Top Grizzly Guns, What the Old Timers Really Used

[@kodiakkeith]

I was mauled on Kodiak while blacktail hunting some years ago. I survived because my partner shot the bear off me with a .300 Mag (did not kill the bear, it attacked another hunting party two days later). The first thing I did after a long recovery was order a .350 Rem Mag built on a Model 7 action from the Remington Custom Shop. This was back before Remington QC slid into the toilet and so it's a beautiful rifle. I never had the opportunity to use that rifle on a bear, but flattened plenty of blacktails with it. I've retired to the Arizona desert and that rifle is now my sons for use back in Kodiak.

[@30-06john]

Glad you came through that reasonably OK (I assume)! 350 Rem Mag is a great cartridge, and Remington knew how to make rifles back in the day! This video ends at 1956, when the 458WM and the belted magnum era started. Thanks for watching!

[@kodiakkeith]

@@30-06john Remington actually drew input from Alaska bear guides when designing the cartridge and the ill fated Model 600 rifle to house it. The consensus was a short action magnum that would push a 250 grain slug at 2500 fps. A lot of bear guides still use that cartridge which is why I chose it.

[@kodiakkeith]

@@dalebenson6859I saw quite a few in my years on Kodiak, all treasured by the old school guides.

[@gilangus2453]

😅​@@kodiakkeith

[@henryrodgers1752]

This was a very informative video on a subject that you have carefully studied. I live in bear country of NW Montana , about 50 miles south of the border with Canada, and my 348 Winchester Model 71 is always in my hand on hikes. Thanks for the video.

[@30-06john]

Thant's a great rifle you have! Thanks and thanks for watching!

[@danthemeatman9883]

My dad had one , he used to hunt moose in Canada 🇨🇦 never hear of them anymore ! It had alota recoil for a 12 year old kid !!!!!!!!

[@siegehammer63]

​@@danthemeatman9883that'd be bloody spicy!

[@kiasax2]

The first rifle I ever fired above my little .22 was a 30-06. I still have that 30-06 which was my Cherokee Grandfather's rifle that I inherited. It's an FN Herstal Mauser 98k. I spent my last teen years in the military, learning to be a sniper. I brought that up only to point out that my training makes me pretty solid as a shooter. That old rifle, now 81 years old, still fires straight and true. It's a tack driver out to 800 yards. There are some designs that are iconic and the Mauser bolt action rifle is one of them. I'll take my old 30-06 over most modern designs.

[@30-06john]

The 30-06 is always a good choice! Happy New Year and thanks for watching!

[@kiasax2]

@@30-06john Thank you. A very Happy New Year to you and yours. And, a big thank you for your videos.

[@dereksmith5019]

My dads' family used a 40-82 lever action model 1886 Winchester . There was only one larger rifle at that time , a 45-90 , the farmer in the next valley had one . My grandfather said it sounded like a cannon going off .

[@30-06john]

Those are great, classic rifles! Same for the 40-82, although I did not read of it's use on Grizzlies. Thanks for sharing!

[@dereksmith5019]

My grand father also told me , he removed the second barrel , ammo , because you could not hold it up , and he was a Blacksmith and Farrier . I'm told you cannot buy bullets any more for that rifle .@@30-06john

[@bearhuntd]

The airforce moved my family to Alaska (as it did many others) after the Korean conflict, in 1958. Our first home was in Nome, on the shores of the Bearing sea. He had brought his sporterised 30.06. During the summer, polar and brown bears would wander into town and become a nuicance. The elders would come to our home and fetch my father to dispatch the trouble makers. During our 2 summer stay there, he shot 8 polar and 3 brown bear. The elders knew dad had the largest rifle there. Having living here since then, l took his love of bear hunting. Today, l carry a. Sako in 375 h&h. It is a perfect outfit for bears of all stripes. Even a large brown bear will quickly succume to a single, well placed shot.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, 30-06 and the 375 H&H pretty popular for Bears! Thanks for watching!

[@politicallyincorrectandpro5856]

375H&H : one world…one cartridge 👍

[@marklomax7452]

Mention should also be made of the 30-40 Krag. Before the '06 became popular, a lot of old timers took large bears quite well with the 220 grain Krag cartridge. Most post-ww2 writers seem to approve only of magnums, but the old boys seemed to get by with sporterized Krags, Enfields, and Springfields.

[@30-06john]

In my readings, I did not come across any uses of the 30-40 Krag for Brown/ Grizzly Bears. Thanks for watching!

[@GeorgiaBoy1961]

Re: "Most post-ww2 writers seem to approve only of magnums, but the old boys seemed to get by with sporterized Krags, Enfields, and Springfields." Yes, that's right, isn't it? Canada, being a part of the once-vast British Empire, has had a lot of surplus Lee-Enfield .303 bolt-action rifles of various kinds over the years. Leftover SMLEs from WW1, No. 4 Mk. 1 rifles from WW2, and so on. According to hunters in the Great White North, the rimmed .303 cartridge has been used to take just about everything when it comes to hunting, including the biggest bears. Conventional wisdom says that a 180-gr. RN slug from a .303 isn't enough medicine, but someone forgot to tell them that! And the same is true of the 220-gr. RN fired from an old Springfield M1903 or Enfield M1917 30-06... and so on. The famous Danish Sirius Sledge Patrol, an elite unit of the Danish Navy, patrol the vast wilderness of Greenland - Greenland is a Danish protectorate - in teams of two men who move about on foot or via sledges pulled by teams of dogs. They are armed with Glock handguns chambered in 10mm Auto, and vintage surplus M1917 Enfield rifles in 30-06, and their preferred medicine for the largest polar bears is black-tip armor-piercing ammo. Those rifles are considerably older than any of the men using them, yet they still work fine - or the patrol wouldn't use them. Indeed, their choice of an older design raises the question: What's wrong with newer rifles? Why aren't they using them instead? The Canadian Rangers only just retired their Lee-Enfields about six or eight years back; they replaced them with a Tikka bolt-action chambered in .308 Winchester, a cartridge whose power is quite similar to .303 British (the .303 is roughly 90-95% as powerful as the more-modern .308 Winchester). Just because it is old, does not mean it won't work!

