Top 10 Hardest JRPGs Ever Created: Part 2

[@davidvinc]

Like this page and what I do here? Consider supporting me on patreon! www.patreon.com/davidvinc [0:29] - 10) Vay [1:29] - 9) Lagoon [2:27] - 8) Phantasy Star 2 [​3:24] - 7) Koudelka [4:18] - 6) Final Fantasy IV [5:19] - 5) Brainlord [6:15] - 4) Mother [7:11] - 3) Alundra [​8:07] - 2) Brandish [9:09] - 1) Hoshigami

[@marysunshine9193]

Cept Alundra was harder by accident

[@stevenmorton2059]

I discovered that the reason the 3d FF IV version is so difficult was that the gameplay designers EXPECTED you to abuse the new augment system. So, my advice is to not hold back. Abuse the hell out of that augment system. Be cheesy and shameless about it. You won't get very far if you don't.

[@dacrosby8858]

"What were they thinking?" channelling your inner AVGN I see :)

[@jaei6680]

Lagoon, hard? You could never imagine how hard it was for me. I was 6 years old and could not understand english, so it took me hours to just enter the first cave. The monsters were horrifying and when i finally had the guts to attack them, i just died again and again. I figured out i had ran around without a weapon equipped. By the time i managed to get the sword in hand, i've had enough and quit while my sanity was partly intact.

[@martinomagic9230]

I played the DS version of FF4 and I remember it being really fun, don't think I even realized it was more difficult then the original since it had been ages since I played it. It just reminded me that FF4 was probably my second favorite FF game since the characters were not just shells that could learn everything. So the battles were actually tailored with your characters in mind and had some actual strategy.

[@alucardvania986]

I had a similar experience. I love grinding so I would spend a lot of time aiming for a certain level for all my characters to reach, then continue to the next dungeon. Never realised it was considered a difficult game because my guys were so overpowered.

[@martinomagic9230]

@@alucardvania986 I don't so much love grinding just to grind. But in most RPGs as long as you don't run away from battles and take advantage of areas that give good exp for easy battles I rarely have a problem. The only games I end up grinding to much in are games where you can keep unlocking stuff by completing certain achievements or like in a few games your gear has skills on it that using it unlocks them. FF9 or Tales of Vesperia for example I was always overleveled because I would grind to try and keep up with the equipment I was getting lol. One of the worst for me was Tales of Graces F, I must of put 300 some hours into that game grinding out every characters achievements.

[@menschmaschine5]

I don't think it was harder than the original - it was just harder than the "easy" version originally released in the US. The original Japanese version was much harder than what got released as "Final Fantasy II" in the US.

[@g.munnyy]

@@menschmaschine5 I don't think a lot of people realize this. they made the og American version stupid easy. when they remade it for ds we finally got a version you couldn't just blindly walk through.

[@lynxfresh5214]

FF4 DS was actually my first FF game and I found it to be pretty fair, I did get a few game overs (looking at you Zeromus) but overall I greatly enjoyed it. Now the RNG to get the tails, rare summons and rainbow pudding can all die in Ifrits hellfire for all I care!

[@Lloydo111]

I really love koudleka 😩❤ the story & atmosphere was really great and being linked with SH made it even better! Also SH must get a HD collection 😭 i ask its creator every month on Twitter and i am happy he didn't block me yet xD

[@ryan_deakin]

I really love Koudelka and shadow hearts. Koudelka needs a remake though because I feel it is not fun to play at all

[@bastianc2683]

I don't remember the FF4 remake being very difficult at all or needing to grind very much either, I really enjoyed it personally.

[@DPopenhagen12]

I had fun with the IV remake. I thought the increase in difficulty was refreshing. Its the best version imo

[@robadams2274]

For FF 4, I had a trick to take care of the grinding. As soon as you become a paladin with Cecil, kill off your other party members and have Cecil grind alone at the top of Mt. Ordeals until you are lv 40 or so. Paladin Cecil wipes the floor with the undead there and if he fights alone, you will get a ton of XP. Every party member you recruit from then on is around Cecil's level so you shouldn't have to grind again until the end of the game.

[@lukewahlberg2154]

That's what I always did in the non-3D versions. Kill off everyone that isn't permanent and let Cecil become a god. In the other ones it was easy to handle by just getting him to 20, but I get why you'd want 40 in that one. First battle of the game? Kill Kain. (I felt that was fair for the backstabbing jackass, but that's just me).

[@noahhobson4521]

I remember seeing a thing for Mother in Nintendo Power as well. What I particularly remember is a picture of a fight against an angry semi.

[@taciolothar3794]

So, for seeing every ending in Hoshigami in the 2000's does that mean im a Badass Freakin' Overlord ?!

