Top 10 Hardest Turn-Based JRPGs Ever

A list of the hardest turn-based JRPGs I've ever played on different consoles.
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[@jmporkbob]

One thing that might be interesting is to have 2 distinct lists: hardest jrpgs (in a good way) and hardest jrpgs (in a bad way)

[@Cybermage10]

Great idea!

[@isidoro19david65]

Yeah i agree some of the games on this list are just unfair and have bad game design,so i don't think that it's real difficulty

[@GodOfOrphans]

Maybe a list for Hardest to complete: beat all quests and superbooses, achievements and trophies etc. as opposed to ones that are just hard to finish. A lot of games are easy to finish but absolutely bonkers to 100% to the point being harder than most of the other really infamous epeen measurement games. A good example of what I'm talking about would be the Kirby series for instance, they aren't RPGs but they are the best example of easy to just finish but crazy to 100%. I've seen the inverse too where the main story is harder than the post game or any so called superbosses but they seem to be rarer.

[@zengram]

The 7th saga is hard,but with effort(and levels!) You can beat that game. Is one of those games where you feel you are getting stronger

[@masteryoraerasante]

As in, Hard but Fair or Hard Grindfest?

[@moonraven6145]

Never really found Octopath Traveller too hard until the endgame grind where you needed to fight like 8 bosses in a row and then the multi form final boss without saving, that got pretty ridiculous.

[@officegossip]

Post game octopath is so awesome.

[@HouseOFBrandon]

@@officegossip was borderline ripping my hair out but the sense of accomplishment after beating that fucker

[@robinthrush9672]

Do the characters start interacting later on? I got bored on the second set of story-line cities due to the gameplay and lack of character interactions outside of a couple triggered events in the cities outside of the story.

[@tyronetiggums6441]

@@robinthrush9672 Triggered events still happen but you can unlock ones that involve 3-4 characters after clearing someone's chapter 4.

[@robinthrush9672]

@@tyronetiggums6441 But the characters from one story don't interact with antagonists from another story? Like when Frog confronts Magus in Chrono Trigger the third character (since Crono doesn't talk) would chime in with a few lines.

[@steverempel8584]

There are 3 different types of RPG difficulties: First, the type where you just need to grind levels, then the game is easy. Second, the type where you are forced to develop a good strategy to progress through the game. Last, the ones that are brutal, unfair, and patience and good luck are your only hope.

[@mooman1017]

Three types of "hard" turn based rpg difficulties, there are a few easy ones as well: First, the Spam good hit move and win. Second, the Choose the new command and win the normally very hard fight. Last, the "Whoops, the exp gain of this regular thing gave my unit too much exp/good loot, and now the game is trivial."

[@theforgottenera7145]

Second is the sweet spot

[@ophidianmind333]

SMT games on hard mode are like a combination of the second and third types.

[@no-thank-you]

Hi this is pretty late but do you have any recommendations that would fit the 2 and 3 criteria that are available on pc, I'm looking for a challenge

[@MasterAdam100]

Number 1 is Shin Megami Tensai 3 btw since Erik didn't mention it by name.

[@adamluther5836]

THANK YOU! I kept thinking I was missing something or not seeing what the title was!

[@rodoromero]

It's just that the hate for Matador overshadows everything LOL

[@baldilocks5686]

"Go tell your parents they might be proud of you" that line had me rolling on the floor. 🤣

[@Yup712]

As someone who has beaten “SMT III: Nocturne” many times, I feel the Remaster was made easier by the (much needed IMO) ability to choose which skills your demons will inherit in fusion.

[@BknMoonStudios]

I remember literally spending hours going in and out of the fusion screen to get the skills I wanted transferred. Regardless of how poorly optimized the PC remaster might be, this fact alone makes it the definitive edition, imo.

[@brandonspikes]

@@BknMoonStudios The PC version is not poorly optimized at all? What are you even talking about? If you mean the 30 FPS, thats because of the engines cap, but loading is instant, it has hotswappable controllers, full camera controls unlike the OG version of the game. Not to mention the PC versions have mods that restore the music to not sound blurry.

[@adrianbarcena78]

@@brandonspikes i think it’s been patched but I’m pretty sure it had a lot of issues when first released

[@somecrazydude2267]

also if anyone is struggling or need to grind (no shame, currently playing through for first time), switch to merciful for a bit. I only use merciful if I just wanna blaze trough a section I've been in already or level up something. other then that, the game is fine if you know what you are doing. also the manual demon skill inherit is a godsend!

[@somecrazydude2267]

@@adrianbarcena78 it was fixed a lot when released in japan. only thing that is the same is the compressed OST

[@MrErick82]

Resonance of fate is such a great jrpg. I miss that game

[@planescaped]

It had so much going for it and the sky was the limit for a sequel. It oozed atmosphere and was one of the more engrossing RPG's I've played in recent times despite having a story that really takes multiple playthroughs and a wiki to understand wtf is happening. Something that normally is a nail in the coffin actually works in its case though, as the main story isn't actually the focus point, it's more about the 3 protagonists. I remember people complaining after it came out about how it doesn't resolve X or never explains Y or what was up with Z not realizing that these things were the set dressing for the actual story taking place, which was simply the journey of Vashyron, Zepher and Leanne and whatever they were doing at the time. A mundane tale told in the shadow of a grand JRPG story. The whole reason too why the game was so atmospheric was because it didn't overly-expose too much of its world and kept the mystique. Resonance of Fate doesn't get the praise it deserves. It eschewed the typical JRPG storytelling by pushing the fate of the world and big baddies into the background and focusing on essentially sidequests, and I think a lot of people were confused by that, or didn't have the patience to work through the difficulty spikes.

[@Merlandese]

I love it. Such a great game, and the battle system is one of Tri-Ace's best ever

[@djlaw56what]

you can get it for the pc

[@karss2298]

You can get on ps4 for 30€ and for PC remasterd 4k editon or smthing like that

[@marcayu]

I think Strange Journey is harder. In III you can get better demons after Matador and the game gets easier, but in SJ the bosses keep getting harder

[@adblockevery1243]

Yeah i heard that one is insane

[@DKarkarov]

Funny you say that, I am watching a friend stream Nocturne. He never played the original and is playing the hd remaster blind. He actually one shot Matador, never died up to that point either. He just got past the Raidou/Dante fight. In between 1 shotting Matador and that fight he died 5 times lol.

