Top 10 Staples that are BAD in Commander - MTG

[@nickd6303]

Keep in mind that the majority of tokens count as 0 mana permanents, so explosives is a great board wipe to use against token players that amass a creature token army or have a bunch of treasures.

[@Bladeofwar94]

In that case cards like ratchet bomb are just better. The point is a general board wipe is almost always better in commander.

[@NotSoSerious69420]

@@Bladeofwar94 Ratchet is significantly worse what do you mean lol. might be okay ish if you dropped it turn 1 but otherwise have fun ticking it up to do anything, explosives are significantly better. Still bad but better

[@maruke305]

@@NotSoSerious69420 I think you forgot to read the original comment, which mentioned that engineered explosives was good against a tokens deck. Ratchet bomb would be just as good against a tokens deck

[@NotSoSerious69420]

@@maruke305 it’s the same cost, just engineered is 0 cost up front and that’s a relevant upside.

[@GroundThing]

@@NotSoSerious69420 I would argue that both are 2 mana sorceries, effectively, against a token deck, since you're not going to want to play them out before you activate them in most cases, as the token opponent just will stop committing to the board until you use it. So the main benefits to Explosives being 0 Mana value would be for stuff like Urza's Saga. But Ratchet Bomb has the advantage that cost reduction effects or Sun Titan style recursion are more common, and tend to synergize with decks that benefit from the fact that the effect is stapled on an artifact.

[@jordanprice8727]

Fun fact about the “cost” of planeswalker loyalty abilities, a + or - both are considered a cost. So things like Doubling Season and it’s ilk don’t produce double the counters.

[@goozilla132]

You use doubling season to double them as they etb so you're casting them as ultimates

[@amoraswiftstrike3791]

Fun fact: if you have Pir, Imaginative Rascal, your + activations on planeswalkers do get doubled.

[@nubnub8202]

I like how 1 thing is always guaranteed with your magic videos, we will hear you say a card name in a funky way lol

[@asdfghjkl2261]

it's not his fault, he's a yugioh player

[@thewalkingcrow8946]

@@asdfghjkl2261 I'm not sure what that has to do with pronouncing a word correctly. Eidolon isn't a made up word. What most people refer to as a photographic memory is more accurately described as an eidolic memory, which is perfect because a perfect memory doesn't exist which are all things the word means.

[@asdfghjkl2261]

@@thewalkingcrow8946 I was poking fun at the creator for primarily being a YGO player and not an MTG player. Your snippet at the end is unnecessary; I know eidolon isn't a fictional word, but even if I didn't, the fact that spellcheck doesn't flag it is an obvious tip-off.

[@mutawi]

​@@thewalkingcrow8946That would eidetic you're thinking of.

[@paulpower9959]

Okay. Okay. This might be a huge effort but: Every Mechanic Ever and it’s impact on each set and the game as a whole. No doubt this would take a few videos but I think we’d all be here for it!

[@AsterDXZ]

Ah yes, my favorite card. *Eye Dolan of the Great Revel*

[@MM-lv7iy]

According to google, that’s how you pronounce it…

[@AsterDXZ]

@@MM-lv7iy Google is wrong

[@evanczthehunter57]

Surprised that Delver of Secrets wasnt on here. Completely unplayable in commander imo due to how hard it is to flip unless you specifically build your deck with a crapton of instants & sorceries, and even then, it would only be passable on turns 1-3, then quickly be outclassed.

[@TheRedGauntlet]

I guess is included with Murktide Regent so i guess is kinda on the list along side Taromogoyf and Gurmag in that category of efficient beater

[@MrZerodaim]

In a similar fashion, surprised to see KCommand (which doesn't see that much play anymore) instead of Bolt. Bolt is the efficient burn/removal that nearly all red decks play, but that you never see in commander.

[@tlamy1992]

He did mention Delver at 13:50

[@goozilla132]

@@MrZerodaim no idea why kcommand is even on this list. It 2 for ones even in commander. Modal cards offer flexible deck building. Hitting an artifact and recovering a creature at instant speed is still a strong floor for the card.

[@EdwardSmith-o7j]

Coming from a cEDH player what is really interesting is that many of these options would be reasonable in low color stax decks

[@badvoodoo2097]

Kologhans command is still good Good for removal or to hit a walker Discard on a player to hate Returning a creature card back to your hand is huge Can blow up a mana rock or devastating artifact Works amazing with the newer enchantment bombardment the whenever you cast your first instant or sorcery each turn exile a spell from your graveyard at random and you may copy each card exiled this way

[@nickhughes8179]

Is Engineered Explosives any good in 5 color builds??

[@22sfs22]

Before watching my predictions are Bolt, the MH2 elementals, one fo the miryad counterspells that don't really do much in commander like spell pierce or misstep, goif, death's shadow, delver of secrets/murktide and Yorion.

[@blazedehart2748]

9:35 i must only ever play in competitive pods cause Eidolon is an absolute powerhouse in Commander.

[@pablowarcraft]

As an only commander player I just found out that the "shitty" engineered explosives has some real value. Damn

[@yummines]

I think it's kind of weird that you didn't mention some popular single target red burn spells, like Lightning Bolt or Shock. Sure you see them a lot on websites like EDHREC, but generally even red burn in EDH don't play spells like that, for obvious reasons. For spells like those to see play usually they have to either cantrip, hit all opponents, be repeatable (such as having storm on it), or are a commander. Also, funny that you made a spot specifically for planeswalkers since there is the deck archetype built around them (Superfriends) and certain planeswalkers are allowed to be used as commanders themselves.

