Tom Holland on his bestseller Dominion

Although Western-Europe is becoming more secular, Christian values are still at the core of our European society. Tom Holland’s bestseller Dominion tells the story of how Christianity transformed Europe and is still influencing the way we behave and think. Can Holland give Europeans a new story in a time where Europe seems to get more divided? He enters into conversation with De Balie-director Yoeri Albrecht about his recently acclaimed book.
Actress Maureen Teeuwen, winner of Colombina 2018 award, will read different biblical texts.
De Balie curates this programme in the run-up to Forum on European Culture, 4-7 June 2020 in Amsterdam. Ticket sales for the FOEC festival starts soon!
Ondanks dat West-Europa steeds meer seculier wordt, liggen Christelijke waarden nog steeds in de kern besloten van onze Europese gemeenschap. In Heerschappij vertelt Tom Holland het verhaal over hoe het Christendom Europa veranderde en hoe het nog steeds invloed heeft op ons denken en doen en laten. Kan Holland Europeanen een nieuw verhaal bieden in een tijd waarin Europa steeds verdeelder lijkt te worden? Deze avond gaat hij met De Balie directeur Yoeri Albrecht in gesprek over zijn laatste bestseller, waarvan de Nederlandse vertaling op 20 februari 2020 verschijnt bij Athenaeum.
Actrice Maureen Teeuwen, medeoprichter van de Mug met de Gouden Tand en winnaar van de Colombina 2018, leest diverse bijbelse fragmenten voor.
De Balie verzorgt dit programma in de aanloop naar Forum on European Culture, 4-7 juni 2020 in Amsterdam. Kaartverkoop voor het FOEC festival start binnenkort!
Meer info: debalie.nl/agenda/tom-holland-about-dominion/

[@Hbmd3E]

Two young fish were swimming as older fish passed by, he said " Hello boys how is the water ? " They continued on and looked each others " what the hell is water? "

[@PauloConstantino167]

The analogies he comes up with never cease to blow my mind...

[@davidcrowley1951]

Small but important point. Tom often misquotes Mt 19:30 The passage does not say the first will be last and last first; but "Many who are first will be last and many who are last will be first." The word "many" is important. It does not say or imply all.

[@MariaRaju]

Christianity is the waters in which we swim today. Great thoughts.

[@michaelgorby]

Sure, the language that enlightenment thinkers used were a legacy of Judeo Christian thinking & writing. But the underlying ideas themselves were not inspired by it directly. I mean, there is a reason it took over 1500 yrs for these enlightenment ideals to emerge. If one wishes to credit Christianity with inspiring some of our modern concepts, it seems to me you need to also lay the barbarism, persecution and superstition squarely at the feet of the Church as well.

[@duncescotus2342]

Thank you Lord--Diarmaid MacCulloch, N.T. Wright and now Tom Holland. Only thing is I'm going to need a bigger nightstand!

[@tompommerel2136]

At around 52 mins, it becomes clear that the insights discussed can also explain the phenomenon of the idealisation/purification/ostracization of woke-ism today, in that wokeness is completely and notionally/culturally rooted in the Western development of Christianity. Fascinating delivery and discussion.

[@FrancT-]

Holland has done a great interview on that as well with Triggernometry.

[@mchandler4722]

I don't follow the connections, if you were making them. It seems to me that wokeness, PC, and Critical (Race) Theory comes not at all from Christianity, but post-modernism and neo-communism/Marxism.

[@EndingSimple]

Where do you think post-modernism and neo-communism/Marxism come from? That's Tom's point.

[@rmpk2133]

The interruptions of the interviewer majorly detracts from this amazing content.

[@michaelgorby]

Omg, it's maddening.

[@Hbmd3E]

at the start yes but then he comes down, and you get used to it

[@Frederer59]

Only 900 views? Should be 9 billion. Must watch again but with pencil and paper on hand. Hold on, the Christian thing to do would be to buy the damn book.

[@craigreedtcr9523]

Ha ha ha. The " Darn" book, but yeah. Totally agree. A great video.

