Top 10 Deduction Games

Tom, Sam, and Zee count down their favorite deduction games.
00:00 - Introduction
02:43 - Sam’s #10
04:19 - Tom’s #10
06:54 - Sam’s #10
08:04 - Tom’s #9
08:56 - Zee’s #9
10:11 - Sam’s #9
13:00 - Zee’s #8
13:44 - Sam’s #8
15:16 - Tom’s #8
16:28 - Zee’s #7
18:23 - Tom’s #7
19:39 - Sam’s #7
21:19 - Tom’s #6
24:23 - Sam’s #6
28:00 - Zee’s #6
29:29 - Sam’s #5
31:42 - Zee’s #5
34:02 - Tom’s #5
35:27 - Sam’s #4
37:34 - Tom’s #4
39:08 - Zee’s #4
41:06 - Tom’s #3
42:27 - Zee’s #3
45:00 - Sam’s #3
46:49 - Zee’s #2
49:12 - Sam’s #2
51:19 - Tom’s #2
55:36 - Sam’s #1
59:15 - Zee’s #1
01:00:48 - Tom’s #1
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Find more reviews and videos at www.dicetower.com

[@rmcunningham3874]

"Let's do it!" You're on, Zee. Top 10 induction games. Go! 1) Generalization 2) Statistical syllogism 3) Simple induction 4) Argument from analogy 5) Casual inference 6) Prediction 7) That's all 6 types of induction. Anything else cannot formally be considered induction. End of list. We're having fun now!

[@RossMyers89]

This was the best video in while! it look like you all had a bunch of fun making it.

[@Warrior_Whitten]

Those lists at the end are very much appreciated.

[@meeplesinc.511]

Thanks for the great video, I love deduction games and this gave me some nice inspiration for games I have to try. My favourite deduction game is definitely Alchemists.

[@DanielMinottoII]

I like how you 3 have mostly different list. It's helpful to see how different types of people might view a particular game. I tend to like heavier, less social games, and it's helpful to see the different view points so that I don't go buying games I have to take an ad out on craig's list just to find someone to play with :)

[@Tr1pleOseveN]

Yes yes and yes!!!.....u guys have no idea how long I've been waiting for this top ten and finally it's here thank u guys so much and about time.....😁👍

[@gurtana]

Holy gosh, Han Solo AND Malcolm Reynolds on the same T-shirt? Sam, that is too much win right there.

[@omerhertz]

About Watson & Holmes (Zee's 5) vs. Consulting Detective: the machanics Zee mentions (of choosing where to go and who to talk to) are actually identical to Consulting Detective's mechanics (yes, there's a story element but it's basically predicated on the players visiting different people in a choose-your-own-advanture type of "casebook"). I would recommend checking Sherlock Holmes: Consulting Detective if you are into that, they are quite similar

[@terrainmancer6272]

Well done! Good to see you Sam and Tom. Great show you boys produced! You two are a couple of rockstars! Really great to see your hard work blossoming! Keep up the great gaming insights- Jonathan Myers

[@adamchristensen2648]

I like the 3 "top ten dynamic" between the three of you because, as was pointed out in the banter, because Sam's lists tend to have games with wide appeal and availability, Zee picks games that are often harder to find and less thought of but can usually be counted on to get to the table (read: fast playing/thematic/light etc.), and Tom is middle of the road mechanic/theme focused. And then the comments are for honorable mentions. I think I just realized why you always sit in the same order...

[@headphonic8]

Sam has wide appeal?? He chose BSG! Zee chose Deception, which is the wide appeal!

[@ashleepradella4912]

haha Tom looks so different without glasses! Great list as always guys :D I think Sam hit most of my favorites. I'm surprised spyfall didn't show up on more lists.

[@bloodrunsclear]

Love these lists :)

[@Phlip45]

I really like Noir: Inspector vs. Killer, but only the 3 to 4 player variant where everyone is a spy. It is pretty light deduction (there are only 24 cards and each move eliminates about half) but there is the added aspect of having to then get near that person without them catching you. The reason I like the 3/4 player version is that having that extra player or two adds a little chaos where other players moves can set you up to capture someone and it is very difficult to track all the players at once. Combine that with a small package (just a tuck box for the original which I have) and only 15 - 20 minutes of play time, this is one that hits the table very often for me.

[@ferver-san]

Tom has the best list on this one by far. Sam's most games are barely deduction games.