[@DKarkarov]

@@came3268 Well answering this is kind of a spoiler to the game so yeah not going to be specific. First off the fiends have given him laughably weak RNG so far. For example Daisojou only physically attacked him 4 rounds straight, and never used dragon eye even once. Against Matador he also did not hesitate to use high end consumables like they were candy, and had to swap half his roster before it was over because he had a lot of demon deaths but dumb luck made matador never really go for the demi fiend.

[@lazyPawdy]

@7:36 “you’re a poor bastard the entire game” Well darn. I can’t even be rich in a game.

[@kevinmay9151]

I'm playing SMT 3 on and off now, and I got an achievement for the first time I died.

[@iansmith8783]

It’s a rite of passage 😂

[@nr2676]

Preta Feral Claw or Matador Andalucia ?

[@WhiteFangofWar]

@@nr2676 Spectre Foul Havoc ;)

[@kevinmay9151]

@@nr2676 It might of been some random battle I'm not sure.

[@BknMoonStudios]

@@nr2676 Random battle while traveling the wasteland.

[@raritygem1891]

I will agree with you on the breath of fire two. The encounter rate is just way too high with not much reward. Also I love the doll that you have sitting on your bookshelf. Is there any way you'd be willing to tell me where you got it? Or if that is supposed to be the character from your book any thoughts on possibly selling the dolls as well?

[@gorillabuttons6731]

Fighting Matador in a solo MC challenge run was the most fun I've had in Nocturne. Probably the boss that took me the most time to beat in my 10+years of rpg career, period. The good thing is that the Fiends' battle theme is kickass.

[@NerdyDude186]

I thought octopath traveller was easy 👀

[@TheMasterGoo]

Your not the only one.

[@amvretrus7930]

Hola erick, me impresiona mucho que aún sigas sacando videos sobre juegos RPG apesar de que te sigo desde el 2019, y eso es sorprendente para mí, he probado algunas de tus recomendaciones y si que me he viciado un poco, agradezco que solo le dediques este canal a ese género tan increíble, tienes todo mi apoyo

[@ForbiddenRite]

Arc Rise Fantasia was pretty hard too. I remember bosses being so overpowered that even if you were at the right level they would wipe out the party in a couple of turns.

[@draklen2244]

Dude seriously? ARF is one of the easiest rpgs out there.

[@rodoromero]

Very challenging, but the music is so awesome!

[@draklen2244]

Did I over Level or something what am I missing?

[@matthewtryon7452]

Octopath was the perfect difficulty imo. Such a great game. The only boss that I would say is very difficult are the secret ones and the true final boss.

[@JacaboBlanco]

I found the grind to be unbelievable. Never even finished it as I'm so under leveled. Or I just suck. Which..... is a strong possibility.

[@StacattoSoul]

@@JacaboBlanco The Dancer class is your best bet for grinding levels quickly, as their random effect dance can give you exp and JP multipliers. Typically you want to use a merchant to boost the dancer's bp, then unload a fully charged random effect dance (4 total random effects) to max out your chances of getting the right multipliers. Certain cave zones can also rarely spawn cat enemies that give you a massive xp boost, so if you can pull off an xp multiplier on one of those about 5-6 times you're pretty much set for endgame.

[@b3tuki]

agree, I ran ophelia and felt the game was too eas, the true final boss was the only thing I'd say it's hard

[@Woodzta]

"No one cares man. No one cares. Go tell your parents, maybe they'll be proud of you. " I love the sarcastic sass in this closing statement, but it's honestly pretty appropriate.

[@amel_lemouri]

Octopath Traveler is a grind fest, yes, but for the soundtrack i grinded like a monster without getting tired. Turned out to be my favorite game of all time, the soundtrack being a big reason!

[@sharebear421]

I wish a soundtrack mattered that much to me. If I don’t like the gameplay or story then the game is ruined for me

[@disciple366]

I'm so close to finishing it, but just cant bring myself to do it. Got a few characters I just dont feel like grinding to level up

[@amel_lemouri]

@@disciple366 I'll tell you a secret, i managed to end the game with everyone and all i did was grind, not for xp, but for money, go to the shops of that chapter and buy the best armor and weapons, they are kinda expensive but is worth it, and always bring a healer in your team. I did that with everyone in every chapter, sounds boring but as i said, the soundtrack was a great factor. The battle theme 2 is just amazing!

[@disciple366]

@@amel_lemouri I've already beat everyone's chapters 😂 i just need to beat the final boss

[@acidwizard6528]

Octopath Traveler is really great. Another good thing about it that it's success has inspired the development of more games like it.

[@wadewilson5712]

in BoF 2 there is a small island that when you get flying you look for a grind there for xp and gold ( there are a few monster types there but they are all giants) also using the "shaman system" to fuse the right characters together helps too

[@georgehatzimanolakis1904]

Love this game to bits. Listen to the ost to the whole franchise at least once a month

[@robinthrush9672]

It's clear you know What It Takes To Be A Hero.

[@justfaqih]

Keep doing what you're doing man. I've been binge-watching your videos. It's difficult to find comprehensive reviews on old JRPG games and in fact this is the only channel that I find helpful...

[@AmateurGameReview]

I love how passionate you are when you talk about these games. Great list!!

[@maxvsthegames]

I never had any issues with Breath of Fire 2. Yeah, the encounter rate is pretty high, but that's pretty common for RPG of that time. I never grinded and aside from the last dungeon and the penultimate boss, I never had any issues with the difficulty of the game. I think the problem might have been that you tried it when you were much older and less patient with turn-based RPGs.