[@jasonokasuo3401]

@@craigreedtcr9523 Indeed the damn book, christian apologists are going overdrive with it...

[@grolstum211]

That is exactly what his motivation is. To sell as many books to christian taliban as possible. He is not a historian. He is a businessman.

[@ursulaporage2750]

Great Interview...Dominion was one of the best books I read this year 🙌🙌

[@harveypeters6874]

The Word they still shall let remain, indeed! Lovely to hear God's Word proclaimed.

[@voz805]

I was shocked how after giving such a long splendid talk, Tom Holland was unceremoniously nudged off the stage with neither a thank you nor applause. What it means to be European?

[@marcinrzu]

exactly the same feeling here

[@sharon-ge4zk]

I also agree... Tom Holland is gold.

[@ivanzizic4193]

10:17 10:17

[@setiem13]

That last part gave me this contrast feeling with everything Holland said about the whole secular ethics and morality not being compatible with foreigners from non Christian countries, EU has it very hard dealing with this kind of dilemmas.

[@Joeshapiro7]

Many Africans come from Christian countries and don't adjust well. I think it's because often times Christianity is syncretized with local preexisting traditions in those countries. As a practicing jew I fit into European cultures far better than most of them do. That's probably because much of what sets Western society apart from the rest comes from preexisting Jewish notions that Christianity spread out to a wider audience. The intrinsic value of all gods creations. The dignity of both genders and their roles. Judging people as people and for their personalities and not as sexual objects. A desire to educate all children. Those were not preexisting in the vast majority of gentile cultures until christianity, and in many cultures, those values still don't exist. Yes, replacement theory led to a lot of persecution of Jews by Christians. But in the post holocaust and Vatican 2 world. I can do very well in almost every Western country.

[@nowaylon2008]

Christianity to be celebrated? "I increasingly think that it is."

[@resilientrecoveryministries]

As a third-generation Hollander, i.e, my grandparents come from the Netherlands and I live in the U.S. I feel like this interview was made especially for me.

[@EndingSimple]

Wow. That opening was my Bible study for today.

[@gustafschonemyr833]

Love it! I have yet to read the book, but I will! Trust me!

[@Loenthall88]

Just excellent.

[@celienepaul5378]

Most humans, including me, have been swayed by the trendy. clever, persuasive arguments of those muddying the waters of Christianity. Appreciate Tom's sincere attempt to bring clarity. Seems it is only with a certain clarity you can sense and see the 'acorns and the trees' and feel grounded and connected to what is God and what is good.

[@jamessgian7691]

