Struggling with octaves? Here’s what to do about it. (Biegel, Korepanova, Durso, et. al.)

Do you have trouble playing octaves in the repertoire? In this video, several Tonebase artists share their diverse strategies and solutions for this controversial topic, as well as looking at some infamous passages in Schubert's "Wanderer Fantasy" and Liszt's "La Campanella". Featuring Jeffrey Biegel, Robert Durso, Penelope Roskell, Henry Kramer and Asiya Korepanova; and hosted by Robert Fleitz.
tonebase gives you instant access to knowledge from the world's greatest classical musicians, performers, and educators. Learn more by visiting www.tonebase.co/piano?...
0:00 Who's afraid of octaves?
2:40 Opening the Hand Exercise
4:05 Strategies for Smaller Hands
5:08 Balancing the Hand
5:37 Wrist Flick Exercise
7:13 Octaves in Schubert's Wanderer Fantasy
8:42 Octave Passagework in La Campanella
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[@DaveTexas]

9:42 "…because you’ll die, and everybody will die, and we will all die…" Truer words have never been spoken about La Campanella!

[@BarnieSnyman]

Or Rhapsody no.6 . Or Erlkonig.

[@hk4672]

As a gym-goer pianist, the one piece of advice that I can give is: work on your triceps. Strengthening it will build stamina for octaves and being concious of it will really release tension from hands/wrists.

[@gixelz]

ehhh....go look at marthas triceps and tell me you can go harder with your big ones. i say this as gym rat lol

[@hk4672]

@@gixelzit’s literally just anatomy

[@hk4672]

@@gixelzalso, it’s not a matter of having big triceps but strong triceps and knowing how to use them. As gym rat you probably know the difference between strength and hypertrophy

[@Mofos_of_Metal]

As someone who has had numerous doctor/hospital/physiotherapy appointments due to over-practice - I have to emphasize that consistency and patience is the most important thing. Octave mastery is a marathon, not a sprint. Avoid too much tension and listen to your body when your tendons feel inflamed. Come back and practice the next day after some rest! Use the time you're resting your hands to study music away from the piano!

[@TheresaTV1]

Thanks for all the good tips! Not only are my hands tiny, but my 5th fingers are short 😭 Thankfully, they are perfect for playing reliable 7ths for jazz piano 🤣

[@user-yq2us4zo2i]

I just wanted to say this is the best piano channel for me! I love the people, the content, and everything about it, really. Thank you.

[@jean.marion]

It's worth watching just for the amazing performances of Schubert and Liszt 😮...

[@the_eternal_paradox]

every video form you guys is either awe-inspiring or amazingly helpful!!!! thanks for doing what you do, now it's time to go practice some octave-y pieces :)

[@moriokayuri]

The curling of the Second finger worked, thanks

[@pattirowland4782]

Hi I found your Channel because I was looking for videos on rotation. I really like your content and looking forward to watching videos.

[@noiselesspatient]

Octaves (plus LH stride) are why I became an organist 😂

[@MarcPlaysPiano]

9:39 "...because you'll die and everybody will die and we will all die." 😳😳😳 6:07 I feel like someone could write a very amusing etude with lots of cluster notes to practice this wrist flick exercise. And who knew curling the second finger would relax and help open the hand? Neat...I will need to try this.

[@peterpeper4837]

But you know what will happen if you get it wrong, right?

[@brent3522]

My teacher taught me to flex my upper arm a bit, just like how it would feel if you'd carry a chair with one hand. It releases any tension and heaviness away from the forearms and wrists, allowing them to be more nimble and do all the things that everyone talked about in this video.

[@safarygirl]

Way too much for me at the moment but really inspiring to get there one day. Thank you.

[@Matt-nv2qg]

@9:02 reminds me of the Moeller technique percussionists use, might be worth looking into

[@stefanbernhard2710]

Where is Mr. Laude?!

[@DavidFranklinDartMusic]

He started his own channel.

[@Persun_McPersonson]

"Switch between the fourth and fifth finger" Me, who can barely reach an octave with the first and fifth:

[@ryzikx]

i can reach it but it causes MORE stress with 4th

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Me who can casually reach a tenth, and an eleventh if I really try: "there is supposed to be tension when you play an octave?"