[@robgraham7238]

I have had the ability to talk with many alaskan professionals and many state there minimal bore is .338 with top of line projectiles because of bear anatomy and toughness of judging not only distances but also frontal area and penitration causing internal damage.

[@30-06john]

I am living in Alaska for 40 years, and have my share of Bear stories. This video deals with the era up to 1956, before the .338 Win Mag was introduced. Happy New Year and thanks for watching!

[@bobgordon1754]

That's now. According to Jack O'Connor Eskimos and others thought nothing of shooting big bears with the .30/30 and other mild cartridges. I fully believe that people kill bears not guns. The person is far more important than the cartridge.

[@aaronwilcox6417]

Lots of muzzleloaders were used in the western frontier and into the California gold country. Later lots of Sharps cartridges and old 50-70 rifles were employed in extipating bears in California. Later the 30-30 and then 30-06 were really used in huge numbers as they were highly produced and available. Interior grizzlies in the american west were capable of reaching massive proportions. In the book "the grizzly bear" the author reflects on an north idaho bear brought to an spokane falls butcher shop on a wagon that weighed on the scales at 1100 lbs. That was late 1800's. Prettt amazing

[@30-06john]

As I said in the video, I started about when smokeless powder became common, to about 1956, when the belted magnum era started. Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!

[@giles-df9yu]

By the arrival of the belted cartridge, 90 % of the bears in the lower 48 were made into bear skin coats..

[@captjim007]

Takes me back to the early 50's. My dad had a Winchester catalog from then with all the rifles and calibers and even the prices. He had circled the Super Grade 300 H&H it was $ 182.50 He ended up getting a standard Model 70 in 270. it was $ 123.00 Today I have the 270 and it's still getting the job done. It is 100% original and will shoot a 3 shot group all touching at 100 yards with hand loads.

[@30-06john]

That is a nice rifle! Thanks for watching!

[@captjim007]

@@30-06john 1950 M70 .270 B&L Balvar 2.5x8 scope with plunger mount.

[@mcbridecreek]

It’s tough to beat an old model 70 in .270. 130 grain bullets and 4831 powder make quite the classic combo!

[@christinamoneyhan5688]

As everyone knows, bullet type and placement is everything but, when things get heated , horsepower ( energy ) is nice to have too.

[@30-06john]

Bear guides tend towards larger cartridges for stopping Bears. Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!

[@sidekickbob7227]

Christina, you are absolutely right. You don't need all the "umpfh" if the shot hits correctly. -I'm sure you can take down a grizzly with a .22LR with the exact correct shot. BUT an excessive amount of extra energy, give you a way bigger window of allowed error, before the shit hits the fan.

[@danielravenstar4051]

@@sidekickbob7227 if you look.hard enuf, You might find the article of a young cree girl of the Yukon who put a 22 lr into the side of the head of 1 of the biggest bears known, They show pics of the skull with holes, That was a non agitated bear right out of den , springtime

[@georgeallen4495]

If you can't do it with a 30-06 you better quit doing it. Just my opinion.

[@30-06john]

The 30-06 is always a good choice! Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!

[@gregb.6682]

Outdoor writers have hyped up so many cartridges through the years but few have proven the get er done staying power of the capable 30-06. Regardless of caliber preference.. the shot placement means everything.

[@yourgodsisspeakingtoyouher4284]

Under all conditions against hard targets or only speaking against bears?

[@georgeallen4495]

@@yourgodsisspeakingtoyouher4284 Here in the U.S. a 30-06 will do what needs done.

[@30-06john]

In this vide, I was talking about Brown and Grizzly Bears. But the 30-06 has proven itself for over 100 years for all types of hunting. Thanks for watching!@@yourgodsisspeakingtoyouher4284

[@davidneal6920]

A very good summary of old cartridges. I also understand that back then projectiles were not always great quality so the larger width/weight projectiles were more popular then through necessity . Amazing some of those calibres like 45-70 are still going strong. In New Zealand almost everyone hunted with a 303 Lee Enfield from WWII until the 70’s when nicer and affordable sporting rifles became available 🇺🇸 🇳🇿

[@30-06john]

Yeah, early jacketed, or metal patched bullets, are not as good as today's bullets. The 303 has a long, great history! Merry Christmas and take care!

[@phild9813]

Yeah I completely agree. In particular, copper bullets are overperformers in lower grain weights due to their ability to retain nearly all of their original weight. Bullets like the A frame, partition, and hard casts are good too.

[@davidneal6920]

@@phild9813 yes I am really impressed with projectiles like Barnes LRX etc

[@AniwayasSong]

As an American/USMC Veteran, I inherited Papa's M1 Garand (30-.06), and it is still fully functional and just as 'Effective' today as when he carried it. Just because a platform is 'Old,' hardly means it isn't still usable! :-)

[@kiasax2]

@AniwayasSong While I was in combat as a young guy, your brother Devil Dogs helped keep myself and my team safe. So, Semper Fi, Marine. I agree with you completely. With great shooting platforms, the fact that they're older has nothing to do with their continuing usefulness. Your M1 Garamd rifle is an honest-to-goodness classic, and with the improvements in ballistics today, both of our older rifles are getting better, not worse. Happy and safe shooting to you!