[@rainfeather2997]

Pretty much there are a maximum of four places you might end up stuck in Breath of Fire 2: 1) Sten's solo boss fight against Trubo in Highfort. 2) Rand's solo boss fight against the paladin in FarmTown. 3) The fight against Barubary in Infinity 4) The final boss, but if you can take down Barubary, odds are really in your favor that the same party can take the final boss down.

[@itsmerb86]

Yeah I think I beat the game when I was 9 or 10 whenever it first came to the states I remember getting it for my bday. I never found it terribly hard just sometimes annoying with the encounters. I loved the story and art too much to let a little thing like that bother me.

[@SoulReaver1100]

in Breat of fire 2 dont foget Fusion denc of the Shamans to get haracter more powerful

[@plan9starbug]

'Beyond the Beyond' on PS1 was a real pain in the ass to play.

[@bcon1308]

I was thinking the same thing when I watched this. I will never forget that pyramid dungeon that I had to run in and out of multiple times just to get to the end of it!

[@fahimbadiwale3629]

what was the name of 1 game in the video 13:36 from looks of this it was some game from shin megami tensei series.

[@justinmay8161]

Whoa!! Was that Radiata Stories in the beginning? You've earned a subscriber 😄 I was just thinking about replaying it today.

[@yetarlin]

7th Saga is one of my all-time favorite games. I loved the grind and the music and just....omg I love it

[@XAn0nymousX0]

SAME

[@RayTheGmr]

I thought I was the only one struggling with Octopath, I've hit 200 hours and not even finished everyones chapter 4 yet lol

[@punchabunchabuttons]

200 hours and not finished chapter 4s? Dude, you suck!

[@RayTheGmr]

@@punchabunchabuttonsI play it on the side whilst im working from home so its a bit inflated but still long lol

[@AgosLive]

@@RayTheGmr it's ok, I'm looking forward to get back in to the game, I'm like 2 h of gameplay xD

[@mrowiasty]

Try learning the skills not just only on leveling up characters man!

[@RayTheGmr]

@@mrowiasty I've started recently using saving grace and patience/second serving for a few characters. They help a lot!

[@joypanchal5753]

Yo Erick wat ur thoughts on scarlet nexsus?

[@sukubo313]

First time I've watched one of your videos, but it was awesome! I love your voice and style, the way you talk about how FRICKIN' BRUTAL a game might be. I can feel the pain coming through, like you had just been creamed by a single slime that's 5 levels under your party. I'll keep watching.

[@siltos9139]

I really expected Natural Doctrine to be feature in this top, if you didn't, go try it, it's horribly difficult but somewhat satisfying. Or maybe i'm a masochist.

[@Kurowuf]

I think on one of his “hidden gems” videos he said he didn’t like it. Either way I really like natural doctrine, I really wish there was a sequel.

[@chronofantasy1987]

Yeah, I didn't have the patience for that one and gave up after the 2nd or 3rd level.

[@GeminiSunrise06]

Actually natural doctrine get way easier once you unlock magic skill. It's like on the 5th story mission.

[@jasonnugent4933]

SaGa Frontier. Holy fuck that game is hard

[@Dhalin]

It's mostly only hard because of how obtuse the mechanics are. Once you learn how to actually play the game, and how battle _really_ works, and/or have a little foreknowledge, the actual battles aren't quite as hard as they first appear. I used to think the game was impossible, but I got the Steam version not long ago and it didn't take that long until I got a group that was getting absolutely overpowered and just stomping everything flat in one or two hits. But... to get to that point, I had to read some guides and how-tos to actually understand how the game actually works.

[@kianlin3260]

I'm on the last chapter in RoF right now. Thanks for the list. Going to try Octopath next. Have you tried Tsugunai on PS2? That's the first hard JRPG that I played..

[@KoEnder]

Anyone know the song that plays during the Octopath section? 2:22

[@casualtap1794]

Octopath Traveler? For me, it’s friendly enough

[@ereez7674]

As a big saga player i agree

[@DamTheLad]

It's really friendly, I don't even know why it's on that list. I don't even see the link between this game and SaGa except maybe for how it's build with how you get the characters ? I wouldn't know, I played SaGa game but it's just not for me. The skill system isn't the same, the job system isn't the same, the leveling system is not the same, the battle system is not the same. Somebody, help me understand. Yes the post-game is hard. The game itself is easy AF.

[@a.z.64]

@@DamTheLad the game is pretty challenging tbh. Especially with the wrong party comp.

[@straypaper]

@@DamTheLad Contrary to popular beliefs, most people have a real life preventing them from grinding the game like you did. If you go around grinding the jobs and collecting the passives and buying every weapon then of course you'd access gamebreaking combos. Most people just want to boot up the game, run through a dungeon once, then finish a chapter in an hour or two of sitting. They expect to repeat this for every chapter until the last one and be in a proper power level for the final boss. That's what a good power curve look like, smooth enough for people to not notice their own or the enemy's power rising. Octopath has a really bad curve between the character's chapters. You can sweep the eight first chapter of each traveler because they're identical in difficulty (as consequence of the ability to start anywhere), then the next one is a significant bump up you need to grind through, but once you grind it it turns all eight of the second set of chapter into a breeze because, again, they're identical in difficulties. Repeat this until the final chapter and endgame. The difficulty looks like a jagged stairs with boring plateaus during the story portion and a pure, story less grind between them. It's a bad design. The difficulty doesn't imply skill curve (because how much skill is needed to put the highest number on characters and pick options in battle anyway) but an intense grinding need.

[@nimazsheik5152]

@@straypaper 100% agreed. I am a newbie to the JRPG genre but I absolutely hate grinding for hours, that's not skill it's just a time sink. Some bosses you can't even beat with strategy, you gotta just keep farming random enemies just to put a dent in the boss.

[@sirblake406]

Awesome vid Erick. I still haven’t beat ff tactics. Last half is so brutal

[@isidoro19david65]

Final fantasy tactics for the PSP hardest battle is the One against wiegraf(chapter 3)after that it's so easy especially with characters like orlandeu and balthier

[@mochamadcorysaktitriwangsa1398]

Is not really that hard if you do errand mission. You can get broken class without grinding

[@area51escapeArtist]

Ff tactics last half is broken.... Broken as in it's waaaaaaaay too easy. Wu tang.

