Top 10 Muppet Lore Inconsistencies

[@RealKillianTube]

I just noticed the nastiest audio pop of all time literally 4 seconds in :) It's only gonna get better from here, I swear.

[@chiebukachibee-zoraedu]

siblings can't be friends?

[@RealKillianTube]

NO 😡 there is an update on this entry coming in the sequel though 🤪

[@stitch-bricks]

@@RealKillianTube where is the sequel 😭

[@RealKillianTube]

Sonic 2 bonus video coming soon head ahh

[@natalie_sipes]

I will say, the real reason Scooter wasn’t seen much in Muppets Tonight (and why Clifford hosted) was due to Richard Hunt’s untimely death. Scooter didn’t get a new permanent puppeteer until the early 2000s, I believe, and he wasn’t seen much of the 90s. :( In terms of lore, though, it’s super interesting why Kermit or whoever would’ve chose Clifford instead of Scooter to host!

[@Wendy_O._Koopa]

You need to watch the first episode of Muppets Tonight, because they address this point exactly. To make a long story short Clifford is given the job as a complete fluke.

[@zachhaumesser2092]

Clifford was the only one in the Room when Kermit asked who’s going to host the show? Everyone ran out, but Clifford was busy on his phone and got stuck with the job.

[@KairuHakubi]

I have always said.. if anyone but Jim had died first, the pattern would have been established: retire the characters, make new ones, move on. But you can't just do that with *Kermit.* And he had already been training Steve to take over so he could have more time to work on the company, so... it felt like the thing to do, and it was. But it ruined the precedent going forward, so that they kept on replacing and replacing people, and now it's a Ship of Feceus. F... Feces-us. Uh..

[@Animated_Lunch]

The Muppet Theatre ownership is complicated further by “It’s a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie” (2002). In a deleted scene Kermit says Scooter’s uncle died and Kermit inherited the building, but the script writer refutes this.

[@RealKillianTube]

Scooter mentions it too in the actual movie! I lost my mind. Definitely covering that in the follow up video. Thank you!

[@otaking3582]

Also, the climax involved the theater being designated as a historical landmark by the state, thus protecting it from demolition. The entire plot of the 2011 movie should be null and void.

[@alisachamoy225]

So first of all: Can a frog even enter into a binding contract? Also, after they found oil under the theatre in episode 410, J.P. sold the mining rights to the "Guest Star's Dressing Room" so wouldn't the owner of the dressing room (or that entity) itself be the only one who could enter into that contract?

[@bensakschek615]

​@otaking3582 I have two theories about that. Theory 1. Tex Richman bribed the government to have the Muppet Theater's historical landmark status revoked. Theory 2: It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie is non-cannon.

[@zachhaumesser2092]

@@bensakschek615 also remember in it’s a very merry Muppet Christmas movie the theater is in New York City whereas in the Muppets 2011 film the theater is in Los Angeles.

[@nothingrhymeswithorange5294]

You know what isn't an inconsistency? In Muppets Tonight, season one episode five, Bobo falls in love Cindy Crawford and at the end she reciprocates the feelings. Much, much later in the Muppets 2015, a subplot in an early episode sees Bobo struggling to sell Girl Scout cookies for his daughter... His daughter... The logical conclusion to all this is that Bobo hitched Cindy Crawford and they had a kid.

[@RealKillianTube]

The timeline lines up!!!

[@NorthSutherland]

Who says he's married?

[@mrcritical6751]

Wait is the daughter a human or a bear, cause if it’s the latter that means in-universe Cindy Crawford pushed a bear out

[@zomzomino]

​@@mrcritical6751manbear

[@fabianshedenhelm2986]

I'm scared for what their kid looks like

[@NorthSutherland]

5:43 The "rich and famous" contract has nothing do with the Muppet Theater. It's part of the Muppet Movie universe (the story of how they "more or less" first met), with other films being either productions from that universe or part of their real-life Hollywood careers. Our main Muppets bounced from Sam & Friends, to the Ed Sullivan show (with Kermit also on Sesame Street), to various specials and pilots, to the Muppet Show proper and the start of their movie careers, to other specials and MuppeTelevision, to Muppets Tonight, and so on. In short, the Muppets didn't become Hollywood stars by first meeting each other on Kermit's cross-country road trip, the theater Muppets had a close relationship with Jim Henson who pulls some strings to kickstart their movie careers, after the Muppet Show became popular enough. It's also why they had their Hollywood special which seems to continue from the Muppet Show. In fact, past guest stars like Liberace and Rita Moreno (who Animal knows very well) are also in attendance.

[@richardwilliamshare]

Was just gonna hop into the comments to say basically this!

[@aaronsarchive82]

But if The Muppet Movie was "approximately how they got started," then it's a flimsy part of the canon, but canon nonetheless. In real world interviews, Kermit has mentioned his swamp quite a bit.

[@ryko1478]

With the whole "movie inside movie" thing, literally every Muppet Movie is like that, the original Mippet Movie starts with them in a theater, the Great Muppet Caper's opening musical number is saying to the audience that they're doing a movie, Muppets most wanted starts revealing that the audience in the previous movie were extras

[@FigmentJedi]

Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie, which the 2011 movie recycled the "Evil capitalist tries to acquire the Muppet Theater and demolish it" plot from reveals that Scooter's Uncle died and left the Muppets with a ton of debt in a deleted scene, resulting in their current predicament.

