Top Rope Solo Revisited! (1 year later*)

Hey BetaClimbers!
In this episode we revisit my most viewed video topic, Top Rope Soloing. A little over a year ago I decided to start sharing my knowledge with everyone and start a KZbin channel where viewers can learn and discuss all things climbing. It has been about a year from that date, time sure does fly, I am stoked that we continue to grow this cool climbing community right here on KZbin. From all of your cool comments on that first video, I put this video together to answer some of your questions and try a couple new ideas you all had. Thank you all so much for supporting this channel I hope it continues to grow so you all can have a place to find some great content to get inspired and learn some new things from each other!
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[@linuxlife]

Regarding moving from climbing to descending - even if you don't have a jumar, you can safely take your load off the microtrax and swap it to the gri-gri without worrying about the possibility of jamming up the system. After the gri-gri is loaded, you can do the "rope trick" and tie a knot in on a bight below the gri-gri. After you have a loop in the rope, put your foot in it and stand up. This should take the load off the microtrax and put it all on the gri-gri. Then, while still standing, you can remove the microtrax and do whatever.

[@randomizednamme]

Nice tip, hadn’t seen this idea yet

[@Papershields001]

Did my first top rope solo with your techniques this morning! As an introvert I’ve gotta thank you. It was so nice to climb without a belay partner staring up at me, giving questionable advice while I’m sweating and struggling up there.

[@paulinfrancis]

I’d recommend having a safety loop on the Ascension, and leave it connected to the rope until the GriGri is loaded. Then you’ll always have two things connected to the rope until you start abseiling.

[@lloydwhite3198]

GREAT VIDEO. THANKS AND GODSPEED.

[@topikarj1]

My current setup is with two ropes. Other one has Grigri on it and the other line has a traxion. This comes pretty handy if you want to practice the crux going up and down the route so you can safely remove the traxion while you are on belay all the time. Also you have two systems all the time when climbing in case of a failure.

[@BetaClimbers]

Topi Karjalainen that’s a great way to do it. 🤙🏻

[@mls01981]

Just tried your way today. As others have said before, it's annoying to repeatedly pull up the Grigri, but it was so much faster to clean and rap back down. Otherwise, I used the Microtrax and a Ropeman 2 as my backup -- super secure and no fiddling with the Grigri.

[@sergeantcrow]

Excellent ! Thank you for vid.. Ha ha.. I love how we have so many combinations available to use for TR.. I don't have a Jumar but have just ordered a Chest Ascender to add in to the mix.. I expect to be able to use that as a 'Jumar' with varying length slings as a 'handle' or 'foot loop'. I use Shunts for TR but I realise the Shunt is not to be used with a single 8mm rope. The Ascender on it's way, and I am glad it is.. When I learn about the 'Teeth' issue.. ( Correct me if I am wrong..) .. I think the toothless Ascenders fail at a similar load that a tooth one would tear a sheath.... and can even cut a rope.. I do like this man's advice about 'Controlled' environment..

[@redanansi]

Please be mindfull of using the Shunt, that akward falls could risk the rope pulling free from the shunt. Please watch kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpmYhn2Eq9d_ja8

[@timdobbins8996]

Hi Josh thnx for posting! I use a micro traction backed up by a mini traction for redundancy but I use a bungy cord on the first traction and put this over my neck in order to keep the device as high as possible. This is important so that if I do slip the teath engage immediately and this reduces the risk of the teeth damaging the rope. Yes it's only a few inches but I find this gives me more security. I also weight the rope by coilling up the excess rope and suspending it off the ground. Cheers

[@BetaClimbers]

Sounds good 🤙🏻 Thanks for sharing!

[@FenrirTheWolf87]

Don'T get me wrong but you definitely should not give people the idea of TRSing without backup device. To tie backup knots is never a ad idea, BUT in this setup you could have a fall of several meters to your backup knot. The forces coming up in that case can easily be higher than what the micro traxion is made for. In other words a backup knot will not help you if you only devices blows up and you left with no connection to the rope. Second of all just read the instructions of Petzl which clearly states that two devices are mandatory for example a Ascender. Why would you have it on your harness, always, instead of just putting it on a rope and do a proper setup including a chest harness? In my opinion that clip shows really unsafe TRSing skills which should be not taught like that to other people.

[@SmithTrek]

Thanks for this great video and thanks for demonstrating the rescucender trying to figure out what secondary progress capture device I want as back up and for knot passes, might have to go with the tracks

[@philphilphil]

Thanks for showing various options

[@bonefishboards]

A fifi hook on the harness (or a short quick draw) comes in handy when unweighting the mini-trax in those situations.

[@WorldClimb]

I keep a tibloc and round stock biner on the back of my harness.

[@jonathanharrison4890]

Tow the second progress capture device (two microtraxions are great) up the rope with a loop of string around your neck, such that the upper device is positioned at about your chest. This maintains some separation between the two devices AND maintains the upper device in an upright orientation, thus minimizing both shock loading and loss of progress if you should fall or otherwise need to weight the system. The upper device becomes primary, as it always engages first (barring a malfunction); following in a downward orientation, the lower device is a secondary backup, just for redundancy. Use string light enough to break before your neck would break, just in case you take a strange fall of some kind, where your upper body needs to fall away from the device -- I don't recommend using a 2' dyneema sling for towing as sometimes shown in the Petzl literature; unbreakable slings can create some nasty whip lash on the back of your neck in some scenarios. I actually use a short loop of narrow bungee around my neck to tow the upper device, because it has some nice give to it. If you go the bungee route, you may wish to sleeve the portion that goes over the back of your neck so the bungee material doesn't pinch your skin. I use a short length of clear vinyl tubing for the sleeve. I would like to think a complete lack of friends (or climbing partners) is not the reason I have "perfected" this system.

