Is the Aixun T3A a good T245 soldering station?

[@sdgelectronics]

Interesting firmware issue. I still have a really early firmware version - I think 1.18, and didn't really find any bugs so I wonder how they've made so many revisions and possibly made it worse? JBC won't see the issue with the earthed board as they use proper transformers for the power supply. I think this is why the T420D doesn't show that behaviour.

[@tony359]

You know, I've been thinking of testing earlier versions too! I'll give 1.18 a try, after all it's a soldering iron, not a space ship! If 1.18 works, then happy days! Thanks for watching - and thanks for all your great videos!

[@MadRC]

Yea I have 1.18 on mine as well and not had an issue but I need to check the grounding.

[@jstro-hobbytech]

I agree you are the best. You should sell or donate some of them by now though. I give away all my old test gear and such when I get acceptable new stuff. It seems to be an odd opinion these days though. I donate ul certified meters to students every September and not one person wanted a 500 dollar meter this year. No upper limit either.

[@phuang3]

I purchased the T3A after I watched Steve's review. Mine is 1.19. I didn't bother to update the firmware and I think my copy doesn't behave like this, also.

[@rimmersbryggeri]

@@jstro-hobbytech That's strange.

[@dannyasia25]

I love this review, one of the best I ever see. I have seeing a lot of reviews similar to this one and none came out with this flaw, even with this this specific unit. Thank man and keep up the good work.

[@tony359]

Thank you! To be fair, chances are they introduced the issue with software and/or with HW revisions. We'll see. Maybe this review will push Aixun to get a grip of the situation! Thanks for watching!

[@marcus_w0]

*non-review 😄 I own the T3A for years now - and I love it. To be fair, I always wanted a JBC station because of the ultra fast heating and the sleep capabilities - and this station does it for a fraction of the price. Although I never did a firmware update. The earth-problem did never occur to me as a hobbyist.

[@simontay4851]

4:38 I have a Yihua soldering 899D+ soldering station. The handle uses the hakko tips. If the tip is loose, i make a shim with aluminium foil. It definitely improves the thermal conductivity.

[@tony359]

Back when I got the station I did try with the foil and Aoyue tips but that didn't help. With Hakko tips I feel it works well - cannot outperform a 245 of course. I can't remember whether I tried the foil with them or not. Thanks for watching!

[@minombredepila1580]

I agree with @dannyasia25 on the review. I'm bored of KZbinrs reading the menus option and attached pamphlets. Loved the moment when you said "And a month after...", meaning that you will bring the experience of one month on usage, config, etc... This is quite valuable to me. And yes, I do not change the tip as mine is painful too, ending in very strange "yoga-like" positions. I need to purchase one like this.... one day. But the stellar moment to me was at 17:06 when I could spot the advanced tech you use to keep the spiders controlled: the "No more spiders" spray. Loved this video, as always. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[@tony359]

ahaha thanks! The "no more spider" is my isopropyl sprayer. It used to have a natural scent which was supposed to keep spiders away (it didn't so I just learnt to live with them). When I did my first review on this channel (the Joyalens microscope or the Kayweets multimeter) I realised I was not comfortable in shooting those videos in 1-2 days. How can I possibly get a feeling of the item by just testing it a few minutes? I need to use it, experience the good and the bad first. And that's why I don't normally do reviews, they take time. In this case I got the station for my own use so I thought "why not". Thanks for your kind words and for watching!

[@minombredepila1580]

@@tony359 I guess this is the way, Toni. Sharing experiences and not reading obvious data on panels or brochures. I'm with you on this. Thanks for your answer.

[@chuckvoss9344]

Very good review. You bring up issues that i have never heard of before this.

[@tony359]

Thank you! I am very good at that apparently! :D

[@VK2XXL]

I'm really glad I found your video and it sounds like the company are been very pig faced over it. I had just placed an order for an Aixun unit but have now cancelled and decided to just buy a Weller instead. Cheers, Andrew

[@tony359]

Glad I could be of some help in deciding🙂

[@VK2XXL]

@@tony359 Thanks Tony :)

[@aleksandardjurovic9203]

A great review. Thank you. I wish other reviewers are more like you with discovering strengths and weaknesses of the reviewed product.

[@tony359]

Thank you!

[@d614gakadoug9]

On the grounding issue: Though I have never actually seen one in "real life" I've seen photos of the guts of several of the new breed of solder station. Most use switchmode power supplies. That's fine if the supply is well designed, but from what I can tell from the photos many are not. They are relatively crude and would be unlikely to pass the requirements for either safety agency approval or EMI/RFI control. (I've designed a lot of switchers for industrial use.) My suspicion with the grounding problem is that noise from the power supply gets coupled into the temperature sensing path differently depending on how the tip is grounded. Again the manufacturer seems to have hacked a way to cover up bad design. On soldering: I've watched a few videos of "how to solder" on KZbin. A couple that were "common errors" types were filled with bad advise and evidence that the creators of the videos were not competent solderers. Another that I thought was good, and it was in many ways, still showed a significant failure of method. I've also seen a lot of videos where people slop gobs of flux all over the landscape because they don't know how to use cored solder properly. _Sometimes_ extra flux is a very big help. In most electronics work it is completely unnecessary.

[@tony359]

The switching PSU has been blamed but also the way the thermocouple is sampled. There is a slightly different model from Aixun with a linear supply. Who knows if that works better!

[@unclejohn5012]

For a non review this is a pretty solid video. You earned a subscriber!

[@tony359]

ahah thank you! :)

[@philscomputerlab]

Quearion please. Around 19:00 why is the power output indicator onky showing around 20% and not going higher? I assumed it woild go to 100% and pump in as much heat as possible?

[@tony359]

Do you mean during the XboX motherboard soldering? The tip can deliver a limited amount of heat in the joint. With a bigger tip you might get more power out of the heater. You don’t often see 100% being delivered besides when it powers up or if you put the tip in a glass of water 🙂 Even in the coin test you don’t see that. But that wasn’t my biggest tip.

[@philscomputerlab]

@tony359 Ah that makes sense 😃

[@yuxuanhuang3523]

You dont want the tip to go above set temp, and if the tip cannot dump out so much heat, then it should not work that hard. Maybe one day there will be a soldering tip that somehow measures the component temperature and tries to dump extra heat by overheating the tip, might be useful for huge pads that are not that easily damaged

[@SGRAHMD]

❤ this video is exactly what I wanted to see before buying a soldering station. Thank you for making such an important video. From Bangladesh 🇧🇩

[@tony359]

I'm glad it was useful, thanks for watching!

[@tonyh6309]

*Solved!* (I think) - part 2. (See previous reply) That would explain the 1.6A you measured flowing from the tip to earth, reflecting the relative resistances of the two paths. More importantly it explains the temperature shooting up to max - the earth path shorts out the thermocouple signal causing the controller to think that the tip is at room temperature... What were they thinking? (I guess they weren't). I can't so easily explain the tip to earth voltages you saw; 1 to 2V may reflect a relatively high tip to station wiring resistance of 200mOhms whent the heater is on (8 to 9A) but when idling the heater will be switched on at a low duty cycle. A DVM is not the best way to measure this though. So why does the JBC station work? Because they don't connect mains earth to the COM tip connection - rather they connect it to the tip TC connection via a fuse (paralleled with a 1.2M Ohm resistor to keep it ESD safe should the fuse blow) and a low value series resistor. The latter allows them to measure the earth leakage from the tip in a +/- 9mA range. Is there a simple solution? I don't know: a) Removing the earth connection from the main board should do it, *but* the SMPS leakage current may cause the tip to float many 10's of volts above earth (that tingling you get when touching a typical laptop supply output) which could damage components on a grounded circuit board. b) Alternatively, connecting mains earth to the tip-TC connection as per the JBC version to make it ESD safe might not work well as the SMPS leakage current noise will now flow through the thermocouple and wiring and might cause erratic temperature readings. I guess you'll have to experiment. If it was mine and I was keeping it I would also remove C23 which almost certainly should not be there - opamps generally hate capacitive loads which may cause them to become unstable and oscillate whilst providing negligable filtering given the opamps low output impedance. (Of course it's possible that it really is necessary and the designers knew what they doing...). If you do remove it please measure it if you can and report it somehere (at least if it's more than say 100pF which some opamps can tolerate). I would also experiment with adding RC filtering in the TC to opamp (U8) +ve input signal. If this is the solution, perhaps you could update the forums.

