Toneri vs Kaguya | The Honest Truth

[@KamranCreates]

Thanks for having me on!

[@DragonixPlays]

Goated

[@xrinnegan]

I was wondering who that was talking NICEEEEEEE

[@jwall1646]

Toneri was gonna fold for Hinata alone while Kaguya resisted an entire harem of dudes. She clearly scales above.

[@hiddenmarco]

The fact somebody actually took this comment serious

[@zmartusers3396]

Facts 😂😂😂

[@iambugha-q1z]

kagyua would win plot

[@___________0Z0X]

But Hinata’s a baddie though!

[@bluedream2493]

Kaguya was choosing who gets to be in her sugar walls. She was sniffing the strongest of the species to produce stronger sons

[@oliverstrizak9958]

Up until Isshiki, all of the post Kaguya villains were so shit ability wise it's no wonder so few people genuinely think Kaguya would lose to any one of them. Toneri has a chakra cloak and laser projectiles, Kinshiki can make shitty red weapons, Momo can absorb chakra and throw it back, wow.

[@JKBlackClover]

Yeah I always thought it was weird that Kaguya had such op hax abilities and yet no villain since her has ever had such hax. Even characters that are implied to be stronger than her have nowhere near her level of hax. Insta kill ash bones, bfr to different dimensions, even her healing is on a completely different level. Hell the other Otsutsuki don’t even seem to have healing abilities. Just crazy stuff. Isshiki is way stronger than her but all he can do is shrink stuff? Did he put all his skill points into speed and strength? 😂

[@dimensionvisitor7689]

Even isshiki, ability wise he’s still pretty shit, his whole deal is just he can shrink his attacks and himself without nerfing the power behind them, so all his ability really do is just make him and his attack harder to track and hit/defend. Without his overwhelming raw power, his ability really doesn’t do anything. His ability just cannot help him beat a guy who has a higher raw stat than himself, which is why as soon as naruto pulls out bayron, he can’t do anything about it

[@bloster_ant]

@@JKBlackClover The thing is, her bones are in essence just ninjutsu, so it wouldn’t be too crazy to say that Momoshiki would be able to absorb it and throw it back at her, that’s one hax ability countered. Her dimension hopping isn’t nearly as deadly to people who can fly, seen as how Naruto was the least affected by the transfer to the lava dimension cause he could just do, and it’s completely irrelevant to people who can also just casually dimension hop like any other otsutsuki, that’s another hax countered. Genjutsu doesn’t work on otsutsuki and even the infinite tsukuyomi should be useless against them, that’s another hax countered. Kaguya’s actually the only otsutsuki we’ve ever seen have a limb chopped off, aside from Isshiki but that was his entire torso and that may have been done by her ash killing bone, meaning he’s strong enough to be able to nullify that, but that’s a moot point we just don’t know how that went down. But through normal means we have no reason to believe that any other otsutsuki can’t regenerate lost limbs. Even if they can’t, they clearly have much greater physical strength to be able to tank barrages of hits from massively stronger versions of Naruto and Sasuke, whereas Kaguya suffered real bodily harm from a much weaker Naruto. Even if you want to give Kaguya all her hax, that last point still stands, so what Kaguya has in hax, she suffers in physical stats, and vise versa for the other otsutsuki

[@fr0stdr4ke95]

​@@bloster_ant Kaguya's Ash Bones are Kekkai Mora. Since she predates all forms of Ninjutsu, it is likely just a Shinjutsu ability. Momoshiki may not be able to absorb them. As for Isshiki, he was and technically still is the strongest Otsutsuki, so Kaguya had to sneak him. Hell, Kaguya's army and constant prep was literally JUST to beat Momoshiki and Kinshiki. Urashiki could have beaten her.

[@bloster_ant]

@@fr0stdr4ke95 Yes the sheer strength of that kind of jutsu may prove too much for Momoshiki to absorb, but it’s still a possibility no matter how small cause it’s still made up of chakra. I like the interpretation that Momo and Kin didn’t know of her chakra fruit power up yet, and were therefore talking down on her because they were talking about the pre chakra fruit version. Kaguya would be much weaker than the both of them, but fly up to being over base Momo in strength, but not the pair of both Momo and Kin, preserving Sasuke’s statement of the both of them as a unit being a “greater than Kaguya level threat.” This still works with Kaguya creating an army because while Kaguya deals with Momo, she has the zetsu deal with Kin. Urashiki’s way weaker than the both of them however, so maybe he could beat pre fruit Kaguya, but again maybe he’d need his fused form, depends on how much weight you wanna put on her jumping Isshiki, but Urashiki is just a scout type tbh, not even having a pair so it’s very unlikely he could beat post fruit Kaguya.

