WHY ARE GAS ENGINEERS SCARED OF FLUELESS GAS FIRE. finding out if flueless fires are dangerous.

[@davidllewellyn7781]

One of the best videos (of any type) I've seen. Very, very informative

[@Adey308QV]

Great video. I have 3 flueless fires. Brilliant products. Had them over 10 years. Never had a problem. Just replaced all the cats.

[@chrisjones4500]

Thanks Derek..

[@mikepembo8297]

I'm not a tradesmen, nor a gas safe anything, but I stumbled across your videos for doing dot and dab plasterboarding and have to say your delivery and knowledge are entertainment in themselves - I'm enjoying watch someone who know' their trade in detail and who is willing to share that with others :)

[@tomkatgastraining]

Thanks for watching cheers

[@Voivi]

I've had flueless gas fires installed for over 20 years, and they are truly superb. Mine is capable of heating the entire ground floor of my open plan house. They are peanuts to run and heat up very quickly, but you absolutely MUST have a carbon monoxide detector fitted, along with the required ventilation. I've only ever had one catalyst fail, and the monoxide detector alerted me straight away of the fault. I would also like to add, that despite rumours of these fires causing condensation, I've never once had an issue with this. Personally, I'd never go back to a traditional, inefficient flue fire.

[@darrenfrancis9172]

Thank you for taking the time to up the video 👍👍👍👍

[@abuadammemon3968]

Well information, pluse helping me by asking him many questions, bless you Derek 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

[@tommyblackman7119]

Excellent video Derek. Worked on one of these while doing my initial candidate ACS.. scary back then an straight away I said. I’ll never fit one of these ...

[@LewisJMi]

Thanks, brilliant video to refer back to. Every days a school day

[@mikearmstrong2488]

Great I know what to look for - always gets me the "decorative" yellow flame

[@jasongittoes7299]

Fantastic video derek many thanks

[@monikanader9454]

Superb video, useful information. Thanks Derek 👍👍👍

[@cristyanchivu]

Great video. Thank you!

[@scudamore55]

Brilliant, thank you very much.

[@markhoward5780]

Great review , looking to get my father one of these and am know a lot more knowledgable

[@DavidJones-ci5yi]

Great video, I loved it and was so educational. Thank you

[@williamphillipson548]

Excellent vid and informative…. Can you come and fit a fire for me….. possibly without the apprentices 😱😂

[@faridratni9938]

This is excellent video to learn from

[@ek6868]

Excellent video Tomkat tanx for the upload👍

[@mohammednadeem7274]

Great video Derek, the ASD device test was cool aslong as you don't burn your hand.😂. Alot of valuable information for us to learn and put in to practice if we come around to these fires.. 👍👍😁

[@Ed-fp9rx]

another great video.

[@suheilhanna873]

Great one

[@barrydoherty636]

Great video, well done

[@robdegoyim4023]

Awesome content mate, thanks.

[@themadhatter4761]

Excellent, very informative thanks 👍👍

[@buckerooney2247]

Quick question. Can you have a flueless gas fire installed into a static caravan.

[@iqbalnuthoo1566]

Iqbal Nuthoo very well explained

[@mickbennett3456]

Had these back in the 70's ! Not quite the same but flueless gas fires in the hall and on the landing.

[@TheH0bbins]

Good video mate.

[@mj0n4id36]

Fantastic video. Well explained and demonstrated. Found it really interesting how you did *two* checks on the ASD. The first one which I’m pretty familiar with was blowing of the flame and counting the seconds until you hear the ‘click’. However, you then used your finger and blocked the hole on the ASD. Thank you for showing that! Normally on gas appliances such as cooker rings, oven, grill etc you would inspect the flame picture for signs of complete or incomplete combustion. However, in this case on this flueless fire you don’t need to inspect the flame because like you said it’s designed to give it a warm cosy look..? Thanks Derek 👍🏻 Asian Jon. Training.

[@jamalamin082]

Top vid, needed this 👌🏽👌🏽🔥

[@plumbertime]

Great video and knowledge. Obviously most would avoid fitting these due to lack of knowledge 🥴😂

[@pa_maj.MARTINI-van-MAN]

Good show Derek. What about a Butane gas fire? apparently Butane burns clean so no catalytic converter needed. Ventilation requirements for complete combustion is still needed of-course.