[@jonathanharrison4890]

Crap. I just read Tim Dobbins comment, which is almost exactly my set up. Sorry, Tim!

[@adamborg1]

Around you neck?! Jeez

[@towersknotflowers9067]

Love your content! What is your current angle into rope access as your current profession?

[@BetaClimbers]

BrocNJessica Thanks! Yes I own a company that’s works on inspecting tall structures I found it’s the best way to make my passion my career. Lol

[@tefrenatgmail]

The newer Nano Traxion is safer than the Micro Traxion out of the box. It always grabs the rope, no knob to file off.

[@tristanfisherfleming]

I use a ropeman 1 ascender for top rope solo, basically a trax but with grooves instead of teeth. Slick little unit.

[@tangostrangesoda]

that might not be safe, check out this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/aIS6kGBsjtaWmJY

[@za8002fsr]

Petzyl recommends using two different devices on the single rope setup for added redundancy in fail modes. If you do another video on TRS try out the Rescucender + Microtraxion. I’d be keen to see your comments on that. Cheers!

[@drew5334]

The Petzl Shunt is similar to the Rescucender, but it has a strong spring action which avoids the issue of the device sliding down the rope.

[@jaeimp]

A ton of hardware makes everything more complex, and prone to silly mistakes. What about just using a Prusick tied to the Micro Traxion as in this image: user-images.githubusercontent.com/9312897/93829218-2a3afb80-fc3b-11ea-800a-504750e9cd6a.png?

[@jaeimp]

I have been using two Micro Traxion's tied to two strands of a static rope top anchored with a figure 8 bunny ears at the top, and It feels extremely safe and much less clunky than the two Micro Traxion's knocking against each other (@5:57). user-images.githubusercontent.com/9312897/99887538-2ca5db80-2c13-11eb-837f-6a8233defcbe.png (or alternatively, user-images.githubusercontent.com/9312897/99918290-dbb1e800-2ce3-11eb-809f-b0b76705fd2a.png ) NOTE: Micro Taxion's are impossible to loosen under weight, so you can either use the Jumar (as in the video), or make an alpine knot on one of the strands of the rope (opposite to the one with the Gri Gri) to stand on it, and untie the Micro Taxion devices off the belay loop.

[@za8002fsr]

I’ve been just using my gri gri plus for TR solos recently because it’s better training for lead (you have to pull the slack), a bomb proof device built for high force and easy to descend to work on cruxes. I do use a steel maillon for connection so that’s bomber. If I was doing long more crusy TR solos I’d use my Microtraxion plus Ascendor setup so I wouldn’t need to fuss with taking in slack.

[@harleymartello4544]

@@jaeimp this is a good set up before I got into protection I used a setup very similar to this

[@katieverheggen146]

Mhm while it should work with the trax's, I personally would feel like it's a bit shady. Falling into a toothed device isn't optimal but at least your link from your trax to your harness is very short. The falling impact will never be really great, hence you can get away with static ropes. those static ropes in turn also mean you can get away with those toothes which normally would tear a (dynamic) rope to shreds. One thing I would point out as advice is that redundancies on the same rope only have a limited effect instead of a system wide effect. the preferred method would be to toss a second rope going to a seperate anchor to hold your second trax. that way if anything fails you've got a worthy backup. Anyways. Happy new year buddy. Keep on climbing.

[@aza1479]

Great comment

[@anthonylacy4064]

Wild... I was one of your first subscribers and went to go find you today and said I wasn't subscribed... Anyway, glad you pumping out videos still.!. Keep it up brother

[@BetaClimbers]

Anthony Lacy lol hit that bell! Maybe that why 🤣🤙🏻

[@anthonylacy4064]

Been super busy with work. Taking a few months off of work so I can wonder the Rocky Mountains again

[@BetaClimbers]

Anthony Lacy There you go! Nice. When the mountains call you better answer haha

[@anthonylacy4064]

100%

[@randomirish2]

Thanks for your content it's very clearly explained. I'm unfortunately living in a where with no tree buts lots of limestone crags I was wondering if you would ever do an episode where you show how to safely made toprope anchors using both natural and passive protection.

[@BetaClimbers]

randomirish2 awesome I will definitely do that 🤙🏻

[@randomirish2]

@betaclimber thanks so much keep the content up it's awesome!

[@lucaslothbrook5388]

Shunt locks immediately! No sliding down at all. I'll ❤ my shunt

[@kraxelander3325]

you don´t have to remove the knob that keeps the device open, in case of a fall the device will lock anywas even if the device is locked open, it´s designed that way! please comment anyone, everytime it did lock, even when device was locked open...

[@MSchon-qf3fl]

I’ve been using the rescuecender for years without issue. If you fall on it , it locks immediately. If you want to hang you just let go and sit back a little and it won’t slide. This video doesn’t describe a real world scenario.