[@Tempest1018]

DAMN IT HE MADE IT BEFORE I DID this goated ass video man

[@ThunderGodTG]

😭😭😭😭 great minds think alike

[@Maina980]

Tempest, it’s been 1 MONTH since your last upload😭😭😭

[@batguy39]

Negged

[@Tempest1018]

@@Maina980 shhhh😭🙏🏾

[@whoizray_]

my boy toneri finally getting talked about 🗣️

[@batguy39]

ONGGG

[@sev9258]

Finally bc he’s so underrated

[@akhandtripathipyz9888]

I forgot he existed 💀

[@unclephillymya]

do Swagkage vs Vacation next

[@batguy39]

Vacation negs

[@zirotsero6951]

Vacation: stand proud, you were strong, I will remember you for as long as I live Fraudkage

[@Foxes4035]

who comes back first Gojo or Swagkage ?

[@sageofthickcalves]

W video from 2 GOATs

[@davidsuper773]

A video on Naruto forms multiplier would be dope

[@ThunderGodTG]

Dudes don’t want to hear Naruto for the most part don’t got multipliers fr

[@clueXX.]

Interesting topic TG, great vid!

[@ShakaOMG]

DIDNT KNOW I NEEDED THIS 😭

[@ShakaOMG]

Bro thank you so much for doin content on the characters outside of the low hanging popular picks

[@ThunderGodTG]

My man ✊🏻

[@BryJamie]

So it took Naruto and Sasuke to actually not kill Kaguya(had to seal her), but it just took Naruto to stomp Toneri. That’s pretty damming all on its own.

[@choppsticc]

But Naruto was stronger when he fought Toneri

[@JuanAlbertoHernandezAlvarez]

​@@choppsticcYes, but Naruko does not use the Kurama form with Sage form during the battle, and it is until the end where Naruto concentrates all his power, and that ANNIHILATES Tomeri. Finally, Kaguya needed Naruto FULL power, Sasuke Rinnegan and Kakashi Double Kamui to defeat her and even then I need the seal to defeat her definitively.

[@KolaTheBear]

Kaguya is dead though

[@thund3r682]

Naruto got full form kurama when he fight toneri not half like in shippuden. He basically has kcm2 power added to his base.

[@xxxtimeghostxxx]

@@choppsticc naruto might be slightly stronger but not as strong as to be stronger than final self+ fv sasuke

[@xrim1139]

It’s blatantly shown that every villain after Kaguya outscales her

[@zerotwo8047]

Great video! As a translator, all the translations provided in this video are accurate.

[@ThunderGodTG]

Ahh glad to see we got the seal of approval 👌🏻👍🏻 glad you enjoyed!

[@CoolOkay_]

I was gon' call 911 for my unc, but TG uploaded 🙏

[@ThunderGodTG]

😂😂

[@CH1C4N0444]

Glad Thunder Woof covering this. Been having this match up in my head for a while. Good stuff, Bark God!

[@___________0Z0X]

It’s the bark guy!

[@CH1C4N0444]

@@___________0Z0X teehee

[@AhmedHussain-ju6xd]

I still think it's crazy that toneris tenseigan signle handedly let him compete with adult Naruto

[@thund3r682]

Well the requirements to get tenseigan is alot so it has to be powerful. Also, Toneri has otsutsuki chakra before getting tensigan so that probably helps him scale to adult naruto.

[@ThunderGodTG]

Toneri actually is pretty strong without it, his puppets can throw hands with base Naruto and survive hits + even without his chakra form he can just kinda beat down Naruto with some Hax, like detonating his chakra after removing it

[@itachi_1724]

Compete is a gross overstatement Naruto One shot him

[@see3deezz]

​@@itachi_1724 Yeah after a whole fight on the moon and then putting a hole through it

[@see3deezz]

It's not crazy at all he's an otsutsuki in base.

[@Psub950]

Momoshiki vs Kaguya please!

[@Wasnt-1]

toneri and momoshiki is above kaguya in terms of intelligence skils and battle iq but in terms of abilities and sets of powers kaguya drawfs both debunk me

[@hakai9397]

Momoshiki beats the shit out of her lol

[@manny9191]

Nah no need to debunk, you right. Alotta people don't realise this to this day tho...

[@Wasnt-1]

@@manny9191 yeah they think momoshiki and toneri is stronger than kaguya but none of them have even achieved anything near what kaguya had done

[@manny9191]

@Wasnt-1 they were fill in bosses to show the MCs got stronger

[@Ayomide296]

Kaguya is feared momoshiki

[@CH1C4N0444]

Also, find it funny that in Naruto, the Otsutsuki clan all just have random names (Kaguya, Hagaromo, Hamura, Asura, Indra, and Toneri), but in Boruto the Otsutsuki all have that suffix of -shiki (Momoshiki, Kinshiki, Urashiki, and Isshiki), with the exception of Shibai. Wonder why they decided to do that.

[@matthewmendoza1198]

Granted, it could just be because Kaguya is the only female otsutsuki so maybe she doesn't need to follow the naming convention, and then Hagoromo and Hamura being Human/Otsutsuki hybrids could have been named by the father (It's been a while since I watched the show so I don't remember if Kaguya's husband was still alive when they were born.)

[@CH1C4N0444]

@@matthewmendoza1198 This makes really good sense, holy shit

[@ThunderGodTG]

Bro COOKED

[@limbo9993]

I’ve also always assumed it was gender based, and that Kaguya ended the naming thing with her children because she resented the other Otsutsuki.