[@jeremylister89]

These fires connect with 8mm pipe, but my installer was a bit cheesed off as they don't specify the wall thickness in the instructions, so he used 0.6mm wall thickness about 2 foot of pipe. The fire seems to have low output. So is 0.6mm wall thickness correct? Fire is Focal Point Blenheim Catalytic natural gas.

[@Mike-ip8hg]

What do you think of the company cvo fires they have no glass in front of them.

[@tomkatgastraining]

Cvo do fires for chimney and no chimney I have never come across a flueless without a glass front but plenty of flued fires with no glass

[@Mike-ip8hg]

@@tomkatgastraining check them out I'm about to purchase there angel model id like yo know what you think. Also no catalyst converter in it either.cheers.mike

[@tomkatgastraining]

@@Mike-ip8hg sorry I don’t do that you need to speak to the manufacturers or suppliers

[@firesciencefireplaces]

Very informative - Love your insight Catalytic converter sounds cool but does it really serve any purpose? How does it convert? Surely Cracked glass will have absolutely no noticeable effect on combustion. How would you service a flueless fireplace?

[@pa_maj.MARTINI-van-MAN]

Catalytic converters produce a cleaner burn, almost complete combustion, so less carbon monoxide.

[@lostinthoughtscalminsilenc8167]

Where would we place CO alarms for domestic appliances?

[@tomkatgastraining]

Where the co alarm manufacturers instructions tell you to 👍🏻

[@1414141x]

On the RHS of the front door (outside) as you come in..

[@jeremylister89]

Over time, do you get condensation streaks on the inside of the glass? I had a balanced flue fire and after a year it was really bad. The cure was to run the fire at low heat for 10 mins and gradually turn it up.

[@RyoHazuki1]

I have a flueless gas fire and I've never had any condensation. I have noticed with my dads balanced flue one that it gets a bit condensated.

[@aaronjoyce1980]

Watched Aaron trainee 😁 top vid Derek 👍👍

[@osmelmuhendislik807]

super video ,, If there is yellow flame such as this example but combustion analyse's results are normal (there is catalytic converter) , is appliance ID or not?

[@tomkatgastraining]

The flueless space heaters have a yellow flame so passes flue gas analyser test then the appliances is fine

[@osmelmuhendislik807]

@@tomkatgastraining thank you very much ☺️

[@Lyndalewinder]

Don't these fires kick out a lot of moisture into the air when they operate? The CC won't get rid of that so there could be a potential condensation issue with them.

[@tomkatgastraining]

Not if they have the correct ventilation and room size if you get condensation problems there is normally a ventilation issue

[@martynjukes482]

@@tomkatgastraining I went to one recently. No vent and in a room about 20m cubed. The walls were dripping and the 80 year old lady there said she loves having a nap in front of it 😱

[@tomkatgastraining]

@@martynjukes482 good job you went to it or she could have had the big sleep before her time

[@1414141x]

@@martynjukes482 The amount of times I've ripped off sellotaped cardboard over vents in houses and when i've told them why they just say 'we've lived here for years and ther'es never been a problem !' No doubt as soon as I leave the carboard has been replaced. I used to make a note of the info i'd given them just to cover my back.

[@andrewmardell85]

@@martynjukes482 😆😆😆

[@efrygasservices6169]

Great video coving these fires pal. Whilst I have fitted many flueless, from a burley to focal point but I never trust the customers to have them serviced correctly and at the right time. I honestly now try and get customers to opt for a different heat source. Once I give the maximum heat output of the appliance to the customer and also inform them that they have to have a min 100cm2 vent within the same room, and show heat loss through that, they generally opt for electric on balanced flue.

[@plumbertime]

I’d always talk anyone out of a fire unless it was decorative! No need for a gas fire these days. Plenty of options

[@derekclark7545]

Never been afraid to fit a flueless gas fire, done my first one in 2010 if I remember correctly and that needed a new burner when I fitted it as it was outside the allowed KW from new, big argument with the manufacture on the phone but I proved it was incorrect and that everything was installed as per manual, even reported them as manufactures are not allowed to sell gas appliances outside of the requirements, anyway they sent a new burner that was within the KW allowed and I have serviced it every year apart from this year, as the owner moved. You just need to read the manual and follow the regulations to the tee and not take any short cuts.

[@squelch079]

Where would it get gas supply from?

[@1414141x]

????? Did you not see the propane bottle hanging off the ceiling ?

