Are Onkyo's overheating?

[@MVVblog]

You're absolutely right; designers couldn't care less if some component reaches the boiling point as long as it falls within the working specifications. The important thing is to get a good review in the magazines. Besides, next year they'll tell you that what you bought is surpassed by the new model with the "super Plank interval circuitry" that exposes all the dynamic micro-contrasts of your favorite music, originally printed on a 1960 vinyl, so... if it breaks after the warranty, who cares!

[@tony359]

A BBC engineer told me that his favourite technobbable was "I fixed that by tightening the earth return flange bolt". Some time later he was then asked by another studio "can you tell us where the earth return flange bolt is as we would like to fix it by ourselves"! This consumerism is horrible - as it's the silly marketing technobabble you mentioned. Grazie per la visita! :)

[@tommuller817]

Yes, I have a brand new system and it is still very hot even in idle. I already put a Fan in my cabinet, but now because of your video I will get inside and install ab proper ventilation. Thanks for the information. .. I like your channel . Greeting form Germany

[@tony359]

Guten tag! Thanks for watching and I'm glad the video was useful!

[@superbatmichael]

Thank you! I just got the same Onkyo amplifier today and I was astonished at how hot it got running 2 channels at low volume. I'm hoping fans will help enough to keep the amp running for some time. Thanks again for the tips.

[@tony359]

Amazing! I hope it lasts for many many years! :) Thanks for watching!

[@zs1dfr]

Hi again, Dave here. I acquired an ONKYO TX-SR607 5.2 channel AV receiver about 3 years ago, for the equivalent of 5 quid in our money on an auction. Described as faulty and no display. In fact it was working single 2.2ohm resistor on the board below the HDMI board had overheated and blown (This is a common fault apparently). The resistor stands up in the edge of that lower board right opposite the output transistor's driver boards. Replace the resistor and it worked, until it blew again. Eventually I brought 2 leads out through the vents on top and installed a 5 watt resistor externally! Now works perfectly. I also installed a quiet 12 volt PC fan INSIDE the cabinet but exactly where you shows those driver boards, and found 9 v DC near the mains transformer, which runs the fan whenever the rig is on, venting hot air upwards. Much better! Thanks for this

[@tony359]

You're welcome! I need to re-visit this unit as when I shot the video I didn't realise it was actually faulty (the usual HDMI IC issue) and I'd like to share a few things I found. It's been a BIG and HEAVY paperweight since I got it....

[@zs1dfr]

@@tony359 Yup, the DSP chip at top right of the HDMI board...... Good luck!

[@simontay4851]

The cover of my Denon AVR-2800 was getting hot so i added a 120mm fan on the top. I connected it to the output of the 7812 reg with a resistor in series. Even running very slow, it brings the temperature down by at least 10C. The cover definitely feels cooler to touch now.

[@tony359]

Yes in my experience a heatsink on those ICs and a slow fan on top reduces the IC temps by about 20C which is insane! Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@taffeylewis]

I agree. I've had 3 Onkyos now. And while I think they are really well suited to my needs, they do seem to run rather hot. On that note though, my current TX-NR515 is cool when in standby. Which is more than I can say for the TX-SR506 I had. Even in standby it was running hot. Fans and heatsinks are the way to go on these. Wouldn't take much thought for them to design in proper ventilation really.

[@tony359]

I sold my old Onkyo pre-amplifier (no amplification, just signal processing) and I remember the buyer complained it was running too hot for no reason! The heat was coming from the voltage regulators which were running at silly temps for absolutely no reasons whatsoever. Thanks for watching!

[@soumendutta5574]

I have Onkyo TX NR3010. From day 1, I put up a DEEP COOL variable speed laptop cooler over top of the case, connected to the usb port in the rear. Countless hours I am running and yet the case remains actually COOL and all the function of the unit works to this day. To improve the efficiency of the laptop cooler I have pried off the top cover of the cooler. It has a big fan and that is directly sitting over the case and creating a convection airflow throughout the unit.

[@tony359]

Well done, Onkyo should have implemented that!!

[@TheShornak]

I had an Onkyo receiver that I bought back in 2001. I don't remember the number on it but it was a 6.1 receiver and I used it when I got a center rear speaker. The unit works so well I was amazed at it's performance. I like it much better than the Sony unit I father had back than. Anyway one thing it had was a fan mounted to the back of the unit. And you can hear the fan briefly when there was lound sounds like explosions. I cut a hole in the entertainment console right at the spot fan. My Onkyo never really got hot like you discribed this unit here.

[@stevet7487]

Good idea. These receivers fail however, because of the chips becoming unseated due to heat. While your receiver may become hot, it will not fail like these units because it doesn't have HDMI inputs, which weren't used until 2004. I have 3 Onkyo receivers from the 1990s that still work great.

[@simontay4851]

Yes, i absolutely agree. Those TO-92 transistors are far too hot. 85C at idle with the cover off is madness. They'll probably reach 100C with the cover on. If this was mine, i would replace them with BD139's/BD140's, mount them on the heatsink and run short wires from the legs to the holes where the original ones were. Also mount some heatsinks on the ICs on the digital board. The solder balls on the large BGAs will eventually crack with them running so hot. You should check the voltages on the transformer outputs. I wondering whether they're higher than they should be. What is your mains voltage. It is about 248V where i live. The transformer is probably designed for EU 230VAC.

[@tony359]

UK is 240V but the unit says 220-240V. It's not the first time I see regulators set to generate 15V from 40V - with no heatsinks of course. What you say is sound but I'd expect to see this done at the design stage, not at home. It was a $2000 receiver!! Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@1niloc]

Thanks for a great analysis. I'm also no expert but agree fully with your opinion. I'd however appreciate a comment/explanation from Onkyo

[@justinpow92]

I installed a AC Infinity aircom on top of mine, its a blower style fan so the heat goes out the back of the cabinet. They make all sorts of models that can direct air front, back or top depending on your cabinet configuration, you can even set the temperature and fan speeds for each. They are really good, you should check them out if heat is an issue on your receiver, they are also very quiet. I've got mine powered off the rear power plug on the receiver so it turns on only when the receiver is on.

[@tony359]

that's a cool device for sure! Really nice, thanks for that!

