Top 10 Weirdest Talents from Vanilla WoW Talent Trees

[@grit1]

You didn't live until you were out of mana as a druid and whacked things with your staff for 10% more damage, so worth the points

[@Howtard]

Hey now, they totally fixed it by letting us get mana back for melee hits

[@Xylarxcode]

As a mage who picked Alchemy as a profession, I always laughed at those poor souls that got oom super quick. Back then, we still had mana gems and as an alchemist, I had a steady flow of mana pots at the ready at all times. You could still use multiple pots while in combat then, although there was a CD on them. Also, evocation was a thing. You basically never ran oom, if you knew what you were doing. I recall many times where a druid would run to a corner of the room and try not to get hit by anything until he recovered enough mana to shapeshift again. It was pretty hilarious.

[@marcleblanc3225]

@@Xylarxcode well, most folks also had no idea how powerful spell damage was vs int. They'd stack int and thus mana, but their spells would hit like marshmallows. Same thing with melee classes and attack power.

[@acez_8723]

@Michael Moretti 2 min CD on mana pots*

[@oskarbremer5406]

Druid in Vanilla? Lul

[@Corrupted]

The feral 25% mana reduction was actually good if you used a certain staff that actually gave you mana when switching stances, you would use mana pots and actually have sick dps as a feral because switching to cat gave you 100 energy. Actually a hard to play build in classic which is... rare

[@Larry_-_]

Found you

[@killbill515]

⁰⁰0⁰⁰⁰0⁰0000000000⁰000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000⁰⁰000

[@aFewBitsShort]

You could also shift-click the lightwell to "take all" charges.

[@Mir_Teiwaz]

OMG that's hilarious

[@Nahvrik]

LMAO

[@PlantTube.]

A meme from the start

[@bass-dc9175]

I actually liked lightwell. Because I played a warlock. Having the ability to gain mana for free is INSANE for us warlocks. Which is why you see Priests in naxx placing those lightwells into the caster group, even on fights where there is no group healing, like patchwork.

[@AnaseSkyrider]

I love how, to Warlocks, health IS mana, so any heal is mana at the cost of one GCD.

[@TheMarrethiel]

@@AnaseSkyrider Which is why I loved the WoW Warlock and the EQ Necromancer.

[@FlyingJustToFall]

guess what class has the talent... "Requires omen of clarity" LUL

[@ferikhoros8802]

*Hmmmmm how should i knoooow*

[@marcinduman2651]

Also has "Balance" in it's name and there's Moonglade in background xD

[@music79075]

@@marcinduman2651 warlocks?

[@Magepure6749]

​@@music79075 don't be silly everyone knows it's DKs

[@Zenneth23]

@@marcinduman2651 Balance eh? Must be Monks then LuL

[@Wildzide00]

Half of the shaman's enhancement talent tree feels like it was made for tanking.

[@Nikarus2370]

cause it was

[@arnoldegger8457]

windfury is better

[@briwill4817]

thats why the best ench shams in vanilla history all used 1h shield

[@filipefernandes8669]

I have a character on TBC "blizzlike" private server, and there is/was a shamman tank on the server, defense capped with high health (Around 15k I believe, on Heroic Dungeon, around 17k-18k in raids), and decent aggro. There wasn't any Mail gear designed for tanking in the game, but you could use PvP gear which gave resilence which also counted towards the defense cap, and get your tanking stats from rings, neck and trinket + you can also use leather tanking gear from druids. I did some heroics with him and was ok, he could solo tank any heroic pretty much, also once did a Black Temple run where he off-tanked, and I'm fairly certain he has tanked BT bosses and MH bosses, and could certainly tank at least Sunwell trashmobs, bosses I dunno about, perhaps but would be tricky, dunno if he has done it or not. So yeh was certainly possible to shamman tank back then, probably harder on Vanilla given the lack of resilence gear and less over all available items for this to be possible. But I can attest you that in TBC shamman tanking was certainly possible.

[@zain6008]

I feel like half of the talents of enh currently should be baseline.(in retail)

[@Thundaxx1]

Ahh the troll racial meme: I'M REGENERATING 5 HP/S AND THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!

[@brodelnaz]

That's a lot of hp over time.. it basically increases your total hp if u think about it

[@frozen_spider]

@@brodelnaz No it doesn't. The only time when your total HP matters is when you risk getting bursted and/or are close enough to death, and this talent doesn't help at all in situations like this.

[@johnsmoke1785]

HP & MP regen in classic wasn't described/shown in "per second", it was "per 5 seconds": called hp5 and mp5. And the troll regeneration was more likely to be 5 hp5 = 5hp per 5 seconds (unless geared for it with extra hp5 or Willpower which increased natural regeneration by a tiny not really noticeable margin). If you thought it was bad, now you know that it is even worse xD

[@LazyHomeSchoolDude]

IN MY OPINION: a somewhat strong racial for trying to save gold

[@BobbyKar666]

tbh if u are solo leveling as a warry, man.. these HP reg pots are nuts especially when u r a troll , because u have to spend less time with eating food and you can kill more mobs, more mobs = more xp/h, but yeah this is till level 20-30 and only if u r solo questing

[@Noobie2k7]

I love that ability Wayvern String.

[@kyoopihd]

xD

[@ujustgotpwnd3454]

Wavering String

[@Sladverr]

The way he mispronounces things so frequently is one of the reasons I refuse to subscribe. It's triggering to hear over and over.

[@jermafan111]

@@Sladverr for real kinda lazy for him not to notice

[@matsen1153]

@@Sladverr Maybe he's faking mispronunciations for comedy?

[@lucasmac15]

Divine strength wasn’t removed from the holy tree it was moved to the very first row wasn’t it?

[@Kittenjoust]

Yup.

[@CalamityVirus]

Correct, it was in the first row along with the int version, as early as 1.2

[@antico1986]

but didnt holy pally spellpower scale with strength ? and intellect was only for large mana pool, as it was easy to go oom without a shadow priest back then ?

