Top 10 Mixed Skills and Abilities in D&D 5e

[@chastermief839]

4:48 this is exactly how Blades in the Dark is played and it's one of my favorite things conceptually about the game. it completely removes the hours of deliberation and planning and prepwork that a typically D&D party would put into a plan. great idea to insert it in your 5e games.

[@ZipperonDisney]

Gotta look into that!

[@qarsiseer]

It’s very cool and reading it made me rethink how I use ability checks. I’ll note however, in Blades, you can make a retroactive check with any of the skills, but you need to spend a resource (stress). You could rule for example that players can use inspiration to trigger a flashback.

[@swaghauler8334]

This is similar to the original Proficiency systems that appeared in Dragon Magazine back in the '80s. The "proficiency" was NOT linked to an Attribute but rather the DM PICKED the appropriate Attribute based on HOW the player described their use of that Proficiency in that situation. So Climbing might involve using your STR, CON, & DEX bonuses (and penalties) to actually climb while fabricating Climbing gear (Prussic Knots, Pitons, and Ascenders) would require you to use INT & WIS bonuses to make or improvise the item you need. In 5e, you can just add any Attribute Bonuses (or penalties) to the test for a basic Proficiency. A Proficiency that was tied to a Class Ability (like the Ranger's Survival Skills or a Thief's Climbing Skill) would be given an added bonus. In 5e, you could use the standard Proficiency Bonus for this. It would also level up as the Character leveled up. This selective use of the 5e Proficiency Bonus could be the defining characteristic between a basic Proficiency like climbing, sneaking, or Perception that anyone can do and a class Skill or special Proficiency that is given to certain Classes. A simple house rule for the Unskilled use of a Proficiency (such as trying to swim when you don't know how to) would entail an increase in the Difficulty Level from a skilled user's as well as a -2 to the die roll (with a person possessing a Basic Proficiency having no penalty). The character could add any Attribute bonuses the DM says are applicable to the Test as well. Basic Proficiencies would also not "advance" like Class Skills/Proficiencies either. Only increases in Attribute Bonuses would apply as you advanced.

[@ZipperonDisney]

Yeah, I like the old percent chance stuff they did too with other skills

[@swaghauler8334]

@@ZipperonDisney Considering how easy it is to convert Percentile to a D20 roll (simply divide the Percentile chance by 5 for those of us who are "math-challenged"), I always wondered WHY TSR didn't do that as well? AD&D really needed a "universal mechanic" for all the non-combat stuff.

[@zinv08]

We play using Arcana with Wisdom or Charisma if that's what the character's way of spellcasting.

[@ZipperonDisney]

Does it apply to magical knowledge or just intuitions about what a magic effect is?

[@zinv08]

More of intuition and understanding of how magic works and showing their overall prowess aside from actually casting spells.

[@TaberIV]

I LOVE Charisma (Stealth) to hide in a crowd!

[@TaberIV]

I could see a wood elf who has lived in the forest her whole life being completely hidden amoung the trees, but sticking out in busy streets like a sore thumb. Meanwhile the Bard that isn't surpassingly agile can just blend into a group of people like he was never there.

[@Stuugie.]

I would personally do a charisma performance check to act lime you belong in the crowd, with bonuses for disguises either magical or non magical

[@ZipperonDisney]

YES! That's exactly what I'm thinking :)

[@oOPPHOo]

Had a changeling glamour bard with stealth expertise use charisma stealth. I like it. Some honorable mentions * Dexterity (intimidation).* Ever seen Aliens and Bishop playing the knife game? Put in a little rhyming song about liars losing fingers and you'll have made a frightening impression on your target and entertained your table for the night... and or lost a finger of your own. I also like intelligence for a Sherlock Holmes style deductive analysis of a target that just leaves them frightened. "I know you life story better than you do, so you might as well spill your the secrets you're hiding before I figure out those too. *Intelligence (medicine).* This one is obvious. Intelligence is knowledge and logic. I like wisdom being relevant for fieldwork and actually tending to a patient, but some times you need to know what know the meaning behind rare symptoms. Might undercut intelligence nature a bit more than it already is, but that's where we can use the XGtE rules to say that if you have two proficiencies that both apply, you can roll with advantage. If you throw in herbalism atop it all, that's just an automatic success depending on the DC. One thing I hope people keep in mind is that you can often make a case that a specific check should involve multiple abilities but that this shouldn't necessarily mean you can just pick and choose. Consider the above medicine check. Maybe it's less about knowing the symptoms and more about simply spotting them. Even though you obviously have to know them first, that's what proficiency accounts for.

