Top 3 Pedalboard Mistakes

Episode 5: Top 3 Pedalboard Mistakes
Welcome to the Chairmen of the Boards Podcast! The ultimate pedalboard podcast with the foremost rig builders in the world: Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio), Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio), and Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects/The Rig Doctor). We've teamed up to democratize great tone and provide you with our best tricks, tips, resources and hacks so you can build the pedalboard of your dreams!
//HOSTS//
Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio)
YT - @Goodwood Audio
IG - / goodwoodaudio
Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio)
YT - @Omilion Audio
IG - / omilionaudio
Mason "The Rig Doctor" Marangella (Vertex Effects)
YT - @Vertex Effects
IG - / vertexeffects
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#pedalboards #diypedalboards #guitarpedals

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Episode 5: Top 3 Pedalboard Mistakes Welcome to the Chairmen of the Boards Podcast! The ultimate pedalboard podcast with the foremost rig builders in the world: Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio), Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio), and Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects/The Rig Doctor). We've teamed up to democratize great tone and provide you with our best tricks, tips, resources and hacks so you can build the pedalboard of your dreams! //HOSTS// Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio) YT - @Goodwood Audio IG - instagram.com/goodwoodaudio Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio) YT - @Omilion Audio IG - instagram.com/omilionaudio Mason "The Rig Doctor" Marangella (Vertex Effects) YT - @Vertex Effects IG - instagram.com/vertexeffects //WATCH// Watch all "Chairmen of the Boards" episodes: KZbin: bit.ly/3rBohAd //LISTEN// Listen to all "Chairmen of the Boards" episodes on your favorite Podcast App: APPLE: apple.co/3En6baj SPOTIFY: spoti.fi/3jS1kEB

[@kodykindhart5644]

Thx mason You’ve really upped my pedal build game

[@Zwepol]

At the ripe age of 60 I am in the process of putting together my first very basic 4-piece pedalboard for bedside use when practicing. Now when I at last is about to have the time to spare to fullfill my teenage dream and learn how to play the Guitar. After listening to this however I can imagen how Orwille Wright would feel studying the blueprints of the spaceship USS Enterprise. And I enjoyed every moment of it. 🤟😎🎸

[@nathanpatrickturner8720]

Question for you guys: I love my board. It’s medium sized. I like everything on it. I don’t use my fuzz a lot. Should I pull it off?

[@treabailey]

Got my board set up by Grant and Goodwood back in 2014, and though I've torn it apart and redone it myself a few times, I've never had a cable go bad, and the only issue I had he took care of right away... 8 years later! Can't speak highly enough of Goodwood!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

That's great news!!!

[@jayyoungmusic919]

something I always recommend when you bring your pedalboard with you when you're auditioning new pedals, amps, guitars to buy.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yes!

[@scooter5005]

Fun, informative show! My hard knock lessons are the jacks of patch cables & pedals eventually oxidize, so need to be cleaned. Also, patch cables do wear out if angles between pedals are severe/changed often, so test them when changing up the board

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for listening!

[@lofijunky]

i love these podcasts. they’ve been very insightful so far

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad you dig them! Please be sure to write us a review on iTunes if possible!

[@joehart7573]

Great info! I made my board stereo, only for at home use. Live I play mono, so now I'm wondering if I should just go back to mono. I've listenned to a lot of what Mason has posted over the past year as I've been slowly building my board. Cables etc, the conductive shield, I had no idea so I'm glad I saw that before wiring eveything up. I built my own board, a tad heavy, so I've been able to modify the interface as needed but smaller would perhaps be the goal of my next build. Thanks guys!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for listening!

[@BRAG450]

After troubleshooting crap trying to learn all this I think the biggest improvement for me was having a decent power supply. I made the mistake of buying the hyped up expensive pedals first and then neglecting the power supply since when your starting out you hear a lot about cool pedals but less about the power supplies and the other stuff that makes the board sound and work correctly. I had all these fancy pedals and was running a donner dp1 power supply off Amazon that I bought for 50$ or something. After upgrading to a good power supply I was amazed how my pedals sounded totally different and how I didn’t hear any weird noises. I used to hear phantom pedals sounds when they were off but I could still hear them faintly.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Switch mode is key and getting one designed for audio, also key. Good power supplies are worth their weight in gold!