[@tuantrananh4015]

damn bro, i didn't even know it had different ending back then. i just get to ending then done

[@Rubaiin]

Funny Koudelka is one of my favorite games. Different strokes for different folks

[@MsShadowBlossom]

I always felt you could get REALLY strong really early on in Koudelka though. Maybe it's because it's one of my favorite games too 😂 Omg what a treasure that game and the Shadow Hearts series were 😭❤️

[@Rubaiin]

@@MsShadowBlossom they really are treasures! And yeah once you kinda know what you're doing and what skills you want to grind it becomes so much easier. Raising luck helps a ton too cause then you get a good chance of getting decent drops so weapons breaking almost becomes not a problem

[@Qba86]

I actually found the battles to be to be quite balanced as far as difficulty is concerned. A fair bit of grinding was required to take out the gargoyle, but that was optional.

[@jordanharrison1113]

It’s one of mine too and I was surprised at how much I breezed through it. To be honest, I think simply practicing the combat in the first room sent me up enough levels that I always felt above the curve, even if I was only a few levels higher than perhaps what’s expected (especially due to the slower encounter rate). I absolutely love it though, there’s so many different ways you can invest your skills into that game, but I guess some people aren’t into the slow animations and stuff.

[@jordanharrison1113]

@@MsShadowBlossom I practiced combat in the first room and I remember thinking it was pretty easy to level up. It never felt unbalanced though, in fact I think it’s really addictive. Especially because you can genuinely see the difference stat points make when you put them into certain characters’ skills.

[@cpthurme]

I love the FFIV Complete Collection, but I wish it was more challenging. Beautiful aesthetic.

[@AdamTheGameBoy]

Some other hard RPGs Romancing Saga 2 - You don't level up, you earn the enemies experience so they level up. The bosses are ridiculous with attacks that can 1 or 2 shot any party member or inflict statuses on the whole party, you are only able to heal, revive or remove status effects one character at a time, so battles devolve into getting slammed, healing or removing status effects with every character, getting slammed again and repeating until 45 minutes later the boss runs out of MP or your whole party gets inflicted with status effects that take away control and you basically automatically lose. The game also has permadeath. You can new game+ and that returns the enemies back to level one while you keep the breadcrumbs the FFII leveling system gives you a chance to earn. (yes, if you meet the stat level up conditions, you just have a random chance to get the stats, not a guarantee it's entirely possible you could keep leveling up the stat and not see an increase.) This means to play the game you have to grind for hours when you first start, then NG+ and maybe you can outrun the enemy power creep and get in a few attacks on the bosses healing every other turn. We aren't done the game also has a generation mechanic that has an increasing, but random chance of occurring as you play. This may drastically reduce your children's stats from yours even if you are both the same class and sometimes it will also erase your magic levels. I spent 3 generations training water/healing magic to level 30+ and on generation 4 it randomly reverted back down to level 1 and I became soft locked without the ability to heal, so i rage quit. Avoid this game, it is the second worst RPG I've played. Legrand Legacy - I just started this one, but the early game is crazy. You have to sell item drops to make money and they don't sell for much. You don't have any healing magic for quite a while, so you are relying on items to heal and they are expensive. The first, tutorial area has the gimmick of slowly draining your health. Enemies also hit really hard. That being said a few areas in, you meet a lion in a colosseum who gives you repeatable challenge battles you can grind for money, experience and healing items, so you can spend a while there making sure you have healing items for later. I wouldn't necessarily discourage you from playing this one, just treat healing items like gold early on.

[@toomanywitches]

Romancing Saga 2 is my embarassing crush of a game, the reincarnation mechanics means you have to get full party KO by design...! You are hunting 7 heroes that were betrayed by mankind when they closed the gates of hell! You are like, a reincarnating freaking army of fascist imperial human scum. I mean, the player deserves to be party killed at that point hahaha

[@stephaniec6307]

I remember seeing Hoshigami for the PS1 advertised in EGM and DESPERATELY wanting to play it because I had just finished FFT and the art style really appealed to me. Everything I've read about it since has made me thankful I never found a copy 🤦‍♀️

[@Genethagenius]

Wasn’t there a re-release on the DS or something that was supposed to be easier, but really wasn’t that much easier, lol?

[@bensilva4762]

@@Genethagenius Yes there is for DS, its not easier the fights, but the grinding is much more easy, to be honest the game COIN system is broken, just level up one coin to maximum damage, area, range, you can pretty much finish the game

[@matt2512]

I thought the FFIV DS remake was great, I'm surprised you have such negative feelings towards it! I think I enjoyed the nostalgia of it so much, it helped me overlook its flaws. Definitely a tough game, but I loved it!

[@AJGuineaPig]

Yeah, the IV DS remake was amazing, but man that game was hard as hell! And we don't talk about After Years... Edit: Oh! I didn't know you disliked the DS remake. Pfft.

[@cam9144]

"bastardized" is the perfect way to describe it

[@TheIntangibleContext]

I liked it, too. Can't say that I found it all that hard though. More difficult than the original, but nowhere near one of the hardest I've played. Maybe it was that I was just having that good a time with it.

[@spademagna2672]

I love it as well. But yea its hard as heck.