[@GinaLynnGuesby]

My husband has a comment on your video: "Check out the original script for Muppets from Space. Gonzo isn't an alien in the original script. The aliens just admired him so much they modeled their society after him."

[@randomfandomplaylists4438]

I’ve recently started watching the 1976 series, & there’s an inconsistency that you missed. Scooter’s 1st appearance is actually in episode 1, but he doesn’t actually start being a Gofer until he’s re-introduced in episode 6

[@RealKillianTube]

Very true! That IS an inconsistency! Something I noticed but didn’t even register as one 😵‍💫

[@TheGerkuman]

Episode 1 got held back until the end of the season when first season was aired, because it was a bit lacking. So while it's true from a production standpoint, it isn't an inconsistency for the original airing.

[@spacecadetglow]

Maybe Gonzo just has adoptive parents on earth?

[@ozharms]

In real life, the reason Lips’ voice and dialect changed drastically in the Muppets Mayhem was because his original performer was fired by Disney.

[@Levacque]

Jim Henson Studios would have never had a workplace culture that led to such a thing happening. They were formed from collective-style theatre groups and the whole was as important as the individual.

[@alexandramaclachlan7597]

Unironically, thankyou for this. The algorithm gifted me your coke video, and I decided to subscribe & binge the rest of your available vids :) My late mother LOVED the Muppets so I grew up on it. This was silly & fun, cheers for the smiles xx

[@spadinnerxylaphone2622]

I loved Muppets Mayhem despite what some critics said because it gave good backstories for the band.

[@RealKillianTube]

Girthy with the lore!

[@otaking3582]

Maybe Lou Zealand is a fan of fish-out-of-water war movies like Tropic Thunder?

[@RealKillianTube]

🤯🤯🤯

[@spacecadetglow]

I think Lips just did a lot of drugs and that’s why he mumbles now… think Ozzy

[@RealKillianTube]

This theory rocks.

[@NorthSutherland]

Yet a lot of big names, followed by Nora, understand him.

[@theLINK7778]

The world needs more Muppet content, keep up the good work!

[@RealKillianTube]

Thank you! 🙌🏻 More coming soon!

[@blankadams3120]

Theory time: Fozzie is working with Statler and Waldorf. He's their straight man... bear... whatever. He sets them up to rag on his jokes and they get the audience to laugh. So, either Fozzie is funny, or S & W are, either way, Fozzie gets to bask in laughter.

[@RealKillianTube]

Like how he works with Jack Black in the 2011 movie!

[@pokedash55]

You could spin this another way, where they are natural antagonists for eachother. Fozzie is funny but SW rag on him anyway because of their familial relationship. Its shown in "Muppets Family Christmas" that Statler and Waldorf are good family friends with Fozzies mother, meaning they have probably known Fozzie for far longer than He has them. I bet they come to the studio just to see him fail.

[@darthsarcasm73]

Maybe Statler and Waldorf are both mutually stoned, and laughing at each other’s jokes because of that.

[@RealKillianTube]

Stoned and thinking Fozzie ISN’T funny!? Impossible. Can’t be done.

[@Westing-er3fb]

I mean, Peter Dinklage and Shaquille O'Neal look pretty different, and they're both human.

[@RealKillianTube]

Bro, Shaq? The guy that visited Nelly in his dreams and said he smelled???

[@shellyvision9693]

So for what it’s worth, the reason Mary refers to Walter as Gary’s friend instead of brother is because in the original script they were just supposed to be friends.

[@KasumiKenshirou]

They probably should've updated the song, then.

[@aaronspangles5819]

I know you mentioned about muppets take Manhattan, but I was already confused on the lore of kermit and piggy and if they truly married in that movie because they had a real minister instead of Gonzo and then in most wanted they obviously wernt' married.

[@professorhaystacks6606]

Iirc, there was an interview or something where Kermit claims they aren't really married as a result but Piggy claims they are. Presumably they actually aren't since for legal purposes you have to sign a marriage license to avoid this sort of situation.

[@ajzeg01]

Muppet Babies is a dream sequence

[@pokedash55]

Except in "A Muppets a Christmas Together" where they discuss their "First Christmas together", showing the babies. So Either that special and muppet babies are in a separate canon or it's just a huge inconsistency. Sesame street also exists in that special so who knows anymore.

[@oldmanmammoth5364]

The sudden realization that you are using music from Muppet's Party Cruise hit me like a flashbang.

[@RealKillianTube]

Playing the hits

[@shellyvision9693]

Here’s an interesting inconsistency. The original Muppets movie establishes that the founding members of the Muppets were Kermit, Fozzie, Dr. Teeth, Floyd, Janice, Zoot, Animal, Scooter, Gonzo, Camila, Sweetums, Miss Piggy, Rowlf, Bunsen, and Beaker. Despite that, Beaker and Camila aren’t in the first season of the Muppet Show at all, and they don’t even know Scooter at the start of the Muppet Show. That’s always been the biggest inconsistency to me.