[@tony359]

Thank you for your comments! The bottom line is that I feel a soldering iron should... warm the iron! I don't want to deal with firmware, overshoot, sensors... I am getting a proper one soon. I'll leave someone else to deal with the T3A! Opening the T3A is a destructive process unfortunately and I'd rather keep it sealed so I can find a new home for it when I acquire a better one. Did you add your thoughts to the EEVBlog forum? Thanks again!

[@tonyh6309]

.@tony359 I agree, it's unfit for purpose, unless you are certain you will never need to solder anything earthed. It certainly can't be fixed with firmware updates. I wouldn't touch an Aixun product based on these findings - seemingly well built but the design/test teams seems to be inadequate. How could such a major design fault not have been picked up within a few hours of testing? If it were mine, out of curiosity and for the benefit of others who can't get refunded (probably most Aliexpress purchasers) I'd at least see if it functions correctly, especially wrt temperature regulation, on ungrounded and grounded joints, with the earth at the mains plug disconnected. Obviously great care would be needed to prevent any metalwork on the unit being touched in the event of the power supply being faulty. If it does work properly then a reasonable solution would likely be to disconnect the earth from 24V -ve and earth the tip via the cartridge's TC connection instead. I'd also measure the tip to earth voltage to check for potentially damaging voltages (quite likely I'd expect due to SMPS leakage) to see if it could be used ungrounded as per TS and TC12 tips. A capacitor and/or high value resistor to earth might be enough to shunt the leakage current. I see from a T3A repair video that the 24V -ve is earthed on the power supply board and probably also on the mainboard. Anyone disconnectng the earth from -24V must ensure that all exposed metalwork, including the handset connector and case remain properly earth bonded. I don't post on EEVBLOG so if you were to post a link to these comments then some expert opinions/criticism would likely be helpful to T3A owners.

[@goodun2974]

At 1:10, having used the same exact Aoyue (pronounced A-U) soldering/desoldering station for 5 years (prior to retiring), I can confirm that the Aoyue soldering iron works better with Hakko or other quality tips because the supplied tips are iron or steel throughout, which has poor heat-transfer characteristics compared to the copper tips manufactured by Hakko and a few others. Most of the boatpack tips sold on line or package with knock off soldering irons are similarly made of iron or steel and you can easily verify this with a magnet because the cheap tips will be strongly attracted to the magnet; good quality tips are made of solid copper with iron plating at the pointy end only (iron resists the dissolving effects of molten solder and flux, which would quickly destroy bare copper), and the rest of the tip is plated with chrome to resist solder completely. I have a video on my channel about discerning poor quality tips from good ones with the use of a magnet. By the way although I found the Aoyue soldering iron a little under powered for the type of audio repair work I used to do the desoldering half of the station worked really well, with a couple of minor tweaks and mods to the guns to make them less likely to clog.

[@ncc1701deee]

Oh no, I just ordered a soldering iron from Aliexpress a few days ago. Aifen A9 Pro (Sugon). I didn't really look at the Aixun T3A. I hope it doesn't have similar issues as this Aixun T3A. Informative video, thanks.

[@tony359]

I’m told the A9 is good, fingers crossed! And thanks!

[@_MJ07_]

I've had mine for over a year now and absolutely love it coming from a regular tip station. I too have come across the ground issue accidentally (although i didnt realise the spiking), but quickly found the problem. I don't have the buzzing issues like you though. Even with these concerns, I'd still advise this station over basically any other, especially when paired with genuine JCB tips as the Aixun ones are not as good.

[@tony359]

Indeed the price point of £120 should be taken into consideration. With JBC tips it's hard to beat. Thanks for watching!

[@ville_syrjala]

I've been using a cheap Aiyima T12D iron for some years. Uses Hakko T12 tips, and performs pretty well. Unfortunately the handle uses a screw on sleeve to hold the tip so can't swap the tip easily. I suppose the handle could be swapped for a better one. The tip is definitely grounded on this one however.

[@tony359]

I didn't mention that on the video but the T3A tip is also grounded. It's apparently some noise introduced when there is a ground plane around - it's not clear. But when testing for ground continuity, it's grounded. Thanks for watching!

[@ariestar20]

To the owners of the aixun T320 and aixun T420D, do you know if this problem has been corrected on these new solder stations?

[@jasmijndekkers]

Nice soldering station for your job. I love your content as well. Greetings from Steven from the Netherlands

[@tony359]

Hi Steven, thank you!

[@thealphageek1975]

Thanks again Tony. I've been looking at getting a cartridge station to compliment my traditional Hakko. Really appreciate the thorough analysis!

[@tony359]

Very welcome :)

[@GadgetUK164]

Surprising issues with that station!!! Great video! I am also wondering about the implications of it not being able to accurately control the temperature at all when whatever you are soldering happens to be grounded... Typically a soldering iron tip is connected to earth, this helps with ESD I think - ie. dissimilar surfaces touching, tips expanding etc can generate potential - I do wonder if because they are clearly doing some active stuff with the tip, that means it isn't connected to earth - does that increase the chance that it could create some kind of ESD scenario?!?

[@tony359]

The tip is connected to ground, so I am not sure what's going on here. Also the behaviour has changed since I first tried a month ago so I'm a bit puzzled...

[@jstro-hobbytech]

Irons will sink current if noobs don't look out haha. I use mine every day but I'm not grinding out a living with repairs, thankfully. I know enough to know you use 60/40 when it wasn't the question I asked lol. Dough head. Haha I kid.

[@juanyamasaki9930]

are more suitable for micro soldering you need more mass in order to have no spikes in temp so for large works use larger tips

[@bitsundbolts]

It looks like a nice soldering station, but over 500 degrees when it should be at 360? That should not happen and great that you discovered this! Great review!

[@tony359]

On their Website Aixun boasts the precisions of their soldering station BTW :D Thanks for watching!

[@edic2619]

Thanks for this video. I want to buy this unit, but now I will do extra research to understand the issues. Great video.

[@tony359]

I made a follow up here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nniuaKZjbtmLqZY - the results are even worse. I really do not recommend the T3A. Thanks for watching!

[@ToddeRask]

Nice review, loved it! I'm very curious about the voltage in the tip and eventually risk to destroy something with it, the same about the bouncing temperature when using it on a grounded board. I do wonder if this is also in the T420.

[@tony359]

Apparently it is, being the 420 SMPS based. @NorthWestRepair recently published a video where he reports damaging his AMD testing dongles with the T3A. The bottom line is: an iron must not damage anything. Even if there is a slight chance to do so, then it's not fit for purpose!

[@ToddeRask]

@@tony359 Are there SMPS based T420? Found CaptainBucko writing: "The T420 uses a toroidal transformer to supply 24v AC to the heating element. The tip is a true ground as per IPC soldering standards. It also includes a 8v AC tap on the transformer for the smaller cartridges." This makes me hope T420 doesn't have the same problems.

[@tony359]

Apologies, I think I mixed the model numbers. The 420 seems to be toroidal indeed.

[@must205]

Looking for quality? Ersa or JBC.

[@tony359]

I feel the JBC is overpriced to be fair. Yes it works. Still, it's a soldering iron for £500! I won't argue on the tips: proper materials are expensive. That said, my JBC has been working well, no issues, no overshooting, no voltages...

[@licustoms]

10 months later, I wonder if the problem(s) have been solved? Wonderful video, thank you for all the time you put into creating this and demonstrating the problems you've found. I wonder if the same problem exists in the older firmwares or if you tried further back than 1.33?

[@tony359]

My LCD didn't support anything older, they must have changed the controller. It would work but with a white background and mostly unreadable. But it would still happen. I doubt this can be resolved, maybe mitigated. Thanks for your kind words!

[@licustoms]

@@tony359 Oh I see. Thank you for the update. I guess we'll have to just wait and see if they come out with any more updates for the unit then. Cheers!~

[@MoreFunMakingIt]

Very interesting! I'm looking at upgrading my iron soon and a JBC clone was where i was heading... I'll have to give this some serious thought now! Thanks for the video Tony.

[@tony359]

You're very welcome! I think not even Aixun knows what's going on, it might be tough to find real answers out there...

[@dennishammond3126]

A great and precise review, quite enjoyable and a awesome learning session for me. Thank you, Dennis from Lone Star Texas

[@tony359]

Thank you Dennis for your kind words!

[@ricargoncalves]

@tony359 Hi, it was very nice meeting you today at the museum of computing. I didn't know about the museum, only when I saw in your videos. I wished we had a bit more time to talk, I hope we have the chance to do so anytime soon. Keep up with the great work, not only with the videos as well helping the museum!!

