Top 10 Pro Football Defensive Tackles of All-Time (NFL - AFL)

[@geraldroyster7011]

🎉Where is Alan Page?

[@Whodeysportscards]

Yes, I realized I missed after posting. Maybe an update coming?

[@busydem6161]

Was page an end or tackle ????

[@Whodeysportscards]

I believe Tackle with Eller on the end

[@emptyhand777]

Glad I checked the comments. I clicked the video specifically to see Alan Page, the first NFL MVP on the defensive side.

[@thomasespositio3139]

curly culp better than an NFL MVP on defense Alan Page

[@michaelmccallum9874]

Alan page had more sacks than any DT. Only DE's had more. Big ommission

[@davidcrouch7365]

Good list. I can't argue with any of the picks. But no Alan Page? He only won NFL MVP.

[@Whodeysportscards]

Yes, it’s a miss on my part, probably top 5

[@aldersgatelives9841]

I favor Alan Page over John Randle. Page may not have had the physical size relatively, but his sheer quickness and tenacity more than compensated. IMO. Go Purple People Eaters!

[@johnscritchfield5736]

Did you ever hear of Alan Page?!!!

[@jpjpjp6328]

The list doesn't hold water without Page. He was incredible.

[@johnscritchfield5736]

@@jpjpjp6328 absolutely! Check out his stats compared to Greens, Pages were far better! I guess because Green won Super Bowls Page is getting punished for it!

[@Whodeysportscards]

He didn’t get punished for it, it was just a big fat miss on my part, he should be top 5. I’m trying to get through all the positions and will come back and update this one at some point during the season

[@enigma9971]

​@@Whodeysportscardshe's number one, dude! Name another defensive tackle that won the league MVP. I'll wait.

[@im7700]

You mean the same Alan Page that was neutralized by Gene Upshaw and had ZERO tackles in the Super Bowl loss to the Raiders? Child, please 😂

[@kevindawe7495]

WHAT, where's Allen Page ???? NFL MVP......... 🤨

[@Whodeysportscards]

Yes, complete miss on my part. I will do an update at some point this football season.

[@danholm4952]

No doubt! FIRST NFL MVP on D ever! Culp over Page? LMAO

[@kevindawe7495]

@@danholm4952 Exactly..........👍

[@johncrimmins1540]

Alan Page ? league MVP

[@dan-ws2sf]

I was about to say Alan Page but a few of you beat me to it🤣 He was the first D-lineman to win the MVP and I believe only Lawrence Taylor has won it since. He also played in 4 Super Bowls and unofficially, I think he had around 100 sacks or more.

[@leefields3658]

Yes, and, as you pointed out but to be clear, that is not defensive MVP but NFL MVP!

[@dan-ws2sf]

@@leefields3658 that’s true, thank you for the reminder

[@robertzenniful]

Great player, however he was invisible in the Super Bowls

[@williamkevinmeisner5457]

Page had 148.5 sacks (unofficial, obviously)… and he played in an era when teams threw about 200 fewer passes per season than they do now. As a pass rusher, there was nobody better.

[@jacksonmillikan749]

Alen Page....End of story

[@Whodeysportscards]

Yes, I completely missed him, probably too 5. I will have to do an update!

[@billbergendahl2911]

Many years ago I met Randy White's high school coach from Delaware. His name was Blaine Tanner.

[@taradactyl5690]

If the HOF had a team, Joe Green and Alan Page would start. Also Reggie White played DT, and Nadamukong Suh was dominant.

[@timothywayne3813]

Can you imagine what it was like for the offensive coordinators on the Chargers, Raiders, and Broncos when they had to plan a running game attack against Buck and Culp twice a year? Buck was an absolute giant compared to his contemporaries while Culp was a NCAA wrestling champion.

[@Whodeysportscards]

A nightmare if you throw in Bobby Bell and Willie Lanier at LB and Emmitt Thomas and Johnny Robinson at DB

[@charlescoleman4017]

Warren Sapp and Randy White are my favorites from this list.

[@riff2072]

Warren Sapp is on the list because he was and is a jerk that gets his name in the news.

[@jackzimmer6553]

Good video! Thanks for keeping it short too!

[@Whodeysportscards]

Thank you!