[@jaeimp]

I love your videos and particularly this one, and I would advise anyone reading alarming comments in here to disregard their tone, and ask themselves whether there is substance to the comment. In any event, I find that using a single rope strand with two Micro Traxion devices as in @6:53 doesn't feel optimal. I just gave it a go again, and was amazed at how deformed the top Micro Traxion was when I disengaged it off the rope (the lower Micro Traxion was completely wedged into it, and splaying the plates of the top one from side to side). It didn't break, but it didn't feel right. I don't quite like the system with a Prusik that I posted as a comment before because, even if it may be safe, the Prusik prevents the Microtraxion from sliding as easily as it would otherwise, and I don't want any possible entanglement of the Prusik on the toothed device (i.e. freak accident). Here is what I posted: user-images.githubusercontent.com/9312897/115153526-75d44d00-a044-11eb-9e8f-18f5f644a688.png I would really want your opinion on using two strands tied up to the anchor at the midpoint with a figure 8 bunny ears, or two ropes as Petzl recommends (www.petzl.com/INT/en/Sport/Setting-up-a-self-belay-system-on-two-ropes-with-two-ascenders?ActivityName=Multi-pitch-climbing ). If needed I can always use a 300' static, as opposed to a 150'. I don't see any need to necessarily use two different devices, given that the Micro Traxion is a fantastic device. Also the Petzl Microcender is discontinued. I haven't tried the Rescucender, which offers the alternative to the toothed Micro Traxion. I use one MicroTraxion for each strand, and a single carabiner. In this way the Micro Taxion devices sit side by side, as opposed to on top of each other, and I can also disengage them with an alpine knot as a foot step on the strand opposite to the Gri Gri. This would be the set up: user-images.githubusercontent.com/9312897/99918290-dbb1e800-2ce3-11eb-809f-b0b76705fd2a.png

[@WeEzZL]

I'm looking into getting started top rope soloing and what you are describing in that last paragraph is probably the most appealing alternative I've seen so far. How has it fared?

[@ledinhhuy88]

before getting out of the trax at 5:36, i would clip myself to the ascender to maintain 2 tie points on the rope. then, pull slack on the grigri to engage it before unclip from the ascender. then, i'd lower.

[@BetaClimbers]

Warren Huy Le Great tip thanks!

[@normenradvany5513]

Yes, I guess that point need a backup. Prusik or one more device. Am I right? (just a beginner)

[@BetaClimbers]

Normen Radvany yeah that’s right, try to always have a back up.

[@jaeimp]

I tried that, clipping a quickdraw to the ascender (Petzl), and I found it hard to disengage the ascender after I had all my weight on it (no foot holds). Pulling slack on the grigri didn't do the trick, and I had to tie a Prusick above the ascender to disengage it. Wouldn't it be easier to just tie a figure 8 or overhand below the grigri as a back-up before removing the Micro Traxion?

[@ledinhhuy88]

@@jaeimp glad to hear you tried it! i left out that detail. 1 normal size quickdraws sometimes doesn't provide enough slack to get out of tooth cam even though the grigri is engaged. after that experience, i clip myself in with a PAS (i use an adjustable tether), i also see sb uses 2 quickdraws. your suggestion sounds good to me. in this situation though, we're removing one engaging contact point so it's better to replace it with another static/engaging one. cheers!

[@ganlet20]

Check out the Sterling VT Prusik. It uses thicker rope and fewer twists so it’s easier to reposition. It’s popular for backup a mechanical progress capture device.

[@BetaClimbers]

Jon Courtney I have used them before but not in this setup I’ll give it another try 🤙🏻 thanks man

[@BowlineDandy]

I think what people meant when they said redundancy was adding a second rope attached to another anchor. Or having the same rope attached to 2 points?

[@BetaClimbers]

Yeah probably. Ill eventually give them what they want and make a video like that. lol

[@matthias6337]

Thank you for this review. Can you also try this rope-solo scenario with a CT RollnLock? Would be interesting to see how does the RollnLock behave. RollnLock is a serious competitor of the Microtraxion so would be also important

[@BetaClimbers]

Matthias thank you I’ll look into that!

[@BetaClimbers]

Hey just watched a sort video on those CT RollnLock they look pretty cool but they also have a lock open feature which like I mentioned can be dangerous for top rope soloing. I don’t know how easy it is to alter them but it’s very simple for the trax’s. Hope that helps!

[@matthias6337]

I watched a video from "Ripperkorn" he is using the RollnLock for RopeSolo... its works. But I wanted you to check the difference in behavior compared to the microtraxion

[@ripperkon]

@@matthias6337 I started using the Wildcountry Ropeman 2. I like it even more than the Rollnlock.

[@50StichesSteel]

@@ripperkon The whole reason he mentioned the roll n lock is to try and get away from using spiked toothed ascenders though. The roll n lock uses stair like ledges to pinch the rope

[@youngmodulus4617]

Instead of using a shunt, maybe try the safe-tec duck R. Industry standard rope access back up device. Spring loaded like a shunt so it will grab immediately and won't slide back down like the rescuecender. Also designed for only one rope, not two like a shunt. There are two versions, one with an aluminium cam and one with a stainless steel cam. The aluminium one is obviously lighter but I find that the stainless steel one slides up the rope easier. Especially good if there is some weight hanging on the tail of the rope.

[@minecraftbers]

Hi! Have you used the Safe-tec duck and ENForcer for TRS? I am looking into getting the ENForcer for it. Does it work well?

[@allancarpenter3127]

I would NOT recommend using a Petzel micro Traction, as it is toothed and well known to damage rope. I would recommend a Petzel shunt or a CT roll and lock. both ideal for rope soloing. Using a Prussic above the device is a good idea and will work as a back up.

[@dash8465]

Word to the wise… never ever mess around with these capture devices in the house with a naked/empty harness.. especially a Traxion. Some time ago I was testing one on 8mm static and got myself jammed up 2 paltry feet in the air without a backup (3rd) ascender or a foot lanyard (was messing with pulleys) thanks to also trying out a new (empty) harness, which turned out to be hell uncomfortable. Second lesson… *always always always* have a knife readily accessible… I had a knife, like I do 24/7/365, otherwise I’d still be swinging.