[@dorpth]

I think Sam makes it a point to intentionally ignore the topic of every single list they do.

[@errolwilde1656]

I like the way zee makes his list the best, it's like a combo of most fun game and best use of the category. whereas Tom's list is best use of the category and Sam's is favorite game that uses the category well.

[@elrodrigo6188]

*raises hand* But what about CLUE? *gets eaten by herd of wild ducks*

[@pasqualecirone9755]

I'm surprised Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective and Tragedy Looper didn't make the list. I have to say: out of the 3 lists, I have a strong preference for Sam's top 10.

[@Murkaeus]

FYI, Homeland: The Game is now classified as Deduction on BGG, Sam.

[@EclecticCamel]

I like how excited Tom got about the Salem box.

[@johnbyrne8128]

This was the best top ten in a while for me! Very enjoyable! let the people keep voting!

[@alexanderparker410]

Dang I was hoping to see Noir on here, I just got the black box edition and everyone I've played it with (so far only 1 v 1 game mode) has loved it! Super simple rules and plays in 10-15 minutes.

[@ethanlammar5554]

Secret Hitler? Love letter? Both should be on a list

[@JosefFerguson]

Sam's impression of Tom (with "different") is pretty spot on.

[@Chrisprusse]

I enjoyed this. Really liked Zee's grammar vampire.

[@MattyJude]

There was a physical hand no mouth laugh/gasp with that TI3 burn from Sam to Zee.

[@mrsamtheman80]

Good list! At first, I thought Mystery Express was Tom’s #2, also Days of Wonder. To me, MotA did replace Clue...but then ME replaced Clue and the Clue aspect of MotA. (I still play MotA for Guess Who meets Clue.) ME is like Clue but with 2 cards per person, item, motive, etc. There are some other small differences, but that in and of itself makes it far superior than Clue for deduction. The reason it edges out MotA is because of the flaw Tom mentioned.

[@gurtana]

When I read the title of this Top10 I thought it was referring to Hidden Movement games, but the majority is definitely deduction that is not related to Hidden Movement deduction. And I had expected Hanabi to be on the list, being an award winner and all. Or Coup as an alternative to The Resistance. In fact, I wondered why Avalon isn't mentioned at all for the King Arthur theme on top of the Resistance game, which fits Shadows Over Camelot theming. Must admit some of these picks were interesting, Confusion seemed like the Lord of the Rings game with the Standees. And for a different take on deduction element in opposition games, games like Yomi, WWE Superstar Showdown and even something like Gravwell use a kind of deduction element/memory portion to mitigate randomness and improve chances of success (i.e. I know my opponent played X amount of these cards which are lost from the card pool and critical to their play options, so I might be able to play this card now)

[@GamingWithGeo]

Tragedy Looper is easily on my list. Just got the expansion but haven't tried it as of yet.

[@Lugo428]

the real tragedy is how ignored the game is.

[@NickNackLetsPlay]

I'm missing all the other great cooperative deduction games out there like Hanabi and Criminal Cabinet (recently rereleased by Ystari). Then there is one game I consider one of the best of all times: "Die Kutschfahrt zur Teufelsburg".

[@metal134]

It wasn't Specter Ops, but I was playing Letters From Whitechapel as Jack and had the exact feeling Tom described at 30:17.

[@davidpeterson5179]

My List is pretty close to Sam's I own and love Good Cop, Bad Cop, I've played Murder in Hong Kong, really liked it. I love the Resistance but always seam to be teaching it so, haven't had a chance to play with the expansions. I do own this game with expansions. Homeland looks interesting, looks like a light BSG or Dead of Winter, games I really like. Spectre Ops is pretty fun only played it once and lost but still like it. Spyfall is always fun Fury of Dracula sounds interesting, I do like Spectre Ops, so should like that game, Shadows Over Camelot is a great game, haven't had a chance to play in a while. I do own that game. Battlestar Galactica - YES YES YES, best game ever. I of course own this game as well. Great list Sam. I would have Dead of Winter and Dark Moon on my list as well, I do own both of these games. Btw Sam, I have played BSG 3 times in a row before, we were gaming for about 12 hours, "It was AWESOME". to quote Jason there.

[@roar8951]

Does anyone else miss this era of the Dice Tower? The progress OSS the channel is great and impressive but man, it’s just not the same to me.