[@NordRonnoc]

In a D&D one shot set in Mass Effect I ran as a DM, I had one of the players roll a Medicine check with their Charisma modifier since they're giving a couple patrons at the bar a lecture.

[@CruelLi0n]

If you like the concept of Intelligence (Stealth) checks, you might enjoy the PbtA game "Blades In The Dark"

[@ZipperonDisney]

Will do 😁

[@simum1]

My favorite is Strength(Acrobatics) for parkour stuff

[@ZipperonDisney]

Nice one! I think of monks doing crazy stunts gracefully

[@qarsiseer]

I’ve been using these kind of rules for awhile now, but I’ve consistently noticed I run into a problem: 5e’s character sheet. Having the skill list that explicitly ties skills to abilities really stifles creativity. What we need is a character sheet with a blank space to write in your skills. Let’s be honest, if you’re not proficient in a skill, you don’t need to see it. The issue is I’ve only found one such character sheet in all my browsing (its one of the alternate official sheets) but its a little out there. Have you considered making a proficiency die character sheet and sticking it in the back of Galder’s Gazeteer? Along with a short section in the book, it would really make these rules easier to use.

[@ZipperonDisney]

YES! I make custom sheets all the time just for this reason!! If there is space, I'm gonna try and squeeze in a character sheet.

[@ZipperonDisney]

Here are some examples: drive.google.com/file/d/1OzZWY363SmKTX-yY2FWdULjkp-ImVTSF/view?usp=sharing

[@qarsiseer]

@@ZipperonDisney How do you typically make custom sheets? I'm about to do so myself with an old piece of software but I'm definitely looking for more options.

[@ZipperonDisney]

@@qarsiseer it's just MS word in columns with bookman and mrs evans font

[@qarsiseer]

@@ZipperonDisney Ahh, I do love my Microsoft Word character sheets (I was big proud of the pregens I made for a pf2 one shot), though they aren't super great for players using long term I think haha.

[@luizarraes1711]

Really useful as usual. It's always a joy to watch your videos.

[@ZipperonDisney]

Thank you 😁😁

[@Unahim]

Wisdom (Deception) seems to infringe a lot on Insight as a whole. After all, Insight is literally about understanding a person and what makes them tick. There is a definitive trend in P&P games that skills and abilities that can be used to actively accomplish a goal (Deception) are more useful and project more power than those that provide information (Insight). By letting Deception do things that Insight normally does, we're even further transferring power from the already less exciting Insight to the more exciting Deception... especially since Insight is often the "defensive" form of Deception.

[@ZipperonDisney]

I'm not really gonna disagree, because I can easily see myself feeling the same way. But all the same I'm kind of fond of the idea of a "special case" of insight that allows you to use your knack for lying

[@TaberIV]

@@ZipperonDisney though, I think how you mention it as a multistage ability check makes a lot of sense. If one party member gathered what the NPC wants to hear then passes that secret to the Bard who can really sell the lie I think everyone walks away feeling really awesome.

[@SkepticalCaveman]

@@TaberIV Yes, two checks can cover that. First an insight check, that if successful will give an advantage on the deception roll. Advantage is the best way to solve it in my opinion, instead of using a different ability in this case, because even if you can read the person well doesn't mean that you can mask your sly smile while deceiving.

[@TaberIV]

@@SkepticalCaveman that does make more sense, and then you could feed the information to the other party member too, depending on the situation. It's like using the help action, but with an entirely different skill to help. That's an interesting idea

[@SkepticalCaveman]

@@TaberIV Yes, mixed ability help action is a great idea. An absurd example is a wizard and a barbarian solving a giant knot together. The wizard knows how to solve it but is to weak physically, so the barbarian has to use strength while the wizard use intelligence.