[@fixtillbroke]

I decided my Onkyo was unreasonabluy noisy with the fan I installed just where you placed yours, but I had a bracket to mount inside the cabinet and a rear panel mounted variable speed control to manage the noise/heat output. After setting it all up and trying to navigate the menu, I realized I was spending more time tweaking and reading than just plain listening. I sold it, and brought back my reliable Denon AVR 1500, which is no championship winner, but a diligent worker, with respect for the program being played.

[@tony359]

maybe not a bad idea!! :)

[@oldblokeh]

I think they misunderstood the spelling -- it's supposed to be a home theater, not a home heater.

[@tony359]

Ahahah amazing! That’s it!

[@lucasn0tch]

Comes in handy during winter time. Especially with energy prices these days.

[@tony359]

Well, the Onkyo uses electricity to heat up - if it didn't, then everybody should have an Onkyo! LOL

[@dragdrag1507]

Hahha.. I was searching info's about this and found this... it gets very hot and during the winter is fine😂😂😂

[@soosaisteven3984]

I am absolutely agree with your inference. The onkyo and many other barabds of home theater receivers are built with planned obsolescence in mind. We shall fight back these mindless design. Systems are good, but not designed to last for decades. Lasting a full 10 years is already a miracle for these units.

[@martin_soerensen]

Thanks you for a very insightful video. I have a Marantz AV receiver which is basically the same as Onkyo. I also always thought that it got surprisingly hot even when just sitting idle. It is idling at ~100W. It has an ECO mode though so when the volume is set below -40dB, a relay clicks and the power consumption drops a bit, but not by much. I just expected the heat must have mainly been coming from the transistors in the output stage and the power supply and since they are on big heat sinks I thought it would be fine, but I had no idea it was all so scorchingly hot as you measured. Semiconductors should be able to handle 85 deg for many years, but capacitors cannot even if they are 105 deg variants. So you are now responsible for the fact that I installed a 120mm Noctua fan on top of the vent holes blowing the air upwards. 🙂 The fan is running on a low voltage and is only just audible when no sound if playing but that bit of forced air movement makes a massive difference to the temperature of the top of the chassis. Now it only feels slightly warm.

[@tony359]

ahah I love that responsibility! Yes, a small heatsink and a slow fan will make a hell of a lot of a difference - that is why I cannot accept to see those components running at 85C all the time with the case open.

[@B.Wildered]

I personally agree. I am thinking about both the chemistry of materials breaking down and the physics thermal expansion and contraction, which in turn causes work hardening of metals and loss of electrical connection along delicate pathways.

[@Franco4590]

Yes I agree. Thank you. Overheats in 20 min. and the fan hasn't turned on. Worked great for several years. Worn parts from the heat I guess.

[@tony359]

Reminds me the ARCAM amplifier where fans were literally in place ONLY to prevent the unit from catching fire :)

[@shanewhitton295]

I definitely agree after I purchased an Integra that overheated under warranty. I sent it 2000km for repair. After it was returned it lasted 2 months. I put it away in Disgust. 2years later I pulled it out , a friend went over the hole amp replacing Capacitors and transistors that were damaged. This was all on one channel. I was very excited to start the same and went well for 3 days and then blew the other channel. This is all related to heat. Shame onkyo

[@tony359]

Wow, that is not great. I can imagine that "fans" would be frown upon on Hi-Fi reviews but just overheat everything cannot be the only alternative! Thanks for watching!

[@Voyager_2]

I use Onkyo's for almost 18 years now. My NR5007 had to be send back 3 times because the famous video dsp getting lose. I ended up with a 3009 and it did not seem to have those problems but I always used it with a usb powered fan. I don't have a home cinema anymore but still use 3 Onkyo's on a daily basis. One is in a cabinet were I made a fan in the back, the other two run with a fan on top. They work without problems for years now. But yes it is a real problem. Finding a 3007 in the bin... just wow its a really good sounding amp.

[@tony359]

The fact that your 3009 runs fine with "just a fan" tells us how easy it would be for the manufacturer to mitigate the problem altogether! Thanks for watching!

[@cfldriven]

My Onkyo NR-6050 gets cranked all the time and while it gets warm the internal fan and vents keep it from over heating. My 1982 Onkyo which I sold a few years ago also got warm but it passive vents kept from overheating.

[@HardDanceism]

Thank god, I thought I was going crazy with my sr606. Great system but my god it’s a mini space heater. I’ve been maintaining it religiously since I got it in “08, but lately no amount of maintenance keeps it cool after a while. What worries me is the subwoofer and front towers along with the receiver heat uo like crazy after extensive use and I can’t for the life of me find the cause.

[@tony359]

the speakers should not heat? My active speakers do heat up because they have an amplifier inside but speakers "per se" should really not heat up. The Subwoofer is going to be active so that is normal I guess.

[@mbwatson1000]

I completely agree with your analysis of this unit. I can imagine that the unit was discarded because the digital electronics became unstable after some hours of continuous use. It seems the designers completely ignored any thermal design considerations. For me, the solution is to be found in adequately specified components, with proper heatsinking and also good airflow. I dislike the notion of having fans associated with my audio equipment as they can easily disturb my listening experience during quiet passages. All that should be necessary is paying attention to the placement of sufficient holes in the chassis to allow cool air intake at the bottom of the case, as well as vents at the top. Indeed, the case itself should be incorporated in the heatsinking arrangement.

[@tony359]

The unit was not being thrown away because it was faulty. It was just not needed anymore. This is how Onkyo design them. On the fan, a 120mm low speed fan is honestly inaudible even in a dead silent room! But people would immediately frown upon a fan-assisted design. And yes, as you say fanless options were many but were ignored! Thanks for watching!

[@Carlos-nr3rt]

I have a DTR-30.6 and just put three 80mm computer fans on the bottom blowing air into the unit. Powered by separate 12V power supply. My receiver is in a cupboard in another room so noise is not a problem. Now runs cold like its not even turned on.

[@strosca]

Hey Tony, I agree with you. I have a Technics amp and I’ve been wondering why it’s getting so hot even without a load.. I even thought there was an internal fault creating all the heat so I was not comfortable turning or even leaving it on for longer periods of time. Since I found out about this channel, I wanted to built my own “tinkering shop” to look into systems just like this to understand more about them. I would be very interested in a tour of your shop with all the equipment you are using! Greetings from your german neighbour 👋🏻

[@tony359]

Guten tag! I never thought of a tour of my shop, mainly because I am a messy guy (you can see that on my videos!) and it would probably take me days to make the shop presentable! :) But it's a good idea, thank you! And thanks for watching and commenting!