[@TheLimestoneCowboy]

If I have to make a prediction according to what “usually happens” I’m using induction. Example: Bluffing in Poker. Your eye twitch’s when you lie. It just twitched again. You must be lying now. Example: A jundge’s preferences in Apples to Apples. The last time you were the judge, you picked the silliest card, even though it didn’t have anything to do with the prompt. So I’m going to play my silliest card no matter what. Example: Fabricating probabilities in Quacks. You’ve deduced that you have a 50% chance of drawing a cherry blossom. But during preceding 2 rounds, you busted, when you arrived at this deduction. So you induce you won’t get lucky this time either (even though the probability is still 50%).

[@wroot_lt]

Zee is SO back in shape in this one. Hilarious to watch :) "I never watch our channel" :) "I'm disappointed!!" :D Also loved how he was getting more and more excited about that Confusion game (mirror Stratego). Oh, you don't know you pieces, how interesting. What, you can even lie to your opponent? He's on the hook :D

[@mrlucid1875]

Wow nice video!!! Also "Throne of Lies" Online Game!!! We love this genre~~~

[@MisterNizz]

This was really quite good. Deductive games are a favorite of mine. Surprised you didn't mention HOAX.

[@Steve-L]

+W. OHara I beta tested the new reprint/retheme. I think it's just hitting the stores. it's amazing, see my comment for more.

[@Atlasfilms08]

Codenames? I know Sam and Zee hate it but Tom likes it and it's in a similar vein to Deception.

[@gamecadet8679]

Yeah, Salem is a pretty fun game and that box is brilliant.

[@klascom1]

I feel like the two mechanics are different enough and that there are enough games in each category to warrant two different lists for Logical Deduction and Social Deduction respectively.

[@gheilers]

I am surprised that no one - particularly Zee - mentioned Hanabi.

[@BlimpMcGee]

+Greg Heilers And Love Letter

[@Tupiaz]

Hanabi is CO-OP game it is not meant you deduct anybody.

[@gheilers]

As a player, you use DEDUCTIVE reasoning, based on the clues provided by the other players. It is the dictionary example of a "deduction game."

[@pedro_navarro]

He and Tom mentioned Str8 which is pretty similar.

[@RobbertdeGroot]

Bang the dice game is not considered deduction?

[@orwv]

House of Borgia is a very interesting deduction game that is crowdfunding now on Kickstarter.

[@gheistlich]

Very surprised not to see T.I.M.E Stories in here. I didn't really expect to see Codenames, but I kinda expected someone to compare something to it, or that it might make a short list.

[@mike3838]

Sam: "My number 10 is a game that you can play with... some people. In it, one side is trying to win. And the other side is trying to win too." He's just trolling us now...!

[@pedro_navarro]

Zendo is based on Eleusis, a game that you can play by using a normal deck of cards.

[@superkoko9]

I don't feel like the point Sam did arround the end of the video about listing only games you own and have recently played is a valid one, because some deduction games do lack on replayability so much it's almost a one time deal. For example my favorite one is SH:Consulting Detective, but I have not played this in a while nor have it in my collection anymore because once you have played all the cases on the game you are done, so I traded it away. Which does not make it a worst game, nor one I would recomend less because of that. Just one I do not own or play on a regular basis.

[@dannylutz194]

New SH:CD coming out very soon! Also Mythos Tales, a Lovecraftian clone of Consulting Detective was recently released.

[@justified1996]

If you really look at the game design of Sleuth, the person who gets the investigation/inquiry cards that just happen to align well with the 3 hidden gem cards, has a ridiculously huge advantage. I will only play Sleuth now where every one can inquire however they want on their turn (no card constraints). If you play it like that it's even better and less luck.

[@Straddllw]

No love for Tragedy Looper :( One of my favourites that I can't get to the table.

[@martinlarouche4418]

Wanted to add just that... Tragedy looper's tragedy is to always be ignored. Awesome game, though you DO need to be in the right mood for it. That game is tense...

[@thetiger51]

I'm pretty sure Tom hasn't even played this yet

[@Straddllw]

+Jim Blizzard Quick! Somebody get Tom to play it!!!

[@thetiger51]

Straddllw I know Eric has played it and liked it but I'm pretty sure Tom hasn't. It's really a shame because it's a brilliant game, I love that you have to lose in order to win

[@EclecticCamel]

+Straddllw Yeah everyone raved about TIME Stories, but ignored Tragedy Looper for some reason.

