Could Orochimaru REALLY beat Jiraiya?

[@Purppurppurpp]

Six is a twink light skin

[@CoolOkay_]

So real, get that nga outta here. 😔🙏

[@armando3168]

Green fn😔

[@logic-dy1su]

Actually he's my lightskin femboy get it correct nga

[@takatotakasui8307]

Why did he pin this

[@SUPREME_N]

“twink” and “six” could never co-exist

[@CarthusDojo]

finally Jiraiya agenda being pushed. been tired of all the slander

[@AiLearning-oh7mp]

oh gyatt

[@The_Emperor823]

Imo Orochimaru445 takes it (I haven’t watched the video so we’ll see)

[@stephenking2895]

Slander?? The guy gets glazed more than itachi these days

[@christopherbrownington]

The goat Carthu knows what’s up, Jiraiya is strong asf but people wanna glaze Orochimaru for some reason

[@christopherbrownington]

@@stephenking2895ok u honestly don’t believe that do u

[@JayJayNoelastnam]

Jiraya's versatility is slept on. He has a lot of jutsu and battlefield altering abilities.

[@LokiTheClever]

I think with prep time he could have beaten Pain (by disabling the towers or something)

[@marvinpolanco2227]

Bro has a crazy arsenal of frog jutsu, peak.

[@vaughnjackson6297]

Exactly

[@charleswhitefullbusteruchi1972]

​@@LokiTheCleverno amount of prep time would have been enough to bridge that gap

[@Kmarks_]

Speed feats > abilities

[@marshalboyd3664]

If Jiraiya starts in sage mode, then I can see him winning, but there's no way Orochimaru is giving him five minutes to charge it up otherwise.

[@EternalWanderer657]

If he could against Pain, he could against Orochimaru.

[@marshalboyd3664]

@EternalWanderer657 If they fought in the Rain village or some other such large location with numerous hideaways, then I could see it. Though you also have to keep in mind that Jiraiya only fought the Animal path's summons while trying to enter sage mode. Was it still a difficult pursuit? Definitely. But I doubt Jiraiya would have been able to do it if all six paths showed up at the start. But Orochimaru isn't Pain, and hasn't shown any real sensory abilities, so given the same terrain Jiraiya would probably have a better time hiding from Orochimaru then Pain.

[@HC-gm4fo]

@@marshalboyd3664He has his own space time

[@marshalboyd3664]

@HC-gm4fo Okay, let's hummer this. Jiraiya summons the toad stomach and hides inside for five minutes, gathering nature energy. Why would Orochimaru stand there waiting for him? As far as I'm concerned, the fight ends there because Orochimaru would just leave.

[@dominicwoodford5711]

@@EternalWanderer657 He only did against Pain bc Pain wasn’t going all out

[@morgatron8697]

Six, form the bottom of my heart, thank you for actually making fair and logical vs battles. I wish every Naruto content creator was like you. You literally make my day.

[@slevinchannel7589]

What about Dygo Knight and his Nartuo Rewrite?

[@AhmedHussain-ju6xd]

Honestly, if hiruzen didn't lock away his arms. Orochimaru would have become a monster

[@mattys6106]

Why and how? His story would have gone the same way. Eventually got a zetsu body and the rest is history

[@Josephextreme]

​He woul​d have dog walked Tsunade and frog man at the same time if he had his jutsu arsenal. Remember they were both drugged or nerfed@@mattys6106

[@williambarrett2565]

It literally prevented him from taking over one if not thee strongest hidden village. That’s insane.

[@mattys6106]

@@williambarrett2565 I’m assuming he’s saying orochimaru still had to retreat and not acquire konoha, but didn’t lose his arms in the fight…

[@Bell_Cat639]

​@@mattys6106He'd get Sasukes body with 3 years to constantly master it

[@chronoflame4438]

Good video but I disagree with a couple of points and ultimately think Oro wins or wins 7 times out of 10. 1. The four tail naruto feat is more impressive on Oro's end. He was sick and in a body that's rejecting him while also fighting a stronger naruto than Jiraiya did. 2. Sausake felt he was only able to beat Oro because he was sick. So he must have some way to avoid genjutsu if at full health. Being put under a genjutsu by a pain level opponent isn't a anti-feat. 3. We can take this a step further. When people are mentioned that can stop Oro Jiraiya is never reference to be able to do it. Hiruzen went straight to Minato and didn't even mention the other Sannin

[@iusanmario8117]

Oro also could have won against 4 tails if he survived long enough for the cloak to burn naruto to death. That was his only win con tho

[@yudasrain4774]

@@iusanmario8117thats the problem your time scaling, orochimarus abilities just allows him to fight stronger fighters, he can get mutualities , thrown like a rag doll, and ripped apart, but still be alive do to his snake jutsu. Ap wise and durability wise he isn’t all that

[@themegacactus]

The itachi orochimaru faught was not fucking pain level

[@chronoflame4438]

@themegacactus Itachi scaling is a whole different issue. The narrative compares Itachi and Pain as benchmarks for both Naruto and Sasuke supressing their masters. Not saying that I think a sick Itach beats Pain but they are both fighters considered greater than the sannin. Arguably that Itachi might be stronger than the one Sasuke fought because he isn't as sick. We don't really know.

[@themegacactus]

@@chronoflame4438 itachi joining akatski isn't fucking pain level he's mid or maybe high kage level

[@UnwantedGhost1-anz25]

I missed the Four Tailed form Naruto had. The design looks sick.

[@taecampus]

Right?? Everytime his eyes got red, whiskers got thicker, and chakra started to bubble red I was like " ..... Oooooh no! He's going to crash out to the extreme!!" It was hype 😄 I compare to Aang's Avatar State in the beginning. No one is safe

[@ryanhfc]

Also, thumbnail is FIRE

[@serendipitouscomet]

Ocular genjutsu and sound genjutsu are different. You’re right that Orochimaru hasn’t shown any counters. But I do think being the leader of the Sound Village and teaching so many other Sound nin sound-based genjutsu suggests he would know at least some counter measure.

[@phill9780]

But it's literally stated to be stronger than tsukyomi

[@kevinmandujano3444]

​​@phill9780 No tf it's not 😂. Where's the statement? Also, frog song doesn't affect the opponent instantaneously. After it begins, Ma and Pa literally say that it takes a few seconds to get into melody after opening their mouths. It doesn't take a genius to look at that and conclude that they should get out of the way.

[@serendipitouscomet]

@@phill9780 And he said “literally” too. People will say anything these days..

[@Black_Guy]

It is stated to be the strongest genjutsu after tsukuyomi was known. Therefore, front song is stronger than tsukuyomi.