[@bubblegumxo]

I actually really enjoyed the DS version and appreciated, maybe even preferred the higher difficulty. The only flaw to me is that the battle animations are a little slow. If it had a Bravely Default style speed up option, then it would be perfect to me.

[@Tengokuchi]

I was surprised to see it on the list, let alone so high.

[@jrvaters915]

The increased difficulty in DS FFiV is what made it great! It made me appreciate using buffs and de-buffs more often. As for Hoshigami, I picked it up recently and dammit I’m determined to get through it!

[@ShadowWolfRising]

Koudelka hard as balls? Yes. Was the Idea to meld Survival Horror and RPGs a good idea that no one tried to replicate for some bizarre reason? Also yes.

[@threethymes]

Koudelka isn't hard, just tedious, with the weapon breaking feature and slow battles, but I loved it nonetheless! And defeating the Gargoyle IS tough. :D

[@xSXCBNx]

my goodness that ff4 port was a torture. it was my intro to ff and jrpgs and i thought this was the difficulty standard for the genre. thankfully that isnt the case

[@cam9144]

I grew up on FF and the 3DS remake was terrible for many reasons. The characters and enemies are dull looking, the color palette is muted, the voice acting is terrible. I much prefer the original sprites but the PSP remake is really good too.

[@trisertricordoh2127]

@@cam9144 The only good thing that came from that port was the summon animations, I'm talking about the 3ds port.

[@shadowmsh5723]

They are worth playing in the end - at least after you get through DS remakes of FF games, you can only sigh with relief when you try other titles in the series ;p

[@booboo1970]

One thing Lagoon had tho was a kick ass soundtrack.

[@SpaceCat1111]

Was going to write that myself. 👍

[@HybridAngelZero]

I have, for some reason, put off trying the 3D version of Final Fantasy IV for years and now I'm kinda glad I did. Also, Brandish got a 3D remake for PSP that fixes the jarring "shifting" problem by having the dungeon smoothly spin when you turn it. Also, unrelated, but Brandish has one of my favorite box arts for any SNES game

[@RPGeenius]

Box art is why I played it. Playing it made me stop. 🤣

[@TheIntangibleContext]

Personally, I think people put it down simply from some sense of loyalty to the original, and if it's not almost exactly the same then it sucks. I grew up with the original, too, but I enjoyed the DS version. I'd recommend playing it.

[@shadowmsh5723]

I liked DS remake of FF IV. Sure, it is annoying and tiring at times, especially during your first playthrough. But it incentivizes you to strategize and gives you more satisfaction after you beat bosses in this game.

[@johns783]

way too much nostalgia in ff4's snes sprites for me to ever play the DS version. Just ran an emulated version of the japanese game instead. if that's a similar difficulty, i didn't find it all that tough. Had all the extra skills and items and such, so i know it wasn't the NA version.

[@shadowmsh5723]

@@johns783 Well, each to their own. DS version of FF IV was actually the first FF game that I had opportunity to play. And later I tried other 3D titles of the series. So when I tried to move on to 2D titles, it was more difficult. Still, I both like 2D and 3D rpgs. It's just that after yu play a DS remake, playing original is not the same kind of experience. Even though the game is good in its own ways.

[@LeftLeaningPinko]

I'm trying to finally finish Phantasy Star 2 right now. I'm in full agreement with everything you said. I left this game for 4 years because I was so burnt out after getting that "marijuana leaf" or whatever it's called in Uzo. It's borderline impossible to play this game without treating it more like a guided tour using GameFaqs since it's so obtuse, labyrinthian, and relentlessly punishing of carelessness. That said, I love the concept of climatrol in Motvaia and the world in the game. The story is really fun too, although it's still incredibly suspect to me that Rolf calls Nei his "sister" when she dresses like that and hangs around only him constantly after he "adopted" her..........

[@StewNWT]

Alundra is one of the best action rpgs of all time. The puzzles are incredible. You must have suffered playing Crosscode if you don't like puzzles

[@dogltd6632]

I remember playing Lagoon at my cousin's and it would crash constantly before we even got to the first boss, making us lose all progress. When we finally beat him without a crash we were so happy lol

[@cam9144]

I accidently bought the cartridge of Lagoon at a thrift store, mistaking it for the SNES game Legend. When I got home and played it I was seriously confused and laughed at how sell it was. Luckily I didn't spend much on it.

[@MarcMarioMaster]

Oh, I was surprised by the seeing Koudelka on that list. I personally played that one out of sheer curiosity and most of the time I actually enjoyed the battles, puzzles and story. I must admit though that I absolutely love the battle them "Waterfall" and that one helped of course to keep things entertaining. =3 Oh, I gotta play Alundra 1 and 2 at some point again. I liked them both, too.

[@ramonvandebeek]

Me too played it last year!