There has never been anything in science or from the “Enlightenment” forward which should have diminished our freedom to accept Christianity fully. In fact, we would not have modern science at all without Christianity. I had a mother who was Catholic and a father who was an agnostic and loved science and reason. I went to Mass each week and heard the gospel of Christ, and loved the sane goodness of his call to love others, to avoid hypocrisy, and, by his example, to love God. I returned home more than a few times to find my father reading books on different science topics - Carl Sagan’s Cosmos and many others. My father did not tell me he didn’t believe in God. He figured he would wait until we were older and discuss if we were interested. I loved science and God and felt no conflict or tension between them. It wasn’t until fifth grade that I realized there were people who thought there was a conflict. It didn’t make sense to me then, and it still doesn’t. The philosophical foundations of science are that the universe is sufficiently ordered to allow observation and reasoning to work efficaciously toward our understanding it, and that our reasoning, however limited it may be, is trustworthy enough to account for this understanding. Both of these foundational claims are compatible with and arose historically out of monotheism. They are inconsistent with atheism, polytheism, Buddhism, and every other worldview. To believe science functions as science claims is to defend these monotheistic claims: that there is a Source for the otherwise inexplicable existence and persistence of an explicable, mostly reasonable universe. God and science are perfectly compatible. From atheism we should expect nothing to remain nothing, but even if there was something, it should be chaotically disordered as there should be no teleological cause to provide it anywhere near the degree of order it entails. Also no reason for these realities to persist through time. There would be no such thing as thought, consciousness, conscience, abstract realities like numbers or other qualia of experience, and certainly no such thing as reason arriving from undirected processes. As for evolution, while I recognize that natural selection (NS) occurs and random mutations (RM) occur, the popularly held understanding of evolution that the history of biological progression can be accounted for through NS plus RM plus time has been proven FALSE by biology over the last century. We should throw out the term “evolution” as it is misleading and use the term “innovation” instead. The biology of information genetics has rendered the purely naturalistic explanations offered by Darwin (in which I believed until I read more of the science) untenable. As James Shapiro (not a theist, but a biologist at the University of Chicago) state’s in his book “Evolution: A View from the 21st Century”: “The perceived need to reject supernatural intervention unfortunately led the pioneers of evolutionary theory to erect an a priori philosophical distinction between the ‘blind’ processes of hereditary variation and all other adaptive functions.” He speaks of cells exhibiting cognitive capabilities in the programming, writing, proofreading, coding, and other language-based utilities in its functions. Shapiro further states, “...it is apparent that systems engineering is a better metaphor for the evolutionary process than the conventional view of evolution as a selection-based random walk through the limitless space of possible DNA configurations”. With the multiple layering of systems engineering, language code usage, proofreading, self-correction of mistakes, etc. going on in cells, biology is far beyond the limited range of statistical or even cosentic information for which chance or NS could account. It uses semantics and apobetics throughout the entire process just like software systems preprogrammed for specific purposes. This teleological aspect in cells has led the rather honest atheist philosopher Thomas Nagel to write his book “Mind and Cosmos: Why the Materialist NeoDarwinian Understanding of Nature is Almost Certainly False”. Nagel admits he doesn’t want to believe in God, so he attempts to search for a teleological view of nature that would prevent the Deity from appearing as necessary, but, in my opinion (and honestly, even in his own assessment) he is unable to do so. Many people do not want to look at the evidence and where it actually leads. Richard Dawkins stated that Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually satisfied atheist. As Darwin has been proven wrong, no matter how much denial there is in the Orthodox Position against this reality, atheism is no longer intellectually satisfying. The naturalistic processes cannot rise to meet the informational challenges found in cells. Materialism is dead. We’re not talking about a million monkeys typing for millions of years producing Hamlet anymore (not that that was a good argument anyway). We are talking about a million monkeys having Hamlet memorized and self-correcting their typing when they make a mistake to an astonishing level of accuracy that makes our best computer programmers green with envy. I know we have all been told the repeated lie that, “All the smart people know evolution is true and religion is nonsense”. It simply isn’t true. All the wisest people have always believed in God. To reject false idols and erroneous superstitions is good, but Christ was the one true myth. God actually became man. And to reject Him is error. And this error is Death. The violence of paganism is returning to the West even now.

[@whiteleopard1960]

Rather than being an intellectually satisfied atheist, I suspect Dawkins has simply fashioned a Golden Calf out of his own intellect, with Darwin as the messiah.

[@gummiies]

Wow, thanks for sharing.

[@TheRobdarling]

we have science in spite of christianity.

[@TheRobdarling]

@@whiteleopard1960 Interesting how the fellow ignores burning and torturing in the name of his false god.

[@BenEddy]

Great comment, thanks for writing it out. I’m looking into some of the sources and am glad to have been pointed to them. About your last line, with Jesus.. how much do you know about the original Jewish message and what Jews still believe to this day? I would say all that you wrote before that line is very compatible with the Jewish belief as well. Even more so. Because they don’t need to uphold “the one myth that was true” (Jesus). They have all the glory and mission for us from G-d written down and shared as a people just the same, without the need or call for G-d to come down in the flesh... or for us to believe G-d already did. I would be interested to know what strikes you as compelling in Christianity over Judaism.

[@duncescotus2342]

"The waters in which all of us swim." You heard it here first.

[@azbymusic]

Awesome

[@SillyTube9]

The fourth alternative is that Buddhism proves more successfully rational, and yet also ethical, and mystical, and outlasts all the others.