[@serendipitouscomet]

@@Black_Guy Well, in what way is it stronger? Sound might just be a more potent trigger because it’s harder to avoid than eye sight. And then there’s the fact that it’s casted by multiple users where as Tsukuyomi is just one. Frog Call is also empowered by senjutsu. With Tsukuyomi, even if you have help it’s impossible to break due to how quickly it occurs. Mangekyou Sharingan is also easier to activate to use the move as opposed to Sage Mode and Kuchiyose to summon the Elder toads for Frog Song. You can get killed before you have time to set up Frog Song. They’re both so different, I don’t see how they could even be compared. So in what way is it “stronger?” Stronger doesn’t necessarily mean better in every way or situation. Tsukuyomi seems more efficient and deadly, whereas Frog song is more powerful and all encompassing.

[@zacharyt.2694]

Orochimau > Jiraiya Jiraiya > Tsunade Tsunade > Orochimaru It's Rock(Slug), Paper(Toad), Scissors(Snake)

[@kemsolid]

When I read the title, I thought "Another video where Jiraiya gets clowned on". But no, you surprised me. This was a legit breakdown of abilities and potentialities. Thank you for finally putting some respect on Jiraiaya's name!!!

[@DS-dw3pz]

Yeah but he downplayed Orochimaru a lot tho

[@shlonkyplonky]

Six has always done this. Instead of displaying each combatant honestly, he must put down one to raise the other. Bro really took Orochimaru's superior arsenal allowing him to shrug off fatal injuries and tried to twist it into a weakness. I'm convinced he was paid to make this video, because bro fucked up real bad. I know he doesn't believe this, but because he put this video out, it'll likely poison the discourse for years to come. Glad he made a few bucks off it.

[@DS-dw3pz]

@@shlonkyplonky exactly....Orochimaru was never afraid of Jiraiya one bit or even jealous of him ever....six downplayed the frog song multiple times before this but here he makes it seem like it's a legendary genjitsu....that was literally his only argument...the frog song worked on those Pains only because of the location in the tunnels and there was no way of escaping it but in an open field , frog song is not going to be that effective at all... otherwise Naruto would have just used it against all the Pains at once🤣🤣...and Six saying like okay Orochimaru got sliced up but what about it since he can just regenerate lol...Orochimaru has so many arsenal which could make Jiraiya look like a joke

[@AlanJia8]

Ngl, if you ask me, the answer to the stuff you said at the beginning is probably answered by Jiraiya learning Sage Mode. Orochimaru is more talented and trains harder, but Jiraiya makes up for that with the massive boost from Sage Mode. As for the 4T Naruto comparisons, Orochimaru did also dodge Naruto's chakra arm, cave Naruto's face in slightly, react to his Bijuudama, and reduce the damage enough for his body to stay intact. Orochimaru pretty much only gets tagged when Naruto does an unexpected maneuver and Orochimaru had overextended, so generally it seems Armless Orochimaru is faster than 4T Naruto, who casually tagged Jiraiya, and seemingly multiple times at that since we see wounds all over his body in the flashback right before Jiraiya's battle with Pain. I just think it's generally more consistent for Orochimaru to be comparable to SM Jiraiya. Pain also kinda implies it, comparing Jiraiya to Orochimaru after he enters Sage Mode. Also, I do agree SM Jiraiya has a higher chance than winning if Ma and Pa use Gamarinsho, but it's not like it just makes it a non fight, since Jiraiya needed to escape to prepare in pipes, and Orochimaru could try to interrupt before the genjutsu is finished.

[@landendrake]

Bro clutched the upload I just rolled up😭🙏

[@donovan4222]

Oh yes I also rolled up my Naruto sealing scroll in preparation for the video 🤓

[@celticsbound]

Matter of fact imma roll up and watch this

[@Yxh-luffy]

No cap😂

[@AtenSol12]

Real shit 😂

[@jonathanhei7970]

Saying that Jiraiya's Giant Rasengan will easily handle the 8-Headed Dragon form of Orochimaru is a stretch. It took Deidara's C0 to kill Manda, and Manda survived long enough to tell Sasuke he's a bitch for doing that to him. 8 Headed Dragon > Manda, right?

[@bdeamon1]

To be fair, C0 could probably kill just about anything that could be killed by traditional means. Who really knows the degrees of power between that and a giant rasengan, and how much would really needed to overwhelm Manda

[@DarkEye-re9zg]

In response to jiraiyas sage mode pain says all the sannin have unique powers. Could be referring to hydra here. Frog song is a oneshot but massive rasengan? Even gamabunta in previous databooks is described as big as a mountain and the serpent is larger than manda who gama is comparable in size to.

[@jonathanhei7970]

I also think it's heavily implied Kabuto learned Snake/Dragon Sage Jutsu from Orochimaru. We also saw Orochimaru's 7 Headed Dragon Transformation or whatever the fuck that thing was, which I think was like entry-level Sage Jutsu on his part.

[@yamamotogotbodied1606]

Best Jiraiya vs Four Tails breakdown in the community if not platform period. Honestly the best Jiraiya vs Orochimaru video since it’s been done 🔥🔥

[@unknownchicken2284]

You do forget to mention that if Mah amd Pa are damaged jiriya loses sage mode and frog song. Being a genius orochimaru probably knows this and could keep up the attack forcing jiriya to use them defensively. Also i kinda have a issue with you not counting edo tensei since Orochimaru can simply have human sacrifices already prepared. Finally i think since orochimaru somehow knew the Totska blade existed he would probably know about the frog song and be prepared for it

[@TortillaBill]

The problem is we've never seen Orochimaru fight for his life. Never seen him go all out. He must know a large scale jutsu or high AP jutsu or some sick nature release, considering how many techniques he's studied. He just never narratively had an opportunity to use them.

[@yudasrain4774]

Now that’s just fan fiction, we have seen his strongest form and that’s his white serpent form. He doesn’t have anything we haven’t seen

[@TortillaBill]

I disagree, but I will say it's just one of those things we'll never know

[@patricklynch4074]

​@yudasrain4774 even that one ends up being debatable because he didnt fight He got cocky and tanked an attack that he didnt realize he HAD to dodge

[@TortillaBill]

@@patricklynch4074 yeah he even called susano strikes not enough to kill him

[@steveromero8459]

By Boruto he clearly knows higher AP jutsu. It’s not that wild to think Orochimaru has some really strong jutsu up his sleeve, dude researched jutsu 24/7

[@pepballer6375]

Funny how people think itachi couldn't beat the pervy sage but he packed up orochimaru 😅 make it make sense ... Oh and itachi packed up full powered orochimaru b4 the reaper death seal

[@nirjhar4803]

Well Naruto fights don't always tend to work like that to begin with... Character A beating B and character B Beating C does not necessarily mean A beats C. Regardless I do think Itachi beats Jiraiya(although I believe it'd be a closer fight than with Orochimaru).