[@adamperkins9381]

Lost Odyssey is quite difficult at times. Also a gd masterpiece

[@AndreaMusso99]

So Phantasy Star 2 Got in 2 different tops 10 of hard games, on two different channels, for the exact Same reason ( the dungeon stuff I mean), with the same OST in the Background, on the same day.... this coincidence is incredible :v

[@hatchattack8715]

A big shoutout to the ffiv remake, It came out about the time i was getting into SMT games so the extra difficulty was actually a welcome change.

[@The_Badcompany]

I agree with every game with the exception of Vay. I absolutely love the cuts cutscenes and animation. For me I didn't have to grind anymore than I normally do in any typical rpg.

[@kioshy15]

I'm surprised that someone's talking about Koudelka that seams like such a forgoten game wich it's such a shame since it has a great story

[@necromancermareful481]

and it's a great setup for the next entry of the series

[@brycearmstrong9370]

One thing I thought was interesting about the ending is you have to lose to the end boss to get the (in my opinion) better ending.

[@Qba86]

Also, for a game of this period it had surprisingly well written (and translated) dialogues and excellent voice acting.

[@ChronosZero86]

Don't know if you have done this yet but a couple suggestion lists, hardest 1st boss in JRPG's and hardest last boss as well. Great videos btw!

[@MirinkaiserVODs]

Very cool idea. I second that!

[@Ublerritter]

I remember reading somewhere that the original FFIV SNES release in the US was dumbed down from its original difficulty, and the DS remake is more true to its roots. It didn’t seem THAT much harder to me, but I played the SNES version when I was 6, so it had been a while. And holy shit Lagoon was so stupidly hard

[@ralph8677]

When I heard him say you didn't have to grind in FFIV, I was curious if he meant FFIV or FF"II". The version we got here in the US was an infamously easy port, whilst the Japanese original was known as being one of the hardest games in the series.

[@MortimerZabi]

@@ralph8677 Thinking the same thing. Honestly, if you know how teaching skills in the DS port worked, it actually gets much easier. I definitely didn't have to spam slow for instance. You can even set it to auto battle with all the mobs targetting Cecil (give him counter and have him block all the time), rendering most battles a joke.

[@dansmith1661]

@@ralph8677 Either version was easier than every NES FF. Who are they kidding?

[@lucasammartino3974]

I'm currently playing through my first run ever of FF IV and I'm doing it on the DS remake. I didn't find it to be too grindy and the bosses, while having a lot of HP, were not so difficult to beat. But right now I feel like I'm gonna retract everything I just said. I'm stuck at the final dungeon with a mid 60s level team and I'm having a hard time to get behind the sixth floor. The monsters also doesn't give enough EXP to make the grind worth it.

[@Parallelepiped2]

Interesting choices! I remember seeing an ad for Vay in a game magazine as a child and thinking it looked cool. Interesting to see Brain Lord on this list. I have played just the opening and didn't realise it was so difficult. I also remember playing Phantasy Star II opening and the first dungeon was very confusing...

[@Rhy2412TitanGamer]

To elaborate on EarthBound Beginnings' difficulty, It's one of the *WORST* cases of schizophrenic difficulty in RPGs & has some truly baffling design choices. The game has *numerous* difficulty spikes through the journey, as early as going to the second 'dungeon' (the zoo without the psi beam Gamma proof Franklin badge). Only 8 inventory slots per character, averaging to about 5 with weapons/armor/accessories & there's only 3 characters your party can have at max!. A *massive* overworld (actually bigger than Earth Bound). Some of the most absurdly strong common enemies in the MOTHER series statistically. & a lack of overworld teleportation until you're 75% done with the game. Throw in absurdly high encounter rates, your healer/pis-damage dealer being physically weak & slow, & Liod being physically weak & slow. It leads to many complications against high defense enemies. Also managing your PP is essential here. You also only get about 8 Psi-Stones to regenerate your PP outside of sleeping. To the game's credit, Magicant is the perfect grinding place. It has some of the best equipment & encourages the grind for Magic Coins, H20 Pendants (halves fire-damage, making them very useful against enemies that blow up) & Boomerangs (the second strongest weapon for Liod, Ana, & Ninten).

[@dansmith1661]

You get more Psi-Stones than that, but the game is so terrible and poorly balanced with everything except for one thing. It is a NES game, so encounters are high and enemies are hard. The problem is your character level ups are garbage unless you have temporary members to serve as a buffer, who get 5 points in each stat, while Loid gets around 1 and cannot fight without enemy drops. Why can't they be the chosen ones? Have fun grinding flamethrowers with your trash party. No wonder it never made the transition overseas. Early on, you have one character who can't do anything under certain ailments, like turbo asthma. Soon as a car blows exhaust, Ninten is effectively dead, so you might as well reset. A different kind of road to Rhone. Game testing is for noobs. This is just random encounters and you have to move through a huge map while hoping you can run from every vehicle encounter. At the end of the game, the lopsided difficulty finally broke me and I turned on the level cheats. I still got wrecked on Mt.Itoi and ran from battles. The maps are absolutely massive and I like it for all the wrong reasons. I also went into the wrong dungeon, make a guess which. The enemies were so powerful, but the difficulty was so FUBAR'd it seemed like just another spike. I used up almost all the stones I had and reached the top. Turns out, it was the later dungeon I was supposed to be in and with another member, the useless Loid. The dungeon I was supposed to be in was the nearby dungeon that was the exact same tileset and I was overleveled for that one. Loid was needed to do stuff to finish the second, much harder factory dungeon and that new character with bad stats got stomped the whole game.