[@kylewarne1265]

A lot of folks still run Bolt as efficient spot removal, especially in Mono red when you're lacking more flexible options.

[@delathenleso5793]

@@kylewarne1265 *shrug* bad scriptwriter is bad? Or more accurately, non-Commander channel fails at commander vids?

[@garcardosotan6172]

@@delathenleso5793 This in a nutshell. The video maker bother doesn't understand commander, and probably doesn't understand magic as a whole. His main channel is a Yugioh channel.

[@williamdrum9899]

Really? I almost never see it played at all.

[@The1AndOnlyGoldenboy]

Wow, just a disappointing amount of wrong info in this one. Yes, Planeswalkers are a mixed bag in Commander. However, when you make a deck dedicated to having as many of them on board as possible (Superfriends), some really janky things can happen even in Commander. I'm personally partial to Narset Superfriends, and when your board becomes "I cast everything for free, and Proliferate for everything I cast, and use multiple Ultimates each turn, AND I get multiple turns back to back" people literally get angry and quit... and that's assuming you don't luck your way into Approach of the Second Sun early on and win the game after attacking twice with your Commander. Engineered Explosives is a solid card. Yes, it shines against decks that crap out tokens, but what a lot of people fail to realize is that it's fantastic to just gain control of the game's tempo... solely because so many mana rocks cost the same. If you play at a high level, you're bound to see stuff like Sol Talisman, Chrome Mox, Mox Amber and Mox Diamond. 2 mana to blow all of those up for everyone? Amazing. Even if it's not super competitive, you'll still see Sol Rings, Arcane Signets, Talismans, etc. 4 mana to nuke all that for everyone? Still pretty solid. You can even see some really good decks running Chromatic Lantern, Commander's Sphere, Decanter of Endless Water, Heraldic Banner, Mana Geode and more. 5 mana to destroy all that? It'll definitely piss people off. Not a BAD card at all. Kolaghan's Command sees a good amount of play in 2-4 color decks that have both Red and Black. Yes, the typical usage it'd have in Modern or Pioneer, to destroy both a creature and artifact, isn't likely to be used... but the utility of having 2 effects for 3 mana and ALL of them being good is just solid enough to see fairly regular use. No, it won't be in every deck like it is in other formats, but it definitely isn't BAD. Agree with the rest though. Just the first 3rd that was frustrating.

[@CaptainCorgo]

12:00 Monder

[@anthonydelfino6171]

While Ruric Thar is definitely a good comparison to Eidolon, I'd say even more so in commander, Painful Quandary is a card with a similar effect I've seen in play much more often, possibly because it's easier to slot into decks being mono black than the red-green Ruric Thar. Additionally Painful Quandary is one-sided where Ruric Thar hits you too.

[@williamdrum9899]

Usually the person playing Ruric Thar is ok with the extra damage. Taking 6 to the dome once isn't a big deal. Twice, it becomes a problem.

[@anthonydelfino6171]

@@williamdrum9899 you're talking about Ruric Thar as a commander, though, which is different from how I took this video, as a card good in the format. It is a good card, but if it's not your commander, then Painful Quandry is easier to slot into a deck, and has the benefit not effecting you.

[@robertomacetti7069]

i completely disagree on sinkhole in commander there are a lot of problematic lands played almost everywhere that require a spot removal, gaea's cradle just to name one that must be blown up on sight granted, most of the target land removal tends to be on other lands, like stripmine or his budget counterpart ghost quarter, to save space for more useful spells but sinkhole and his kind are everything but a bad effect

[@garcardosotan6172]

Beast Within, and such effects that take care of a PERMANENT are better options cause Land Destruction is frowned upon.

[@robertomacetti7069]

@@garcardosotan6172 only MASS land destruction is frowned upon If you blow up a gaeia's cradle usually other 2 people start applauding in a commander table

[@garcardosotan6172]

@@robertomacetti7069 Yes, which I said earlier. Sorry for not clarifying in this post. I understand destroying a Coffers or Cradle, but outside of those, no one blows up a triome is what I mean. Big play lands are always warranted to removal.

[@williamdrum9899]

I think wasteland is better at that job overall

[@akitoemery8651]

I think Lightning Bolt should be #1. It's probably a top 5 most used non basic lands in the game, and is the most used red card in the game but it's considered pretty bad in edh.

[@kris834]

Ehh it's not that bad, can kill a lot of commanders now a days, even some utility creatures.

[@garcardosotan6172]

If it was, then the video maker would out himself as knowing absolutely nothing about magic. Bolt the Bird is a very useful thing, even in commander

[@williamdrum9899]

I think it's just a worse Swords to Plowshares most of the time.

[@jamespeterson1708]

I love this music 🎼

[@nanceskiinanceskii4674]

Mental misstep is banned in legacy but sees almost no play in commander, I'm surprised that wasn't on the list

[@vxicepickxv]

Can't be a staple if it's banned.

