Top Ten Dark Forms

[@alvaroperez2349]

Having a super form that is powered by the darkness is a rare species, sometimes it can stronger then a regular super form, but usually comes at a terrible cost.

[@imisertils7783]

That's stupid why would anyone want to use this! Unless your foolish or stupid or didn't read books or the bible!

[@starmaker75]

Pro: *you have a powerful form* Con: *it will be uncontrollable* Also pro: *You will look good in black/goth*

[@centurynerdbr]

Does this counts as a boss list or another type of list?

[@DarkStarxLiveWire]

Pretty much explains the Anti form that Sora goes into in Kingdom Hearts 2 in a way

[@adamvancleave9200]

Even rarer when that dark form EATS the powers of darkness.

[@shadowvincent8718]

Im gonna say my favorite Dark form is definetly the Anti/Rage form from the Kingdom Hearts series. There is just something that is just so badass about Sora becoming basically a Heartless and doing all these crazy aggresive attacks and movements.

[@starmaker75]

I like how by kingdom hearts 3, sora's anti/rage form is just the berserk power up and sora is going RIP AND TEAR!.

[@lightyoshiman]

it shows for as kind of a kid sora is he isn't without his own inner demons also love how its also meant to be a punishment for the player for relying too much on the broken limit forms

[@CyColt]

Top ten Evil Doppelgangers sounds like a list that has yet to happen. Also, does this mean Wambu is Josh's darkside?

[@michaeliv284]

Canon!

[@jonathanbarr9764]

I'd like to see that list.

[@Mephiles-1]

He does have a liking to FREEZING ENEMIES

[@WhiteDarkness3113]

I hope to see Dark Pit and Metal Sonic on the list.

[@OmnicidalClown1992]

Here's an idea for a Halloween-Themed Boss Countdown. Top 10 Survival Bosses. Bosses that you can't win in a head-on style of fighting. All you can do is run, hide, and hope that whatever is stalking you either gives up, or get killed. Of course, there are cases where you, the player, will have the opportunity to fight back once you have the means to kill the stalker, but until you do, all you can do is run and hide.

[@shadowlinkbds]

Sounds like a perfect list for something like the Xenomorph, Nemesis, and Scarecrow.

[@OmnicidalClown1992]

@@shadowlinkbds Or the Dahaka, any of the Variants from Outlast, (Mainly Chris Walker,) the SA-X and/or E.M.M.I., and a few others.

[@MaestellaCandles]

Hibari Sakuya from Fatal Frame 4 would be good pick for that since you spend most of the game running from her before the final showdown

[@thetalltitan2235]

Oh I’m looking directly at the smartest boss ever (which I myself suggested to Josh years ago), Alien: Isolation’s Xenomorph!

[@Hilversumborn]

@@shadowlinkbdsAlso Mr. X (Resident Evil 2 Remake)

[@NotsilYmerej]

Silly Josh, evil fire is purple, or has black in it. Green fire is magical fire (or a specific metal being burned).

[@starmaker75]

Dark/shadow forms: half the time it a dramtic way for character's struggle/psychoogic. The other half because the author/creator wanted to see if the characters can pull the all black/goth look

[@TheLunarLegend]

I like the theory that rage for is anti form after sora accepts the darkness in himself. Anti form was wild and uncontrollable because he was fighting it, whereas rage form is more controlled because he's embracing it.

[@zachbahamutson5477]

The thing about Master Xehanort is that he's from the same Generations keyblade wielders as Master Eraqus where they were taught that Darkness and anything connected to it where to be considered evil by default. And you know how most old people are they didn't to be set in their ways and very stubborn to the point that they refuse to learn anything new.

[@Drums_of_Liberation]

Except Xehanort did learn. He was right that darkness couldn't be destroyed but can only be channeled. Whether he realizes it or not, he paved the way for darkness being used as a force for good

[@insecdroid]

I’d also like to include Fray/Esteem from FFXIV. He/She is the embodiment of the Warrior of Light’s trauma and inner thoughts.

[@JosephHeiskell]

I agree, Fray was my first thought

[@simonbriggs203]

(before the premiere) The fact that Dark Spyro turns the most formidable bosses in the Eternal Night into a joke makes me wonder how hard Gauls second phase would have been without Dark Aether. Hoping it goes on the list. (After the premiere) Not even a cameo? Oh well. some day. until then, Here's hoping for Gaunter O'Dimm in the devils bosses list.

[@tootbender6935]

I was also kinda hoping for an Onimusha cameo.

[@greatsageclok-roo9013]

Agreed. Did Josh just forget about him?

[@usvidragonslayer3091]

Nice video. Dark forms, in my opinion, are more of a curse than a blessing bc to achive it you must pay a terrible cost such as selling your soul, succumbing to despair and so on.

[@KororaPenguin]

I theorize that Princess Celestia had safety protocols put in place to ensure that if she started going Daybreaker she would be incapacitated and a Unichain would be placed over her horn until such time as qualified psychiatrists declared it safe to remove.

[@andrewevers2420]

To defend Xehanort's plan, he was likely not worried about those who could control their Darkness but rather the larger number of those who couldn't and the amount of Darkness that could come about from them. Not to mention the Heartless that could be born from strong hearts that succumb to Darkness.