[@SweetStevieAaron]

The movie is a movie within the universe. The movie begins with them all watching their movie at the start and Kermit even addresses this when Robin questions its accuracy.

[@corganreeves4297]

In Muppets Mayhem, Janice gets sick and all of the band members state that Janice is allergic to lies. In Muppets Most Wanted, Janice is constantly doing shows shows with Constantine, the worlds most dangerous frog who is lying about being Kermit, and she doesn't get sick. Please someone explain this.

[@RealKillianTube]

Ohhh I love this one!

[@noahray7757]

This was a great video to watch while I started my day! More muppets lore videos PLEASE for the love of all that’s good and felt!!!

[@robinturner9928]

A side note, on the issue of Gonzo and chickens: In a Muppet Christmas Special (the one where everybody meets up-- The Muppets, Sesame Street and Fraggle Rock) Gonzo sees Big Bird and says that Big Bird has something that chickens lack... BULK!!! that wasn't even brought up in the relationship between Gonzo and Camilla.

[@thegeekchurch3893]

Very great. What about the Seasame Street Connection? Kermit was a regular there, remember?

[@RealKillianTube]

I don’t remember but I’ve seen! I’m in the Elmo generation

[@thegeekchurch3893]

@@RealKillianTube do a search for "kermit the frog news flash" and prepare to laugh

[@juliezimmerman3476]

You made amazing connections.As a fan I never would have thought of in a million years.

[@RealKillianTube]

More coming soon! And the ones people left in the comments here are even more wild!

[@fandomcentralstation]

What I wanna know is why no one talks about the fact that Sam Eagle has an ex-wife and two estranged kids

[@RealKillianTube]

WHEN was this established?

[@fandomcentralstation]

@@RealKillianTube One of the episodes of the OG series. I’d have to rewatch to find the exact one. His son is a taxidermist and his daughter is dating an owl. Edit: found it kzbin.info/www/bejne/f4Obh6mreLqtpaMsi=H2XgjVr9uLow7th7

[@fandomcentralstation]

@@RealKillianTube found a clip of it for you. It’s Episode 422: Andy Williams. kzbin.info/www/bejne/f4Obh6mreLqtpaMfeature=shared

[@CooperWood-ty9wq]

Okay, so here we go. There are 3 levels to the muppets’ existence. First is our world where they’re puppets. Next is what I’ll call the “TV-verse” because this is where the shows, talk show appearances, tv specials, Sesame Street, and Fraggle Rock are set. Then there’s the “movie-verses,” with each movie being set in its own fictional universe created by the muppets of the tv-verse. The biggest problem there is the play Manhattan Melodies from Muppets Take Manhattan which the tv-verse muppets may have actually performed sometime in the 80s or maybe something like that. It’s a bit confusing. Muppet Babies is its own weird thing. Maybe Piggy imagined it all, maybe the muppets licensed their likenesses of themselves as babies to an animation studio…I don’t know and nobody does. It’s best to forget about the muppet babies appearing in Muppet Family Christmas, too, because that opens up a TON of problems. With all of that in mind: 10. Scooter’s uncle who owned the theater is JP Grosse, who died (in the tv-verse) sometime after the muppet show and left the theater to Kermit. Tex Richman and the standard rich and famous contract were created by the muppets for the movies. 9. I can’t say why Scooter wasn’t picked to host Muppets Tonight, but I am glad Clifford is gone. Between his design and puppeteer Kevin Clash’s allegations, we probably won’t see much of him again. In universe, he was probably fired or left the muppets for his own reasons. 8. I’ve got nothing for Piggy oinking. 7. Gonzo’s species has never been clear. Muppets in Space is a movie within the fictional tv-verse, as all the muppet movies are. Gonzo’s mother is actually more of an inconsistency than you mentioned, because in a Muppet Show episode, Gonzo claimed that his mother died before he was born. 6. Gonzo and Camilla have always had a very loose relationship, with Gonzo flirting with plenty of birds (including Big Bird in the Leslie Uggams episode of the Muppet Show) while he’s supposed to be dating Camilla. 5. Just because Lew likes war movies doesn’t mean he wants to make a war movie. 4. Maybe they’re different species of muppet bear? This one’s always confused me too. 3. Fozzie is funny. Statler and Waldorf are clearly just jerks. 2. Gary and Walter…brothers or just friends? Okay, you got me on this one. 1. I just assumed that Lips got his brain fried after too many years of rock and roll. The Mayhem are almost-canonically stoners, and that must have affected them in some way. Then again, as you said, muppets lore doesn’t really matter and this is your video, so believe whatever you want! It’s just the muppets.

[@pokemaniacalex8031]

My headcanon for why Lips sounds different in Muppets Mayhem is because he got into Zoot's stash, and it did not go well... Maybe it's the second time, and the first was why he disappeared for a while after Caper.

[@ozharms]

FINALLY!!!! SOMEONE IS TALKING ABOUT THAT “FRIEND” LINE IN THE 2011 MUPPETS!

[@RealKillianTube]

I found out more details on it! Following up soon!