[@scottharm3932]

Good list! Got all the decades covered going back to the 60s. I've been watching since the 80s so a few of these guys were before my time. I think it shows how the importance of DT has changed over time. It's still a vital position but not as much as it was in the 60s and 70s when the run game was dominant. Look forward to more videos like this one!

[@elbowgang9715]

Good list. You covered all the SuperBowl era with these picks

[@Whodeysportscards]

Appreciate it!

[@DonOlszewski-th1ir]

Allen Page ???!!! This list is incorrect and incomplete without him in the top 5. I give this list little credit

[@Whodeysportscards]

Yes, fair point. It was a complete miss. I will update the list after I get through some of these other positions. I will make sure I don't have any completely obvious misses in the upcoming videos!

[@TimothyWalker-gb9tm]

I Strongly Agree ! Alan Page

[@pablopabon588]

Make the case also for #74 Henry Jordon defensive Tackle Green Bay Packers. HOF.

[@Whodeysportscards]

Yes, another really strong candidate. I really should have made these lists top 15 or 20…

[@your_royal_highness]

Something tells me there is a lot to argue about here. I’d put Bronko Nagurski on this list for sure. He was a two way player and if you watch old film he was a man against boys. Huge for his day.

[@adamallison3685]

Yeah but he was a linebacker

[@terryshaw9471]

Some of my favorites are Randy White, Bob Lilly, Joe Greene, Alan Page and Merlin Olsen

[@garethwin-hamer2956]

Great list.

[@michaelbyrne8860]

A few Defensive Tackles were overlooked and Merlin Olsen's at No#3? He was a 15 year starter 14 all pro and Double or Triple! Alan Page?

[@pawpaw0906]

Good list

[@jagernavet4468]

I'd say you are a younger person or have a limited knowledge of the NFL and it's past players. You placed John Randle on this list when he is not even the best DT from the Vikings! Alan Page was by far the best DT in Viking history and well ahead of half the people on your list. He had 184.0 "unofficial" sacks, 1700+ tackles, recovered 23 fumbles, and blocked 29 kicks in his career. He was also the first defensive player to be named NFL MVP in 1971. Guys from the 50's that should be strongly considered are Leo Nomellini, Art Donovan, and Ernie Stautner. Guys from the 60's : Alex Karras and Henry Jordan. Guys from the 70's : Paul Smith and Diron Talbert Any of these guys were as good or better than some of your choices. Omitting Page from the list is by far the worst thou!

[@Whodeysportscards]

Yes, Alan Page was a definite miss on the list. He would have been top 5 for sure, I will try to do an edit when I get through many of the other positions. For the others, I think you could argue many different points for and against. It's hard to choose 10 players out of many hall of famers. I have many of those others in my Top 20, except Smith and Talbert.

[@berserkley]

Glad you have Cortez on the list. Great players tend to be forgotten when they're playing for losing teams (Seahawks were 2-14 the year he got DPOY.)

[@Whodeysportscards]

Agree, he didn’t garner much of the national spotlight, but he was pretty darn good in his own right!

[@josedopwell9645]

Ernie Stautner of the old-school Steelers is a perfect example of a superior player stuck on a lousy team.

[@xaviervega468]

You missed Alan Page. Other than that, great list.

[@kevinblount267]

Good list I don't know who to take off but you cannot leave Alan Page off

[@luvmedrums4057]

Great job.When this video started, I thought to myself....Better have White&Lilly

[@Whodeysportscards]

I did miss on Alan Page, he should have been in there! Part 2 maybe!

[@MegaStarjames]

Randy white yes but Lilly HELL NO 💯

[@michaeledwards2077]

Good top 10 but Aaron Donald should be higher as three time DPOY

[@Whodeysportscards]

It’s tough for me to rank modern players higher, it’s a completely different era. I wonder how ridiculous some of these older guys stats would be if they played 16-17 games per year in a pass happy league. No doubt Donald is a stud and if he would have played a few more years he could have challenged for a top 3 spot.

[@RamsLakersDodgers]

💯

[@MarkHoeve1234]

Alan Page best of the best

[@davidmorrison-io4co]

Alan Page, Leo Nominelli, Big Daddy Lipscomb, Henry Jordan, Alex Karras.