[@Roamingeast]

@@antico1986 nah, holy pallies would stack mana +5 on all their gear and with divine inspiration basically could chain cast flash of light infinitely. used to piss my holy priest girl friend off when i main healed tanks and she was running on empty while i sat at 95% mana pool at fight long with higher effective healing.

[@zivkobabz]

Divine Strength actually gave higher block dmg amount it wasnt completely shit .. but it was kinda shit .. basicly last 2 talents divine strength and holy shock was for pvp as far as my memory goes i played paladin and warrior in vanilla :D

[@ear322]

Not as useless as the ones in the video, but mages' talent Improved Arcane Explosion used to lower the cast time of Arcane Explosion by up to 1.5 seconds, because before they changed it Arcane Explosion wasn't instant and had a 1.5 sec cast time. You had to spend these points to make it instant, but if u had Presence of Mind activated and accidentally cast Arcane Explosion, it would consume your Presence of Mind spell because the game still considered it as having a cast time.

[@batmedia1682]

Oh god STOP you're giving me fucking flashbacks lol

[@frostamatus]

I thought Presence of Mind was broken! I didn't know what was going on, it just kept disappearing on instant cast spells!

[@PaulaJBean]

@@batmedia1682 That is what WoW Classic is all about ;-)

[@Josh-ez3mb]

Lol what a memory

[@Odinfrost]

@@frostamatus Oh trust me, it was broken. Sometimes when you used a spell, it wasn't consumed so you could just keep insta-casting over and over and over. Really fun when specced into fire and you had unlimited (aside from mana limit) instant pyros.

[@Livingvapour]

With the "power shifting" meta for Cat druids using the wolf helm and fevor to get 80 energy every time they shift into cat form, the 30% mana reduction talent is AMAZING and a requirement.

[@_Leouch]

yes, I agree here.

[@Nerobyrne]

that's what I was thinking, wtf? Even without the helm, you often have to switch into caster form in order to heal yourself while soloing. Can't count the number of times I've died from being OOM as a feral druid, especially because for them, int is a dump stat until you get special druid gear.

[@_Leouch]

@@Nerobyrne you should know by now that people keep in mind ONLY META. they ignore fact that game is far bigger than meta. Every single talent here had its purpose.

[@Nerobyrne]

@@_Leouch but there are many different metas, depending on what you want to do. Not to mention farming was part of the raiding meta, since you needed mats for consumables.

[@Erenea5]

can't wait to macro !catform again for all the free energy :3

[@Livingvapour]

as for the blood craze ability and troll regen, blizzard nerfed spirit by 100-200% in beta. because warriors were spirit stacking and regenerating like 300 health per 5 seconds. warriors in prot for 31 talent had 40% passive health regen while in combat, plus 15% from blood craze and 10% from troll regen +10% buff to the regen itself from troll regen so you had 65% of your passive health regen while in combat. it was a good time.

[@Dura-1337]

Oh god. I just remembered how the "good" warrior tanks took this talent saying "extra heal is good". Yep. No joke here. They were serious.

[@maddyfromwas]

And it was a fine while leveling, people forget that talent trees werent only made for the endgame like they were from wrath and on :/

[@Dura-1337]

I was talking about maxlevel Warriors there.

[@lordundeadrat]

Bliz had this idea back in the day. Some of the Talents should suck hard so the players would have something to figure out themselves and gain a sense of accomplishment for making the better choice. But if you translate that to English it actually reads "Throw a bunch of beginners traps in there that solve problems that don't exist." To be perfectly fair. Some of the above mentioned talents had good intentions. They knew perfectly well that players weren't going to be able to swap specs often. They also knew healers were going to have a bitch time leveling. So give holy paladins a strength boost to help defend themselves. But they couldn't put it high in the tree. That would allow the other specs access to a damage buff they weren't balanced for (at the time anyway. So hide it at rank 25. Also, it can't be too good or holy paladins will be DPS that can heal themselves. What you end up with is a garbage talent that isn't even good at what it was meant to do. But the thought was there.

[@cattysplat]

The irony is this kind of class design would never work today. Only because the sourcing and sharing of information back then in the dark internet ages of 2005 made it so much harder until the big websites were established as a place to research and discuss the best ways to play. Noob traps were everywhere, and having the official wow forums as your only discussion place was ripe for disaster xD

[@organikness]

@@cattysplat - What are you on about? 6 months into Vanilla and there were a tonne of sites and youtube content, discussing, literally, everything

[@cattysplat]

@@organikness Discussions, yes. Actual correct information? Very hard to find, and there was certainly no data or analysis being collected and analysed. Alakazham was the first site giving WoW info and it was an Everquest website. We didn't even have Wiki's for games back then. From what I remember the most valuable, unbiased source of information was Thottbot comments sections for quests, which was still full of inaccuracies. Most guilds just copied what Elitist Jerk's forums members posted about class builds. KZbin only had guilds posting blurry raidboss takedowns with background music and jokey meme machinima. Most of the established discussion and information sources were not fully established until TBC.

[@markayzenshtadt7200]

aaaaaand then make millions of people struggle through it to no end.

[@spencerphilippinedream3706]

"data being analysed"? i agree @ organikness , wowwiki was created the day after WoW released. most people dont need anything more than "guidance" until they stop leveling and start obtaining gear. by the time people started obtaining gear, there were plenty of resources available. sure, maybe there wasnt any information on build specs right away but i would hardly consider them "beginner traps". This is an MMORPG afterall and if you cant find a little guidance in-game, then what level of "Hand Holding" do you want game developers to create? we can all read the abilities and they did exactly what they claimed. with all that said, i did run across a level 60 prot pally with cloth gear played by a 12 year old (pissing off everyone he grouped with). he made it to level 60 this way and he never tried to learn any better. there is no tutorial that explains why AC is important. was this a "beginner trap"? as i recall, if you moused over your stats, a tool-tip would tell you what that stat is used for.

[@Alexandros.Mograine]

reducing mana on shapeshift is actually good in vanilla, feral druids best rotation was constantly shapeshifting to get energy faster.