[@LamangoKaijura]

Scooter's uncle is mentioned in Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie, with it saying he sold the theater. Lips is in Take Manhattan. He shows up a lot in that 30 years absence. He joined the Band and Clifford at Walt Disney World.

[@RealKillianTube]

Where is he in Take Manhattan!? 🫨 I missed my sweet boy??

[@LamangoKaijura]

@@RealKillianTube He's in the wedding scene in the way back.

[@RealKillianTube]

I just looked it up and saw him way back there! What a demotion 🫨

[@jasontheredfox]

I needed this video so bad, great job on this

[@RealKillianTube]

Thank you, my g

[@Mike0908]

i often wondered if Muppet Babies series is even canon with the Muppets franchise. now that there are two of them makes me wonder if the two shows are their own universe. skeeter and nanny don't appear in any muppet films i've seen. i know skeetere appeared briefly in one of the muppet comics as an adult. but canon's a funny thing. they could change at any time. or reboot the comics and say the last one is no longer canon. And also Muppet Monsters were they were adults but did similar animation to Muppet Babies.

[@haleymeek5178]

Commenting for the algorithm- criminally under-viewed.

[@thephonelad992]

i can't believe it. i literally dreamed about a muppet lore video. it was like 8 hours long and looked into every franchise the muppets crossed over with and then a separate video about sesame street so not quite the same-

[@RealKillianTube]

Just need 15 more of these!

[@TheDanishGuyReviews]

18:22 How is this one an inconsistency? Lew is suggesting a movie, but likes a different genre the best. Nothing odd about that.

[@RealKillianTube]

Needed a good excuse to express my Lew hate

[@spookynoble4391]

OMG OMG OMG! I have watched this video on KZbin with G SMOKE 🐐🚬0⃣3⃣😜 and Black Peter Griffin and it was awesome! I love The Muppets franchise, Kermit, Animal, Scooter, Gonzo the Whatever, Rizzo, Pepe and Fozzie Bear! I don't mind Miss Piggy but she's okay to me! I also love the lore and inconsistencies! ⭐⭐⭐⭐ ⭐

[@ROBERTJOHNSON020]

Another example of Miss Piggy snorting when emotional is when she presented the 1980 Academy Awards and started crying because she was not nominated for best actress.

[@bugginonthewall]

finally, quality content on youtube 🙏

[@Nerdtendo6366]

The craziest but if Muppets Lore is that Meet the Feebles is canon in the muppets universe

[@rogergoza3180]

Man, Statler and Waldorf donating the final dollar to save the theatre would’ve been a really cute finale. I still like the one we got but that just sounds so much more thematically pleasing, their biggest haters finally coming around to save them

[@RealKillianTube]

I like it too!

[@JCFPlush225]

Finally someone other than me is talking about Lips’s voice change, he’s my absolute favorite Muppet even though he’s mostly a background character

[@buddyzilla4557]

21:14 -Fozzy was actually designed around practicality first as well. It's not an in universe lore explanation I know, but their and the backstage stuff does impact each other at times. I'd suggest you look into it another time but he was made to be a sort of revolutionary Muppet at the time and we probably wouldn't have gotten mechanically manipulated faction features in the movie TMNT turtles or other Hensen adjacent puppets quite the same without him. He was an experimental one in that front and an overall success.

[@procrastinator547]

There is precedence for muppets in space to be a movie put on by the muppets, the first muppet movie IS them putting on a production, so I could buy that.

[@buddyzilla4557]

19:06 -Part of the joke is that most Muppet movies ARE fish out of water movies. Lol

[@MisterMoccasin]

Man, right when you began the Lou Zealand montage I got excited and thought "my favourite muppet!" Wow, can't believe it's lore that he's the least favourite.

[@RealKillianTube]

I like Johnny Fiama less these days

[@kjandthediamonds4457]

ty i love the muppets and there is not enough content

[@RealKillianTube]

MuppetTube is on the rise!

[@jackob.graphic5143]

Well, regarding Gonzo’s family, in Episode 210 of the Muppet Show Gonzo comments that his mother died before he was born

[@RealKillianTube]

I have frantically added this to my notes 🫡

[@Mike0908]

​@@RealKillianTube maybe the moms not mentioned in muppets from space could be adopted or foster mothers. that way muppets from space could still be canon. any earth parents he had he might consider his family as they raised him.

[@mrmadfunny5507]

This is absolutely amazing keep up the great work can’t wait to see more 🔥!

[@RealKillianTube]

Thank you so much!!

[@agentadvocate]

This is so great. I'd listen to you talk about any iceberg or Muppets-themed topics, man. Can't believe you have so few followers. Subbed!

[@technicolordreamer]

Thank you for doing a Muppet video! Please do more Muppet videos. Another lore inconsistency is the existence of Skeeter on the original Muppet Babies. Whatever happened to her?

[@rennythespaceguy7285]

Not a lore inconsistency, maybe she just died

[@skapokonroll]

There was a comic where she met the Muppets again as an adult. Apparently the reason she doesn't show up too often is because of copyright issues.

[@kbraven7007]

@@skapokonrollWell she showed up again in the Muppet babies reboot. They need to bring her and Summer Penguin to the main cast of muppets

[@geoffreyrichards6079]

I never really understood how a Louie Armstrong impression is considered offensive by some people. I mean, it’s more of a celebrity impression rather than an ethnic one - it’s like getting upset when a non-Scottish person does a Sean Connery impression.