[@lShadow426l]

They should have kept his reasonings from bbs where he just wants to see what kingdom hearts does, there is really no reason for to somehow know what it does to begin with and the multi-phase fight could have ended with him going "oh well checkmate I lost" leaving everyone but eraquus pissed at him. Why did he kill Kairi if he was going to reset everything? he knows he didn't need to, Sora was already willing to fight him and was dumb enough to do so, Xehanort knew that already. The fact he was "doing it for the right reasons" shows how pointless it was for him to kill someone, it would have made more since from Xigbar to come out of nowhere to do it, since he's MoMs apprentice and also put Xehanort on that path to begin with.

[@Seeker55]

Sephiroth; give in to the dark. Sora; Alright bro, it's your funeral.

[@darienb1127]

Something about Rage Form in KH3: Numora has officially stated that Rage Form is what happens when Sora succumbes to his anger. Choosing to use Rage Form is choosing to let anger and hatred consume you.

[@kaneobscurum6016]

To be fair, it's hard to put 100% stock in what Nomura says. The man said for years after BBS's launch that Roxas looking identical to Ventus had absolutely nothing to do with Ventus's heart being housed in Sora for so long and it really was just "I really like this character design." only for that to get Ret-conned in KH3 to line up with what literally every fan who played KH2 and BBS thought was blatantly obvious.

[@davidtimmer596]

There's also Oblivion with Dark Form

[@WhiteFangofWar]

The Dark Prince (Rick Miller) from Prince of Persia: Two Thrones is my favorite dark form for many reasons. To start, it's very meta, being the manifestation of a dark shift in the Prince's character from the previous game that many players weren't thrilled by at the time, turning a lighthearted swashbuckling adventurer into an broody cuss-happy antihero. Sort of like Jak. Thus you want the Prince to triumph over his dark half. But it's not that easy, as he's dangerously charming and good at framing selfish actions as noble, trying to win the Prince over to his way of thinking, driving him to reject the princess Farah for being 'too weak'. Nowadays he'd probably accuse the Prince of being a 'simp' for Farah. He gives good advice sometimes and his transformation does make things easier for the Prince, allowing him to massacre through hordes of monsters he would have taken ages to deal with normally (a complaint about the previous two games was that enemies had too much health). Yet this comes with corresponding price- a gradual loss of your health that only stops when you kill enemies and drain their sand, resulting in a shift in gameplay priorities illustrating the difference between them: With the Prince you try to avoid combat, or speed-kill as many as you can beforehand. With DP you are forever searching for more enemies- more *victims*- to appease that bloodlust or... sandlust? Either way, not exactly the kind of mindset you want sitting atop the throne of the kingdom of Babylon, is it?

[@shadowlinkbds]

Would have liked a proper fight with the dark prince during the endgame. That was his only flaw but everything else about him was perfect.

[@WhiteFangofWar]

@@shadowlinkbdsTrue, but we did just come off a lengthy boss battle with the Vizier. A more cerebral challenge is fitting, since in the original Prince of Persia there was also mirror image of the Prince you could not fight either, as killing it would also kill you.

[@LightbladeRiulo]

Tired of being nice? Don’t you just wanna go full *DARKNESS?!*

[@gimmeyourrights8292]

On the subject of dark forms, you ever thought of making an evil or shadow clones list? I'd like to see you talk about Dark Pit, Lillith from Darkstalkers, or Lara Croft's doppelganger from Angel of Darkness.

[@astralguardian5930]

That'd be more in line with the "dark doppelgangers" Josh was discounting for this list.

[@kingmagnus4009]

I think I realized it. Josh’s Dark Form, what he sees as the opposite of himself… *Demyx*

[@revaslatts4301]

I can't tell if that's a reference or a joke. Either way, it kinda makes sense.

[@asmodeus58XX]

Actually, the concept of good fire (born from passion and lust for life) and evil fire (born from untamed fury and devotion to the devil) could be fun. Heck, I hope you watch Fire Force. It runs the gamut of what to do with your favorite element, story wise and combat wise.

[@e1iteyoshi998]

One dark form i think goes underappreciated is Dark Sonic. True it's not really canon and only showed up in the Sonic X anime but the fact that the chaos emeralds negative energy can have an effect that great on beings like Chaos and Sonic makes the lore of the emeralds a bit more interesting than people referring to them as rip offs of the Dragonballs even they don't really share any similarities other than their wish granting powers.

[@kingbash6466]

I thought Dark Jak and the Anti-forms were the coolest things ever, and thanks to them plus Naruto's Cloaked and Ichigo's Hollow forms were probably the reason why I have a huge soft spot for the "super-powered dark form" trope.

[@averyseldin8485]

Nega Shantae should have at least been an honorable mention considering the impact she left on the series-Shantae spends a FULL GAME without her magic because she knew letting her magic run around would be dangerous and later tries to erase her good side in Half Genie Hero.

[@IGSA101]

That's not Xehanort's plan though. He makes it pretty clear, he wants to get kingdom hearts so that he can restart the worlds and see how light could come from darkness, as well as create a new reality where they aren't separated and always at odds. In that way Riku and Sora are evidence that his vision can work, after all here are two people who can successfully use darkness as a tool to defend the light.

[@thaddeuspine]

So Josh's dark form would just be Schwarzenegger's Mr. Freeze. With a love for Okami. Gotcha.

[@silverflight01]

24:13 Man, they could've at least kept the "Siegfried and Nightmare become separate entities at some point" thing in this new timeline so they could still fight each other and we eventually find out who comes out on top in the end. Man, Soul Calibur V really threw a spanner in the works

[@TekkenGirl4Lyfe]

I actually want to work that into my idea for a Soul Calibur VIi...