[@leveractiongypsy1848]

I read alot of old text about old timer hunters in AK using a Remington Model 8 in 35 Remington old Grizzly. I think mainly because it was the first semi auto, but when people like Elmer Keith and Townsend Whelen write praise about it, I'll listen

[@30-06john]

Well, there was one hunter that was a judge in Alaska. He used the Model 8 in 35 Rem and killed many Bears over the years. He switched to a M1 Garand in 30/06 when they became common surplus after WW2. In my readings, he was the only person to use a 35 Rem. Thanks for watching!

[@dennisdanich7190]

Those two guys would recommend a 35 Whelen using 250 grain bullets

[@trueyankee4767]

.348 I am proud to say is still being used to this day in Vermont, Maine, and S.C. as the backup to my Browning 30-06 My grandfather got it in 1937 and interestingly enough it came with a calendar and each month showed the style of "Big Game" it could kill. It went from Whitetail to Elephant!

[@30-06john]

That's great! And thanks for watching!

[@yachtsmanbriar3519]

We lifelong Alaskans swear by a 338, like the Win Mag but my personal choice is the 338-08 or 338 federal as its known today. Mine is a M77 All Weather. I also use a 303 No 4 Mk 1, and of course the 44 Mag lever action as the truck gun. Sears Model 53 in 30-06 is my go to Cabin rifle, but for Kodiak and surrounding Islands I'll take my Winchester Model 770 in 300 WM with 250 Gr Barnes Round Nose slugs for those pesky Ursine with 180 Gr rounds for the blacktail deer. In AK always remember to carry a sidearm appropriately chambered for your area.Cheers everyone!

[@30-06john]

I have shot a lot of game over the years here in Alaska with my .338WMs, great cartridge. I kept this video to just before the .338WM was introduced. Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!

[@bearhuntd]

Moved here (and been here) since 1958. K love my 338 wm. Bought it in 73. Have 38 bears with it now. Many moose and many c'bou and countless sitka deer. Like your thoughts now that l am 68 ;)

[@markhale8084]

Kind of odd to use the .458 WinMag as a marker for some perceived change in cartridge preferences when it is based on the .375 HH which was and continues to be very popular when a big bore rifle is required.

[@30-06john]

I chose that date and cartridge since that was the beginning of the "belted magnum era" which introduced the 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag, 264 Win Mag, 358 Norma mag and many others. Thanks for watching!

[@johnkoenig496]

The Nosler Partition really helped large game hunters.

[@30-06john]

Yep, probably the first premium hunting bullet! Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!

[@unhippy1]

Its still the benchmark that all others are measured against

[@robertlosasso4222]

The Nosler Patition bullets were introduced in 1948 , something I didn’t know. It’s probably what someone else said in the comment section.. The bullet that everything else is measured by . I do know that Hornady also makes premium grade bullets as does Bitterroot and Norma .

[@jackdundon2261]

'first'???? It's STILL THE BEST. Name a bullet that's better?

[@sherlockbonez]

​@@jackdundon2261NAB

[@ThecrazyScotsman]

Good run down all great calibers the History of such really is something to be appreciated

[@30-06john]

Yeah, some are just not hear about any more! Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!

[@ThecrazyScotsman]

@30-06john Merry Christmas my friend

[@MichaelRobertson-i8f]

Following WW2 the 30-06 became the most popular prior to that the 30-30 level act action introduced in 1870s . Teddy Rosevelt favored the level action and the 405 was built for him and he considered it his favorite lion gun

[@30-06john]

Yep! Thanks for watching!

[@stevewalker4638]

Good bullet placement and tough bullets

[@30-06john]

Bullet construction is very important! Happy New Years and thanks for watching!

[@jamesyoung1547]

My dad has his grandfather's 35 Winchester. He said that particular rifle has taken every North American big game animal that was around. Great grandad used it for everything and had a friend who borrowed it for bear and elk. Dad and i both have the 405 Winchester. One of the best lever guns and cartridge combos made in either 35 or 405, for bear you really couldnt go wrong choosing them. Osa Johnson used a 35 Winchester for elephant and Teddy Roosevelt used the 405 for lion.

[@30-06john]

Those are some great rifles your family has! Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!

[@HypocriticYT]

I really like the 35 WCF. Bertram Brass makes casings for them. Best to order directly from them in Australia

[@jamesyoung1547]

@@HypocriticYT I've contacted Bertram and it's $350.00 for 100 empties

[@jk-kr8jt]

A friend has used a 243 for a few lions. It's definitely not ideal, but it'll work.

[@HypocriticYT]

@@jk-kr8jt a famous African hunter used a 6mm on elephant. Shot placement is everything.

[@johnh8197]

When my father passed away, I inherited his Marlin 336 chambered in .35 Rem. My father took countless North American game with that old rifle, including bear. Great video sir!

[@30-06john]

A Marlin in 35 Rem is a great firearm! Thanks and Merry Christmas!

[@PeninsulaGuitarInstruction]

I appreciate your opinion. Have 38 bears to my credit and have had the Sako M 995 TRG W/ 20" for 25 years. Have killed 4 bears at less than 16 feet, including one at point blank. At 68 years old, I would say anything can go wrong with any firearm. I trust mine and my handloads well enough. Thanks for your advice, sir.

[@30-06john]

Thanks! In this video, I quantified which cartridges and guns were used, from all the books I read, with a bit more emphasis with guides, bush rats and experienced outdoorsmen. This is for the beginning of smokeless powder, to about 1956, when the belted magnum era started. I tried to keep my opinion out of it. That said, I am living in Alaska 40 years now, I know Bear guides and Bear defense instructors. I have killed a couple of Bears. Thanks for your thoughts and stay safe!

[@ricklopez4703]

Grizzlies?

[@30-06john]

Yes, thanks for watching!

[@thomasflickinger1949]

06 or other caliber?

[@luvtahandload7692]

I know it's past your cut-off date but I have a Brown Precision Pro Hunter Elite in 350 Rem Mag that I always wanted to take a grizzly with. It's built on a Rem 673 action. Alas, it looks like it'll never happen. Thanks John!