[@sirshylordy5538]

misstep sees a TON of play in cedh

[@nanceskiinanceskii4674]

@@vxicepickxv I mean it's a staple in vintage

[@garcardosotan6172]

@@sirshylordy5538

[@williamdrum9899]

It's not worth it except in cedh. You're losing card advantage to do very little and you're making an enemy turn 1. Not very sound tactics

[@fulanodominicano]

You don't personally like Commander do you? :P

[@garcardosotan6172]

He clearly just doesn't play.

[@dsnake10]

You lost me at Jace Mind Scultptor, he is one of the only answers to most new cards like Jin Gitaxias Progress Tyrant and many others, while not as good as in other formats Jace is still a BEAST in a combo based meta where combat is waaaaay less used thanks to combo pieces being more important, go back to YuGiOh friend, you suck at this.

[@tyrusdalet]

JTMS is so much worse in EDH compared to other walkers like Narset, Parter of the Veils, Oko, Thief of Crowns, and Nissa, Who Shakes the World. Sure he’s playable, but he’s far from a meta PW

[@gnogara]

I play cEdh only, consume cEdh content everywhere, and never have I seen a JTMS, and I don't think it gets more "combo meta" then that. Maybe it's used in combo metas that aren't cEdh? But then you agree with him that the card isn't that great.

[@dsnake10]

@@gnogara Go watch Playing with Power, old SCG VS stuff, KO Commander, etc etc. The fact you don't see it doesn't mean IS not played, EDH REC has Jace at 2% of decks, think thats low?, Collector Ouphe is at 3% and KARN THE GREAT CREATOR WHICH IS A STAPLE IN REAL CEDH IS AT 1%. Nobody gives a crap about your "consumption", MATH IS MATH and Jace IS played more than Karn and many other important cards, let a Jace live, you lose. Your table is really low level, that's all, blame that on your group not CEDH.

[@dsnake10]

@@tyrusdalet OP says it's BAD in commander, BAD. You read that part of the title?, one thing is not BEING mainstream and an auto include in blue and another whole different thing is being BAD. You people can't debate without reading first you know?. FFS.

[@gnogara]

5 mana is for a game winning spell like ad nauseum. 4 Mana needs an effect really close to that, and Jace really isn't it. What does it do against those fast decks like Inalla or those with worldgorger dragon/thoracle? Better yet, surely you know of cedh-decklist-database, right? Where groups of people spend months/years brewing the decks, and basically no one, not even the azorius staxs decks, run JTMS. Almost every table I play threatens a turn 1 or 2 win, you can't have the luxury of paying 4 mana for a walker that gives only a small tempo advantage.

[@RatedManatee]

I've seen a fair amount of Kolaghan's Command in Commander.

[@hallaloth3112]

I was going to say, the ability to return a creature from the graveyard and then either forcing a discard midgame when someone has no other cards in hand OR nuking a low toughness creature that sits for utility isn't bad if they don't have a counter for it. Smaller creatures do see play if they have some utility.

[@lysander3262]

I haven't seen many but agree that it's theoretically good. Taking out an opposing Stax piece and recurring something like a Dockside Extortionist would be the theoretical highest value use and likely worth 3 mana even in cEDH. In regular Commander, even something like taking out one player's Storm-Kiln Artist and another player's Lightning Greaves would be quite spicy. Or kill an opposing Priest of Titania and a Sol Ring. Probably a roleplayer in any BR/X spells matter deck like Kess or Prosper.

[@TransformersBoss]

The Commands and Confluences see a lot of play at my LGS. The huge amount of value you get is great in Commander

[@uglyaniimals]

@@TransformersBoss commands / confluences are def great in commander, it's just that kolaghan's command is probably one of the worst ones in the format which is the exact opposite of how it normally is (same with atarka's command, altho idk how much modern / pioneer play that sees these days)

[@CobaltDraco]

I feel like Jace is the perfect rep for the 10th spot. Planeswalkers do see play, but usually in very specific decks, like Superfriends. Jace, however, has two really big issues. First, his abilities scale poorly in multiplayer (only targeting one player and not in ways especially meaningful in commander) and the fact that his ultimate, for all its power, can’t be used immediately if doubling season is down like many planeswalkers, as this is a common tactic in superfriends. And even with doubling season, you couldn’t even use it on the next turn.

[@jaythepizza7600]

Doubling Season doesn’t work with planeswalkers

[@CobaltDraco]

@BlackMage Ah, I can see how I was misunderstood. Yeah, I didn't mean with the normal abilities of planeswalkers.

[@anthonydelfino6171]

I only really play planewalkers in decks if they have a plus or zero ability that adds synergy to what my deck is trying to do, and if their ultimate is either unattanable or nonthreatening. I do run Jace in my Yuriko deck.... but then I 0 him since for me, he's just a more expensive Brainstorm, which is kind of what Yuriko wants.

[@anthonydelfino6171]

@@jaythepizza7600 yes it does. Planeswalkers enter with loyalty COUNTERS, and Doubling Season will double any kind of counter added to a permanent, meaning that planeswalkers enter with twice their initial loyalty when their owner has Doubling Season in play.

[@naomicoffman1315]

@@jaythepizza7600 It doubles their starting loyalty, but not the loyalty they gain from their plus abilities. Check the rulings on Doubling Season.