[@Neutra77]

I'd honestly be interested in seeing a separate list for dark doppelgangers. Would be funny to count how many of them don't have Dark in the name.

[@developingopinionmedia2909]

If there's one game series I want revitalized it's the Jak and Daxter franchise. Lost Frontier wasn't terrible in my opinion but it may have been where the series began to jump the shark to varying degrees. I want to see more of how that world interacted with eco. If only to see Keira brought back to waifu-level design.

[@H0r53f7y]

Considering the number one choice, I'm surprised Android 21 didn't get at least an honorable mention (note: while Toriyama has discussed an interest in canonizing her somehow, she is for the time being a games exclusive character)

[@hissignaturestudios6869]

Considering? She appears in a cameo in Super Hero!!

[@Goleon]

@@hissignaturestudios6869- No. That’s the human who’s appearance she was modeled after. 21 herself still isn’t canon as there’s nothing to indicate that Gero built her.

[@hissignaturestudios6869]

@@Goleon Freakin' close enough!

[@kingmagnus4009]

2 Predictions: Rage Form from Kingdom Hearts 3 (While Josh seems to hate Anti Form from KH2, KH3’s Rage Form fixes issues with Anti.) Sonic’s Werehog Form from Sonic Unleashed

[@danielramsey6141]

I’m so Happy Seigfried and Nightmare won the top spot! It cannot be understated that before Anime like Naruto or even Bleach, and maybe even Dragon Ball! Seigfried turning into the Azure Clad Knight (well more Bloodstained Black in Soul Edge), Nightmare was meant to Exist in the Series! Giving the Cursed Sword its own agency! Of course that was already the case as a Manipulative weapon, but it did need a body! So the Fact that this Sword lead to the Single Greatest Foe to Ever Grace a Fighting game before the advent of Soulcalibur! Yeah, Nightmare is simply too great of a figure to pass up! The Time and effort put into making Me forget that Seigfried even existed before Soulcalibur 2 really hit me hard when I rediscovered the series! As this Evil has Slain more than likely 100,000 (if not more) from The Average soldier, to innocent people! Nightmare is Soul Edge’s desire for Unending death realized!

[@WrathNebula321]

Exactly, Nightmare has and always will be the darkest form of one's soul, no matter who it is. Nightmare will always appear even if Siegfried is freed of the cursed sword's influence, it will forever haunt Siegfried until either he returns to being Nightmare or if the cursed sword is destroyed for good, which is easier said than done.

[@regretgames5580]

Pretty sure Xehanort is worried about the great darkness or whatever it was called, which is flat out stated to be on a path of consuming all of existence

[@thomasthecoolkid7228]

I'm surprised nothing from a Compile Heart game showed up. Like, Blood Skelter (and Massacre, to the comparatively smaller extent that it counts as a dark form) is _awesome!_ The Blood Maidens react to Marchen blood in a very interesting way (likely because they themselves _are_ Marchen hybrids). Coming in contact with it makes a Blood Maiden's eyes turn pink and emit a pinkish glow, and when enough of it gets on her, she goes into a state dubbed "Massacre". She keeps the pink eyes, her hair turns white, she gets some neat pink energy accessories, she becomes a good bit stronger, and her personality shifts to be a bit more bloodthirsty (or _a lot_ more bloodthirsty sometimes, just look at how drastic it gets for Sleeping Beauty). And this is just _stage one._ There is actually a sort of second stage to this Massacre state, known as Blood Skelter, and it's... pretty nasty. See, a Blood Maiden accrues corruption within her through repeated contact with Marchen blood and high levels of mental stress. Once that goes too far, she goes into Blood Skelter, where the visual changes become _far_ more extreme (won't delve into how, IYKYK), her weapon also transforms (usually becoming fused to the Blood Maiden's body, sometimes it just disappears entirely like with Thumbelina), and she just _completely loses it._ A Blood Maiden that has fallen into Blood Skelter loses her mind and becomes driven solely by an instinct to kill, laughing her ass off as she is incapable of distinguishing friend from foe in her madness. The only thing capable of stopping this is the blood of a Blood Youth like Jack, which has unique properties that let it purge corruption from a Blood Maiden. Thing is, _holy balls are Blood Youths a rarity._ The only ones we know are Jack, and two characters that only have such abilities due to reasons directly tied to him. There's two more dark forms from Mary Skelter I wanna talk about, those being Ripper Jack (cuz apparently he's based on Jack the Ripper _as well as_ Jack and the Beanstalk) and the Mysterious Nightmare, but one has all of nothing on it and is a massive missed opportunity, and the other is intrinsically spoilery to talk about in this context.

[@uzumazin5099]

What I like about the Blood Skelter forms is how the fairy tale characters look like. Their Blood Skelter forms are based on their antagonists. Red Riding Hood’s (my fave Mary Skelter charcacter) Blood Skelter is based on the Big Bad Wolf (so she can tell Neptune to “pick it up” like how Dearth treats Puss In Boots). Sometimes, they’re based on their traits. The Little Mermaid’s Blood Skelter is her turning into a mermaid. Sometimes, they’re based on plot devices. For Snow White, her Blood Skelter is based on the poison apple she ate. I love the fairy tale references in their forms.

[@disneyboy3030]

Didn’t you know that the original Japanese translation of Xehanorts speech is actually about bringing balance to light and darkness just as you said. The english version mistranslates this a bit.