[@Revz8bit]

Just fill your party with story characters, especially TG Cid, then win without any difficulty

[@dansmith1661]

@@Revz8bit Lies. The game was never that easy.

[@BkStunna217]

4sure #3 & #4 I can attest to. Brought back some old gaming memories. Funny thing I loved both of these games but the frustration level was absolutley through the roof...especially w/Resonance of Fate. Just like u said, at times I ain't know wtf was going on but I thought it looked really dope..so I tried to stick with it. Let just say it never stuck. Lol. Great video man 💪🏾

[@SheezyBites]

Dragon Quarter is one of my favourites, it only took one reset for me first time (which gives you more insight into the story too), and it was pretty early so it wasn't that bad, and second time it was generally pretty easy to get through without any SOL or D-Dives except for one particular boss which is definitely do-able, but who's recovery every turn means I often become a dragon for a few attacks just to get a head start.... that said trying to do all the unlockable secret areas for treasures, trying to the end of the secret dungeon or to get the dreaded one quarter run are some real challenges even as a veteran. Also I never thought resonance of fate was that confusing, the first boss taught me to be more careful with my charges (I don't remember their name, the ones you use to do the run and gun shenanigans) and when you first encounter poison it is a real eye opener and is a significant difficulty spike, but once you've learned those lessons it was generally pretty easy... although it is very much a game on a knife's edge, you tend to either finish a battle having taken no damage and walking away with loads of loot from launching enemies into the air, or barely limping away/dead because you didn't manage your risk quite right. Obviously everyone has different experiences, and I'm sure there are games I find really difficult you had no issue with, so no shade... just a different perspective. Also Cosmic Star Heroine's Hard mode deserves to be here, few games have made such a statement of intent to make you push the statement to it's limits in the very first fight... I know it's meant for people familiar with the game already, but jumping into that blind and dying like 3 times to the first dog you encounter until you start to figure out the exact optimal way to use your buffs and debuffs (which you'll need to remember and use even better later) was proof enough that it was a game I wanted to stick with!

[@Nicholas-or7df]

Nocturne can be quite hard for the average player, but the hardest SMT? I think Strange Journey and Digital Devil Saga are more worthy than Nocturne.

[@DKarkarov]

Yeah I agree, I have played all of them and Nocturne isn't even close to the hardest. It it just infamous because of matador, most megaten games wait until you are at least 10 hours in or so before they ask you to have a decent team that can handle more than healing and doing damage. Also people made a meme out of it, but the fact that dante cameos in the original western release definitely got a lot of people who would otherwise never give it the time of day to play.

[@ltb1345]

Hardest one is probably Devil Survivor on the so-called """normal""" difficulty.

[@AniShikima]

Great List!, also I think Beyond the Beyond for PS1 is a good contender to add to this list :)

[@zer0zer082]

That last boss was brutal. No room for errors.

[@slusheewolf2143]

I love that game, even though it's usually rated as one of the worst RPGs ever. I personally believe that it is Camelot's opus Magnum and anything that they touched before doesn't compare, such as the Golden Sun series.

[@travisfield9769]

yep it should be first

[@jamesquiggins]

What game is the character on the title card from?

[@Ash113Lynx]

I wouldn't say it's super difficult, but Dragon Warrior 7 (the PS1 version) is an absolute grind fest. Just to add more grind to it, the job classes have their own grinding requirements (number of battles, but you can't just breeze through a ton of slimes, they have to be somewhat level appropriate or they stop counting). Thankfully, the 3DS remake cut a lot of this nonsense out. But there's a reason 7 PSX is considered the longest in the series

[@newgameaaaa]

Yeah. I played and beat Dragon Warrior 7 when I was working part time. It tooks months to beat and get the stuff I wanted. I think I had about 215 hours on it.

[@jeffcox6539]

The remake of Breath of Fire 2 on the GBA was easier. One part of the game you played with Sten, the monkey, and enemies used an instant death spell. That was removed in the remake. Luckily if you died there was no penalty.

[@brianlav1]

Original Final Fantasy 1 had a dungeon, where there are enemy mages that cast the Break spell that can easily wipe out the whole party. Than you have start the dungeon all over again. Sometimes you have to start over the dungeon several times if you are unlucky. I am surprised he did not mention the original Final Fantasy 1 on the NES.

[@jeffcox6539]

@@brianlav1 harsh. I only played it on the GBA.

[@robinthrush9672]

@@brianlav1 I do not miss the D&D spell tiers in OG Final Fantasy 1. I do like Black Mage a bit more than I should, admittedly.

[@hydrogene]

Personally, I would say Dragon Quest 2 and Shining The Holy Ark was quite hard the first time I played them, but these games are absolutely awesome!

[@1georgekitchen]

STHA was hard, but fair. One of my favorites.

[@pablomadrid6962]

DQ2 was pretty shit on the NES at least. Mostly the world/dungeon design really, but I wouldn't make even my worst enemy play through it.

[@nickofthelivingdeadgaming8680]

Enjoying your videos, glad to have stumbled upon your stuff at 3 a.m in a stoner haze

[@TheRetroWorld]

I haven’t played Octopath yet but it’s been on my backlog forever. Can’t wait to get mad when playing it haha great video like always man!

[@seefood7008]

Another youtuber over exaggerating about the difficulty of Nocturne. The only thing that is “hard” about it are the dungeons (those dungeons can die in a fire)

[@gilded_lady]

Agreed. Normal is a very playable game. Hard is deliberately broken, but I also think games shouldn't be judged on hard mode.

[@RionAgrias]

The only annoying part (outside of the mindless dungeons) is that once you learn how to buff/debuff is that cheater called Mot.

[@adblockevery1243]

Burn in hell dungeons. BURN IN HELL!

[@seefood7008]

RionAgrias yeah Mot can be annoying but even then you can just recruit a demon in the dungeon Mot is in that uses electricity (Mot’s weakness)

[@seefuud2839]

ya not to mention that because these youtubers overexaggerate about the difficulty of Nocturne, it deters new, potential fans of SMT who might actually be interested in trying the series out; i should know, because it happened to me.