[@pepballer6375]

@@nirjhar4803 I get what you're saying it's the pokemon effect water beats fire fire beats grass grass beats water .... How ever water beats both fire and grass

[@thewonthatloss227]

Itachi could never go hand to hand with oro. It's all genjutsu for a reason

[@pepballer6375]

@thewonthatloss227 he went hand to hand with kcm Naruto and bee the 4 tails folded your frog

[@thewonthatloss227]

@@pepballer6375 that isn't oro is it?

[@GuppySama1]

🐍 > 🐸

[@saddoggo5822]

you downplayed orochimaru so hard 😭😭

[@РаЫо]

gotta farm those jiraya glazers

[@metaking4263]

Facts also acting like Orochimaru doesn't have prep on Jiraiya as well 😂

[@RedRag684]

Orochimaru has nothing to counter frog song. Next

[@shido_rimru_]

​@@RedRag684thats irrelevant jiriyah cant even kill orochimaru he immortal he would get tired eventually lol

[@RedRag684]

@@shido_rimru_ then he’ll seal him like itachi did. Next. If you say jiraya has nothing to seal orochimaru, then you simply arent paying attention.

[@jiero3253]

Edo Tensei GG, why do people remove that from his aresnel like he doesn't use it anytime he gets the chance

[@shlonkyplonky]

@@jiero3253 Fr I don't get it either. If we're just arbitrarily removing jutsu, remove sage mode or frog song while we're there.

[@jiero3253]

@@shlonkyplonky Apparently six say"he wouldn't have the sacrifices" yet he went in with some against hiruzen

[@shlonkyplonky]

@@jiero3253 Edo Tensei, Eight Branches-so we're just removing jutsu from Orochimaru until Jiraiya can win? He's repeated this nonsense in other videos before, as if he requires fresh sacrifices each time he wants to summon somebody. Meanwhile, Kabuto flat-out explained how Edo Tensei works, and that's never been the case. He's already prepared sacrifices for Hashirama and Tobirama, so? This was either the result of approaching this with an agenda to push, entering this with bad faith, or just straight stupidity.

[@jiero3253]

@@shlonkyplonky I'll admit the eight branches technique is kind of ass in retrospect since blind, sick low HP Itachi negged him. But there's no reason they should be relative in base, oruchmaru was in a body rejecting him and he still does better than jiraya in base. Base to base they are not equal. The edo's can be prepared at anytime so I don't get why he assumes oruchmaru who would in character walk around with scarfices doesn't

[@shlonkyplonky]

@@jiero3253 The Eight Branches is an excellent technique that was just unfortunately negged by the totsuka blade. That fact that Itachi one-shot it doesn't say anything when nobody else in the series could've survived being impaled by that thing. Orochimaru looked at a fully armored susano'o and thought it would be child's play to defeat. Even when he was stabbed initially, he called Itachi's attack "puny", before realizing it was the totsuka blade of course. I wouldn't say losing to probably the strongest weapon in the verse held by a guy who can box with Pain is realistically much of an anti-feat. I agree with everything else you said. Orochimaru just negs basically everything Jiraiya has. Even in Sage Mode, the Eight Branches is said to use the White Snake Sage's power, making it Orochimaru's equivalent transformation. Jiraiya's imperfect form has been confirmed as a 10× amp, which doesn't even surpass the buff Oro's Curse Mark offers. So even in their higher forms, he's still at a power disparity same as base. Somebody else mentioned that Tomari swatted away Tayuya's sound genjutsu with wind style. Considering wind style seems to be Orochimaru's prefered nature... Oops.

[@vvebsta6237]

Not so deep of analysis. You give Jiraiya start in SM, but not give Orochimaru P1 edo. Is it fair? No word said about poisonous vapor at all... You yourself remembered about poison resistance of Oro but ignored poison as weapon of Oro... Entering sage mode. Who allows that? Why can't Jiraiya summon several toads at once? You analysis might be good for casual viewers, but it has no deep layers to it. All you did was wasting more than half of the video discussing their confrontations against Kuybi and featless Yamata-no-Orochi instead of analysing their relevant skills and jutsus. You didn't breakdown lots of Jiraiya's jutsus as well...

[@AnnedolfFrankler911]

Jiraiya has lost every fight against Orochimaru. There is not contest - Jiraiya loses, with or without Sage Mode

[@gilrodrik3407]

So we gonna forget how long it takes to pull off frog song? And are we using nerfed orochimaru if not what’s to stop him from using edo tensie to some 6 kage level fighters to fight along side him and lets not forget his interaction with itachi happens years ago are we assuming orochimaru didn’t get any stronger or develop any counters for itachi or genjutsu after getting bodied by it looking at how kabuto, although he claims to surpassed orochimaru, handled both uchiha brothers it’s safe to say orochimaru on all metrics beats the old toad sage soundly.

[@MrTrip666]

Iirc, it's stated in the databook that the 3 sannin are all on the same level and that Jiraiya and Orichimaru have fought and drawn multiple times in the past. Im gonna say the battle is even, and they both either kill each other or escape one another. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@Black_Guy]

Sage mode takes Jiraiya beyond Sannin level.

[@grandcanyon-d4d]

Boruto Orochimaru claps

[@MrTrip666]

@@grandcanyon-d4d obviously, but Jiraiya isn't alive at that point.

[@qazdr6]

I think it's wrong to assume that Jiraya will definitely get into sage mode + I think you're over hyping Frog Song - if Jiraya gets it off Oro is KIA but frog song takes time to activate; that's why Jiraya has to hide and hit the pain indirectly through the pipes - and even in Sage mode Jiraya stats are comparable to some of the weaker paths of pain where as Oro's stats in base are comparable to old man / Edo-Hiruzen - add in the Edo Hokage and it gets very tough for Jiraya

[@Nathan24634]

An old heavily nerfed hiruzen not a top notch hiruzen

[@exiledknight3961]

He could hide in a toad belly and prep it in there

[@onizukasensei5321]

​@@Nathan24634he literally said edo hiruzen

[@qazdr6]

@@exiledknight3961 it's true but Oro can also just find the frog and attack it directly from the outside

[@shaqcarroll3726]

Everybody knows when it’s a orochimaru versus NO EDO. Only orochimaru

[@DDobs12]

Edo should count...literally a move he used in battle

[@JKBlackClover]

There’s no realistic scenario in which Jiraiya wins. Yes if we give Jiraiya cheat codes and say he starts in sage mode then he can probably pull it off. But the thing is, he’s never gonna get that opportunity. It’s been established they’re relative in base if not Orochimaru just being stronger in base. How do you expect Jiraiya to keep his hands together for 5 minutes AND fight Orochimaru? He only pulled it off against Pain because he had the most bs convenient environment imaginable to keep running away and buy time. He would most likely not get it off in any other scenario.

