you change your name to A330 Driver?:)

[@patpilot1675]

You can change to a ceo as well!!! In the toliss panel

[@A330Driver]

On the 321, yes. But on the 320?

[@tomstravels520]

Not on the A320, it is only the NEO variant. A321 has CEO and NEO

[@michaelpoch996]

I dont know….I have around 600 landings in Fenix….the current version .214 definitely requires to adapt the technique, but I floated the aircraft one single time. Never put it back to a climb. Fenix is doing a great job.

[@tomstravels520]

Just because you’ve managed to land it doesn’t mean it’s realistic to the actual aircraft though and I see what they mean with the difference.

[@michaelpoch996]

@@tomstravels520 I get your point and I like Emi, but when it comes to 320 I prefer to trust the type rated/current 320 pilots over Emi with exactly none real-life 320 experience who definitely dont share his scepticism over Fenix not behaving correctly.

[@ndmz903]

​@@michaelpoch996blackbox does..

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

in these videos, do you think you could pop out the EFIS and ECAM screens either in the X-Plane monitor, or on a secondary monitor and overlay them on the recording with OBS?

[@A330Driver]

I tried that, but it ended up with very, very low fps on the popouts. Like 2fps.

[@TheSAfreak]

Will you do a test with the FBW and FSL?

[@FU2Max]

Great Video as always. Could you do a similar vid using the same airport simular weights etc in the Fenix please. Yes i understand that this is a neo (in this vid) but I would like to see the difference. Many thanks.

[@parasim8653]

I could be wrong.. but I think he’s done a video in the Fenix already and this is part 2 in X-Plane. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pIWyl2dvqtyho9Esi=UhmedqW4Xy1lEO3Y Again I could be wrong 🤷‍♂️

[@A330Driver]

Hi, this actually is the same airport and weight as used in the first video.

[@FU2Max]

@@parasim8653 nope youre right, I watched this one first, silly me.

[@FU2Max]

@@A330Driver Yeah sorry, watched this vid first, apologies

[@KayAviator]

Could you give the flight factor A350 a try. I thought I needed a lot of back stick pressure for rotation and landing (flare) coming out of a fenix I thought my settings may be wrong can you give a review?

[@animatedchristmascollector3754]

Ff 350 isn’t that good tbh

[@lemargasskin8397]

I always new something was wrong with the fenix. And bought and never flew it again .I prefer the toliss and the fbw planes.

[@seigfreid123100]

Good. Now fly the pattern in Direct Law.

[@A330Driver]

Why would I?

[@dankramm]

I wouldn’t consider this a great comparison, given the difference of flight models both sims have.

[@dekar43]

Well they both try to simulate the same plane, so the comparison is factual.

[@southboy18]

Well that was...kind of the point of comparing the two, to point that out.

[@ilayashkenazi]

Hi Emanuel i know you are a member of the pmdg team so i wanted to ask you if you could mabe help me understand why when im steering on the ground my plane wont go steeper than 20 degree's?

[@tomstravels520]

Are you steering with the rudder only?

[@PolarPenguin526]

does the Toliss A320 not have full thrust reverse?? i just got it and it only stays at like 68% not full

[@A330Driver]

That is full, isn’t it?

[@PolarPenguin526]

@@A330Driver maybe i guess im just comparing it to irl and its different but idk loll

[@jacrispy90]

With Xplanes superior flight model and ground effect I would expect flaring to be better in XPlane than MSFS. This is comparing apples to oranges no?

[@jfelipe1987]

will you try the fbw?

[@johnmaguire2185]

Neo and on old version do not fly the same. The NEO has huge engines changes the flare. A bit pointless, there is nothing in XP worth choosing XP over MSFS for a new simmer or moving from P3D.

[@gwalker3092]

I've just tried ToLiss A319 A321 in XP and they are different to A320ceo/neo in RL but NONE of them float on the flare. Whether this down to XP physics or ToLiss design I do not know. All I can say from flying ToLiss for years and Fenix since day 1 is that on this particular issue ToLiss are clearly superior. It's not a XP is better than MSFS issue just simple comparison your supposed to make your OWN judgement. Regards both sims enjoy the best of what both offer certain planes in one are better than certain planes in other. The old msfs vs XP fan boy arguments are old boring and unnecessary.

[@gamerdeol2694]

@@gwalker3092 100% Thats the way to think going forwards! But if it truly is a sim limitation i do feel it's fair to point that out so fenix doesn't get the unnecessary blame.

[@angelicguru4066]

I am not sure if different engines will impact the flare, even less in such a noticeable way. Do you have a source for that @johnmaguire2185 ?

[@goldgamer8446]

There are actually tons of things XP makes better. However, for a person being completely new to the flightsim-world i would absolutely recommand MSFS. But for a person doing training and/or a real pilot, i would recommand XP because i am convinced that from an aviation‘s perspective it is a better sim. MSFS is more gamey and may look better but lacks important things, not only about aviation but also in the handling, usability and openess of the plateform.

[@gozz7733]

Why are you watching XP videos if MSFS is so much better?

[@LandingsMSFS]

Now that is how an airbus flares. Take notes, fenix.

[@majesticlonghorn105]

👋

[@matness8879]

These two landings looked way better compared to the Fenix yesterday... But thats comming from a boeing fanboy😅

[@ravgath]

That's why I prefer to fly in XP than MSFS. Because these planes feel like they are flying and not on rails.

[@ottokimaru]

To me it looks exactly the opposite. if you compare this video about toLiss and Fenix video, so here the plane lands without any correction which makes me think it's much easier to land a plane in XP. just compare the videos. What also strikes me is that Emi says nothing about nose drop... well I dunno

[@gamerdeol2694]

Even though msfs has the dynamic atmosphere built in i still feel flight paths are very linear like you said. Instant changes in flight paths almost.

[@Ch4rly972]

The MSFS atmosphere is not realistic at all, that why Fenix recommends reducing turbulence to low. Also planes on MSFS are very twitchy and have no inertia.

[@gamerdeol2694]

@@Ch4rly972 yup, same thing i noticed since i tried it out. The "atmosphere" would make my trimmed plane out of trim suddenly

[@matness8879]

Complete opposite feeling. Eye candy is more important for me especially in VR. Dynamics is also very important to me, don't get me wrong, but the difference is not that big. Now I will never fly these kind of birds in real life (that really hurts me saying it out loud ❤️‍🩹😂) But im able to make perfect flights in MSFS/PMDG with very smooth landing right on the markers. So with the eyecandy of MSFS combined with the power of a PIMAX crystal and a motion rig...it's the closest I will ever get to the real deal all from out of my mancave 😅 sometimes I really can get lost in VR and my brains are telling me I'm living my dream😅 Not so long ago I was one of the luckiest guys in the world, because I was invited on to the jumpseat for the entire flight. During this flight, I had to convince my brains this was the real deal and that I wasn't wearing a VR headset while staring at the PFD BTW. I have been a couple of times in full motion boeing 738 simulator and off course it was nothing compared to my home setup with the feeling of winds and forces on the yoke etc etc, still I managed to get her down safely with a rather smooth touchdown. So MSFS mustn't be that far off with dynamics because it's the only SIM I have ever used

[@finn_bod8386]

Great Video as always! But please change the livery next time thx:)

[@TRIPONCODEINE]

cry about it thx:)

[@benjamin-hu1so]

Yeah dirty livery . Thank you Emanuel for supporting such bad acts

[@hasuuuu]

Wow, really rude

[@maxsamil5663]

Love will win in the end.

[@mlx39996]

hahaha 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈 cry about it