[@genius3121]

​@@limbo9993FACTS

[@isaacssjblue8403]

Good video I always had the option that toneri is stronger then kaguya especially from that statement saying “the strongest enemy”

[@___________0Z0X]

TG forgot to end the video by saying bye-bye.🥺

[@ThunderGodTG]

I DID FUCK

[@titantrainer592]

Kaguya was a bigger threat because the people defending from her were weaker, and the Sasuke being above Kaguya statement isn’t a statement from Sasuke, it’s straight up from the narrator

[@historyking9984]

Also looking at the Kaguya fight there’s some major differences . Kaguya was forced into that giant ten tails state due to the instability of the tailed beast and them resonating with Naruto’s attack and splitting apart. Lastly she has her root of time and space where she could absorb the Kekkei mora’s power and when she did she got even faster and stronger. If she absorbed that fully she’d be far stronger so we never really saw Kaguya’s full potential when she fought her sons.

[@rterrell641]

Oh shiz high tier naruto fights

[@benogle4951]

Video idea Background chunin/jonin leaf village free for all, characters like izuma, kotetsu, ibiki, ebisu which one of these ninjas would come out on top

[@joelonyeanula713]

Yesss

[@benogle4951]

@@joelonyeanula713looks like that virtue guy will be doing it soon

[@joelonyeanula713]

@@benogle4951 he’s a itachi d rider😂

[@benogle4951]

@@joelonyeanula713 well Itachi is not in the video so that doesn't matter and I wouldn't call him that

[@sebastianjoelirizarry8924]

I feel like Kaguya’s lack of physical abilities, iq and Biq weren’t touched upon enough. Kaguya is just a pure hax machine,nothing else.

[@ThunderGodTG]

She ironically is a physical monster the vaccum fist is described as the peak of taijutsu with here just being able to punch through the Susano’o with 4-5 smaller ones.

[@UNKNOWNL3G3ND]

I love how people use promotional material that itself doesn't prove Toneri being stronger than Kaguya as a means to put Toneri above Kaguya. Like not all new Naruto scalling metas are good...

[@ThunderGodTG]

Aye man

[@wowdude654]

Toneri has that good move where he drained all of Naruto’s chakra in like 1 attack so there’s that

[@ThunderGodTG]

That was a version of Naruto that ejected Kurama from himself so it’s unlikely he can do that to Naruto + Kurama

[@wowdude654]

@@ThunderGodTG I meant when hinata initially left with toneri. Back when sakura had to heal Naruto up and it caused that massive explosion. It was before the tenseigan fully manifested

[@ThunderGodTG]

Oh yeah that attack is solid I agree, I wish it was fleshed out more or had a quantifiable upper limit

[@Necromancer4267]

On one hand, how were the descendants supposed to defend the Gedo Mazo against summoning Jutsus...? But on the other hand, they didn't even make a move on Earth for like 70 years after the Gedo Mazo was stolen so.... nice fuckin job boys.

[@ThunderGodTG]

I’m sayin like did they just see it disappear and be like damn that’s tuff??

[@Necromancer4267]

@@ThunderGodTG They don't get paid enough moon bucks to step up on Madara

[@ItsRancio]

Nice, lets have more videos talking about six paths characther, particularly i would like to see a “you read naruto and sasuke vs madara wrong” or something like that

[@ThunderGodTG]

I actually have something like that in the works!

[@sebastianjoelirizarry8924]

Six made a similar video titled “Madara would’ve lost anyways” you might enjoy is

[@ItsRancio]

@@sebastianjoelirizarry8924 i’ve already watched it, nice vid, me personally i think wothout dms kakashi madara could’ve cooked

[@ThunderGodTG]

It’s not related to Madara

[@limbo9993]

@@ItsRancioI agree. Without DMS Kakashi or Obito helping, I think Madara could have won- or at least it could have gone either way.

[@brandonskates]

We making it out the moon with this one 🗣️🗣️

[@jurriandlc4555]

Yo the weaker Supernova from OP vs the Akatsuki is a cool vid idea

[@ProsperCypril]

Please do momoshiki vs kaguya

[@slimxjimki]

The lost courage ost from DragonBall is top tier 🔥

[@kongchengthao9764]

Great vid tg!!! So when’s the next upload? Any hints on what the next video is gonna be?

[@ThunderGodTG]

Hopefully have a double upload so 1 tomorrow

[@___________0Z0X]

I think it might be on something from Naruto. But I'm not sure.

[@hikkikomori1182]

i mean.. Toneri got wrecked with a single punch in chakra mode😶‍🌫

[@viciousbattousai4109]

I believe that the power scaling in Naruto goes up in every arc except for in boruto era I put haku < gara/ shikaku < cm kimimaro/ cm Sasuke < orochimaru < Itachi < pain < sm Kabuto < obito < Madara with either kaguya being equal to or at least relative to toneri

[@ThunderGodTG]

Yeah like it’s linear grand scheme but, then people like Haku are Kakashi level who is stronger than people like Gaara & Kimmimaro P1. Or how Itachi is introduced before the Gokage or other akatsuki members despite being an established benchmark above them.