[@RealKillianTube]

Probably something to do with the long terrible history of white people doing offensive black impressions as entertainment. Minstrel shows and whatnot. But hey THATS JUST A THEORY

[@RealKillianTube]

By theory I mean, that’s what it is. Y’all gotta do some research 😭

[@ajzeg01]

Lips isn’t a lore inconsistency, that’s just the development of the character over time.

[@RealKillianTube]

This could probably be argued for every one of these points 😅 I swear I’m aware of how arbitrary all this is

[@NorthSutherland]

Backwards?

[@Emile_G3]

I did some a few months ago! Loved your video btw!

[@supercjm3306]

There's actually a bit in Muppets From Space where one character says that the events are "like something out of a sci-fi movie", to which Pepe responds "but this is a Muppet movie". The only Muppet movie that doesn't feature any fourth wall breaking jokes acknowledging that it's a movie is The Muppets Take Manhattan, so that's probably the only Muppets movie that's actually canon. The bigger inconsistency regarding Gonzo's family is that, in the George Burns episode of The Muppet Show, Gonzo says that his mother died before he was born, but there have been multiple other pieces of media (including the mockumentary, as you showed in this video) where his mother is said to be alive.

[@RealKillianTube]

But no film is 100% just a film. There’s moments of fourth wall break in every film, I.e. the theater scenes in The Muppet Movie or right before the opening number in Most Wanted. These movies aren’t as black and white as muppet fans think when it comes to canonicity

[@Levacque]

12:42 by "Muppet universe," you mean the real universe, right? Because Muppets are real actors, buddy.

[@RealKillianTube]

Be PATIENT

[@smcphee8499]

I literally been looking for muppets retrospective and icebergs. lol

[@DimeUhDozen]

16:22 Tbh, I don't think the lifespans of the animals muppets are based on factor into how long they live. I mean, Kermit's been around a while and frogs typically only live for 10-12 years. And muppets seem to often address that they're made of felt so -- could be some muppet physiology immortality going on?

[@AutisticGameGuy]

At the very least, they don't seem to grow or age in the same way people or animals do, if Muppets 2011 is anything to go by. Makes you wonder how old Statler and Waldorf really are.

[@gornotheperson]

Respect for using the my muppets show soundtrack!

[@mathieuleader8601]

I thought Clifford was a second generation Eastern Dragon living in the US

[@SweetStevieAaron]

Re: Gonzo’s mother… could have be referring to the person who adopted him or knowing his chaotic backstory, have been involved in some kind of caper where he ended up being adopted?

[@PDComicBookNetwork]

Not a correction but an addendum to the Scooter thing. The Muppet Movie shows him meeting Kermit et al alongside the Mayhem, for whom he's the roadie, when he very specifically meets Kermit backstage in The Muppet Show season 1.

[@Ar_cadez]

anyway an inconsistency that always bothered me is that scooter is introduced as someone Kermit has never met before in the show but in the movie he quite clearly meets him along side electric mayhem bc hes their manager or whatever i forgot. My headcanon is that Kermit just straight up forgot about him bc i think that's funny and it lines up with how little Kermit cares about him outside of his uncle owning the theater in the early years.

[@Double_c_money]

You should do a Muppet iceberg

[@RealKillianTube]

Perhaps in 2025. A good, even half decade late.

[@RoninCatholic]

"Mary wants to marry Gary" My parents have those names, and are both Muppet fans. I need to get them a copy of this movie!

[@Double_c_money]

Love the outro btw

[@zachhaumesser2092]

I thought of one more revolving around Dr. Teeth’s gold tooth! “Different explanations have been given for the origin of his gold tooth. On talk shows, he claimed it was made from his gold records, melted, putting his money where his mouth is.[3] In an episode of The Muppets, he says that he got it from a voodoo princess named Tianna in Tupelo, MS.[4] In The Muppets Mayhem, it is revealed that it is actually a gold cap, made from his Great Granddaddy's solid gold floss case.”

[@RealKillianTube]

Good catch! This rocks

[@StarBlue42]

I think Gonzo was talking about an adoptive mother, someone must have raised him.

[@RealKillianTube]

Not a bad theory!

[@demontamerbf18]

So glad I found this while scrolling my recommended, hilarious video.

[@RealKillianTube]

Thank you!

[@UncleScrooge1898]

This, to me, has always been the biggest one: in A Muppet Family Christmas, shortly after Kermit and the gang have arrived at Mrs. Bear's house, Doc says to Sprocket, "These creatures remind me of those 'Fraggles' you're always seeing." Just ___Sprocket___ alone sees them? But over the course of the final two Fraggle Rock episodes, Doc first saw Gobo, they began talking, and became friends! So A Muppet Family Christmas must simply take place before the Fraggle Rock ending, right? Easy explanation, no? BUT... at the end of Family Christmas, when the Muppet and Sesame crowd are all singing carols, the entire ___Fraggle Five___ appear in the living room... outside of Fraggle Rock, in the 'regular' world ("outer space" to the Fraggles)... but until the Fraggle Rock finale, Gobo was the only one of them ever brave enough to do that! (At least willingly. Wembley and Boober both ended up in Doc's workshop, outside the Fraggle hole, a couple times, against their will and to their alarm, in earlier episodes.) In other words, Doc says something in A Muppet Family Christmas that indicates it must take place before the Fraggle Rock finale. But at the end of A Muppet Family Christmas, the Fraggle five does something that means it can only take place AFTER the Fraggle Rock finale!