[@aegisofhonor]

the best discard spells are the ones that make ALL opponents discard cards like Mind Swords, Death Cloud, or Delirium Skeins or is much better in Commander then a single discard spell like Thoughtseize.

[@deathgardna]

or discard spells that make 1 opponent discard ALL their cards.

[@oinkytheink1228]

@@deathgardna Unless you have a way to copy it 2 times

[@swain1153]

Why do you keep wanting yourself to discard. Use tasigurs cruelty to hit only opps for 1 mana

[@anthonydelfino6171]

@@oinkytheink1228 there's always that Simic player at the table with 30 cards in hand. Sometimes it's just easier to make that one player discard their entire hand so you can get on with the game.

[@oinkytheink1228]

@@anthonydelfino6171 *cough cough* wheels *cough cough*

[@MatthewOstergren]

I think Murktide Regent would be a likely include in any spellslinger deck in EDH that isn't already eating it's entire graveyard too, too much. It's a pretty efficient threat that lets you leave mana open for instants. I'd definitely play it in the WBR spellslinger deck if I owned one.

[@delathenleso5793]

The problem is that while an 8/8 Flyer will CLOSE games of Modern or Legacy, in Commander it's just a slightly bigger than average beater that you had to jump through a bunch of hoops for and is extremely vulnerable to a boardwipe. It's not a bad card in Commander, but it's more a "I'd like an additional Flyer for blocks or to threaten a Planeswalker" than a meaningful payoff to be working towards.

[@anthonydelfino6171]

It's not as good as you might think, especially when you'd rather reuse the spells in your graveyard than use them to make a creature that's just as susceptible to a Path to Exile/Swords to Plowshares/Reality Shift/Chaos Warp/Beast Within.... as anything else. A card more like Backdraft Hellkite is going to do a lot more to speed up spellslinger decks, which often win with things like Aetherflux Reservoir than a Murktide Regent will.

[@williamdrum9899]

I don't know. It seems like you'd have to delve away a significant number of spells to play it to begin with. Which kind of works against itself. I'd rather use Palinchron for that, it's a 4/5 flier for 5UU that refunds the mana spent on it

[@DAsrada]

Jace is right for 10 slot. In decks like Aminatou he fits right in. And 9 is right. Glissa the Traitor can do mean things with it.

[@anthonydelfino6171]

Jace works well in Yuriko as well who would rather hit a 4-mana Brainstorm off her ability than a 1 mana version.

[@TransformersBoss]

Something I’d put on the list is “counter target spell unless its controller pays X” cards. Cards like Daze, Spell Pierce, and Mystical Dispute are super competitive and playable in Legacy, Modern, and Standard because those formats have tight curves. Commander usually doesn’t have as tight a curve, your opponents often have enough mana to pay the cost. This is especially true when you consider that, in Commander, you generally need to be more stingy with your removal and counters, since going 1 for 1 in Commander isn’t as good as in 1v1 formats, so if you save the counter for something important, like a win-con, your opponent VERY probably has the mana to pay it off.

[@EmeraldCrowley]

YOU CAN RIP MY HALL OF STORM GIANTS FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS, I WON'T STOP RUNNING IT!!!!! lol. In all seriousness, I pretty much only run it in a Commander Control shell or in my dedicated "Oops All Lands" deck

[@damsaucy]

the other thing you're missing on sinkhole is that commander, unlike modern or pioneer or legacy, is the "casual format", is generally focused around fun rather than competitiveness (with exceptions, obviously). given this, land destruction is generally frowned upon, seen as unfun by the community, and thus has avoided being played at the lower power level tables that dominate commander.

[@zachhogan7865]

Yeah man. Most folks don't wanna play with people that drop an Armageddon at the table in FMN, it's annoying and the rule 0 discussion is very important when playing with randoms at a game night.

[@williamdrum9899]

The worst thing about mass land destruction is that it's purely a win-more effect. It won't help you unless you're already winning. If you really want to secure the current board state, you're better off with possibility storm or teferi's puzzle box

[@ReyosBlackwood]

Analysis of Kolaghan's command is way off. With the amount of good mana sources coming from artifacts in EDH, bloing up someone's gilded or nyx lotus can be a massive value, to say nothing of killing Puzzle Box against a Nekusar draw deck, and returning cards from your graveyard in a singleton format is much more useful than in other constructed formats.

[@joshuaspector8182]

As a mono black player, I run the fuck out of thoughtseize effects. Only way to protect my combos. That and maybe imps Mischief. One time a buddy asked “what do you do if you get countered?” …. Usually lose. Search for one of my backups 😂

[@alexloeher8628]

I love how he explains in depth keywords that anyone whose played Magic for 2 seconds would know like flying, then drops more obscure slang like "stax" in passing like everyone knows what it is lol I also enjoy his verbatim reading of card effects while they're already on screen

[@RebelFM908]

This list hurts so much. Murktide, Aether Vial, and kind of Sinkhole were hits. But man off base on pretty much everything else. Feels like people advised on this consistently play 2 hour single games of commander.

[@TransformersBoss]

Another note on why creature-lands are so good: they generally won’t die to board-wipes, since they’re lands during your opponent’s turn. So even if the opponent wraths, you’ll still be able to lay on the pressure

[@williamdrum9899]

In commander I'm not a huge fan of them. The opportunity cost of animating one seems very steep since you have to remember they effectively cost 1 more since you need them untapped to be of use. The only one I like is Colonnade since it at least has vigilance.