[@viciousbattousai4109]

I'm not sure if Haku can beat Gaara or Kimimaro. Haku was holding back most of the time but we never saw any destructive feats. Like I don't see how Haku's ice sickles and mirrors could get through the defense of Gaara's sand or Kimimaro's cm2 bone dance.

[@DJ2BOOL]

Bleach vs Naruto debates ? Would be cool to see you user ur video topics on the bleach verse as well

[@akasakasad6271]

we heading into boruto content soon👁️?

[@ThunderGodTG]

I got a FEW vids in mind actually

[@batguy39]

W

[@Khieytel]

4:45 why would sasuke mention toneri when they never even met???

[@ThunderGodTG]

I mentioned this in another comment, it doesn’t matter that Sasuke doesn’t know about Toneri, it matters that Naruto takes the gravity of Kaguya level threats insanely seriously despite having beat Toneri, which doesn’t work if Toneri were massively above her.

[@treyaintserious]

@@ThunderGodTGyou could make the argument that Naruto takes a Kaguya level threat seriously because she would still be above a majority of the people in early boruto besides Naruto, Sasuke, and arguably Sakura so someone of Kaguya’s strength would still be an issue, causing warrant for him to be concerned

[@zmartusers3396]

Also, Naruto never used Kurama avata mode against Kaguya after seeing what she did to Sasuke's Suusanno twice. Smacked it aside like mosquito.

[@ThunderGodTG]

I actually think I mention something like that in the last 3 minutes ironically

[@DarkWorldxo]

Nice vid

[@dimensionvisitor7689]

20:15, I don’t think this is solely because of power, it’s more so because the immortality, as even against one eye god tree madara, naruto and sasuke’s only win con is still that yin yang sealing jutsu despite the fact that they are stronger than one eye god tree madara

[@ThunderGodTG]

I disagree partially due to the fact Outstuski CAN be killed despite being immortal essentially, Momoshiki is probably the best example where he gets beat down so severely that he just dies to a regular rasengan. That or you can argue they beat Madara down before actually sealing him when weakened.

[@dimensionvisitor7689]

@@ThunderGodTG momo and the boruto era otsutsuki might just have a worse version of immortality tho. I'm not saying this is a fact, it's just from displayed showing, kaguya, due to her ourscaling madara, has a higher level of immortality. in terms of survivability, we never see boruto era otsutsuki survive a fatal blow such as getting their bodies blown apart, while pre god tree madara who got like about 1/3 or 1/4 of his body turned to paste and is only "almost died" and post god tree he consider himself as completely immortal, which can be interpreted as him considering a similar damage is no long a threat to him (he also just completely no sell sasuke cutting him in half). team 7 also don't seem to think a hypothetical kamui to the brain can kill kaguya

[@ThunderGodTG]

I actually don’t have a problem with this take although I will note, Madara does say guy almost killed him straight up kinda implying with enough damage he CAN die, but I’m not super opposed to it generally speaking in the case of Ten Tails Jinchuriki.

[@dimensionvisitor7689]

@@ThunderGodTG I guess it's really just up to interpretation, nice to have the talk.

[@ThunderGodTG]

Ofc course appreciate the convo

[@RexDolo]

Naruto using bsm against toneri is an animation mistake that’s caused by the movie being in development before naruto gained six paths in the manga , sasuke has a similar mistake where he’s shown with his rinnegan turned off in the movie , we blatantly see naruto using his flight ability that he can only use in six paths mode against toneri , the eye pigment is just an animation mistake

[@ThunderGodTG]

While I do agree with you that this is def the case we do have to accept that this is the form he used against Toneri, like it’s just canon animation mistake or not. The last takes a lot of liberties with Naruto having Kurama not being in his avatar form on the moon and such so it’s not exclusive to Naruto. Sasuke’s Rinnegan is a much smaller point to the grand scheme of things than Naruto’s form but, we just kinda have to fill in the points for it.

[@theblacksakura8732]

I think the real reason they don’t mention him is because the whole thing around toneri also reveals that a few of the villages were actively breaking the conditions of the treaty by having their own advancement of different technologies and military power. Remember the Raikage was willing to blow up the moon because he was gonna throw it at the planet. And as for momoshiki his whole goal was to the claim the lost chakra of the tree kaguya not only to of herself but ended up losing and being spread across the planet… if that wasn’t his goal I’m sure he would of just nuked the whole planet…at the end of the day kaguya just made the the world more aware of threats from space and to have more countermeasures against foes they can’t fight by normal means. So of course later villains up to isshiki wouldn’t look as strong as her

[@Crimsonking468]

TG Could you make a Sasuke Uchiha vs Aizen Video?

[@HeOfTheBeginning]

The Naruto that faced Toneri scales above Kaguya and obliterated him with a single punch. Kaguya is not going down to a single punch. Even if it's from a stronger Naruto.

[@ThunderGodTG]

Why does the Naruto that fought Toneri scale above Kaguya in BSM?