[@braveneworldbetalfa5209]

I see people talking about Orochimaru's arsenal, but if you look closely, the guy doesn't have a good jutsu apart from edo tensei and the invocations. without that he literally has 1 fire jutsu, 1 wind jutsu, 1 earth jutsu, 1 regeneration jutsu and the hydra technique which is an invocation with no feats other than hitting his head on things. While Jiraya has 2 or 3 fire jutsus, 1 earth jutsus, 1 combination of fire, wind and oil. 1 oil jutsu, invocations, sage mode that is superior to hydra in any aspect, shadow clones, a genjutsu hit k.O, his hair, camouflage, sealing, movement detection barrier, super strength, fire seal and invocation barrier that give him the terrain advantage. How the fuck does Orochimaru win?

[@JARMIDz]

A very big point you missed is that orochimaru didn’t have a tag like jiraya. If he did, instead of punching naruto in the face, he would’ve placed the tag and ended the fight. That’s whilst being weakened mind you

[@Black_Guy]

Did Naruto already split Orochimaru in half by that point? I think the point is still valid.

[@bishopdaking717]

Bro did a whole video just to confirm that Jiraiya only has 1 win con (frog song) & just can’t beat Orochimaru without it.

[@memmalatelmorganii7779]

I feel like if we’re talking about sealed arms orochimaru that’s not even a fair fight to begin with since all the things we have already mentioned that being his arms/ part of his soul being sealed away in shipudden he is far weaker then before but if sage jiraya fought against part one orochimaru and they both start in base orochimaru wins mid diff because we grant jiraya sage mode at the start meaning he had some prep time we gotta give orochimaru some prep as well since he isn’t the kind of fighter to enter a battle with no back up plan

[@Twig_02]

Once Ma and Pa started frog song Pain was able do hear it, deduce it was genjutsu, and run to his location all before it took effect. I don't see why Orochimaru wouldn't hear it, deduce it's genjutus, and blow away the noise with wind style like Temari or even destroy his ears since he can regenerate.

[@CyberNinja96]

I forgot how the Rinnegan shared senses work but I feel like the only reason Pain was even able to detect it at all and stop it is because the other Paths (and Nagato) were not being affected due to sharing the same sight and that toad song affects those in range. I mean Shikamaru back in Sasuke Retrieval Arc is still one of the smartest ninjas in the series and even he couldn't do anything against auditory genjutsu, saying it was the most dangerous (I think) until Temari came in clutch. That's just me and maybe Orochimaru has earplugs in case Jiraya tries this tactic. Considering he got dog-walked by Itachi, had the same audio genjutsu user in the Sound Four who haxed Shikamaru, and scrapped against Hiruzen who knew 1000 genjutsu alone, he's probably prepared in case somebody tried this tactic on him.

[@WEAREALLJUSTMEAT]

Theres no way jiriya is going to be able to summon ma and pa its just unrealistic... also no snakes don't have ears... frog song would probably not work against it. Itatchi only beat orochimaru due to hax. You have ro be INCREDIBLY charitable to jiriya, and use nerfed orochimaru to get a win for jiriya...actually no orochimaru is only shown vulnerable to SHARINGAN genjutsu so like wheres the proof sound based genjutsu would work on him at all? Ffs he was head of the sound village and literally had a henchman with a demonic flute genjutsu... but no seriously how is jiriya getting 5 minutes unbroken to summon ma and pa., and if you want to give jiriya prep use war arc orochimaru who can use justu outside of just the onea he has tattooed... idk its literally always been consistently implied jiriya would lose, and ot really feels like were ignoring the fact that jiriya barely got ma and pa/sage mode off in a perfect environment to evade his enemy so like in an open field hows he doing it against a guy who knows all of his tricks?

[@EternalWanderer657]

Snakes can hear just not as well as us.

[@kurodies]

haven’t watched the whole video yet but orochimaru clears

[@Slymarbo5060]

Yeah?

[@SUPREME_N]

💯 fuck what this fraud says

[@bmgk6486]

cap

[@shlonkyplonky]

He does clear, the second half of the video just fumbles into incoherence.

[@Archer170]

Naw the toad sage clears in the higher level devision.

[@dragondrakage2402]

1 problem with frog song, is that it takes time to activate. Its not instant or fast like the other jutsu. So if orochinaru is fast enough, he can disrupt the jutsu

[@Black_Guy]

How would he know it's coming?

[@dragondrakage2402]

@Black_Guy it'll be pretty obvious, have u not watched the series? There's a reason jiraiya ran away when the toads started it up

[@Black_Guy]

@dragondrakage2402 He ran to give them time. Jiraiya can still use jutsu and his other summoning. Jiraiya has 5 summons and multiple jutsu to stall. He could launch himself in the air and cover the ground in fire or a myriad of other tactics to stall for time. Not to mention he has increased stats that probably eclipses Orochimaru's speed, so how is Orochimaru catching him?

[@dragondrakage2402]

@@Black_Guy jiraiya using other summonings would dwindle his chakra supply even further, which would be pointless as orochimaru can do the same. Orochunaru is shown to react to people on par or above sage jiraiya. Sage jiraiya doesn't have all that great of speed

[@ghoztly7099]

Jiraiya stands zero chance. Why is this even a debate lmao...either Orochimaru enters with favorable conditions or he simply retreats.

[@shihoblade]

Retreating counts as a loss doesnt it? And I cant figure out a strat for Orochimaru to survive win against Gamabunta, gamaken, green toad, AND the elder toads. Jiraiya is not only a sage, he can summon sage toads. Orochimaru just has Manda who isnt even loyal. Orochimaru's mid sized snakes got beat by kid Naruto and Jiraiya one shot them with an incomplete mud swamp. Even with edo, this goes badly for Orochimaru.

[@DS-dw3pz]

​@@shihoblade firstly Manda is definitely stronger than Gamabunta and as long as Orochimaru isn't nerved by the reaper death seal he can easily give him sacrifices...and not only that but he had the 8 headed serpent whose even stronger than Manda....so what can Jiraiya or Gamabunta possibly do and Orochimaru wasn't even scared of Itachi's susanoo till he realised he had the totsuka blade lol

[@braveneworldbetalfa5209]

Dude orichimaru only feat is defeat a parkinson hiruzen. He gets railad by for tail, jiraya win against for tail and he is try tl supress not kill. And orochimaru edo tensei is inclomplete.

[@austinmc12]

Nah fam ima be ignant Jiraiya is ASS😭dudes like 40 couldn’t get perfect sage mode naruto did it in like a week 😭 Minato said he was bad at it and had it perfected. My agenda never ends 😤

[@SteeloFN]

Three Legendary Sanin at their early 20s get faded by Sakumo Hatake😮‍💨

[@barimvp897]

I love jiraiya way more as a character but orochimaru takes it imo. Jiraiya definitely has a win-con (frog-song) but its not going to be easy to get off especially against an opponent like orochimaru in a neutral location (dbz-style wasteland). Orochimaru is heavily nerfed from the end of the hiruzen fight until he makes his return in the great war, so its almost inherently unfair for him if we use a nerfed version. The orochimaru who fought hiruzen is much better comp and considering edo tensei is in orochimaru’s “arsenal” I don’t see how orochimaru loses. Jiraiya has to insta-kill orochimaru with massive rasengan or frog song or orochimaru will just keep fighting.