[@tony359]

Olá! Thank you for saying hi, as I said you are the very first person recognising me "in the wild" from my YT videos! I hope you enjoyed the visit - As you are local, feel free to get in touch (my email is on my YT profile), I'd be more than happy to grab a coffee and have a chat!

[@petersessler7124]

Great video thanks. I just ordered one. Will make sure to look for the version number!

[@nss2785]

And I have a question. There is a new model called T413. Is the grounding method of T413 closer to T420 or T320?

[@tony359]

I checked online. It says it has AI and a Neural Network in it. Really, is that necessary? It's not clear what PSU it has inside but given the 120W it might be linear.

[@goodun2974]

PS, the later style Aoyue (pronounced A-U) desoldering tips, with the stainless steel nipple protruding from the tip, are pretty good quality, and as far as I'm aware, unique to Aoyue. The tapered metal tip is indeed copper, aside from the stainless steel tip.

[@Mtaalas]

Good to know that grounding is a thing. But it is *a* thing... :D I've looked over the JBC's schematics and they do a LOT of stuff regarding how they're actually electrically controlling the board. Even their zero crossing detection circuitry is bonkers in it's design, but it has to have some sort of a point to it all, which is probably avoiding or circumventing bugs just like this. MarcoReps on YT also came about a similar issues when he was designing his DIY T470 soldering station where in certain scenarios the instrumentation amplifier is just incapable of reading the thermo couple etc. So these cartridges do pose some design challenges and your R&D needs to be very well behaved :) I now know not to ground the tip by accident. I bought the T3A station because the price for genuine JBC's (even the basic analog model) has gone through the roof. 40-80% more expensive within 2 years across the board... they're not at a price point anymore that's in any way attainable by hobbyist.

[@tony359]

Yes, JBC's prices are unreachable for a DIY'er, this is why I added a comment in the end saying "it's bad but it's also £120!". What puzzled me a bit was to find so many issues which nobody else seemed to have noticed! Thanks for your comment!

[@Duglum666]

@@tony359 I believe it's because yours is the only test with newer firmwares. The older firmwares up to 1.27 behaved fine.. no idea why they decided to make everything worse with (seemingly) 1.29 and above

[@goodun2974]

​@@Duglum666 ummm, *because they ca*, ie, Because the device is software/firmware based. No software/firmware designer is ever happy, and no software/firmware design is ever complete. They'll upgrade it whether it needs it or not,, simply because they can.

[@al-mukhantich]

Hi, Thank you so much for the in-depth review of this little soldering station. I've been using it for a year and it's really a big step up compared to classic stations. Note that Aixun issued a new firmware 1.35 with the following change log: AiXun T3A 1.35 (2023-11-22)JC_M_T3A_1.35.bin 1. Optimize 245 control heating; 2. Optimize the "automatic temperature compensation" function of 245; The problem could be fixed here?

[@tony359]

It’s not unfortunately. I briefly tested it. The first thing I noticed was that - after a full reset - my top was 60C off compared to what the display said. The grounding issue was still there but hidden by the display. So I reverted to 1.33 again. I’ve got a different station now. Thanks for watching!

[@al-mukhantich]

@@tony359 thank you for your feedback! I'll check what new station you have :)

[@tony359]

A quick comparison video is out soon :)

[@pomonabill220]

I have had a Hakko 927 for years and it served me well. The drawbacks that you found on the tiptype iron where you have to unscrew the barrel to change the tip was a drawback for me, but I was able to deal with it. One night though the ceramic heater cracked and the heater opened. I tried a chinese knockoff heater and it was NOT the same. VERY poor performance. So Pace came out with the ADS200 cartridge, and having some experience with Pace, I bought the station. I am very happy with it's performance and power and recovery and have several different cartridges, from pencil thin to wide blade. Always seemed to work well. The problem with grounding the tip on the Aixun and messing up the temperature control loop is a BIG deal breaker for me!!!! My Pace doesn't have that problem though. Nice looking iron, but the drawbacks are deal breakers!

[@tony359]

I am still using my Hakko knockoff and I need to change the tip twice for a project I do regularly. What a pain! With the JBC I do that all the time. I cannot go back. But yes, I need a soldering iron, not a voltage injector :)

[@goodun2974]

​@@tony359, buy an extra soldering iron or two and outfit them with the other tip shapes you use. Still a lot cheaper than cost of a JBC or Pace unit plus tge additional tips.

[@tony359]

@@goodun2974 Also a bigger workbench I guess

[@goodun2974]

@@pomonabill220 , it sounds like you need to use an isolation transformer on the input AC to the soldering station so that you can ground the tip.

[@goodun2974]

@@tony359 , don't we all? Although the amount of equipment and accumulated detritus somehow always expands to fit the available space, no matter how large. Anyway the audio repair bench I worked from for 20 years was only about 4 feet wide, but I had the Aoyue INT701A++ , an old Weller soldering station, and a hot air pencil unit stacked to my right, with a scope, signal generator, distortion analyzer, FM generator, patch bay, bench receiver and other equipment on shelves in front of me. I repaired plenty of large power amplifiers and hifi receivers on that bench. PS, it can be very usefull to have two simultaneously operable soldering irons on the same bench.

[@arabiccola]

Thank you for this review. I am glad that it was not a click bait after all (somewhere around the middle of the video, doubts were starting to arise). Did you try to run the station through an isolation transformer? I wonder if that will change the erroneous behaviour when the board is grounded.

[@tony359]

ahaha very good point but no, I don't like doing that! :) It was suggested that but I never tried. I've got a different station now. Even if that "fixed" the issue, I don't think it could be an acceptable solution anyways. Thanks for watching and watch this space, another T3A follow-up video is coming :)

[@arabiccola]

@@tony359 I watched a recent review and close examination by SDG Electronics of the T320 and even though the fault is inherent in the design as you said, they seem to have figured out a hack in the software to prevent the temperature shooting. It also can take both types of soldering handles I am certainly enticed to buying one.

[@tony359]

if you're referring to the T320 review, I watched that too ("some people on the internet say that" LOL!) but when he tests with a grounded PCB I see the same behaviour. The issue with "the hack" is that if you install 1.35, you won't "see" the overshoot anymore but it's still there. It's just hidden by the software. You can see that in the video with 1.34 too. Or did I miss a different video? Thank you!

[@arabiccola]

@@tony359 kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y6bKaKWCmbSKqtEsi=4Ytz6I01iCdDFCvy&t=1666

[@arabiccola]

@@tony359 Oh I see. My understanding from this part kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y6bKaKWCmbSKqtEsi=4Ytz6I01iCdDFCvy&t=1666 quoted saying "you see something happening and it does pop the temperature up a little bit, but it seems to realise what is going on". So a spike is visible but the assumption is that it does not lead to thermal runaway. Unfortunately he did not use his soldering iron temperature calibration device immediately afterwards to confirm whether the over heating has occurred. The video I am referring to is more recent than this one and the firmware is different. It is at version 1.04

[@fast_squirrel]

Great review, Tony, thank you! You have found severe issues with the station, was interesting to see and remember. I also change tips on my soldering station the exact same way as you do, with pliers :) And it also hardly ever happens, I just always use T-1.6D/T-2.4D tips., whichever is installed at the moment.

[@tony359]

Yes, those "generic" tips are on all the time. However it's so nice to be able to quickly swap if you need a bigger/smaller one! Thanks for watching!

[@TheRetroChannel]

Very interesting. I must say I haven't experienced the same issues in terms of grounding and unstable temperatures. I just tried it now with a large copper plane both grounded and ungrounded (with Aixun and JBC tips) and the power meter remained stable with peaks of 15% but an average of 6%. I don't have a proper way to measure the actual tip temperature though. This is with firmware 1.26, I haven't bothered updating the firmware since I first got it over a year ago. I'd be curious if you find the same issues with yours on 1.26 (assuming it is still available to download)

[@tony359]

I was thinking indeed to downgrade to a much earlier one, SDG electronics is also on a much older one. Let's hope I don't brick it :)

[@iainansell2139]

Good review Tony, It looks as if they've made the PID temp control worse with the latest firmware update and going back one version it's much better. The issue with the spike in temp is interesting and i would to see how they fix it !!! So for now I'll stick with my trusty Weller TCP iron 😅

[@tony359]

Thank you! Who knows what's going on with all those firmware! Thanks for watching!

[@raulvidal4546]

I'm using this station with firmware 1.33 and chinese tips (AiXun and the OEM distributing in carton package imitating JBC which even has the shovel type cartridges). I have measured resistance to ground from a tip and is less than 1 ohm. The tip itself is grounded. I tried heating with a knife tip a cable connected to ground and it didn't behave weird. It maintained temperature with no power spikes.