[@Vinasear]

Looks like I made the right choice in picking up FF4 for the PSP. Couldn't complete the slog that was the after years though.

[@davidvinc]

Yeah, what a letdown The After Years was.

[@austa10]

I played the DS version and the grind is real in that game. FF III DS is a hell of a grind and very hard in my opinion, but FFIV DS puts it to shame. I got to the final dungeon and gave up because the enemies are much more powerful than the ps1 version I had played before. Love the game, but the DS version made it unnecessarily difficult.

[@julien2983]

I adore Koudelka, one of the most unique unknown gems on the playstation. I think the weapon durability was an attempt to place a resource scarcity pressure on the player like in other survival horror games of the time. I get so hyped when people talk about it, thanks David! Still waiting for a "top 10 tips to grow incredible pecs" video ;)

[@AntonioCunningham]

*Thank you* for mentioning the number 3 pick. That was the first game I rage quit because the tedious puzzles. The platforming was hard enough, but the puzzles required zero errors. As much as I liked the gameplay and story progression in that game, the puzzles killed it for me.

[@bustergundo516]

I liked Koudelka a lot. I also enjoyed Hoshigami on DS. Glad to see they both get some recognition.

[@edgeninja]

PSOII is one of the worst RPGs I've ever played. All of the dungeons play like some kind of labyrinthine fever dream where everything looks identical and you have no goddam idea where you're supposed to go.

[@gavinlucas9761]

Final Fantasy 4 DS was the first FF game I have ever completed... and man I had no idea this was meant to be the harder games.

[@TheBrutalSax]

Damn I can just imagine you jumped into FF7 or something and expected a great deal of pain only to realize you’re constantly a powerhouse

[@gavinlucas9761]

@@TheBrutalSax I've actually played FF7 before FF4 and even 10 but I was only able to make it as far as the final dungeon, but after beating FF4 I would finish FF7 and 10 eminently after. But yeah a lot off games I played after that where easy due to this being my first FF game to beat.

[@TheBrutalSax]

Gavin Lucas yeah I still gotta play the DS remake of 4, only version of 4 I played is the one titled “FF2” and it’s brain dead easy cause they simplified the hell out of it for America

[@gavinlucas9761]

@@TheBrutalSax Funny how the US version is considered too easy, while the DS is too hard, which is why much like in FF3 on the DS, I much prefer the original difficulty on there original systems, though I played the fan retranslation since It keeps the original difficulty.

[@TheCmurley131]

Phantasy Star II: encountered 3 "Blaster" enemies. Ambushed. All 3 use a "hit all" laser attack and crit. Game Over (even if over-leveled at max HP). I'll never forget that! I did finally replay and beat it in 2018 but I didn't enjoy most of it and it was purely just to defeat something from my childhood I could never do back then :)

[@EtienneTC]

I’m in the alundra cult. I think it’s better than Zelda, and one of the best action rpgs ever made. story is fantastic too 😍

[@thomaspolaino3188]

Agreed. It's my favorite. It's like A Link To The Past for grown ups.

[@ravelordneato4107]

i absolutely LOVED Alundra. and i don't think it's **that** hard, except for two areas that when i was a kid blocked me for weeks. The crypt's very first puzzle with the 5 tombs, and the monkey forest's pathway maze, with the three stone blocks and switches that you had to reach from a lot of different places inside the caves...only to discover when you press them that yes, the block you wanted to lower DID lower....and the other two rose, setting you back to square 1. hellish puzzle

[@NeoLotex]

I haven't played most of these games, because I took a break from consoles from somewhere after Ocarina of Time to about mid 2017 and PS4 pro. It way tough at times (once you get to the moon with the sorceress enemies) but I didn't think so many people would think that hard. I always found the original SNes version the hardest, but it's also been quite a while since I played it the last time, so it might be a childhood thing.

[@iCABALi]

FFIV is my favourite RPG, and one of my favourite games of all times but one playthrough of the DS version was enough for me. I don't mind grinding in JRPGs, but when the originals didn't require much of it, and had quicker battles it's not something I enjoy.

[@DHamblen]

Another great list, I’ve played 7 of these games and can easily agree with wanting to give up on them, absolutely insane levels of difficulty. But I have to stand up for “Mother”. I played Earthbound and loved the quirkinesses of the game, and the silly enemies, and a great story. Mother, as I remember, was from the same developer, but more of a “first try” into making video games. Maybe I was too forgiving, but it had the same silly enemies and crazy storyline that Earthbound had, so I had fun with it.