[@itinerantpatriot1196]

And no room for Alex Karras, a member of the NFL all-decade team for the 1960s. Just like the HOF snubbed him and he had to get in when they expanded the list for a year, he once again is dissed. I imagine if he played for the cowboys he'd make the grade, just a hunch. Someone already pointed out Alan Page being left out, even more inexcusable than Karras. I'll be honest, I rarely look at these "greatest of all-time" lists because they either suffer from recency bias or some other flaw. At least you included players from the 60s but I really only peeked because I wanted to confirm my suspicion that this list, like the rest is...well, like I say, there is a reason I generally skip them. Suspicions confirmed.

[@Whodeysportscards]

That’s fair, there are definitely many more worthy players and I agree some of the older generation of players don’t get the same love. Especially since the league has expanded to 16-17 games and has become a pass first strategy, leading to many more sacks. I will admit, being born in 79, many of these guys were before my time, but I remember my dad talking about many of these all-time greats. I think there could be an argument for Kennedy to be further down and guys like Karras make it. My biggest, most obvious, miss was not having Page on the list and in the top 5. Thanks for the honesty, I will take it into account on future videos.

[@robertn.g.gonzales391]

What about Allen Page??

[@cooltkll]

ALAN PAGE NFL champion (1969) NFL Most Valuable Player (1971) 2× NFL Defensive Player of the Year (1971, 1973) 5× First-team All-Pro (1970, 1971, 1973-1975) 3× Second-team All-Pro (1969, 1972, 1976) 9× Pro Bowl (1968-1976) NFL 100th Anniversary All-Time Team NFL 1970s All-Decade Team............he should be on the list....very good list u have

[@kerryholyoak5720]

Alan Page ? Ernie Stautner ?

[@greggergen9104]

Alan Page is one of only two defensive players, along with Lawrence Taylor, to make NFL MVP and he is not on the list????????????????

[@Whodeysportscards]

Yes, completely missed him. Agree, he's probably top 3. I will need to edit and update after I get through all the other positions. Defensive Ends up next!

[@smoothoperator7023]

@@WhodeysportscardsDon't forget Reggie White! 🤭

[@gregoryhainsworth2663]

Steve McMichael and Joe Klecko were omitted.

[@Whodeysportscards]

Maybe Top 20?

[@edkinsel2795]

I think Steve McMichael is over-rated, him being sick is why he is in this years HOF class, good player, not great

[@roadtrip2943]

Klecko a hall of famer was always double teamed shutting down run game while Gastineau and Philbin ran up the sacks totals

[@gregoryhainsworth2663]

​@@roadtrip2943Philbin was gone when Klecko and Gastineau were playing. You may be thinking of Marty Lyons.

[@johnandzelewski]

Bull! Alex Karras was one of best of 60'S

[@3243_]

I agree with those who say this list needs Alan Page.

[@pablopabon588]

Where also is #88 Alan Page Minnesota Vikings.

[@hardyharhar9]

The best tandem I ever saw was Dana Stubblefield and Bryant Young. Teams would play the Niners and those two would just cave in the line.

[@Whodeysportscards]

Maybe a good idea for another video, best duos of all time.

[@williemoreno3010]

Buffalo bills BRUCE SMITH. 😮😮

[@Whodeysportscards]

I have him as Defensive End

[@DennisDugan-q2g]

Ok. But Merlin Olsen was number one. Part of the fearsome foursome

[@kevindawe7495]

@@DennisDugan-q2g Sorry, I'd go with Allen Page as my Numero Uno... 👌😁

[@bigpeeler]

Buck! ❤️

[@jasonwardy8192]

Alan Page should replace Sapp. Stautner over Buchanan.

[@Whodeysportscards]

I would say Page should be top 5 and I would probably move Culp or Kennedy off the list. I will need to update this one at some point!

[@josedopwell9645]

Along with it seems many others, I thought of Alan Page should've made this list. Purple People Eaters. I do appreciate the inclusion of Curly Culp and Cortez Kennedy though.

[@Whodeysportscards]

Yeah, I screwed up on that one. He’s top 3 no doubt. One of those two you mentioned would probably drop off to include him. Working through all the positions now and will have to come back and update this one

[@pablopabon588]

Where is #71 Alex Karras Detroit Lions his total sacks were 100.

[@johnbroadway4196]

Thank you for saving the BEST FOR THE # 1 SPOT ! MEAN JOE GREENE WAS ONE BAD MOFO. STEELERS FOREVER !!