[@30-06john]

That is a great rifle you have! Merry Christmas and stay safe!

[@seventhson27]

The .405 Winchester was Theodore Roosevelt's "big medicine" gun. He took a lot of game with it in America and Africa. For serious work in Africa he used a Holland & Holland .500/.450 which, if you read his book, he didn't particularly enjoy shooting.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, this deals with Brown/ Grizzly Bears in North America. Thanks for watching!

[@seventhson27]

@@30-06john Actually, I thought it was about the guns. The .405 Winchester was mentioned in the list. I thought I'd provide a bit of "background."

[@benneuls4142]

Cool video! As a former Alaska resident, I found this particularly interesting.

[@30-06john]

Thanks! Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!

[@RandyWilkes-c5f]

There’s a grisly guide in Alaska that says you can bring any gun you wish to hunt a Gris as long as it’s a 300 mag. Smart words .

[@30-06john]

I know a few Bear guides, a good bullet and being able to shoot in field positions is very important! Thanks for watching!

[@erichilgart]

Out of the lower 48 states, from what I have seen Montana has more grizzlies than Idaho Wyoming & Colorado combined. However my Grandfather and dad always talked about the 348 Winchester for bear on their Alaska trips being the cats meow. nice job on the video keep making us more!

[@30-06john]

Thank you, and thanks for watching!

[@jasonlommen4769]

I live in MT Griz country. They are mean AF. We never venture into the backcountry with a handgun, 10mm is my fav and a long gun. Typically .308 or greater.

[@Booneboarder]

@@jasonlommen4769Glock 40 10mm and 30.06 when I'm in the back country. Got to stay safe in western Montana, Flathead Valley.

[@jasonlommen4769]

@@Booneboarder Yes sir! 30-06 is a sweet cartridge. I also have a G40 and the 29 for shorter day ventures.

[@treypayne43]

Never hunted a Grizzly just Black Bear local to Tennessee here, I’ve used my 30-06 but taken most with my 308 and 7mm-08 did get one with my crossbow and this was a great video my friend 😀

[@30-06john]

Congrats on successful hunting, and thanks for watching!

[@Narsuitus]

The 30-06 has been my grizzly gun for decades. Does that make me an old timer?

[@30-06john]

Only if you want to be one, and thanks for watching!

[@GLOCKCOPG23]

It makes you “real world practical”. 😉

[@Paladin1873]

I live in Griz country and keep an old Marlin chambered in 35 Remington in my shop.

[@30-06john]

Yep, got to be ready! Thanks for watching!

[@johnnorman7708]

.30-06 with some fairly conventional bullets of 180 to 220 grain managed to do a fair job on some pretty big critters based on decent penetration with reasonable expansion . None of those loads in factory form were what you would call overly fast, so the bullets weren't overly stressed on impact; that contributed to decent penetration with what we would now call "soft" bullets. You toss in modern premium bullets in high performance handloads with modern powders, the old .30-06 can deliver terminal results a bit beyond it's legendary reputation. The gap between .30-06 modern loads and the old original loads for the .300 H&H magnum is now pretty minimal.

[@30-06john]

Yep, I agree, and thanks for watching!

[@chiefkikyerass7188]

300 savage and 30-40 Krieg..my grandad used most his life on anything big

[@30-06john]

Great cartridges! Thanks for watching!

[@tylermettler3906]

Read Elmer Keith...guns and ammo for big game hunting

[@30-06john]

I read the sections on Bears in that book. He used a 300 H&H and a 35 Whelen. Thanks for watching!

[@FuzzyT910]

I live in Sampson county nc, biggest black bear there is. A 30/30 is those guys favorite choice. Some 44 mag, but the get CLOSE to those 750+ lb critters

[@30-06john]

Those are large Bears! This video is about Grizzly and Brown Bears. Happy New Years and thanks for watching!

[@garywemmer9342]

Very historic, and close to my heart! Any one of those, will get the job done!!!!!

[@30-06john]

Yep, a lot of great cartridges! Thanks for watching!

[@robertlosasso4222]

In the old days they probably used a Sharps 45/70 .

[@30-06john]

Yeah, there were a lot of black powder cartridges used. This video starts at about the beginning of smokeless powder, 1894-ish, and those cartridges that made the transition to smokeless. Thanks for watching!

[@tjss5308]

The 30-06 and 30/30 have killed more game in North America then any other round.

[@30-06john]

Yep, very popular and effective! Thanks for watching and Happy New Year!

[@jimholloway3452]

Legally, they have. The .22 LR and .22 WMR might have them the other way.

[@johnnorman7708]

Take a close look at that .348 Winchester. With similar weight bullets, it kind of acted like a .30-06 in a bigger bore back in its era. Flat nose and round nose bullets cost it range, but at reasonable iron sight distances it did a pretty decent job at slapping down heavier game. And being a lever action also made it attractive to a lot of hunters.

[@30-06john]

Yep, still being used here in Alaska, by some Old Timers!

[@charlesporter1148]

hosea sarber noted Alaskan game warden favored the 30-06 with the 220 grain corelokt bullet for brownies and 180 grain pointed corelokt for general longer range use....he also liked the 160 grain ...270 load as well.with the old Barnes bullet....surprisingly he was dissapointed with .375 h&h bullet quality stating they did not set up well on brownies..sarber emphasized pin point bullet placement .....and was the best there was at it...

[@30-06john]

Yep, a lot of hunters have used the 30-06 to take Brown and Grizzly Bears over the decades! Thanks for watching!

[@MarlinWilliams-ts5ul]

Well researched, nicely presented. You have a winner here.

[@30-06john]

Thanks for the kind words, and for watching!