[@thewonthatloss227]

My question is why does everyone think orochimaru did not participate in the war?

[@barimvp897]

@ because he didn’t fight. He kind of just assists the allied forces and dips😂

[@explosivegrape]

Nice to hear some more Jiraya support and it not just being an Orochimaru stomp.

[@windmonkey95]

Idk, Jiraiya basically only had to 1 touch 4 tails Naruto because all he had to do was place a chakra seal on him to subdue him and he was in good health. Orochimaru was knocking on death's door with no arms when he fought 4 tails Naruto and still managed to to do about as well as Jiraiya did. I'm pretty sure he gets absorbed by Sasuke like the next day after that fight. I'm not saying Orochimaru would have won if he was in good health but I think it's pretty safe to say if Jiraiya had fought 4 tails Naruto in the condition Orochimaru did he would have been killed for sure, whereas if Orochimaru had fought 4 tails Naruto in the condition Jiraiya did he probably wouldn't have had to use his regeneration in the first place, which I think is a pretty impressive feat to still have enough power to regenerate after being cut in half while in such a weakened state.

[@loganbreau882]

Bro is about to release 2 more videos either today or tomorrow, let’s get it.

[@CH1C4N0444]

Great video Six! Honestly, I think Tsunade vs Orochimaru or Jiraiya might be more interesting since Orochimaru vs Jiraiya is talked about so much more

[@Nathan24634]

I don't know Tsunade just has such a shallow kit that it makes it hard for me to believe she can beat them more than a couple times

[@gabrieldean4111]

@@Nathan24634I feel like it would be a contest of if she could get a hit off while both of them would be trying to keep her at range. Idk who wins cuz tsunade scaling in the war gets crazy and idrk all of her wild feats. She might have some crazy ass feat that hits jiraiya or oro have no way of countering.

[@Nathan24634]

@@gabrieldean4111 fair but I believe she was getting mental amped through her fight with Madara so since we don't know if that stay I usually don't take it and only use her as we see before and even allowing those feats both jiraiya and orochimaru just have really good kits for this but I think jiraiya will be best hear because of many of his road summons and road based jutsu and then frog song do I think jiraiya can beat her in base hell no she's not massively weaker in fact she probably has better stats than sage jiraiya though not by much I imagine but it's mainly her kit being so shallow and really relying on her physical and healing no disrespect to Tsunade though

[@shisaroid]

@@gabrieldean4111she forced rinnegan madara into using a wood clone substitution to avoid decimation via her punch 💀

[@Mad_scientist_ha_ha_ha]

My guy you nerfed Orochimaru and downplayed his feats while being really generous to jiraiya Orochimaru is now in a white zetsu body and now has potentially access to wood release and isn't sick anymore. Heck his already busted regeneration is probably even more busted bcoz of white zetsu Either way... Orochimaru wins with ease against base Jiraiya Jiraiya wins in sage mode only due to frog song I wish Orochimaru learned sage mode instead of kabuto, the dude deserved it

[@braveneworldbetalfa5209]

Orochimaru only feat is defeated a Parkinson hiruzen

[@Mad_scientist_ha_ha_ha]

@braveneworldbetalfa5209 good joke

[@kingsiretheog]

Orochimaru knows he can heal so he doesn't have to evade the same way as Jiriaya.....we have seen him do the same for weaker opponents he can easily defeat....this is not proof of anything

[@kingsiretheog]

Manda was fighting 2 summons 😂, in no way is Gamabunta close in power 😂

[@coin4898]

I swear, out of all of the sannin summoningsn gamambunta is the most underrated and by fat the weakest Idk why everyone acts like he's stronger than manda 😂

[@thechurchofsymmetra8247]

It’s weird that this video brings up how Jiriaya & Orochiamru are stated equal numerous times and yet the conclusion is SM Jiriaya is another level. None of the statements exclude SM, and when Jiriaya enters SM Pain literally name drops Oro as a comparison. Frog song can be countered by wind style as even in P1 we saw wind jutsu can blow black sound Genjutsu. The Art of the 8 headed serpent is Orochimaru’s equivalent transformation and amp to his power, so in base Orochimaru is superior and in their amped forms Orochimaru should still come out on top Also the Hydra doesn’t have worse statements than Jiriaya’s sage mode. The databook states it uses the power of the white snake sage, which should make it equivalent. Jiriaya’s sage mode is also stated to be a 10 times amp in the databook, but Orochimaru’s curse mark is also stated to be a ten times amp, yet the Hydra is a superior amp as per being the strongest of Orochimaru, therefore stronger than the curse mark, the amp he gives to others. So we have a very easy and factual scaling line through the curse mark. Based purely on hard stated facts, you can’t even reliably put Jiriaya’s imperfect sage mode past the curse mark as an amp, so the Hydra is definitely matching it as an amp

[@sixfromtokyo]

@@thechurchofsymmetra8247 The Rashomon gates did not match and finesse the bijuu bomb they all got blown down and knocked Orochimaru back as well. Both of Orochimaru's attacks were suprise attacks on Naruto. He was running away from a chakra arm but not outrunning it and he didn't hold an arm back he threw a snake at it to grab it the snake got burned and he escaped through his own mouth.

[@thechurchofsymmetra8247]

@@sixfromtokyo ​​⁠They all got knocked back and blown down yes, but if you actually look at the damage behind Orochimaru you can see they did block the damage of the jutsu. You can see that the blast behind where the gates were did not destroy the trees. The next pannel makes this more clear It’s pretty clear that the ground behind Orochimaru is left untouched and not damaged at all, but the sides around where the Rashomon weren’t covering are destroyed, so the Rashomon blocked the damage completely but in turn we’re destroyed, hence they were completely equals. I keep trying to link scans yet I think yourube is deleting my comments because I’m leaving links, but I recommend checking out the fight again and looking at the wide shot where it shows how the area around the Rashomon is destroyed, but the entire background directly behind the Rashomon are untouched. It’s unmistakable The snake did hold the arm down though. It got burnt up yes, but the arm was about to crush Orochimaru before he launched it, and then the arm stopped moving and didn’t progress any further, so it does look like he stopped it, he just matched it is all and then the acid burnt it away. If he didn’t stop it, why did the chakra not crush Orochimaru when he stopped moving and shot the snake out? Orochimaru’s slithering snake mode also did look to be equal in speed to the chakra arm or close to it *Also sorry for editing my OP, I had more thoughts when I finished the video*

[@Invisibleboy999]

What is blud yappin about

[@QGUU]

You have some interesting points but I definitely disagree. Jiraiyas sage mode being “imperfect” really means nothing as that doesn’t make it weaker and is never stated to be weaker. I also don’t think using the power of the white snake sage is the same as sage mode. Personally, SM jiraiya stomps orochimaru. But I do agree with the level of respect you’re giving orochimaru vs itachi seeing as people misread their fights badly

[@QGUU]

Oh sorry the last part was for a different comment

[@williamcourtney3029]

Frog song is a very effective jutsu but if you gotta wait 5- 7 buisness days to activate it your not going to have much vs the giant regenerating hydra thats in front you that was significantly larger than both the giant snake and giant frog combine.