[@fictionfan0]

To me, Darkspine Sonic is one of the Blue Blur's most interesting forms largely because it's a dark form. Let me set the scene: Sonic and his new companion, Shahra, have spent the entire game collecting the Seven World Rings, physical manifestations of "the hearts of the stories of the Arabian Nights" (which the game literally takes place in). In the moments before the final boss... Well, let's just say a lot happens, and now Shahra is dead, the bad guy, Erazor Djinn, has the Rings, and their power has transformed him into an eldritch embodiment of the Arabian Nights itself, ready to remake the world in its image. And Sonic, despite his best efforts, was unable to prevent it. However, before the boss' transformation is complete, three of the Rings, specifically Rage, Sadness, and Hatred, fly out of it and bond to Sonic, triggering his darkest Super Form yet (not counting the anime). What's interesting about this form is that it's partially created from Sonic's own negative emotions--Rage at his inability to stop what had just happened; Sadness for the death of his friend; and Hatred for Erazor, the one at the center of everything in the game, especially the last few moments. And whereas other Super forms feel like they're tapping into a wellspring of power, Darkspine, while still possessing a lot of power, feels more like completely laying into the boss with righteous fury, reflecting its attacks back at it before closing the distance for a relentless pummeling. And all the while, Sonic sounds like he's perpetually angry, almost growling as he talks. I'm willing to bet that if Sonic wasn't such a good guy at heart, he might not have been able to undo the transformation as easily as he did.

[@shadowlinkbds]

If you only knew the power of these dark forms! Or perhaps you do since they usually end up being powerful and badass at times. An interesting way to start the month of October.

[@deathbykonami5487]

Trails into Reverie even gives us a glimpse of what happens if Rean's dark side wasn't resolved in Ishmelga-Rean.

[@thiffio9134]

A dark version of Josh who likes puns, Okami and has a deep obsession with ice? Can’t say I know anyone who does, but aside from ice, I do love to eat marine life and water. 👿

[@TheRevanchrist]

for a moment, I thought Siegfried/Nightmare wasn't going to make the list. But I guess I underestimated what could be considered the main poster face of the SoulCalibur series.

[@b3rz3rk3r9]

I've always liked the Dark Form idea in things like anime and games (if my name didn't already give that away.) It's like the inner Shadow lashing out from all the pain and misety you've faced, with the challenge to find balance and a way to Exercise, Temper and Control it. I do have my own favorite, though I don't think anything Berserk based could fit on this list' criteria. My number one in games, however, HAS to be Fierce Diety from Zelda. Now bare in mind: I am NOT a deeply-engrossed Zelda fan and, given the themes I'm about to list, not a Buddhist; Roman Catholic actually. But the idea of the Fierce Diety is what sunk me into Zelda pretty hard; even if I don't have the pc to emulate Majoras', nor do I have the money to actually play it (scarcity value, damn thee!) The idea that the mask of the Fierce Diety exists as the amalgamation of all the deceased's rage and desire for retribution amd destruction is insanely crazy to me. That all that hatred and anger of the dead could coalesce into some Link-shaped God of War is honestly terrifying, and opened up an interesting question to me: Why does it look like Link? What possibke reason could it be to take the form of this champion of good, especially since it's a creation of pure destruction? Well, the easy answer is that it can take the form of its wearer. But wjat if that wasn't the case? What if it's all that destructive rage of the damned souls _Combined_ with something within our titular hero? In seeking answers, I've geard theory after theory and only a small number of parts to each theory given seem plausible in one way or another. For example: there's a theory based on the udea that Link, like Zelda and Ganon, is a reincarnation of some Hyrulean God. This somewhat makes sense, as it'd be strange for some self-made guardian of Hylia and destroyer of Demise to not be made of the devine realm. Theoretically, it makes sense for it to be the case from a story point of view: a Warrior God brought about to save the Goddess of all that is good from the Demon God of Doom and Destruction. But that also begs why can Zelda and Ganon access their godly reincarnations themselves, but Link needs a mask or some other method of incarnation to gain this ancestral power? Then one theory led me to the Buddhist concept of _Kishin._ To explain it as best as I can, in Buddhism, there is The Buddha, the other Buddhas and the Boddhisatva underneath; almost similar in concept of Christ, The Apostles and the Saints from a Western point of view. In this system, it's believed that the buddhas can achieve a form where they change into some demonic creature born to destroy some great evil, known as _Kishin_ or the Fierce Dieties. A part of enlightenment, it's symbolic of how those who reach Enlightenment can harness true darkness to enact the greatest good; only achieving this when they free themselves of Earthly binds. My theory is that it's both in a sense. In a literary sense, the hero arises when evil is born. When the evil army marches, when the dragon burns fields from on-high, or the Demon breaks out from the mountain and fill the lands with despair and hatred, the hero arises to slay them and free the world. In some cases, these heroes are raised as such and filled with heroic vigor from how they were raised, or even from the strength Divine emboldening them to free His people. I theorize that Link IS the reincarnation of some Deity of Warriors or Justice, but the Deity itself only arises from the misery of its subjects; infusing Link with his power long restrained. The pain, sorrow, despair, lament and especially HATRED of the people, having the Divine Warrior break free in a righteous frenzy, but corrupted by the sheer amount of hatred that it begins to fight uncontrolled; driven wild with the magnitude of negativity.