[@lazylady81]

I understand the ventilation is for combustion purposes but I was told its also incase catalyst fails.After watching this video Im inclined to think maybe minimum room volume is the reason for catalyst failure? Im confused. Are there any requirements for failure of catalyst? Best would be co tester if there art any id say

[@tomkatgastraining]

You could say it’s the size of the room the ventilation and the openable window that are implemented in case the cat fails not just the vent. If you think about it the vent is supplying fresh air for combustion if the cat fails the vent wouldn’t get rid of the co it would just supply more air to keep the gas burning.

[@lazylady81]

@@tomkatgastraining yes i agree but also how would a regular person know if the cat fails until its too late?

[@tomkatgastraining]

@@lazylady81 have their appliances serviced and checked every year

[@lazylady81]

@@tomkatgastraining Yes of course but customers don't understand the importance because some can't afford service costs. Plus everything could be good at time of service but 1 month later things could take a turn.CO detectors are the only way.

[@happyslapper07]

Hi so does that mean its AR if its the only source of heat in the room.

[@tomkatgastraining]

Now that’s the question if you looked in igem g 11 it wouldn’t even tell you this scenario but if you looked in most of the manufacturers instructions it would say must not be installed as the primary source of heat. I personally would class it as AR and advice the customer to have the fire removed and note it on all paperwork.

[@happyslapper07]

@@tomkatgastraining so what if they don't have any other source of heating meaning no radiator just that flueless fire in living room and baxi slimline 5 in bedrooms

[@tomkatgastraining]

@@happyslapper07 I would definitely AR the fire then as they would be using the fire a lot

[@happyslapper07]

@@tomkatgastraining do the baxi slimline 5 have fsd in them as there are two bedrooms with them in I know there room sealed.

[@tomkatgastraining]

@@happyslapper07 not needed as you say they are balanced flue and room sealed

[@harryandrew1277]

100cm2 air vent is that correct that's 1m2 I'm I right thinking that

[@tomkatgastraining]

Yes it’s correct but I think you think it’s a hole a meter by a meter but it’s not

[@harryandrew1277]

Hi sorry , your right...I'm getting mixed up

[@harryandrew1277]

@@tomkatgastraining Thanks for your great videos on you tube

[@ragsbiker7316]

It's a space 10cms x 10cms approx 6inches x 6 inches

[@lazenbytim]

Should you not confirm the ASD shutoff with a manometer??

[@tomkatgastraining]

If you can’t see or hear the ASD like on a back boiler you need to use the manometer but in this case you can see hear and smell that the ASD has shut down.

[@M20DAN]

Tomkat 👍🏻

[@leerolfe5332]

Awesome vid but basically as the vid shows these suckers are more hassle than they're worth. I'll continue to give them a wide birth. :)

[@lazenbytim]

Same I fitted one once and never did another. I just don't get why these are allowed.

[@alunroberts1439]

Am not in gas I do sparking came across this last week had a look find all interesting. FLUELESS GAS FIRE I say yes all sounds OK as my gas oven gas hob don't need one. Am told that it is the un burnt gas that is the problem I must find out more.

[@mynameis9739]

You gas hob and gas oven is not a source of heat it is a cooking appliance and depending on the size of the cooker could need a flue

[@lukedoherty8062]

@@mynameis9739 regardless it’s still producing heat. And our all gas range at 24kw has no flue. So what’s the difference between this an a space heater? When cooking maybe on for a good few hours especially on a Sunday.

[@navidahmed829]

Great helping video N a heating Leicester

[@petermallon316]

How on earth do you find an engineer to service one of these. Every gas safe engineer I’ve asked has said no.

[@lazylady81]

Ive writ all the info down as a guide so i can refer to it quickly incase i have to

[@6349cf]

you say 100 square centimetres, that's a very big vent. more than 3 feet. Do you mean 100mm

[@pizzablender]

10 centimeters wide and 10 centimeters tall make 100 square centimeters.

[@slendermanRblx]

I don’t get why a rad is required for these.

[@tomkatgastraining]

Because the rad is the primary source of heat the fires are not designed to be running all day because the room could get a lack of fresh air so no rad no flueless fire.

[@slendermanRblx]

@@tomkatgastraining I see. If I ever do become a fireplace installer I would never recommend or install flueless ones for my customers.

[@1414141x]

@@tomkatgastraining I was surprised about that requirement for another source of heating in the room . These days new houses can be so well insulated that even a 2kw heater could heat a room up adequately.