[@KnolanCross]

Octopath traveler? The game is only hard if you try to advance stories in different paths (which case you will be under leveled), but if you complete all chapters in order, it is fine.

[@xPatogeno]

What do you mean with that? Like only pick 4 members? I haven't played the game but I did watch it a bit

[@mekannatarry1929]

@@xPatogeno Play the stories in the order that you unlock them, and adjust you party based on whose story you've completed. I was switching out characters the moment I met them, but once I stuck with a team that I'm planning to complete, it got a lot less stressful.

[@xPatogeno]

@@mekannatarry1929 Got it! Thanks!

[@ryanpercival9823]

...I can explain Resonance of Fate. Loved that combat system! ALSO, I had Breath of Fire 2 on the GBA as a kid. Was that version easier than the SNES version? Cause Im replaying it now on the SNES. At the water cave boss and getting my ass kicked. I suspect its harder and my character is levelling up slower.

[@jordanjackson6151]

Yeah! 'Dragon Marked For Death' at the beginning. Do you ever cover or review that game?

[@andresdemairena8630]

Vagrant story is really difficult as well, my friend. Regards from Rohan.

[@Dhalin]

Not really a turn based game though.

[@andresdemairena8630]

@@Dhalin For me it was, I even felt the Breath of Fire II easier. I learned the VS game system after many hours of play. After epic battles, I finished the game and it became one of my favorites. I still play it from time to time. See ya!

[@slusheewolf2143]

I just started Vagrant Story and the storyline is extremely fucked up LOL I got to a part where I don't know where to go next, and I think that's the most confusing thing about vagrant story. It's never really clear what you're supposed to be doing, added to the fact of the controls are a little bit wonky so sometimes you press things you don't want to press.

[@cuylshepherdton7437]

If you have good timing Vagrant Story is laughably easy...

[@Dhalin]

@@cuylshepherdton7437 VS is a weird game. If you have perfect timing, you could kill absolutely anything with your bare hands, but yet it would take absolutely forever. If you have bad timing, well... you're not going to kill much of anything at all. And of course there's the weapon degrading system, there's trying to figure out how to make your character deal more than 2 damage a hit which is *NOT* easy by any means, even with reasonable length combos, it's hard to actually get weapons that will do any amounts of damage, and of course, they decided to throw in ludicrously obtuse damage calculations, because why not? That was all the rage at the time. In Short: I am not saying VS is a bad game, I am more saying that VS could have done things far different when it came to its core combat. It's a tediously slow game that could have been made oh-so-much better. The worldbuilding, art, music, story, etc are fantastic. The battle system is.... bleh. I get that they were trying to do something innovative, but this is PS1 Square-Enix we are talking about here, that was when they were throwing pasta at a wall to see what sticks (which is why we never saw this sort of thing ever again).

[@windwaker0rules]

If anyone was having any trouble on a tri ace game just remember that you are probably losing because you didn't invest enough stats into strength so don't be afraid to take that 10% you invested into speed or magic or defense just go strength it's all that matters

[@bryandavidasuncion9515]

I read somewhere that the dungeons in Phantasy Star 2 was designed by a new employee who was over enthusiastic and made them very complicated. The team felt bad to throw away the designs so they just used them.

[@MiamiSunrise]

There seems to be a pretty wide variety of takes on whether Octopath and other JRPGs are hard or not, this comment section certainly proves that. Some people play for the experience and take what the game gives them, others use a crutch to stand on by using occasional walkthroughs or tips, some just cheese games by staring at information already made and just play til the end with no decernible reason for challenge.....and on and on, many ways to play a game. I have not seen many videos using polls or evidence for how people play these kinds of games, a video I'd like to see someone do. Great video!! I think this list is on point for the games in it I've played, also, I'd add the OG version of Dragon Warrior/Quest 2 on NES. YIKES! With no save states that game was menacingly difficult at least to me.

[@degapalgamer3772]

Hey Miami wasupp

[@makinbacon919]

Dragon Quest 2 is the hardest JRPG I've ever played, harder than many of the games on this list, imo. Mainly because you have to grind FOREVER to be strong enough to get through the final dungeons. There's a secret thunder sword that helps a lot, but I didn't find it on my first playthrough and most people probably won't either without a guide.

[@Oksenholt]

It's strange, so many people say that DQ2 is a difficult JRPG, but I remember playing this around age 12 or 13, and I remember beating the game, but I don't remember it being that difficult. Maybe I should replay it now. Maybe I just don't remember the difficulty because it was so long ago...

[@makinbacon919]

@@Oksenholt We had a lot more patience at games when we were kids I think, plus nothing else to do all day, lol. As an adult, I found I don't have enough patience for the amount of grinding required in most Dragon Quest games, with DQ2 being the worst in terms of grinding imo. You'll spend an hour fighting to level up before the final boss and your stats only increase by like 1 or 2 points, lol, it's very tedious...

[@Oksenholt]

@@makinbacon919 Yeah, I think you hit it on the head there with the having more time and patience as kids. As an adult when you don't have all day to play games, you really don't have as much time to spend 2 hrs to go up 1 level...plus, my mindset has acclimated to the speed of current games, so older ones seem so much slower...but they are still awesome games!

[@theinktician]

Time/grind based difficulty will never be appreciated with the emulators everyone has today. Any time someone needs to grind they mash the speed button

[@jamesoneavatar8644]

Phantasy Star II is one of my favorite games. I never found it that hard, although the later dungeons could be confusing and annoying. I thought PS I was harder. A few tricks that make it easier: don't kill the slime type enemies that clone themselves right away, let them make a lot of copies. And use the thief to steal a Visiphone from the storage room by going in and out until she leaves the party. It allows you to save anywhere, like save states. 7th Saga was even more annoying than you stated, because halfway through the game, it resets to a new area that is impossible to win any battles in and grind. Also, I've heard the NPCs that join you level with you, and you have to fight some. At least 1 is impossible to beat if you're too strong

[@robertb.warren4749]

I'm glad you mentioned Saga Frontier. Enemy levels vary wildly from encounter to encounter. In one fight, you might easily kill the enemies, then get one-shotted in the very next one. Star Ocean: First Departure R is pretty tough too. The encounter rate and backtracking are through the roof, the dungeons are confusing because everything looks the same, and unclear objectives and frequent difficulty spikes bring story progression to a grinding halt. It's the definition of an experimental, old-school RPG.