[@Sovreign071]

I want to give an honerable mention to The Dark Prince from Prince of Persia: Two Thrones. It wouldn't be high on this list, or even on it maybe. The segments where you play him are scripted, rather than a voluntary powerup. But the way you defeat him is kinda poignant! The Prince, after a long battle of the mind, chooses to walk away and ignore him, leaving him screaming impotently in rage as you, the player, walk away from this boss fight.

[@BaxterAndLunala]

I was expecting Dark Samus to be on the list, but I guess evil doppelgangers not counting makes sense.

[@ryanphan6134]

Another honorable mention goes to Malzeno, but why Malzeno? Well, in the bonus update it was revealed that Malzeno has a variant called "Primordial Malzeno" aka the 'original' Malzeno that was not corrupted by the Qurio from the devil monster, Gaismagorm. It was revealed that the Malzeno that we killed was originally a Primordial Malzeno that once repelled Gaismagorm a hundred years ago before the Qurio infected it and it thus created a symbiosis with them, forcing the once Holy Knight into the Dark Dracula. In the same hunt against Primordial Malzeno, there are moments where it is constantly struggling to resist the qurio's power.

[@keeganguyer5237]

Couldn’t we get a tie with Shadow Mewtwo for #10?

[@AngelicSoulEntertainment]

I know one that should have been on the list Uzume Tennouboshi of the neptunia francise she had a darkerself i ist call her dark uzume but the character called her Kurome Ankokuboshi i think Kurome Ankokuboshi is a mouthfull😂 Mmm time to do this list but put some anime characters in too i know 2 that fit right in here maybe 3 buuuut its a bit of an odd ball move dont worry i wont do the same characters of the franchises that you used tho thanks for a vid idea and i leave your video in the descreption!

[@eclipseslsr8753]

I feel that given that we treat Dark Metaknight as a separate person, the same assumption can be made for the mirror version of Dedede.

[@kaneobscurum6016]

Small shoutout to Dark Spyro/Evil Cynder from The Legend of Spyro series. Only one of those is playable and even then only as bonus content for 100% in the second game, still left an impression on me as a teenager.

[@Legomicroman]

In one story of mine, the main character has actually TWO dark forms. to be exact: two halves of one character that become corrupted, the more they become seperated from each other. They both retain roughly the personality of the person, they were originally part of, as long as they stay together, even if they have seperate bodies. but the more distance is between them and the longer they stay apart, the more they deteriorate into monsters. one half is emotional and becomes volatile and incapable of coherent thoughts, because its overwhelmed by uncontrollable feelings and the logical half becomes ironically more animalistic and far more violent, because the logical half concludes that it should get rid of everything that MIGHT pose a danger, in the future, including its friends. it's basically a story about dealing with being a (in this case literally) broken person.

[@hermannandreaskran9392]

That sounds really interesting, but are we talking about physical distance or something more abstract like how closely their goals-align? With physical distance it is more a test of the splis’ durability and self-control. How long can the emotional part be stable or find healthy outlets for its rampant emotions. Can the logical side avoid justifying horrible actions in the name of self-preservation? If it’s based on goals then it tests more how the splits choose the interpret the information at hand. Take for example a scenario where the logical side finds out that there is a traitor among the team, can be from an ally or a foe, but hasn’t the opportunity to inform the emotional part. This leads to a rift between the two sides where the priority of logic is to smoke out the rat, while emotional wants to avoid splitting up the team. From there the splits would drift further apart until their disagreements can be solved by finding a common goal once more. Perhaps by being re-examining their shares past or be forced to make a decision neither of them ever expected to make. I’m just spitballing some ideas, but I hope that is an indication of how intriguing your character sounds. I wish you good luck with the story, whether it is finished or still a work in progress.

[@Legomicroman]

@@hermannandreaskran9392 well MOSTLY physical distance. however, at some point, both halfs have a fallout, which causes them to voluntarily distance themselves from each other. because, while they both retain similar personalities, as long as they're close, certain aspects are stronger on either one half. the emotional half is obviously more empathetic, while the logical half is more calculated and cold. And their different perspectives cause them to hate each other, when one of their friends succumbs to her own evil temptations. because the logical half wants to eliminate her now, after seeing what she has become, while the emotional half wants to help her to become good, again. (not telling anything else. would be a spoiler, otherwise.) and thank you!

[@juliagoodwin9510]

Ah, thanks for this list, Josh! Such a lovely birthday present...

[@עומרשרייבר-ל4ר]

A good dark form is always nice (aslong as its well executed that is). Also another good example for atleast honorable mantions is dark spyro from legend of spyro games, but then again it had that much screen time.

[@theloganator5738]

I would like to add Dark Megaman from the Megaman Battle Network series as an honorable mention. In Battle Network 4 Megaman was forced to use a dark chip to defeat Shade Man, and thus creating a dark soul within him and giving the player the option to battle with them, but the more you use them, the more darker and corrupted Megaman becomes. In Battle Network 5 it all comes together when Megaman is captured and has dark power placed inside him, making him evil and a boss to fight in order to turn him back to normal.

[@austinmorrison6953]

Takanuva: "But I'm not my "kind", not anymore. your shadow leeches saw to that. I'm half Toa of Light, half Toa of Shadow. This was what you wanted, wasn't it? Toa consumed by darkness, Toa not hampered by things like mercy or morality. Well, now you can choke on it."

[@kostalking9747]

What you said about rage form in antiform being both the same thing and not the same thing at the same time thank you for bringing that knowledge… to light.