[@craigreedtcr9523]

This was absolutely phenomenal!

[@dfstarborn]

What was phenomenal about it? They're using a false corrupt bible from wescott and hort to Catholic occultists who were behind the modern bible versions. There is no light coming from false bibles and I think after 32 minutes is he questioning how old the earth is and that the bible could be wrong? This is a challenge for us to accept this??????????? Sounds like a Jesuit deceiver to me and he's very effeminate if I do say so myself.

[@knowthycell]

Dáithí Ó Pléimeann let me guess KJV only?

[@Alnivol666]

@@dfstarborn What the hell are you on about? Did you even understand the argument? You seem to be arguing on something nobody is talking about.

[@dfstarborn]

@@Alnivol666 I think my type is very clear so there is no confusion.. God back and read again and you might also read the salvaiton message I left.

[@Alnivol666]

@@dfstarborn So I guess you read the original texts in your spare time. I think Tom is well aware of all the bible versions and their timelines. He did the historical investigation. You on the other hand are only a believer full of biases looking to having them confirmed. Your integrity is well in question.

[@Mutasis_Mutandis]

Just got the book.

[@tigran56]

To paraphrase Gandhi: “What do think of the western mind? I think it would be a very good idea.”

[@garywebster3585]

Message toTom's editor . His reputation will guarentee sales. I assume you edited the magnificent Shadow of the Sword so you get a pass for your slight pre emptive surrender on the Dominion title.

[@yogi1kenobi]

The man who brought us the true roots of islam

[@d4rcym]

what's the guy in the front doing on his phone that couldn't wait!

[@nowaylon2008]

"The making of Christendom, and how Christendom made us... the process of trying to emancipate us from Christianity merely tangles us up in it more and more.."

[@ajlambe1340]

It’s interesting how he says the gospel writers aren’t very good. It is obvious he is not qualified to speak about these books. Dominic Crossan would be a good start. But he’s interested in Christianity which is Paul’s project.

[@quartzsienes8033]

wow this is a nice 2hour video🥺

[@dm-gq5uj]

When Holland talks about 3 possibilities for how Western Civilization might go, I think he's missing a big one: with both secular humanism and institutional Christianity seen as weak and inadequate, increasing numbers of Europeans might adopt the religion of the immigrants they have let in by the millions: Islam. Islam is far more assertive and self-confident than the thin gruel one gets from Church leaders like the Archbishop of Canterbury. I hope that does not happen but we have already seen some pretty high-profile conversions in the UK. People's disgust with empty materialism makes them seek answers in religion - and at this stage, Islam is far more vigorous than European and American mainstream Christianity.

[@seanmoran6510]

Sadly you have a point But then as I told a female colleague who told me she wasn’t bothered by it No I’m not bothered in the end as I’m a man and Islam is a male dominated faith ! Thanks for 3/4s of your property Lol

[@dm-gq5uj]

@@seanmoran6510 Yep. All you have to do is grow a beard, get a few more wives and keep your head down. Your female colleague will be a bit more "bothered by it" than she thinks now.

[@davidhawley1132]

I hear that Western converts to Islam are very likely to leave it within a few years. Also, there is a significant problem with apostasy within Islam in the Islamic states; possibly one reason for that is the scholars are finally having a go at the Islamic tradition, as they did with Christianity in the 19th century.

[@danieltemelkovski9828]

That was the theme of Michel Houellebecq's 2015 novel, "Submission." As much as the thought disgusts me, I agree the possibility certainly exists. Even though it contains so many elements that are repellent to the liberal conscience - making it something of a mystery why liberals go to the lengths they do to shield it from criticism - I think you're quite right that its assertiveness strikes many people as the panacea for their emptiness.

[@dm-gq5uj]

Yes, I think you are correct, Daniel. And that saddens me beyond measure.

[@amynatzke1050]

Does anyone know when this event took place?

[@Hbmd3E]

De Balie curates this programme in the run-up to Forum on European Culture, 4-7 June 2020 in Amsterdam.