[@tony359]

Mine is also grounded. Try measuring the voltage when it’s heating. You should measure 1V. Touching ground with a tip doesn’t trigger the issue all the time. It needs a grounded PCB and not all the pins, don’t ask me why. SDG electronics (who failed to mention this channel) has also managed to replicate the issue with a newer model so this is definitely not an isolated issue.

[@artysanmobile]

Thank you for going the extra mile. Lacking that, I would’ve strongly considered buying the Aixun. Out of the question now.

[@tony359]

Why do I feel Axiun will knock at my door soon? 😂 I’m glad the video was useful, thanks for watching!

[@artysanmobile]

@@tony359 Yeah, I thought about that after I hit send. What is common in this situation is to offer a followup review to the manufacturer if they feel they have corrected the issue(s).

[@tony359]

They have my email! :D My approach with these things is: mistakes can happen. Nobody is perfect, and I am no exception. This is why I did contact Aixun before publishing my first review. And I did tell them I was making a review. They chose to ignore me. Not much I can do about that.

[@Zanaz728]

Hmmm I didn't know that buying a soldering iron is such a complicated thing. Thanks for the video I've learned a lot..❤

[@tony359]

ahah yes, and why does a soldering station need a firmware update? :D Thanks for watching!

[@jackipiegg]

24:03 Thanks for making this public! I had noticed this too and swap tips like you did. What I discovered was, the original JBC cartridge tip i have did NOT have this issue. Only aixun cartridge that came with it has this issue. Get an original JBC cartridge tip to solve this problem, although its quite expensive. Clearly they did not able to copy it 1 to 1.

[@tony359]

But that was a JBC tip :) In fact, the "spiking" issue only happened with the JBC - hence Aixun blaming the "non-Aixun" tip for the issue.

[@jackipiegg]

@@tony359 That's weird, I just tested 1.33 and there's no "spiking" on jbc tips, only aixun. Maybe your electrical outlet in your lab is non grounded? that's the only thing i can think of tbh.

[@tony359]

it's 1.34 which spikes on JBC. 1.33 works well with me. I'm talking about the spiking when sitting on a thermometer, the "grounded" spikes happen with both versions, just different behaviour. Earth is working, and you're not the first to say that it doesn't happen with their station so.... maybe HW variations? I really don't know :)

[@jackipiegg]

@@tony359 Yea the behaviour you showed is exactly what happens when I use aixun cartridge. Immediately solved when JBC tips is used. Perhaps the wand itself is faulty? ngl if the problem persists with JBC like yours do, i wouldn't keep it, I'd return.

[@wotfinowski]

Great review! Thank you so much for you time and knowledge!

[@tony359]

Thank you for watching!!

[@chuckmuziani6262]

re: Temperature jump: check inside the handle, the thermocouple lead might be shorting to one of the other leads.

[@tony359]

Thanks - it’s a design flaw unfortunately seen by others too. It’s apparently because of the smps

[@chuckmuziani6262]

@@tony359 Is it noise affecting the thermocouple amp or mosfet switching?

[@tony359]

I’m not sure but I think it’s the thermocouple. Hence the unit thinks the tip has become cold.

[@chuckmuziani6262]

​@@tony359 as if the thermocouple connection is intermittent ... handle internal contacts, or cold solder joint or bad/frayed wire

[@tony359]

@@chuckmuziani6262 it's a design flaw because of the way the SMPS is wired apparently. Models using a linear transformers are not affected. This has been confirmed by others - both reviewers and users - and it's not a fault with my unit unfortunately. Hence why Aixun are trying to hide the issue via software.

[@tonyh6309]

*Solved!* (I think) - part 1. (YT keeps deleting my long reply so I'm trying splitting it into 2) But firstly, to answer wrt. your reply to my earlier comment, they chose an SMPS because it's cheaper, lighter (= lower shipping cost) and smaller (= cheaper enclosure). However I since found your EEVBLOG threads, the reverse engineered schematics and SDG Electronic's pictures, from which the problem seems to be quite obvious and not the fault of an SMPS. The fault seems so obvious that surely I've missed something important? The 24V supply +ve is switched to the tip's heater (LOAD) by a MOSFET, returning to the supply -ve from the tip's COM connection. COM is internally connected to the tip's thermocouple, the other TC connection being to the tip's TC connection which is connected to the tip cartridge's actual tip. The *slap-head design problem* is that they appear to have connected mains earth to supply -ve/circuit ground on the main board - the green/yellow wire you can see in SDG Electronics's review/teardown video. This means that when you touch the tip to another mains earth, the heater current now has an alternative, parallel return path to the -ve supply, flowing from the heater low (COM), through the thermocouple in the tip to the external earth path, through the green/yellow earth wire in the station to the main board and then to 24V supply -ve. Wow! Apalling!!! If your earth path is very low resistance you could fry components or even fine traces on the PCB your soldering!!!!

[@TassieLorenzo]

"YT keeps deleting my long reply" Such replies aren't really deleted, rather it's a bug where they only show up under "Sort by Newest first". Under the default "Sort by Top Comments", the replies don't show up. You can try sort by new, to see if the reply is actually still there. 🙂

[@JohnJones-oy3md]

Great thorough (non)review. It's been 9 months now, just wondering if these issues were ever addressed with a new firmware update. Thank you!

[@tony359]

Thanks. I don’t have the T3A anymore but from my understanding those cannot be resolved via FW. Maybe they can mitigate the overshooting but if the thermocouple can’t see the actual temperature of the tip, then the firmware is driving blind and can only guess.

[@JohnJones-oy3md]

@@tony359 Thank you for the reply. It really is a shame, as other than this issue it looked very promising.

[@woowooNeedsFaith]

Wouldn't isolation transformer fix the grounding issue?

[@tony359]

I have one, I can try. Then you'd lose the grounding altogether though. I believe those tips are grounded for a reason?

[@Hulkeq2]

When I saw it happen i immediately thought it had something to do with the idle mechanism, which bridges your handle with the ground connected to your stand. It would have been logical if the business end of the iron would be closing the loop to ground as well as the handle. Alas I see, doing a frame by frame this isn't the case. Where I assume that the moment you pick up the iron from the stand an actual intended burst happens, this happens when the circuit gets opened not closed, when you touch ground on the pcb with your tip it happens when the circuit gets closed, not opened. Too bad though since that could have fixed the issue by detecting which connection was closing the circuit. I am wondering if the T3AS fixed this.. or if this happens with the T3B or even the T320. Someone mentioned it didn't happen with the T420 but all these claims mean nothing if I don't see the same neutral down to earth person doing the testing. Please consider doing a funding round to buy a few others that are closely related to the T3A , I am curious. A single fet can detect which ground connection was used to close the circuit and fix the problem... maybe they did with newer units. The newest ksger units connect the case to ground without even advertising the fix.. idk.. anyway, thumbs up and ty for the investigating.

[@tony359]

One thing I did not mention is that I am not touching ground with the tip. I am touching a random pin of a GROUNDED PCB. Touching ground does not cause the issue. According to someone on EEVBlog it's noise introduced by a ground plane. My channel is small, this video does not cover the cost of the station, I won't be able to buy other ones to test I'm afraid. Thanks for watching and for commenting!

[@robert574]

Big thing about the older irons that use the 900 style removable tips. They transfer their heat by radiation meaning that the color or emissivity of the inside of the tip is very critical. It needs to be as black as possible on the inside. If you have some tips (knock offs, whatever) that were completely dipped in tin they will be shiny on the inside and will not transfer heat very well at all.

[@tony359]

Very interesting point. I am using genuine Hakko for the 900-style one. The Aoyue perform awfully. I never checked the color of the inner part though!

[@robert574]

I just took a look at my tips. The cheap ones are tin and shiny inside. I have some expensive tips that are black all over and work well. Not sure now where I got them. @@tony359

[@robert574]

Ok, more. The Hakko tips appear to have a steel sleeve in the bore. I read about it and then you can see it with good magnifying glass. I gave away all my old foreign coins and that was a really good idea and test you came up with. I guess I could solder a stack of pennies together or maybe use a brass fitting to test with. I have a Weller W100 (has a temp regulating tip) I use for larger stuff like terminals. Been thinking about a T245 iron. They offer one for like $50, but the fine print says it has the temp fluctuations also that you pointed out. I guess the T12s are not a thing anymore. Also, the voltage on the transformer in my station starts out abt 24V then drops to 21V or so when soldering. That doesn't help either.