[@EternalWanderer657]

The jutsu can be invoked while in motion it's not like he has to remain stationary.

[@williamcourtney3029]

@@EternalWanderer657 hydra can be invoked in motion as well and it's in an instant. I just don't see Orochimaru being kind enough to wait 7 business days to let him charge up only reason pain didn't take him out in an instant was bc strongest pains were not on the scene then he instantly got rid of jiriya

[@jaska3900]

What about the fact that they both know eachothers fighting styles very well? Imo that gives orochimaru the clear edge. He knows what jiraiya needs to enter sage mode and is not gonna let it happen. Even tho i think jiraiya is the better overall fighter, the manga is very clear about the fact that when they clash jiraiya loses.

[@EternalWanderer657]

Doesn't mean it's due to lack of strength, it can be a multitude of reasons.

[@Silva-ek9hd]

I think it’s important to remember that the comparison between their performances against 4 tails Naruto is not a one to one. Orochimaru was in a body that was dying. He was actively approaching death, and was still contending with 4 tails Naruto. Physically Jiraiya wasn’t weakened in any way. I know you mention this but I don’t think people really focus on this.

[@braveneworldbetalfa5209]

Jiraya are try tô supress naruto not kill. And yamato say in the same arc tha fight tô supress is harder than fight tô kill. And jiraya take a blow of 4 tail and dont gets reped of in two, any blink of 3 tail naruto riped orochimaru arms, leges, 4 tail literaly cut him in two. Só jiraya has more durability and win the fight against naruto. Is a feat for jiraya. Sage win against snake

[@Silva-ek9hd]

@ Something being more difficult doesn’t mean the person doing it is stronger. Whether he was trying to suppress Naruto or kill him doesn’t matter, he nearly died to a three tailed Naruto. Orochimaru on his deathbed. If you think the goal of suppressing is an equal nerf to literally being on the verge of death with no arms, you’d be wrong.

[@Dante...]

I've always said that this fight could go either way in base with maybe a slight advantage to Orochimaru. Something like a 60/40. But if Jiraiya enters sage mode, it's a wrap.

[@shlonkyplonky]

What a disingenuous video, brushing off Orochimaru's ultimate jutsu like that. The idea that his massive rasengan could begin to tear away at it is handled when you remember that the eight-headed hydra uses regenerative powers as stated in the databooks. Furthermore, let us not forget that Itachi wasn't the only one nerfed during the Sasuke fight. 1.) As stated in the databooks, Orochimaru used the last of his strength to unleash his Eight Branches technique. He was running on fumes already. Nerf no.1. 2.) He was still sick and dying. The Orochimaru that fought Itachi was the same Orochimaru that was on the brink of death, bedridden, and was STILL yet to take another vessel. Nerf no.2. 3.) Arms were still sealed. While he regained the movements of his arms after swapping bodies, the parts of his soul that were once in them had been severed, and sealed within the belly of the Reaper. Chakra is composed of physical AND spiritual energy. With the part of his soul that was in his arms gone, Orochimaru not only suffered a drastic decrease in stats, and overall power, but lost the lionshare of his jutsu as well. In a way, that's two nerfs in one. Nerf no.3. 4.) He wasn't fighting to kill, Itachi was. Orochimaru wanted Itachi's eyes/body. He didn't want to obliterate him. This applies to their first fight also. Orochimaru was holding back in both encounters. Nerf no.4. So, while he was in his "most powerful form," Orochimaru was nowhere close to full power, and yet still saw Itachi's susano'o and thought it would be child's play to defeat until he realized he was struck by the totsuka blade. 🤷 Frog Song GG, but outside of that, I still have Orochimaru taking it in their higher forms. Conveniently, you ended the video assessing only one win condition. You failed to mention that all of Orochimaru's snakes are venomous, thus Jiraiya sustaining s single hit can kill him. On a separate note, Orochimaru does not require a fresh sacrifice each time he summons an edo to assist him. He has already prepared them beforehand. But honestly, he doesn't even need them to mop up Jiraiya.

[@DIMOHA25]

To be honest, the only known case of him having edo summons ready to go was in the middle of a seriously planned out operation.

[@saddoggo5822]

THANK YOU

[@shlonkyplonky]

@@DIMOHA25 That's one interpretation. Edit: People like to bring up him summoning the Third Kazekage against Deidara and Sasori. He didn't require a fresh sacrifice then. I could see that brushed off as non-canon though.

[@DarkEye-re9zg]

He didnt hold back against itachi with the hydra. He was going to to take over sasukes body not itachi

[@shlonkyplonky]

@@DarkEye-re9zg He has always wanted Itachi's sharingan, from the moment they met. He wanted Sasuke's body, but wanted more than a three tomoe sharingan, understanding how to obtain EMS.

[@sagestein6252]

Finally one I agree with. I’d say Jiraiya and Orochimaru in base are pretty close. But once Jiraiya enters SM, it’s over. I usually argue SM Jiraiya could actually take Orochimaru and Tsunade at the same time. Sages are just on another level.

[@resolute7177]

i think it's unfair you compare prime jiraiya + ma and pa with no hand weaken orochimaru with no edo shame on u

[@sixfromtokyo]

huh??

[@resolute7177]

@@sixfromtokyo you used the strongest version of Jiraiya and gave him ma + pa while not using the strongest version of Orochimaru we see in the show with his Edo summons this would have been a totally different fight

[@sixfromtokyo]

@@resolute7177 Well the summons are something Jiraiya can constantly use and Orochimaru can't keep using his Hokage summons. Besides that's the only thing I took from him and they'd get hit w/ frog song anyway not like it matters lol.

[@resolute7177]

@@sixfromtokyo i'd agree with you if Jiraiya's sage mode didn't take 20 plus years to activate while Orochimaru can ez summon Edo like that and they'd probably have him killed before sage mode butttttt it's watevers good video either way 👍👍

[@christopherbrownington]

@@resolute7177Sage Mode doesn’t take that long to activate, also Jiraiya was able to activate it during a fight with someone wayy stronger than Orochimaru, so even if he had summons Jiraiya would still get it off

[@jonathanhayhurst3928]

If you give Jiraya Ma and Pa, you have to give Orochimaru Edo Tensei Hashirama and Tobirama

[@drippy_mking1593]

Explain to them how itachi gives jiraiya that post waring states uchiha senju treatment

[@ianreeves06]

Orochimaru wins with his summons and scaling. Also didn't swag make a vid on this topic 5 years ago or so, I think he also stated orochimaru clears mid diff max

[@gabrieldean4111]

He went over the scaling that that video uses, also that was 5 years ago. Alot of ppl 5 years thought madara would beat kaguya so whatever.