[@josephlalock8378]

setting the idle current of an amp is pretty easy. get the service manual and a dmm w/ minigrabbers and have at it.

[@El_IrregularDX]

6:46 im not an amplifier expert and even i can tell, ITS MADNESS. i genuinely cant comprehend why onkyo couldn't add more heatsinks on their machines, considering their price

[@tony359]

I'm glad you agree with me! They're not cheap indeed. Thanks for watching!

[@Totto70770]

You can reduce fan noise a lot with a fan spacer. You can 3d print, or get them from Noctua. The fan blades are very close to the vented panel which causes a lot of turbulence and noise. Spacing the fans from the panel will reduce the noise and allow you to run the fan faster for better cooling. I'd try low profile fans mounted on the inside of the unit, blowing directly onto the hot components. That is if the internal space allows for it.

[@tony359]

Yes you are correct. I often end up spacing the fan to do exactly what you say. On my old onkyo I put the fan inside - I prefer blowing UP as hot air is naturally moving up so that should help moving more air. On my current onkyo there is no space and I have no space on top so it's sitting sideways, taking away the hot air which build up in the cabinet. But the heatsink is critical, it would reduce the IC temp by 20C as a minimum. Thanks for watching!

[@hahnsolo7241]

The Onkyo Receivers are actually very good, i use my old one since 20 years and no problems, but the newer ones have mostly all this temperature issue, where the HDMI board produce the no sound isue, that problem had onkyo to solve at its own cost for the consumer, but he didn't and the consumer screw up....not a good marketing for them !

[@tony359]

I'll make a video at some point about that HDMI issue. It wasn't Onkyo's fault to be fair. It was Texas Instruments', the manufacturer of that chip. Onkyo extended the warranty a little bit and that was it. LOTS of those old onkyos are in the landfill now.

[@xav500011]

Overheating stereo receiver is a problem across many brands. I had to replace a exhaust fan on my Technics SA-DA10 receiver that did not turn on at all. I used a PC 80mm fan and had it at a lower voltage so it was totally quiet and on all the time. Even a fan at a low rpm and always on fan can make all the difference.

[@tony359]

Absolutely, it doesn't have to spin fast at all (unless the amp is pushed really hard I guess). Just a little forced ventilation changes the scenario massively. Thanks for watching!

[@sanjeevmoudgil699]

I hv two onkyos they remain warmer than other brands even in standby mode. I also use pc cabinet fan on top of ventilation holes running with 9v adapter for low noise. One of my friend had some Onkyo with thx certification which was his fav winter amplifier 😅

[@tony359]

ahah indeed, space heaters :)

[@Bill-dw2bw]

thank you it's got it working again, i only had a hairdryer to heat the chip but it seems to have worked ok 😊

[@tony359]

If you're referring to the HDMI DSP IC, I'm afraid it won't last for long... I hope I'm mistaken though!

[@jamesmoore8573]

It lasted 2 weeks no sound on my txt nr708

[@randomlyselecteduser]

I use a $15USD (in 2011) laptop cooler with a 280mm fan that plugs into the USB port. It's completely inaudible from more than about one foot away. My Onkyo has been running strong since 2014.

[@tony359]

Recently I was pointed to a dedicated solution for AVR receivers :) It's something you place on top and looks cool! But your idea also works great of course!

[@Poppinwheeeeellllllieeeeez]

I always run a variable speed large usb powered CPU fan via the switched courtesy outlet sucking out the top of the unit. My yamaha Rxv-1500 operates like new.

[@tony359]

So the fan on top seems to be a widespread solution!

[@SupersonicBombastic]

I have a TX-SR875 which has worked fine for a long time but it recently started turning itself off after a couple of hours of use. I felt the top of the receiver and it was extremely hot so I assumed overheating was the culprit. Looks like I'm going to have to get a cooling fan. I don't know how Onkyo's differ from other manufactures but I've never had overheating problems with the Yamaha or Denon receivers that I've owned. If they have cooling fans then I've never heard them.

[@tony359]

I've always had Onkyo so I cannot say to be honest!

[@CheezMonsterCrazy]

I recently had a much newer Onkyo receiver overheat and become inoperable while in standby mode. Considering that the unit cannot be fully turned off while plugged in, it generated excessive heat while in the manufacturer's intended "off" state.

[@tony359]

oh wow! Was it faulty though? None of the Onkyo's I've had generated heat when in standby mode. Still crazy though!

[@thanhnguyen-xi8fq]

Onkyo is probably the best sounding Receiver, way better than Denon or Pioneer...One of the reason is that Onkyo runs it preamp (Vertical boards with the yellow pots) in class A mode, which produce a lot of heat. It is also the infamous fault which cause the Receiver to shut down after few seconds of booting up when one or two of those Preamps gave up and shorted due to overheat.

[@tony359]

interesting, thanks! Then why not adding a quiet fan and some heatsinks? A large, quiet fan would decrease the temps dramatically and nobody would be able to hear it!

[@thanhnguyen-xi8fq]

@@tony359 New Onkyo model does have the top fan to cool the preamps. But still need a mod because the temp sensor which controls the fan is attached to the heatsink of the power amp, which only around 30-39 degrees, so the fan is not turned on at all. I bypass it by jumped the 14V directly to the fan connector.

[@tony359]

reminds me the ARCAM I repaired on this channel ages ago. The fan was set to run when the heatsink was at 100C. Yes, 100C! The truth is that if you sell an HiFi thing with a constantly-running fan inside, people would frown upon it.

[@torbjornhalvarsson9496]

Completely agree with you! This isn't a good design. Engineers could use a slow-running, quiet fan to help with cooling, creating a much more reliable unit! Even a design with properly added ventilation holes in the chassis would help a lot! We own an Integra 40.3 receiver from ~2012, which means it's also from the Onkyo family. Although it's positioned in an open bookshelf it gets unacceptably hot on the top lid, even when not playing loud at all. I'm using a 14 cm fan on the top lid to cool the unit, just as you show in the video. The HDMI board was replaced on goodwill by our reseller a few years ago, which in itself hints that there have been reliability issues with these units.