[@Presca1]

I've played and won some hard RPGs, Japanese included - also Phantasy Star II, one of my fave. But the hardest RPG I remember grinding on was the Might & Magic for NES. Holy!

[@VegaNCalleDQuesT]

Alundra! So true ! The most difficult and frustrating. But you just can’t stop. Can’t remember is it’s on your first but SAGA FRONTIER on Ps1.

[@SpaceCat1111]

I got Hoshigami as a teen, and I was super excited because I thought "yay, more FFT!" Which was my favorite game at the time, and still is high in my list. I returned it the next day...

[@charlesbeerguy474]

I was typing a comment about Phantasy Star II's packed-in dungeon maps when you mentioned it. The game is so much more pleasant (and makes so much more sense) when you've got them all laid out in front of you.

[@coffybloffy4566]

Woho! Alundra hit the list!!! The puzzles are so god damn Hard!!! i was stuck in Lars crypt for 1 year before fighting the boss lol.

[@KoLAddict]

Lagoon and Phantasy Star 2 were the big games I didn't know how weren't in your first list. Lagoon is so clunky, and even if you get to the final boss, you can't kill it if you don't have a weapon the game never tells you about. Phantasy Star 2, the dungeons like you said. Also, there being no indication that you have party members waiting for you at your house. Now I love Phantasy Star 2, and I enjoy Lagoon, but they are brutal.

[@nobodyspecial115]

I'm surprised Breath of Fire 5 Dragon Quarter hasn't made one of these list.. has to be one of the hardest RPG's ever

[@diesosax]

Koudelka still holds a special place in my heart ❤️

[@Derikregan]

Just finished Alundra last week on the vita for the 4th time in my life I think. Some puzzles are really a hot mess but the overall gameplay and story is good enough.

[@thomaspolaino3188]

Ya, it's my favorite game of all time. I like the difficulty. It makes seeing the ending an accomplishment, rather than an inevitability.

[@KrsJin]

I think Hoshigami is the only JRPG I quit mostly due to difficulty. Comforted by seeing this on the list haha.

[@Rhy2412TitanGamer]

David, I also nominate Ninten from EarthBound Beginnings as one of the most powerful RPG characters. Why? Simple. Ninten's only real weaknesses are being locked to physical damage, not learning offensive PSI, & learning his support PSI with reasonable gaps to keep him from being overpowered (although it would even the odds in EB0). Aside from those (& the annoying habit of the game not giving your characters weapons that deserve to be decent quality & accessible), Ninten is just NEVER not putting in serious work throughout the entirety of the game. Ninten has the 2nd highest HP, attack, defense, & speed growths with reasonable magic stats & PP growth. He learns the most support PSI & isn't locked into guarding against powerful foes due to his high physical stats. 4th-D Slip is one of the most useful PSI techniques alongside teleport + lifeup/healing + buff PSI. Ask yourself this question. Could you imagine playing the game without Ninten?

[@davidvinc]

I agree, but I specifically don't include main characters in those lists.

[@Rhy2412TitanGamer]

@@davidvinc Man, considering how overwhelming most can quickly become, Ninten really does glue your team together. Well, What about EVE the robot? That thing is completely broken, even by EB0 standards.

[@rman0099]

FFIV DS restored the JP difficulty level. It was talked about quite a bit upon its release in articles and online. When IV was coming to the west Square thought it would be too hard for the US market and dumbed it down to a more forgiving difficulty level. I was excited for a harder version fo IV and never thought the DS version was all that bad.

[@Lu15d4]

Mother was my second Rpg I ever played back in summer 2019 lol

[@GodBroly]

I’m guessing undertale was the first which lead to mother?

[@Lu15d4]

@@GodBroly first Earthbound, then Mother

[@civoreb]

Good thing there are like 300+ more for you to try lol

[@Lu15d4]

@@civoreb now the only non-rpg game I played for a year is Kirby's adventure lol

[@loscadu]

I feel so recognized by you putting Brainlord on here, thanks David.

[@haven1001001]

if the disorienting turning is your biggest gripe with brandish the game actually got a remake call brandish the dark revenant which has an actual animation for turning, it turns out to be a pretty decent grid based dungeon crawler at that point. also nice list mate there was even a game I haven't heard of in there I look forward to looking at the other ones you've put out

[@lukewahlberg2154]

I felt heartbroken by the FF4 port. The original was my first JRPG and I had hopes like you. What the hell were they thinking? I remember back before emulators got destroyed by the console company greed, I tried Brainlord and Lagoon....to say I was disappointed and frustrated is an understatement. I remember renting Hoshigami when I was in middle school because it looked cool, but holy hell. I still hold that Paladin's Quest, for the unfamiliar gamer, is the most challenging game I've invested any amount of time into. HP as MP? Obscene encounter rates of up to 24 enemies? Loose targeting? Limited healing resources between towns? Can't change equipment on guest characters? Multiple difficulty spikes without warning? Oh yeah...that's how Enix used to treat us all....and we kept giving them money. No wonder we all turned out this way!