[@HeOfTheBeginning]

@@ThunderGodTG While Naruto doesn't use Six Paths Sage Mode in that fight, he could have, I'm not saying BSM Naruto is above Kaguya, but he's still capable of SO6P Mode which would scale him above if that makes sense and he used a lesser variation of SM to beat Toneri

[@ThunderGodTG]

I think saying he’s closer to her with SO6P is absolutely fine although tbh you can actually argue she’s still > but it kinda depends how you interpret the novel statements and Naruto in relation to sasuke

[@batguy39]

Finally The Last lil bros

[@LuiopK]

Kaguya has centuries of experience wheras Toneri is a relatively a recent character.

[@ChrisTookFlight]

Idk bruh Shueisha pretty much owns Naruto that Toneri strongest enemy statement might be enough for me

[@ThunderGodTG]

They co own the IP but saying shueisha owns everything and that makes it right would make the storm canes all canon

[@Kryptic496]

You should do a video about hagaromo and hamura vs every version of naruto and sasuke👀

[@manny9191]

@Kryptic496 hagoromo after the kaguya battle bodies every version of naruto and sasuke then you add his brother on top? That's rough lol

[@2406west]

Hagaromo slams. Idk maybe baryon mode wins

[@manny9191]

@@2406west well thing is hagoromo has creation of all things which is like infinate izanagi, plus unlike the other otsutsuki he doesn't need a karma mark to come back just someone with his chakra which is anyone on earth who then happens to gain enough chakra to let him come back

[@2406west]

@@manny9191 Himaromo taking his rinnegan and 6PSM back

[@Champeonic]

Could we get a limitless Code vs Jigen vid at some point?

[@ThunderGodTG]

I’m gonna be doing a Kara ranking soon so it’ll be included

[@LuiopK]

I feel like Kaguya wins just because she went against six paths users Kakashi Naruto and Sasuke. Unless Toneri is on that level he's destroyed.

[@itachi_1724]

Kaguya Played with Six paths Naruto and Six paths Sasuke She was never Overwhelmed or Overpower by anything they did The One shot Seal is the only reason she was defensive and Used ranged attacks and Stayed away from Hand to Hand Kaguya Is The strongest in the verse hands down According to boruto She has true immortality death doesn't kill her Apparently she dies when she is sealed She was sealed by the same thing once before So she is immortal Isshiti dies its over no afterlife no Ghost Just gone Thats why Momoshiti Bonded to Boruto He would have been gone if he didn't do that Abilties Skills Stats all go to kaguya Easily Also our moon is hollow The moon in naruto has a mini world inside with a sun ocean land atmosphere and Gravity you have to factor that in Its a Feat toneri cut all that But its a way better feat that naruto tanked it no damage Lastly chakra directly equals stats It is both Physical and Spiritual forces Meaning if your chakra can do it you scale to If you send out chakra and pull down 2 meteors you can physically do that as well We see it in the Last Naruto Lost almost all of his chakra and it exploded point blank He took it with his body and got no damage How did he tank with no chakra against his own chakra (The lack of chakra is what almost killed him Not the chakra that blew a hole in the non hollow moon) Your chakra scales to you So kaguya who has the strongest chakra the most chakra She is top 1 Finally she Believed 100,000 white zetsu was enough for Momoshiti and kinshiti And What's funny is He got beat by the Guy who dealt with them naruto😂

[@om9959]

She literally died after being sealed away ,not counting both momoshiki,isshiki,naruto and saskue were blatently above even in base.Momoshiki can create hyperspace universe in novel and can crosses galactic distances within hours and has eaten multiple fruits.They both clapped her badly.Also even small rasengan from adult naruto can practically clapped all of shippuden all at once.

[@itachi_1724]

@@om9959 if she is unsealed with Naruto and Sasuke could do to this day She will come back from death Isshiti and momoshiti fear death She is a true immortal And no She nearly one shot killed 100% Isshiti before eating earths massive chakra fruit If you really think there is a gap it's goes kaguya>>>>>>>>>>>Isshiti momoshiti kinshiti How do you think she got to earth by traveling through dimensions She is possibly Thousands of millions of years old who knows how many fruits she ate Earth is unique because it has nature energy (it's why earths divine tree and fruit is massive compared to the pill fruits momoshiti ate) something foreign to otsutsuki we know this Maybe that's the reason she nearly killed Isshiti Regardless She has more hax more feats true immortality and way more chakra remember chakra is both physical and spiritual forces combined So it directly translates to physical stats and mental attacks Kurama was Too much chakra for Momoshiti He got half in 5 hours Kaguya dwarfs the ten tails (a piece of kaguya's will to get chakra back and is a part of kaguya) who dwarfs kurama And half of kurama's chakra is Too much😂 Momoshiti a bum Isshiti a bum Shibai a bum who is dead

[@allmight3221]

like comment watch. This should be a good one

[@semijoker7682]

Now I want to see a video showing how all of the Klan compares

[@ThunderGodTG]

HUH?!?!!?