[@tony359]

@@robert574 Back when I bought my Aoyue I remember people mentioning the missing sleeve inside those tips. I don't know. I just know that once I tried Hakko tips, the station became useable! :)

[@benjaminwirth5192]

I am owning the Quekoo 956T. I did not ground anything or checked temps, but so far its working really well to me. It has a lot more power than the pinecil 64.

[@tony359]

The pinecil is lovely but surely a low power one! Glad you found one that works for you!

[@jvandervyver]

I saw you mention on EEVBlog you might go for a different station due to how much this is annoying you. Would love for you to review whatever you get next. I sort of hope it isn't genuine JBC and instead you go for something like the Aixun T420 (or 420D). Mostly because I enjoyed the depth of testing here and I very much would love to see if the T420 has this same problem (or maybe some other problems?). I know you said you may as well go JBC considering price of the 420 but I simply can't see the same amount of features on JBC stations as the 420 (two channels) at the same price point.

[@tony359]

Review video is coming, maybe next week! 🙂 thanks for watching!

[@emmettturner9452]

I’ve been using the Int701A++ since 2016. Is yours the older AC pumper version like mine or the newer, stronger, DC pump version that drives the pump directly through the trigger and does not reset the sleep timer when you pull it? Mine is the older AC pump which is entirely too weak. On all but single-layer boards with no ground pour, I end up needing to pinch the hose, draw a vacuum up to full strength by holding the trigger, then pull the hose straight. You need three hands!

[@tony359]

mine is probably around 2016 - It's not the best but it works and no, the vacuum doesn't reset the sleep timer I think - but how do I know, it's not being displayed. The nozzle clogs often - but that's kind of normal with a de-soldering station. Make sure it's warmed up for like 7-8 minutes before you use it and I keep it at 480C all the time as my thermometer says the de-soldering tip is actually much cooler than the station says. The iron works ok as long as you DON'T use Aoyue tips :) I opened it up once and cleaned the pump.

[@emmettturner9452]

@@tony359 People reported getting DC Int474A+ in 2015 and DC Int701A++ in 2016. So, yeah, you’re right on the line. Both stations are the same internally except the 474 doesn’t populate the 701’s soldering iron side. I’m sure they both updated in 2015 but the more-expensive 701 took longer to sell through old inventory. The AC pump has two diaphragms while I believe the DC pump only has one. The AC version also wakes from sleep (“---“, not “Off”) and starts heating when you pull the trigger. The DC pump is powered through the trigger which another KZbinr says the switch isn’t rated for. He added a mod board to reduce the switched current through a MOSFET and restore the original trigger-wake function to his 474. I opened mine to clean the pump inside and out the moment my SRA-Solder warranty expired in 2017… but nothing improved. The pump was full of yellow dust but it did not appear to be causing my issues. I gave up desoldering and just used the fume extractor… until even that quit working later in 2017. I literally heard the airflow get slower while I was working until it stopped with the pump still running. The clog was yellow flux dust hidden in the fitting where the internal tubing connects to the external port. I couldn’t tell it was constricted because the clear inner tubing looked deceptively clean (no yellow dust) and that part was double-filtered. I removed the cover again and realized there there was no light coming through the clear internal tubing when I removed the barb cap and filter element. I shoved a watercolor brush in there and a puff of yellow dust appeared in the tube! I got excited thinking that was my issue all along but was disappointed to find it was just as bad as before. I used all the tricks. The motor simply takes too long to spool up, pulling solder away on the same side before suction is strong enough to pull from the other side of a board with plated through-holes. Of course, this breaks your heat bridge that is keeping the solder molten on the other side… so it stays put even after suction builds. Cranking the temp, adding fresh solder, and turning the board over (gravity assist!) while making sure the lead wiggles on both sides before you pull helps with some pins. I bought it specifically to get rid of that kind of tedium when desoldering large DIPs and headers, and it still wasn’t enough for power/ground on the boards I work with. I actively avoided using it as much as possible so it took years to figure out exactly what was happening and develop the hose pinch technique. I’ve seen people with the stronger DC pumps who have the exact same problem to a lesser degree. At least their’s were more useful in the first place but they’re still greatly improved by spooling up to maximum suction before pulling solder. Kainka Labs demonstrated a couple different vacuum modifications to accomplish this with his ZD-915, a similar DC pump unit. I shared the hose-pinch trick in the comments to another Aoyue video and got a reply from someone with the DC pump saying it changed everything for him. I’ve since moved to a foot pedal and solenoid to control mine but the hose-pinch doesn’t require any mods… though you may want to graft a third arm to assist. ;) Funny you should mention a 7-8 minute warm up: I set my sleep timer to 8 minutes specifically and use it like an egg timer. As soon as it sleeps I pull the trigger to wake it back up and I know it’s almost time to begin desoldering. You are absolutely right about the tip temperature but it’s also not very reactive to high thermal loads, requiring me to run it dangerously hot most of the time. To limit how much time a power or ground connection is in contact with a 480° tip, I often preheat those to a safe temperature with my regular iron, which is difficult to juggle without that body modification I mentioned (do recommend!).

[@tony359]

Now I cannot remember how many diaphragms mine has - I might be confusing with my old hot air station which also had a diaphragm pump. Yellow dust? I had yellow goo, not dust! I cannot complain too much about mine though. It needs constant attention: clean the sucking hot pipe, the metal "spring" and keep the gaskets lubricated and clean. When that's done, I can hear the air being sucked in. I often take the tip close to my ear to confirm (one day I'll burn my ears): no "sucking" noise means I need to stop and clean it. While I'd love a better one, mine is totally usable. It's Aoyue. It's random. I got lucky apparently :) And no, I don't think mine can be woken up by the trigger but I cannot be 100% sure. I normally have to push on the middle button.

[@emmettturner9452]

@@tony359 It makes the sound but takes too long build enough suction to clear both sides. It eventually gets there, but not until the solder on the same side has come through, breaking the heat bridge and sucking air that cools everything else. Suction increases as the pump builds speed and removes air from the station’s own lines but that half-second is too gradual. By the time it’s strong enough to pull solder from the other side the surface solder has already gone through the tip and it’s pulling air, cooling the lead and tip causing the remaining solder to solidify on the other side. It needs to pull right away with enough suction to clear everything while it’s still molten on both sides. Pinching/releasing the hose while holding the trigger can do this… awkwardly. Yeah, I was using MG Chemicals 845 Rosin flux and their 60/40 RA flux solder at the time, which made a bright yellow chalky dry dust. One thing that annoyed me is that they included the silicon grease labeled “for cleaning desoldering gun” without any instructions on what to grease or how you “clean” with it. After pouring through my own manuals and quick start guides, I downloaded multiple versions online and all you could get was that it’s “for cleaning.” The only cleaning instructions just tell you how to use the drill and pin for clearing the pipe… no mention of the silicon grease. I even dug up Hakko’s manuals to see if they have instructions for cleaning with silicon grease, but they don’t. Eventually I figured it was most likely to coat the spring and seal the collection tube AFTER cleaning, so that’s how I still use it today.

[@tony359]

Interesting. You can hear the noise mine does in my videos - which one I don't know but whenever I de-solder something :) I can very much understand what you say about the joint cooling down if the solder is not being sucked away fast. Ah and I see what you mean about the yellow dust - my MG chemical braid has the same. And yes, I also realised the silicone grease was to "protect" parts after cleaning. I've been thinking of getting a better one for a while - they just cost a fortune and this honestly works without pinching the tube! :)

[@Maxximilian]

Hi, I have purchased the T3a this week, my firmware version is 1.26 and the calibration is acceptable but due to annoying background noise I disassemble the device and all the Electrolyte capacitors and X2 cap been replaced, the manufacturer used Huahong🤔 brand instead of quality Japanese caps. 2* 35v 1000uf 1*400v 82uf 1* 35v 470uf 1* 50v 10uf 100nf x2 275v The noise being mitigated but due to high amount of glue around Set button the front glass cracked during the removal process, also I own Jbc T210 station and regarding its 3x price compared to Aixun in my country the handle weigh difference is also noticeable.

[@tony359]

yes the glued front panel is another reason why I didn't want to open mine! On EEVBlog forum there is a long conversation about the T3A, the noise comes from the waveform used to drive the handle more or less. It makes some component to "sing". It's just the design. Good capacitors can only help! Thanks for watching!

[@canuhonk7433]

I wonder how hot the inside gets. Looks like it needs additional ventilation and a fan.