[@AdversaryOne]

Lmao I played Brandish for the first time this weekend and thought I was teleporting to a new area each time I turned or the rom was glitched. I was so confused. I would see this in the video store as a kid and always loved the box art. Glad I listened to my instincts when looking at the back of the box.

[@Cheerios4u98]

This made me very glad that I played the easier Steam version of FF4 3D instead of the DS one. I loved it on Steam! Weird because I thought FF3 was great on the DS.

[@lukewahlberg2154]

I only ever got to emulate FF3 for NES, and I didn't have too many problems with it once I figured out the job system, but I got it on Steam and found that the leveling and stat growth was extremely flawed....and the difficulty seemed out of place. I suffered where I didn't have issues in the original and glazed over parts that gave me nightmares. Then of course, getting to the end having no trouble at all only to be wiped out in a single hit by one of the bosses really bit me, considering everyone had death protection...

[@AzraelNewtype0079]

The thing with Lagoon is that it's a port of an X68k game that's basically a Ys clone, including bump combat. Why they added an attack button but didn't change anything else about the attack mechanics to compensate is a question for the ages. There is a translation patch for the original if you're ever interested in seeing how it was intended to be played. I'm a little surprised by the number of commenters who seem to know about FFIV Easy Type, but seem to think the DS version is just the original in 3D. It's not. I don't think it's THAT hard, but it's certainly a fair bit more obnoxious than the SFC original or the PSP graphical remake.

[@CaptainLeDoosh]

Heya david! On Cold Steel 3, how were you able to get the footage for the final dungeon and boss?? I tried both PS4 and computer but it says it’s blocked scenes

[@davidvinc]

I don't entirely remember, but I don't use my ps4 to record, I use elgato software and I don't think I had any problems with it.

[@SuiteLifeofDioBrando]

Never beat any of these games yet.

[@EshaneDetroit]

Lagoon was actually really good. I encourage you to go back to it, the end is worth the pain. It was super hard, I'll admit. I did beat it back when I was 12 or so (I'm 35 now), but omg...it was a challenge. Also, look into Dark Wizard for the Sega CD. GG

[@praetorxyn]

Hey, I enjoyed the difficulty of Final Fantasy IV DS, but then it's my favorite Final Fantasy (as it was my first), and I played through the Japanese "Hard Type" release loads of times. I honestly don't remember it being hard, I didn't learn that it had a reputation for difficulty I'd till I'd went through NG+2 to max out everyone.

[@mikedl1105]

FFII (IV) on SNES: I chose to grind for 40 hours to max out all my characters at level 99 and rock the final battle FFIV on DS: I had to grind for 40 hours just barely survive the final battle

[@rudidellama3718]

I'm pretty sure that Vay unbalanced difficulty is working design fault, I believe that Lunar have the same problem

[@rudidellama3718]

There's some fans making a patch(you can already download, I think it just need a little polish) that"unworking" design thoses games at least on the gameplay part, the translation is another problem all together

[@thomaspolaino3188]

Yup. They fucked Vay up bad.

[@danbe6280]

Hi David, would you consider a let's play of Monster Hunter Stories 1? it's an jrpg with turn based combat, and the 2nd part is going to be released for switch the next year.

[@supermustachepika]

Alundra was one of the first games I got for my PlayStation and it had some hair pulling moments and even got stuck at one time due to not being able to figure out some puzzles. Went back to it a few years after that starting over and was able to beat it. What stinks about the game is that you can miss items/weapons if you're not careful. First time playing I missed the wind tome which if you miss you can never get back..

[@unLuckyFetus]

Hey David nice upload. Looking forward to your next LP series. I have my fingers crossed for Dragon Quest V or Dragon Quest 8. I also seen you mention Fell Seal. Either way, I'm excited to see whatever you play next!

[@dakotadoyle7573]

Final Fantasy 4's DS Port also removed all the bonus dungeons and the option to change party members that were in other ports of the game

[@JCLegendary]

I really enjoyed the PSP remake of Brandish, even if the dungeon design was ball-busting. I really need to play the PC-98 fan translation of Brandish 2 some day.

[@hipsterimagestudios6349]

I didnt think anyone remembered Hoshigami. I loved tactics as a kid and got really hyped for that game only to be left hopeless. that game kicked by butt. FF4 ds I believe used the psx version difficulty. The psx version was balanced as the hard mode for the original japanesse version and the SNES English version was balanced as easy mode which is why the difficulty is so out of whack.

[@valiantparagonvideos2383]

FFIV belongs on this list. It's very difficult. However, I love it. It's definitely not the first version of FFIV you should play. "You definitely have to give your party good augments and use good strategies to avoid grinding, but it's also definitely possible, even if there' sa section in the middle of the game (Like, say, Zot through Lugae or so) that's insane and I had to rig up a set up to have Cecil and Rosa Ultima nuke Barbariccia to get through. but yeah, possible. But I think if you love FFIV but want a hard version, it's a fantastic version that everyone should play.