[@njf11-]

Not only does this guy prefer Fozzie over Statler and Waldorf, but he also hates Lew Zealand? smh😞

[@RealKillianTube]

I’ve discovered recently I hate Johnny Fiama even more

[@hepa1ien]

the best part was the microphone switch

[@RealKillianTube]

TRUE, honestly. I can’t wait for the audio to be good in the rest of the these 😭

[@GuanacoOxidado]

I considered making a video about the Muppet timeline

[@alanfunt4013]

Piggy snorts in the Parkinson interview. Eeeesh, gotta love "experts".

[@RealKillianTube]

No she doesn’t

[@alanfunt4013]

@@RealKillianTube Yes she does, look it up. There's an upload including the lost media, she does it more than once. She also does the same thing in the Russel Harty interview with Frank and Jim. It's part of her gettin' fresh with the interviewer shtick, and Frank Oz at his best. It's a fan thing I guess.

[@RealKillianTube]

@@alanfunt4013 timestamps?

[@Woozie004]

You’ve been sent to me by the gods

[@xifeelxelectricx]

This video rules.

[@Mayydayy86]

13:01 Heh. Muppet can(n)on

[@junkfooduniverse3953]

in case you're wondering here's the actual definition noun: lore a body of traditions and knowledge on a subject or held by a particular group, typically passed from person to person by word of mouth. "the jinns of Arabian lore"

[@buddyzilla4557]

Part of the difficulty of lore consistency/inconsistency is that Jim was a genius when it came out covering this. The Muppets are supposed to be real beings in their world but also actors. This was the perfect cover for the wide characterization and shifts as they are both stage and cinema performers. It's kept more ambiguous as to what is what so whether it is TRUELY an inconsistency or one of the contradicting pieces is simply fiction is left on the viewer. They do the work on explaining it like you do now and Hensen can just do what he needed to. It's basically the "this is an alternate timeline/multiverse version" explanation but less lazy and before that showed up in every piece of media ever. It is funny though, because there was A LOT of early Muppets stuff that dumps lore connections that people forget about. Henson was a guy who took what he just did and moved onto the next fast from it so things would connect but evolve hard. An example is the fact Gonzo was a Frackle. People forget this because they were introduced as such in that original TV Christmas special now lost in sea of them. The Frackles labeled as such also didn't really hold any further relevancy moving forward to the same degree except the fact Gonzo was one of them. Even media clearly meant to be mostly fictional acting tends to occasionally lamplight the idea of being the production with fourth wall breaks that dump little bits of story. The Christmas Carol where Gonzo is supposedly Dickens and Topper (aka Rizzo) calls him out as being a fake is a bit of consistent lore in a way. This was vengeance for Gonzo who was the narrator/host of one of there fairy tale theater style specials. It's done as a stage play by the Muppets taking the role of famous characters including Gonzo being some himself. He plays the boy who cried wolf and Rumpelstiltskin in a couple but was mainly the host doing the in between introductions for each story and narration. This was accompanied by Rizzo who was kind of ruining things. He would question Gonzo on the logic of aspects of the story and try to interact directly with he characters to Gonzos chagrin. He kept referring to the elves in the Eleven and the shoemaker as Elvis and even jumped in to suggest the couple thank them by making them Elvis costumes. The later movie on the Dickens classic is Gonzo's turn to control everything in the more traditional sense while Rizzo was being pulled along. I had a VHS of the fairy tale production special but most people are unaware it even existed. I've seen a couple smaller channels discuss it and production significances but that's about it and there is never a connection made to the recurring joint narrator roles of Rizzo/Gonzo. You mention backup show runners for Kermit but in a bunch of the stage productions done as one of performances over a running episodal event, Gonzo and Rizzo were the go to. They even did this role to a degree in Muppet Treasure Island and Jim's friends. These roles were made up for this version as the audience connector again.

[@stevieg3761]

Probably mentioned by now, but there's a song in the very 1st movie about him being from space essentially

[@MptLvr]

Before I even got into the content of this video, I was so thrilled to hear the Muppet show theme in minor from monster adventure playing… Deep cut!

[@RealKillianTube]

Figuring out this video’s soundtrack was so much fun! I can’t wait to do it again for the sequel

[@supercjm3306]

Muppet Babies is actually another interesting lore inconsistency. The Muppet Babies first appear in The Muppets Take Manhattan (which, as I mentioned in my previous comment, is likely the only canon Muppet movie), in what is explicitly Miss Piggy's fantasy, and Muppet Babies is referenced as an in-universe show in the Sandra Bullock episode of Muppets Tonight. So that settles it as being non-canon, right? Except, A Muppet Family Christmas has the Muppets watching a home video of themselves as babies on their first Christmas together, so they Muppets _did_ canonically grow up together... even though that's directly contradicted by the original scene from Takes Manhattan (which is Piggy imagining what it would have been like if they had hypothetically grown up together), and basically everything else that isn't Muppet Babies itself.