[@SomeGuy712x]

(0:22) Oops, you put "Mana Cost of 3" in the text there, but that Jace costs 4, not 3. (11:56) LOL, "Monder" in the text there, which should be "Modern".

[@calemr]

Engineered explosives can still be decent IF you know your opponents run token decks. Even if you don't know, it's pretty popular to run, so in a 4 way game, you can certainly expect a few. 0 to play (Great for decks that care about playing artifacts), then 2 to destroy all tokens whenever you want. It's not as much of a powerhouse, but it's still viable.

[@joelmccabe1610]

SUGGESTION: 10/20 Best Sliver cards. It would also prompt lists similar to Goblin one you made.

[@lysander3262]

Gemhide Manaweft Quick Cloudshredder Crystalline The Legendary ones End of list

[@Orrphoiz]

I would also like to see the opposite list, top 10 cards that are really bad in regular Magic, but extremely GOOD in commander cc:

[@elsewhereprince3969]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/raace6eDn99rmLc

[@linlin110]

They already made a video for this. kzbin.info/www/bejne/raace6eDn99rmLc

[@williamdrum9899]

Pretty much anything that is better the more opponents you have would fit the bill. But he'd probably roll all that into one entry for variety.

[@ReyosBlackwood]

Man lands analysis is straight up wrong here. Though Hall of the Storm Giants is going to be a rarer choice, since usually you go with the dual colored man lands and ones with lower activation cost, man lands are a big thing in commander still. They are blockers when you need them (particularly the ones that include white and have flying or reach), get around a lot of kill spells (non-land permanent) survive most field wipes since they aren't creatures when those are being cast. Hall is one of the worst with that 7 mana activation but I see Stirring Wildwood, Raging Ravine, Celestial Colonade and even Den of the Bugbear and Cave of the Frost Dragon in EDH decks.

[@chriskessler442]

Hold why are you limiting Arther Vial to only low mana creatures, yeah if you get it out turn one you can’t use it right off the bat but I’ve seen commander games go on for over 10 turns sometimes and Aether Vial is perfect for those kind of games

[@blazedehart2748]

15:19 Thoughtseize is an absolute must include effect in Mono Black decks. Thoughtseize type cards are the only way that mono black is able to protect combos from counter spells.

[@shondralyon-brown1603]

As I was watching this video, I felt like I was just thinking of situations where some of these cards could be good. If you regularly play with the same group of people and some one has, for instance, a Maze of Ith a Sinkhole would be a wonderful card.

[@williamdrum9899]

I feel like the problem with sinkhole is that it's outclassed by Wasteland and Strip Mine. Cards that can be played in any deck and only "cost" one mana instead of two.

[@TherosonDragonstoungue]

Baulders gate set is legal in commander, ergo, you can use displacer kitten to +0 Jace several times in one turn to mil someone 10% of their deck each +0

[@samw9906]

Aether VIal works wonders in Atraxa proliferate decks my dude, just need the first counter then you can proliferate to the counters you need, than if you need you can use power conduit to remove the charge counters, or Use Invasion of Fiora to be able to completely reset it once you destroy the battle and get Marchesa.

[@GreatgoatonFire]

Top 10 ways Logs says Eidolon in this video. j/k Loved this video.

[@lunamaruguest3229]

right off the rip planeswalker's are weak? clearly never fought a super friends commander deck lmao! as for the rest id say accurate.

[@dylansylvester4719]

I sometimes slot land destruction into my my wort the raidmother deck. Being able to copy a plow under or rain of salt is absolutley back breaking

[@blaze556922]

Engineered explosives is great and so is aether vial. Who told you they weren't commander playable?

[@TheRedneckBudha]

I combo eidolon with the ank of Mishra and zozu the punisher in edh that combo will make the table hate you throw in a furnace of Rath to double it and your good

[@jacobbrown9894]

Honestly I haven’t really touched other formats since Covid started so I was ignorant that Hall of the Storm Giants was a staple

[@Hakzer]

I swear this guy has almost no idea what hes talking about half the time with these random takes

[@psilimit]

I don't play any of these in commander, but that's not important. I hardly see these at all at my LGS.

[@garcardosotan6172]

Wow, so very wrong in almost every aspect... I would agree if you are talking about CEDH, the smallests part of the format. Competitive Commander as it is more commonly known. Only four cards on this list are accurate... So either you talked to a CEDH player, you looked up decks on EDHREC, or you don't fully grasp commander? Jace... Sees play all the time. When he doesn't it's usually cause he is so potent too. There is a weird rule in commander that has you put threats on board to keep players from hitting your life, and his third effect is useful enough and cheap enough that if you can keep him on board you will benefit. This is one of two exceptions on this list that will see play in CEDH cause some people like this guy in decks like Urza cause it's easy to cast and can remove a Vampiric Tutor search. Use to play in a CEDH league before covid and the guy in CHARGE of the league had this in three of his decks.

[@williamdrum9899]

Honestly I rarely see any of these cards played, and whenever I've played JTMS it's underwhelming at best.