[@tomderry7295]

I love BrainLord. I didn’t think it was that hard. Lots of fun! Alundra, good heavens what a tough game. Never finished it.

[@johntracy72]

I love Brainlord. It's very challenging but I find it fun.

[@nuannathan5446]

Hey david, I saw some of your videos regarding strategy JRPGS, and never once did you mention the Langrisser series. Did you ever play it? It is mostly Japan exclusive, but there are some fan translations out there. Langrisser 1 was localized here known as Warsong for the Sega Genesis Langrisser 2, there is a fan translation for both the original Sega Genesis, and for the Super Nintendo port, known as Der Langrisser with multiple story lines and endings (Definitely play this one) Langrisser 4, there is a fan translation for the Playstation port, known as Langrisser Final Edition containing both Langrisser 4 and 5 (Only 4 was translated though) It is probably the best strategy JRPG series I have ever played.

[@Qba86]

Saga Frontier 2 - the last chapter required two weeks of real-time mindless grinding to even stand a chance agains the final baddie...

[@Maleketh42]

Good lord. I owned Hoshigami, and I'd entirely forgotten about it until I watched this video. I don't generally blot games out of my memory, but Hoshigami... Words just don't do it justice.

[@toryficarola]

8:40 Nice AVGN catch phrase thrown in there. ;)

[@SBaby]

9:01 - Brandish is so annoying. Remember how those old RPGs used to have first-person dungeons? Imagine a game with those types of dungeon controls, but from a top-down perspective. Your character can only face up, and when you turn, the dungeon turns, not the character. It really is disorienting, and I have no idea why they thought this was a good idea. It wouldn't be so bad if there was some animation to show you where things were moving to every time you turned the map, but there isn't any. It's just BAM! East! BAM! South!

[@RTDArtist]

I'm glad i wasn't the only one to know that lagoon, alundra, (and it's sequel don't ask.), and brandish were hard. (Oh and i've played Hoshigami it's pretty hard but the DS version of Hoshigami is much more tolerable with a difficulty setting with hard as the same as the PS version. Though i really hate the magic system so much.

[@2ero2nin3]

if you ever run out of ideas for these videos; i'd love to see some top10 music lists. like best battle-, dungeon-, overworld-, character-themes etc 🙂🎶

[@sneakyskunk1]

Lagoon is the epic tale of one man attempting to conquer the forces of evil armed only with a butter knife. A dull butter knife.

[@z.i.r.3120]

I received FFIV DS as a birthday gift with my DSlite. I... I remember really enjoying it. (Have a vague memory of getting bored/frustrated on the moon tho) 🤭😳

[@WhiteFangofWar]

Hoshigami is one of the only games I've ever given up on due to difficulty. I think it was the second fight in the game. Since you're mainly talking about games that are unfairly hard due to unrefined mechanics, Final Fantasy Legend/SaGa. Insane encounter rate, large and powerful enemy groups in every encounter, long, samey dungeons, imbalanced classes, and if a character dies three times they're gone forever.

[@PhantomBlackStar]

I Like the difficulty on Final Fantasy 4 (3D) DS/Mobile, Mobile version has Hard mode. I always find FF4 (SuperNES, PS1, GBA, PSP) on the easy side, with a few difficulty spikes if un-prepared (in me opinion) and The Final area was intense , the way it should be lol.

[@zephyrzeus5500]

Hoshigami is one of my top 5 best turn based strategy, in my experience, it is not that difficult if you know what you are doing, I can grind in the first tower of trial with the right set up, and I can be so OP after I get my first Forbidden Coinfeigm(magic). Resonance of fate is more difficult than Hoshigami based on my experience.

[@Sweetestsadist]

Nice to see an RPG review calling out Phantasy Star 2. That series peaked at playable and that wasn't the beloved part 2. It was part 4.

[@quaasar1247]

Every time I try to play Koudelka, I die in the beginning from the three-headed zombie thing hanging off the ceiling and quit.

[@TheAjaiRaj]

FF4 REMAKE! Dear god. The game was hard to begin with, but in this version, even with grinding a solid 10 levels per area, I was getting wiped out by random encounters on the reg by the time I reached the Tower of Babel. Quite a shame, as I dug the updated graphics and really wanted to get to the endgame to see the moon in (relatively) glorious 3D.

[@TheAjaiRaj]

@Firion Al'Hade That fight was terrible! I don't remember how I got past it but I do remember having to watch the cutscene before over and over again.

[@tiagocosmos]

as someone who played Phantasy Star II, i can say, playing that game is an exercise in pure masochism more than anything else.

[@Ahairball]

Wow, my dyslexia. I remember when Hoshigami came out, and for this whole time I thought the subtitle was *Running* Blue Earth.

[@SuperNintendoZach]

Your videos are so informative!

[@Chelaxim]

I loved the remake of FFIV. The original is one of the easiest games in the easiest franchise in the easiest genres of games. It was the 5th time it was released at the time so I appreciate them turning up the difficulty.