[@1XTubaraoX1]

finally some one said it

[@akhsdenlew1861]

It's really good, but it should've been 2nd -3rd row... not a final talent. Final talents are usually game changing... like "ultimates" or something. The later version of 30% in the 2nd row of restoration is more suitable for the talent, and even then Feral dps was still on the lower side of dps. I mean there's a reason why most of these talents were changed so swiftly...

[@Alexandros.Mograine]

@@akhsdenlew1861 actually with powershifting ferals can do quite decent dps. why does it matter what row it is when you will go deep feral anyways.

[@akhsdenlew1861]

@@Alexandros.Mograine powershifting is not enough to catch mage, lock, rogue, warrior dps... not by a long shot. u need tons of extra consumables and u will still be worse than them. Also, feral dps is a joke cus u have to farm gnome for that mace in order to TRY and be competitive. And ofc, most of the times u won't go deep feral...when i was playing feral i was NS, which is a lot better for pvp. And feral pvp is impossible without the 30% less shapeshift mana. For a druid, shapeshift is everything, so 30% is pretty essential that every druid wanna have.. so u can't have it as last talent. As i said, the last talent should be something OPish..not something essential to play ur class. Try to think of every last talent in the game and u will understand

[@Marunius]

@Brian Can you toss a link :D? Sounds cool!

[@0Midas0647]

I always feel that these odd sorts of talents were for pvp, especially world pvp. You didn't have the luxary of controlling the conditions of a fight, and players had no reason to attack tanks over dps/healers, so everyone had to be able to defend themselves.

[@bjornerlendur4606]

"Creates a Soulstone that is automatically used upon death, restoring its owner to life at 400% health and mana" yeah, 400% health and mana

[@marcusgaius]

Clearly taken from a private server. Still funny. :D

[@yfranse4881]

@@marcusgaius wut? How does it relate to pservers

[@Nerobyrne]

@@yfranse4881 they have some weird things on pservers sometimes. Especially because not nearly all of them are Blizzlike

[@dustingmorgan]

I think they mean base health/mana

[@adamgmitrzuk5336]

@@marcusgaius Tooltips are usually screwed up even on wowhead and other databases where this was probably from

[@cespie]

I love how you go over Blood Craze saying how it was useless for PvE, yet completely neglect to mention that it was a standard talent in just about any PvP build, because that shit made it possible to fight rogues, and helped against a lot of other melees too. Also, during leveling, you could totally abuse this talent by hitting the X key and sitting down, subjecting yourself to a crit. This would not only grant you a large portion of rage, it would also activate your enrage talent, and with Blood Craze being added on top of that, you'd sometimes out-regenerate the damage taken by the crit.

[@JohnDoe-bu3qp]

Plus that moment when a mage crit you with their staff lol, felt good

[@dpio4543]

Just saying, blood craze is a really good talent when you are leveling. You can force the mobs that you are fighting to crit you by sitting which activates enrage as well for a 25% damage buff, and blood craze 3% regen will usually offset the health loss from being crit.

[@notme2966]

guess I am 11 hours late

[@Mixwell1983]

Yah these sitting down tricks didnt work in vanilla and aren't going to work in classic... They will not proc.. Soo much private server misinformation.

[@Manaea1]

@@Mixwell1983 false, it did work in Vanilla.

[@ceomusic7]

Blood craze op pvp

[@johannesjohansson9808]

@@Manaea1 From patch 2.3: [Enrage]: This talent can now trigger while the Warrior is sitting. Guess it counts for blood craze aswell...

[@STRONGBAD300]

Blood Craze and Enrage was definetly used a lot by serious niche PVP warriors.

[@101spacecase]

Was great on a twink with life stealing crusader enchants.

[@AM-bo2ns]

Enrage was a pretty common part of any leveling build, since any melee attack against you auto-crits if you’re sitting down warrs would take both and spam /sit macros to gain their benefits lol

[@Gekk0e]

you could always use a /sit macro to force your opponent to crit allowing for the heal and enrage

[@lillelidl]

​@@Gekk0eActually Blizzard reported recently that that won't be the case, since its not how it worked back in the days, but only on private servers. "Being critically struck while using /sit to sit does not cause abilities like Enrage, Blood Craze, and Reckoning to activate". Appearently there were plenty of "misconceptions" like these in the bug report from the beta.

[@Gekk0e]

@@lillelidl that's sad to hear but neat to learn about, thank you kind sir

[@fork355]

The quality of the editing on these videos has gone up an incredible amount. I can tell that there is time and passion put into all the little aspects of this video, from the transitions to the moving effects on the pictures. Good job, man, it isn't going unnoticed!

[@cespie]

Also, Holy shock was used a lot in both TBC and WLK (despite you saying that it only gained ground in Cata). Again, in pvp, where having an instant cast heal on a paladin was very valuable, and being able to do assist damage as a healer was key to securing a kill.

[@nicholasokeefe3632]

No one ever gives OG Shockadin it's true value. 1/3rd Prot 2/3rd Holy, true support, mid damage, decent heals, very defensive

[@moosedog___6372]

Top 10 lore characters that are just random dungeon bosses

[@dragonblade8460]

This, or how they can just be quest mobs. I.E Dar'kahn Dra'Thir in ghostlands

[@moosedog___6372]

Edwin Byrd yeah and also the one from the troll starting Zone + loken

[@MrCoconutCurry1]

Most of these “out of place” talents you can see were to fill in the gaps of a specialisation as opposed to budding the strengths. Holy Pallys did to physical damage - when farming for mats and gold....

[@MTGHunter]

Lightwell is decent if you have a competent warlock that uses it. You put it up before the pull, reg to full mana, enjoy free healing.

[@i.fernandes]

Never thought of it that way but it's great! Life Tap + Lightwell, never go OOM and ramp up those numbers!

[@Regunes]

"Hunter vanilla had terrible melee damage" -*Proceed to get his face mauled by a 1K rapor strike* ... if you say so.