[@awesomereviews1561]

Octopath is super easy. You just need to use the tools at your disposal. Like using the thief to steal everything from villagers. You move to far reaching area, escapes the fight, reach an advanced village, save and steal super strong equipment. When you have used your 5 tries, you either pay for it or reload your save. It makes the game very easy. You can also level up very fast by escaping fights until you see that rare cat enemy and you kill it and boom, done.

[@spectralfire4842]

If you dance until you get an xp boost that cat battle can go even further

[@rolandssavdons7993]

Man, you should try Trails in the sky nightmare or even hard difficulty. You literally have to grind in tutorial area. Still, a good list!

[@gamerelated8985]

No you don't lol trails in the sky is very easy...

[@rolandssavdons7993]

@@gamerelated8985 have you tried it on hard or nightmare though? Yeah, normal and easy are easy difficulties but on hard enemies are smarter and beefier.

[@deth2munkies]

You never actually said the name of the #1 game but I'm guessing it's SMT3 Nocturne just by the look of the main character and the fact it has demon fusion so it's an SMT game.

[@lindenstromberg6859]

For me, the most difficult post-2000 RPG I ever finished was XENOSAGA EPISODE 2. There is a battle at the end with a guy called The Patriarch, and the further you go into the battle, the harder he hits... you have to save all your major bombs for the last quarter of the battle, or you'll get wiped out. Also, the regular battles in the game are much fewer than Xenosaga Episode 1 and 3, but they're much more difficult... there are no battles you can coast through comfortably, like most RPGs. Also, the game's art direction (without Kunihiko Tanaka) is so painful to look at, that it increases the difficulty.

[@blackrosedragon88gm]

Xenosaga 2's battle system is really convoluted. I agree. Also, Xenosaga 1 and 3 anime art direction is definitely better imo.

[@ultrabosh6427]

Fully expected Resonance and 7th Saga to be here and was right. Both are incredibly satisfying if you can finish them.

[@geminilius]

I feel like you picked these based on the amount of grind that is required.

[@mooman1017]

"Required grind" is actually just "level of bunk exp rate" games are easy when you need to avoid random battles to not get too strong, wheras games are hard if you have to backtrack and fight uninteresting battles over and over again to stand a chance. There are also a few other things that can change difficulty without being tied to the exp rate, such as directly ignoring level attacks (death effects come to mind) and (many)status moves, but exp rate is one of the most important parts that effect difficulty.

[@GCJACK83]

Breath of Fire II is one of the games I made my nephews play. I made them play the entire game, including the fishing and hunting games. They hated me for it at first. Now they see it for what it is, a good game meant to be ground out over weeks and months to do decently at it.

[@maxxcreese9911]

Let them play bof 3 and 4

[@billcox8870]

I was pleased to see that you included the 7th saga. I tried playing that game for a bit and just couldn't get anywhere.

[@Daosguard]

It's hard as balls. I actually put a weight on my controller so I could literally farm exp as I slept. I ended up super buff but..... the companions level with you and they actually get HARDER as you level. They literally 2 shot you every single time. And you always have to fight a companion for one of the runes at some point. You have to pray for a miss before you can even attack. A very unique game but good god is it broken.

[@privcosebastian8957]

What is the best console for jrpg or srpg?

[@jymfiskburk2256]

You remind me about Resonance of Fate, i have a few gb to spare, gonna install it again

[@bustergundo516]

I enjoyed Resonance of Fate.

[@samsalisipan]

Loved Breath of Fire 2, but man, it was a grind fest.

[@timetraveler6615]

Same here.

[@neon-neku]

Breath of fire 2 is my childhood game so that I like grinding game

[@Falconslash3]

Until you know where to go the moment you have the whale and make Katt learn chop to go and 1shot giant golden flies that will just absolutely break the game with levels and cash

[@samsalisipan]

@@Falconslash3 I gave Chop Chop to Rand in my first playthrough. That was rough, lol.

[@maxvsthegames]

@@Falconslash3 Yeah. I always give Chop to Katt too. Maybe that's why I never had any problem with its difficulty. I don't even remember grinding in this game to be honest. And it's one of my favorite. I must have played it at least 5 times.

[@Jamesserx10]

I'll admit I haven't seen the rest of the vid at this point but it just surprised me, I had to ask down here. Did people actually find Octopath Traveler difficult and/or a grindfest? The only time I ever needed to grind was for the true final boss at the end, prior to that I kinda just facerolled my way through the game. I'll grant that I was thorough, cleared each "tier" of story quests in order (get all 8 characters, then do all 8 characters 2nd quest, then there 3rd quest, etc) but I assumed that was what most people did.

[@carlito6120]

What is the name of the number one spot? The name of the game is never mentioned or brought up on the screen lol thank you in advance!

[@bireland2012]

My pick for one of the hardest would be Lost Odyssey. The first disc bosses are brutal and feels like a coin flip as to whether or not you beat them.

[@edgarector]

You gotta be kidding! Being so unchallenging was the main reason I didn't like this game that much. It was such a cakewalk I just wanted to be done with it and move on to something more serious. You are probably talking about the first real boss - The griffon (was it a griffon? My mind is a bit fuzzy on that one). Yeah, you need a couple of tries to beat him, simply because you haven't unlocked anything so far, but it's far from difficult. After that there wasn't a single enemy or boss that provided any challenge (excluding Killalon - the DLC boss).

[@zackwoods5077]

That game is a cakewalk if your party is adequately prepared with a good strategy. Just play on the defensive for the first disk while not being under-leveled, learn the game mechanics and you should beat those bosses without much trouble. You are under-leveled if you gain a lot of experience points from the random encounters. You are on par if you only gain 1 exp each random encounter.