[@standodge5536]

I'm using only the basics in my board build. Something you could probably just get off your amp. I did add in a MXR Poly Blue Octave for experiments. I like what Mason brought up about building then finding out sounds and tone after and subsequently being unhappy with the performance after the fact.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!

[@lw192]

Fellow Canadian here, and OCD tone chaser. Been building my own boards for 30+ years, it never ends. I bought a 100' roll of microphone cable way back and dedicated a weekend to soldering cables, I still have the same cable's! I use both conductors and only ground one end of the braid, and mark the cable with colored heat shrink for added strength. I only use Neutrik connectors and never had issues with ground loops. I have one main board with approximately 10 pedals with another satellite board for tuner and pedals to trim the input before the chain. All my dirt is on the front end, stereo amplifier is mostly clean. Time based stuff is in the stereo loop, works well. The journey never ends!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

The directional thing won't matter for this, you might as well connect the ground on both sides as a guitar system is not balanced. No single ended system will benefit from this.

[@lw192]

Been thinking about your reply, not that I am a tech such as yourself. Can you expand on why then long chains have ground loop issues with conventional cables pls? All I have to offer is before I did this I did have issues, no issues since and I would think even in mono, using both conductors and not using the shield would help with and noise? Also, is there not potential capacitance issues, I have even noticed a change in tone when I use a different length primary cable?

[@heathband]

great as usual. these are so helpful.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad you like them!

[@terryeaster1]

11:44 that is a freaking GREAT idea!!!

[@ryanchristy322]

Mistake….. wiring cables and forgetting to put the heat shrink tubing on first!

[@WarrenPostma]

ouch me also.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Most cables on the pedalboard likely don't need this, but yea..or the housing is another thing ;)

[@omilionaudio]

Did this multiple times

[@Fleaafc1]

I’d like to know more about what you said regarding the conductive plastic core and it’s effects on the rigs. Do you have a video dedicated to this matter? I didn’t realise that it could be conductive and darken the tone. I’m also a little confused about how to strip this back. Surely a fraction of an inch of insulation can’t have that much effect, or am I mis-understanding what you are saying. Great podcast by the way, really enjoying it’s informative topics, keep up the good work.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Check out our Mogami cable assembly videos.

[@JJDon5150]

Saw your past video on switchers and now I'm thinking of getting one so I don't have to tap dance around all my pedals. Only problem is, I'm having trouble finding one that is compact enough to fit on my pedalboard, but has at least 5 switches, can accomdoate most of my pedals, can switch the clean/dirty channel on my Mesa Boogie Mark V, and can work with the "4 cable method" of FX In/Out of my amp for my effects and noise gate. My current setup looks like Tuner>Noise Gate>Synth>Digitech>Volume>Wah>Compressor>Big Muff>Phaser>OD>Front of Amp and then Effects Send>Tri-Chorus>Delay>Reverb 1>Reverb 2>Loop Station>Effects Return. Any suggestions?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Well...you tuner doesn't need to be in the loop. Nor does the Volume and wah. Those can be before. If any of your pedals have MIDI like the Chorus, Delay, or Reverb, they can live out of the looper as well and be controlled via MIDI. RJM is my favorite.

[@daviddunkin7454]

Morning Mason, I highly respect your work and have learned quite a bit from you already; I am also a resent subscriber. I was wondering about your thoughts on wireless lithium battery power supplies? I know eventually they will run out of use, but I have been using a Warwick power LT XL for almost a year now and have had zero problems with it.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I'd stick with a normal supply where possible if you want the best performance across a wide range of pedals.

[@daviddunkin7454]

@@VertexEffectsInc thx very much for your thoughts, I know your a busy man, much appreciated 🙏

[@iLightSoundGeometry]

this is why i only a few style of pedals, and mostly tried and true clones with a few proprietary builds here and there. i try and think of everything .. for example I like side mounted jacks as they seem to work better putting a board together for me.. i hate top mounted jacks .. i know its not a tone issue

[@rokku87]

15:20 I advise not run in stereo pretty much ever. Dealing with front of house techs, phasing issues etc etc. Its just more of a headache than its worth long term. Sometimes if a single reverb or delay pedal runs stereo it could work if you're directly in to the PA. Or if you're a bedroom guitar player / home recording artist then you're fine. But if you're a pro musician performing? Running in stereo is a much bigger pain than its worth.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for listening!