[@alancaron984]

The 35 Whelen uses a 30-06 casing necked up to accept .358 bullets.

[@30-06john]

Yep, great cartridge! Thanks for watching!

[@JohnVanLandingham-e7v]

The 30 30 was one of the most powerful rifles of its time

[@30-06john]

Yep, it being chambered in a handy rifle helped too! Thanks for watching!

[@OldManMontgomery]

Another good - older - book on the subject is "Keith's Rifles for Large Game" by the late Elmer Keith. Book by a contemporary author is "Dangerous Game Rifles" by Terry Wieland.

[@30-06john]

I did not read that book, but I did read the Bear section of Elmer's book "Guns and Ammo for Hunting Big Game". Thanks for watching!

[@ronalddunne3413]

I grew up with my Dad's bring-back 7.92x57 K98k Spreewerk Mauser. It's taken a few Michigan deer and now resides in my stable. First high-powered rifle I shot, it's with me here in Colorado altho not my top hunting rifle- i don't want to drill, tap and restock what is rapidly becoming a pricey antique.. I have another couple Mausers that have been gun-smithed into good hunting rifles (before I owned them), and they're up there with the .30-06 using European or my own handloaded hunting ammo... (American-made 8mm Mauser is down-loaded to not a lot more than .30-30 levels, for reasons of their own...

[@30-06john]

Nice rifles, and thanks for watching!

[@dennisdanich7190]

Many 1888 Mausers were brought back in WW1, so ammo makers tamed the 8x57 down. I made a 8mm-06, a 30-06 case with a 8mm bullet.

[@glenngray3119]

John, it looks like you forgot the 50's like the 50-70 and then the 50-90 which were black powder cartridges but they packed a pretty good wallop. The 50-90 was the premier buffalo hunters choice to take down those massive animals. I would think they would work for either grizzly or brown bear. They were also loaded with smokeless. Later on those cartridges were extended out to 50-110 and all the way to 50-140, but not by Sharps who stopped at 50-90. If you had a reason for not including them what was it?

[@30-06john]

In my readings, I did not read of any uses of those cartridges in the time frame of the video, from the beginning of smokeless powder, to the beginning of the "belted magnum era". Of course they would work on Brown/ Grizzly Bears. Thanks for watching!

[@vincentmueller3717]

In 1936 Winchester began chambering the model 70 in both. 300 and .375 H&H magnum, both belted cases.

[@30-06john]

Yep, that's what I said in the video! Thanks for watching!

[@HVSJR-n5q]

I have a friend who uses a 35 Whelen on deer. I watched him shoot one day and the opposite side of the deer looked like it moved out a foot when he hit it. It dropped without ever taking a step. I tease him now about it he nearly split it in half. But for bears I’d use it.

[@30-06john]

Yep, works pretty good for Bear! Thanks for watching!

[@mathewgoebel4078]

Thanks for the video love them old calibers Surprised i didn't see the 35 Remington in there.

[@30-06john]

I did not read of any use of the 35 Remington on Brown or Grizzly Bears. Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!

[@Leveractionjake]

Look up Judge John Folta I believe his name was!!!@@30-06john

[@tripplebeards3427]

I have a few 30-06…my favorite all around caliber. I also have a few 303’s, 35 rem’s in 336 and 7600 carbine , a 300 ultra mag, and a 375 ultra mag. Think my goto while walking around would be my 6.5 pound, 35 Whelen pump in Remington 7600 carbine. Might not be the most powerful of the group but I could dump some follow up rounds into a bear REAL fast if needed. It’s also the lightest and most compact of the group and equal to the 35 rem 7600 with more spank. Nice video of the older straight wall rounds! Shot a few black bear with 45-70 govt and they ran off like they weren’t hit with broadside boiler room placements. A 180 grain Scirrocco out of my 300 ultra mag dropped a nice bear its tracks. Took a 7’1” decent black bear with a 200 grain partition out of my RUM. It made it a good 35 yards before it expired with a broadside boiler room shot placement. Shot placement and bullet selection imo holds ALL the cards when trying to stop a bear in its tracks. Just aim between the eyes and hope it hits your mark.

[@30-06john]

Thanks for watching and Happy New Year!

[@tripplebeards3427]

@@30-06john Awesome, my comment magically came back after disappearing! Happy new year!!! Take me grizzly hunting!!!

[@gilbertgurule5395]

Would it be better to shoot through the front shoulder? Then then boiler room with partitions?

[@30-06john]

@@gilbertgurule5395 Well, that depends on the situation and rifle being used. For hunting using a 30-06 type cartridge, and the time, I would get the double lung, upper heart area first. A good bullet should damage both lungs, the Bear will run, but die fairly fast. For a Bear charge, then head shot, miss that and will still hit bone. If using a larger cartridge, then a upper shoulder shot will probably immobilize and kill the Bear. I hope this helps, and thanks for watching!

[@gilbertgurule5395]

@@30-06john thank you sir

[@tbjtbj4786]

Surprised that the 30-40 k was not on the list especially with the original 220gr load surplus kreg rifles and the 1895 winchesters and the single shot in it

[@30-06john]

I did not read of any uses of the 30-40 Krag on a Brown or Grizzly Bear. Thanks for watching!

[@robertreisner6119]

I still use my Winchester 30.06 bolt action rifle. Hunted all over Alaska with it from the late 70's until just recently.

[@30-06john]

Yep, great cartridge!

[@randymiller1604]

Great information

[@30-06john]

Glad it was helpful and thanks for watching!

[@freemandecker8584]

You got my attention with "What the Old Timers Really Used"... I couldn't help thinking this to be a run down on the Black Power profile on Bears.... but you follow up modern smokeless powder weapons ...

[@30-06john]

Actually, I published a video on Mountain Men Grizzly Guns just a few days ago. There I talk about what the Indians used, and guns of Spanish colonists, Lewis and Clark, and Mountain Men. Thanks for watching!