[@starvoltnexus3139]

Why does he suck the more I think about this franchise Because he never should’ve been a sympathetic villain and Stayed an Evil asshole and I’m pretty sure he’s Throwing a temper tantrum because he’s not special and that was all lip service

[@jacobaltredes7384]

When Josh played off Shadow Lugia, I thought he was going to highlight Shadow Mewtwo.

[@princesspixel3151]

An answer for mine (Spoilers for Dragon Quest Builders 2) Malroth started off as this guy with amnesia, and also happened to bear the same name as one of the big bads from Dragon Quest 2, right? RIGHT???? Well, it turns out he was obviously the same Malroth, who was “reborn” as a human in Hargon’s illusionary world, but in order to return to his true form, the builder (you) have to create all kinds of things, bringing hope to everyone in the world… only so the actual Malroth’s awakening will begin and destroy everything. But there was a fatal flaw to Hargon’s plans… Malroth in his human form became best friends with the builder, and learned the importance of creation. When he was captured and forced to become his former self, the builder takes him down and not only brings him back to his senses, but also splitting Malroth into two separate versions, the big bad monster, and the good human. Then they both take down the big bad monster and turned the illusionary world real, and everyone lived happily ever after… the end! (What? You thought there was gonna be an unfortunate twist in the end afterwards?)

[@gingerkays7362]

I wonder, would Zanza from Xenoblade Chronicles 1 count as a dark form, or a doppelgänger? Due to… complicated circumstances, he could sorta count as either

[@FillmGeekOfDoom]

WTF? NO Dark Asura from Asura's Wrath?!? Cmon, Josh! That even had more story significance than Sora's Anti/Rage Forms!

[@wolfclaw719]

I know this one probably doesn't count but Dark Sonic from Sonic X always freaked me out; it was Sonic losing all hope and giving in to his rage when he believed his friends were killed and he was as strong if not Stronger then his super-form, he tore everything to shreds and basically only stopped because Eggman showed up and said 'You're better then this Sonic' Like that gave me CHILLS as a kid

[@yuseinarukami704]

now i wanna see a list of light isnt always good moments....

[@merchantziro4285]

Personally one my favorite dark forms comes from Mega Man X, namely Awakened Zero. I really like Awakened Zero because it truly feels like a major part of Zero's character arc, even if it only occurs in the bad ending of X5. In the scenario where the virus ridden Eurasia was unsuccessfully stopped, on top of the massive damage to the world. As a result it would reveal Zero who was infected by both the Colony Virus and the Sigma Virus in order to awaken him into becoming who he was always originally meant to be according to both Sigma and Wily. A Maverick on a completely different level with upgraded versions of his normal self's existing techniques, not to mention Genmu Zero being capable of oneshotting X if you take too long. And in canon, Zero ultimately got to confront that side of him in a way when he finally defeated Omega, who was piloting Zero's original body but upgraded to draw out it's full potential. Ultimately the true Zero proved that he was more than the bloodthirsty god of destruction Albert designed so long ago and chosing his own destiny to become a legendary hero, ultimately overcoming his past. Even for how briefly he shows up in a non-canon ending, it's still a major part of Zero's story and character regardless and I love it for that.

[@Lv27MarkerMan]

Dark Samus would not be a dark form, but Hyper Mode from Metroid Prime 3 definitely is. It results from the corruption by Dark Samus and using it grants the player great firepower plus semi-invulnerability to enemy attacks but at a cost to health, and if used too excessively Samus will lose herself like the other bounty hunters in the game.

[@pierre-mariecaulliez6285]

Josh mistakes dark form and anti-form... Ice wouldn't be his thing. However, the WARPFIRE of the intro was SPOT. ON ! Honorable mention : Dark Spyro. IDK why the Legends saga is so despised, there's a good story and characters in there... The interesting part about Dark Spyro : although it was triggered by exposure to dark energies, it's not gone, it never goes away ! Spyro has earned the ability to channel dark energies and can call upon them for a boost at any time of his choosing ! The only thing keeping him from going balistic is his willingness to stick to the RIGHT way, and endure the consequences instead of nuking his problems apart... and fun fact, Dark Spyro DOES never go away ! Every incarnation of Spyro since has had a reference or outright ability to turn dark ! It's here... waiting for its time...

[@Hilversumborn]

I didn't expect number 1 but he was a pleasant surprise.

[@kylestubbs8867]

4:19 I’m waiting for one game where it happens when you expect, but he breaks out of it from sheer willpower and tries going after the offending force on his own.

[@davidtimmer596]

The only death revival in Cold Steel that's acceptable is Millium, because Alisa's dad built another clone, and Millium herself is a homunculus.

[@davidtimmer596]

Least Trails is more consistent than Kingdom Hearts.

[@devonm042690]

Making Xehanort a 'sympathetic' villain ruined him. He was better when he was Keyblade Master Orochimaru.

[@jtanimeandnerd101]

If I can say something about Master Xehanort. Originally his motive for doing what he did in Kingdom Hearts was to create true balance between light and darkness. I don't know what was going through Nomura's mind by retconning that, especially when Marluxia mentioned this very motive in the Kingdom of Corona. I honestly blame Nomura, or whoever wrote that motive, because it ruined Master Xehanort's character at that moment.

[@Hilversumborn]

I'm convinced KH was written while being on drugs.