[@asnpogi]

Can we please get an updated list?

[@IvanGrimm1]

deduction games are possibly my favorite category, but I hate social deduction. I think I only like maybe 30% of the games on these lists

[@sneezyteaches5339]

same, but I really enjoyed Deception: Murder in Hong Kong. I feel like that one is 70% logical deduction, 30% misdirection and social deduction. It's the "right" kind of social deduction game to me. Have you tried it?

[@drakebauer4496]

I'm surprised no one went with Sherlock holmes detective consultant.

[@pedro_navarro]

Zee mentioned Watson & Holmes which, for him, is better that Sherlock Holmes.

[@joleenevans4554]

Was half expecting to see Time stories: Asylum on one of your lists. Not deduction enough?

[@sparkingconduit]

I think I get what Sam is trying to say when it comes to Dead of Winter. Nobody mentioned it in the video, but it probably doesn't feel like a deduction game because everyone has a different objective to fulfill. In Shadows over Camelot, everyone on the good side has the same objective, so it's easier to figure out if somebody is working against the group. But in Dead of Winter, you don't know if the person hoarding item cards is a traitor or if they're simply trying to meet their own win condition. I think this helps extrapolate on his point that you're all "playing your own game".

[@janpawedwa4590]

BGG shows Magic Minds as released (the telepathy reprint) but I can't find it anywhere. Anybody knows why is that?

[@ilisek]

No Letters from Whitechapel? :(

[@spiritconsumer]

So TIME Stories, doesn't count here, or it didn't make the list?

[@TrenceA]

That would depend on the story you play I guess.

[@cadenhall8747]

With some of the games on this list Sam easily could have squeeze Star Wars Rebellion into his list. I was half expecting it to be his #1

[@raszXavos]

Mysterium!!

[@Tia29451]

I thought Alchemists would get more love boo. Thanks Tom!

[@Straddllw]

It was number 3. That's a lot of love.

[@Tia29451]

+Straddllw I meant, I expected it would be on more than one person's list. I'm glad Tom likes it so much ☺️

[@Straddllw]

+Cyn R my favourite didn't even make the list :(

[@sebastienzander5593]

No Duel in the Dark from Sam? I think that you guys could have done this and a list about social games- so ones like Dead of Winter or Shadows over Camelot or ones you only play with certain people?

[@ReLeaseHaVoc]

*Rises from lair* It's abduction. :P The same type of logic Sherlock Holmes uses and I think it's definitely OK to call it deduction in a common sense understanding. For example, the grass gets longer after rain, the grass is wet and longer, therefore, it must have rained. It's not a necessary conclusion (it could have been a hose pipe) but it's still coming to a particular conclusion from general premises so kind of straddles induction and deduction.

[@GasperSitar]

What about Tobago? I just got it and I think it's great.

[@joetrotta9211]

Most people get the technical definitions of 'deduction' and 'induction' wrong (usually in a 180 degree way, actually --- when you start with clues and come to a general conclusion (as in most of these games) that is INDUCTION - not deduction (if you don't believe me, you can, just like any rigorous scholar, check the interwebs: www.butte.edu/departments/cas/tipsheets/thinking/reasoning.html. I blame Arthur Conan Doyle and Sherlock Holmes for this disgraceful misuse of English. However, for most of these games, players are actually using ABDUCTION (which, annoyingly enough, also has a 'layman's' meaning). I shall now return to my grammatically and semantically felicitous lair and wait eagerly for Dice Tower's top ten abduction games.

[@user-ou7uo8rl5d]

yeap, you're right

[@cernos7230]

But I thought 'induction' is from specific to general and 'deduction' is from general to specific

[@allluckyseven]

Aliens!

[@facepalmjesus1608]

yes you thought well! what is your point? you start with specific clues and evidences and then you conclude the general idea...soooo?

[@Jayke1978]

i wouldn't include shadows and battlestar for the simple reason that deduction doesn't neces. win or lose you the game. Which for me, is key to a deduction game, but both are amazing games, regardless.

[@hanseathl]

Does anybody know if and when "Perfect Alibi" will be available in EU - preferably in German ? I am constantly looking for this game since it was already sold out in Essen as I arrived.

[@jackcarren8781]

Sam spoiled his number one during his number 2 😂

[@peteshirey1845]

Totally agree with Sam, Homeland is a deduction game!