[@michaellopez-lq5fn]

Harry Houdini would be ashamed

[@babakvaezi3871]

Cool video , with room for improvement regarding using the gear in right order 🤙

[@Brusselsproutsk8]

I use two ropes to be extra safe, bit more faff but it really is rock solid. I use a Petzl Microcender on a dynamic and a Traxion on a static. The Microcender is alot kinder on the rope, doesn't have the same biting as the Traxion. The Traxion i place on the static which is attached to me via parisian sling around my chest, this really helps in keeping the gear well apart from each other and obviously helps in any mechanical malfunctions using two of the same bits of equipment. I use the static for going up and down the rope with a jumar and grigri. Just sharing my method here, there are plenty of ways but i read so much info and this is by far the one i developed to feel safest. Weighting the bottom with your bag or boots is a great way like you mentioned to let everything run smoothly through the ropes👍 Last bit of safety, if your messing or changing over devices pull a bite of rope from below and tie an overhand in the rope .

[@50StichesSteel]

Ever try the CT RollnLock? Pretty legit ascender with no teeth..Can also double as a pulley

[@BetaClimbers]

50 Stitches Steel yeah I do think I remember taking a look at it. think I didn’t like that I couldn’t bypass the mechanism that keeps it open.

[@archer242424]

This video makes me want to get into TRS

[@pitviper1445]

As we all know, the Petzl shunt is only designed for a secondary safety line as a fall arrester. That's it!

[@healingtouch22]

Hey, thanks for the awesome videos. Whattaya think about attaching one microtraxion to each rope strand to make system more redundant (when using two lines for solo TR)?

[@BetaClimbers]

Sasang Doc yeah that works great and is a safer method. I should have a video this weekend on the topic again with some new devices I have been testing for awhile. 🤙🏻

[@CalvinArterberry]

Hi, I was wondering what type of camera do you use in your studio?

[@BetaClimbers]

Calvin Arterberry I’m trying to get all my gear on my Amazon storefront now, the link is in the description. But the camera is a 1DX Mark ii. I think it’s way overkill for my videos but I’m also into photography so I use it for that as well.

[@vrgpy]

Have you tried using a Petzl Tibloc2 instead of the traxion?

[@MikkoHaavisto1]

Do microtraxions get less reliable when they bump into each other? What about ropemans, since I'm using two of those to top rope solo. Wouldn't hanging on just a grigri without a backup or hand be too much of a risk?

[@BetaClimbers]

Yeah the manufacturer would say it’s a risk and probably any climbing guide would tell you the same. But it’s a risk I’m willing to take from time to time, the only way I can see that killing you is using an old worn gri gri and a thin rope lower than the recommended size. Then when you leaned back for the first time for rappel you would go for a ride you couldn’t stop. For safety sake tie an over hand before you let go. Which is prob what I would have done if I wasn’t 2 foot of my floor 😂 lol thanks for that important comment 👍🏻 I’ll check out the rope mans, I haven’t found the trax to interfer with each other.

[@jeffilse5027]

I use two devices on a single rope like this, but use a chest harness to keep the upper device(on a 30cm runner) higher. It's slick. They never contact each other. Petzl has some good documentation and suggestions about solo roping.

[@BetaClimbers]

Jeff Ilse that’s interesting I’ll go check that document out. Yeah the chest harness would make sense, I guess it’s just a style preference for me. I just wanna get as close to forgetting the ropes there as I can if that make sense. Cool to here all the different styles out here.

[@CaliforniaTravelVideos]

@@BetaClimbers See 4.40 here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qp2XgoufgZaoqLM

[@DuBCraft21]

I have heard from other places that if you are going to run redundant self belay devices, it is best to run 2 different devices because different devices have different failure modes. Also, why don't you extend the upper device with a dog bone and 2 anti-cross-loading locking carabiners? That way you don't have the issue of the 2 devices interfering with each other.

[@BetaClimbers]

DuBCraft21 great comment 👍🏻 I’ll try that out.

[@OllyBoardy]

Trax and microcender (the old style rescuecender that doesn't slide back down)

[@landon1460]

What rope are you using?

[@HaasGrotesk]

After watching your rope solo I went out and bought 2 Micro traxion cause I wanted to try rope soloing but I don't have a gri gri. I use a Black diamond ATC guide. Do you have any tips on how to switch from Micros to the ATC. I can't figure it out. I've been thinking of using prusiks to pull myself up to release the weight of the micro but then I'm stuck on the prusik. I haven't dared to use them yet. Not even to climb a tree until I figure out how to switch to rappel. Got any tips or could you maybe make a video? It would really help!

[@BetaClimbers]

Cool! prob would make it easier to just invest in a Gri Gri. They are a great tool but I think I have an idea of how you can do it. Ill try to put a video together for you maybe for this Saturday.

[@HaasGrotesk]

@@BetaClimbers Yeah that's probably going to be the next thing I buy but I'd really appreciate if you could make a video for the ATC. I've been trying to figure it out the whole evening but I just can't seem to get to slack out consistently and safely with the ATC. I managed once but I'm not able to repeat it. Not pretty good when you're hanging by yourself in the middle of nowhere :D

[@BetaClimbers]

Karl Schaeffer Yeah like Haas said. I use a static line so there is less bounce it’s also nice for the rope to be on the thicker side as well.

[@BetaClimbers]

HaasGrotesk hey I hope my new video answered your question thanks for the support 👍🏻

[@MattMcConaha]

You can attach a prusik or autoblock under the ATC to your leg loop which will act as a hands-free brake, then switching to the ATC is pretty much just like switching to the grigri. The prusik brake is common practice as a backup in ATC rappelling, so if you don't know what I'm talking about just look up a rappelling video. Also, you can tie a short prusik foot loop down below the ATC, then when you stand on it the ATC will be automatically locked down until you stop standing (at which point your brake hand should be in place.) Typically you don't want to load below the gear you are trying to remove, but the trax can be placed onto or off of loaded ropes so it doesn't matter.