[@Daniel_Ilyich]

I love octaves…especially of the interlocking variety.

[@bartikoks]

Where is Ben Laude though?

[@bw2082]

He left to start his own channel

[@bartikoks]

I miss him here

[@Greg-kz8ts]

Right!? I don't like change

[@charlieplate9687]

Wish him the best

[@cgnotes]

@@bw2082wait wtf i thought tonebase was HIS platform 😭

[@kennethmheck1]

Raise your bench so that your elbows are above the keys. Octaves, especially fast octaves, will be easier to perform.

[@markcbeaumont4670]

You can use 1 and 3 occasionally for a smooth passage. If legato isnt being aimed at and all non classical styles usually 1 and 5 all the time

[@3dbadboy1]

When I was (very) young my teacher said I had the potential to be a really good concert pianist. The only problem I had was tension. My forearms burned all the time, lol.

[@ryptoll4801]

This is good advice. I can't for the life of me manage to do chords with an octave included because of this. I found a cheat method for doing octaves in melody though, by basically catapulting my hand from one note to the next. (Thumb to ring finger.) Even in legato it works, because the pause between the two notes is so small it's not audible. But problem with that method is that it assumes needing to play one note after the other, not both at the same time. I have really small hands and I feel like I can't reach no matter how hard I stretch my hands open. Especially my left hand, which has an even smaller span than my right. So with my left, I can barely even do 7th intervals.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Ahh, so almost very fast arpeggios.

[@galacticgardevoir9496]

*cries in 6.5 handspan*

[@crisoliveira2644]

6:11 Being and accomplished and well recognized musician is great. You can punch a Steinway & Sons and no one dares to say a thing. Now you, fellow mortal, do a cluster on one of the conservatory's DPs used in theory classes and watch all hell breaking loose... The secret of the octaves is hitting the right notes way louder than the wrong ones. Funnily enough, that's the secret for everything else on piano. 🤔

[@renkio]

Compound intervals are more the bane of my existence

[@gt4431]

My little finger is very short, I can barely reach an octave. My hands are very small for an adult. There are a lot of pieces I can't play. I play what I can and adapt the music for my hands' size.

[@ericaeli3807]

Apparently you can always invest in an alternative keyboard and get it fitted for your piano.

[@juliejules7780]

So anytime they play a concert somewhere she has to lug her piano around?

[@ericaeli3807]

@@juliejules7780no, if you have small hands you’re unlikely to become an elite performer doing Gaspard de la nuit by Ravel. And since you’re playing at home, investing in an alternative keyboard can be great.

[@Persun_McPersonson]

If you can afford it, look into "reduced-size" acoustic keyboard for an acoustic piano. The piano keyboard being standardized to such a large octave span is a problem with the system, not our bodies, that is thankfully starting to be addressed.

[@ericaeli3807]

@@juliejules7780unfortunately people w very small hands probably don’t win international competitions, just like 5 foot tall person is unlikely to play basketball competitively.

[@lucaottani]

Great video, very useful!

[@BurningSky9]

'You're playing octaves wrong' Imagine if Argerich watches this video. 🤣

[@johnb6723]

He's playing them his way. Lol.

[@benharmonics]

What recordings of the Heroic Polonaise and Hungarian Rhapsody no. 6 are used in the background?

[@tonebasePiano]

Hey, thanks for pointing this out! The Heroic Polonaise is Kissin, and the Hungarian Rhapsody is Cziffra. We'll be sure to include it in the video itself next time!

[@benharmonics]

@@tonebasePiano Thank you! I love how Kissin plays the first chord, it sounds so exciting! And I thought it sounded like Cziffra, but then doubted myself because I didn't hear Cziffra's signature extra chord that he adds to the ending of that piece 😂

[@DavidMich]

Can someone please tell me what the piece at 1:01 played in the background is

[@juliejules7780]

What if your hand is too small to reach an octave no matter what you do?

[@yulinxie6337]

nobody cares about us.. sending virtual hugs

[@Xzy_158]

I love octaves, but they do not love me

[@pekeninu]

yep... they allways leave you in the friend zone...