[@sadyeet2784]

all of the Muppet movies are movies in universe, the easiest ones to debate it is the 1st movie, 2nd movie, and 8th movie, but they all are, in Muppets Most Wanted in the song "We're Doing a Sequel" it is said by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew "I don't mean to be a stickler, but this is the 7th sequel to our original motion picture." and in real life Muppets Most Wanted is the 8th Muppets movie, making it the 7th sequel to The Muppets Movie (1979)

[@Bigstunker4040]

Cool video, man!

[@RealKillianTube]

Thank you, slime

[@Uay778]

Well hang on. Gonzo could've been talking about his adoptive mother. Gonzo was left on earth as a baby I'm guessing since he had no memory of his home planet or birth parents, so that stands that someone mustve taken care of him while he was growing up right?

[@gilition]

Lore inconsistency: in the Milton Berle episode of The Muppet Show, Fozzie is afraid to confront Milton as Milton is his idol and can't think of a good way to introduce himself. However, though during the Entertainer number, a group of Muppets join in to sing along one of them being Fozzie. This is before Fozzie works up the courage to introduce himself to Milton. Another lore inconsistency is how in the Zero Mostel episode during the UK spot, It says that there's going to be a pantomime sketch with Fozzie and Zero. However though no sketch appears. There was one filmed but ultimately ended up a deleted scene, but since it has never surfaced and was never released, it counts as a lore inconsistency.

[@buddyzilla4557]

Gonzo was a Frackle originally from the first Christmas special. The Frackles are the monster creatures of the Muppet universe and they tried to Grinch Christmas from Santa once. They had a more loose backstory and concept behind them that was semi-recycled along with their name for the Fraggles of Fraggle Rock. It was Muppets from space that retconned Gonzo's origin. In the Muppet Baby's show he calls himself a Weirdo but that was also non cannon. It was an extension of a dream sequence from one of the movies where the Muppets imagined what it would have been like if they had all known each other from day one. It was intended to be this way as a spinoff cartoon by production. It does lead credence to the idea that Gonzo is just a self appointed "weirdo" as a friendly Frackle. Don't know where you are coming up with the LGBTQA+ stuff on some of these characters but Gonzo was most certainly a Nuerodivergent representation before that was a real term. He was more an outsider who didn't think, act, get interested in or have a personality that met the baseline of most of his species..or any for that manner. It's honestly a bit insensitive that they went back and retconned things to say it's ok he is different because he's just an alien. Lol They surely didn't intend that but in hind sight ..yeah..it's pretty fucked up. In general Gonzo was viewed as atypical but accepted. It was mostly him who referred to himself as a weirdo or piggy, using it as a derogatory label. He was a fairly valued member of the gang who's oddities were just viewed as individualism amongst a group of misfits. I mean..is he REALLY that weird compared to a banjo playing frog, joke telling bear, orange cheato haired..human? Or a whole cast of monster appearing in various sizes and shapes? But then suddenly he is the REAL outcast even to them somehow and has to be explained as an ALIEN to justify. No..he's a Frackle like the other monsters. You don't need to say each and every one of them is an alien do you? What about poor Sweetums?! Is he chopped liver? He's typically a friendly monster..Frackles are just a species of monster in this world.. 12:50-I think this is an explanation for the inconstancy. The guy WOULD know that Gonzo was a Frackle introduced to be a misfit who joined up with the Muppets. He probably has a lot of respect for that especially since it was done under Jim Hensen himself and Muppets From Space was not.

[@RealKillianTube]

I think you’re a Muppet genius

[@buddyzilla4557]

@RealKillianTube Nope.

[@2011supergamer]

Gonzo flirts with Big Bird in front of Camilla in the muppet show (Which is crazy for a number of reasons)

[@RealKillianTube]

Omg our queer king 🥹

[@SamuelDoherty]

You could have done a top 10 using Muppets mayhem by itself

[@RealKillianTube]

Honestly, so much to unpack with that show

[@SamuelDoherty]

@@RealKillianTube Dr teeth gold tooth, Janice's family, the mayhem's dating past, the mayhem's ages, zoots addictions, how the tour fits in with the Muppets ABC show

[@eeloneal708]

Squirds on pilm

[@pokedash55]

My Brain has been sorting through Muppet lore for weeks now and I'm glad someone is trying to point these fun details out. There are alot of random Muppet canon divergences that happen and alternate timelines going on. What's a movie inside a movie? What's canon to the original show and what isnt? Like people forget Muppets TV existed, but that is, with Muppets Tonight, a spinoff of the Show format. Making it canon would also make Muppet 3d vision canon, as that has Waldo in it. It's also worth looking into interviews and Live performances. Like with the Electric Mayhem, Floyd confirms that the Muppet Movie actually happened to them at a concert in the mid 2010s, but Scooter being the Band Manager has never been a part of the Mayhem lore since the movie. I think that was just a way to have scooter play a aprt in the movie and he wasn't actually with them during that time.