[@SuperWayneyb]

👍🤓👍

[@secondchance4498]

chris taylor

[@NeilRidley1]

Air vents too close 😁

[@tomkatgastraining]

So is it ID or AR 😁

[@NeilRidley1]

AR

[@adbitex]

I got one and I tested it on natural gas, propane which is supposed to be clean gas. The fact that the flame looks like that is because they wanted it to look cosy but the burning process is not correct due to insufficient air. The flame should be blue just like on your stove. This is total nonsense and very bad for your health. The safety system is very good though. Do not use it if you care about your health, you will not die but the air quality inside the room will be really bad.

[@tomkatgastraining]

I am sorry but your comments are incorrect. The POCs will only become bad for your health if the fire is installed incorrectly and not serviced every year

[@adbitex]

@@tomkatgastraining you may be right, that was my experience

[@pizzablender]

@@adbitex Indeed there is also PM2.5 and other particles and NOx.

[@johnnyllooddte3415]

WELL... DUHHHHHHH

[@ncooper8438]

No mention of water vapour and condensation or people with allergy to gas fire fumes.

[@tomkatgastraining]

If the room size is correct and ventilation is correct there should be no condensation also the fire gives off co2 if installed correctly and gives off less poc than a cooker or hob due to the low kw so guess you must be an engineer or general public who is scared due to being given the wrong information about flueless fires

[@ncooper8438]

@@tomkatgastraining I know nothing about them, but I do know that nitrogen dioxide is an irritant which is produced by burning gas and causes asthma symptoms in some people. Are NO2 levels specified or measured for flueless gas heaters, do the heaters come with a warning? Asthmatic a and those with breathing difficulties might want to avoid them IMO. Sorry.!

[@tomkatgastraining]

@@ncooper8438 as I said if the correct ventilation is installed and the room is large enough for the heater and throw in serviced and analysed every year there should be no problems. Obviously there probably is some people who could have a medical condition that could stop them having a flueless space heater but if you have a gas cooker or hob then there should be no reason why you couldn’t have a flueless fire.

[@jeffhobbins6160]

Too many are scared of these, they shouldn’t scare yo one bit if fitted to regulations and manufacturers instructions I’ve fitted quite a few and sadly never called back to service them! Not sure if the customers snuffed it! Who knows? Who needs refresher training with people like you on the net. No one.

[@1414141x]

Jeff . Did you ring or text them just before a year is up to tell the it should be serviced and how important it is to do so ? You can get extra business this way and customers feel you are looking after their interests.

[@Memories4lifemedia]

sorry wrong about being gas safe registered, not true gas safe registered "or competent" ie not taking payment and having the knowledge. I don't agree but that's the law. And I would say they can be more expensive to install especially if a black hole vent is needed. Core drill needed

[@tomkatgastraining]

Could you please show me in the gas regs, building regs or British standards that proves your statement. What you will find in these is to install, maintain. Service or repair gas appliances you must be a member of a class of persons which at the moment is gas safe registered. It also says you must be competent to work on these appliances meaning hold the relevant up-to date gas qualification so in this case it would be ccn1, htr1 and cpa1. But if you don’t hold the quotation and you do install this fire and you kill someone it’s ok because you didn’t get paid for it.

[@Memories4lifemedia]

​@@tomkatgastraining I have had this conversation with a few and I felt the same way you do. But i have had to rethink it, and if what you are saying is correct then it would say Qualified not Competent? If my qualifications ran out today am I now longer competent? It all hinges on what the definition of competent is and the BS and BR do not make this clear , as a gas eng I hate it but that's the way it is. I am not advocating it, it's wrong in my opinion. If someone in there own house installed a boiler following the manufacturers instruction to the letter and all the BS and BR. are they not competent? I know this could go on and on because there is no right answer to the situation of what complies as someone being competent.

[@tomkatgastraining]

Since they introduced the registration of gas appliances this made it clear. You are not allowed to install a gas appliance in your own home if you are not gas safe registered and qualified to do so as you wouldn’t be able to register the boiler with building control. You are correct if your qualification elapsed you are deemed incompetent so like you say we could go on. Thanks for watching and your comments cheers 👍🏻

[@fintonmainz7845]

Dangerous or not they produce a lot of condensation

[@steveffuksake]

Looks very cheap 😢