[@Froggeh92]

yea when a warrior charges you you Q up raptor strike and spam wingclip to get a root. not bad filler damage honestly.

[@brodelnaz]

Survival hunters did insane melee and trap damage and their dodge and parry was very high.

[@RanaRandom]

Been a Survival spec since day one (mid Lich King). Cataclysm ruined the spec entirely up until Warlords came. :| EDIT: also this, kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIK2Xmp3nLeShsk

[@LoFi3]

@@RanaRandom 26 mins of you standing there and clicking abilities on enemies that are already dead before your brain even processes anything is there, real nice

[@Mezer_PoE]

@@RanaRandom Don't post WoW videos if the cogs in your head need to grind for 5 minutes to figure out where your mount is let alone other enemies lol

[@alexanelon]

I had completely forgotten that I had to spend time to level up weapon skills.

[@nickokeefe4366]

That Fury Warrior talent, dont get me wrong its not a good talent, but, if you were a fully bis geared warrior you could legitimately tank as fury and exchange survivability for mass self healing.

[@Reidster27]

This needs to be upvoted and commented on. Extremely high end raid protection warriors spec more heavily into fury in order to either dual wield or use talents like this to increase their damage while increasing self-healing and survivability. It's pretty sick. Also. Hiru, if you're reading this, there's also the thing where if you sit or kneel, you get auto critted which allowed you to abuse the talent.

[@knusperkeks2748]

@@Reidster27 Extremely high end raid protection warriors are immune to critical strikes, rending blood craze worthless to them. It's a decent talent on a warrior with 6500 hp unbuffed like my old grand marshal, but you still mainly take it because the other choices are even less useful.

[@victorkruger80]

i find that talent n1 for levling, try it out its a big diffrence if you have it or not.

[@t3hpenguinofd00m4]

@@knusperkeks2748 These days the meta has shifted towards fury tanking so your raid can do the most dps, especially with world buffs and on horde due to lack of salvation.

[@BrankoPlays]

@@Reidster27 you wont be able to sit and get 100% crit in classic to abuse the talent like you can in private servers

[@inf.9792]

Balance druids used to regenerate mana with melee attacks while in moonkin form, depending on their melee damage, hence the damage boost talent. It was common for moonkin players (the few that existed) to equip weapons that gave extra attack power in forms -that is why their tooltip also included moonkin form, when OOM in order to melee and regain some mana.

[@faylure9985]

wasn't that moonkin introduced to replace wep dmg?.

[@szencziboldizsar6532]

holy shock ain't that bad (but still bad) because there is no resistance for holy damage

[@pupiktlusto7860]

Well yeah, but only as a finishing move, normally you'd rather get a seal, judge the enemy, or just hit it with your weapon and save the mana for a heal.

[@Nerz_]

Holyshock was also used during WOTLK to heal... And was in the basic heal rotation.

[@galadballcrusher8182]

@@pupiktlusto7860 Not only... dont forget though that in vanilla pala didnt have any targetable ranged skills except exorcism that only could damage undead and demons so basicaly had to learn pull by proximity mostly until reaching unghoro and getting link's diary quest and pick as reward the boomerang trinket, so holy shock wasnt as useless as it seems cause at least allowed the pala a good ranged pull

[@pupiktlusto7860]

@@galadballcrusher8182 You may be right, but pala is one of the classes that can sustain himself for so long that you don't mind pulling one or two more mobs. But it is a different story when you're facing elites or a rare.

[@ithiusdomino]

was going to say this too. it wasn't good, but the reason it was considered ok to the people that made it was because of the lack of resistances to holy.

[@cattysplat]

I levelled solo as a holy priest for my first time through Vanilla. So many of the attack spells on holy/disc priest were aggressively bad, weak and huge mana costs, you could tell blizz was terrified if a healer could deal even remotely any damage. You had to waste so many talents to make them even remotely useful and even then it was a waste. Had to drink after 1 single mob and if I pulled 2 I had to retreat or melee them down with self heals. Inner fire gave melee attack power (???) and holy fire had a 5 second cast time, smite didn't hit much more than a staff melee hit, with your shadow spells your best friend. Top it all off before lightwell was introduced in the pre TBC patch, we had Holy Nova as our 31 point talent, and it did NO healing, only aoe damage, for a big mana cost, was a complete joke. Vanilla is just full of redundant ideas that were half assed at the last minute and were never changed for most of the period until pre TBC patch, it's amazing we made the game work with such shonky class design.

[@cattysplat]

@Holden Mcgroine Yeah the GW1 monk class was great, had a whole spec based around preventing damage with protection spells, it actually worked so well unlike discipline spells for WoW priest at least until penance was added in Wrath.

[@robertfalk3767]

I remember "Wand Specialization" for priests being a talent. Kinda worked though, because mana regen at low levels didn't exist.

[@DontHateMeCausImSexy]

i remember priests melting face with that talent

[@Kodan882]

Wands are unironically good in Vanilla. At least at low levels. I played Classic briefly as a Priest. Only got to level 29 or so and my wand totally out damaged all my attack abilities.

[@Ryoushi_Akanagi]

It's actually the best talent for leveling.

[@langben7736]

About the loss of skill points for 2h axes and maces for shamans. That was changed in a patch during vanilla so that you actually would keep your skillpoints when talented out and back into the talent.

[@Brandon-tz2wh]

Throwing weapons are to kill mobs fleeing at 1% or to stop someone from capping a chest Or to pull

[@Sirolfusable]

Gotta love my favourite survival hunter skill, wavern string

[@BiggDoggJake]

Yes! Someone pointing that out is within 5 comments from the top!

[@0Fyrebrand0]

One of many classic talents in War of Worldcrank!

[@RavageJ]

He butchers pronounciations so often and so bad in his vids, i believe he has to be trolling.