[@pokedash55]

Gonna use this video to continue to ramble about Muppet Lore since no one else will. Long post ahead:: The biggest brain break is a special called "The Muppets Celebrate 30 years". This has it all. Inconsistant character backgrounds, crossovers, footage from the Show playback, and Jim Henson appearing as a canon person. So in this, Kermit mentions his early days of doing commercials and his friendship with Sam and Friends (Fozzie is astonished Kermit did comercials). Did Kermit do commercials after their big break in the original movie but before he was able to secure a show? Is Kermit's swamp years canon? In Muppets go to Disney World, Its said that Kermit grew up in Florida, near Disney World but I believe he grew up in Mississippi in the Movie. And Swamp Years doesn;t look at all like Florida. So Kermit's backstory is pretty dubious. In the same anniversary special, Rowlf mentions that he was a big star during the Jimmy Dean show, so that is now canon. He also sings about Lassie dyeing in the Muppet Show, something that only makes sense having seen the Jimmy Dean show where he proposes to lassie. Even more confusing is in the Muppets (2015) he kept a picture of him and Jimmy, even though that show is divorced from the OG timeline! So when Did Rowlf do those commercials and land his spot with Jimmy Dean?? No clue. Muppet Babies is another blackhole of lore. It's not canon to the OG SHOW/2011 timeline, since they met in the OG Movie but it IS canon to A Family Christmas, where they watch a family video of them as babies, mentioning it is their first Christmas together. Muppet TV and Muppets Tonight could be the same canon, but I am unsure how they fit with the SHOW timeline persay. 2015 is pretty divorced from everything. It is also unclear of Kermiggy's canon status, they go on so many interviews now it's hard to say. all the 80s and 90s movies are just movies made by the cast, so they are clear of error. So A Family Christmas, 30 year Anniversary, Muppet Babies are all canon to eachother... but the 30th Anniversery is a celebration of the OG SHOW, who has a movie about the origin of how they met.... which contradicts the babies canon??? And the 2011 movie acknoledges the Movie and Show happened in canon, but the sequel frames the 2011 movie as yet another movie! This isn't even mentioning the Babies reboot, a show who's final episode is a Muppet Show homage, with Veterinarians Hospital and Pigs in space references. It's a mess...

[@2011supergamer]

Insta-liked and subbed for the Muppets Monster Adventure music

[@mlgodzilla4206]

After Muppets From Space, I view Gonzo as an alien. Some say it isn’t canon but there’s no real reason to say it isn’t canon.

[@RealKillianTube]

Hot take but agreed 🤭

[@buddyzilla4557]

Muppet babies is non-cannon. It was a fantasy moment in Muppets Take Manhatten. This was a set up for the spin-off and the concept is that it was just an extension of that what if.

[@christionpulliam9870]

Facts I want more puppet theories, muppet lore , muppet charecter analysis

[@RealKillianTube]

You came to the right place, sparky

[@jamesbevan9939]

Clifford's absence in recent years has a sadder explanation - a false sexual assault allegation against Kevin Clash led him to retiring from most of the roles he was most known for (especially Clifford and Elmo). He was eventually cleared and still works with the Henson company, but the damage was done.

[@RealKillianTube]

What other puppets besides Clifford were retired?

[@fettuccinealfredo6499]

Here’s one (I’m still binging the original Muppet Show, so forgive me if this has an answer); So, in ABC’s The Muppets (specifically the episode with Kristen Chenoweth), it is revealed that Janice at one point was dating Dr. Teeth. This could have been off screen, but I have found nothing on that yet. I do know Janice was with Zoot at one point around Season 1, and this has been acknowledged. Is this an inconsistency? If it isn’t, is there an episode or movie that can prove this happened?

[@RealKillianTube]

This is a girthy one! Good find!

[@fettuccinealfredo6499]

@@RealKillianTube Some more inconsistencies I noticed (I kept trying to get more of a list of them and I completely forgot); -The Electric Mayhem being on a perpetual tour. Now, it makes sense that they are always jamming and touring, but in the 2011 film, they are shown as playing in a New York subway without Animal (or Lips, but you did a good deep dive into Lips). I wouldn’t consider that a tour, but maybe by the Mayhem’s standards, it is a tour. Still, it is a little weird with Animal being away from the Mayhem like that (although if you consider it just a movie with The Muppets as actors, it makes a little more sense). -Janice’s twin sister (this is very Electric Mayhem themed); In Muppets Mayhem, Janice states that she has a twin sister she doesn’t speak to. This could be Season 1 Janice (who was played by a different actress entirely), but it isn’t made very clear. -I originally was going to bring up Floyd being jealous that Janice had hooked up with Dr. Teeth, but an interview being released stating that Floyd was fine with Janice being with Zoot. After Muppets Mayhem, it actually makes sense why Floyd would be a little upset (as Dr. Teeth and him have a close bond) -I’m not even touching Muppet Babies and then Animal’s backstory in Muppets Mayhem. I am just going to assume an alternate reality for simplicity. These are things that I felt unsure about, so there may be an explanation, but I have yet to find it (this dives into your whole “Play or Movie” bit at the end).