[@Crystan]

I remember beating Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter. It was actually the first Breath of Fire game I'd played. It was hard, but also pretty rewarding. Ryu's dragon form was to be used sparingly, but it was devastatingly powerful when deployed, and I love how the final boss forced you to do the unthinkable to win.

[@jole8723]

The bravely series can make this list as well. Just the first chapter final boss in Bravely Second is insane even with grinding. That whole game series was built on being op or suffering.

[@nightrunner9962]

Can anyone tell me the name of the second game shown in the intro? Where the character throws a grenade into a group of enemies.

[@nightrunner9962]

Sorry, should be the third game shown in the intro

[@materiasoldier]

@@nightrunner9962 Looks like a valkyria chronicles game.

[@muthesquirrel]

I dunno how you were playing SMTIII, most the random encounters can be beaten with auto battle. :p Matador really only teaches you to use buffs, debuffs, and pay attention to strengths/weaknesses. It's not an easy game... but it's far from top of list hard...

[@xLuis89x]

did you clear the bosses in that game by yourself on your first time? Or were you watching guides or playtroughs prior to it?

[@muthesquirrel]

@@xLuis89x I never use guides for games first playthrough. No I didn't beat all bosses first try, nor did I claim to? I did say it's not an easy game. Not beating every boss first try doesn't make a game #1 hard though. :p

[@romangarcia8706]

@@muthesquirrel did u play on hard mode?

[@muthesquirrel]

@@romangarcia8706 What? How is that related? He's not even talking about hard mode.

[@adblockevery1243]

smt3 dungeons are frustrating af though even with a guide

[@logiclion3570]

Breath of fire 2 is clearly a rushed game from the grinding,the encounter rate,the backtracking, to the usless fusion system since you loose it if you die or loose too much HP so you have to go back to the fusion lab everytime you loose it.

[@cuylshepherdton7437]

Breath of fire 3 has parts of it that make me feel like it was rushed as well. Sad stuff

[@ruekurei88]

You can buy items to reduce the encounter rate in Breath of Fire 2(forgot the name) and a certain character with certain equipment substantially raises the encounter rate.

[@Werewulf150]

Funny you put Nocturne at number 1, because I’m actually stuck right now at Matador. The Remaster kept the difficulty btw, but added the option to download an easy option.

[@galuademg6958]

When he used hama against Matador, I felt that.

[@angelganon8213]

What game was no. 1

[@galuademg6958]

@@angelganon8213 What do you mean?

[@geronuis2295]

im here for Katt. capcom please!!!

[@rogertrahan1691]

Digital Devil Saga becomes a breeze once you know that Iron Stomach or whatever it's called is a thing.

[@truthlesseightysix]

#1 must qualify under "a game that needs no introduction".

[@Sergioboy8888]

Love how you say "RPG" so much oomph (and that's not a DQ reference LOL)

[@simonefiumicini]

every SaGa game is brutal

[@ereez7674]

Yes romancing saga 3 and saga frontier 1 are the easiest of the series and their are still brutal Except if you play zo the elephant

[@georgehatzimanolakis1904]

@@ereez7674 1 is easy in the remake as leveling is fast and you basically have a walkthrough in the game. I'm currently trying to get all the trophies because I enjoy abusing myself. Star ocean first departure r is also one I'm also using as self-abuse.

[@dogsofa4338]

That last comment had me dying 😂 great video man!

[@rabbitcreative]

In BoF 2 there's a small island with a hut on it that is immediately available after getting the whale. That island has 4 giant mob-types, all of which grant huge XP, and 3 of them grant much gold. I grind there for ~6 hours until I'm level 55+ and then waltz through the rest of the game.

[@ltb1345]

So glad I'm playing the GBA version of Breath of Fire II.

[@lindenstromberg6859]

Yeah, the game feels more like a Dragon Quest 3/4 balance, which means you can probably get through without grinding, but it will be a bit of a challenge; grinding for 15-20 minutes at any point pretty much removes the challenge for the next few hours.

[@EzLopez]

I had a lot of trouble with Xenosaga II also.

[@Bluegundam13]

I just beat it last night, the combat is such a slog in that game. And overly complicated compared to the first Xenosaga.

[@gorillabuttons6731]

Yup. Bosses breaking your combos randomly disregarding any kind of meter isn't fun.

[@brishanf4526]

@@Bluegundam13 agreed. I think it's the reason 3 sadly wasnt as popular, people might have given up after it. 2 was big step down from 1

[@dansmith1661]

I leveled to 40 off those respawning enemies early on in my second playthrough and MOMO still died in one hit. This was with cheated saves from my last game for the thousands of points and made everyone have certain buffs and debuffs. Levels are made up and the points don't matter.

[@lablunt6190]

Bro fr! It ain't easy lol!

[@savingstumps]

I had a hard time with Phantasy Star 2, each time I tried it, until I accidentally stumbled on learning you can dual weird right off the bat, and that made it sooooo much easier.

[@michaeljohnston9944]

I love 7th Saga ever since it first came out but yeah, it could be brutal lol. Also though have to be careful about leveling because due to another error, you could technically screw yourself into a game over. As you level up the other apprentices level as well and get more stats than you do. Depending who you have to fight for the Sky Rune their is a chance they can become impossible to kill haha. Low chance but it is there.

[@ReaveIdono]

I love Saga Frontier 2!!!