[@tony359]

The HDMI board has a known defective IC, it's manufactured by TI and it's the DSP of the unit. Sad story, this very Onkyo has it too and failed after shooting this video. It was recalled by TI themselves and replaced with a newer revision. Many people blame the heat but I don't think that's the root issue. I suspect Onkyo engineers know the heat problem very well and it was the Marketing/Management department to impose that design for a number of reasons. In the Hi-Fi world the presence of a fan would be frown upon immediately, even though whisper quiet. However, as you say, a better passive heat management (a couple of passive heatsinks?) could have been added to the design and that's inexcusable indeed! Thanks for your comment!

[@torbjornhalvarsson9496]

@@tony359 Thanks for comment. To me it still looks like heat and lack of cooling is the main issue. It seems like the soldering if the Texas Instruments DSP chip will deteroriate due to the excess heat. There are numerous videos from people who have succeeded to "re-solder" / reball the chip and this has worked! Using a heat gun or oven "baking" of the whole HDMI board seems to work. Fully agree with you about the last part, about marekting/sales and management imposing certain designs. Here are two videos about re-soldering the DSP chip: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q6iWoWBspLBmfK8 kzbin.info/www/bejne/iqPIioBrrr2cldU

[@tony359]

I've re-flowed and re-balled it too before. It works for a little while then it stops again. I'm afraid the issue is not with the soldering - at least most of the times. I guess the excessive hear does not help though. I'll make a video on this subject, the DSP is an ARM CPU and I've managed to access the terminal prompt. I can see it booting up! :)

[@rebmaxdigilabs2161]

Absolutely right... I have an onkyo txsr 506, which i overheating when even not playing anything.. Even my technics su-v3 dosent produce this much heat.. When in full throttle.. And i found out that, no another device must be placed on top of an onkyo... Like a rack system... The designers behind it are madmen.... I have seen so much dead onkyos in our place.. Replying from india..

[@tony359]

The only thing you can rest on top of an Onkyo is a Frying pan ;) Thanks for watching!

[@lobeliabaggins8782]

I'd suspect planned aging. In my case two Onkyo's same issue. DSP chip. One turned right one month before end of warranty other broke just month after end if warranty. Went with Denon and it's 4th year no issues.

[@tony359]

The DSP chip is an interesting fault. It was a TI issue, the manufacturer of that IC. I have two Onkyo myself with this very issue and this very 3007 failed after the video because of that. I am planning of releasing a video about that, just to share what I found. It's unfortunately "unfixable" as there is no reliable source of spares. Did you know that that DSP chip is actually an ARM CPU running Linux? I've managed to tap into the serial port and I can see it booting :)

[@dublegi-hr8kq]

Great video. You should see a Harman Kardon PM665 (and I suspect others) run transistors at 100 deg C at idle. And this is small signal transistors not the power outputs (those are running at about 75 deg C). And no, it's not just one outlier. And no, they are not class A. I have two of them and they're both the same. Not sure why they are pushed so hard, but the traces delaminate from the heat and PCBs are scorched. Unless the solder joints crack and go cold, that is. Which is what these amps are notorious for and there are many videos that bear testimony to that. Heatsinks (where they are used) are also way undersized and chintzy. Would be interesting if you come across one to see what you think could be done. I have made custom heatsinks for mine and that brought temperatures down a tad, but they're still above 60 deg C. I am seriously considering redesigning the PCBs.

[@tony359]

what a shame. I tend to have gear from the "pro" world at home. Those CANNOT be badly designed - ok, you have good and bad but the "bad" in the pro world is never that bad! :)

[@leeBoB4257]

Hi what i did was unplug the fan from it's connection and plug it into the other 12v connection and the fan runs completely and keeps the unit cool. ❤

[@sokoloft3]

I have a TX-DS494. My computer sits right on top of it. I installed a case fan with a cable that runs out into my PC so it gets some sort of heat out. Its facing down over the transformer. Since that is right below my desktops psu. No issues with mine aside from the temperature and the A/B relay getting oxidized. Sometimes a channel would drop out. Press A/B select a couple times and it comes back.

[@tony359]

Good idea to use the computer fan! Thanks for watching!

[@brad20105]

Ive owned i think 5 onkyo av amplifiers now and never had a faulty one or one thats been tampered with and they have all ran hot but ive never had an issue with them. I always leave a lot of space around the amplifier to allow the heat to dissipate

[@tony359]

Your Onkyo's were lucky to have such a good owner, giving them so much space around! :) Thanks for watching!

[@brad20105]

Thank you I do try I currently have the txnr906 notorious for it but it hasn't had any issues so far but I did buy it from someone senior who cared to keep the box, manuals, setup mic and remote..I could see he was someone who also cared for his belongings, I look for these signs when buying.

[@siebetenhave6894]

you should look up thermo grizzly, they sell small heat sinks which dont need screws to stick to surface. i have a onkyo tx-8211 with 2 x 80w speakers which is the max it should take, it gets really hot sometimes. i added some copper heatsinks to some chips that got to almost 90C and added 2 arctic p12 pwm pst with a little power supply to the back sockets so it turns on when i turn the amp on. cant hear it now and i can feel it blow out some warm air if i play loud.

[@thomasjosephlamarque2927]

Have you written to them? I know we have components that are designed to run warm in the railway to expel moisture, but this is a device designed to be used in a home. So really silly as passive cooling is not expensive.

[@tony359]

Maybe the 3007 is designed to work outdoor :) Thanks for watching!

[@MikeSmith-rh5gc]

Had the Onkyo 919 back in the nineties, and I used to fry eggs on it

[@tony359]

If you don't pay attention you can even burn them!

[@SanelKeys]

Perhaps, they could have it rearrange inside, to provide better natural cooling. For example, that position of heatsink in the middle of unit splits unit, reducing available space for components to dissipate power, hence faster rise of air temperature inside of the unit.

[@tony359]

Yes, many options available indeed! Thanks for watching!

[@lezbriddon]

I just bought a nr609, no sound all channels fault, like an idiot i jumped at it for $25 thinking power supply or fuse, after finding that wasnt it /then/ i googled and found its a dsp chip death so its now a boat anchor, but what i did find when i pointed the thermal camera at it was the same as yours, the preamp boards before the main output stages are sat at like 40c in a 20c room with it turned off!. I can fully understand keeping the processor's running but not the amp circuitry! at least this model has an internal fan

[@tony359]

Yes it’s pretty bad! The one I showed you in the video also failed for the same DSP chip and apparently there is no real solution. As you say, I now have this very heavy paperweight full of working components sitting on my floor but it’s unusable because of ONE chip. So frustrating.