[@T4N7]

Technically Vial can do something the turn u play it it can allow ur 0 mana creatures to be uncounterable

[@MrAskmannen]

A great 1v1 spell like Hymn to Tourach is outscaled by the very underrated skull rend imo

[@welbenn]

How the head in Surgical Extraction is standing without the skull?

[@vDeadbolt]

Another thing to mention, land destruction is looked down upon in commander. So people do run them less.

[@raynmanshorts9275]

Joke's on you. I play all of these in my Progenitus deck.

[@Prince_Eva_Huepow]

Aether's Vial can end up as dead on-field if it has too many charge counters on it which is far more possible with how much longer you can last with 40 life compared to other formats. Though using it for BFM would be something.

[@williamdrum9899]

You don't have to uptick the Vial. But it seems like one of those cards that isn't good if you don't get it in your starting hand. With the larger deck size and only one copy you're probably not getting it. Unlike Sol Ring, which is good both early and late game, Vial gets much worse as the game goes on.

[@thetimebinder]

Engineered Explosives gets use in Commander because it can repeatedly kill off tokens. It's brutal in Glissa

[@garcardosotan6172]

Also removes Sol Rings, and Signets, and mana dorks... The list goes on for here.

[@williamdrum9899]

Pernicious Deed is also very oppressive for that reason

[@ryanblake7114]

i love murktide reagent, i run him in my dragon's approach deck because they're gonna exile themselves so it just makes sense to get a little extra value out of it

[@bernardlivingston7021]

Regarding planeswalkers that's not true in commander they're actually more powerful considering you have better ways to protect them especially in atraxa or prismatic bridge decks and cards like doubling season also helps imo there's only a handful of cards not playable or just bad in commander

[@garcardosotan6172]

Not to mention the expense. XD

[@williamdrum9899]

I think JTMS is worse than original Jace for commander. The +2 party draw is something that most players won't want to remove. Usually they'll whittle him down just enough to prevent the -10 effect but he's paid for himself after 5 turns of extra card draw

[@chapmanandchapmanproductio974]

Commander sounds so annoying , you have to chelc with each a homevv by you play like just play ass homes !!!! Omaytyt

[@garcardosotan6172]

It's not. Commander is a very inviting community that will let CEDH players play against casual when we are feeling like it. But yes, most of the time we ask about deck power levels. Cause unlike the crap formates like Modern, Standard, and Yugioh< Which I am using to prove my point. We like games that last over an hour instead of less then 5 minutes a run.

[@darkmatter32x]

Eidolon can be used against those pesky players who use dramatic reversal on the stick and among other infinite combo decks.

[@garcardosotan6172]

Likely though, it will kill YOU first as you are likely in mono red. It's one of the few cards right on this list

[@anthonydelfino6171]

I think Sinkhole might start to see a little more play over time as targeted land removal is becoming ever more valuable as there start to be more and more individual lands that need to be answered, and mass land destruction is still a taboo. Being able to Sinkhole a Gaea's Cradle, Vault of Catlacan, or Field of the Dead is really good, though being sorcery speed does still hurt the card, and might by where you'd still see more effects like Strip Mine or Wasteland being played instead. Also not on the list, and not exactly BAD in commander.... but I'd add that the Onslaught and Zendikar fetch lands are FAR less powerful in commander. Generally speaking, your fetch lands in this format are just there to fix your colors, since you rarely will combo them with something like Brainstorm to shuffle away the cards in hand you don't need. And to that end, for most players and decks, cards like Evolving Wilds will work just as well. Additionally not being able to run multiple copies of of shock lands means there are fewer targets for those lands to find (though that list is increasing) They really just seem to be there more, at least in my view, as a way of signaling to other players that you're trying to play a high power level deck.

[@garcardosotan6172]

Rule 0 for commander means you don't target lands. This is why beast within is so good cause you can take out a Cabal Coffers, or anything else if your opponents are not running power 9 lands.

[@anthonydelfino6171]

@@garcardosotan6172 Not sure what you're referring to as none of the Power 9 are lands... But I would say that more accurately the unspoken rule is no MASS land destruction. Targeted I think people are more and more okay with. Almost every deck I have now I run a Wasteland and a Strip Mine since there's always some land at the table that has to be answered. Field of the Dead is another that can be a big problem unless you remove it, and most people at the table will agree with you if you say that. But even before then, I was still always running cards that could just incidentally hit lands like Beast Within you mentioned and Chaos Warp, and no one was having major problems when you did use those to hit lands.

[@uphillwalrus5164]

Thoughtseize is occasionally played in nonblue cedh decks

[@aldotrioksidi]

While Sinkhole is a valid pick, it still has some niche uses, such as in Xiahou Dun decks

[@marcoottina654]

Nice analysis! a Part 2 would be awesome :D VIDEO IDEA: I've put the "3 or more cards bad combo that actually work" idea on your video titled _Banned Legacy Cards Part 7 - Broken Draw Spells and Combo Cards_ here you can find a list of those combos I've implemented :D

[@jeremiahchamberlain4179]

Love your vids thanks so much

[@4137Swords]

Is Commander always played with 4 players? I thought it was just however many people want to play

[@UnuUO]

it can be played with more or less but it’s traditionally played with 4 players and CEDH is always played in 4 player pods.

[@williamdrum9899]

Usually 4 but it's a game for 2 or more players. Most decks are built around having 3 opponents.