[@freemandecker8584]

@@30-06john black powder guns is more like making a cake ... adjusting the powder charge accommodate the many types of ammunition for use in just one rifle ...

[@robertlivingston1634]

You said the 270 was light for bear and I can't disagree but it's not nearly as light as the 30/30😮

[@30-06john]

As I said in the video, I was not going to include the 30-30, but I kept reading stories of it's use on Grizzlies. Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!

[@heydaddy6817]

​@@30-06john Here in Northern Canada 30-30 is used for all game including Grizzlies. Modern Bullets surely help too including Barnes 190, Buffalo Bore and Nosler.

[@AniwayasSong]

For myself, when I'm out in ANY 'Apex Predators'' territory (Bears, Mtn. Lions, Wolves/'Yotes, et al), I always keep my .12 pump action shotgun, and .44 magnum revolver on me/within instant reach. Truly, the best deterrent/early warning system I've ever known is my trusty dusty Doggo. I know for a fact he's kept-away at least three bears, and likely more (Given the fresh scat/marks discovered the next day), and there's just no better way to stay 'Safe' out there. LOVE the 'Histories' of those who were brave enough to first venture into the 'Wilderness,' and how they managed to survive it (Or even if they didn't)! Thank you! ;-)

[@30-06john]

A good dog is great! Thanks for watching and Happy New Year!

[@marcfitzhenry7581]

My great grand pappy used to hunt griz in the Canadian Navy with live battle ship ordinance. He wasn't in charge (cook) so don't try to blame me.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, that would work! Thanks for watching!

[@Satchmoeddie]

My uncle Fuzzy used a .30-30 and later on he found a Rossi or Taurus .357 Magnum revolver, but that was mostly for black bear.

[@Satchmoeddie]

I have grandpa's old .303 Savage too.

[@30-06john]

Those are all great guns! Thanks for watching!

[@Joe3pops]

There was a federal judge based in Juneau 1950s. I understand he exclusively used a Remington Model 8 autoloading rifle in .35 Remington for all of his bear hunts.

[@30-06john]

He did use a Model 8 in 35 Rem, but switched to M1 Garand in 30-06 when they became available surplus after WW2. Thanks for watching!

[@enigmaticgwichin1630]

My great grandpas 303 British is still putting animals down all these years later

[@30-06john]

Yep, a great cartridge! Thanks for watching!

[@colinvoss8484]

The last one killed in New Mexico was with a 30/30.

[@30-06john]

Yep, 30-30 pretty useful! Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!

[@mcbridecreek]

I believe the last big one in Utah was killed with a .25-35. Around 1923. It weighed 1100lbs!

[@holgerdanske3960]

Hi John, intersting video on bear cartridges. Can not figure out the book you using in this vid. Could you give me please a hint ... thx.

[@30-06john]

I used the Lyman 50th and 51th edition reloading manual for most of the cartridges. Some of the lesser known ones I used older Hornady and Speer manuals. Thanks for watching!

[@holgerdanske3960]

@@30-06john Hi John, thank you for your very quick response.

[@jameskennedy6982]

I have all the calibers shown, they are all excellent if used properly and on reasonable sized game. I do have a .35 Whelan Improved that is a dandy, but then I'm kinda in love with anything that goes BOOM! At 72, do you ever grow up?

[@30-06john]

That is a great collection you have! Thanks for watching!

[@tonynoel2844]

I love my 06 have 3 been reloading for them for 40 years but for bears I use my Remington 700 35 Whelen.

[@30-06john]

Yep, great cartridges! Thanks for watching!

[@jamiehurtt3530]

Two overlooked cartriges 358 winchester and its big brother the 35 whelen

[@30-06john]

The 35 Whelen was introduced as a wildcat in 1922. The 358 Win was introduced in 1955, right when this video ended. Thanks for watching!

[@johnvencill1511]

The 358 WIN is a great round . Underapreciated

[@gregjones2217]

My grandfather hunted and trapped the thorofare region of Wyoming from 1910 to 1935. He killed numerous grizzlies including a 10 ft. Plus boar. His favorite rifle was a 30.06. I inherited it and now my grandson has it. And he still hunts with it.

[@30-06john]

The 30-06 is always a good choice! Thanks for watching!

[@paulstoyek381]

The sloped weatherby stock design is revolutionary..IMO..

[@30-06john]

Weatherby had many advanced features! Take care and stay safe!

[@ladygrace5856]

In Oregon, around 1900'a near Florence, there is a stuffed 9' grizzly shot by a Winchester...1940-45 30-30 lever. It was shot by a female. I used to live in Oregon. I thought my GOD, it was huge. Pioneers did have runs in huge bears.

[@30-06john]

Yep, they are pretty impressive! Thanks for watching!

[@patricksimmons7449]

Very interesting, I like the 348 winchester, thanks.

[@30-06john]

Yep, a great cartridge! Thanks for watching and Happy New Year!

[@carolannesparkman6938]

Nice video!❤️😊👍

[@30-06john]

Thanks, and thanks for watching and Happy New year!

[@anonymousf454]

Great video Sir. Awesome channel. Do you have any videos on the 41 magnum planned?

[@30-06john]

Thanks for the kind words. Unfortunately, I do not own a 41M. Thanks again!

[@alanhope1190]

I’ve seen an original cap & ball rifle that was marked .45 calibre, but it was actually .65 calibre. I asked the owner and he told me it was brought to California in the 1850s and the original owner had it rebored and re-rifled to the larger calibre to handle the California grizzly bears.

[@30-06john]

Yep, California use to have a lot of Grizzlies! Thanks for watching!