[@harrygeorgeallen]

@@RavageJ I hope he is but I really doubt it, I think he is dyslexic but god at least get someone else to check your videos before you upload them

[@brodelnaz]

Wyvern is such a great talent in pvp, soloing and dungeons... u can cc a target with wyvern and ice trap

[@krowaswieta7944]

Spellstone was really op in pvp. You had 2 forms of getting out of cc that way. 30% mana reduction on shapeshifting was op for feral druid. During Vanilla as feral dpser to have decent dps you had to shape-shifting for additional energy (talent + wolf head). Divine str was still in holy tree till tbc (first talent in holt tree if im not mistaken) or even woltk.

[@ChatBot1337]

I always liked Improved Auto Attack, Improves auto attack damage by 15% unless target is hostile. It was in the fire tree for mages. 😆

[@yani9o]

So basicly just for duels and mobs with a yellow name? Did it count for wands too?

[@Jackaroo.]

Boomkins used to be called Oomkins. Also, for Enhancement Shaman, throw on a bunch of Intellect gear if you need to retrain your weapon skills. Intellect increases the rate at which you gain levels of weapon skill.

[@warhammernerd52Daxx-Lorenzo898]

0:40-0:45 *Fart sound* 3:49-3:53 *Fart sound* 6:00-6:18 6:46-6:54 7:20-7:27 9:27-9:43 10:25-10:31 11:34-12:00 15:21-15:35 15:39-15:52

[@placeholdername3206]

Your picks are kind of weird. For example Blood Craze, you always picked that as a PvP warrior. No matter if you were Arms or Fury. It was really good vs Rogues cause the hot would be up from the fight started, until it ended pretty much. It regenerates roughly 1% hp every 2 seconds, so if the fight lasts 20 seconds, thats 10% more damage the rogue needs to get through, which might as well be 10% increased health. Theres also the fact that you couldnt really anything better.

[@frankfowler3270]

yeah agreed. I had a ton of armor and remember having about 4300 hp and being crit by a rogue with an offhand dagger for 17 and being healed 129 over 6 secs. thats a pretty decent trade.

[@TheMarrethiel]

Also, if you are leveling alone, any heal is good for one of the poorer solo levelers.

[@zeratulrus142]

Divine strength wasn't removed from holy, it was moved to the first tier. In vanilla, that is. You say it as if it stayed as a 25-point talent till it was removed. Upd: almost every vanilla video you make has similar mistakes. Like dual-wielding shamans and warriors who can't dps. Also, why didn't you mention that the balance druid talent got changed to giving 10% melee damage in all forms, which became a must-have for feral? You even showed a talent tree with the talent being there.

[@en21b]

I didn't take it that way. I took it as "it was a holy talent until removed." As ret you always took this talent since it was high in the holy tree.

[@velybear]

lots of mistakes in these videos, plus he doesnt seem to understand how vanilla classes worked...if you're a holy paladin, it's not like you're ONLY healing 100% of the time. I used to level as holy because I liked not having pushback and most people tanked as holy because consecration...this guy needs more research

[@yodaonketamine5706]

Amazing quality on the video Hiru, Keep up the fantastic work !

[@DrunkTalk]

Omen of clarity was a dead give away 😂 Natural shapeshifter is also mandatory on the way to omen of clarity for feral leveling and dps specs to be used with wolfs head helm after level 40 for powershifting 👍

[@rodalorn]

Weapon balance was added to increase staff damage . When in moonkin form druids regain Mana for every weapon hit.

[@Unahim]

They removed weapon balance when they added moonkin form...

[@MooseCastle]

@@Unahim No they didn't, they just changed it to physical damage instead of weapon damage and moved it in the tree.

[@DwaneDibbley1]

Shapeshifting mana reduction was actually way to go if u wanted to raid as feral, as feral damage was all about utilizing Wolfshead helm. So reduced manacost of shapeshifting actually resulted in higher dps.

[@MrJengaa]

That WYVERN pronationtion hahaha, love you hiru

[@jermafan111]

“wayvern string”

[@jordanweir7187]

nice vid bro, although wat was weird was that at about 14:00 you had this spell tooltip glowing, and for a brief moment i was transported into the world of a child, gazing in innocent wonder at the comforting luminescence, temporarily locked in unblemished paradise :'- []

[@Tall_Order]

8:59 "They didn't completely remove melee talents from the survival tree until MoP" When they completely gutted the entire Talent System altogether. lol

[@RageShroud]

Blood Craze was a great talent for tanks, you forget you can force a crit on your self in vanilla. So in raids while on a boss fight you could create "blood shield" and the heals were much higher since you had buffs and potions.

[@Koroar]

Shamans had to spec into parry until the end of WotLK.

[@Taurineg]

The warlock slow curse was used to fear mobs around without having to worry that they might pull more mobs, there’s also a separate curse that makes mobs immune to fear so we’d fear mobs then put on the fear-immune-curse so they keep going back and fourth while our other dots do damages.

[@charlesprichard5235]

God I miss two-handing as shammy Also I still have a greater spellstone on my lock lol

[@blech71]

The Preach skit about Lightwell was pretty hilarious. Ghosty nailed it!

[@aussj4link]

I used to use Seal of Wisdom with my Holy pally. And what I would do is time my auto attacks with my heals because the mana gain was really good as long as I was hitting something, allowing me to avoid going oom for way longer. I was thinking, maybe that's the reason for that strength talent?

[@ventu7907]

aussj4link no. Hpal were the most efficient healers in vanilla and you didn’t really need to dps with wisdom and the damage was too low anyway, that talent was just bad design

[@treeaboo]

@@ventu7907 3 years late but that's not quite true, Resto Druid was the most mana efficient healer thanks to Healing Touch Rank 4 being the most efficient heal in Vanilla, as well as them having Innervate. Holy Paladin overtakes them only once they gain enough Spell Crit, which is in Naxx.

[@rithyheng3556]

For Holy Paly's Holy Shock, it was designed as additional damage skill for Holy Paly since Holy Paly can survive very long but lack damage output. Holy Shock seems to deal low damage in the description, but the fact it deals average damage because it benefits from Spell Power and Holy Paly back then use "melee damage + DoT + self-healing" to destroy their enemies slowly, especially fighting against classes with bad healing abilities.