[@neilrowe5857]

Try a camp goblin, it is rated as a backup device and does not utilise teeth.

[@theopenacademy9102]

8:27 lmao I would totally poop myself a little bit

[@davidsimpson3885]

My prefered Method is still with a shunt, best vid for this is dave Mcloeds vid.

[@mattking3852]

FYI the Shunt and the Micro Traxion both start to damage the rope at 5kn no matter being toothed or toothless. But remember we should ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be using a dynamic rope to keep the forces down. That said even if you weighed a kilo newton, you sitting hard down on the rope only doubles the static force to 2kN which isn't going to happen if you are using a dynamic rope(the rope will absorb some of that). So less than 2 kN. Now lets say there is a 1 foot to 1.5 feet of slack for some crazy reason... No big deal. Remember the dynamic rope(lots of stretch), our soft bodies, the stretching of materials in our harness and synching of knots in the rope will all lessen the force each time we fall or staticly load the rope. So well below 3kN if we even weigh 1kN. The Micro Traxion is way more efficient than the Shunt, but Im sure you know this already. So dont be afraid to try out the Micro Traxion.

[@harleymartello4544]

This is why I'd be in your climbing jail . When I first started climbing I used a prusik with no hardware, here's where it gets interesting I would tie an adjustable piece of thin bungee cord (like what they put inside a tent rod) to the loop on the prusik to keep it loose so it would ascend well the bungee would be attached to a steel chain link twist lock (not sure the technical name) anyway when I put my weight on it it would engage because the bungee was tied in a tag and prusik fashion as well. It works perfectly for top rope solo (don't recommend though because I would hate for anyone to get hurt) but it works great for me but then again I've never actually fell I always rest and my area has abundant shelves to rest on.

[@steveoxley3849]

I've been using the rescusender and it dominates.

[@raphaelbeinhauer9242]

If you didn't have a hand ascender with you for the transition, you could just pull the grigri right underneath the trax, then take a footlock on the rope and unweight just enough to clip out of the traxion.

[@raphaelbeinhauer9242]

Also, have you ever considered a trailing backup device for rope soloing? I use the Skylotec (ISC) Rocker at work, which is very rope friendly. It would have the same issue as the Rescuescender, because it will slip down, but it is easy to engage. You can also lock it in position. It does trail nicely even when hanging right in front of you, I've footlocked up some ropes with them just for fun.

[@raphaelbeinhauer9242]

I believe the Camp Goblin is a device that you can either use as a backup device going both directions or lock it so it only goes up. Might be a good option to explore. And for people that don't want to bother with changing to a descender and don't mind a little bit of weight, the Taz Lov2 is a fall arrest device you can descend with.

[@BetaClimbers]

Yeah true but like I mentioned you just don’t want to get them jammed up against each other. I’ll check out those other devices you mentioned below. I use a Kong back up for work it’s actually right behind me in the video. I wonder why I didn’t think of trying that lol maybe will make a top rope solo three with all the devices you guys are all mentioning 😂 it seems there is a lot of ways to skin a cat on this one.

[@luis.borges]

to descend why don't you use the grigi higher that the microtraxion using an extension sling?

[@Olopnogitron]

I think it's because it would be nearly impossible to thread a grigri on a weighted line. By installing the grigri below the microtrax, you're on an unweighted part of the line, which makes installation possible.

[@luis.borges]

@@Olopnogitron sure, I could I miss that 😆

[@thusneldamuller37]

Thank you very much for this video! Did you try using a prusik above the Micro Traxion? like you did with the shunt but with the micro? Thanks :)

[@BetaClimbers]

Thusnelda Müller yeah I think what works best is a VT Prussic you don’t want anything thin that can be pulled into the trax and perhaps with something spacing between the two. I haven’t yet tried that out I will soon. Thanks for the comment!

[@tammytucker971]

How about learning to use a VT?

[@fordguyfordguy]

why not a trax backed up with a tibloc?

[@merykk6608]

You should look at arborist stuff it made to work in tree son it should be fine

[@katieverheggen146]

Myeah... A traxion costs what? 50 bucks. A zigzag costs a lot more than that and then you also need to buy a rope wrench.

[@civedm]

What about a Camp Goblin? Its small, slides on the rope nicely, has no teeth, but is expensive as hell at $180.

[@ButterBallTheOpossum]

Yeah. You might as well spend the extra money and get a petzl asap at that point.

[@zachhawkins5225]

I dknt thinknit was out when this video was posted, but couldnt you use a petzl ID for this? With a Tibloc below it for redundancy? That would give you the ability to descend without having to switch devices, and you wouldnt need to take your weight off the tibloc to disengage it as it will only engage if the ID fails. Plus, the ID has the panic feature unlike the Petzl Rig so no chance a fall could drop you by the handle catching. If anybody sees a problem with that setup please point it out. Besides the ID costing all the monies.

[@BetaClimbers]

Check out my newest video well maybe my second or third newest with the Taz that is not my updated favorite way

[@officerwebb620]

I know you mention the thing about filing the knobs off to prevent the pully function so you don't fall but I don't see you rigging the ascension gear with backup protection like using a belay/rappel device or some other technique to back up the ascender in case you fall

[@BetaClimbers]

Brian Webb right this method here with one rope is a bit more of a unprotected method making it more risky and advanced. The trade off is more freedom less restriction and less gear needed. I have a video called super safe top rope you can check out where I use a back up line but still try to get the least amount of restrictions as I can.