[@tony359]

Maybe. The unit is sealed so I didn't want to "lose the warranty" even though with those things from Aliexpress there really is no warranty, right? :)

[@taffeylewis]

Very informative video Tony. I've always been interested by these types of iron. But as I don't do anywhere near the amount of soldering you do, I think I'll stick to my Weller WE 1010 :-)

[@tony359]

Weller is a good one! Those stations can last a lifetime! Maybe I should have invested in a better one! However, that's why I'd rather buy JBC/Hakko tips: I can always change the station later on and re-use my very good tips!

[@wimwiddershins]

Have you checked for leakage on the tip using a meter between tip and ground?

[@tony359]

I did, it didn't make it in the video! I measured this: VOLTAGE GND to TIP: 0.584V AC when heating GND to TIP: 0.915V DC when heating CURRENT GND to TIP: 1.5A DC when heating GND to TIP: 1.74A AC when heating The tip is indeed grounded though...

[@frosty129]

Wow a full amp of leakage? This 1.5A of current is going through the board being soldered?? This is so much worse than I thought. This can very easily fry components.

[@andream1977]

Great video Tony!

[@tony359]

Thank you Sir!

[@philiprogers5772]

My 25 year old weller wc51 stays on all day and is always hot and ready to go. Have I missed something or has Aixun fixed a problem nobody had?

[@tony359]

eheh! Well, the 245 tips have a huge advantage on the tips used by your weller - they can be exchanged in moments. Aixun tried to deliver a high-power, low-cost station. But compromising on the voltage leakage.

[@philiprogers5772]

@@tony359 I can see swapping tips quickly would be an advantage.

[@tony359]

I wouldn't want anything else now, I got spoiled :)

[@MrKvarkk]

Does the Aixun softwarte allow installing any previous FW version?

[@tony359]

Yes but only up to a certain level.

[@MrKvarkk]

@@tony359 what is the latest FW version number for the moment?

[@tony359]

@@MrKvarkk I do not know, I sold this iron.

[@tsunamidztouhami5103]

Does it work with a C210 handle

[@simontay4851]

The intermittent temperature spiking, the screen lieing and weird issue with grounded boards is unacceptable. It means the tip is not grounded. I won't be buying.

[@pufero1]

the 420 dont have this isuues whit the last version and the ones it come just tested.The issue is how stupid is the price of the 420D when the 420 is the same station i got the 420 and buy the 110 holder and tips and was 266€ . For me is the best chineses station.

[@tony359]

I didn't mention that on the video but the tip is indeed grounded. On EEVBlog they speculate that it's some sort of noise which is interfering with the thermocouple reading going to the station. Not sure! Thanks for watching!

[@DeathDecider]

Has the grounding problem been resolved?

[@tony359]

I don't know, I got rid of it :)

[@DeathDecider]

@tony359 😂

[@zopilotesky]

Good review. I have the same Aoyue station and it's been ok overall and I've repaired many pieces of equipment with it, but it's weak and slow. The solder pump gun is adequate but, again, weak and slow. I've been looking for a reasonably priced replacement with newer tech and just can't make up my mind. I'm not real enthusiastic about switch mode power supply units and would prefer a linear transformer design with enough get up and go to increase productivity, so my search continues. It's looking as though I should save my pennies and get a name brand unit with good firmware/software. I'm surprised SDG didn't pick up on the issue, but I don't know what firmware version he tested with. I agree with your summation, 1.34 was obviously created to hide the issue. Thanks for the honest review.

[@tony359]

SDG heard of the issue and analysed it in a later video with a different Aixun station. It looks like stations with a linear PSU are good - but the T3A was also described as "good" so I'm not sure :) Thank you!

[@goodun2974]

I used the Aoyue INT701A plus plus station for the last 5 years of my audio electronics repair career and it worked well for me. The earlier units used an AC motor and later units use a DC motor and I'm not sure if one was better than the other but I'm pretty sure mine had the AC motor. I found the suction to be generally pretty good from it but I did do a couple of modifications to the gun to center the tips better in the heating element and prevent clogs at the back end of the stainless steel tube where it enters the collection chamber. I actually had fewer problems with that desoldering station that I had when using 80s vintage Hakko desoldering stations. I was less impressed with the soldering iron wand that came with it although it does work better, as noted elsewhere here, if you use a Hakko tip that's actually made of copper and not a solid iron or steel tip as was provided and as so many online purchases of tips turn out to be.

[@vytautasslenderis2702]

That is why I do not accept any soldering stations with switch mode power supplies. Also, that is why top brands like JBC, Hakko, etc., always make their soldering stations with linear power supplies with a transformer.

[@tony359]

Yes, I'd be curious to see how the new 420 behaves which has a linear transformer in it! Thanks for watching!

[@samuraidriver4x4]

Second hand top brand > Chinese brand. Using a Weller station with linear power supply normaly but I do have a Chinese import with switch mode supply I use when on site somewhere. The Weller might be a bit slow to heat up but it's so much more stable, bought it second hand for 45 euros.

[@tony359]

is that a cartridge style one?

[@tookitogo]

There are exceptions: Weller makes one (the portable station which is available with a battery option) that uses a switcher.

[@ahmedsahid5036]

Which software did you use to check/upgrade firmware? It does not look like the official one I've been using. The one from AiXun now asks for credentials and errors out when trying to register as new user. Right now I cannot update the firmware anymore because of this issue.

[@tony359]

Did they break the software too? :) It's from Aixun website "Aixun Software", I also had to register and I had to update multiple times :) I downloaded from aixuntech.com

[@ahmedsahid5036]

@@tony359 Figured it out, there is a section where it asks for a code to complete the registration which I omitted. My bad! Great review by the way.

[@imqqmi]

I had that with my diy speaker and cross over, with the amp off but still attached, I heard a buzzing sound from the speakers (resoldered a loose connection) Probably better to use a separation transformer on the T3A.

[@tony359]

Yes, today I was soldering with the oscilloscope connected and I could see the heating pulses on the scope. This thing is dumping voltage through the tip. I think I'll move to a different model, this feels unsafe for the PCBs.

[@imqqmi]

@@tony359 Care certainly must be taken with this iron, but it's fine for my purposes. I like it a lot too, with some JBC original cartridges. I usually work on stuff that can be disconnected.

[@tony359]

I cannot deny it works for 90% of the intended purposes. It's just I also work with those 10% as well and those issues are always in the way.

[@tony359]

@imqqmi Thank you for sharing your experience, I made a short showing the same issue: kzbin.info6rK7ACrbukI It's bad. I'm going to find a replacement ASAP. Thanks again!

[@alibali4445]

I thought it just was my handle that was faulty because of the buzzing. So there's no way to get rid of it?

[@tony359]

Apparently not, the way the power is being delivered to the tip makes everything sing! :) The community is looking into solutions but apparently it's not going to be super-easy. Mine is not so noticeable but it's there... Thanks for watching!

[@velinr]

Finaly! A usefull review!

[@tony359]

Thank you for your kind words!

[@AG-cg7lk]

There have been a few firmware updates since this video. Did you try them?

[@tony359]

This is not something that can be fixed by a firmware I'm afraid. I did try 1.35 I think, the issues were still there and my JBC tip was off by 60C after a full reset. Meanwhile 1.36 came out, I don't use the T3A anymore but I haven't read any enthusiastic comments about that on EEVBlog. Since 1.34, Aixun seem to go to the "let's hide this problem" direction so upgrading might not always be the best idea. Thanks for watching!

[@CanaleYouTubeGeneralista]

Hi, I need to buy my first soldering station, I have a limited budget unfortunately, I didn't want to go over 100€ if possible, I was looking for a quality and resistant soldering station that will last me for many years, which model do you recommend ?

[@tony359]

I haven't got a recommendation unfortunately. I ended up buying a JBC but that's quite expensive. I understand you want to stay away from stations with a switching power supply inside. But at this time I don't have a model I can recommend. Good luck :)

[@CanaleYouTubeGeneralista]

@@tony359 Thanks for replying, yes exactly I wanted to buy an analog soldering station with a traditional linear power supply, yes the JBC ones are too expensive for me, for now I have only found Chinese soldering stations, the cheapest one let's say is the hakko fx-888d but it already costs 120€, I'm also thinking of buying a quality soldering iron like the Ersa 30s or the JBC 30ST even if unfortunately they are not adjustable.