[@crunchycheese]

How you missed improved distract is beyond me

[@adalwolf12]

Blood Craze and Second Wind really made my life bearable when leveling my dwarf warrior back in the day. Fighting mobs that threw nets for free healing was great.

[@faylure9985]

Yeah some ppl don't get some talents/spells where designed with leveling in mind.

[@michaelkennielsen1422]

Yo uaare dead wrong about Blood Craze. First off its designed as a leveliong talent for fury. I've been leveling as fury/prot on classic (currently lvl 50) and dual wield tanking all the dungeons so far. Blood craze is fantastic to help your downtime between mobs. I'd say it gives me around 6-9% of my health back on each melee mob that i fight. Its saved me a lot in food costs.

[@jaredleverette]

Oh definitely! At level 40 I get crit for about 60 damage by any given mob and regenerate for 80. It makes getting crit go from taking double damage to taking negative damage. Considering another talent gives you 30% increased damage done when you get crit, you’re begging things to crit you! I pretty much almost never have to eat with this talent and can keep fighting enemy after enemy after enemy, with a little first aid every blue moon being plenty to keep me going.

[@bradm268]

This was definitely just a leveling talent, you never took it after you maxed out

[@michaelkennielsen1422]

@@bradm268 Yeah thats exactly my point :)

[@ggEmolicious]

Really bad you say? *waits for lightwell*

[@ArcaneEther]

I specced 3/3 into "Improved Blizzard", but the company still sucks.

[@Makrateli]

I believe they've made a rather powerful "blizzard" spell in hearthstone as a direct response to this joke.

[@nippon19]

lmao :D

[@DrewOn22FPS]

L OH L

[@DeanWhipper]

Always loved Lightwell, yeah players have to click it, but if you cast it before the boss, it's free healing. It's the kind of skill that is great at the start of an expansion when you're pushing dungeons when you haven't really got the gear for yet and you need every bit of help you can get.

[@thomasflores7817]

“You’d have to level your weapon skill up from 0” 0-300 wouldn’t take that long. If you went a 30 or 40 zone, and just auto attack mobs, it’d take 20 minutes at the most. Depending on how many swings you take at each mob. You’ll get a skill point per swing for like the first 200 swings.

[@BTheMg]

3:50 I like how the throwing knife is so bad that the troll is holding it from the blade without injuring his hand

[@jari2018]

it actually could be thrown 2-3 times before the mob hit you so it wasnt that useless as he says

[@ZanathKariashi]

a lot of throwing knives are held by that the blade for proper throwing technique. Since Throwing knives don't really cut, they pierce. they're basically large War-Darts, albeit ones with a little bit more versatility as even a somewhat dull blade can be used to perform tasks.

[@HueJacobs]

The Shockadin - a holy pvp build was incredibly popular back then. I played one and Divine Strength was definitely a great talent for that build.

[@finnishfatman]

Some even used six-demon-bag (if it was called that... forgot it now :D) to get that slight extra dmg... fun times, when you could experiment with all kinds of crazy talentbuilds to find which was, at the given time, most fun for you :P

[@FailsafeZero]

Can't believe Wand Specialization didn't make the list

[@treeaboo]

Wand Spec was genuinely good, it was designed as a lvling talent and that's what it's used for. Honestly a lot of the info in this video is incorrect. Balance's 10% dmg with Melee Weapons was actually good at the time as they could get mana back by doing so (and it was tied to Omen of Clarity so could give Clearcasting Procs, they're called Oomkins for a reason) and it later got reworked to be good for Feral. Feral requires the mana cost reduction on Shapeshifting as its what allows them to powershift 25/30% more (depending on the version of the talent) and is a core talent from Classic through to WoTLK. Blood Craze was good for lvling. Divine Strength wasn't removed in Vanilla it was moved down to the first row and is required for Ret and Prot, etc.

[@dylanruby6687]

Primal instinct was useful for powershifting with that lv 40 helm that gave energy when you shifted into cat form

[@CaptainSweatpants90]

One thing to mention about Blood Craze (9:05 - 11:30) is that the current meta on Classic private servers heavily features the so-called "Fury Prot Tank", which is basically a fury warrior with a couple of points in the Protection tree as a main tank. That is actually something that works on most bosses in Naxxramas, it completely shifts your strategy to where most healers have to spam big heals on you, but the added threat you regenerate allows damage dealers to really give it their all without pulling threat from the tank, which results in the bosses dying much faster. Now granted, even for that build, Blood Craze isn't all THAT impressive as a heal, but it is occasionally picked there.

[@marvink786]

Amazing editing, as always

[@TheNardDog1996]

The idea for these extra melee dmg on caster like the balance druid one and the holy paladin one, are I think mostly meant for leveling since as holy paladin/balance druid you are not constantly casting spells like in retail because then you need to drink after every mob. It's more meant for lvling and giving them some help on that front. Not saying the talents are good and should be picked, but I think that was the philosophy behind it.

[@Helikaeon]

Actually Blood Craze became pretty strong in Wrath, coupled with second wind as well, with full PvP gear you became almost unkillable. EDIT: It got better when paired with this during LK I might add, but MoP was when it truly began to shine. Betcha didn't know that :P

[@PlantTube.]

yeah it went from 3% over 6 sec to 6% over 6 sec

[@Helikaeon]

@@PlantTube. doesn't sound a lot, but when it's repeatedly proccing and you're getting rooted all the time so second wind is always up, Def stance, resilience at high levels, and hell pop a shield wall for good measure you could easily tank 2-3 people at once for a little while haha

[@TheAckeePlant]

You should do a top 10 possibly unsolved wow mysteries. Certain NPCs react to certain things that may lead to something that we haven’t discovered yet.

[@StekkexD]

I would argue that the warrior talent Blood Craze is really good for warrior leveling in vanilla as it synergise well with the Enrage talent and the /sit macro most warriors use.