[@Whodeysportscards]

As a Bengals fan, it was hard for me to put him there….lol

[@johnbroadway4196]

@@Whodeysportscards , OH WOW ?! Indeed it must have. But I will say this. In the 70s the Central division was the toughest division. In all of football at that time. Ken Anderson was A Dam Good QB, that wasn't given his due. He should be in the Hall of Fame.

[@Whodeysportscards]

Yes, sadly though probably only Anthony Munoz would make it in any other Top 10 lists. We've had some decent players, but nothing as dominating (especially on defense) as the Steelers have had. AFC North is by far the toughest division in today's NFL as well!

[@johnbroadway4196]

@@Whodeysportscards , Dude With Paul Brown as the Owner & Head coach. I Totally Respect Him. Football wouldn't be Football, Without How Mr. Brown made all of Football better.I look forward to this upcoming season. Just protect Joe Burrows. GOOOOOO STEELERS ! 🤪😁🤟🤣

[@kennycarlson9996]

best defensive player of the 70s ,im a fan of his , and this is coming from a raider fan, most people dont know this but he was damm near a raider

[@MichaelGibbons-uk2mc]

Rosie Grier. Like alot of these lists, tendency to ignore anyone not from the past 30 years. Lou Groza, Big Daddy Lipscomb, 60s Packers teams Alex karma's etc.

[@Whodeysportscards]

Agree, looking into more of these older players, I think you will be happy with my MLB all-time list that I’m hoping to post this weekend. You may be surprised on #1 though!

[@LBVeil4215]

Alex Karras👍

[@budbreamer8411]

My first thought was, Where the heck is Allan Page. Then I looked at the comments and saw that was just about every comment. Good list, but you blew it big time with no Allen Page.

[@theodoreglasser3797]

Where is Alan Page? He was one of only two defensive players, and the only defensive tackle to win NFL MVP!

[@Whodeysportscards]

Yes, big miss on my part for this list. First video out of the gate, ensuring I don’t have a big miss on the other upcoming lists

[@swmetcalf987]

Have to have Alan Page on this list.

[@sdrurylv7979]

Alan and Deacon!

[@Whodeysportscards]

A definite miss of mine on Alan, Deacon I have in my Defensive end video I just posted, check it out!

[@robboswell6922]

Deacon was a D End

[@sdrurylv7979]

Thank you all for pointing out Deacon was DE

[@richardadas2520]

How about Dan Hampton from best defense of all time?

[@Whodeysportscards]

Great player, HoFer I just don’t quite seeing him as top 10 though

[@PaulBoyd-qn3zm]

Big Daddy Lipscomb of the Baltimore Colts

[@stephenmcspirit9292]

Alan Page was mvp as a DT! How is he not included???

[@morrisparrish76]

Allen page & Dan Hampton WTF are either of them?

[@stephenleander3869]

Where is Page and White!

[@Whodeysportscards]

I have White as a DE, check out that video!

[@carspiv]

This list is a JOKE without Alan Page. Billy Ray Smith (Sr.) wouldn’t have been out of place on this list. But I am glad to see Howie Long left off. He’s a nice guy and a media favorite but he’s not all-time top 10.

[@seveglider8406]

Billy Ray Smith Sr.? GET REAL!

[@wecandobetter9821]

Howie Long was double and sometimes triple teamed so it’s hard to compare

[@ryandonovan5205]

#7 John Randall.. ..come on man. Try #1 2 or 3

[@charlesroulette5296]

Reggie and Alan missing?

[@mikeoxhertz526]

Reggie white is a Defensive End in a 4-3 alignment, he was not a Defensive Tackle.

[@laudanum669]

I kept scrolling ahead in the video looking for Alan Page and I got to #2 and thought "OK, cool he's going to be #1". NOPE! Big miss dude.

[@Whodeysportscards]

I know, it’s embarrassing. I’m making sure my future videos don’t have such an obvious miss like Page. I will come back and update this at some point, clearly he’s top 2!

[@fitzfitzgerald1110]

Dave Butz would be in there 11 or 12

[@matthewhuszarik4173]

No Reggie White?

[@Junior_Rocky]

Reggie White was a Defensive End.

[@matthewhuszarik4173]

@@Junior_Rocky He played both positions.