[@officerwebb620]

@@BetaClimbers Cool I'll check it out, I have a question though because I'm new to this but lets say I anchor on the wall then climb up 5 pitches anchor again then repel to clean my gear but how do I get the top cam/nut back with the caribener the rope was connected to? I know how to get the rope back but what about those top caribiners after the reppel do I just have to replace it? Oh and this is a solo trad climb ...

[@BetaClimbers]

Brian Webb yeah this is a top rope solo sounds like your talking about lead soloing. You would need to be rappelling right off the belay chains to leave no gear behind then pull the rope with a tag line.

[@officerwebb620]

@@BetaClimbers Yeah but this is also a trad climb so the rock has no bolted mounts for anchoring, and that's just the rope what about the quickdraw and cam/nut/hex?

[@BetaClimbers]

Brian Webb woah..then your only option is up and out or back clean which would just be like leading but in reverse. Lead rope soloist first ascend like one would normally then rappels and cleans then ascends the rope again. Wash rinse repeat. The only option if there are no bolted anchors would be to top out or basically lead in reverse and down climb.

[@nicolasaguilar4936]

Could you use the same gear for lead soloing?

[@BetaClimbers]

Nicolas Aguilar no lead fall are a whole other story.

[@TheGbarnsleyboy]

The shunt is spring loaded

[@BetaClimbers]

Oh great now I’m going to have to buy it! Lol 😂 One day I think I’m going to make another more episode like this about top rope soloing but I’ll go fully by the book and use two ropes etc.

[@lucaslothbrook5388]

Shunt + micro Trax = safe af

[@danielcgallagher]

Is there a safety difference between using a single line like shown here vs using one rope coming down on both sides? In either case, it seems that if the rope breaks or the anchor fails, you're done. But if you double up, I guess you're putting half the load on either side of the rope thereby decreasing the chance of the rope breaking. My guess is that that would be the technically safer option, but given what ropes are rated for and how little you'd actually be falling on them, the improvement on safety seems practically negligible. Any other opinions there?

[@BetaClimbers]

Correct if your anchor is bomber you shouldn’t need two Separate ropes and anchors. If you half the rope and use two sides you add redundancy which is always a nice thing. I have a video called super safe and a video where I use a Taz. If you check those out I answer some of those questions.

[@danielcgallagher]

@@BetaClimbers Thanks, I'll check them out! Keep up the great content!

[@laszlopricz175]

It seems the shunt ran it's course in history . Other gears are more able and advanced to do the job. Shunts were the gears of our grandfathers...no offence.

[@swalls48]

These devices may tend very well and smooth but I feel more comfortable on a prusik. Be careful with mechanical climbing devices.... They can do weird things in specific conditions. A micro pulley and a prusik are cheaper and safer. I like to try to always keep a set on my saddle while tree climbing.

[@chrismoon1584]

You might like an "eye to eye" prusick cord. We use them in the tree care industry for progress capture.

[@swalls48]

@@chrismoon1584 I use a 28" HRC prusik loop sewn by @Height.

[@daytonm6809]

Howd you get down at 7 min lol. Grigri in your back pocket?

[@BetaClimbers]

Dayton M lol tricks of the trade haha prob just did a pull-up 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@daytonm6809]

@@BetaClimbers with one arm? While trying to unclip?! I climb and dont see it lol

[@BetaClimbers]

I can do a few one arm pull ups in a row so I know I can pull it off. But if there wasn’t a beam over my head and I had to pull on the rope I would have attached a grigri like you said underneath the gear. Then stood on a prusik or ascender with loop then unclipped.

[@coccodrillo1978]

One thing, probably already said many times but who cares I do repeat it here it will increase your traffic :) IS THAT: never build redundancy using the same gear twice (microtraxion x2). also, two ropes are better than one. Am i right? Have I learnt the lesson? :))

[@julespivet9996]

Try TAZ LOV2, you'll love it

[@BetaClimbers]

Jules Pivet just watching some videos on that Super interesting I’ll have to order one thanks for that!

[@FlyfishermanMike]

@Sma 556 That's a Petzl basic knockoff. Use the real thing!

[@troythompson2798]

rope wrench, rope runner, etc

[@44Paulbowman]

I'm a bit confused..why are you using rope grabs and pulleys that are not designed for or sold as ascenders? or back ups.

[@BetaClimbers]

paul bowman some times a wrench 🔧 needs to be a hammer 🔨 Jk lol I think you are referring to the micros. They glide up the rope better than anything on the market in my experience. Rope ascenders tend to bind or cam. Especially if there is no rope weight.

[@44Paulbowman]

@@BetaClimbers Gotcha. Being on the rope access side, I'm so stuck on following the rules.

[@44Paulbowman]

@@BetaClimbers Gotcha. Being on the rope access side, I'm so stuck on following the rules.

[@BetaClimbers]

paul bowman yeah I know what you mean after months of being on 2 ropes getting on one feels naughty lol 😂

[@44Paulbowman]

@@BetaClimbers you're absolutely right.

[@Theaddekalk]

at least you had a blue t-shirt this time

[@BetaClimbers]

Theaddekalk safe to say your favorite color is blue lol 😂

[@Theaddekalk]

@@BetaClimbers amen brother

[@imakevideos5377]

Hey why don't you use prussiks/percells to stand up on the rope? They are very very safe and much lighter than the dumar

[@justinzaff]

I'm new to climbing but why is there no mention of a Zig Zag and Chicane ? The ZZ acts like a mechanical prusik , it grabs instantly and wont damage your rope like a toothed device . Under load it will still go down if you press the top link , you dont need to unload your body weight for it to descend . To me at least all these other devices are cheaper versions but its your life . They do less in comparison except the ZZ is not midline attachable .