[@zeratulrus142]

Shouldn't work on official classic. /sit, that is.

[@strajee]

@@zeratulrus142 Why not? Sitting to regen quicker is literally a game mechanic

[@krakvakuk2635]

Getting crit while sitting was an official mechanic

[@yani9o]

@@strajee on private servers the crits you recieve when sitting down (/sit put in a macro) trigger talents like this, but on blizzards classic those talents won't get triggered (it's still a guaranteed crit tho). That makes some leveling strategies unusable (like priests forced pushback immunity, additional to the HoT-talent from holy tree after recieving a crit, or fury warriors with the talent shown in the video)

[@joaogalvao4071]

#sit

[@lucianosimmons3003]

Knew throwing weapons would make it from rogue tree. Another perfectly executed entertaining video. Really appreciate your time and energy sir. Ty

[@Shikaschima]

Fury Warriors in Raid's shouldn't be hit. Me: Fury Tanking is a thing.

[@spanlocket6107]

No. Just... no.

[@johannesdatblue4164]

@@spanlocket6107 i remember back in the days (blizz was in cata mype on the way to mop) and i played wotlk on a pserver. Fury warri tanked ss hc with icc gear xD that was nice and he still did much more dmg xD

[@johnplath1072]

Classic Fury Prot is a thing, but no blood craze isn't. WotLK pre dual spec I would regularly tank Hcs for dailies as DPS Fury warrior, but that was simply through over gearing, and blood craze was not a thing. Titans Grip 2H, with Shield and ArP trinkets though....drool

[@MrTw2009]

I actually did cast "create healthstone" in combat. I remember being the bomb during the Geddon fight twice in a row. The thing is, warlocks don't really care about mana, you just life tap.

[@uproar8745]

1 talent to get 25% decrease to shapeshifting or 3 to get 30% it's not that bad really

[@krodmandoon3479]

Ah yes, Waveren String, my favorite talent.

[@thebearisradd]

@himuraredx Would love to see a video similar to this talking about the glyphs that were in World of Warcraft. I, personally, loved the Glyph of Demon Hunting for Demonology Warlocks in Mist of Pandaria. Gave you Dark Apotheosis that essentially turned you into a Tank Spec. Loved running LFR raids and taking over tanking.

[@blodstainer]

Correction: Divine Strength wasn't removed, it was moved to be the first talent in the Holy tree and stayed there all the way into WoTLK

[@Obiika]

Weapon balance wasn't that "randomly out of place", the balance tree had a bunch of talents profitable to feral, and an another bunch of talents profitable to healers, and it wasn't rare for druids to go half balance + half other when picking talents. I think Blizzard really tried to make druid this extremely versatile class that would've changed gameplay depending on the situation, and for the most part it kinda worked, but it just wasn't balanced (no pun intented) well.

[@Obiika]

Man actually your video has a lot of other mistakes... Almost one on two talent you showcase is treated wrong

[@acez_8723]

yes but as feral you dont do damage with your weapon but with your claws

[@Obiika]

@@acez_8723 ... Your feral damage is based on your weapon damage. This talent was a must pick for ferals.

[@acez_8723]

@@Obiika nope your feral damage is a flat number it is effected by stats on the weapon but not the weapon damage itself hence the best weapon being the manual crowd pummeler from gnomer.

[@Cameroo]

I do think a lot of the fondness for Vanilla is viewed through rose tinted glasses. But still, seeing some of the WoW classic early access stuff recently has made me realize there was a certain magic to the way they originally approached the game. I do think there was a lot of terribly bad ideas in it though and it was really rough around the edges. Some specs are going to be impossible to enjoy in it I think. But time will tell. :) Thanks for the great video!

[@shikalakabum]

actually shapeshifting manacost decreasing talent is essential for feral in vanilla since it's all about gaining insta 60 energy with a talent and lw crafted helm

[@Ithrial420]

The Wolfshead Helm

[@stanny18]

exactly power shifting spec is op af, it pushes good feral druids to top tier dps rank, but as i remember back in 2004 nobody used power shifting and ppl discovered it so much later in tbc. But stil i would not mention an essential talent as natural shapeshifter on this list, the uploader needs more research before posting silly stuff :)

[@yani9o]

@@stanny18 not that good in classic, according to parses of northdale, elysium, nost, etc. At least not compared to other dps

[@treeaboo]

@@yani9o Now that Classic Vanilla is over, it turns out it was actually very solid if played properly, it was the 3rd Highest DPS in BWL (after Warrior and Rogue), higher than all the casters. It sat at 5th in Naxx, just below Warlock but a big chunk above Frost Mages, Hunters, Ele/Enh Shamans, and leagues ahead of Boomie, Ret, and SPriest. Of course, it was also by far the hardest spec to play in Classic/Vanilla and if you don't play it optimally your damage seriously suffers, so the effort to reward doesn't quite match up unless you enjoy the difficulty. As such we didn't see many of them in Classic despite their power.

[@st4rboyjr]

These are so damn cozy thank you

[@beaverman3001]

Shockadin for pvp was a very popular build.

[@BattousaiHBr]

for vanilla? with a 30 sec cd?

[@beaverman3001]

@@BattousaiHBr Yup, it with ZG or ToEP and divine favor was really powerful. You'd be surprised at the burst you'd get.

[@aFewBitsShort]

Pallys lacked burst damage so shocks were a welcome addition to the rotation

[@MegaChickenfish]

Your animations for this are spectacular.

[@MT-so2mk]

How is natural shapeshifter a "meh" talent when it's impossible to play feral without it?

[@randallniblett2531]

Yeh he has no idea how to play feral cat in classic.

[@shamlotbestrhapsever7437]

Production value is getting really good!

[@pupiktlusto7860]

I suppose you could say that most of these were the really early vanilla talents, not 1.12 ones that you'll see in Classic or you already see in private servers?

[@MooseCastle]

Blood craze is good for leveling. The best leveling is 2 handed fury, sitting to get crit on purpose in order to activate enrage. BC gives you a little more sustain which is welcome.