[@jakejax8032]

What’s the song playing during the first few minutes of the vid? I’ve heard it before it sounds so familiar

[@nuhscott9058]

Can do this for kaguya vs momoshiki I feel like there's not much to say he's stronger than her a well (and most people just use vague statements like they do with toneri)

[@juliusnovachrono4370]

This is a really good video but Toneri looks cooler. Kaguya's Byakugan looks interesting.

[@TheEternalFlame57]

This argument is cool and all but I like Toneri more so Toneri wins

[@ThunderGodTG]

Ngl he do be looking ICY

[@bigbangrafa8435]

Being cooler than Kaguya is a very low standard my friend, even freaking Momoshiki passes that test.

[@see3deezz]

​@@bigbangrafa8435nah

[@RankingMaster11]

What’s the background music for this video tho 👀👀

[@ThunderGodTG]

Budokai 2 OST - “Lost Courage”

[@simply-naji3962]

W vid to listen to when you cutting the grass

[@yungxtsunamiyt8996]

toneri gets fondled by his older cousin

[@sethreddick1181]

Who’s his older cousin

[@___________0Z0X]

* Violated by his great grandmother.

[@yungxtsunamiyt8996]

@@sethreddick1181 i thought about it after i typed it but didnt feel like changing it to ancestor or great great great grandma +20

[@Crimsonking468]

TG I suggest you do a Isshiki vs Kaguya the Honest Truth because I’ve seen some Ratty and Disingenuous Takes on how that Battle would go.

[@sev9258]

Should’ve been Juubimadara against Toneri ig

[@kazden276]

Idk might be selfish but i wanna see tg do a video on how/if kaguya could survive momo and the fast man

[@jamest1242r]

Naruto final punch does look like it was all his might too. So that seems legit.

[@edocursedmark2693]

Strongest enemy U just said its promo from shuasha …it still has credence 4:36

[@gene2208-b7o]

do kaguya vs kinshiki

[@kenrock7227]

Not from shonen jump next statement its from a shonen jump magazine 💀

[@ThunderGodTG]

Kamran did know he just mispoke there

[@kenrock7227]

@@ThunderGodTGi figured just being stupid

[@akhandtripathipyz9888]

Grandma negs 🗣️

[@edocursedmark2693]

18:30 20% hollow 😮‍💨

[@InMasoWeTrust]

5:09 why would sasuke mention toneri as a bench mark if he’s never met toneri

[@ThunderGodTG]

It doesn’t really matter that he hasn’t met toneri, what matters is that Naruto takes the severity of Kaguya as such a threat despite beating Toneri. If Kaguya was below he would just be like “nah bro I’d win” but it’s not the case

[@InMasoWeTrust]

@@ThunderGodTG that makes sense also u the goat frl

[@ThunderGodTG]

appreciate that brother

[@justinsarfo829]

@@ThunderGodTG She was a "bigger" threat because she was the closest to ending the shinobi world and all of earth through her infinite tsukuyomi, not because she's more powerful than him.

[@ThunderGodTG]

I’m sayin

[@adrified9352]

Toneri < Kinshiki < Momoshiki < Kaguya < Isshiki

[@owensilva9224]

Yo thunder god can you make a Sakura video and more boruto videos

[@edocursedmark2693]

4:43 whoa its not retconned its all cannon kishimoto literally came out abd said it

[@Arcadia_warlic]

6:30 Technically this is narration over Kakashi's observation, not Kakashi's thoughts itself. Not that it changes the conclusion. Sasuke's assertion is also narration, it would seem strange for it to make an absolute statement if he were incapable of stopping it. 7:29, 9:10 Even without a statement that is agiven since Kurama itself was ejected from his body and was fighting a golem off-screen. That Naruto essentially without Kurama is a massive factor that most do not consider. 10:15 Retsu no Sho indicates their bases did not get significantly stronger. Says they only got a "bit stronger" in relation to their superior physiques having grown up a bit. Not sure the Six Paths boost really affected Naruto's base, either. 10:43 Some statements put Gaara closer to the jōnin-level (noted to be above chūnin just from his suppressed performance in the Forest of Death by not getting a single scratch) or above (Sunagakure's greatest weapon, implication of superiority to Baki, a jōnin himself, noted to have beyond most chūnin or jōnin abilities in Hyō no Sho). Still likely weaker than Haku, though, yes, but he drop-off is not that massive. 14:00 If the Tenseigan retained Byakugan vision, he could just literally see the portal opening behind him (though he would likely be too slow, yes). "Kaguya makes a free use of chakra that surpasses even Madara's and dreadful abilities." 17:45 Beyond her Vacuum Fist and Rabbit Hair Senbon arguably cliffing the prodigious Hyūga Clan altogether, Kaguya has used Kāma in the past, and Kāma give a major power-boost to vessels, which, as Code explains, primarily comes from the hundreds of years of combat experience from the celestial being. Unless Kaguya has the weakest Kāma ever, which seems unlikely, she does actually have quite a bit of combat experience, it is just that she knew to listen to her own will. 20:16 They were not considering killing her since Naruto wanted to rescue the bijū. Only Sasuke would have really tried killing her, and he was still adapting to his Rinnegan throughout the fight, so it is not really clear if they could or not could kill her if they all poured their focus unto that. I agree she is still stronger, though. 21:11 The Zetsu were not finished. The one Zetsu golem that gives Konohamaru trouble is a better example since that one unit seems to be much stronger than the ones seen in the war, and even that was starved, and likely incomplete. Kinshiki is equal to or greater than a Sasuke greater than the one from Sasuke Shinden who was confident he could beat someone stronger than Kaguya. Kinshiki≥Sasuke⋙Kaguya (at least).