[@KorAllRBare]

I Have a top of the line TX-NR616 7.2 that I purchased around 12 years ago , Still have it laying around as I cant get my hands on a replacement fan that failed within three years, followed no doubt with some IC chips after the fan had failed without me knowing about it, I now have a Yamaha with two extra channels and more features which BTW only gets warm after using it for over 5 hours of high level listening, yeah I don't like ONKYO any mo, as I do remember even before the fan failed and just after warranty had ran out I had to reflow one of it's BGA chips to get it working again

[@tony359]

I assume it's the "HDMI" BGA chip. It's a known fault, the manufacturer (Texas Instruments) recalled all of them and issued a fixed version. "Reflowing" is not fixing it unfortunately, it's just a side effect of the heat, it should fail again shortly afterwards I'm afraid. Unsurprisingly, even this very unit I showed on video had that fault, I just didn't realise when I recorded the video as it would come up online after 5 minutes when the IC was warmed up! Those fans should be standard, if you cannot find the exact one, you should be able to find a similar one for airflow and noise. Thanks for watching!

[@KorAllRBare]

@@tony359 yup.. no doubt that one too may be kaput Err-fried..

[@MrChrisRP]

Hey Tony. You asked if we agreed with you and I don't so much. Silicone can get to crazy temps and it doesn't care. At worst, as I am sure you are learned of too, is that cold solder joints will appear on the power parts, i.e. regulation and power amplification devices. But if the company did its soldering well to any degree, this will not be an issue, either. On a very cheap unit, I can see the value in thinking what to do to make it better and things of this nature. On a nice unit like this: A professional team did what they can do to make something as nice as it is. In items of this particular breed and nature, it is ok imho of course, to lend a little bit more trust in the results than compared to say your typical planned obsolence resulting product. All in all - is it "good" to keep temps down if you can? Sure - you didn't learn your electronics in some other universe. Always - but the unit made it that far, so far. They did something right. More power to you, though and rock on. Mount that fan internally. The cable can go right though a top vent slit. Use something temporary and not permament like holes if you really must, according to your wishes. More power to ya and enjoy, regardless!

[@tony359]

Hi - thanks for your feedback. Yes, properly designed electronics can withstand those temperatures but I am not sure the Onkyo qualifies as such :) I'm not a designer but I suspect that adding ventilation is much, much cheaper than "properly design and manufacture" a unit. BTW: only after the video I realised that that Onkyo was actually faulty! I'll make another video at some point.

[@micb3rd]

Well not sure why people are bashing Onkyo when in 2012 they started fitting cooling fans to extract heat. They have had active cooling for 14 years. For example TX NR616 and onward.

[@tony359]

This one has fans too. They turn on when the unit is about to catch fire :) But yes, the Hi-Fi community doesn't like fans.

[@micb3rd]

@@tony359 The fans are different in the NR 616, its a large 120mm fan right at the top not like the little ones ineffective ones in the side. If people are worried about sound of fans you can use some high quality Noctua fans on top and run them at a low speed RPM, so lots of cooling and very quiet to the ear. Noctua even recently recently released NV-MPG1-12 rubber anti-vibration gasket so you can place a fan on top of an AV receiver or amplifier and it is more effective as it is spaced away plus it is quiet. :-)

[@tony359]

Oh you don't need to convince me about having a very quiet fan on an amplifier or a projector. But as you mentioned those would be frown upon by the specialised media and the users so manufacturers are forced to overheat their products. That's why I tend to have Pro gear at home :)

[@micb3rd]

@@tony359 Well the video and comments come across to a new person to audio that Onkyo make bad products that are not cooled which is not true and can damage the brand image. I agree with you products should be designed to have some extra heat tolerance if passive or actively cooled. Just look at had the graphics card industry, times where hotpots hit 105c this is very bad. 85c much better place to be.

[@tony359]

I mildly disagree with you on this. 85C on transistors with the case open cannot be acceptable.

[@Ironclad17]

Ah the late 00s, more audio channels then anyone had room for speakers.

[@tony359]

"Immersive audio" anyone? ;) Thanks for watching!

[@82levy5]

Onkyo is the best in planned obsolescence.

[@tony359]

unfortunately...

[@tomwaller6893]

check the standing bias current to your output stages!

[@tony359]

I did and it's as per manufacturer's specs! Thanks for watching!

[@Hasan4281]

Mine is onkyo tx-nr818 bought it second hand 2 years ago, inside shelf now. No heating or anything. I run it for 2 hours sometimes to listen to music, and it's little warm up little. Maybe it have 2 big fans a sides probably. Don't know.

[@Homer19521]

Would have been nice to plug the unit into a KillAWatt power monitor or the like to see what was the power consumption at idle. I have seen reports that Onkyo's run hot just like all Duracell (Duraleaks) batteries leak.

[@tony359]

I read that - I haven't used this Onkyo a lot but I don't think it does much when in stand-by! It'd be cool to check though!

[@mylivingsky]

My solution: a laptop fan cooling pad lying on top blowing air downward powered thru the built-in power outlet from behind the unit. Whenever the Onkyo unit is powered up, the cooling fan turns on as well. No more overheat.

[@tony359]

Great solution!

[@zs1dfr]

I wouldn't blow air downward. You might "trap" a layer of hot air trying to rise (by convection) in the hot area. Turn the laptop fan structure over and rather suck the hot air up and out of the cabinet ....

[@mylivingsky]

@@zs1dfroh u r right, that is what I initially did by the same logic. But after a week, I can feel the unit still radiating warm. Then I turn the fan upside down. The difference is significant. And it stayed that way ever since.

[@kenabi]

onkyo is effectively a dead brand as of 2022, and was going downhill as early as 2018. it still technically exists, but its not really the a/v powerhouse company it used to be. to the point its not even on the tokyo stock exchange, and PAC (voxx/audiovox) and Sharp bought out the assets (75/25, respectively), which include pioneer, integra and onkyo. we'll see if PAC bothers doing anything with the brand or if they let it die off. at some point, yes, people noticed they weren't building them as well as the classic models, and shifted to products that actually lasted for the price they were paying. kind of a pity, they used to have some really good gear.