[@austingarrigus755]

If you haven't tried Secret Hitler yet, you should give it a few plays through. It's got similar mechanics to The Resistance but it's different enough to shake things up and make it interesting again. The ideal size is at least 7 people, which is a bit large, but it allows for some of the really cool mechanics to take off.

[@jedx730]

have you guys done a top 10 "backstabbing" games list? games like diplomacy, lifeboats, intrigue, cutthroat caverns...or are those considered "take that"?

[@TabithaBear]

They have done a top 10 of games not to play with angry people which I believe included some of those games. There is also a Top 10 of take that games, though I can't remember if that was a triple top 10 or just Tom.

[@faramirtheranger]

I kinda expected that Mysterium would get an honourable mention.

[@loupdo7843]

It got from Sam at the end.

[@TabithaBear]

Yeah we had a Mystery at the Abbey where two people eliminated everyone from their lists because of an error. 😟

[@pogue666]

I would say 'Stop Thief: Electronic Cops and Robbers' and 'Electronic Detective', both of which I own.

[@mrservros]

:O where's coup? It isn't that popular i know, but its a great game!;)

[@benl2140]

mrservros I guess most people don't consider it a deduction game, although I always play it very much as a deduction game. In fact, the main reason I like it so much is due to the deduction aspect. I was also pretty surprised that it wasn't even mentioned.

[@enorma29]

I knew I would find this comment somewhere down here.

[@deserter85]

I second Think Str8! Being an awesome deduction game. And the components are horrific. I laminated the board and all the cards.

[@recardobruno7071]

would be great see top 10 abstract next

[@susanafreire4444]

Sam should be glad to see Homeland: the Game is labeled as deduction on BGG now ^.^

[@charlespolenzani2219]

LOL "I need a STRONGER GAME!"

[@ramonosuke]

54:10 Yeah, but Sam that's why your lists tend to be very samey, cause according to you Battlestar Galactica is your favorite Deduction, Co-op, team, thematic, etc. Granted sometimes it works out that way, which is cool. One game can fit the bill in a lot of categories, but I feel(and others too) you don't put enough research into these lists and simply pick games that you love. I have to agree with Tom, the list is top 10 games with "deduction" as a central mechanic. I love Sam, and he has grown a lot as far as tastes and "hyperbolic opinions" are concerned, but still sometimes misses the point of these lists.

[@Jeff321]

Sam, can you review Salem please? It doesn't appear that anyone else has.

[@SoloFalcon1138]

+Jeff3210 he probably won't due to subject matter

[@HatterM111]

really no COUP ? I'm a little bit sad, the Game really needs some more love... :(

[@wroot_lt]

The only thing i have played and can think of is Coda (Da Vinci Code or some other name, similar to Code 777) and Saboterur (you kind of trying to deduce who is the bad gnome). Also, i have played Shadows over Camelot, but deduction part is suuuch minor in there, so i don't feel adding it to this list.

[@Wolfvonhinslik]

Tom, I remember you reviewing a game a while ago for couples. where you each draw cards or something, and have to do things like rubbing shoulders or feet or something. at the end of the week or so, whoever completed the most wins. if you are called out on it, you lose that card. or am I delusional... I swear you reviewed something like that around the time you reviewed that "game" to choose the nest game.

[@AntlersCenarius]

I guess I am just odd, but my favorite Deduction game get's no love here, Abracadabra...What? So much fun, especially with 4 or 5.

[@benediktcz]

if zee gave sam a little bit og garbage about his number one game, it would have been deception! :)

[@tobynmanthorpe]

That's not deduction, that's induction.

[@facepalmjesus1608]

could be abduction too!

[@diegoribba]

owned

[@pedro_navarro]

My cook works by induction My brain works by deduction

[@wroot_lt]

Surprised Zee didn't put Mr. Jack games on this list o.0

[@sherylw4599]

I

[@searose6192]

Would love a review of Timbuktu guys

[@bobgabriels8456]

maybe hanabi also could have been a contender for this list, but that's more memory game I guess. (another top list topic ...) And that pulls in bomb squad ... but that's a real-time game (another topic ...)

[@NickNackLetsPlay]

+Bob Gabriels Actually whenever I play Hanabi we houserule that you can ask the other players about what you know, so you don't need to remember anything. We play it as a pure deduction/communication game.