[@paulx2777]

I have a copy of "The Grizzly Bear" by William Wright, copyright 1909. He was a bear hunter when he was younger. He first started out with a .44-40 Winchester lever gun with a worn extractor. "...it would not always draw the shell unless I put my thumb on it and bore down. This worked satisfactorily as long as I thought to do it..." 🤥 Well, he had a near miss with that grizzly (his first), so he bought a Winchester single shot in .45-100 that weighed 12 pounds. "...I selected this gun because I could always depend on it." The bullets were 600 grains of soft lead. Later on he killed 5 grizzlies with 5 shots from that gun in 5 minutes. It is an excellent book.

[@30-06john]

Thanks, I might have to find a copy!

[@artemusp.folgelmeyer4821]

I was hoping to see comments on what was used before the .45/70 of 1873. The Marlin was shown as an 1871 model chambering the 45/70 which I find curious as that was a military cartridge introduced with the Springfield of 1873. Was the 1871 model originally introduced with other chamberings prior to the 45/70 that allowed introduction of the 45/70 to it?

[@30-06john]

That is actually a Marlin 1881 that I show and mention in the video. From what I have read, Andrew Burgess made some lever actions for Whitney Arms before going to Marlin and creating the 1881. Thanks for watching!

[@artemusp.folgelmeyer4821]

Okay, then the model of 1881 was the model being referenced, and Marlin beat Winchester by five years with a lever action .45/70. I had never heard of an 1871 Marlin.@@30-06john

[@martymiller7318]

I read somewhere that the record brow bear was killed by a woman-- wait for it--- 22lr!! Granted lucky shot BUT

[@30-06john]

Yep, true! Thanks for watching!

[@blackforest270]

We need more power today; the bears today are pumping iron, taking steroids and a lot of them are on crack,the other day i saw a Grizz with tattoos all over his body and he had a shaved head.!

[@30-06john]

That`s pretty funny! Thanks for watching!

[@robertmyers4750]

The 35 Whelen has regained popularity in Mississippi. Due to diminishing of hunters in Mississippi and an expanding deer herd, it is now legal to use a single shot rifle with an exposed hammer of at least 35 caliber during primitive weapon season. However it destroys a lot of meat.

[@30-06john]

Yeah, 35 Whelen is a great cartridge! Thanks for watching!

[@robertmyers4750]

Would like to see you do another one if you have the time or inclination. On the old big bore black powder cartridges. 45-90 thru the 45-120, 50-90, 50-95, 50-110 and 50-140 @@30-06john

[@30-06john]

Yeah, I am actually toying with that idea!

[@robertmyers4750]

Looking forward to it@@30-06john

[@wilmamcdermott3065]

My uncle used 303 British

[@30-06john]

Yep, 303 British was popular! Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!

[@wilmamcdermott3065]

@@30-06john same and a happy New Year

[@wilmamcdermott3065]

I have a 4590 in 1886 built in Japan 400 grain 2300 Fps

[@30-06john]

That's a thumper!

[@wilmamcdermott3065]

@@30-06john big power.

[@chrisgunsandguitars1403]

Wow! The .33 WCF gets a shout out! Great black bear gun in my family. No one has had a chance to use it on bigger bears.

[@30-06john]

From what I have read, it was a favorite of some Grizzly Bear guides! Thanks for watching!

[@tbjtbj4786]

I ran across a 33 win in grate shape a few years ago in a pawn shop in fl. The story that came with the gun was the original owner was a professional bear and panther hunter for bountys on them and also for when the state was dealt with the screw worms. A parasite that would kill live stock. At the time if you could not dip to treat the animals the stock officer could kill it. Thats back when fl was a free range state. The guy bought that 33 new in the 1900 teens and was his working rifle and hunting rifle It was in good shape for the age and had half octagon 1/2 round barrel Had buck horn rear sight but the front was interesting it had a flip up ivory bead the guy said best guess was for a night sight. And I have read about some British hunters using a ivory bead for night sights for big cat hunting in India. I wonder if it was the same thing here for panthers. Don't know if the family got it back or not the shop had closed when I next came by. He had some original cartridges some full metal patch ( fmj) and a jsp with a lot of lead showing. Whish that old rifle could have told its story

[@cw2a]

Good Video John! ❤

[@30-06john]

Thanks CW! Merry Christmas!

[@brucemattes5015]

*Those 19th and 20th century hunters who hunted black and grizzly bears professionally for a living were excellent shots because the Darwinian selection process was brutal. The average, mediocre, and poor shots didn't live through the selection process. Neither the exact ball diameter of their patched ball percussion muzzleloading rifles, nor the caliber of the bullet in their cartridge rifles was as important as where each shot landed when they pulled the trigger. When I lived in Alaska a lot of the native Alaskans whom I met, which is to say those born in Alaska, carried bolt-action .30-06 rifles loaded with Remington Core-Lokt 220 grain soft point bullets; and they didn't feel undergunned.*

[@30-06john]

I am living in Alaska for going on 40 years! Thanks for watching!

[@paulstoyek381]

I give you alot of credit--hammering away with the big boys and no apparent flinch..

[@30-06john]

Yeah, I do practice a bit. The lever action is my 450M, I had a larger recoil pad installed. The bolt is my Ruger paddle stock 338WM, I only shoot that with a thicker coat! Thanks and Merry Christmas!

[@Jeff-sl8xz]

​@@30-06johnI know just what you mean I have two Ruger paddle stock rifles 300 winny and the 338 win mag and both are plenty stout on both ends of the gun just subbed to the channel second video I've seen

[@30-06john]

Thanks!

[@Jeff-sl8xz]

@@30-06john you bet I'm a very avid hunter shooter and collector never been to Alaska doubt I'll ever get the chance but I've hunted around the lower 48 in different states for big game

[@mikerobinson6606]

Great video.

[@30-06john]

Thanks, appreciate you watching!