[@thattimestampguy]

*Tom Holland* 8:00 Talking as a preview of his book

[@wulfiii1490]

yes, christianity has many important ideas and stories that are part of our culture, although its not just christianity, different european countries have different stories and different cultures, christianity being just part of them. Just because christianity says "treat other people well" does not mean it has the monopol to this thought! Religion comes from culture and different religions and cultures affect each other and evolve. With the internet faster than ever before and not "geographically locally" like before.

[@MrDbrown70]

He is becoming one of the main apologists for the Christian faith. Like a CS Lewis or Chesterton story. He returns home to something he thought he had rejected.

[@Alnivol666]

He is no apologist. Sorry you look at him like this. Christianity has to be integrated into Western society somehow before Western identity is forever lost and the non-Western hordes and the Marxist cabals take over completely.

[@dmann1115]

@@Alnivol666 Hilarious!

[@Alnivol666]

@@dmann1115 It would be funny if it wasn't true. I am trying to laugh but the more I look outside, I really can't. Was just reading an article yesterday about "birthing people". Now that stuff was hilarious. Well...if it wasn't true. Ooh...and I am an atheist by the way. But when I see what other people calling themselves atheists are pushing, I tend to not associate with them.

[@redberries8039]

People with a bias (or an agenda) use their targets long history as a weapon, choosing to ignore the fact that history en-total has been brutal.

[@anthonythistle1465]

I am not surprised. Tom Holland is a man seeking truth and when you seek for the truth, one will always have to come to grips with who Jesus is who said I am the way, the truth and the life. I pray he becomes a follower of the Christ.

[@kengemmer]

Sadly, I can't stand to listen to this due to the annoying static in the audio.

[@saadabbas8976]

FEBRUARY 6,2010 The Paradox of Duality; Illusion to Reality By Asitisnow

[@michaelandrewsalomonenewje4107]

I will, of course, get the book. I do have to ask: Dr. Holland, are you a full, believing Christian in the resurrection and miracles of Jesus Christ?

[@dean-543]

Weird ending.

[@heathersmithventon6307]

Miles Davis

[@daneumurianpiano7822]

How would evolutionary creation/theistic evolution have impacted Nietzsche's view of Christianity? See BioLogos Foundation.

[@rosalindmartin4469]

"Offspring" may be many. "Offsprings" describes Olympic leaping.😂🥀🏋. Arrgh... Paul to those gallatians Arrgh ... is this reading ... biblical?

[@rustyyb8450]

@ 40:00 God created a human without flaw, Jesus, which is his manifestation amongst us. Jesus understands God's Law because it is natural to his nature. I postulate that the mother of Jesus may or may not have a genetic relationship dependent on the basis of the genetic modification required to achieve the difference in nature and the natural knowledge of Jesus. God manifest himself in Jesus not only by directly enabling & communicating-with Jesus but also through the nature of Jesus the man. Jesus suffers such a fate on the cross to prove his love for us by showing he will suffer us; and not just suffer us in a small way. Choose to follow Jesus and love God. Desire to be with the one who finds you desirable no matter your flaws.

[@luz1939]

I agree these introductions are unnecessary, long, boring, distracting and lack any relevance. A waste of valuable time

[@danieltemelkovski9828]

When you're attending IRL, it helps give the lecture more of an "event" atmosphere than just listening to it online. Not everyone's cup of tea, of course.

[@Hbmd3E]

Im wondering why Tom is popular in Holland

[@anthonythistle1465]

Holland has a strong Christian history.

[@Hbmd3E]

@@anthonythistle1465 gotcha , Finally fish ! :) I think I failed with my joke too as no one pointed it out. C Tom _Holland_

[@BrianBoys]

@@Hbmd3E I was telling someone about this video and did not see the pun until the other person asked, "Tom Holland in Holland?" If he had gone over there as Tom Netherlands, he would have been a bigger hit.