[@TassieLorenzo]

The word "unacceptable" is used a lot for a 200W T245-type soldering station which is *cheaper* than the most basic 50-60W ceramic Hakko FX888D or Weller WE1010! What does a buyer expect, given the low price? 🤔

[@tony359]

An iron which doesn't leak 1V and 1.4A :) Power is not everything.

[@TassieLorenzo]

@@tony359 😁Good point! Thanks for the video, it was very interesting!

[@wilfredswinkels]

Thanks for this review Tony. I have the same one. You showed me to update to 1.33 :-D. What happens when you put a 1megohm in the ground line? (make an ESD ground (what it should be I think))

[@tony359]

The ground line of the soldering iron? To be fair, I don't want to mess with ground, if a device has a ground connection, it's for my own safety. The T3A is already leaking about 1V through the tip (yes, I know it doesn't make sense if it's grounded but that's what my Fluke says) and tinker with ground might not be the best idea. In the end I don't want to damage my PCBs but the T3A is proving to be "unfit for purpose" the more I use it. Ah, and stay away from the latest firmware, 1.35. It's also bad. Thanks for watching!

[@wilfredswinkels]

@@tony359 No your right! I mean the clip wire to ground doesn't need to be a hard ground. That should be an ESD ground (your blue anti static ESD arm band also has an 1Megohm resistor to ground in it). If the producer of the iron is cheap, they omit the 1 megohm. and you have a hard ground on the clip. which does crazy things. So you could try it by clipping a 1megohm resistor to the clip and touching ground with it to see if the iron goes crazy or not.

[@wilfredswinkels]

@@tony359 Darn. I forgot to ask you for the link to the upgrades you showed. I cant find them on Aixun website.

[@tony359]

The ground clip was to show you the problem. The real world scenarios I mentioned (another soldering iron, the signal generator, the pre-heater) can't have a 1MOhm resistor I'm afraid! I think I'll move to a proper station soon... To update it's the Aixun software on their website. The update is done within the software.

[@Gajae99]

Thank you for the good video I'm thinking about buying this or AIXUN T320 or AIFEN A9 PLUS It was a great reference Do you have any products you recommend?

[@tony359]

My understanding is that the 320 shows the same issue the T3A has. The AIFEN I don't know, it's very unclear. Apparently as long as it has a LINEAR transformer inside, it should be good. But too many copycats around to find out...

[@Gajae99]

@tony359 Thank you for letting me know

[@prissx784]

Can you review Aixun t320?

[@tony359]

I've got enough of junk soldering stations! The 320 has a similar behaviour.

[@theovannieuwenhuizen5756]

Top review, much appreciated! Looking to replace my old iron for something more modern and faster heating. Guess the aiXun t3a is off my list. Any luck with their 320 and up models? Best regards from the Netherlands.

[@tony359]

Thank you! I really don't feel like recommending Aixun to anyone here but I am told that the one with the linear power supply (320? 420?) does not have the "I'm melting your PCB" issue :) Sugon also make a similar one - but I don't have experience with that. Thanks for watching!

[@theovannieuwenhuizen5756]

Thanks for your honest reply. Much appreciated!

[@ОбыкновенныйПарень]

Hi 👋 what is must choose for t245 - aixun t320 or jabe ud-1200? Thanks

[@tony359]

Not familiar with the Jabe I'm afraid :)

[@MrBoomtheroom]

have the issues been fixed yet by firmware?

[@tony359]

I doubt a FW can fix that, it's a HW issue. They're trying to hide it :)

[@g3force782]

Is the handle buzzing issue dangerous to the user and can we fix it?

[@tony359]

I don't think it's dangerous, there is low voltage there. It should be a combination of poor assembly but also the way the heating pulses happen: they make everything "sing", including passive components!

[@g3force782]

@@tony359 Hey man I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my question. Enjoy your weekend!

[@forastero233]

te refieres a la coneccion, earth, verdad (conexion a pozo) pero que pasa sino tengo la conexion al subsuelo ?

[@tony359]

I'm not sure what you mean, the translation is not clear.

[@forastero233]

profe buenas, quiero comprar hoy de aliexpress cual me recomiendas tengo presupuesto de 150 dolares gracias

[@tony359]

Con 150 dollari non saprei davvero. Io ho dovuto cedere e comprare un JBC perche' ero stanco di comprare ciarpame da Aliexpress.

[@forastero233]

@@tony359 😩😩😩😩 profe, no seas malo ahora quien podra salvarme 🙂 pero igual gracias

[@Gatkovski]

Have You tried 1.35 version? Are these problems still there?

[@tony359]

I gave it a quick test, the first thing I noticed was that my usual tip was now 60C off (this is after resetting the station). The grounded PCBs issue was still there. I really feel those issues cannot be fixed via software I'm afraid.

[@ZZZ-z9n3n]

what about the JBC BT-2BQA ? the price is not so expensive as the JBC BT-2BQA, it's half the price of the later, you only miss the digital display

[@tony359]

It's something I have considered, yes. Again, after all it's a metal rod getting hot :) I'm really wondering if you really need a microprocessor and a display! :) I'm getting a JBC, I cannot risk my PCBs with this thing. I'll publish a quick comparison soon - even though I appreciate it's 4-5 times the price.

[@ZZZ-z9n3n]

just remember, you can't directly calibrate the JBC BT-2BQA , you need something like the JBC AC2600 (AC-A) soldering console (you can change the time sleep, temp etc) but the product is retired that's why it's more expensive i guess, you have directly a way to calibrate the soldering station but i don't know if it's worth 250$/euros

[@tony359]

interesting! To be fair, I don't think you need your soldering tip to be 100% precise - and it's an analogue station anyways. When you set it to 350, I feel it's ok if it's 360 or 370. Not 400. I doubt a proper station would need some massive calibration - that tool is likely for a service centre of if you own a lab with multiple stations and you want to make sure they're working well. I don't think they are intended for the individual. It's cool to know though, particularly if you think of buying a second hand station (which might have drifted) and discover it cannot be adjusted easily :)

[@Shmbler]

What a shame. If touching a grounded PCB causes such issues then the tip itself cannot be grounded by the station, right? My first thought would be issues with the PSU of the station. I found that many ungrounded switch mode power supplies leave half the mains voltage on the DC side (maybe coupled though the safety X cap?). Sometimes it even sparks and hurts when touching the DC side. I'd measure the voltage between the tip and ground just out of curiosity ;-)

[@tony359]

The weird thing is that the tip is grounded. I did measure some voltage between the tip and ground, only when heating. Kind of scary, about 1V but up to 4A if not mistaken. Not what you'd expect from a soldering iron...

[@Shmbler]

​@@tony359 4A? I bet the ground wire to the tip is also the current return path for the heating element. Now if the current is high and the wire comparably thin that will create a significant voltage drop across the cable. That explains why the tip is not at the same ground potential as your PCB/ground strip. Now maybe the station observes the heating current, and because part of it flows over your ground strip the station sees less current than it should and thus increases the current -> heat goes up.

[@tony359]

That could be a very good explanation!

[@ameliabuns4058]

nobody mentioned the grounding issues :( that sucks!

[@tony359]

Tell me about that... :)

[@ameliabuns4058]

@@tony359 do you know any good other alternatives in the price range? not that I could afford it lol

[@tony359]

I'm told the Sugon with the linear transformer is good - but the T3A was also supposed to be good so... :)

[@Voyager_2]

Wow that PID loop is really really bad. My guess would be they "borrowed" some code they did not fully understand. I have a JBC station but mine has problems storing settings and reverses back to its default settings at random it's annoying as ^@#$. I was about to buy two of the Aixum stations but it now seems that's also not a solution.

[@tony359]

Oh, I'd expect JBC to be able to sort out similar issues! But yes, maybe the T3A is not good to replace a JBC :)

[@stockholm-tech]

Have anyone tried to switch out and replace the switched power supply board with a full transformer and bridge rectifier, that might solve the ground loop issue!?

[@tony359]

It might, but I'm not really sure it would be worth. I think you can buy a unit with a linear supply with the money you're going to spend and it won't look like frankeinstein on your desk! But yes, it would ne nice to test.

[@stockholm-tech]

Another solution might be to use a separate small PSU for controll circuit ? @@tony359

[@stockholm-tech]

Could render an new interesting KZbin follow up ;)

[@tony359]

@@stockholm-tech the T3A is not easy to open, it's partly a destructive process. I need to sell mine :D

[@MrGuru_926]

4:22 Not quite. Look more closely at a genuine Hakko tip and you will find a very thin sleeve inside the tip. Those chinese knock-off tips don't include the thin sleeve so they are basically useless because the hole inside the tip is way too big to efficiently transfer the heat from the element to the tip. If you don't have a proper Hakko soldering iron like the Hakko 936 try to get access to one owned by a friend or buy a genuine Hakko tip and take a look inside and you'll find a thin steel sleeve. Use the genuine tip on your cheapo chinese knockoff soldering station and you will see a dramatic difference in heat transfer vs the knockoff tips.