[@bunrakku]

I believe Aether Vial still has some value in "cheating out creatures" when restrictions are played

[@anthonydelfino6171]

The problem is the singleton nature of the format means any card you draw only has a 1% chance of being Aether Vial (unless you tutor for it) and drawing it to play on turn 7 means you're getting a free 1 drop when you should be playing something much more threatening than an Esper Sentinel.

[@williamdrum9899]

It's only good if you open with it. If you don't it's poo.

[@Postpar]

I play JTM in my super friends. Deck doesn't have a single creature in it. the entire deck is just planewalkers and ways to protect them. one of my favorites is tutoring up dueling grounds and humility to unsure I have no friends after that game is over

[@cerebralisk]

discard that you get to choose is pretty perfect for tergrid since that's actually 'choose which permanent i want from your hand' but as you say specific commanders can make many cards substantially better

[@aslino]

What is this music?

[@amunkeyboy]

It should be mentioned that surgical extraction is sometimes played if you have to deal with eldrazis due to their ability to shuffle themselves and your graveyard into your library if you're playing some sort of mill deck.

[@danielcrowley162]

Thoughtsieze is fantastic.... with Tergrid as your commander. Otherwise, yeah not very helpful

[@garcardosotan6172]

Wrong, it's an insane way to slow down a player, and remove a tutored card. Try using it sometime, you will be shocked.

[@danielcrowley162]

@@garcardosotan6172 Tergrid says when a player discards a permanent, it etbs under your control. Thoughtsieze lets me choose what I steal from them. If my commander isn't on the field it is as bad as you say yes

[@garcardosotan6172]

@@danielcrowley162 Read again. I am saying it's a good card that sees a lot of play. Not bad, good.

[@danielcrowley162]

@@garcardosotan6172 Ah... I swear I passed english class lol

[@parallax-821]

Link to music?

[@thomasfplm]

Death's Shadow

[@exaveron]

fatal push

[@illakunsaa]

Thoughtseize and similar effects are great in commander. The ability to check whether opponent has interaction to your play is very good. The reason why Seize don't see play is that it is a very skill testing card, it is not a "fun"* card and it costs €€. *I don't mean unfun just that it isn't very exiting to play for the average player. A doom blade is more exiting or a big demon.

[@williamdrum9899]

More so in cedh really. Early game it just makes an enemy. And given the singleton nature of decks it's not likely their best cards are in their opening hand.

[@ulissestiburcio7184]

I consume much content FROM this man. Cool card vids

[@joeldykman7591]

Engineered explosives has niche use as a token sweeper and a cheerio piece for jhiora decks.

[@jangrokortenhaus3036]

Explosives and Thoughtseize. Explosives in Jhoira or other artifact commander that can use it as value and thoughtseize in Tergrid.

[@jangrokortenhaus3036]

@themanalogs pls have a look

[@vincento2580]

I can't wait for one of these lists where the number 1 is an actual literal staple

[@RandomPerson964]

That would be a good April fool's video.

[@garcardosotan6172]

I look forward to a video of his that is actually accurate about magic.

[@williamdrum9899]

I'm surprised this isn't an un-card yet.

[@sagacious03]

Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!

[@MihaelGeng]

LOL Though Hall of Storm Giants is no staple, it's definitely not BAD. It's even an ideal land for mono blue or 2-color decks - a land that has late game (or post board wipe) usage. People constantly run the worst MDFC lands, even in 3-color or freaking 5-color decks, so how is this bad?

[@MrZerodaim]

Yeah, Hall isn't as good of an endgame clock as it is in other formats, but I wouldn't put it on this list. It's still a 7/7 body, you can take a hit or two, but it adds up quickly. Being a land by default and having ward 3 when animated means it's pretty hard to remove. Also, while the 6 mana is a steep activation cost for just one use, many decks can quickly get way more than needed and, here's the big thing, you don't even have to activate it for it to be useful! Just keep the mana open. No one's going to send their creature at you when you can make a 7/7 and kill it for free. And if nothing happens, just use some instant to draw etc. Also, holding 7 mana in blue represents Cyclonic Rift, so there's no drawback really. For the low cost of entering tapped when you've already finished the early game ramp, that's well worth it.

[@jacksonreynolds7433]

That's the thing with creature lands. There's SO little cost to playing them. Especially in highlander formats

[@kaleus7145]

engineered explosives is hardly *bad* in commander imo, it’s not the best thing in the world but with how much of a hoser culling ritual is ime i doubt explosives is just terrible

[@williamdrum9899]

I'd rather use Pernicious Deed

[@burnsida]

7:49 Technically, vial can be used to put something like Dryad Arbor into play as it is a 0 cost creature, or any other creature without a mana cost, as its mana value is 0.

[@alexscott1592]

Dryad Arbor and Asmor are the only creatures that could be vialed in that you can't just cast for 0, and aether vial is probably the worst way to play those

[@Mirvana]

JTMS is great in (and should really only be considered for inclusion in) decks that care about the top card of the library, for the utility of his Brainstorm ability. If you don't have effects like Oracle of Mul Daya, Bolas's Citadel, Melek Izzet Paragon, etc., JTMS is definitely not gonna do as much work as he can in 60-card formats. Same for Brainstorm itself.