[@Sakkehattu]

Hate to break it to you, but sitcrits don't (and should not) proc enrage/BC/reckoning. That didn't become a thing until TBC.

[@MooseCastle]

@@Sakkehattu It worked in original vanilla, it just didn't make it to classic for some reason. There are plenty of videos showing it working from 2004-2007.

[@negrebnegreb9721]

Spellstone is useless ok ;DD Pvp against an caster as a warlock and we talk again about spellstones...

[@mangaranwow2543]

As you stated Spellstones were actually good in classic, but it toke me some time to realize that.

[@BattousaiHBr]

i pvped a lot in TBC and they were nearly useless, only found use for them a few times in duels and even then i still questioned if it was actually worth losing the wand. it was only particularly good against shadowpriests.

[@negrebnegreb9721]

@@BattousaiHBr ok first the spellstone if for your off hand not your want... it absorbs 900 spell dmg you can swap it in combat so you loose nothing. And if you don´t swap your trinkets and your off hand (even as a fing meele in some cases) you are just bad in pvp. it sucks that ppl commend about stuff they don´t know never used but think they can imagen how good or bad it will be.

[@BattousaiHBr]

@@negrebnegreb9721 i guess they changed it since from what i remember the only thing it did was remove all your magic debuffs. and using your offhand slot is even worse than the wand lol.

[@joeltarnabene5026]

@@BattousaiHBr Are you crazy? Being an offhand makes it much better since you can swap it in combat. Just swap to it - use the effect and swap back.

[@kulrigalestout]

Those melee talents in the Survival tree are probably the greatest contributors to the class earning its nickname.

[@HamsterWheelGaming]

Really well made and nicely edited video Hiru, keep em coming!

[@jimboa20]

The rogue talent "Improved Distract" I think deserves the number one spot because it actually made distract worse, as in less useful. It increased the radius of distract, which made it more difficult to use tactically, especially in tight spaces.

[@nightcross1030]

Was very surprised to not see that on the list. The subtlety tree was a complete mess for nearly all of vanilla!

[@robertlupa8273]

Task failed successfully

[@cormacbevins9679]

A list of bizarre talent set ups. I remember on wrath having a pally healer that had near infinite mana thanks to mixing ret with holy.

[@GustavoRodriguez-me7gl]

I remember using that build in Wotlk, it was known as schockadin, it consited on spec talents in holy until Holy shock and then on ret until Judgements of the wise, that made the paladin instantly restore a percentage of base mana and then gain replenishment buff for restoring more mana per second, also it gave the paladin Repentance for more cc and more solid dps for helping in arenas to kill as a healer.But that was only useful in low gear.

[@ch33seweasel42]

I can't lie; Half the reason I'm rolling a priest is so I can troll my friends and tell them if they would have just clicked my lightwell they would have been fine.

[@rithyheng3556]

I still remember there were raid bosses we need to use priest's light well back then. It was useful, not as bad as what you mentioned in the video. Light Well was given to the group or raid after a BIG AoE damage from the boss. It gives the priest more time to focus on the tanks instead of raid/group members. Some raid bosses, the AoE damage is a must, but only work once in certain period of time. That's where Light Well was there for the team. In some fights, it was placed in the range between melee and range, so people can move to click then move back to their position. Light Well required more mana than regular healing spells but if the injury members take the heals from it, it helped the priest save more mana in a long fight. The people who said Light Well was useless, it's because they didn't get use to it. Because they couldn't control their team members to click it. The team must know what it is and how the spell works to gain HP recovery properly.

[@youngkingdom8131]

It seems like all KZbin content creators are completely bankrupt of creative video ideas at this point. But you never let us down!

[@ericblack2252]

Lol yes

[@TheSLX]

I actually took the weapon balance talent back in the days thinking it worked in cat and increased my damage 😂 Great video as always!

[@ericblack2252]

I was under the impression it actually did do dmg as that was physical damage. Any sources in this or did you test it in classic yourself?

[@TheSLX]

Eric Black I didn't test no, I just assumed this video is correct, I never noticed the tooltip mentioned weapons until now.

[@ericblack2252]

SLX it doesn’t lol, it says “all forms” currently. It might of said wep in one patch but since tbc it’s been all forms.

[@TheSLX]

Eric Black ah so they did change it. this game is so confusing with all of the changes that passed by. I mained a feral in TBC as well, maybe I used it then. I do remember omen of clarity was also added in the vanilla druid patch

[@ericblack2252]

SLX well on all the 1.12.1 talent calculators I’ve seen, it’s always “all forms”. It’s almost a mandatory for feral as it’s almost as good as the 15% additional threat in bear. I also ran with the idea of a boomkin Druid with a fast atk weapon and cast starfall (big dmg one I think) when omen procs (max rank) and try to weave in lower rank ones between Melee hits like a hunter does auto shot / aimed shot. If you could get into a WF group, it might be something. I thought overall it’s how the class ought to play. They have the armor to be upclose and with a BR and innervate; maybe enough dmg to make up for everything.

[@sarphog]

You're wrong on some of these. Did you know that forcing crits on yourself icreases dps as a fury warrior, and that it's an amazing tactic for leveling?

[@Mixwell1983]

These sit crit procs on private servers werent a thing in vanilla and won't be in classic. They will not work like they do on private servers.....

[@faylure9985]

@@Mixwell1983 Rofl this did't age well.

[@Mir_Teiwaz]

I could see an argument for having the cheaper healthstones in a raid setting where you're basically the cookie vendor. Less time you have to spend drinking, less time everyone has to wait for a cookie. Although I doubt it made enough of a difference unless you only had like 1-2 warlocks in your raid...which seems unlikely in vanilla.

[@simongrimaux7700]

In a raid setting where you're the cookie vendor, wouldn't you simply use Lifetap and healers would get you back up to full health for little mana?

[@nightquest52]

"Natural shapeshifter is meh talent" - He sure is not talking about vanilla.