[@jacobalvarez7515]

This is so good. Bravo

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!

[@thatoneguitarnoob6216]

Thanks for all the info man

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You bet

[@brianmueller5483]

#tonetown 🤓🤠🤣 Awesome video guys! I tried the solderless cables a while back and it was such a mistake. Friends never let friends use solderless cables 😎

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Keep the road to Town Town paved with solder!

[@iNDERUdmg]

I'm mostly a bedroom player, and have been in cover bands recently (and might be again). I have a job that isn't related to music, and I'm married with kids. When I finally get to play guitar - I'm not going to be setting up additional pedals, I just want to turn on the pedalboard and start playing. So yeah, I know my pedalboard is probably too big and with too many things on it - but if I take them off that "occasional use" will drop to zero... Then again - I am happy with all the sounds I can get from it, and I haven't made any changes for over a year, and a fully loaded Pedaltrain Novo 24 isn't THAT huge... But I am stopping myself from getting a switcher and upgrading to a Schmidt Array - I don't need them, as much as I want them.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Maybe check out our Vertex Boards, they're about 5x less weight than a Schmidt and have all the riser features.

[@jacobpittman1996]

Andy Timmons is wonderful!! Bringer of McKinney, Tx, Lonestar triple-rectified Tone Water!!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Cameo!

[@jbert7289]

I eventually want to get soldered cables. But for now I’m using creations solderless cables. They’ve been on my board for a while with no issues. But one day I will do the soldered cables.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You're on borrowed time, be sure to do the sign of the cross before you fire that baby up on each gig ;)

[@jbert7289]

@@VertexEffectsInc:!haha…I live at the foot of the cross.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@jbert7289 hahahaha

[@erpringle]

@@VertexEffectsInc This is exactly what I say about you spewing off about solderless cables. This just tells me exactly what a sexual intellectual you are and just in case you don't know what that means, a sexual intellectual is a f**king know it all but of course you already knew that didn't you. Gimme a break dude. Evidently you just don't know how to build a solderless cable and that is sad. Just when I start giving you the benefit of the doubt you prove once again what a mr. dumas You are . You should change your title to the rig Dumas.

[@WarrenPostma]

Mine: 1. messy and disorganized. 2. put analog vintage fuzz circuits somewhere other than where it has to be, most of my fuzzes are trash anywhere but right next to the guitar. 3. didn't think about gain structure, and signal levels (too low? too high? just right!). Secret: measure them.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Cool! Thanks for watching!

[@tdhayes1]

How do YOU measure signal levels? What guidelines are helpful?

[@97guitarzan]

Great info.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!

[@danriley903]

you get what you pay for. that's usually the case. people often want a ferrari on a vw budget. the most important pedal on my board is the bypass switch (( apx. 2" square) that goes straight to the amp! LOL!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

True!

[@gunsandguitars6678]

There's no shortage of opinions? this was an excellent video ☆☆☆. an all you Young Musicians out there practice practice practice it matters !

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for watching!

[@alexpinkleton1095]

What would you recommend if I wanted to build a pedalboard similar to how you guys do it but want some of the pedals to be modular so I can try new stuff.

[@sparkyguitar0058]

I did this on my board. I used a 3 out daisy on each end and only use 2 for pedals on board. And when not in use got those little covers on the unused out. This way I can test new pedals or add certain pedals like on the end I occasionally use a Boss RC-1 looper at home. Just make sure whatever pedals are on the daisy that you check the mV's so you don't add noise or problems.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Make the cables a bit longer so you can have different jack arrangements on the pedals for power and audio.

[@tannerbott2168]

This might be a dumb question, but how do I know if the patch cables you buy are soldered or solderless?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Typically if you're buying pre-made patch cables, they're soldered or molded but soldered inside. Most of the solderless stuff is a DIY thing.