[@BetaClimbers]

Justin Zaff I haven’t had any experience with it but I have looked into a couple “tree products” I’m hoping to get my hands on soon!

[@justinzaff]

@@BetaClimbers Ahh so the gear you mention is part of the rock climbing worlds kit I guess . Yeh tree climbing gear is awesome . Thats the part i dont understand , why rock climbers dont use it i guess. Ive also used a Petzl Id descender and that has a safety catch that engages if you slip or rappel too fast and its awesome.

[@BetaClimbers]

Justin Zaff that’s always something I have wondered as well my theory is climbers in general try to keep things ask cheap as possible because it is a recreational sport for most. Work type gear is usually a bit more pricey. But it’s a catch 22 because climbing gear isn’t cheap anyway. Think it also comes down to weight the less gear the better so if you can make something like a grigri do multiple jobs then that is lighter then having individual tools. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@justinzaff]

@@BetaClimbers that answers my question i had in my head that rock climbers go for cheaper gear . I'm a rookie but even i can see so clearly that is crazy . For the sake of money they don't have the best gear and put themselves at risk . I'm interested to hear your thoughts after using a Zig Zag and Chicane .

[@redanansi]

Warning to anyone using a shunt. It should only be used if you will be taking a controlled fall, there have been multiple live changing accidents due to a failure point in the shunt. Basically if you fall at an awkward angle that can cause the rope to actually pull out of the shunt completly and no back up knot will save you. Anyone using a shunt please watch this video so you know how it can fail: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpmYhn2Eq9d_ja8&feature=emb_logo

[@FlyfishermanMike]

Could you recommend a rope specifically for top rope solo?

[@thetominator917]

This comment scares me. Mostly because this question raises more than one for me. There really isn't a specific rope to be used for top-rope soloing. Any dynamic climbing rope will do. I would gladly recommend one to you. However, before I can do that, I need to know if you are an experienced climber or if this is your "entry point" in climbing. Asking what kind of rope is good for top-rope soloing strikes me as something a beginner climber would ask. And my initial, knee-jerk response is: Hey buddy! You really should gather some experience climbing AND belaying with a partner in both top-rope and lead climbing. I climbed for about a year (in a gym and outdoors with friends) before I even considered buying a rope. You need someone there to guide you. But more importantly than that, you need someone to DOUBLE-CHECK you and make sure you don't kill yourself.

[@FlyfishermanMike]

@@thetominator917 Ah yes, accept my humble offering to please the safety gods. I should have been more specific, my bad. I should have asked what rope he likes for top rope solo and what characteristics he looks for. I recently got back into climbing and my ropes all need retiring. While some things have changed during my hiatus I see the safety patrol is still out in force. I've come back to find ropes are skinnier and more specialized than before, hence my question. While you could TRS on just about any single rope there are better choices than others. Dynamic vs static both have their merits. I prefer a dynamic that can be used for other purposes and I have little use for a static otherwise. In the past I liked to TRS on a 10.5 Edelweiss as their sheaths are extra burly, didn't fuzz and my preferred devices played well together. With a family these days I don't have the time or money to experiment with multiple ropes. Good thing I can ask for opinions online! I'm getting back into things, replacing old gear and refreshing my skills. I'm not new to climbing or TRS. My kids aren't old enough to belay me and I don't always have time to deal with a partner hence TRS. Although it isn't very current I can forward you my climbing resume compete with partner references and on sight attempts. In all seriousness I'd appreciate your recommendation. Picking a rope used to be easy. Same with belay devices. Every company has a multitude of belay devices! When did that happen?!

[@ClimbingEasy]

@@FlyfishermanMike static rope. I understand that other response 100%. But I think you should be experienced before any soloing. But to satisfy you're question, a static rope, 9mm-10mm will be the best bet. The lack of rope stretch will give any device a better and quicker engagement. Also since you are not lead climbing, you don't need to soften any large fall. This will also give you a option for ropes when heading to the crag, less wear on the dynamic rope, and if the microtrax teeth bite on the rope; you still a have good dynamic rope climb with. Please be extremely safe out there, back up your system and any soloing is exponentially more dangerous than climbing with a partner. This advice is for informational purposes only and everyone takes responsibility into their own hands for their own lives. I am not responsible nor is anyone else including betaclimber responsible for an individual's unsafe and stupid actions. Climbing is INHERENTLY dangerous, and gravity works. Never trust your life to information from the internet.

[@evanbarnes9984]

I use a toothed ascender with a chest harness to keep it high as my primary, with a grigri below that as my backup and rap device. I love that setup. It's quick to switch to rap, you're always connected to the rope, and the chest harness ensures that the two devices can never interfere with each other. You can do that with both single and doubled ropes, too!

[@MSchon-qf3fl]

You’re not using the rescuecender properly. It needs a Torse to keep it in the proper position. This will greatly reduce the slide.

[@BetaClimbers]

I’ll look into that thanks!

[@billhickswasgreat3421]

This look like a Petzl ASAP job.

[@felicecavallotti1176]

Why not just a single grigri? I saw you propose this solution on a previous video and now you dont mention it. So I imagine that for safety reason you discard it. Can i know why? thanks

[@BetaClimbers]

I got a lot of complaints that it was too risky for some ppls taste so I tried to throw some more ideas out there. There is an episode I made called super safe rope solo, I think that the best method for the more safety minded.