[@tony359]

A pity indeed - even though this is from 2009 :) Imagine after 2018 when they went downhill! Thanks for commenting!

[@lucasn0tch]

A pity indeed. I heard that their digital music distribution store in Japan is being transferred to Qobuz, who will start operations in Japan soon.

[@tomekrv942]

Planned product obsolescence (I'm not sure if that's what it's called in English) this is everywhere. No one cares if the product works for many years. It is suposed to work until the warranty expires and then the customer has to buy a new one. I am sure thet on the package of this equipment was some logo how ecological it is.

[@tony359]

Ah for sure. They’re so kind to make the box using recycled cardboard 🙂

[@jessedunn3766]

Never had any overheating even in a semi-confined space. What does bother me is the insessant relay clicking.

[@tony359]

Those are LOUD, aren't they? :D

[@rolandrohde]

The current gen Onkyo AVRs like the RZ70 don't get hot because they have a fan running constantly. But again...cost saving and corner cutting has happened and that fan that is running all the time is quite audible. I guess paying 1-2$ more for a quiet fan was out of the question?🤷‍♂️

[@tony359]

ahah silly Onkyo. I do feel that a fan running at very low speed - just to help convection - would be plenty. The fan could speed up when things get hotter - at that point noise is less of a concern. Hotter = louder so a fan in the background won't change things. Sometimes it's so obvious where the Marketing department takes over from the engineering department, isn't it? :)

[@BeefyMon]

Is there anything one needs to know specifically about adding heat sinks to the various DSP chips (and other hot-running chips)? I don’t even know where to start regarding purchasing them… is the adhesive reliable, or can it just end up insulating the chip making it run hotter? How about the sizing… the last thing I’d want to do is obstruct what little convection there is, by installing heat sinks. Some practical advice in regard to the Onkyo HDMI boards would be appreciated!

[@tony359]

Proper adhesive heatsinks should be heat-conductive. As long as the heatsink does not overspill the IC - potentially touching some other components - you should be fine. Bear in mind that I never trust that adhesive so if the unit gets moved, I'd make sure they don't detach and end up where they shouldn't go! Good luck!

[@canacuner4141]

It has the feel of having to go to the service as soon as possible.

[@richardaston6361]

I have one it does run hot

[@aadd3538]

I modded my 607. Slightly Higher voltage caps and 3 inch fan on low. With small psu running from main 240 Used to drop hdmi. The onkyo is by far better sound quality than yamaha

[@tony359]

There are many caps in those things! That's a big mod! Glad it works well! :)

[@general23cmp]

Great video

[@tony359]

Thank you!

[@ted-b]

Nice one Tony, designed to fail. My Denon AVR is just the same, except, it has no internal fans at all.

[@tony359]

😮 so it can be worse? 😂

[@ted-b]

@@tony359 Yes! Like yourself, I fitted a fan on the lid, a huge 230mm one powered by the USB, so only 5v and is inaudible.

[@rikopriantosa]

I have an Onkyo tx nr905, but now the HDMI part is damaged, and it only makes sound and doesn't display an image, maybe the HDMI part is too hot

[@tony359]

If you have sound then it's not the "DSP plague" issue. Is the sound coming through HDMI? That would tell you that the main HDMI IC is working and just the output is not working. You can try resetting the onkyo and maybe use a composite/Svideo/Component output to confirm?

[@nikoss450]

1000% agree, Greece 🇬🇷

[@josejeswin6936]

I can't imagine Onkyo being unable to afford some stick-on heatsinks......if i ever get my hands on one, I would add a heatsink to every overheating chip.......and mount a couple of fans too.....

[@tony359]

yes that's the base treatment! Thanks for watching!

[@fronskedeboer]

I have no knowledge about the topic, so serious question: Could it be a feature? For example, being able to deliver power/volume instantly? Is there perhaps a downside to running things low voltage?

[@tony359]

I'm not too familiar with the design of the amplifier board but I'd say no. In any case, if the design requires that amount of dissipation then the solution is a heatsink! There is no excuse for running components at 85C constantly regardless of the design! Thanks for watching!

[@JDPeters538]

I have an Onkyo TX-SR705 receiver and the audio began chirping when I tried to decode DTS audio. Like you state the heat generated is terrible and degrated the capacitors on the HDMI board. I replaced every capacitor with 105c capacitors and it fixed my audio issues. Terrible design.

[@tony359]

it's a shocking design indeed!!

Is this a class A or AB amp? If so, they actually get hotter when they have no load. I would also not generally be concerned with running components in the upper section of their specified operating temperature range. This is what they were designed for. Think about the motor control unit in a car - it also will generally be running hot, but that is also OK. This is not to say that the cooling of the Onkyo amps is not great.

[@tony359]

I doubt it’s class A but likely class AB. I’m ok with the box generating heat, but not with those components running at 85C. Lots of cheap passive solutions available to mitigate that. I’m sure the component is rated to work at those temps - even though I’d bet it’s JUST within specs! - but attaching them to the heatsink would have make them lasting so much longer. Which might not be a good thing for a manufacturer of course. Thanks for watching!

[@stricklandgarageaviation2864]

What can you do if your AVR doesn't have a trigger switch?

[@tony359]

You can use the USB port or - worst case scenario - a small PSU :)

[@stricklandgarageaviation2864]

@@tony359 Finally got all my stuff and the fan only has an AC plug. How do you use the USB port?

[@tony359]

@@stricklandgarageaviation2864 Not sure I understand about the AC plug? USB feeds 5V, you can get an adaptor online to extract it - bear in mind the USB port will only provide a limited amount of current though.

[@ivanschouten9382]

Just bought a Integra dtr 8.9 have these the same problem?

[@tony359]

I don't know to be honest

[@KarmaElectronics.]

at one time thay bent a aluminum tab to over them keep em cool.

[@tony359]

Anything that works would be good for me! Alluminium is expensive after all! Thanks for watching!

[@SpikeoutBattleStreet]

Maybe those IC chips are designed to work at this temperature who knows?

[@tony359]

That's what the marketing department would tell you! Yes, ICs can withstand those temps but there is really no need and clearly running something at those temps for years, won't be good for anything including surrounding components and PCBs.