[@tannerbott2168]

@@VertexEffectsInc Thank you, that’s good to know!

[@jacobpittman1996]

Nobody wants to hear me play guitar badly enough for ME to spend $2,300 on pedalboard labor 😂. Still, I hear what you guys are saying. Good experience; good advice; Good…. Wood. Thanks for moderating, Grant.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for listening!

[@willster7272]

Once you guys started talking about stereo and “summing” ( I don’t even know what that is) you completely lost me now I’m wondering if I should even bother building my 1st peddle board.. 😢

[@Pokey7317]

I think the journey in the FUN PART of building your own pedalboard. AND EVERYONE SHOULD EXPERIENCE IT. EVERYONE has to build a pedalboard with 15 pedals and 3 expression pedals and 2 wahs 3 fuzz boxes etc and the rest of the ridiculous pedal out there. Then lift it back and forth to 20 band practicies to then carry it to a gig and argues with the soundman about noisy pedals, bad cables, not hearing guitar in mix then finish the gig and get stiffed by the promoter because only 10 people showed up including your girlfriend and her BFF AND THEN REALIZE "OK Maybe there is a more efficient way of doing this." when you develop a back problem." BEEN THERE DONE THAT. IT WAS AWESOME. My Rig is a BASIC yet powerful rig that can do A LOTTA TUENS. Its a 18"X12.3" Mono board (hoping to get one of the tavel VE boards) with a WAH>Peterson Tuner>Tumnus>Input of MS3. Loop 1 Timmy, Loop 2 Crayon, Loop 3 EFZ Loop to Mesaboogie JP2C OR a Fender 68' reissue (depends on what the gig needs). Les Paul and Telecaster. Drink holder for my Rum cocktail, and a microphone stand... Pedalboard weighs in at 20lbs - ish. Thats my journey more or less but above all.... I HAD FUN... I wanted to be efficient and so i kicked my ego out of the door and my back has reaped the benefits... LOL Great show GRET Topic as usual. nice session lads.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for listening!

[@ShawnCothran]

Say I have multiple pedals on my board, and pedal #1 has a 100 Ω output impedance, if pedal #2 is switched on and has a 5k output impedance, how does that affect the line being driven? After pedal 2 is it at 5k, or does the low input impedance it was given circumvent the issue? Or somewhere in between?

[@leightintle2940]

Hey Shawn, after pedal 2 it is at 5K. The input and output impedance are set by the circuit, not by what feeds it, and since each pedal is its own circuit, you get the output impedance of the last true bypass pedal in the chain that is on, or the impedance of the last pedal with buffered bypass, whichever is farther down the line.

[@ShawnCothran]

@@leightintle2940 Awesome. I had a suspicion that was the case, last TB(on) or last buffered. Thanks for the clarity!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

The 100 ohm is only in play if the pedal is "on" or buffered, so I wouldn't buy pedals based on any spec unless it's a buffer, in which case you want 1M input and 100 ohm output impedance ideally. There are no standards for pedals impedance wise so trying to buy based on that is going to be frivolous. Having a great buffer first and last is going to be the best way to create a firewall (impedance wise) so no matter which pedals are on in between the input and output buffer, it's only going to have minimal consequences.

[@josephestes7076]

May I make a minor suggestion? Because Mason is looking right and Brian is looking left, it might be nice to swap their positions in the stream layout.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for the tips!

[@josephestes7076]

@@VertexEffectsInc sure thing. Good stuff as always fellas.

[@Billkwando]

What is PBC

[@keithbriscoe99]

Thoughts on the George L kits for making patch cables? I'm about to invest in a board and now I'm concerned about all these solderless comments. Btw, I'm no pro...and not touring, and not spending huge money on pedals. Hobby player mainly. Shoot, maybe I need to start soldering....

[@sparkyguitar0058]

Instead of trying something so new to you, I would suggest buy a couple different cables and getting the feel of them. I use EBS Gold flat cables and have my board together for a couple yrs now with no problems at all. There are some pretty good other brands out there also. Look up a You tube video of 77 patch cables tested. My don't even rate all that good in this test but I spent a lot on all 4 sizes of these and again have had NO noise or durability problems in the 2-3 yrs of use. But I also cheat by having a silent modded 10 band EQ as my last pedal on board.