[@tony359]

I remember reading about that when I got the station and if I remember right I fiddled with some metal shims but that did not really work for me. But that was a long time ago. Yes, I know genuine Hakko tips increase the performance a lot take a look at 1:05 :) Thanks for watching!

[@Duglum666]

While 1.35 has been out for a while now, it didn't really fix the issues as far as i'm aware. The biggest problem with these newer firmwares i have is that it does not report the actual temperature but instead just displays the set temperature when it overshoots or the tip cools. I've downgraded to 1.27 which works fine and does actually report the real temperature.

[@tony359]

You are very correct. I quickly tested 1.35 and it didn't resolve anything but - as you noticed - continues to "hide" those massive overshoots. I went back to 1.33 - mine doesn't support 1.27, the screen would get white... Thanks for watching!

[@Duglum666]

@@tony359 Oh, that's unfortunate. They must've changed something on the hardware side the older firmwares don't support then i guess. Both my T3A's are well over a year old by now and run the 1.27 just fine. But this means that it is an even bigger problem they really should fix when newer users are not able to downgrade anymore.

[@tony359]

Exactly. But given the direction they are going, I'd say they're unable or unwilling to do so.

[@Gurusi]

@@tony359 I ordered hoping to downgrade to 1.27. Unfortunately I also get the flickering white display. I’m guessing any current manufactured models don’t support 1.33 and below due to the display issues. What’s better 1.35 or 1.33 for overshooting temps/honestly displaying it?

[@tony359]

@@Gurusi I didn't really play with 1.35 a lot. I only noticed that - My JBC tip was 60C off (after a reset) - The ground issue was still there - The display would always display the set temp even when spiking So I went back to 1.33 which at least tells me the truth. But please also check my latest test against a JBC, the T3A (at least some of them?) leak voltage at the tip! kzbin.info/www/bejne/nniuaKZjbtmLqZY Sorry for being the bearer of bad news :)

[@thanhpham-kv7xe]

have you been grounding(wire in the box) ur sodering station for fix error dump dump.

[@tony359]

I am not sure I understand. The ground wire in the box is for grounding equipment, not the station. The station gets ground from the mains cable. I haven't tried grounding the tip - but it does measure continuity to ground by itself. Thanks for watching

[@thanhpham-kv7xe]

@@tony359 ok that sound fair but why another reviewer also test it but dont have that crazy overshoot or some thing similarly.

[@tony359]

I don't know! But this has been acknowledged by others - there is a thread on EEVBlog and also at least another reviewer who was able to replicate it on their station as well.

[@thanhpham-kv7xe]

@@tony359 that make me thinking alot. Do you have another solution in this price range ?. I want to have a good quality and look catching eye soldering station but also not burning my wallet like genuine jcb one.

[@tony359]

I don't I'm afraid. Again, I'm told the ones with a linear transformer are ok. But I am a small channel - and I needed a good working station - I cannot afford to keep buying them unfortunately!

[@arielguzman9336]

I have a yihua 939D+. I’m glad I ordered the cheap hakko temp sensor so I can check when it arrives. I will take a page from you and order hakko tips lol

[@tony359]

You won't regret the genuine Hakko tips - just make sure you buy them from Hakko and not Ebay or Aliexpress or you'll get copycats for sure :) Thanks for watching!

[@goodun2974]

​@@tony359, i posted a video on my channel about using a magnet to tell good tips from bad

[@rpsmith]

Firmware 1.35 is available now!

[@tony359]

It’s as bad as 1.34…

[@elvinhaak]

And you call the 396 like a 'traditional iron'.... do the tip-change to a real traditional iron instead.... Cool it down, get the screwdriver, try to get the small screw on the end loose, cool down more if needed, heat a bit to get the tip loose (hopefully not bend inside the handle), take plyers and carefully take the tip out. Then put the other one in, turn the heat on, wait for about 5 minutes and your iron is on temperature... Those more traditional irons (also on stations) have / had no temperature feedback and are only depending on the temperature of the surrounding and what you solder with it. I have for example a 25Watt, a 40Watt, 60 Watt and 100 Watt iron and depending on surrounding-temperature and tipsize it gets to around 240 - 380 degrees after the time it takes to heat. But well, there is some mass so it does not cool down. With my traditional station, same thing but I can control the power. So for example only halfwave, 30 Watt on the 60 Watt iron... The what you call 'traditional' iron with some temperature-control and measurment is already a big step up to those! And then just turn them off, unplug the handle and take another handle with another tip since the handles are pretty cheap but very easy to break the heating-element or damage it otherwise like overheating when you didn't screw the tip on tightly-enough.

[@MrTon4eff]

🤣 Aixun won't come up the better firmware! I can sign and confirm that it gets progressively worse with T420D too. And gues what, it also works much worse with every single firmware available compared to the original JBC CDB/CDS station! Thank you for the honest review! That's very rare these days...

[@tony359]

Well we'll see what they do - what matters is that potential buyers are aware of those flaws and that Aixun's support is what it is :) Thanks for watching!

[@MrFido7up]

Do you think T3B fixed these issues ?

[@tony359]

No, T3B is a smaller version of the T3A, it's not an updated model. Someone says you need a Linear transformer to avoid these issues. I wouldn't recommend Aixun anymore though.

[@jurgenkruger3932]

Because of controlled ESD discharge, you have to ground everything, including yourself. Professionells who must work according to the IPC standards, know this and act accordingly. 😂😂 Besides, you can make the ground connection with a 1 MegOhm resistor. This will maintain the necessary ground connection and does not disturb the temperature sensor.

[@tony359]

yes but it's too much of a hassle. I don't want to have to waste time on this because someone made a lousy design!

[@kenabi]

for the average price of these.. i'll be sticking with the t12 systems in place. open source firmwares are available with ease, you can get hakko tips so if there's problems you _know_ its the station you need to poke at for the source, and for the most part they've just kind of worked. i also haven't seen this pwm buzz in any of the t12 variants. while these t245 chinese variants appear to have a number of teething issues still. i don't find the few upsides over the t12s to be enough to justify switching to the t245's just yet. soldering irons are one of the few things i don't want to spend any time fiddling around with it trying to get it to play nice. its one thing if i'm making my own wands for swap outs, thats on me. its another entirely if its out of the box behavior. not gonna deal with it.

[@tony359]

I was thinking of a T12 too. Then I saw so many good reviews of this 245 and went for this! I am somehow happy with it, but definitely was not expecting these issues.

[@Alpha-DX]

@kenabi Can you reccommend a good T12 system please?

[@JamesScalper]

So ? buy or no buy ?

[@tony359]

Absolutely NOT! :)

[@gsmp3744]

@tony359 thanks for reply, so which one is better one than this at this price please ? Give us a solution. Thanks

[@tony359]

I don't have it unfortunately. I am told that the ones using a LINEAR power supply are ok. But the T3A was also supposed to be ok so I do not know.

[@Alpha-DX]

Hi Tony, great video. Subbed ! I'm on the fence with getting one of these. I mainly do thru hole but want to work down to 2012 SMD. I dont have a soldering station ATM and have narrowed down my choices to: Sugon T21 120w T115/T210/T245 + C470 compatability Sugon T16 75w T12 Aifen A2 120w T115/T210/T245 Aifen A9 Pro 120w T115/T210/T245 Aixun T3A Aixun T320 (the new model) Im also thinking of going tried & tested with the Hakko FX-888D or 951 ( rip off price ATM though). I dont really need far-eastern drama on my tabletop. Reading through all these comments hints to me that it's a gamble whichever clone you choose. If you were buying a new station today for the same use-case as me, what would you choose Tony?

[@tony359]

unfortunately I only know the T3A. I keep encountering that "ground" issue and it's always in the way. As such, I cannot recommend it. I do not know if the T320 is better. Good luck!

[@Alpha-DX]

Thank you Tony 👍

[@general23cmp]

Great video!

[@tony359]

Thank you!

[@FireballXL55]

My only reservation is the cartridge based systems are more wasteful in that you are using and disposing of more material.

[@tony359]

It's a good point. How long are they supposed to last? All my Hakko tips are still in good shape, I think they will outlast me :) Thanks for watching!