[@historian252]

Does it remove his character? In fact it actually continues off from what we know of the man. He is willing to use anyone & everything he votes across because he believes none of them are helping make the world better and uses this make his own new world. He says as much in Birth By Sleep wondering what the Keyblade War would bring about with Kingdom Hearts reemerging.

[@historian252]

Xehanort said he wanted to create balance but as shown by him he wants to destroy the world and bring about a new one. Ansem & Xemnas even highlight this with Ansem showing his outlook on the world and the people that they are filled with nothing but darkness while Xemnas shows Xehanort's nihilistic view on the world and hoe nothingness is key. He views himself as the only person who make the world better & he plans to do so by nuking everything & rebuilding it as he sees fit.

[@harrybechtle4333]

Pretty sure there was a translation error

[@historian252]

@@harrybechtle4333 Even with the translation error, the point still stands that Xehanort was still evil and that he saw himself as the only one that could fix the world.

[@gagejoseph91]

I'm surprised Omega Zero wasn't even an honorable mention considering the powerful thematic weight he has. Plus the fact that, in a way, Omega isn't an "alternate form", it is Zero's original self. Kind of. But the fact that Copy Zero kills Omega Zero thematically ties into Zero, thr full original, being created to destroy everything, and Copy Zero overcoming his origin. He kills his original self, metaphorically rejecting and burying his original mission. The theory that Weil is actually Wily deepens this since "Wily" resurrects the original "Zero" which is then overcome by the person Copy Zero became, only to further dive into this thematic character resolution to its logical conclusion at the end of MMZ4.

[@espurrseyes42]

No, Omega isn't Zero's original self. That's Awakened Zero from the bad end of X5. Omega is a creation of Dr. Weil's made using Zero's original body after he discarded it so researchers could study it to create a cure for the Maverick Virus. It's not a form or version of Zero, but a completely different robot on a programming level inside his old body. It'd fall under a Doppelganger, not a dark form.

[@dimensionduelist4149]

11:45 Anyone else getting Yugioh GX vibe with the Light of destruction and the gentle darkness

[@MegabyteRedSector]

1) ah yes... Xenogears.. the definition of "enjoy disc 1" 2) Kage? Wait, so Ryu pulled a Bison?!?!?!? but kept the light side instead of the dark? Does this mean he now has psychopower too? 3) What, no Dark Fallz? Literally the hellish entity of personified darkness itself who enters reality in the Phantasy Star RPGs by POSSESSING HOST AFTER HOST AFTER HOST?

[@uszerntlm9567]

Darkness should suffice your humanity and become something that not human. That was a demon is.

[@banterlegends5347]

I like the “Dark” Megaman from the BattleNet series. If you use too many Dark Chips eventually mega man’s sprite becomes his dark sprite. there are then moments in combat where he goes berserk and bounces around the field firing at will free from your control for a few seconds. It’s a nice touch from a game series that doesn’t get a lot of talk as far as I’ve seen.

[@maverickhunterstupidiocy7779]

I’m personally more fond of Beast Out Megaman myself

[@ethanrogers2932]

i am a little sad you didn't talk about fleetway sonic at all but i get that video games are your wheelhouse, however i do think dark spyro from the legend of spyro could have been at least a honerable mention

[@HylianWolfMage55]

"Likes puns, Okami and has a deep obsession with ice" So basically Wambo.

[@ShadowVaria]

Missed a beat by not having Xemnas saying "Inde-de-deed"

[@GoldLight73]

Shoutout to Shadow’s Hold Hikari from Octopath 2. It’s the one Latent Power in the game I actually feel kind of bad for using.

[@ClefairyRox]

I'm with you right there. With what we see "Hikari" do in the story, combined with Hikari's voice clips when you activate Shadow's Hold, I feel kinda guilty about making him use those attacks, even though they ARE powerful Spoilers ahead: Although it makes it all the more satisfying when his Latent Power changes to Light's Radiance once he finally confronts and defeats his dark half

[@GoldLight73]

@@ClefairyRox Oh yeah. It's so satisfying when Hikari's story ends and you get that as a replacement... Especially once you see what Mugen becomes. Hikari was MOMENTS away from suffering the same fate as his brother.

[@matthewhyman8795]

Behold! The Power of DARKNESS!!!!!!!!

[@silverflight01]

6:12 Honestly, for as little as we got of Mr L, _Super Paper Mario_ really made sure he was as memorable as possible

[@Chaos_Vergil]

I just finished watching this video, which was great, but it got me thinking about two different transformations and whether or not they're dark forms: Devil Trigger and Dragon Install. Devil Trigger is a form that Dante, Vergil, and Nero can take that powers them up with greater strength, speed, durability, and healing for a limited time. The form is literally bringing out their inner demons, but it's never really described to be necessarily evil. Dragon Install is a form that Sol Badguy can take on by releasing his inner Gear powers. He's faster, stronger, and WAY more deadly and destructive in this form, but it somewhat leaves him fatigued after putting back on his limiter. Now, this sounds like a generic super form, but Gears in the Guilty Gear series are organic superweapons that were mostly created for destruction and war and Sol was a man that was unwillingly turned into the first Gear. This procedure changed him forever and essentially turned him into a monster. Now the transformation isn't necessarily evil, but it does reflect an inner darkness inside of him. So, debate whether or not these two forms are dark forms. Say DT for Devil Trigger and DI for Dragon Install

[@jeremy1860]

A good start to October. Though I doubt it'll top your crowning Halloween achievement of listing the top villains songs from a few years back 😉

[@jaketaller8567]

My honorable mentions: Dark Spyro (Legend Of Spyro Series) Fun fact, in the Skylanders Netflix series, Dark Spyro is voiced by Dipper Pines himself, Jason Ritter. Evil Cole (Infamous) It’s funny how in PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale, his rival is Fat Princess whereas regular Cole’s rival is Raiden. Evil Cuphead And Vile Mugman (Cuphead) This is what happens if you decide to pick the bad ending and join the Devil. Genocide Frisk/Chara (Undertale) You killed every monster in the Underground. I hope you’re proud of yourself, ya murderer! Werehog Sonic (Sonic Unleashed) Love the design, not too thrilled about the gameplay.