[@pranavvarshney8179]

Scaling meta changes in 5 years dawg

[@РаЫо]

Jiraya glazing got out of control since then

[@youuujohnson]

lmaooo this is troll. jirayia is obv the weakest sannin and it’s not fair to compare them using jirayias strongest form against a weakens oro with no edo tensei. oro wipes the floor with jirayia.

[@Linker_12]

What are you even talking about lil bro😂

[@blackcoffeguzzler]

Orochimaru was unbelievably more powerful than Jiraiya. Jiraiya was barred by a two-tailed cloak Naruto. Meanwhile, Orochimaru, while practically already dead, toyed with a 4-tailed cloak Naruto. Orochimaru also survived and reversed legendary sealing techniques, in addition to moving through mortal damage like it was nothing on multiple occasions. Then there's the ability to revive multiple kage-level ninja at once - which directly parellels the 6 paths of pain. Jiraiya's durability, insight, versatility and combat prowess was legendary, but Orochimaru defied the laws of nature itself.

[@Mr-Hidden]

Wtf is happening to Six, i thought he was a good youtuber but recently i realized the opposite. In few of his videos i watched he talk nonsense. Now he is ignoring every Oro win con and talk about frog song like it could beat Madara. What is next video Jiraiya vs Madara and Jiraiya wins because of frog song ? Just tell me what is Jiraiya doing against 8 headed hydra, literally mini tailed beast, when he had problem with Pain's summonings.

[@KurokamiNajimi]

Orochimaru isn’t Madara and you didn’t even explain how Madara gets around it

[@purplebeast8536]

Imagine getting angry over anime powerscalig

[@Qilver]

The difference with four tailed naruto against jiraiya and the one against orochimaru is that one of them was kid naruto and the other wasnt

[@bignoob2726]

I don't think that matters because Kuruma is in control in that form and using his own chakra

[@Qilver]

@@bignoob2726 he is in control of naruto's body. So if it is a stronger version of Naruto it does matter

[@jakehamburdoodle3042]

Glad to see jiraiya finally getting respect again. Great video six

[@charleswhitefullbusteruchi1972]

he still doesn't beat pain or itachi. and i would still favour oro over jiraiya if they ever fought

[@Kenny987-n4i]

Amazing video six!

[@ebonytunnel703]

Thanks!

[@sixfromtokyo]

Bro??! I appreciate it hella dude wtf 💀

[@FinnFGC]

Idk if this is something that people have already discussed and came to a conclusion on, but do you think any version of Sauske post Rennigan could beat Hashirama?

[@kingsiretheog]

I just know I'm going to have to dislike the video, people want Jiriaya way too much.....but if I'm wrong I'll hold this L

[@aceclover758]

Jiraya always underestimated and some fools consider Kakashi stronger than him (not counting war time Kakashi) despite the fact Kakashi has immense respect for not only his intelligence but skill and power. He even wondered how Jiraya could’ve held his own against multiple path’s of pain, calling it “insane” Jiraya’s def has more chakra than Orochimaru and likely more destructive force Orochimaru’a main advantage is his hax regeneration, which is basically like having multiple “lifes” and the only reason he survived against 4 tailed Naruto while Jiraya didn’t have that hax and still survived

[@damianmorningstar3150]

you could make the argument Orochimaru's Eight Headed Serpent would be immune to the frog song due to snakes lacking external ears

[@MindlessMenace]

💀

[@Dante...]

Dude, snakes aren't deaf lol.

[@edwinsolis5710]

They still have ears bro like they literally talk to each other and have conversations fym 💀

[@iusanmario8117]

Oro could have hidden inside of the Snakes mouth

[@cloud._266]

Orochimaru takes it imo

[@TheAngelOfTheBottomlessPit]

Yehhhhhh

[@killmongrel3621]

You herd the man Jiraiya wins

[@HC-gm4fo]

Naw

[@charleswhitefullbusteruchi1972]

​@@HC-gm4fofym naw

[@EternalWanderer657]

I was always under the impression that had Tsunade not intervened, Bunta was just going to sidestep the attack, leaving Manda to bite down on his own tail.

[@HC-gm4fo]

Me too

[@morbidzombii]

What kind of fan cope is this lmfao

[@EternalWanderer657]

@@morbidzombii How is this cope?

[@HC-gm4fo]

@@morbidzombii what makes you think he couldn’t dodge it?

[@mgs1398]

@@morbidzombiibro said it’s cope like he made up some crazy theory or sumthn lol. “What??? You mean to tell me he’d be able to dodge something? In an anime???? That never happens!” That’s how you sound bro.

[@btchidz]

Orochimaru!

[@dominicwoodford5711]

My only question is if Orochimaru throws up a forest filling amount of snakes on the bf what exactly does Jiraiya do? I don’t see how Jiraiya realistically wins

[@Black_Guy]

You don't think Jiraiya has giant jutsu like dark swamp jutsu or his insane fire style? He could kill them with an AoE jutsu rather easily.

[@andakin117]

I personally see this as a specialist vs a jack of all trades. Orochimaru is very talented and knows a great deal but he's spread himself too thin. Jiraiya however, isn't as talented as Orochimaru but instead chose to specialize in more narrow fields. We see this a lot with the characters of Naruto. Most of the characters really only have a couple of tricks at their disposal and that what Makes Orochimaru stand out the way he does. He's a high level practitioner of very many techniques but has truly mastered only a few. I do agree with your verdict. I think Orochimaru probably inches Jiraiya out base to base but once Jiraiya enters sage mode it's really over for Orochimaru with no real way to win. I'd give base to base to Orochimaru 6 out of 10 times. This is going to be a hard fought battle and if Orochimaru messes up he's done. However sage mode Jiraiya takes the win in a flawless victory 10 out of 10 times.

[@diamantemrobinson]

FP Orichimaru >= Byakugo Tsunade > SM Jiraiya

[@itsofficiallypluto3670]

If pervy sage is stronger that oro then he was stronger than the 3rd as well and I can’t see that 😅

[@Nathan24634]

Lord third was old and had a huge mental nerf and while yeah orochimaru was also nerfed he seemed his resolve and was nowhere near as nerfed so lord third was likely just his superior if it wasn't for the nerf and edos so it's likely for sage mode jiraiya to be on or above that lvl but he would fall to the 8 headed serpent mode

[@ryan27229]

Nah, Orochimaru'd win.