[@Hbmd3E]

@@BrianBoys _"we're off to nether Netherlands"_ 🎶:)

[@asecanchorage7584]

Actually, on one historical and textual point where Tom Holland is mistaken here is in his statement that "sodomy" gets coined as by Pope Gregory as having to do with sexual immortality and that somehow that connotation is missing within the Scriptures. But this is clearly not the case. Within the canon of Scripture there are references to sodomy as sexual immorality and notably within the Christian corpus. I would offer the book of Jude (the NT Epistle immediately following 3 John and just before Revelation). I'll quote it for those not wanting to look it up: "... just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire." Jude 7 (cf 2 Peter 2;6). The historic precedence is not with Pope Gregory.

[@henrimourant9855]

Yeah but those verses just say "sexual immorality" not same-sex relations. What Tom Holland was saying was that Gregory the Great seems to have been the first to say that the reason God punished Sodom was specifically for the same-sex relations they were having, not "sexual immorality" in general. Also, just as a sidenote my academic study bible has a note for that passage in Jude that says the "unnatural desires" was referring to the fact that the men of Sodom wanted to have sex with angels but I'm not sure if we can know for sure what the author was talking about exactly.

[@Chucksta-iwnl-]

@@henrimourant9855 Let's not forget, same-sex relations still remain under sexual immorality. I'm sure the finer details of Sodom and Gomorrah remain important, but both are equally sinful.

[@henrimourant9855]

@@Chucksta-iwnl- I'm not a Christian so I personally don't think there's anything wrong with same-sex relations. But you are right that "sexual immorality" in the Bible and early Christianity includes same-sex relations but I was just saying that Holland was right that it wasn't until Gregory the Great that that particular aspect of "sexual immorality" became associated with the destruction of Sodom.

[@davidhawley1132]

@@henrimourant9855 It's interesting to me how the bible's normative view of sex is grounded in the Creation narrative, not in procreation (cf Roman Catholics) nor erotic love.

[@knowthycell]

My cover has Jesus crucified on it.

[@jeremywilliams3465]

The English version could not

[@Mutasis_Mutandis]

Same here.

[@woff1959]

I must disagree with his around 17 minutes and his version of South African history. It's a lie. The Afrikaners *bought* the land from the Africans, or else it was empty. The people who took the land by force (including from the Boers) were the British, as he also admits. A little less ANC history, please...

[@danieltemelkovski9828]

The thing is, you can't afford to buck the liberal trend on more than one thing at a time. Imagine he defended Christianity AND the Afrikaners at the same time - instant "Hitler" lol.

[@woff1959]

@@danieltemelkovski9828 Hehe, well, maybe he can't but I can.

[@dfstarborn]

Dutch people, make sure that you translate from the English King James bible and be not deceived by these modern versions which come from Wescott and Hort who were well known occultists and supporting agents of the Catholic harlot.. BE NOT DECEIVED.

[@camraid9]

king james bible is the one!

[@davidhawley1132]

By all means, read quaint old English translations of text that has not benefitted from the last 400 years of documentary and linguistic discoveries. Then, as Tom Holland points out, you can be purer than everyone else. Os you could get a different hobby horse.

[@grolstum211]

The only true bible is the one written in the original language with no modification i.e Koine Greek. How about you put the effort and learn greek

[@Samsgarden]

1st

[@gneurink2436]

Now your life finally means something.

[@Samsgarden]

Gert Neurink high five!

[@patwillsy]

He likes hearing his own voice. It is irritating how he won't let a natural conversation flow.

[@martkaseorg2369]

What a sensitive woman!

[@patwillsy]

@@martkaseorg2369 No, not at all. Dumb comment.

[@grolstum211]

He is extremely annoying in every debate I ever watched him in. I honestly admire how his opponent have the patience not to punch his teeth out.

[@geoffreynhill2833]

Extreme Semaphore Alert !!! 🤔

[@danielk09]

I like his book but his analogy comparing Christianity to radiation was very disrespectful especially when you consider how much we are indebted to Christian thought.

[@henrimourant9855]

My God. How was that disrespectful? The radiation analogy was used because it it creates a useful image in the mind of how Christian values (or values that have historic roots in Christian assumptions) are everywhere in our society without many of us noticing it. It wasn't disrespectful at all.