[@dreadknot69]

I thought TIME Stories was a deduction game? If so, I'm shocked that none of them even mentioned it on their list.

[@stevensimms6566]

Dead of Winter I wouldn't class a full on deduction game even though it is amazing I would definitely put more in the cooperation games category

[@darthgrader]

Was Tom trying to make a Monty Python reference at 12:07? The words seem right, but the voice isn't British-and-screechy enough...

[@TheLimestoneCowboy]

I caught that too

[@oonwc]

Shout out for Plunder. Take away that stupid treasure stealing rule and it's an excellent dynamic pirate Sudoku game.

[@2teachers2kids38]

51:16 Sam nearly swallows his bottle :)

[@davidwayneflowers]

38:46 "That's why you don't play TI3...too much game for you." Had me cracking up.

[@BotBot1178]

I want to know the lists, but do not want to go through an hour long video. Did you guys upload a list somewhere?

[@ioanapacurar7139]

They have the lists in the last minute of the video.

[@ninjatuna6]

Is TIME Stories not deduction?

[@matthewharris-levesque5809]

SALEM - The Zombie (Or Cthulhu!) Edition!

[@Steve-L]

I am not much into deduction games. I was not overly fond of Clue when I played just traditional/classic games, although I found it mildly entertaining. I do prefer and like social deduction games. 1. Bang! the card game (#6 in my top 100). This doesn't have a lot of deduction, but there is some. Maybe half the game is deduction? I love the theme and my game is super blinged out, see here: boardgamegeek.com/thread/1084045/playing-bang-more-theme 2. The Resistance (#18 overall). I played this at one convention (several games) and quite enjoyed it, one of these days I will buy it. 3. Werewolf/Ultimate Werewolf: Deluxe Edition (#21 over all). This game has gone over big in my circle. I learned it at a convention a year ago, introduced it to my friends, and family, and gaming circle. It has exploded and my friends have now shared it with others. In 1 year we estimate 100 people have learned and played Werewolf because I found, played, and introduced it. 4. Bang! the dice game (#28 over all). Perhaps the most played on the list. A quick fun game many people have enjoyed. 5. Spyfall (#34 over all). Another game that has gone very well among my family. It has fallen on my list and while I still like it, I don't enjoy it as much as I did at 1st, but truth be told I wasn't as fond as many people others do. 6. Good Cop Bad Cop (#35 over all) I have mixed feelings about this game, sometimes I find the game amazing, others blah, it may depend on the players in the game. I think it technically replaced Bang! the card game for what they both do. But because of theme and massive swing in enjoyment it doesn't hold a higher spot. 7. Two Rooms and a Boom (#38 over all). Played this at a convention last fall and enjoyed the experience. But not as fun as Werewolf, but fun nonetheless. 8. Battlestar Galactica (#44 over all). Played my 1st game a week ago or so at a convention. A game I have owned for over 2 years but never played. But finally played at the con. I quite enjoyed it. It definitely needs more plays, but not sure this one is for my family. 9. Hoax (#64 over all). A game just hitting stores now. I beta tested this game. It is a reprint/retheme. I keep telling people about this one. I think those who like deduction will enjoy this, it is probably an equal balance between social deduction and logic deduction, but is not heavy. I do think it could use a higher player count. 10. One Night Ultimate Werewolf (#65 over all) This game definitely needs more table time. I like it, but it's one that needs to be warmed up to. Others of note: Dead of Winter (#47 over all). I finally got to play this game a week ago at the convention. I was a bit disappointed, but mostly by the ones I played it with and how I was taught. It needs more play badly for a better opinion. I think its a lot like City of Horror but a couple notches better, but not enough for me to buy it, unless more plays change my opinion. I only mention it here because it was mentioned in the video. As #47 it is higher on my top 100 than other games listed above, but don't consider it a deduction game as my 1 and only game had no traitor. Star Wars: Rebellion (#75 on my top 100). I am surprised this was not on Sam's list. Playing the Empire is very much a deduction game, maybe Sam prefer's the rebels? A very good game, I think will be fairly popular once it hits the market, another game I beta tested. Shadows over Camelot (#110 on my list). It took a long time to get this game played. And one of the few I couldn't decide how much I liked it. It took 3 plays. I decided to sell my copy at the convention. Once I had played my 3rd game, it fell off my top 100. I do keep my list to 110 just in case replays of a game move back up. This has game probably won't.