[@louiscyfer6944]

i have had george l on my board for 15 years, no issues whatsoever.

[@sparkyguitar0058]

@@louiscyfer6944 Did you solder yours? If you read the guy's comment, he sorta stated gonna START to solder. If building your 1st board maybe that's not the place to start. Just my opinion. Many mistakes can be made and trying to help with frustration. I never said "Never use George L's". So you do you and please try to help anyone who is asking for help.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Keith, if you like the cable, use it - but solder it. George L's are among the worst connection wise and the issues we have with solderless isn't with the cable itself, in most cases they're fine, but the plug connections are awful and even when the work, they're a compromise and the most likely failure in your rig.

[@sparkyguitar0058]

Mason I ain't trying to squeeze into your business. Just don't think the place to learn soldering is on cables buried on a board. I'm really not good at soldering either. In fact while putting in pots on my Les Paul dropped a hot solder spot on the back. Always have a reminder of things I can't do so good. I'm glad it's my own guitar and don't have to tell the owner....."Did I do that". Got to use the Urkel voice there to get the joke. I just seen the video you did about the M-5 multi-effect. Pretty good info on that. Smokes my old Digitech RP-10 I still have.

[@terryeaster1]

I take my old cables and friends cables and make my own... But i have some experience.. a couple hundred thousand dollars in electronics training. Yes i became a flight simulator tech so i could mod my pedals and build my own cables

[@Souldoubtrocks]

Mogami 2314 changed my life.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yes!!!

[@sixstringstruggle6508]

So aluminum does not shield. I did not know that. Hum........

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Not for electromagnetic shielding, only electrostatic

[@WarrenPostma]

@@VertexEffectsInc That doesn't make sense to me. I'm an amateur radio (Ham) guy, and we make antennas and shielding out of aluminum and aluminum works great for both faraday cages (shielding) and antennas. I'm not sure you guys are right here. Note that you do need chokes sometimes (ferrite) for some purposes, but chokes and shields are different things. Copper shielding in a guitar body does work better, but aluminum foil does have some effect. The foil in almost 100% of shielded cables is aluminum foil. The purpose of a choke is to make a good antenna into a bad antenna by removing its resonance. A choke isn't so much a shield as a "resonance changing" system. EMI and RFI and noise and hum are really the biggest hobgoblins for me. I'd love an episode on getting rid of Hum, EMI, RFI, and ground loop noise. Keeping your power supplies separate from your board is my number one tip. Don't put ANY pedal power on your board. It should be separate and be about 6 feet away.

[@motoki1]

Brought to you by Darden Restaurants

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Hook up the sponsorship!

[@erpringle]

I have been using evidence sis plugs and cable for a long time and have never had one fail after I put them together and they tested good, NEVER EVER. Say what you want but I go by personal experience. Sure, any cable, soldered or not, has the capability of going bad but I have never had one go bad and if it did I always have spares. If for some reason one does go bad I can fix it in 5 minutes on the spot no solder needed. Solderless definitely has it's advantages. Evidence isn't cheap but like you yourself said, you get what you pay for. Obviously you think you're the only person in the world that can build a board right doc, I think not. Common sense goes a long way. If you want to solder your cables that's all good but I think you're wrong to bad mouth all solderless cables. One more thing I will say about it is, if it's good enough for Dan, who I might add builds a lot of professional boards and I would bet more than the "doctor", it's good enough for me. This is just my honest opinion and I have built many boards and put together many solderless cables in my 67 yrs. But I do use only evidence sis and am no way affiliated with any company. Thank you very much. Great video

[@VertexEffectsInc]

It's one way to go, it will just never be superior to a soldered connection in any way, and for this reason you really see ZERO pros use it. There's not such thing as a lifetime warranty on a solderless cable.

[@mattjazz3]

Guilty of many of these..

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Aren't we all!

[@averyamadeusjacobson2650]

Olive Garden is trash, other than the breadsticks.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You mean you don't like Italian Dressing with the corn starch as the primary ingredient?