[@davidtimmer596]

Because the writers didn't know what to do with Xehanort, and turned him into a creator's pet, instead of an intimidating, hammy villain we wanted to take down.

[@historian252]

Yet we do want to take Xehanort down and he is still an interesting villain. Nowhere is he made to be a creator's pet because in the end, Xehanort fails, and he never creates the world he wanted. Even at his strongest with the mightiest weapon in the world, he is simply defeated by a keyblade wielder and two non-keyblade wielders.

[@geekdaparaiba]

My opinions... 10 - Not bad for an spinoff-only character. 9 - Once again we have another Nintendo character. Cool. 8 - Called it! I know that he would show up after I’ve saw the name of the Top Ten. 7 - L of Loser. Sorry Luigi fanboys. 6 - Yay! I knew that he’ll show up as well! Evil Ryu is one of my favorite dark sides. 5 - Kingdom Hearts really takes the “Darkness” name too seriously... 4 - Sacrifice Rean... Didn’t see that coming. 3 - Another yay from fighting games! Getting ready for the next battle! 2 - Called another one! Jak and Daxter is a great memory of an distant past. 1 - Talk about unexpected. Soulcalibur is one good fighting game from Bandai Namco. (Orochi Iori as a honorable mention made me smile... Now for the Werehog’s abscence...)

[@pocketxyco2317]

Prediction: I assume Kingdom hearts or Persona will be in top 5 or 3

[@davidtimmer596]

Not Persona. Kingdom Hearts though, right on the money.

[@katherined]

I wish Johnny’s Awaker form from Shadow Hearts into the new world would’ve made the list.

[@masquerabe6692]

Ok I need clear up the Xehanort thing. Xehanort’s whole “darkness bad” plan, like a bunch of stuff in KH3, is a translation error. Where Eng Xehanort says he wants to make a world that is “pure and bright”, Jpn Xehanort describes it as “pure and white” like a blank white board, a clean slate. He doesn’t want a world of pure light, he wants a world not dominated by either force. The X-Blade is his means to create that world.

[@TopHatMacadamia]

I really liked Shadow Dedede and Mr L's inclusion on this list. I do have to say something about Mr L, since he technically comes back in the Final Boss to fuse with Dimentio and The Chaos Heart and become Super Dimentio, But it is only reference by name.

[@JusticeOutlaw]

Honourable Mention Black suit Spider Man i know Spider Man 2 is not out yet but you know the comics that Peter got the Symbiote he gone through more Violence and Edger eventually Peter get rid the Symbiote but Peter the experienced with the Symbiote it will leave an impact that he will never forget and hopefully Spider Man 2 will do the same thing to Peter when he got the suit

[@cinnamonsun7099]

Shadow Lugia needs to be in the mainline Pokémon games. Greevil could be in it too.

[@dr.crazystein9536]

Was there a Top 10 video that doesn't even involve Kingdom Hearts? Besides, I did heard that Lies of P is like if Pinocchio just snorted Bloodborne vibed cocaine

[@nova7931]

oh I can’t wait for odio lord of darkness to be on this list Edit: just to clarify I said this as a joke with how live a live has been on list like these such as od-10 for ai and both Oersted and Odio getting number 1 one fallen hero’s and demon bosses respectively

[@BlueCrimson10]

Not so much. Apparently Josh treated Odio as its own entity; otherwise it'd definitely have been on this list.

[@nova7931]

@@BlueCrimson10yeah I said this as a joke because there has been a good few times where some thing from live a live has been on the list and even been number one Orested and Odio being examples fun enough

[@fink_rat]

Anti Form is the embodiment of the chaos of the Wombo Combo, rage form is the embodiment of the rage of controller spiking

[@llmkursk8254]

AYO IS THAT FOOTAGE FROM JELLOAPOCALYPSE’S STREAM OF XD: GALE OF DARKNESS!? DOES JOSH KNOW ABOUT THE GOOD DEMON BOI!!!?

[@misterking8989]

11:32 now I'm wondering if sora is going to have a berserk form. A stronger and possibly more extreme form if he lost control

[@ShadowSuperWolf]

Have you ever done an ultimate/superform list? Good examples of what I mean are the Darksiders and Devil May Cry games.

[@erikstensaas1202]

Even this list won't convince me that Xehanort is a bad villain. He's not Palpatine, but he's nowhere near Dick Dastardly

[@bionuvanui3142]

Top 10 Doppelgängers? Plus Night Terror would be a what if nightmare fully consumed Siegfried.

[@centurynerdbr]

Does Dark Eve from Bayonetta 3 counts on this category?

[@ShirotoraGodsbane]

Fun fact, "Jin" translates most closely to "Compassion". Take from that what you will.