[@papeep2694]

After the introduction of the model 70 rifle cartridges became like fishing lures. That is to say they were conceived as much to catch the hunter as the prey. Think about it. Take interest in the cartridge and now you need a new rifle to handle the cartridge. This coincided with the natural demise of the "old timers" who hunted with a tool as opposed to the come afters that hunted with the toy dejour. Simply put the no nonsense hunters were satisfied with a dead target but the new breed felt compelled to have their quarry really really dead. I'm in end game. Watched 75 years of trends. Nothing wrong with hunting surplus military rifles. 03A3 makes a fine firearm and in my youth could be purchased for less than $50 at retail and less on the secondary market. The 1892 Krag was a wonderful firearm and hit the market at the same prices as the 03A3 an others. Mausers were even cheaper and made excellent hunting rifles. But, I'm not shaming those who need to follow the trends and prefer their game really really dead. Just saying I'm happy with plain old dead.

[@30-06john]

Yep, nothing wrong with the older cartridges. Thanks for watching!

[@DummyRound]

Good stuff, John 🇺🇲👍

[@30-06john]

Thanks, this video turned out better than I thought it would! Merry Christmas!

[@CoolestDude38NC]

In the old days, the cowboy days, I think the 45.70 cartridge was the go to cartridge. Marlin used to advertise their lever action rifles chambered in 45.70, .444 Marlin as "Alaskan bush guide guns" that could kill a Kodiak bear. I also agree with the claims that the 30.06 will get the job done, however I dont think 30.06 was an oldtimer bear gun. With good shot placement the simple 30.30 Winchester can EASILY kill a black or brown bear. A grizzly bear maybe but Id prefer something more powerful myself.

[@30-06john]

The 444 Marlin is actually a newer cartridge, introduced in 1964. Thanks for watching!

[@CoolestDude38NC]

@@30-06john Very true. I read a MACV SOG guy named Jerry "Mad Dog" Shriver got one state side, Marlin lever rifle in.444 Marlin), brought it with him back to Vietnam. Said he enjoyed the psychological impact it had on the NVA during SOG cross border raids into North Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.

[@markburrell2778]

No 35 Remington ?

[@30-06john]

I did not read any uses of a 35 Remington being used on a Brown or Grizzly Bear. Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!

[@markburrell2778]

@@30-06john It's was used on Bonnie and Clyde.

[@Leveractionjake]

@@30-06john Judge Folta successfully hunted Coastal Alaskan Brown Bear with a .35 Remington.

[@JohnSmith-dh4gw]

I'm pretty sure I have several of those reloading manuals.

[@30-06john]

I used Lyman, Speer and old Hornady manuals. Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!

[@wilmamcdermott3065]

In the 60s I was reading a story in outdoor life about a young man that saved his dad and brother from a silvertip with a 2506

[@30-06john]

Yep, many different cartridges have been used on Grizzlies! Thanks for watching!

[@jeffsellers5069]

Can't believe you left out 38 -55 I know alot of black and grizzly bears have been took with this caliber it hits hard up to 150 and some cases 200 yrds.

[@30-06john]

In this video, I am talking about Brown/ Grizzly Bears. In my readings, I did not note any uses of the 38-55. Thanks for watching!

[@matthewlyness8161]

My grandpa used 303 British for bear hunting a lot and elk and moose

[@30-06john]

Yep, pretty good cartridge, and thanks for watching!

[@dennisdanich7190]

30 caliber guns are the top of the small bores 8mm guns are the start of the medium bores 375 guns are the start of big bores that qualify as " Big Game Rifles" the 416 caliber guns are the most common size used. 458 caliber guns and larger are stopping rifles, 47 caliber guns top the list Yes, a stopping rifle is designed to stop charging wounded big game, and you can hunt with it, but most people don't.

[@30-06john]

In this video, I show what was actually used for Grizzlies from beginning of smokeless powder, to the belted magnum era. You are talking about African classifications which is not used here in North America. Thanks for watching!

[@Walter-wo5sz]

Did you come across any stories involving shotgun slugs and bears?

[@30-06john]

Actually, a couple of incidents where birdshot was used to scare a Bear off. Thanks for watching and Happy New Year!

[@The_Conspiracy_Analyst]

.45-70. .375 H&H Magnum

[@30-06john]

Yep, they're on the list, and thanks for watching!

[@johnharris7353]

I believe the .270 was one of Jack O ' Conners . favorites. Ima .30/06 man myself. And my name ! John

[@30-06john]

Yep, a 270 was, and a 30-06 is always a good choice! Thanks for watching!

[@tomfisher47]

My favorites 348,405 win

[@30-06john]

Yeah, some old classics! Thanks for watching!

[@danielravenstar4051]

At least i have the 35 whelen, m77 mark 2 Zytel stock , With about 600, 310 gr woodleighs wish i could find a lee classic loader for it. The hammer system.

[@30-06john]

Those bullets will work! Yeah, finding a classic Lee loader in 35 Whelen will be tough. Thanks for watching!

[@danielravenstar4051]

@30-06john Another hard 1 to find is 444 marlin in lee classic loader And I got 2 on ebay last nite, Just a little rust on one, Nothing penitrating oil can't fix.

[@MarcoAtlarge]

you don't hear from bear hunters that have bad luck with a round

[@30-06john]

Thanks for watching!

[@markhoyt8643]

That was interesting. Thanks

[@30-06john]

Thank you for watching, and Merry Christmas!

[@giles-df9yu]

More bears have been taken by muzzle loaders than any other gun will ever take.

[@30-06john]

Well, this video starts at smokeless powder and ends at the start of the belted magnum era. Thanks for watching!

[@rupertmcnaughtdavis3649]

Very interesting,but the Model 1895 looks wrong with a scope on it.

[@30-06john]

The lever action I was shooting is my Marlin, sorry I don`t have a 1895. Thanks for watching!