[@SpikeoutBattleStreet]

@tony359 Some high-end audio equipment manufacturers suggest half an hour or even hours for their equipment to warm up before reaching optimal condition. I just think there must be reason onkyo doesn't put a fan there when they put fans elsewhere.

[@tony359]

@@SpikeoutBattleStreet That's why I don't have "high end equipment" and their Marketing BS :) Yes, the reason is that you buy another one at some point!

[@shahnawajmalik7866]

Sir I have onkyo receiver stv525, but master volume is damaged. Sir I purchase master volume, please suggest me how to purchase this part? Sir I am from India Please reply me!

[@tony359]

I'm sorry, I do not know where you can source it. Good luck with the repair!

[@robertdibenerdini7862]

You are correct even in 2009, its 2024...my TX NR 717 went boom...ZERO sound from my THX system.....all sound from my Onkyo Tx NR717 QUIT.....its a common problem for the DTS Chip to stop working...found out the POOR soldering used to hold that chip fail; got to re heat this chip to 300* for 60 sec with flux......hoping the solder melts and re attach this Texas Inst DTS chip....maybe i will recover...SOUND from the HDMI Board.....for my system.....Onkyo offers alot but POOR Box design...and workmanship......never again...just bought a Pioneer VSX LX305 9.2 Receiver ....rank 91...this will replace my disappointment in ONKYO....

[@tony359]

the DSP IC (the one with DTS written on it) is an ARM processor. Unfortunately Texas Instrument made some bad revisions and a fixed one was issues to Onkyo and other manufacturers to fix their receivers. Apparently it's not the solder balls. Heat will temporarily fix the issue - I have direct experience with that, it worked for a month and then stopped again :( Feel free to try that of course. This very Onkyo has failed already for that reason, I'll make a video at some point! Thanks for watching!

[@robertdibenerdini7862]

@@tony359 what if when trying with flux/heat...but also add a Heatsink on top.....has seen that done on YTube....will keep you inform

[@tony359]

I always add a heatsink on that IC - but the fault seems to be unrelated unfortunately. You can find the Texas Instruments recall bulletin online explaining which revisions are bad.

[@Spartan117JMC]

May iask if you have a link to that? I just bought a barely used nr727 and i wanna keep it in good shape​@@tony359

[@tony359]

A link to the heatsink? I don’t and every receiver is different. You’ll have to measure the size of the IC and buy an appropriate one with adhesive glue or pad. Make sure it’s not too big and shorts the surrounding components!

[@DjMarik78]

That is really bad heat management, and it is indeed unacceptable! Designing and building audio amplifiers from scratch is what i do, so i know what i am talking about! Those IC's should have had heatsinks on them even if it would have increased the BOM, it is unacceptable to bake them in that way! Those transistors could have had some small heatsinks on them, or at least a better PSF chosen for them. I do not accept a transistor working on more than 50, maybe 60* worst case ( TC ), anything higher gets the proper heatsinking. It is the only way to ensure reliability! PS: Even an underpowered fan, right down to the point it wouldn't have made any significant noise, would still have assured a much better ventilation for the other side, than nothing at all!

[@tony359]

I'm glad you agree with me from your expert point of view! Yes, lots and lots of options to avoid that madness but... I agree on 50/60 being the worst case scenario. We both know a small, cheap, simple heatsink on those components would have probably achieved that but... Thanks for watching!

[@CasualInventor]

What thermal camera do you use? Looks pretty good. Great vid.

[@tony359]

It's a Seek Thermal compact PRO - I think there are better options nowadays but when I bought it it was quite good as it had a reasonable resolution. It plugs to my mobile. Thanks for watching!

[@brettcarroll8623]

My reciever is htr540

[@akmt123]

Strange, zero to 50 Vol. is NIL, Sound starts at 55. Don't think this is Normal?

[@tony359]

I am not sure what you mean, are you able to elaborate further?

[@akmt123]

@@tony359 Just bought this and NO sound when I crank the Volume from 0 to 49....Sound plays 50 onwards.... maybe, wrongly calibrated?

[@tony359]

Really not sure but as long as you have sound I wouldn't worry too much! Give the unit a reset, maybe that helps!

[@akmt123]

@@tony359 Spoke to Help desk...they say the Polk Audio RTi A7 needs 30 to 300W and the Onkyo is giving only 45W RMS per channel!!! Maybe, he is correct. My vintage 1975 Pioneer Stereo Receiver SX-535 at 25W per channel has no such problems but then again its 2 Speakers are rated at only Maximum input power of 70W.

[@tony359]

What Onkyo are we talking about here? Sound is not a precise science. You can drive a 300W speaker with a 45W amplifier, you just won't be able to use the full power of the speaker. The amplifier will limit before the speaker is maxed out. I wouldn't be so concerned. If/when you hear distortion, turn it down a bit :) Also I'm confident both Polk Audio and Onkyo over stated the max capacity of their products so just enjoy the music! :)

[@jamescollins6085]

I think Onkyo products are seen by many as poorly designed with high premature failure rates. They have destroyed their reputation to the extent that you don't really even see their products on sale any longer. It's a shame, because they use the same quality components as the other leading brands, and perform similarly, too.

[@tony359]

Well I think the reason is that Onkyo is no more! :) They went bankrupt in 2022!

[@brettcarroll8623]

My Onkyo is pretty hot to touch.is that normal

[@tony359]

it probably is unfortunately. I cannot be sure though.

[@B.Ruslan1978]

I'm using a big fun on cover when I want to do disco.😂

[@tony359]

That helps for sure!

[@B.Ruslan1978]

@@tony359 I have a lot of stereo equipment I'm fucking old Audiophile person. I have 17 amplifiers and 24 pairs of the speakers. Trust I know what that POWER is. My best amplifier is Pioneer VSA-AX 10Ai

[@wimwiddershins]

It's a... feature! Bonus room heating, who needs an open fire?

[@tony359]

If you push it hard enough it might turn into a fire too :)

[@mojoblues66]

Is it running very hot because it's a Class A amp?

[@tony359]

I doubt it’s class A, likely class AB. Even then, I’m not complaining by the overall heat but the temperature they run those transistors which have no heatsink. Thanks for watching!

[@mojoblues66]

@@tony359 Depends on how those components are rated. Did you look up the datasheets?