[@ereez7674]

Saga series is godlike gameplay wise every random battle can be intense

[@peeyotchpipe2257]

When I saw the title of this video, I immediately thought “if he’s played it, Phantasy Star II has to be on this list” and lo and behold, there it was. I played it back in the day on the Genesis, and it’s the only RPG I’d ever seen that included the freaking hint book with the game! Some commenters mentioning that it’s no more grindy than other contemporary games are probably right, but it’s so much more than that. The encounter rate is through the roof. The save mechanic is a gigantic middle finger to the player. Getting the item that lets you save outside of a town could take literal hours of you just taking Shir to a certain place then going home to see if the stole it over and over and over again until you break your controller. And you’d never even know it existed unless you read the hint book. Otherwise, get ready to do the Climatrol trip over and over again as Neifirst kicks your ass, for example. But the worst of it is the dungeon design. Holy crapballs, whoever designed these things really hated their players. Guaron is 16 floors!! Ikuto is seven floors of pits that you have to correctly fall down in order to get where you’re going. The green dam and Climatrol are monstrous stair mazes that MC Escher would be proud of. Have fun mapping all that out if you don’t have the hint book! The game actually tells a compelling and very dark story (as well as sets up the rest of the Phantasy Star universe) but it’s so obscured by technical and QoL issues that most people can’t be bothered to put in the time anymore. Of any of the original Phantasy Star tetralogy, IV has aged the best and is still my personal favorite RPG of all time.

[@jackrunkle1983]

shin megami tensai 4 on 3ds came with a strategy guide

[@theinsanegamer1024]

I've played both Phantasy Star 1 and 2. The Sega Master collection is the best way to play it, you can use the rewind feature to fix mistakes you make. It's way better that way. I want to know, what would you do to improve it? From what I've played in Phantasy Star 2 (I hadn't gotten to the Nei fight, but did get close, from what I remember) and know it was annoying, especially the first few battles which took multiple attempts... but it was more confusing and tedious than difficult. Phantasy Star 1 is the same, requiring a map to figure things out... with the same big early game h**l problem. The only reason I could get through any of that is because the switch version has a map on the side and I'm an insane idiot who does the exact same thing twice and expects a different result, and it sometimes works.

[@timothymiller5539]

Great video! I'd argue Lost Sphear is really difficult but only if you play it on hard with max battle speed. Bosses can one shot your whole party even if your characters are strong. I'm definitely going to go back and finish it. Same with Octopath Traveler. Man, I love those two games. BoF2 was a childhood favorite. My buddy and I's file got erased like 10 times before we finally won with the good ending.

[@Kletian999]

I took pride in finishing Dragon Quarter with my first blind playthrough without the NG+. I used a ton of Nina's trap spells and the fact that healing items can be freely spammed mid battle. It was somewhat cool that the more you replay the more story and better items you got, but boy was it stressful.

[@maxxcreese9911]

You a real player. I have been playing and i am screaming my lungs out playing this game.

[@Kletian999]

Thanks. Another key was each boss got like 1 or 2 dragon punches and that was it. Pretty sure I had 35% left in my dragon gauge at the end.

[@lain11644]

I got one shot by about just everyone in The Last Remnant.

[@DipsyMum29]

I’m currently playing this on my iPhone and it’s pretty tough but enjoyable. Such a change of pace from the weak games they’ve got out now.

[@lain11644]

@@DipsyMum29 Have you gotten to the Gates of Hell yet? It was the first boss that really gave me trouble. I thought it was hard, but it only got harder from there lol. Literally Gates to Hell.

[@edgarferrer5025]

@@lain11644 some day Ill try playing the last remnant again, the game turns from easy to impossible

[@Dp_Unkemptharold]

Is the last remnant turn based? Have been tempted to try it but don’t know much about it

[@DipsyMum29]

@@lain11644 lol no I haven’t got there yet. Really enjoying the difficulty atm though but it sounds like I haven’t gotten far enough in yet for the difficulty spike 😂

[@claudiomonteverdi847]

i started the last remnant i fully expect to get stuck

[@TalesOfHunter]

I’ve started that game like five times now and quit after the first hour. The gameplay is just horrid for me!

[@kylemiles7484]

Currently playing through octopath traveler and I really never felt the need to grind, and I regularly fought enemies while drastically under leveled. Only thing that has proved to be truly difficult are level 50 bosses, but that is because I wasn't level 50 for most lol. Nothing compared to any SMT game lol

[@Alfrebaut]

I've played most of the games you've mentioned, and maybe it's because Breath of Fire 2 was the first RPG I ever played back in the 90s, but I didn't find any of them particularly difficult. The only RPG I quit on because it was too hard was the original version of Persona 4, and that's because I didn't realize you could leave the dungeon using certain items, and unlike in the Golden version I eventually beat, if you died, you went back to whatever your last save was, NOT the start of the floor. And that damned sauna area had a bunch of enemies with insta-kill AOE spells that would kill several party members instantly.

[@isaacguerra7888]

In breath of fire , only Ryu and Rand in firts file , everyone back file indeed the formation is the best way for survival

[@sebastienbusque2312]

I actually finished Breath of Fire II. The last boss was absolutely brutal, and that made it a memorable one. The economy, I will agree, had some big issues, especially late-game.

[@isaacguerra7888]

@@sebastienbusque2312 indeed use the money wised because the cost of best armor and weapons , and god bless the turbo buton of the emulador that help so mush in the rate moster annoying 🤣 but breath of fire was a great game indeed

[@DIP8ONE]

The only one I know and beat is DDS. I agree the usual teleport dungeons are the worst in SMT games. They break so much the pacing of the game.

[@ipdfmd1632]

I actually didn't have any issues with resonance of fate or valkirya profile, if you understand how everything works you end up having a great time, the hardest for me would be the rune equipment mechanic on VP, the other games on the list i haven't tried.

[@suzleber4]

7th Saga, I'm so glad that was mentioned, and proud to have completed it many times. Those were the Squaresoft and Enix days. If I can offer any advice in early game is to make use of defend and then attacking, especially with the weaker physical characters. It may be a slight disagreement, but that helps with the blocking and evasion.

[@dhu2071]

He didn't mention the most grueling part of 7th saga, the "rival hero" encounters, doesn't matter how much you grind because they are your level +1.

[@kevlar1482]

@@dhu2071 Nope. The star rune / traitor apprentice is set to +5 of whatever your level is when you talk to the sage in Eygus. So that one can be bypassed via grinding. The Sky Rune apprentice cannot. Though, if you are patient and lucky you can get them to join you and completely avoid the encounter.