[@twilightgardenspresentatio6384]

Fantastic, instantly rewatchable video content

[@Sugbaable]

Instead of swapping out you could sometimes add the alternative ability modifier as a circumstance bonus

[@ZipperonDisney]

Heck yes, like PF2!

[@michaelminugh5357]

I love mixing skills and stats, and GMs should really be attentive to what players say and apply the correct mix, this way players know that way they say and do matter rather than just doing the same-old-same-old.

[@ZipperonDisney]

I bring that up in the Prof. Dice video too! That the players describe their actions, and can even advocate why a skill might apply.

[@heyitsMattyP]

Strength (Animal Handling) for a homebrew dog walker Ranger subclass :)

[@ZipperonDisney]

You don't just use the Force like the Dog Whisperer?

[@heyitsMattyP]

@@ZipperonDisney I don't like to min max

[@jamesaolsen1196]

This little light o' miiiiiine!!!! I'm gonna let it shiiiiine!!!

[@jthompson7175]

Picking someone's pocket with Mage Hand - Slight of Hand using the appropriate casting ability.

[@ZipperonDisney]

Did you see the poll I took on that? 😎

[@jthompson7175]

@@ZipperonDisney I actually didn't. Guess great minds think alike.

[@ninthlevelcantrip799]

Amped for Galdurs! +1 for banjo outro, should be standard. :D

[@ZipperonDisney]

mandolin lol, banjo was in the alignment video :)

[@ninthlevelcantrip799]

@@ZipperonDisney multi-talented! I am extra impressed.

[@mistergoats4380]

Excellent video. As always

[@ZipperonDisney]

Glad you liked it! Plz share!

[@kalleendo7577]

This is eye opening 👍

[@jescapnut2003]

Just found your channel - wondering if you can do a top 10 multiclass list incl best RP / mechanic synergy + best dip levels and why. Thanks!

[@ZipperonDisney]

I might! Top 10 lists are my usual gig, but there is not reason not to :)

[@TaberIV]

Fighter and monk are the two best 1 level dips by far, imo

[@SrTupac]

Hi! I know this is an old video and all but I can't find any good examples about the math behind this. For example, if I want to use the example given by the Player's Manual: Strenght(Intimidation) and let's suppose I have +3 in strenght and +1 in intimidation, my check is going to be +4 in total? Or do I have to add my proficiency bonus (+2) making my check +5? Sorry, I don't know how to explain myself better.

[@ZipperonDisney]

You add your ability mod and your prof bonus if proficient in the skill. (Your intimidation shows up as +1 because it's adding your CHA mod and your prof bonus)

[@ForTheGoldenOak]

As someone studying rhetorics I wanna stress, that real classic rhetorics (not the negative modern way american philosophy looks at it) uses ideally lots of logical arguments. Ofc emotional manipulation _can_ play a role, but as rhetoricans we learn not to manipulate, bc lies and propaganda are not only bad, but also proof over a long time that you can't be trusted. So I just wanna say that saying that intelligence can't be used to persuade someone with rethorics is a very american way of thinking. In classical rhetorics, persuarsion is actually our main goal! :) (if you wanna know stuff about being a student of rhetorics, ask me anything) :)

[@ZipperonDisney]

yeah, I know classical rhetoric (I listed it in the video!), but the word 'rhetoric' can also just mean bombastic language.

[@ForTheGoldenOak]

@@ZipperonDisney I didn't realize, you're right! In germany rhetorics only means classical, which leads to me being a little sensible to the "bombastic language" interpretation (even tho that is what it means in english). It's so cool that you answered, you give really great tips and I learned a lot, I am very happy I found you :) Also I hope I didn't come of rude, english isn't my first language :)

[@ZipperonDisney]

@@ForTheGoldenOak Not at all! I'd say in American English 'rhetoric' is almost exclusively used to describe the language or wording of an argument. The other use is archaic and only used in a traditional environment (e.g. a professor of rhetoric at Boston College)

[@ToasterNipps]

Sometimes I will do Con survival checks, especially if it's a barbarian or someone who lives off the land. I run it as your ability to having a lot of experience living off the land or something of that nature.

[@ZipperonDisney]

Ooooo I like that!!

[@ToasterNipps]

@@ZipperonDisney yeah it's too bad survival checks are not used very often 😂 guess it depends on the campaign