[@coolshadow4541]

honestly, orochimaru is narutos definition of all hype no delivery. Especially considering all the powerful jutsu he was stated to have before getting nerfed. I think the problem is orochimaru (especially pre nerf in part 1) was set up to be way to strong for his place in the story. I believe he was inteded to be around war arc kabuto levels of strength but since kishimoto cant let him beat hiruzen in part 1, he ended up at this weird inconsistent level of power. And its crazy cuz when you were talking about their habits (jiraiya writing porn novels while orochimaru trains 24/7) along with their statements regarding potential it just clicked with me how nonsenseical it was that orochimaru was that weak. Its just so disappointing for me cuz ive always been a huge orochimaru fan but we never got to see him do anything too interesting.

[@coin4898]

Didnt watch the vide IMo Orochimaru wins if its just him vs jirayia or even sage mode, if you give him ma and pa id argue thatto make it fsir oro gets edo tensei Skipped to da end, diasgree oro slams😂

[@ihatebilly4675]

I haven’t watched yet but if Orochimaru looses I’m gonna riot

[@saddoggo5822]

same here 😹

[@user-kx4cm8sv6w]

The body of the hydra when getting hit by rasengan should release toxins into the air like what happened in the sasuke vs oro fight. Numbing jiraiya, so even if genjutsu goes off on the eight headed serpent, once jiraiya attacks him he/ma/pa will all get affected by the ability, while the pain inflicted on his body from an attack could/would snap him out of the genjutsu as per how genjutsu works

[@osbaldooosba6925]

Yoo six what happened to swag? i love your videos together

[@Yumemaru.]

I think it could go either way. A fight between any of the three is an extreme dif fight. I see them as close as the admirals in one piece, they're all very close in power.

[@theoriginalmew2889]

Damn six on that grind right now with the videos… love them brotha

[@sixpathshashira]

Six, how long do you think it would take for Jiraiya to enter Sage Mode? In the manga it doesn't seem to be that long and he was fighting 3 pains as well... many people say it would take Jiraiya way to long to actually use Sage Mode without Hiding... I don't think this is true.

[@mr.penguin4614]

orochimaru in the war arc with his arms back + white zetsu body destroys jiraiya. hell just give him his arms back and he probably wins. jiraiya has to immediately resort to sage mode gen jutsu, and if we give Jiraiya ma and pa, then orochimaru should probably get 2 edo tensei buddies. we've seen that from orochimaru more times than jiraiya sage mode anyways.

[@titantrainer592]

12:00 snakes don’t have ears so the hydra couldn’t hear Frog Song

[@DXXD_]

Man Naruto scaling community is so sad now. People just being disingenuous and upscaling/downscaling characters left and eighth because y’all have ran out of stuff to talk about, it’s so boring move on.

[@qtindavis433]

jiraya only had to put a piece of paper on narutos head, orochimaru had to fight him. major difference. and kid naruto in 4 tails mode is weaker than 16 year old naruto in 4 tails mode.

[@truzzprod.8191]

2:05 this whole panel is madness

[@zack2016]

Great vid

[@donfaber3203]

First One!

[@sixfromtokyo]

you were not first

[@ColbyTooley]

Something I want to comment is that Naruto might have also been holding back against jiraiya because he was someone naruto cared for and they were training it wasnt an actual fight, he had no reason to hold back against orochimaru. We know Naruto can slip through and get some type of control because in the fight against pain Naruto specifically destroyed areas that Hinata was not around which kept her in a safe location after sge was stabbed, At least in the anime I'm not sure if that's in the manga. Ive got more i wanna add after im off work.

[@Bigdaddy93413]

Something that is hilarious to me is that in Orochimaru's tireless (to the point of seeking immortality in the pursuit of it) hunger for learning ninjutsu, Jiraiya has canonically used more ninjutsu than Orochimaru. By a good bit too. Jiraiya has used more ninjutsu than anyone else in the series. He has a huge arsenal and doesn't get the credit for it that Orochimaru, Hiruzen, and Kakashi do.

[@Zainos_Uzumaki]

Only a 1 minute so i havent seen Six's points yet but if u ask me: Jiraiya vs Orochimaru Part 1: Equal/both relative to eachother Pain Arc: SM Jiraiya War Arc: Orochimaru Boruto: Orochimaru

[@The_Emperor823]

What’s some drowned corpse gonna do against Boruto Orochimaru?

[@rapidcougar3785]

Yo where are the past lives for members? Cuz the latest one that shows up is going over naruto plot holes again?

[@lepyoung]

u didnt even had to go through all that.. the fact that itachi told kisami they were not match for jiraiya and if by any chances they had more in number the results would still be the same, kisami then agreed and admitted that jiraiya was on a whole different level , pain him said that if jiraiya knew more about his secrets he would have lost the fight against jiraiya ... that coming from itachi and pain meant alot because orochimaru always acknowledge that both of them were stronger than him..

[@Nether2342]

FINALLY, I'VE BEEN MAKING THESE ARGUMENTS FOR YEARS. I've felt like a crazy person with people saying Orochimaru did better than Jiraiya vs 4 tails Naruto when he would've gotten merced without Yamato sealing Naruto, and Jiraiya for all purposes beat the 4 tails solo by sealing it.

[@shlonkyplonky]

@@Nether2342 With a tag. Orochimaru didn't have any of the abilities that placed him on old Hiruzen's level. They were all lost when he got landed with the Reaper Death Seal. It's not a fair comparison. Jiraiya had all of his abilities, Orochimaru didn't.

[@Eddie_Roxo]

Orochimaru beats Jiraya even before the war arc. It would be more difficult of course but he can counter all of jirayas jutsu. People just assume that bc jiraya was narutos sensei that he has mor3 chakra than orochimaru, but that has never been proven correct. Orochimaru could use the skin change at least 4 times. If jiraya hits him with supermassive rasengan which he wouldnt, he could just skin change. Most of jirayad attacks wouldnt work on orochimaru even in sage mode. Also if orochimaru goes 8 headed hydra there will be little jiraya can do. Ppl will diubtlessly make the argument that itachi oneshot orochimaru 2 times and that he hyped jiraya up in part 1, but first of all, during naruto its been implied that jiraya and orochimaru were similar in power but orochimaru was always ahead. Jiraya was a character that was meant to fail where naruto, his student, succeeds thereby surpassing him symbolically. Anyway, coming back from the side tangent, orochimaru is faster than jiraya and frog song wouldnt work on him. He could also cast aome genjutau since his goal is learning everything. Oh yeah and in the war arc he absorbed kabutos abilities. Kabuto was able to fight and press Sasuke with Itachi even though they were holding back since they needed him alive. Orochimaru has tayuyas genjutsu and would destroy jiraya. In conclusion: Pre war arc, Orochimaru High diff. War arc and after, Orochimaru no-low diff