[@felicecavallotti1176]

@@BetaClimbers I know, people get really brave criticizing on internet.. but I think it was more because the single anchor you used. Personally I was more skeptic about the static rope because with just one climber the system is already lousing elasticity.. anyway.. the discussion about the risk is never ending. climbing it means to assume a risk. what i would like to avoid it is to make stupid mistakes. that s why my question about the grigri. because i can not find something technically wrong in using it. but it is strange that i can not find any video about solo top rope suggesting it. thank you for your answer.

[@BetaClimbers]

Felice Cavallotti yeah any time! Like I probably said in the video I try an use a solid tree nothing small or dead. I mean this probably goes back to my arborists days but I’m completely comfortable using one healthy tree. Pulling a tree out by a stump, for let’s say like a 10 inch diameter tree is going to probably be on the high end of 20,000lbs so your rope would snap before u pulled that tree out. Of corse it has to be well planted and alive. What is more risky about this setup is making sure your one line is not going back and forth over a sharp edge especially sense we are using one line here, that is what I’d say is the weakest link.

[@mattssegrub]

If you use the Rescucender you need a chest harness or sling attached which stops it sliding down the rope. I like the Rescuecender as the primary with the Microtraxion as the backup, this way you don't run the risk of your Microtraxion de-sheathing your rope. Not sure you should be providing information to others if you aren't 100% compitent with the systems yourself.

[@jasoneaton4520]

I solo climb with a shunt..it's fine.

[@BetaClimbers]

Jason Eaton yeah I haven’t yet tried that one out, everyone seems to like it. I’ll have to get it and give it a try. 🤙🏻

[@jasoneaton4520]

Ok cool. I got some slack on a french forum about it, they said it's very dangerous. I said why? If l fall more than 2 meters, will it snap? One said no, but you might accidentally press on it...l said, that's impossible! And it really is impossible...especially while falling, they're overly cautious to the point of irrationality.

[@BetaClimbers]

@@jasoneaton4520 Yeah usually that is the case lol cant blame them to much though its better to be over cautious some times and plus they are french jk lol I don't have any experience with the shunt but ill get one and find out if I can make it fail I guess. The only thing I noticed with similar shunt like tools is they slip before they grip so that might scare some one. But as long as there is some kind of back up its gotta be bomber. Like I said in on other videos, Rope Solo falls aren't whippers anyway, they are like a transfer of weight. (in most cases)

[@jasoneaton4520]

Yeah the french on the internet seem very annoying 😂 Im gonna try to fall from a few meters off the ground and see how it reacts. I climb slab mostly anyway and it's easy, l don't think l would ever fall. Just need the rope to abseil back down. Im thinking of spending money on a proper grigri, but l don't think l need to.

[@jesussicairos6238]

Love the videos but a lingo ep would make it faster to understand

[@BetaClimbers]

Thanks! What is a "lingo ep"?

[@joshuaperry2388]

@@BetaClimbers an episode about lingo?

[@adammcneill8637]

rescuescender would freak me out hence why i use the shunt which does not slide down the rope, sounds like he didnt do much research when he bought his rescuscender

[@craydimpel9289]

Ropeman 1 or 2

[@elvinchateauvert]

just tie a french prussik/ one way prussik then you wouldn't have to deal with it binding on the shunt

[@iany8468]

Can’t you just you the GriGri instead of the micro traction? They basically work the same way but the GriGri can decend.

[@BetaClimbers]

Yeah you can but the problem is, it brings up the rope and pulls you down. It doesn’t slide up the rope like a trax does.

[@yosemiteshawnsnyder4450]

Great video kiddo

[@WillTheFrozen]

grigri with slipknots IS the best way to top rope solo. toothed ascenders are trash and will destroy your rope.

[@BetaClimbers]

Eh I humble disagree lol, the Taz does a better job, the grigri has to be tended to way to often. Some times you have to climb 5 feet or more about the grigri till you have a hand that can tend to it. So you are looking at a actual fall. Compared to somthing that will glide up the rope and you can just sit onto it. I have maybe 3 or 4 of these solo videos, maybe check my “super safe method.”

[@ClimbingEasy]

I know the trax is not liked because of the teeth. Question: what about SLIGHTLY rounding out the teeth on the trax? Wouldn't it still have enough drag to catch and pinch on the rope without chewing up the ropes jacket. Any mods is super controversial and dangerous. And anyone takes their own life in their own hands. You have zero liability for anyones stupidly.

[@BetaClimbers]

There are tests on KZbin of big trax falls with no damage done to the rope. But now I use a Taz.

[@jenyates3033]

Oh my. Why oh why do people make videos to 'teach' climbing skills using techniques that are not gold standard? You have some experience, but not enough to be teaching this to other people. You are totally overlooking the inherent risks is using the gear in the way you are. You are not implementing a safe, redundant backup system. Basically you are making a dangerous genre of climbing even more dangerous! You inexperience shows in so many places, EG 9.10 discussing using a girth hitch after you'd wrapped the prussic - this type of thing should be second nature driven by muscle memory. Please please work on your techniques and practice them before trying to teach others.

[@BetaClimbers]

Thanks for the comment check out my “super safe” video let me know what you think there as well!

[@hediho-ry6rs]

Dammit jumar is the name of a acender manufacturing company you call a acender a jumar to a caver yer gonna get a talkin to. Kids these days 🙄

[@jorgebras3697]

you should really stop doing this kind of videos. If you don’t know what you are doing don’t show this to people giving them bad ideas and instructions. I’m not gonna comment your systems and teach you, it’s not the place forr that, please you ahead and seek proper education.

[@chrismoon1584]

Dude you have a lot to learn before you start teaching anything about life support. Please think about what you're putting into the world.