[@pianoplaynight]

Lots of interesting input and thoughts! The curling index finger doesn't work for me though, I can feel a lot of tension if I do that

[@yulinxie6337]

The "trick" of curling the second finger is bs... If your hand is small enough like mine, curling the second means the second would press down another key... I already struggle with not pressing down any key with my 1 and 5, I don't need to worry about 2 too...

[@erwansilvain2761]

i find octave easy because its pretty straight forward and not long to master

[@Daniel_Ilyich]

Why can’t I just gently caress the subscribe button?

[@corgisrule21]

I must have always done them wrong cause my wrists hurt even more when I have a song with a lot of them

[@frozengd]

Yo whats that first piece in the background music?

[@becklerwhittaker3005]

Chopin Heroic polonaise

[@florincoter1988]

How do you know how I play octaves?

[@francescofoschia624]

What’s the name of the piece?

[@benjaminpearlman2625]

Study bongos and percussions, and you will know how to play octaves. Same picnic.

[@M_SC]

What?

[@CatholicChristian593]

Russian school of technique always wins.

[@user-kd4np2lf3p]

Can't reach an octave, period. I need the alternative sized keyboard D.S. 5.5.

[@WalyB01]

oke but what about adding the third like the gnomenreigen run..... octaves run oke. That thing not oke....

[@Lordversus44]

I can't do trils

[@werq34ac]

She wasn't very good at those octaves... Do you not have a better example? That passage leads into the climax of the piece, you can afford to use a little bit of muscle for 15 seconds for some proper sound production. Octaves are marathon, you can't sprint it, but that doesn't mean you're walking the whole way especially if the composer writes fortissimo. Relaxation is a nice sentiment, but there's no way to play fortissimo octaves without some tension, and longer passages (like the Chopin polonaise) will inevitably build some tension. It does take some strength and endurance, and while it's good to teach ergonomic ways to use your muscles without straining yourself, your muscles are still contracting.

[@gixelz]

well no shit, you have to build some endurance. these techniques aren't going to apply to every bar

[@Watching58]

Baah haaa haaar! Make the hand the shape of your head. Great topic for a video. Comments have the best tips!

[@lefevreaymeric7809]

Octaves are much less pain than thirds for the brain and finguering... what about 10th😂😅😢

[@jasperfeldschuh3644]

still a useful video for me but am I the only person who always found octaves easy in comparison to other stuff? I'm much worse at fast tremolo kind of patterns and arpeggios than I am at octaves lol

[@gixelz]

"you'll die, everybody will die, we'll all die" 😅😅

[@pierfrancescopeperoni]

I'm playing them right, I swear.

[@danielplayspiano]

_moment_

[@onajourneytosomewherek8242]

simple. it's al in the thumbs. period. the biggest bone and muscle mass in the hand. practice octave passages with the thumbs only, and you balance hand weight and arm weight relax your shoulders, and you;re off to the races.

[@dkant4511]

Jeffrey Biegel trying to get y'all hurt😅

[@zdogg8]

Why don't American men (I guess I might be an exception) know how to wear a simple men's suit? The shirt length, the suit arm length or just general correct size? Why did that guy actually roll up his suit jacket like a shirt in the eighties? These are, let's imagine, performers, after all. Someone send them to wardrobe, quick.

[@belezyc]

Background music too loud. Im not english native language, that’s not helping.

[@KrwiomoczBogurodzicy]

I've always wanted to play this octaves part as Leszek Możdżer does: [ kzbin.info/www/bejne/bWTMiIyunKuFpM0m27s ]

[@not_gaminggamer521]

9:38 Oh... quite morbid technique

[@borkl3768]

What th is that wrist flick, don’t they know that’s totally the worst exercise you can have to play octave? This is literally mind blowing for me lol.

[@disinformationworld9378]

Completely useless. The correct way is with entire arm, but only if use the right movement.

[@borkl3768]

@@disinformationworld9378 yes, exactly. Wrist movements are just nonsense.

[@PaulVinonaama]

Such a stupid title.

[@bartikoks]

First

[@i.ehrenfest349]

Why are you paying god in euros?

[@floriaanvanbemmelen6512]

First