[@garcardosotan6172]

It's more that in the 99, he is not a card to tutor for, and you do have to spend almost 50 dollars as of current to get one.

[@williamdrum9899]

@@garcardosotan6172 From my experience he really underperforms in Commander. 1v1 he's an absolute monster but not with 3 opponents. Usually I would get off one brainstorm and then he would die.

[@garcardosotan6172]

@@williamdrum9899 In blue is is amazing Avacyn Removal. He lets you go through some cards then put any two back on top of your library. He has a great ultimate, and like most planeswalkers he is a target to save your life, or to pull attacks so you can try to force kill another creature an opponent has.

[@vxicepickxv]

Show and Tell is incredibly niche in Commander, and is a legacy staple for cheating out better cards.

[@williamdrum9899]

I'm just too afraid to use it. What if my opponents' plays are more dangerous than mine?

[@nightingaleseraph]

jace is really good in yuriko for when you draw your big CMC cards.

[@anthonydelfino6171]

Agreed, and also I would add that Yuriko would rather reveal a 4-mana version of Brainstorm than the classic 1-mana version.

[@TheRedGauntlet]

Hal of Storm Giants is an odd inclusion on this lsit. Isn't bad at all

[@GroundThing]

Hall can't really be bad, as its floor is as a ETB tapped blue land, but a 7/7 for 7 each turn is pretty bad, and ward basically just makes up for the fact that if they kill it they stone rain you, so they now at least have to pay the cost of that stone rain. But Hall is good because if you get to 7 mana in most formats, you probably don't have much to do with the mana at that point anyway and a 7/7 with upkeep 7 will get you there, but in commander there are a lot more playable 7+ mana spells, not to mention 5 ot 6 drops that you'd still rather spend your mana on, so it's a lot closer to its floor than in other formats.

[@garcardosotan6172]

In commander, you don't make your lands creatures cause they become fair game. If you watch players use War of the Spark Nissa, they will use her first ability and do nothing with it besides the loyalty.

[@7Alberto7]

Amazing

[@welcomefire]

I really hate that wotc decided land destruction had to go for ruining the fun, but counterspell was fine.

[@williamdrum9899]

I wouldn't mind something in between. Like "Destroy four target nonbasic lands. Exile this spell." for 4RR wouldn't be that bad.

[@lovetownsend]

If Planeswalkers had a special rule in commander only be attacked by 1 player a turn cycle, they'd be played so much more

[@delathenleso5793]

Why would they? Planeswalkers are fine in Commander, you just play ones that have immediate payoffs rather than hoping they'll survive a full turn cycle. It's the same reason you don't play Beledros Witherbloom in Pioneer: the 'Every upkeep' clause doesn't offset the huge mana investment. Different cards are better in different formats; it's literally the entire point of "made for commander" products.

[@lovetownsend]

@@delathenleso5793 kzbin.info/www/bejne/a3jKl5-pmLSgjZo

[@garcardosotan6172]

Planeswalkers still see play at the time. Even the shittier ones who are literally there for 1 thing see loads of decks use them cause they are good as nets around a life total as well. Planeswalker = Threat on Board. No care if they are great or terrible.

[@williamdrum9899]

It depends on who you play. Of course JTMS is getting attacked on sight. Party draw jace? Not so much.

[@cartergreen2309]

While I agree with the planeswalker logic, Jace is certainly not BAD in commander. It is definitely worse but it's still very playable

[@williamdrum9899]

I prefer walkers that cost much less like W6 or ones that people don't mind having out like Jace Beleren. One thing I've learned is that a PW's "ult" is just flavor text in commander. It shouldn't be considered when evaluating the card most of the time. Mostly because without Doubling Season it's rare to ever get there.

[@MageSkeleton]

i loved this video, if somehow you wouldn't mind throwing together a "part 2" or a "10 to 6" list it would be amazing. About thoughtseize though, yes it's least likely to see any play in commander but these types of effects area actually really good when there's only one or two blue players and yourself either one of those players or not playing blue. Cards like Thoughtseize, Duress, Dread Fugue, and Grief are basically blacks version of counterspells but as you noted they are terrible unless you know what cards are in your opponents hands and there's only a few artifacts that let you even look at any cards reliably. Urza's Glasses, and Lanturn of Insight. Unless you play blue then you can literally just play Telepathy or Zur's Weirding along with other options. i swear blue does everything.

[@garcardosotan6172]

Thoughtseize is used all the time.

[@delathenleso5793]

LMAO "Lots of staples that are good in Magic" Do you even know how popular Commander is compared to old Magic? More people learn about the rules of Magic through Commander than anywhere else - and they play more Commander than any other format. Part of that is that Standard has been a dumpster fire for a few years and is only recently beginning to recover, but most of it is because Magic is just too expensive and "solved" in the eternal formats for new players to easily get into them. The Pandemic ensured that Draft wasn't a thing long before the weak sets of the last few years did, and while Kamigawa and now Dominaria are starting a resurgence of Draft, even that format hasn't healed yet.

[@OberynTheRedViper]

Seriously. Learn how to pronounce words you don’t know. You literally used 6 different ways to pronounce “eidolon” and not one of them was correct. Painful to listen to.

[@josephwodarczyk977]

But that's the best part of videos.