[@ThunderGodTG]

A lot of this is good although my contentions are heavy with Kinshiki > Kaguya as he only clashes with Sasuke who is heavily fatigued via portal use, so even putting him >~ is a heavy leap. A similar Sasuke post portal use can combat fused Momoshiki alongside fatigued Naruto so Kinshiki isn’t REALLY that relevant in the conversation.

[@Arcadia_warlic]

It is stated broadly that Momoshiki and Kinshiki are not inferior to the Hokage (and by proxy, the Sasaukage), Sasuke was not stated to be fatigued during the original encounter with Kinshiki in the manga (and still failed to do more than cut off a horn), and even with the warp, Sasuke was not so taxed that he lost the tomoe in his RInnegan like in Naruto Gaiden, and Kinshiki was still arguably beating him without help (Kinshiki was also going to kill him in the stadium if not for Shikamaru saving him). As for fighting Momoshiki, they are more than 1 + 1, as Momoshiki could have beaten either of them alone (or likely either of them doubled).

[@ThunderGodTG]

Where is this stated the movie novel or promo material? Sasuke only loses the Tomoe after seemingly going to and from another dimension, but, the fact that 2-3 can actually remove the tomoe from his sharingan /rinnegan means it is a decent chunk of his chakra pool. Sasuke can be fatigued or not at 100% s without them being explicitly noted especially when we have previously established info. The underlying idea is that opening portals does consume a large amount of chakra with him constantly having to be aware of his chakra supplies to even have a way to get home like vs Jigen, he can still be losing stamina without it needing an explicit statement, just like how he could have been preserving his strength against Kinshiki as his prerogative wasn't to outright win but, escape with the scroll he had. Sasuke can questionably be included in the Gokage ranking's as his ranking is much less official, Kohohamaru states as much with his inclusion being variable. Kinishiki in the stadium was attacking a Sasuke without his sharingan active or even actively enganging the fight prioritizing saving Sarada so it's a bit dishonest to use this as an example. I don't disagree Momoshiki is more than likely >~ however this does depend on what version of the fight you use, in the Manga Naruto is very evenly matched and shown having the edge even on Momoshiki only being overwhelmed via the Stone Golem. Naruto & Sasuke scaling to Fused Momoshiki while having used a heavy stamina draining move or Naruto having large amounts of chakra absorbed.

[@Arcadia_warlic]

The Kinshiki and Momoshiki = Hokage comes from an guide directly for the Boruto anime, and the 1 + 1 comes from the novelization, but it is also repeated in the manga summary which states they would need to join forces (and possibly use Boruto) to defeat Merged Momoshiki. Sasuke always has his Sharingan + Rinnegan active, he cannot turn it off, and he was going to fail to even save Sarada when Kinshiki brought the axe down. In the novelization, even before he grabs Sarada, Kinshiki damages him through his Susanoo defense.

[@hobbyhorse5848]

I’d read all this but I’m doin a line rn

[@damianmorningstar3150]

the only argument you can give for Toneri is the fact that Naruto is much stronger in the Last more training as well as another half of the nine tails but then you have to argue is 3 years of Training + the other half of the Nine Tails worth a 8 Gates level Amp from Boil Release

[@josiahcmiller]

My perception has always been that Toneri is as strong as Six Paths Madara.

[@batguy39]

🤔

[@mrstealcar4702]

caughing baby vs hydrogen bomb

[@J-gritty]

Toneri can definitely hold his own against Kaguya but I think Kaguya win with high-difficulty

[@thewayofyomi]

It's so funny. Sasuke is just as strong as Naruto but we have no feats of that. Every major fight, Naruto is still saving Sasuke but they are equal. Yeah okay!!

[@edocursedmark2693]

10:38 thats literally what happened wtf

[@Crimsonking468]

I don’t care who this Man Toneri thinks he is Kaguya would just have to BFR him to the Gravity Dimension shoot him with an All-Killing Ash Bone and then he’d be Disintegrated into Ashes at Absolute Best I can only see Toneri giving Kaguya a Low Diff Fight with Extreme High Balls Mid Diff but in no way would Kaguya Lose.

[@doejhonny]

I dont know who this toni is. I watched Naruto : The Last when it came out. As I recall, it's a 30 minute special animation of Hinata knitting an ugly sweater.

[@diamantemrobinson]

Do we actually know how powerful base Six Paths Sage Mode is? We've never seen Naruto use the actual base state. When it's first shown he has the sun seal which contained half of Hagaromo's chakra meaning he was heavily amped. Hagaromo is far more powerful than the Juubi so it makes sense the version we saw in the war arc was above BSM.