[@Whodeysportscards]

I have him on my defensive end vide that I just posted! I see him more as an end than tackle

[@seveglider8406]

Aaron Donald should be in the top 4.

[@alanmoskowitz5779]

Reggie White, all-time sack leader.

[@Whodeysportscards]

I have him at DE

[@Tommy1198S]

Bob Lilly

[@mariadejesusmontalvodesand8812]

Erny holmes #63 former steeler

[@bryantbechtol8128]

No alan page....sorry but no top 10 should not have him in top 4 all time you missed that one big time

[@Whodeysportscards]

Yes, big miss on my part, I will have to get an update out on this one.

[@bryantbechtol8128]

I know its hard to get a top ten ...but alan page was an all time great...thanks for answering though

[@enigma9971]

No Alan Page gets you a thumbs down

[@Whodeysportscards]

That’s fair, definitely screwed up on that one. I will need to update it at some point!

[@archiemitchell5421]

Bob Lilly and Randy White are automatic

[@christophersmith6693]

Art Donovan!??!

[@tygrkhat4087]

First pure defensive player elected to the Hall of Fame. Should have added Donovan and Alan Page and made it a Top 12 list.

[@scottharm3932]

I think he was more of a character than a top 10 DT. Don't get me wrong, he was an excellent player in his day, but not top 10

[@tygrkhat4087]

@@scottharm3932 You don't get to Canton by being a character.

[@littleblackduck3134]

Where's Albert Haynesworth?

[@garyrobson7323]

Where's number 88 the great Allen Page

[@shawnbressler8232]

No alex karras or alan page? No way is this list right.

[@czrad8125]

Bubba smith

[@Whodeysportscards]

Man that knee injury just derailed his career, he was never the same after that.

[@christopherjohnson998]

Jerome Brown

[@edgarmartien2929]

Uhhh, Reggie White?????

[@Whodeysportscards]

I have White as a DE on my other video, check it out!

[@stewartmillen7708]

I'd remove Cortez Kennedy or John Randall, and add Alan Page. Nothing against Kennedy or Randall, but Page definitely should be here. I also would have changed the rankings a bit; I would not have Mean Joe Greene as #1 as his stats were 'meh'. I realize that stats aren't the whole story...a player who has to be doubled and tripled team on almost every play may change a game without racking up big stats, but some of the other players cited here were doubled- and tripled teamed a lot too and still had better stats. And oh when I mean 'stats', I don't just mean sacks. Tackle stats are important too. How well a player plays the run is important too.

[@Whodeysportscards]

Yes, I was thinking the same with Kennedy, probably move him off and maybe even Randle. Move Page into the top 3 and maybe Henry Jordan in top 10. I still think Green could be 1 overall though.

[@stewartmillen7708]

@@Whodeysportscards I'm curious why Greene is #1? Leadership?--yeah, but many of these other DTs were leaders too. Disruption of plays? Innovation in the game?--yes, but some of that (Greene's "tilted 4-3" look at the line of scrimmage) was part of Bud Carson's and Chuck Noll's scheme and innovation. I would agree that Greene was the perfect fit for it. Greene's athleticism in that scheme practically forced a double-team by the opposition. Later, Warren Sapp would play the same role in Tony Dungy's "Tampa 2" defense of the 1990s. But Greene would not have looked so great nor would the Steelers D have been so dominant if it had not had oodles of great players at nearly every position. Even if you draw double-teams on every play, if your teammates are losing their battle you'll still get beat. (Ask Bob Lilly in his early years at Dallas). BTW, Sapp was something of a bust in his first year in Oakland simply because Oakland played a defensive scheme not aligned to Sapp;'s talents, to show you the impact of coaching and scheme. I'd also admit that this applies to other greats on this list. Merlin Olsen benefited from George Allen's D which in some ways was a precursor to Jimmy Johnson's "Miami 4-3", the D-line don't worry about the run or blocking lanes and just get penetration. Olsen also benefited from playing with other greats on the "Fearsome Foursome". Lilly and Randy White benefited from Tom Landry's Flex Scheme, and they too had to have help to win championships. In short, it's hard for me to name a #1; like Nick Wright, the most I can do is 'tiers' of near-equals. I will say this about Randle---the more modern game emphasizes sacks so much I have come to distrust some of the accolades. For instance, take Charles Haley, DE for San Francisco and Dallas, is in the HoF. But you look at Haley's tackle stats, instead of his sack stats, and they're very 'meh'. In Dallas, he averaged like 35 to a bit more than 40 tackles per year. By contrast, John Dutton in his tenure with the Cowboys as DE/DT had 60+-80-ish tackles per year, and was one of the top tacklers on the defense. Even though Dutton was the starter but usually wasn't an every-down player, he had twice the tackles as Haley (He also had 73 sacks in his career, only like 3 shy of Greene). What I'm saying is not to rank Dutton with the greats--he's not-by a long shot--but just to point out that you can get labeled 'great' in today's NFL just because you get a lot of sacks. In the old days, with teams running the ball 50 % of more of the time, you had to do both run D and rush the passer well. I see Fantasy Football and its stat-driven system as bad for the league. Take Lilly again: although he had 15 sacks in 1966, most years he'd have 6, or 8, or even 5 or whatnot. On Lilly's right, DE George Andre had 18 sacks in one year, and usually 10-12+, while on Lilly's left DT Jethro Pugh would routinely have 10-15 (outstanding for a DT). Yet Lilly got the accolades, and he got them because these were generated by opposing coaches and players, and they knew the very reason Andre and Pugh had those sack totals was that teams HAD to double- and triple-team Lilly. Andre and Pugh were very good players, but you couldn't afford to give the players blocking them any help, because of Lilly.