[@tony359]

I haven’t but I wouldn’t run a transistor at 85C (more likely 100C when it’s closed and running) regardless of what the data sheet says 🙂

[@PurpleDreki]

Yes, they are notorious for being hot. People stuff them into poorly ventilated spaces, and they overheat.

[@tony359]

I can only imagine what temps those components run when crammed in a crowded cupboard...

[@DanielWelsh-vz9ls]

Melt. Down 😢

[@DhakaMusicOmar]

they do it intentionally to dry the the pcb solder joints and lead to breakdown and you know how expensive and difficult it is to work on these machines

[@tony359]

Ah yes, ease of servicing is not their strength 🙂

[@Uraim]

okay, so i can explain something as an amplifier technician, so those transistors are in the voltage phase, and they absolutely shouldnt be that hot, not even 50C, those transistors have pretty low value resistors in series to them, and its made the way so the amplifier to fail after a few years, you can work on it by replacing the series collector and emitter resistor to a higher value and the transistor will work way cooler, you may loose a few watts from the unit, due it wont be that gain boosted but it wont be end of the world, you gonna still have arround 200-220watts/channel max. At the logic board, the only thing you can do is to get smaller sized heatshinks and glue it on them with a specialized thermal grease that also have adhesive in it. Btw this amplifier unit is just bad in this heat way, other 90's amplifiers that have the Texas instruments or any other DSP in them, they all run hot, and they dont have any heatshinks, due they were planned to be an unrepairable mess. 60's 70's and some early 80's amplifiers are made so well, and they are so realible, you may just need to service it twice in your lifetime, and maybe do a simple recap job every 15-20years, but these units go bad all the time.

[@tony359]

You’re spot on. I made a video to explain the DSP mess on this very Onkyo. It’s so sad to see such planned obsolescence. I’ve always had a fan on top of my onkyo - they were all pre-amp only but still running silly hot

[@Uraim]

@@tony359 Yes, the way you can make the signal transistor run cooler, is the you increase the value of the colector and emitter resistor. I was been fixing my Pioneer SA7800, bias were thrown off, so it was conducting way too much even on the lowest settings, and with the new transistors, the way it was made that 1k resistor to a 50mA transistor but, the new transistors got pretty hot (about 70C), This is the part of the nsa amplfiier where it sets the quiescent current, and i opted for 2.2k resistors, and on the collector resistor from 100ohms to 220ohms, and the transistor no longer getting hot, and it basicly did the same job with less current, so the gain were little bit lower, but with the adjustements, i was able to adjust it. Its just goes to 40-45C, which is ok! If i would say that i put on the lid of the amplifier, it wouldn't exceed 50C. Im not exactly sure why onkyo's run that hot, but i guess those resistance were not calculated well by the technicians who planned the amplifiers, they might be planned its amplifiers to be obsolete soon, so the opted for lower value resistors, so if the buyers amplifier go bad in a few years, they would go back to the shop and to buy a newer onkyo reciever. At least that i noticed that, i was also fixing some other amplifiers, and Onkyos use lower avarage resistances, so the transistor will get hot due to excessive current, which is the transistor rated for, but not healthy on the long run.

[@frikadasonline]

Yeah, you're right, they're made to fail. A crappy design done on purpose

[@tony359]

It's saddening though, it would take very little to improve that! Thanks for watching!

[@rodnejean9880]

Marantz is expensive but the best ,Yamaha pretty decent too

[@tony359]

I've never looked at one inside - but there must be a reason why you can only find broken Onkyo's out there :) Thanks for watching!

[@reyvgm]

I've bought two Onkyos and they both have died, I assume due to overheating.

[@tony359]

Heat and the cursed Texas Instruments "DSP" IC did not help for sure :)

[@jsimpson1116]

The name should imply quality and be made cooler and efficient.

[@a.f.1587]

Onkyos suffering from this since a decade already. Running hot, lack of proper cooling/ventilation inside the housing. Those DSP chips are prone to fail, Onkyo even had a recall for some of they amplifiers, because of that DSP board, beacause running so hot after a year, started to cause the solder joints to fail/crack. There are some workarounds here, some people managed to fix it with heating up the DSP chip, sometimes it works, mot mostly not, and even if does work, it won't last long. Overall, bad design, and i don't understand, why they didn't change something, after having so many problems with the heat... Or maybe it's a planned aging, what they build in, because they want to sell their units, and if it's reliable, you won't change it for a decade and that's not good for them. I personally avoid Onkyos, they are unreliable...

[@tony359]

in fact, this very unit has a failed DSP chip, I didn't realise during this test as it starts working after a couple of minutes. The issue is deeper, TI - the manufacturer of those ICs - recalled them. It's an internal failure. "Reballing" is the temporary fix but because the heat manages to revive the internal components, not because of the solder balls. It's like the PS3. I'm going to make a video about that as I've managed to connect to that IC which is an ARM processor running Linux, it's pretty cool! Why not solving the heat issue? I don't want to say but if you're into these things, take a look at my ARCAM repair, that's even worse! kzbin.info/www/bejne/iaO1Zn9nareUq5I

[@CXensation]

It's not over-heating. It clearly is under-cooled ...

[@tony359]

excellent point from a different point of view :) Thanks for watching!

[@ford1546]

it is not good that so many components get so hot. reliability becomes much worse as capacitors are also destroyed more quickly by a lot of heat. I don't see this as a good product when it gets so hot

[@tony359]

I agree. Yes, nearby capacitors won't like that heat indeed! Thanks for watching!

[@SianaGearz]

IDK when i see a fan in a HiFi amplifier something breaks in me, i feel it just doesn't belong. There's basically no need to pump more than 75W into home speakers. There's no need for it to have high idle consumption either. Why?

[@tony359]

I'm confident there would be suitable passive solutions as well - but a large and quiet fan running at very low RPM would do wonders IMHO.

[@justinc9991]

A complete garbage desing… this unit cost a lot at it’s time. They could just add some heatsink on the mc and dsp chips. I have managed to revive only one onkio which i am also using by replacing the dsp chip which was dead due to excessive heat. I could save more but you can’t find those dsp to buy. ALL of the dsp chips sold (most in from china) are “fake” (re-engraved, total different chip actually). I had to buy a donor board (old stock for a different model) and harvest the dsp chip… great job Onkyo!!! Very good sound CRAPPY design…

[@tony359]

I'm also looking for one of those DSPs and I also bought one from China and got burnt... :( If you find one let me know!