[@ThunderGodTG]

It’s just outright stated to be stronger than Kurama Mode in Databook 4 which I actually forgot to include, it’s listed under Naruto’s six paths section. The sun seal is also just for the sealing jutsu it doesn’t actually amp Naruto.

[@jacksanity7508]

Toneri didn’t even warrant so6p mode

[@edocursedmark2693]

The narrative isnt focused on the strongest people in the beginning 11:15

[@c2dholla]

I still dont see how any otsotsuki that we have see are stronger or even close to kaguya power based of display of feat

[@j_official4138]

toneris eyes literally originate from kaguya. enough said

[@larryfoster8820]

Well isn’t she still technically still alive. I’m surprised she never put a karma on anyone but I guess that would be black zetsu?

[@dragondrakage2402]

Why does everyone seem to think having a bigger chakra reserve make you stronger? By that logic wouldn't kid naruto ne stronger than about every ninja on konoha. Or even teen naruto after the timeskip Naruto gaining the other half of ninetails shouldn't actually change his strength so much as his overall chakra pool. It's like saying the same model truck getting a bigger fuel tank makes it a lot faster

[@Robbieuchiha]

Tg question do you think 3 eyed jubidara is relative to six paths naruto and sasuke me personally i think he is I think he’s stronger than either of them individually but there stronger than him 2v1 even though I think he would put up a great fight i just think jubimadara is downplayed like crazy people think naruto and sasuke during the 4th war are multiple tiers above him which isn’t the case

[@limbo9993]

Agreed. One on one they were never gonna beat him, and 2v1 he can still win but it can go either way. Against Kaguya they needed DMS Kakashi, Obito, and Sakura. Strictly 2v1 against Madara can go either way imo.

[@semnome2590]

I was thinking, can't Kaguya use the infinite tsukuyomi like any other genjutsu? Like, use individualy on the opponent? Cuz Madara just used the moon to reflect the genjutsu to the rest of the world, she should be able to cast the ilusion on a normal target in a battle.

[@treyaintserious]

That's not how the Genjutsu works…

[@elhood4060]

Kaguya is broken The entire fight was just for both of then to touch her at the same time 😂

[@cattusstroffic1243]

Do you think Naruto fist bumped with all bijuu before they went back to their territories?

[@StarKushExoticGalaxy]

Toneri!!!!!

[@takatotakasui8307]

So the only way to scale Toneri above Kaguya... is to just assume Toneri is above Kaguya without evidence

[@ThunderGodTG]

Feels good scaling fr

[@mirror857]

Before watching I will say that mommy Kaguya folds this fraud Toneri. How can you be from the alien god race and still move like that? Toneri just felt weak, I will not lie; the Tenseigan gives you ass abilities for how difficult it is to obtain; nah, Kaguya wins

[@ichigoat1316]

I think a point of contention I have with the scaling is yes Naruto in a weaker form than So6P and is in a kind “mastered BSM” but in the scaling it sounds like Naruto’s base is assumed the same level as it was verses Obito which I think we all know isn’t true, we also see Naruto briefly clash with Rinnegan Sasuke in base in the manga, while I’m not saying base Naruto ≈ Rinnegan Sasuke, I think this feat is something clearly beyond pre six paths Naruto scaling, so his base should be significantly stronger now add KCM2 with an extra 9 tails and sage mode, I’m not claiming Toneri is stronger I’m just saying in the vid it felt like Toneri was given his minimum scaling I mean he was compared to Juubito lol, the hax portion is just correct tho lol, I just think you can argue him in the six paths Madara, Sasuke, and Naruto tier, he may be weaker than him but based on base Naruto’s massive strength boost I would say he’s stronger than a Juubito tier combatant, I think Naruto in two years does likely significantly close the gap between forms especially with an extra 9 tails, this is kind of a long rant to say I think Toneri is stronger than portrayed in the video but probably still loses to Kaguya because of a lack of info on his part likely performing in a similar way to Naruto or Sasuke if they’d fought kaguya individually which in series is shown to not be a sustainable battle for those characters (If anyone reads this thank you lol I really waffled) it’s a good video I just think the base Naruto strength jump could’ve been mentioned as a charity to Toneri

[@ThunderGodTG]

I actually don’t disagree with a lot here my only issue with these types of arguments and its corny af to say is that we just don’t have an accurate or solid way to quantify their strength increases especially since the feats & statements are made at varying points in the timeline. On all accounts they should just be shooting up linearly and probably are but, again we just don’t know how strong exactly they are especially in Naruto’s case in base. I also do agree we were a little mean to Toneri lmao I swear the arguments for him are just so bad and have been used so often we had to.

[@ichigoat1316]

@@ThunderGodTG nah I definitely understand I mean video is correct and a good video I learned a good bit as I was under the misunderstanding that the Toneri statements were reputable, I agree with you on the growth being linear I may have overhyped him a bit in my comment ngl lol

[@ThunderGodTG]

Nah I 100% understand it appreciate the love on the vid