[@thomaschevalier9356]

Eleven bathea Bruce Smith Gerry philban Ben Davidson the list is endless

[@thomasespositio3139]

defensive ends in Davidson and Smith

[@carspiv]

@@thomasespositio3139 All the guys he listed, misspellings and missing punctuation and all, were DEs

[@joelalleman9591]

what about Bruce Smith , he played at the top of his game up until his last play on the field !!! This guy was never given the credit he was due . I am giving an unbiased opinion about Bruce because I wasn't even a Buffalo fan . When I think of Bruce Smith , I can only compare him to Bob Lily because he , along with Bob , played at the top of their game their entire career, unlike many others !! Yes , Alan Page was good through most of his early career ,but; when he got older the offensive lines pushed him around like a rag doll!! Look at what the miami dolphins did to him in the superbowl , and the oakland raiders !!!!!! His greatest asset was his quickness , he was not a very large man like these other guys and when he got older that slight loss of speed cost him dearly. I'll never minimize the player Alan was and the success he had in his younger days !!

[@Whodeysportscards]

I have Smith as a top DE in my other video

[@wynstonsmith7194]

The head slap was made illegal because of Mean Joe Greene

[@johnscritchfield5736]

@@wynstonsmith7194 Deacon Jones

[@RamsLakersDodgers]

@@johnscritchfield5736Thank you.

[@lurking0death]

Alex karras....c'mon.

[@PhillGarcia]

Donald at 5 your.list.is trash

[@Whodeysportscards]

That's fair, he is definitely one of the most dominant of all time, I just had a hard time justifying that he was better than the top 4 players. What's really the travesty is that I forgot about Alan Page completely, he was better than Donald as well!

[@RamsLakersDodgers]

💯

[@scottviverette14]

Warren Sapp over Allen Page give me a break

[@Whodeysportscards]

No, he wouldn’t be if I hadn’t completely missed Page. Page top 3 most likely

[@chouc9816]

No Alan Page... this is a joke

[@MegaStarjames]

BULLSHIT💯

[@michaeltorres5331]

Howie Long definitely should be on this list

[@Whodeysportscards]

He had a great start to his career, but after his second all-pro selection his career was just so-so. I’m actually a little surprised he’s in the hall of fame…tbh

[@ric2097]

My thoughts are the same as most...no Alan Page ?? How or why you missed out on him is unfathomable , with all due respect makes this list suspect

[@Whodeysportscards]

That’s fair, I definitely learned a lesson here, I need to fix this one at some point. I’m making sure I’m doing enough cross-checking on future videos to make sure I don’t make a glaring mistake like this one!

[@ric2097]

@@Whodeysportscards The fact you can admit a possible mistake and taking the time to reply shows me a lot about you personally and I have the upmost confidence you will do better as you've stated...best wishes

[@bigtalk2598]

No Bears? No Alan Page? Horrible video.

[@billwebb5256]

Alan Page? Howie Long?

[@cooltkll]

howie was a de not dt